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Griefers, Stop moaning

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Robert De Lyse Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2015.08.11 11:17:01 - [1] - Quote It's dead simple really You whine and complain when empire war decs are discussed as possible nerfs, costs to rise etc and you come up with this: "Why should we be forced to PvP in low/null/wh's when we want to PvP in empire, we should be able to play EvE how we like" Okay sure, sandbox and all that, BUT: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. Stop being hypocrites. Griefers - Cowards who fly speed fit ships such as 10mn ab fit sivpuls with medium boosts, or gank certain systems with spys in each gate within a 1j radius, we had 7 war decs and we took a 30 man fleet, what did they all do? They ran to a station and hid. Smacked in local, in all there fancy t3's, they ran from a 30 man frig/dessy gang. Code - buncha noobs ganking barges and nearly causing a market crash, well done, well done "Griefers slam wow" - K sure, u don't play it for one reason, u cant go around destroying everyones stuff Buncha cowards, all of you.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 2424	Posted - 2015.08.11 11:28:18 - [2] - Quote Do go on. popcorn Also, things are made to be broken. It's kind of a fundamental bit of supply and demand. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 1320	Posted - 2015.08.11 11:31:47 - [3] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: It's dead simple really You whine and complain when empire war decs are discussed as possible nerfs, costs to rise etc and you come up with this: "Why should we be forced to PvP in low/null/wh's when we want to PvP in empire, we should be able to play EvE how we like" Okay sure, sandbox and all that, BUT: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. Stop being hypocrites. Griefers - Cowards who fly speed fit ships such as 10mn ab fit sivpuls with medium boosts, or gank certain systems with spys in each gate within a 1j radius, we had 7 war decs and we took a 30 man fleet, what did they all do? They ran to a station and hid. Smacked in local, in all there fancy t3's, they ran from a 30 man frig/dessy gang. Code - buncha noobs ganking barges and nearly causing a market crash, well done, well done "Griefers slam wow" - K sure, u don't play it for one reason, u cant go around destroying everyones stuff Buncha cowards, all of you. Eve is a PvP game at its core as I linked to you in another thread. This simple fact that this is how the game is designed is what gives other players the right for force you into PvP anywhere. If you think they are cowards and want to do something about it, your energies would be better spent in-game rather than whining on the forums. I hear that anti-ganking is still looking for help if you actually want to do something more than cry about those evil "griefers".
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2015.08.11 11:31:53 - [4] - Quote Which bit of it's a PvP game didn't you understand? Hmm, can only find sweet popcorn, prefer toffee popcorn myself.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 83	Posted - 2015.08.11 11:46:11 - [5] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. Nobody is stopping anyone doing missions, industrial or exploration. But as a PvP game they shouldn't expect to be able to do those professions risk free.
Odie McCracken Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.08.11 11:50:10 - [6] - Quote Griefing is a bannable offence in Eve. If someone if griefing file a petition with CCP.
Domino Vyse Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 276	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:00:26 - [7] - Quote Who got sand in your box?
Mortlake Devils Rejects 666 542	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:06:30 - [8] - Quote Christ, I just managed to yawn at both ends simultaneously!
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14061	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:14:55 - [9] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? It's called player freedom, look it up some time. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Anne Dieu-le-veut Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People 205	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:23:50 - [10] - Quote Less than week old NPC corp forum alt calling other people cowards...not sure if trolling or oblivious.

Odie McCracken Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:25:16 - [11] - Quote Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote: Less than week old NPC corp forum alt calling other people cowards...not sure if trolling or oblivious. Based on grammar and writing style, I vote trolling. Clearly a troll, but not a very bight one so it's entertaining :)
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24580	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:39:24 - [12] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: It's dead simple really You whine and complain when empire war decs are discussed as possible nerfs, costs to rise etc and you come up with this: "Why should we be forced to PvP in low/null/wh's when we want to PvP in empire, we should be able to play EvE how we like" Okay sure, sandbox and all that, BUT: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. What's good for the goose is also good for the gander. Some missioners, industrialists and explorers have been demanding that CCP nerf hisec aggression for years, the current situation is the result of that. What gives them the right to demand that CCP make others change their playstyles to suit them? The difference is that PvPer's are doing their own dirty work, the carebears are expecting CCP to do it for them. Quote: Stop being hypocrites. Griefers - Cowards who fly speed fit ships such as 10mn ab fit sivpuls with medium boosts, or gank certain systems with spys in each gate within a 1j radius, we had 7 war decs and we took a 30 man fleet, what did they all do? They ran to a station and hid. Smacked in local, in all there fancy t3's, they ran from a 30 man frig/dessy gang. What are they, cowards or griefers? BTW CCP don't tolerate griefing, their definition of griefer probably doesn't match yours though Quote: Code - buncha noobs ganking barges and nearly causing a market crash, well done, well done Citation needed Quote: "Griefers slam wow" - K sure, u don't play it for one reason, u cant go around destroying everyones stuff It's the lowest common denominator, as such it's going to get slammed. Quote: Buncha cowards, all of you. Would you say that to their faces or are you to cowardly to do so? TL;DR You should stick to stealing stuff from fools. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Valkin Mordirc 1361	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:40:08 - [13] - Quote Ladies and Gentlemen this man is here to take Veers place. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24580	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:53:39 - [14] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen this man is here to take Veers place. That's a huge pair of shoes to fill. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1341	Posted - 2015.08.11 12:57:36 - [15] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? It's called player freedom, look it up some time. its really one sided player freedom, just sayin is all EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14062	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:01:30 - [16] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? It's called player freedom, look it up some time. its really one sided player freedom, just sayin is all Not at all, they have the freedom to avoid it if they so choose. They do not have any right to demand that it cease, in any way. If they want that, they can go play Star Trek Online with the rest of the cowards. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kooshti Bargain Booze 28	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:01:40 - [17] - Quote why is this guy mad? was he violated in space?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24582	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:05:28 - [18] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? It's called player freedom, look it up some time. its really one sided player freedom, just sayin is all Not really, I do all of the carebear things and have zero problems with mission invaders or suicide gankers, mainly because I actively take steps to minimise their impact on my gameplay. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14062	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:07:59 - [19] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? It's called player freedom, look it up some time. its really one sided player freedom, just sayin is all Not really, I do all of the carebear things and have zero problems with mission invaders or suicide gankers, mainly because I actively take steps to minimise their impact on my gameplay. Precisely this. What carebears (as opposed to you, which I would call a PvE player. They don't get to be called players) want is to have the ability to NOT play the game even halfway correctly, while being completely immune to other people at the same time. That is contrary to player freedom, because what they want can only be achieved by a harsh curtailing of player freedom. And since EVE is pretty much defined and sold on player freedom, what they want is the death of the game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1341	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:09:17 - [20] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? It's called player freedom, look it up some time. its really one sided player freedom, just sayin is all Not at all, they have the freedom to avoid it if they so choose. They do not have any right to demand that it cease, in any way. If they want that, they can go play Star Trek Online with the rest of the cowards. I sit on the fence with both sides of this sort of thing, while you are having freedom to do what you want you are restricting the freedom of other to play your own game. yeah they can avoid it ofcourse but having to avoid something is not freedom to go where you want, but i only really look at this from wardec mechanics where they force people, and forcing something on someone is not freedom. but the rules allow it so why even bother arguing about it EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14062	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:12:53 - [21] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: I sit on the fence with both sides of this sort of thing, while you are having freedom to do what you want you are restricting the freedom of other to play your own game. That's why it's PvP. The better player wins in a contest of opposite intents. Since they are almost universally the inferior players, they hate that fact. That's why they argue to take the choice itself away from the other side. Quote: yeah they can avoid it ofcourse but having to avoid something is not freedom to go where you want Yes, it is. No one has the freedom to not have to defend themselves, however. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1341	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:17:09 - [22] - Quote i cant really argue much about it as i would shoot them too, but i dont think wardecs are really player freedom for both parties EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24583	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:18:30 - [23] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? It's called player freedom, look it up some time. its really one sided player freedom, just sayin is all Not at all, they have the freedom to avoid it if they so choose. They do not have any right to demand that it cease, in any way. If they want that, they can go play Star Trek Online with the rest of the cowards. I sit on the fence with both sides of this sort of thing, while you are having freedom to do what you want you are restricting the freedom of other to play your own game. yeah they can avoid it ofcourse but having to avoid something is not freedom to go where you want, but i only really look at this from wardec mechanics where they force people, and forcing something on someone is not freedom. but the rules allow it so why even bother arguing about it Avoiding being a victim in no way restricts what I do or where I go. I regularly haul through Uedama, I often mine in systems claimed by CODE.; still haven't exploded doing either. *touches wood, not that kind of wood you perverts Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1341	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:20:02 - [24] - Quote what i mean is wardeccing a corp and forcing them to stay in a station because thats all they feel they can do is not really player freedom, wardecs are removing freedom from a player to benefit another player. sorta thing EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Anne Dieu-le-veut Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People 205	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:26:08 - [25] - Quote If only you could drop corp, or drop and reform to avoid a war dec...
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14062	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:27:08 - [26] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: what i mean is wardeccing a corp and forcing them to stay in a station because thats all they feel they can do is not really player freedom, wardecs are removing freedom from a player to benefit another player. sorta thing They still have player freedom. They are choosing to stay in station all day, that's not something forced on them except by their own mindset. But they still have the choice, even if they made a bad decision. They have options, in fact they have lots of options, the game is quite literally obscene about that kind of thing. People who handcuff themselves should not reflect on the people playing the game correctly. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 84	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:35:05 - [27] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: I sit on the fence with both sides of this sort of thing, while you are having freedom to do what you want you are restricting the freedom of other to play your own game. yeah they can avoid it ofcourse but having to avoid something is not freedom to go where you want, but i only really look at this from wardec mechanics where they force people, and forcing something on someone is not freedom. but the rules allow it so why even bother arguing about it The fence tends to be uncomfortable, I prefer a chair myself. Way I see it, this game is a PvP game so you can choose what you want to do but you can't choose what you want others to do to you (as long as it's not actual griefing). I'll use WoW as an example only because of their different types of servers. PvP servers - PvE players play on these as well as PvP player as they like to look over their shoulders and feel there's actually a threat to them. PvE servers - as well as PvE players you get casual PvP players, the casual PvP players like to PvE and only PvP when they want to, via arenas and battlegrounds. EVE being a PvP game, it's not really a casual PvP game only way not to PvP is to try and avoid it.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 84	Posted - 2015.08.11 13:43:39 - [28] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: what i mean is wardeccing a corp and forcing them to stay in a station because thats all they feel they can do is not really player freedom, wardecs are removing freedom from a player to benefit another player. sorta thing Which is why a lot probably stay in NPC corps. If it wasn't for players choosing to suicide NPC corp. players they would be free from all PvP. I don't see the issue being the players so much but the way high-sec is set up, one of the reasons I don't intend to stay in high-sec. High-sec is kind of an odd place for a PvP game, but I guess it depends what CCP is really trying to do with it. Of which that I don't know.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 1485	Posted - 2015.08.11 14:16:47 - [29] - Quote Tried to read the OP, but almost drowned in his tears after only a few sentences. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1341	Posted - 2015.08.11 14:19:49 - [30] - Quote Avvy wrote: Lan Wang wrote: what i mean is wardeccing a corp and forcing them to stay in a station because thats all they feel they can do is not really player freedom, wardecs are removing freedom from a player to benefit another player. sorta thing Which is why a lot probably stay in NPC corps. If it wasn't for players choosing to suicide NPC corp. players they would be free from all combat PvP. I don't see the issue being the players so much but the way high-sec is set up, one of the reasons I don't intend to stay in high-sec. High-sec is kind of an odd place for a PvP game, but I guess it depends what CCP is really trying to do with it. Of which that I don't know. yeah and npc corps are another thing which need fixed, they are anti-social EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design

Globby Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE. 185	Posted - 2015.08.11 14:26:50 - [31] - Quote god forbid mission runners and highsec pvers have to actually interact with other players in an mmo
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 1325	Posted - 2015.08.11 14:33:36 - [32] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: yeah and npc corps are another thing which need fixed, they are anti-social Try to touch them and a swarm of space hermits comes out of the woodwork claiming they are perfect the way they are and demanding that they should never be forced to interact with other players. We always will need an NPC corp for the risk-averse, soloists, and people between corps, but perhaps new players could be better directed to player corps or special NPC training corps to help get them integrated into the game more efficiently. Being in a player corp signals you are trying to compete though. You are stating to New Eden that you are open for wardecs in exchange for planting your flag and the other benefits of being in a player corp. You always have the freedom to forgo those benefits and stay in, or return to the NPC corp. That is just how the game has been designed. Risk vs. reward.
Revis Owen Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 250	Posted - 2015.08.11 14:53:20 - [33] - Quote Everyone has equal opportunity to access and use all the tools available in-game. Why do the carebears ignore that wealth of opportunity and instead cry for CCP to make a theme-park just for them? Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2984	Posted - 2015.08.11 14:55:17 - [34] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: what i mean is wardeccing a corp and forcing them to stay in a station because thats all they feel they can do is not really player freedom, wardecs are removing freedom from a player to benefit another player. sorta thing A war declaration has exactly zero effect on the ability of players to do anything. You can still mine, run missions and incursions and transport goods in exactly the same way as you could while not at war. If players feel that because they are at war they can't undock that restriction is entirely self imposed and as such they can free themselves of it at any time if they so desire. The actual danger faced by people at war is incredibly variable based on who they are a war with, their proximity to that group and other variables, but essentially it just amounts to an increase in risk that needs to be accounted for and mitigated where possible. In situations where players will do nothing but sit docked while at war what is really happening is the player is placing the value of their virtual property above the value of their gameplay: "it's better to not play at all than it is to lose a ship" or corp/alliance leadership making similar decision on the behalf of its members. It's neither the war itself nor the aggressors who are responsible for them remaining docked, they have no control overy that. In fact they'd prefer a continuation of activity, generally speaking. It is all a matter of the attitude of the defenders and their willingness to respond to emergent situations in a way that provides them with gameplay. Is there a solution to that? I don't really know if it's actually a problem or even care for that matter. People are welcome to destroy their own game experience by sitting docked in a station for weeks at a time if they want, alternatively they can go join a different corp.
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 587	Posted - 2015.08.11 15:15:22 - [35] - Quote I find it remarkable that a corp thief has an argument against griefing. Honestly, I'll steal jet cans, bump your ship, loot your missions, and smack you in local. I always keep it polite but my objective is always to pick a fight... Sometimes someone gets mad. That's pretty much how fights get picked. You, however, use a much more insidious method: lying to people while developing relationships with them and then stealing the output of months of their time. I find your playstyle distasteful because you value isk (which isn't an especially meaningful substance) over relationships. I'm glad you are in the game because you are a threat to be considered, however I think you make every crime i've ever committed, ever war I've waged, and every noob I've blasted seem like a collection of kindnesses. When I get done killing someone's ship, he always knows that I picked a fight, he accepted a risk, and his decisions resulted in a degree of loss. We all know the first rule of Eve. When you get done they feel betrayal, insecurity with the social framework of eve, and quite frequently as though they're "starting over". For you to judge the traditional griefer for picking fights and hunting targets is the equivalent of Bernie Madoff judging a child for shoplifting. I think you're probably just the kind of person who doesn't value relationships, isn't sharp enough to master game mechanics, and lies to himself an awful lot. I am imagining that, no matter how hot you are, you don't make friends very well. I find your judgement of griefers meaningless and difficult to understand. You make us look like public servants.
Mortlake Devils Rejects 666 543	Posted - 2015.08.11 15:16:01 - [36] - Quote Globby wrote: god forbid mission runners and highsec pvers have to actually interact with other players in an mmo Agreed. It's like going to a bar on a Saturday night and bitching all evening aboout everyone drinking and the place being too crowded.
Globby Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE. 186	Posted - 2015.08.11 15:38:33 - [37] - Quote you should be able to declare war on individuals at the same rate as a corporation
Mag's the united 20031	Posted - 2015.08.11 15:45:37 - [38] - Quote OP is very angry and seems to be venting a lot. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1632	Posted - 2015.08.11 15:58:36 - [39] - Quote Kooshti wrote: why is this guy mad? was he violated in space? We made unwanted physical contact in his special place Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
Mag's the united 20032	Posted - 2015.08.11 16:02:31 - [40] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Kooshti wrote: why is this guy mad? was he violated in space? We made unwanted physical contact in his special place That and the fact that he used to be a really good looking guy IRL, but now not so much and he is old with moobs. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1633	Posted - 2015.08.11 16:08:08 - [41] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? It's called player freedom, look it up some time. its really one sided player freedom, just sayin is all Not at all, they have the freedom to avoid it if they so choose. They do not have any right to demand that it cease, in any way. If they want that, they can go play Star Trek Online with the rest of the cowards. I sit on the fence with both sides of this sort of thing, while you are having freedom to do what you want you are restricting the freedom of other to play your own game. yeah they can avoid it ofcourse but having to avoid something is not freedom to go where you want, but i only really look at this from wardec mechanics where they force people, and forcing something on someone is not freedom. but the rules allow it so why even bother arguing about it What is this fascination with freedom. Sandbox is not Do what ever you want your free You are entitled to your style of fun You can build how you like where you like Sandbox is Here is the sand. Here is the boundary of the world. Go play. Other kids are picking on me and stomping my sandcastle. Groups building the same goal build bigger and better castles Groups ganging up on others for their decorative things have the best castles Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
Mag's the united 20034	Posted - 2015.08.11 16:12:19 - [42] - Quote ^^ What Noragen Neirfallas said. Freedom is a two way street and sometimes the other players freedom, will impact on yours. It's up to you, how you lessen that impact. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1633	Posted - 2015.08.11 16:13:45 - [43] - Quote Mobadder Thworst wrote: I find it remarkable that a corp thief has an argument against griefing. Honestly, I'll steal jet cans, bump your ship, loot your missions, and smack you in local. I always keep it polite but my objective is always to pick a fight... Sometimes someone gets mad. That's pretty much how fights get picked. You, however, use a much more insidious method: lying to people while developing relationships with them and then stealing the output of months of their time. I find your playstyle distasteful because you value isk (which isn't an especially meaningful substance) over relationships. I'm glad you are in the game because you are a threat to be considered, however I think you make every crime i've ever committed, ever war I've waged, and every noob I've blasted seem like a collection of kindnesses. When I get done killing someone's ship, he always knows that I picked a fight, he accepted a risk, and his decisions resulted in a degree of loss. We all know the first rule of Eve. When you get done they feel betrayal, insecurity with the social framework of eve, and quite frequently as though they're "starting over". For you to judge the traditional griefer for picking fights and hunting targets is the equivalent of Bernie Madoff judging a child for shoplifting. I think you're probably just the kind of person who doesn't value relationships, isn't sharp enough to master game mechanics, and lies to himself an awful lot. I am imagining that, no matter how hot you are, you don't make friends very well. I find your judgement of griefers meaningless and difficult to understand. You make us look like public servants. Hold up mo. He isn't a corp thief yet. At a whopping 7 days old with no corp history I demand to know how he stole from an NPC corp... Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
admiral root Red Galaxy 2999	Posted - 2015.08.11 16:17:50 - [44] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? Guns. Lots and lots of guns, plus the willingness to use them. I should probably point out that nullsec and wormhole space work exactly the same way - welcome to Eve. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
Mortlake Devils Rejects 666 545	Posted - 2015.08.11 16:24:09 - [45] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Other kids are picking on me and stomping my sandcastle. Have you tried peeing in your own moat? It's funny to stand back and watch the kids that come to the beach after you stamping around in it. Also I can heartily recommend licking all the apples before you put them in the fruit bowl.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2021	Posted - 2015.08.11 17:15:53 - [46] - Quote Mortlake wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Other kids are picking on me and stomping my sandcastle. Have you tried peeing in your own moat? It's funny to stand back and watch the kids that come to the beach after you stamping around in it. If I get arrested after trying that at the beach, I am calling you for bail. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14072	Posted - 2015.08.11 17:22:17 - [47] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Mortlake wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Other kids are picking on me and stomping my sandcastle. Have you tried peeing in your own moat? It's funny to stand back and watch the kids that come to the beach after you stamping around in it. If I get arrested after trying that at the beach, I am calling you for bail. "Officer, someone in a videogame told me to do it!" And then they look up EVE Online, and you're in real trouble. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Cobbler Khan Shades of Chaos Gatekeepers Universe 66	Posted - 2015.08.11 17:37:03 - [48] - Quote I dont know why everyone is giving you a hard time, i 100% agree with this post There are a ton of things to do in eve. Industry, mining, pve, pve, salvaging, exploration. Eve isnt ONLY a pvp game. How do you get ships and modules? How do you make isk? How do you get components to build stuff? Just because a majority of players like to do pvp, doesnt make eve a "pvp only game you have to pvp or else" sure its the most popular thing to do, but there are other things to do in eve
Domino Vyse Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 279	Posted - 2015.08.11 17:41:11 - [49] - Quote Cobbler Khan wrote: I dont know why everyone is giving you a hard time, i 100% agree with this post There are a ton of things to do in eve. Industry, mining, pve, pve, salvaging, exploration. Eve isnt ONLY a pvp game. How do you get ships and modules? How do you make isk? How do you get components to build stuff? Just because a majority of players like to do pvp, doesnt make eve a "pvp only game you have to pvp or else" sure its the most popular thing to do, but there are other things to do in eve It isn't PVP only. But everything in Eve is either teaching you combat mechanics, ie missions, or exists to supply PVP losses.
admiral root Red Galaxy 3002	Posted - 2015.08.11 17:41:20 - [50] - Quote Cobbler Khan wrote: There are a ton of things to do in eve. Industry, mining, pve, pve, salvaging, exploration. Eve isnt ONLY a pvp game. How do you get ships and modules? How do you make isk? How do you get components to build stuff? All the things you mentioned are PvP in this game. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)

Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 590	Posted - 2015.08.11 17:49:58 - [51] - Quote admiral root wrote: Cobbler Khan wrote: There are a ton of things to do in eve. Industry, mining, pve, pve, salvaging, exploration. Eve isnt ONLY a pvp game. How do you get ships and modules? How do you make isk? How do you get components to build stuff? All the things you mentioned are PvP in this game. It's not really about PVE or pvp. Eve, at its heart, is a full ecosystem. Read what happens in an ecosystem if you have no more predators... Or if you have no more herbivores... The ecosystem needs both to survive. It is probably the closest a game has ever come to that... I'm sure there are gazelles in Africa who would love to "opt out" of interactions with lions... But the long term result of that is bad for the ecosystem. Lions need the ability to hunt. Gazelles need the ability to mine and build stuff. Neither can really exist without the other.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14074	Posted - 2015.08.11 17:56:11 - [52] - Quote Cobbler Khan wrote: I dont know why everyone is giving you a hard time, i 100% agree with this post There are a ton of things to do in eve. Industry, mining, pve, pve, salvaging, exploration. Eve isnt ONLY a pvp game. How do you get ships and modules? How do you make isk? How do you get components to build stuff? Just because a majority of players like to do pvp, doesnt make eve a "pvp only game you have to pvp or else" sure its the most popular thing to do, but there are other things to do in eve Literally all of those either are competitive themselves, or exist to facilitate and supply PvP interactions, or both. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2024	Posted - 2015.08.11 17:59:16 - [53] - Quote admiral root wrote: Cobbler Khan wrote: There are a ton of things to do in eve. Industry, mining, pve, pve, salvaging, exploration. Eve isnt ONLY a pvp game. How do you get ships and modules? How do you make isk? How do you get components to build stuff? All the things you mentioned are PvP in this game. One hundred, thousand, million percent this. Everything in EvE is a PvP activity. Running a mission? PvP. You've just injected ISK and LP into the game, impacting the market. Industry? PvP. You've just injected goods into the market, impacting prices. Mining? PvP. You're competing for limited resources. Salvaging? PvP. Anyone can salvage a wreck, you have to do it first. Exploration? PvP. Anyone can find a site and clear it, you have to do it first. Sometimes the most devastating PvP in the game doesn't involve shooting anyone.... Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2024	Posted - 2015.08.11 18:01:54 - [54] - Quote Also, and I'm amazed that nobody has brought this up yet, are we denizens of C&P so loud in bed that folks are really asking us to stop moaning? Damn, we must be doing something right.... Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Tengu Grib Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 1306	Posted - 2015.08.11 18:28:37 - [55] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Also, and I'm amazed that nobody has brought this up yet, are we denizens of C&P so loud in bed that folks are really asking us to stop moaning? Damn, we must be doing something right.... It was actually my first thought. If there's moaning there's fun being had. Fun is good, therefore moaning is good. Now rage crying, like the OP is doing, isn't good. That usually means someone has horribly misunderstood something that happened to them. Which as was mentioned, is truly astounding coming from someone who claims to be a corp thief. I say claims because he's too chicken to post on his main. Special thanks to Carlvagio for being a cool bro and financing fun activities. StonerPhReak> Being an adult sucks.
Major Goob Light Adama 13	Posted - 2015.08.11 18:36:03 - [56] - Quote Post on your main or GTFO.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2993	Posted - 2015.08.11 18:39:23 - [57] - Quote To be honest so long as I'm getting mine I'm not super concerned about whether the other person is moaning or crying or whatever else.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14083	Posted - 2015.08.11 18:40:03 - [58] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: To be honest so long as I'm getting mine I'm not super concerned about whether the other person is moaning or crying or whatever else. At least you're honest about it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8242	Posted - 2015.08.11 18:59:35 - [59] - Quote Quote: Okay sure, sandbox and all that, BUT does not compute with Quote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? As an aside, you do realise that even the most mundane of activities in this game are Player versus Player? You're a miner, eh - you've got to compete against other deadheads to sell your little rocks. Oh, sorry, you're a mission running drone - where do you think all of that loot goes, either immediately or somewhere down the line (in terms of either tags and LP store items, or reprocessed mods)? That's right...another player on the other side of the internet interacts with you in some way to move the transaction forward. I really think that this game might not be for you if you can't grasp this fundamental concept. Might I be having your stuffz when you check out of EVE? [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Tupac ice Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2015.08.11 19:24:16 - [60] - Quote I hear something about free stuff..... We need good and bad in this game...its pretty simple, and the crazy thing is you can be both, or neither. Freedom in Gotham doesn't mean you can walk down every alley way.... You're going to get mugged. And batman can't be every where... What you need to do, to have the freedom to walk into that alley way is go grab yourself a bat... And off you go... Or send some one in before you... Or go when it's day time... Stop walking into the alley way, when you know it is unsafe, unprotected, by yourself. Batman really is just a dude with way to much pay to play going on.... Free stuff please. K thanks bye. Who the hell is this Tupac guy.... And what would he know? Anonymous.

Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2994	Posted - 2015.08.11 19:37:47 - [61] - Quote Generally speaking the rights that you have in eve are determined by your ability to apply and survive large quantities of projectile impacts, high energy coherent light and ionizing particle radiation.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 1901	Posted - 2015.08.11 20:12:57 - [62] - Quote sigh I just want easy market access next to my pvp. Why should I have to go 20 jumps to null when I can get a duel in system or go five for freighter ganking? Major Goob wrote: Post on your main or GTFO. Who the **** are you and what happened to your lip? Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information. BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Domino Vyse Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 281	Posted - 2015.08.11 20:30:14 - [63] - Quote Major Goob is an alt. It's a paradox!
Mortlake Devils Rejects 666 552	Posted - 2015.08.11 20:35:51 - [64] - Quote I'm old enough to have experienced lead based paint and additive riddled chocolate cigarettes, and consumed a fair quantity of both. Blaming me for my actions is like slapping a quadriplegic kitten for peeing on the rug. The OP is a hate enabler and nothing more. I'm the victim here.
Morgan Agrivar Yamaguchi Holding LLC Dread Pirate Syndicate 53	Posted - 2015.08.11 20:39:03 - [65] - Quote If you don't like it, grow a pair and fight back. Every ship I fly, even doing PvE, has a scram on it. Adapt or die. That is Eve. "Out of all the people who have tried to kill me, you are my favorite."
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2036	Posted - 2015.08.11 20:39:09 - [66] - Quote Mortlake wrote: I'm old enough to have experienced lead based paint and additive riddled chocolate cigarettes, and consumed a fair quantity of both. Blaming me for my actions is like slapping a quadriplegic kitten for peeing on the rug. The OP is a hate enabler and nothing more. I'm the victim here. Well done sir, I nearly felt sorry for you there for a moment. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Zimmy Zeta Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 59236	Posted - 2015.08.11 21:20:16 - [67] - Quote I have a theory: Robert de Lyse works for the Great Lakes Popcorn Company (Port Clinton/ OH) IRL and keeps making these threads to boost global popcorn consumption. I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Bellatrix Invicta The Conference Elite CODE. 172	Posted - 2015.08.11 23:11:28 - [68] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. My Light Neutron Blaster IIs and Void S give me that right. You have the right to try and stop me. I'd really appreciate it if you guys would actually try that before crying and whining. Stand up for yourselves, eh? If you think you've won, think again. The CODE always wins.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6515	Posted - 2015.08.12 00:07:04 - [69] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. EVE at its core is a pvp game, so it's a bit much to say we're forcing you to change how you play since it's up to you whether you choose to adapt to varying play styles or not. On the flipside the pve crowd demand game mechanic changes to change how we play the game. Who is forcing who? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 2435	Posted - 2015.08.12 03:21:44 - [70] - Quote Cobbler Khan wrote: I dont know why everyone is giving you a hard time, i 100% agree with this post There are a ton of things to do in eve. Industry, mining, pve, pve, salvaging, exploration. Eve isnt ONLY a pvp game. How do you get ships and modules? How do you make isk? How do you get components to build stuff? Just because a majority of players like to do pvp, doesnt make eve a "pvp only game you have to pvp or else" sure its the most popular thing to do, but there are other things to do in eve Uh, I steal things from other players, shoot their ships and melt down substandard components from them. I then mix in the refined bits with copious amounts of my special sauce (pod goo and tears) to make more modules and ships. Sometimes I even sell these things... but usually I sell the non-substandard (ie, shiny) modules to make ISK. So long as mission npcs and rats keep dropping stuff there's a steady supply of junk just waiting to be repurposed out there. Likewise, so long as mission runners keep doing silly things there's also a steady supply of shiny modules just waiting to be plundered out there as well. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Tarojan Tarojan Corporation 184	Posted - 2015.08.12 05:21:18 - [71] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Lan Wang wrote: what i mean is wardeccing a corp and forcing them to stay in a station because thats all they feel they can do is not really player freedom, wardecs are removing freedom from a player to benefit another player. sorta thing A war declaration has exactly zero effect on the ability of players to do anything. You can still mine, run missions and incursions and transport goods in exactly the same way as you could while not at war. If players feel that because they are at war they can't undock that restriction is entirely self imposed and as such they can free themselves of it at any time if they so desire. The actual danger faced by people at war is incredibly variable based on who they are a war with, their proximity to that group and other variables, but essentially it just amounts to an increase in risk that needs to be accounted for and mitigated where possible. In situations where players will do nothing but sit docked while at war what is really happening is the player is placing the value of their virtual property above the value of their gameplay: "it's better to not play at all than it is to lose a ship" or corp/alliance leadership making similar decision on the behalf of its members. It's neither the war itself nor the aggressors who are responsible for them remaining docked, they have no control over that. In fact they'd prefer a continuation of activity, generally speaking. It is all a matter of the attitude of the defenders and their willingness to respond to emergent situations in a way that provides them with gameplay. Is there a solution to that? I don't really know if it's actually a problem or even care for that matter. People are welcome to destroy their own game experience by sitting docked in a station for weeks at a time if they want, alternatively they can go join a different corp. You can't argue the current situation is great though surely? I mean if you wanted to violence one of my boats you would have to suicide gank it and concord is a terrible mechanic. If you war decced me, my available reasonable options become dont undock on this character until you stop wasting isk on the war dec or drop corp and make a new one. If you war decc the new one, just go live in an npc corp for a bit. Thats TERRIBLE game play for both of us. What isn't a reasonable option for me, in fact its verging on moronic, is to undock in a venture, a badger or a missioning rattlesnake under your war dec. That would be stupid, I would deserve to be killed and expect to be mocked for it. Nor would it be reasonable for me to undock in a pvp fit cruiser and come look for you. You would annihilate me with your off grid boosters, neutral logi alts and bat phoned allies. The current state of play is that the high sec pvp community has such an apparantly high bar of entry , which the odds stacked so high against the pvers, that those who want a mixed game of pve/pvp are better served dodging war decs and just going to low sec for fun and pew pew. Wouldn't it be so much better if we got rid of concord, war decs and armed pve ships to not be flying coffins if pvped? This is a pvp game right? so why not make ALL ships pvp wether for fight or for flight? Will gank for food
takedoom Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 76	Posted - 2015.08.12 05:38:14 - [72] - Quote The one thing I noticed with greifers: if you grief them they whine 2x as much as a care bear and its hilarious. http://spinthatdamnship.ytmnd.com/ I am not a thief. I am a treasure hunter.
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1653	Posted - 2015.08.12 06:09:42 - [73] - Quote takedoom wrote: The one thing I noticed with greifers: if you grief them they whine 2x as much as a care bear and its hilarious. I remember a fair amount of bitching in a certain channel about a certain eviction people experienced. You may be onto something here Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
Mag's the united 20047	Posted - 2015.08.12 06:13:03 - [74] - Quote takedoom wrote: The one thing I noticed with greifers: if you grief them they whine 2x as much as a care bear and its hilarious. Putting that thought aside, what do you consider griefing? Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Demerius Xenocratus Rapid Withdrawal 574	Posted - 2015.08.12 06:38:17 - [75] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The better player wins in a contest of opposite intents. That made me chuckle.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 92	Posted - 2015.08.12 06:40:40 - [76] - Quote takedoom wrote: The one thing I noticed with greifers: if you grief them they whine 2x as much as a care bear and its hilarious. The one thing I notice is people use the words griefer, griefers and griefing far to often, when no griefing has even occurred.
Demerius Xenocratus Rapid Withdrawal 574	Posted - 2015.08.12 06:44:02 - [77] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Generally speaking the rights that you have in eve are determined by your ability to apply and survive large quantities of projectile impacts, high energy coherent light and ionizing particle radiation. Aren't you forgetting something?
Mortlake Devils Rejects 666 559	Posted - 2015.08.12 06:48:38 - [78] - Quote From now on, you will refer to me as 'Apache'.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24622	Posted - 2015.08.12 07:35:58 - [79] - Quote Mortlake wrote: From now on, you will refer to me as 'Apache'. I lost it completely at "dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners" Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Robert De Lyse Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.08.12 08:52:50 - [80] - Quote wow 4 pages of hostile responses from griefers What a surprise.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14093	Posted - 2015.08.12 08:56:34 - [81] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: wow 4 pages of hostile responses from griefers What a surprise. I don't see any griefers. Griefing is something strictly defined as being against the rules by CCP, and is not in evidence here. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 2441	Posted - 2015.08.12 09:06:00 - [82] - Quote We're bored and kinda stopped taking you seriously a while ago. So now we amuse ourselves due to you being unable to do the job. Also, no griefers in EVE, they're all playing on Minecraft public servers. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14093	Posted - 2015.08.12 09:08:51 - [83] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: We're bored and kinda stopped taking you seriously a while ago. So now we amuse ourselves due to you being unable to do the job. Also, no griefers in EVE, they're all playing on Minecraft public servers. Can confirm, some little toad built a 200 block high wiener on my server last month, and somehow made it shoot sheep or cats or something out of the top constantly. I wish I was kidding. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24629	Posted - 2015.08.12 09:08:54 - [84] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: wow 4 pages of hostile responses from griefers What a surprise. You call people cowards, hypocrites and, in another thread, a bunch of see you next tuesdays, why are you surprised at their hostile responses? I guarantee you that if you did the same in real life you'd probably be sat in the A&E department of your local hospital counting how many teeth you've got left. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3009	Posted - 2015.08.12 11:51:59 - [85] - Quote Tarojan wrote: The current state of play is that the high sec pvp community has such an apparantly high bar of entry , which the odds stacked so high against the pvers, that those who want a mixed game of pve/pvp are better served dodging war decs and just going to low sec for fun and pew pew. Wouldn't it be so much better if we got rid of concord, war decs and armed pve ships to not be flying coffins if pvped? This is a pvp game right? so why not make ALL ships pvp wether for fight or for flight? This happened when they changed wars to have a 2500% higher base cost and added the ally system that unilaterally benefits the defender. The higher pay barrier caused low skill or low income aggressors to join larger groups to spread the costs around. The ally system made being the aggressor so much more potentially dangerous that it became virtual suicide for anyone but a dedicated pvp group to declare war at all. It's a situation wrought out of a misguided attempt to nerf highsec aggression. Instead of achieving it's actual goal it just put highsec PVP groups in a position where they have an absolute monopoly on combat in highsec. I don't expect it to be fixed, ever. I expect any future changes to exclusively involve more nerfs of a similar nature and for the situation to just become more extreme.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2039	Posted - 2015.08.12 16:15:58 - [86] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Avvy wrote: Lan Wang wrote: what i mean is wardeccing a corp and forcing them to stay in a station because thats all they feel they can do is not really player freedom, wardecs are removing freedom from a player to benefit another player. sorta thing Which is why a lot probably stay in NPC corps. If it wasn't for players choosing to suicide NPC corp. players they would be free from all combat PvP. I don't see the issue being the players so much but the way high-sec is set up, one of the reasons I don't intend to stay in high-sec. High-sec is kind of an odd place for a PvP game, but I guess it depends what CCP is really trying to do with it. Of which that I don't know. yeah and npc corps are another thing which need fixed, they are anti-social You know what else needs to be fixed? The fact that you haven't fought Leto in Thunderdome yet. Get on it Lan, we're tired of waiting! Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Robert De Lyse Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.08.12 17:26:34 - [87] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: wow 4 pages of hostile responses from griefers What a surprise. I don't see any griefers. Griefing is something strictly defined as being against the rules by CCP, and is not in evidence here. LOL - CCP wouldn't know what griefing meant if it: Travelled to Iceland Stripped Naked Smack every CCP person in the face Skull fecked them Raped them Pissed on them They still wouldnt have a clue, u do realise that EvE is refered to as GRIEF CENTRAL by every other MMO and 99% of gaming websites hold this game in contempt?
Robert De Lyse Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.08.12 17:32:10 - [88] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Tarojan wrote: The current state of play is that the high sec pvp community has such an apparantly high bar of entry , which the odds stacked so high against the pvers, that those who want a mixed game of pve/pvp are better served dodging war decs and just going to low sec for fun and pew pew. Wouldn't it be so much better if we got rid of concord, war decs and armed pve ships to not be flying coffins if pvped? This is a pvp game right? so why not make ALL ships pvp wether for fight or for flight? This happened when they changed wars to have a 2500% higher base cost and added the ally system that unilaterally benefits the defender. The higher pay barrier caused low skill or low income aggressors to join larger groups to spread the costs around. The ally system made being the aggressor so much more potentially dangerous that it became virtual suicide for anyone but a dedicated pvp group to declare war at all. It's a situation wrought out of a misguided attempt to nerf highsec aggression. Instead of achieving it's actual goal it just put highsec PVP groups in a position where they have an absolute monopoly on combat in highsec. I don't expect it to be fixed, ever. I expect any future changes to exclusively involve more nerfs of a similar nature and for the situation to just become more extreme. Also your best option if you're at war with BAW is to try and kill N1ghtw1ng, he's always suspect flagged, often not on comms and has no links or reps, he's also someone's son and gets yelled at irl if he dies. Alternatively put up a POCO somewhere and Shadowgirl9 will attempt to reinforce it solo in a faction battelship in the EU timezone while the rest of the alliance is sleeping. I also flyy Barghest around unscouted pretty often. There's lots of reasonable options of things to do other than running and hiding for people who are inclined to actually try. But trying is hard and calling a situation impossible and giving up is easy. Sorry but that's bull, you NEVER fly un scouted and have been known to order alliance members to step away so u can get solo kills. You are jsut like Tora, a liar and a scumbag, period
Domino Vyse Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 283	Posted - 2015.08.12 17:33:13 - [89] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: wow 4 pages of hostile responses from griefers What a surprise. I don't see any griefers. Griefing is something strictly defined as being against the rules by CCP, and is not in evidence here. LOL - CCP wouldn't know what griefing meant if it: Travelled to Iceland Stripped Naked Smack every CCP person in the face Skull fecked them Raped them Pissed on them They still wouldnt have a clue, u do realise that EvE is refered to as GRIEF CENTRAL by every other MMO and 99% of gaming websites hold this game in contempt? Why would we give two hoots about what some 12 year old WoW Sweatlord thinks of EvE?
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1660	Posted - 2015.08.12 17:53:56 - [90] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Omar Alharazaad wrote: We're bored and kinda stopped taking you seriously a while ago. So now we amuse ourselves due to you being unable to do the job. Also, no griefers in EVE, they're all playing on Minecraft public servers. Can confirm, some little toad built a 200 block high wiener on my server last month, and somehow made it shoot sheep or cats or something out of the top constantly. I wish I was kidding. Sounds more like art then greifing Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]

Robert De Lyse Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.08.12 17:58:59 - [91] - Quote Domino Vyse wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: wow 4 pages of hostile responses from griefers What a surprise. I don't see any griefers. Griefing is something strictly defined as being against the rules by CCP, and is not in evidence here. LOL - CCP wouldn't know what griefing meant if it: Travelled to Iceland Stripped Naked Smack every CCP person in the face Skull fecked them Raped them Pissed on them They still wouldnt have a clue, u do realise that EvE is refered to as GRIEF CENTRAL by every other MMO and 99% of gaming websites hold this game in contempt? Why would we give two hoots about what some 12 year old WoW Sweatlord thinks of EvE? There you go again, being vile as hell, this is why people hate this game, it is uncalled for, why the hell do u feel the need to insult people?
admiral root Red Galaxy 3014	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:03:44 - [92] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: There you go again, being vile as hell, this is why people hate this game, it is uncalled for, why the hell do u feel the need to insult people? Says the guy who made comments about all kinds of RL assault on CCP staff. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1662	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:07:21 - [93] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Tarojan wrote: The current state of play is that the high sec pvp community has such an apparantly high bar of entry , which the odds stacked so high against the pvers, that those who want a mixed game of pve/pvp are better served dodging war decs and just going to low sec for fun and pew pew. Wouldn't it be so much better if we got rid of concord, war decs and armed pve ships to not be flying coffins if pvped? This is a pvp game right? so why not make ALL ships pvp wether for fight or for flight? This happened when they changed wars to have a 2500% higher base cost and added the ally system that unilaterally benefits the defender. The higher pay barrier caused low skill or low income aggressors to join larger groups to spread the costs around. The ally system made being the aggressor so much more potentially dangerous that it became virtual suicide for anyone but a dedicated pvp group to declare war at all. It's a situation wrought out of a misguided attempt to nerf highsec aggression. Instead of achieving it's actual goal it just put highsec PVP groups in a position where they have an absolute monopoly on combat in highsec. I don't expect it to be fixed, ever. I expect any future changes to exclusively involve more nerfs of a similar nature and for the situation to just become more extreme. Also your best option if you're at war with BAW is to try and kill N1ghtw1ng, he's always suspect flagged, often not on comms and has no links or reps, he's also someone's son and gets yelled at irl if he dies. Alternatively put up a POCO somewhere and Shadowgirl9 will attempt to reinforce it solo in a faction battelship in the EU timezone while the rest of the alliance is sleeping. I also flyy Barghest around unscouted pretty often. There's lots of reasonable options of things to do other than running and hiding for people who are inclined to actually try. But trying is hard and calling a situation impossible and giving up is easy. And they stop doing all these things when they DEC us grr. No but seriously unless in a huge t3 and logo blob that shames most nullsec alliances there are always options to counter. Sometimes a huge blob of such ships is insurmountable by a small, low sp and/or poor group. If you are indeed a mixed group and willing to fight see if your aggressors will have some more fair fights. If you pissed them off or its a contract you made your bed already Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 1339	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:10:24 - [94] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: LOL - CCP wouldn't know what griefing meant if it: Travelled to Iceland Stripped Naked Smack every CCP person in the face Skull fecked them Raped them Pissed on them They still wouldnt have a clue, u do realise that EvE is refered to as GRIEF CENTRAL by every other MMO and 99% of gaming websites hold this game in contempt? Seems like you need to calm down, and then let your subscription expire. Eve is clearly not the game for you. I think I can speak for many of us here if I say your crudely-expressed bitterness and anger will not be missed.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24637	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:11:12 - [95] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: LOL - CCP wouldn't know what griefing meant if it: Travelled to Iceland Stripped Naked Smack every CCP person in the face Skull fecked them Raped them Pissed on them They still wouldnt have a clue, u do realise that EvE is refered to as GRIEF CENTRAL by every other MMO and 99% of gaming websites hold this game in contempt? Citation needed, most gaming websites seem to love the headlines that Eve generates, and the traffic that comes with them. Quote: There you go again, being vile as hell, Pot, meet kettle. Quote: this is why people hate this game, it is uncalled for, why the hell do u feel the need to insult people? More to the point, why do you feel the need to insult people and then get all defensive when they take umbrage to it? Can't stand the heat? GTFO out of the kitchen. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1662	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:11:20 - [96] - Quote admiral root wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: There you go again, being vile as hell, this is why people hate this game, it is uncalled for, why the hell do u feel the need to insult people? Says the guy who made comments about all kinds of RL assault on CCP staff. I regret I was crafting a post while this comment was made and you beat me too this. Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
admiral root Red Galaxy 3015	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:15:34 - [97] - Quote I have a feeling the cavalry has arrived in this thread. Go go gadget ISD! No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2042	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:25:55 - [98] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: wow 4 pages of hostile responses from griefers What a surprise. Here's the thing about "griefing" in EvE: CCP gets to define what constitutes "griefing", not you, not me, and not any of us here on the forum. What we denizens of C&P do in-game (i.e. wardec, suicide gank, can flip, mission flip, bump, hump, and generally annoy) is, for the most part, 100% legal under CCP's definition of "griefing". So you can complain about wardec mechanics all you like, but you have no standing to call us "griefers" for playing by the rules that CCP has laid out for us. As the proprietor of a small hisec PvP corp, I would love nothing more than to see wardec prices go up based on aggressor membership numbers. Fewer large corps wardeccing smaller corps means less competition for me to wardec small corps. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3014	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:55:29 - [99] - Quote Robert De Lys3 wrote: Sorry but that's bull, you NEVER fly un scouted and have been known to order alliance members to step away so u can get solo kills. I'm trying to imagine myself as some insane authority figure who keeps his non-director peons on a tight leash. Dispike: Vimsy, please may we get on this badger kill? Rinth Naskingar: please, we let you have the last ten kills to yourself. Vimsy Vortis: Silence, serfs you aren't worthy, if you want kills go alpha rookie ships in jita. This fiction is hilarious to me, is it based on something you've heard or is it entirely your own fabrication?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24640	Posted - 2015.08.12 19:00:33 - [100] - Quote Is this you OP? The posting style, glut of profanity and excessive butthurt about "griefing" seem very familiar. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.

ISD FlowingSpice ISD STAR 19	Posted - 2015.08.12 19:04:27 - [101] - Quote Quote: 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. Locked.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 6235	Posted - 2015.08.12 20:26:03 - [102] - Quote Unlocked the thread. Please continue enjoying your content, y'all. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Domino Vyse Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 291	Posted - 2015.08.12 20:32:14 - [103] - Quote ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Unlocked the thread. Please continue enjoying your content, y'all. aww you da best!
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3017	Posted - 2015.08.12 21:20:58 - [104] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: have been known to order alliance members to step away so u can get solo kills. Wait, have you ever been in the alliance End of Life? Because that's the only plausible explanation for this comment. Also whatever, it's now an alliance meme that I'm some kind of whip cracking slave driver. I'm running with it.
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1679	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:17:07 - [105] - Quote ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Unlocked the thread. Please continue enjoying your content, y'all. 2 thread unlocks in the same year... truly we are living in the end times Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
admiral root Red Galaxy 3019	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:25:02 - [106] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Unlocked the thread. Please continue enjoying your content, y'all. 2 thread unlocks in the same year... truly we are living in the end times Calm down, Marmite. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1681	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:32:58 - [107] - Quote admiral root wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Unlocked the thread. Please continue enjoying your content, y'all. 2 thread unlocks in the same year... truly we are living in the end times Calm down, Marmite. Its the end of days man. Comets and asteroids falling from the wormholes. Great space quakes turning off gates. Bears and gankers living together in peace. The end is nigh Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2049	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:35:33 - [108] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: admiral root wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Unlocked the thread. Please continue enjoying your content, y'all. 2 thread unlocks in the same year... truly we are living in the end times Calm down, Marmite. Its the end of days man. Comets and asteroids falling from the wormholes. Great space quakes turning off gates. Bears and gankers living together in peace. The end is nigh Mass hysteria! Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Mag's the united 20063	Posted - 2015.08.13 05:33:43 - [109] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: admiral root wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Unlocked the thread. Please continue enjoying your content, y'all. 2 thread unlocks in the same year... truly we are living in the end times Calm down, Marmite. Its the end of days man. Comets and asteroids falling from the wormholes. Great space quakes turning off gates. Bears and gankers living together in peace. The end is nigh Mass hysteria! It all sounds rather psychotic tbh. I'm in. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1690	Posted - 2015.08.13 06:28:58 - [110] - Quote @OP PS see how I got trolled here and ran with it Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]

Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1368	Posted - 2015.08.13 07:10:47 - [111] - Quote this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 1690	Posted - 2015.08.13 07:24:17 - [112] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in We are of the opinion that ISD have shares in popcorn manufacturers Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]
Nerath Naaris Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy 1038	Posted - 2015.08.13 07:26:07 - [113] - Quote Ah, remember that (too short) time when CCP screwed up wardec mechanics and half of New Eden was caught in in one massive war? Good times, but sadly it did not last.... Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Remiel Pollard Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 6861	Posted - 2015.08.13 09:46:13 - [114] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: It's dead simple really You whine and complain when empire war decs are discussed as possible nerfs, costs to rise etc and you come up with this: "Why should we be forced to PvP in low/null/wh's when we want to PvP in empire, we should be able to play EvE how we like" Okay sure, sandbox and all that, BUT: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. Stop being hypocrites. Griefers - Cowards who fly speed fit ships such as 10mn ab fit sivpuls with medium boosts, or gank certain systems with spys in each gate within a 1j radius, we had 7 war decs and we took a 30 man fleet, what did they all do? They ran to a station and hid. Smacked in local, in all there fancy t3's, they ran from a 30 man frig/dessy gang. Code - buncha noobs ganking barges and nearly causing a market crash, well done, well done "Griefers slam wow" - K sure, u don't play it for one reason, u cant go around destroying everyones stuff Buncha cowards, all of you. EVE is a PVP game, all of it - high, low, nul, wh, literally all of it. What that means is PVP is not griefing, it's part of the game. This isn't every other MMO on the market, this is EVE Online - griefing elsewhere ain't griefing here. Capiche? And low sec is part of empire space too, just so you know. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3023	Posted - 2015.08.13 13:00:21 - [115] - Quote Nerath Naaris wrote: Ah, remember that (too short) time when CCP screwed up wardec mechanics and half of New Eden was caught in in one massive war? Good times, but sadly it did not last.... The mechanics had actually been screwed up for an extremely long time. What triggered that whole fiasco was CCP ruling that joining an alliance and then leaving it again to transfer a war was no longer considered an exploit. When that happened Zerg Overmind decided he was going to break it to demonstrate what a bad decision CCP had made in doing that. It was pretty hilarious and one of the proofs of CCP having no idea how either mechanics or rules policies affect highsec pvp.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 6249	Posted - 2015.08.13 14:06:56 - [116] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in We are of the opinion that ISD have shares in popcorn manufacturers That or I like content. Mmmm, hot buttered content. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2058	Posted - 2015.08.13 14:09:50 - [117] - Quote ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in We are of the opinion that ISD have shares in popcorn manufacturers That or I like content. Mmmm, hot buttered content. This may be my single most favorite ISD post ever. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1375	Posted - 2015.08.13 14:19:19 - [118] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in We are of the opinion that ISD have shares in popcorn manufacturers That or I like content. Mmmm, hot buttered content. This may be my single most favorite ISD post ever. plot twist: now the thread is unlocked nobody knows what to say #endofthread EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Mortlake Devils Rejects 666 564	Posted - 2015.08.13 14:22:32 - [119] - Quote ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in We are of the opinion that ISD have shares in popcorn manufacturers That or I like content. Mmmm, hot buttered content. Much better than hot butt content, that's for sure.
Noragen Neirfallas The Scope Gallente Federation 1696	Posted - 2015.08.13 15:12:01 - [120] - Quote ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in We are of the opinion that ISD have shares in popcorn manufacturers That or I like content. Mmmm, hot buttered content. All right sir you just earnt your place back in my signature (and heart). Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie [s]ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD[/s]

Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1376	Posted - 2015.08.13 15:55:53 - [121] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in We are of the opinion that ISD have shares in popcorn manufacturers That or I like content. Mmmm, hot buttered content. All right sir you just earnt your place back in my signature (and heart). i should earn a place in your sig because you're my favourite marmites EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 617	Posted - 2015.08.13 17:22:01 - [122] - Quote Mortlake wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this thread got unlocked wtf is happening here? isd ordered some popcorn in We are of the opinion that ISD have shares in popcorn manufacturers That or I like content. Mmmm, hot buttered content. Much better than hot butt content, that's for sure. Depends who you ask...
pushdogg Tell Your Mum To Call Me Cruis3rs Cr3w 57	Posted - 2015.08.13 18:46:38 - [123] - Quote Robert De Lyse wrote: It's dead simple really You whine and complain when empire war decs are discussed as possible nerfs, costs to rise etc and you come up with this: "Why should we be forced to PvP in low/null/wh's when we want to PvP in empire, we should be able to play EvE how we like" Okay sure, sandbox and all that, BUT: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. Stop being hypocrites. Griefers - Cowards who fly speed fit ships such as 10mn ab fit sivpuls with medium boosts, or gank certain systems with spys in each gate within a 1j radius, we had 7 war decs and we took a 30 man fleet, what did they all do? They ran to a station and hid. Smacked in local, in all there fancy t3's, they ran from a 30 man frig/dessy gang. Code - buncha noobs ganking barges and nearly causing a market crash, well done, well done "Griefers slam wow" - K sure, u don't play it for one reason, u cant go around destroying everyones stuff Buncha cowards, all of you. To quote my dear old mum, "everything after the "BUT" is bullshit".
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1379	Posted - 2015.08.13 19:19:14 - [124] - Quote pushdogg wrote: Robert De Lyse wrote: It's dead simple really You whine and complain when empire war decs are discussed as possible nerfs, costs to rise etc and you come up with this: "Why should we be forced to PvP in low/null/wh's when we want to PvP in empire, we should be able to play EvE how we like" Okay sure, sandbox and all that, BUT: What gives you the RIGHT to force the empire population of EvE to PvP? To FORCE them to play how you want to play? To FORCE them to change there mission/industrial/exploration play styles to PVP against you? What gives you the RIGHT to FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY THE GAME how you want to? You don't want to be FORCED into low/null/wh's. Stop being hypocrites. Griefers - Cowards who fly speed fit ships such as 10mn ab fit sivpuls with medium boosts, or gank certain systems with spys in each gate within a 1j radius, we had 7 war decs and we took a 30 man fleet, what did they all do? They ran to a station and hid. Smacked in local, in all there fancy t3's, they ran from a 30 man frig/dessy gang. Code - buncha noobs ganking barges and nearly causing a market crash, well done, well done "Griefers slam wow" - K sure, u don't play it for one reason, u cant go around destroying everyones stuff Buncha cowards, all of you. To quote my dear old mum, "everything is bullshit". fixed that for ya bud EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
takedoom Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 76	Posted - 2015.08.13 19:23:12 - [125] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: takedoom wrote: The one thing I noticed with greifers: if you grief them they whine 2x as much as a care bear and its hilarious. I remember a fair amount of bitching in a certain channel about a certain eviction people experienced. You may be onto something here I remember the certain channel and certain people and it was hilarious. http://spinthatdamnship.ytmnd.com/ I am not a thief. I am a treasure hunter.
Xeno Szenn SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 14	Posted - 2015.08.14 15:53:57 - [126] - Quote The same argument of player freedom could be given to letting caps and supper cap be used in high sec for fighting. If you war deck a heavy supper cap group why canGÇÖt they deploy all their assets to fight with. WhatGÇÖs wrong with 30 to 40 slow cats in high sec after all its pvp right? Oh donGÇÖt worry war deck victim thatGÇÖs just a wrecking ball you can deal with it and we canGÇÖt dock never mind that were near impossible to break with sub caps. I mean it is player freedom and were in a pvp game so since you can hit me with a t1 frigate why canGÇÖt I hit you with a titan yes itGÇÖs a bad analogy I really donGÇÖt care it gets the point across. So shouldnGÇÖt they be free to pvp any way they want? I mean honestly combat supper caps or doomsdays in high sec is a bad idea but still the argument could be made that it's a pvp game and you have ways to avoid them. While weGÇÖre at it since itGÇÖs a pvp game if you war deck a corp or alliance or they war deck you with -5 pilots the faction police will look the other way because you are at war with them no so long as the -5 doesnGÇÖt do a concord level offense then the faction police donGÇÖt interfere after all it's a pvp game. Oh and canGÇÖt forget bombers or bombs since it is a pvp game I should be able to bomb in high sec right. I know concord will kill me and my fleet but what harm can 14 bombers do itGÇÖs only 14 t2 frigates nothing bad can happen. I mean were in a pvp game and itGÇÖs about pvp. CCP has to do something to make highest interesting and entertaining for you folks otherwise you wouldnGÇÖt be there. High sec needs to be carefully balanced between highsec pvp and a place for players seeking to avoid pvp. Should it be 100 percent safe no. Should I be able to park a bomber wing on pings waiting for a scout to say targets jumped and then pull off a bombing wave knowing full well IGÇÖll get concorded but rip enemy fleet or one hell of a gank. No Code guys could you imagine trying to kill mining titans if they allowed supper caps into high sec but no offensive capacity. Yes they could be killed but honestly you would need to gather a massive amount of force and hold it there forever to kill it if it was npc and you got concored ever time. War decks how would you fill if every time you went to fight a group they undocked 30 to 40 slowcats on you? Miners and mission runners how would you fell facing slowcats if you know anything about them? Freighter people how would you like knowing that if thereGÇÖs any chance you surviving theyGÇÖll just dread blob you sure itGÇÖs not isk efficient but it would generate tears. I personally think high sec does need an overhaul but since I donGÇÖt live there my opinion on the matter is meaningless but right now combat drivers seem to be almost nonexistent in high sec. Get war decked drop corp reform. Watch local it spikes with red warp and dock. Use scouts to haul your stuff with and a web ship preferably use a jump freighter with emergency cyno in place to cover your route. There are a ton of ways to avoid a fight but what reason is there for fighting in high sec beyond the fun of it? IGÇÖll fully admit IGÇÖm probably missing something but just my thoughts on the subject.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3033	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:06:05 - [127] - Quote Not really sure what that long rambling post was trying to get at. All I got is that capitals should be allowed in highsec and I entirely agree. The losses of entire carrier fleets to suspect flagging alone would be worth it.
admiral root Red Galaxy 3034	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:08:03 - [128] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: All I got is that capitals should be allowed in highsec and I entirely agree. And bombs! \o/ No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3033	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:09:31 - [129] - Quote I can only imagine the glory of "bomb ganking" entire mining fleets at once.
Xeno Szenn SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 14	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:16:34 - [130] - Quote Tl-dr is that basicly ccp needs to balance high sec for both predator and prey aka care bear and Emergent game play people. Neither side should get everything they wan't and some ideas are very far out there and bad for high sec in my opinion but erasing either type of game play would be bad for the game. Instead of erasing gameplay conflict drivers should be a way of changing high sec to be more fun for both sides if ccp does wan't to change high sec. But supper-caps and bombs would make high sec more interesting no argument here. So aka Player freedom, War deck changes or nerfs all need to be done in a way to keep all aspects of high sec game play open. Neither side should be able to force the other into any type of gameplay rather tools are available for all sides to play the game how they want to play it and for the Op it's up to you to use those tools.

admiral root Red Galaxy 3035	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:16:53 - [131] - Quote Not to mention lazy and / or dumb people on the 4/4 undock. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24702	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:19:32 - [132] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: I can only imagine the glory of "bomb ganking" entire mining fleets at once. admiral root wrote: Not to mention lazy and / or dumb people on the 4/4 undock. The amount of tears that would generate means that I would get the opportunity to use this gif. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Xeno Szenn SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 14	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:22:56 - [133] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: I can only imagine the glory of "bomb ganking" entire mining fleets at once. admiral root wrote: Not to mention lazy and / or dumb people on the 4/4 undock. The amount of tears that would generate means that I would get the opportunity to use this gif. No that gif would be perfect if jita 4/4 could be deadzoned or destoryed again a bad idea but tears would flow.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3037	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:29:21 - [134] - Quote Realistically in terms of resources and man power large nullsec entities are entirely capable of smacking the collective pee-pees of any given highsec pvp group even using subcapitals. They just don't because they lack the will to do it. Subsequently the presence of capitals in highsec isn't an intimidating idea because groups who have large quantities of capitals wouldn't use them for highsec pvp, meanwhile highsec PvPers who have their own capitals would use theirs for pvp. The situation wouldn't be any different to how it is now. I really want highsec capitals to happen so I can blap dread war targets.
Xeno Szenn SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 14	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:38:29 - [135] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Realistically in terms of resources and man power large nullsec entities are entirely capable of smacking the collective pee-pees of any given highsec pvp group even using subcapitals. They just don't because they lack the will to do it. Subsequently the presence of capitals in highsec isn't an intimidating idea because groups who have large quantities of capitals wouldn't use them for highsec pvp, meanwhile highsec PvPers who have their own capitals would use theirs for pvp. The situation wouldn't be any different to how it is now. I really want highsec capitals to happen so I can blap dread war targets. True the power could crush high sec if they desired to but why should they it relay has no value to them. In terms of capitals I know low sec groups who use them extensively and pre phebe they has been a ramp up of capital use form what i've seen in low sec and why wouldn;t people use them in high sec and stockpile numbers of them if the choice was given to them. Granted killing a single cap is easy killing multiple of them with a support fleet can offer a decent challenge. I do wonder if a slowcat fleet going suspect would bring everyone in to fight them though and watching concord kill carriers and dreads would be funny.
Xeno Szenn SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 14	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:39:19 - [136] - Quote Xeno Szenn wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Realistically in terms of resources and man power large nullsec entities are entirely capable of smacking the collective pee-pees of any given highsec pvp group even using subcapitals. They just don't because they lack the will to do it. Subsequently the presence of capitals in highsec isn't an intimidating idea because groups who have large quantities of capitals wouldn't use them for highsec pvp, meanwhile highsec PvPers who have their own capitals would use theirs for pvp. The situation wouldn't be any different to how it is now. I really want highsec capitals to happen so I can blap dread war targets. True the power blocks could crush high sec if they desired to but why should they it relay has no value to them. In terms of capitals I know low sec groups who use them extensively and pre phebe they has been a ramp up of capital use form what i've seen in low sec and why wouldn;t people use them in high sec and stockpile numbers of them if the choice was given to them. Granted killing a single cap is easy killing multiple of them with a support fleet can offer a decent challenge. I do wonder if a slowcat fleet going suspect would bring everyone in to fight them though and watching concord kill carriers and dreads would be funny.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2080	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:39:58 - [137] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: I really want highsec capitals to happen so I can blap dread war targets. I feel that there would be benefits to having some areas of hisec remain off limits to capitals, but I am toying around with the notion of allowing them in to 0.7 and below. I see pros and cons and don't know yet which win. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Zimmy Zeta Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 59298	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:40:37 - [138] - Quote Xeno Szenn wrote: ... Oh my. A formatting emergency. Let me help you, please: The same argument of player freedom could be used to let caps and supercaps be used in high sec. If you wardec a heavy supercap group why canGÇÖt they deploy all their assets to fight with? WhatGÇÖs wrong with 30 to 40 slowcats in high sec, after all its pvp, right? "Oh donGÇÖt worry wardec victim,thatGÇÖs just a wrecking ball. You can deal with it and we canGÇÖt dock- never mind that we are near impossible to break with sub caps." I mean it is player freedom and we are in a pvp game; so since you can hit me with a t1 frigate why canGÇÖt I hit you with a titan? Yes, itGÇÖs a bad analogy, but I really donGÇÖt care- it gets the point across. So shouldnGÇÖt they be free to pvp any way they want? I mean, honestly, supercaps or doomsdays in high sec are a bad idea, but still the argument could be made that it's a pvp game and you have ways to avoid them. While weGÇÖre at it: Since itGÇÖs a pvp game, if you wardec a corp or alliance or they wardec you with -5 pilots, the faction police will look the other way because you are at war with them. Unless the -5s donGÇÖt do a concord level offense, the faction police wonGÇÖt interfere. After all it's a pvp game. Oh, and donGÇÖt forget bombers or bombs- since it is a pvp game, I should be able to bomb in high sec, right? I know concord will kill me and my fleet, but what harm can 14 bombers do? ItGÇÖs only 14 t2 frigates, nothing bad can happen, I mean we're in a pvp game and itGÇÖs about pvp. /s CCP has to do something to make highsec interesting and entertaining for you folks- otherwise you wouldnGÇÖt be there. Highsec needs to be carefully balanced between highsec pvp and a place for players who seek to avoid pvp. Should it be 100 percent safe? No. Should I be able to park a bomber wing on pings, waiting for a scout to say "targets jumped" and then pull off a bombing wave, knowing full well IGÇÖll get concorded,but rip enemy fleet apart in one hell of a gank? No. Could you imagine CODE trying to kill mining titans if they allowed supercaps into high sec (but without offensive capacity)? Yes, they could be killed, but honestly you would need to gather a massive amount of force and hold one there forever to kill it. If it was in a npc corp you would get concored every time. Wardeccers, how would you feel if every time you went to fight, a group of 30 to 40 slowcats undocked? Miners and mission runners, how would you feel facing slowcats if you knew anything about them? Freighter people, how would you like knowing that theyGÇÖll just dread blob you without any chance to survive? Sure, itGÇÖs not isk efficient but it would generate tears... I personally think highsec does need an overhaul- but since I donGÇÖt live there, my opinion on the matter is meaningless. But right now, combat drivers seem to be almost nonexistent in high sec: Get wardecced - drop corp - reform. Watch local as it spikes with red, then warp off and dock. Use scouts to haul your stuff with and a webbed ship (preferably a jump freighter with emergency cyno) to cover your route. There are a ton of ways to avoid a fight- but what reason is there to fight in high sec beyond the fun of it? IGÇÖll fully admit IGÇÖm probably missing something, just my thoughts on the subject. I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Xeno Szenn SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 15	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:46:11 - [139] - Quote Thank you for the formatting help i know i don't forum well.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3038	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:51:15 - [140] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: I really want highsec capitals to happen so I can blap dread war targets. I feel that there would be benefits to having some areas of hisec remain off limits to capitals, but I am toying around with the notion of allowing them in to 0.7 and below. I see pros and cons and don't know yet which win. I don't see what the value would be to prohibiting them from systems based on sec status. The only possible concerns are how they'd be nigh invulnerable when flown by NPC corp characters because of their enormous EHP, otherwise they'd be completely reasonable. This is one of those reasons I think corporations and alliances should be upgradable and able to handle aurum transactions, "Empire capital licence" 2000 aur for a corp, 6000 aur for an alliance. Oh look you solved the problem of capital vulnerability in highsec, increased the value of a player group and added a monetization point too, everyone wins.

Zimmy Zeta Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 59299	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:51:17 - [141] - Quote Xeno Szenn wrote: Thank you for the formatting help i know i don't forum well. No problem, man. You owe R1FTA a hotdrop now- we'll just light the cyno should we have need of you. I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
admiral root Red Galaxy 3035	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:56:14 - [142] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: This is one of those reasons I think corporations and alliances should be upgradable and able to handle aurum transactions, "Empire capital licence" 2000 aur for a corp, 6000 aur for an alliance. Oh look you solved the problem of capital vulnerability in highsec, increased the value of a player group and added a monetization point too, everyone wins. Anything involving aurum is a terrible idea. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3038	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:57:35 - [143] - Quote It's a thing. We have to live with it.
Adriel Malakai Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 604	Posted - 2015.08.14 17:12:01 - [144] - Quote They also should have done alliance logos for aurum. Then charge players a one time fee to be able to display it on ships.
Odie McCracken Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2015.08.14 17:23:39 - [145] - Quote I dunno.... I think the moaning, along with the heavy breathing, is kinda hot
Noragen Neirfallas The Scope Gallente Federation 1711	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:18:49 - [146] - Quote Xeno Szenn wrote: Thank you for the formatting help i know i don't forum well. How do you have time to forum? Don't you have some overlords butt to kiss? Also hello again you are quickly going from forums are a waste of time to a regular. Just fair warning at this rate you will start checking out every thread Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1387	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:38:27 - [147] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Not really sure what that long rambling post was trying to get at. All I got is that capitals should be allowed in highsec and I entirely agree. The losses of entire carrier fleets to suspect flagging alone would be worth it. i dont think 99% of wardeccers would know what to do if a slowcat fleet landed on an undock, apart from dock up EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 625	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:42:06 - [148] - Quote I like the idea of cap boats in high sec. It's the cynos I don't like. I think it would make sense if you let them go through gates (or created a restriction so it didn't destroy the distance value of the market). As for fights, I think it would make the PVE corp more disadvantaged. Imagine those high sec t3 corps with hundreds of players and then imagine them all in caps. If you had to slow boat them, that would keep them in check. Of course, it would destroy one more motivator for people to go to low or null...
Leto Thule Origin. Black Legion. 3286	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:47:11 - [149] - Quote Mobadder Thworst wrote: I like the idea of cap boats in high sec. It's the cynos I don't like. I think it would make sense if you let them go through gates (or created a restriction so it didn't destroy the distance value of the market). As for fights, I think it would make the PVE corp more disadvantaged. Imagine those high sec t3 corps with hundreds of players and then imagine them all in caps. If you had to slow boat them, that would keep them in check. Of course, it would destroy one more motivator for people to go to low or null... Capitals taking gates is already a thing, bud. Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 625	Posted - 2015.08.15 01:21:36 - [150] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Not really sure what that long rambling post was trying to get at. All I got is that capitals should be allowed in highsec and I entirely agree. The losses of entire carrier fleets to suspect flagging alone would be worth it. i dont think 99% of wardeccers would know what to do if a slowcat fleet landed on an undock, apart from dock up Most of us are senior players... We can fly them just fine.

Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 625	Posted - 2015.08.15 01:22:48 - [151] - Quote Leto Thule wrote: Mobadder Thworst wrote: I like the idea of cap boats in high sec. It's the cynos I don't like. I think it would make sense if you let them go through gates (or created a restriction so it didn't destroy the distance value of the market). As for fights, I think it would make the PVE corp more disadvantaged. Imagine those high sec t3 corps with hundreds of players and then imagine them all in caps. If you had to slow boat them, that would keep them in check. Of course, it would destroy one more motivator for people to go to low or null... Capitals taking gates is already a thing, bud. Next thing you know, they'll be making t3 ships...
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3043	Posted - 2015.08.15 01:53:52 - [152] - Quote You can't remote sebo something in siege.
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 625	Posted - 2015.08.15 01:54:57 - [153] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: You can't remote sebo something in siege. Ahh, another necessary change! Good catch!
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3043	Posted - 2015.08.15 01:59:51 - [154] - Quote Nobody wants remote sensor boosted, remote tracking linked blap dreads.
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 625	Posted - 2015.08.15 02:07:30 - [155] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Nobody wants remote sensor boosted, remote tracking linked blap dreads. Mostly, I'm just trying to illustrate that the high-sec wardec crowd would probably be able to navigate the addition of dreads as well as anyone. Their cause is chaos... And I feel certain capitals would greatly facilitate that cause... I like the idea of an insta-dread... Good or not...
Noragen Neirfallas The Scope Gallente Federation 1714	Posted - 2015.08.15 03:13:37 - [156] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Not really sure what that long rambling post was trying to get at. All I got is that capitals should be allowed in highsec and I entirely agree. The losses of entire carrier fleets to suspect flagging alone would be worth it. i dont think 99% of wardeccers would know what to do if a slowcat fleet landed on an undock, apart from dock up 99% of wardeccers cant handle a destroyer fleet just saying . Well that's not true but at the very least PIRAT seemed confused today on what to do about it on their undock. Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 626	Posted - 2015.08.15 03:58:18 - [157] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Not really sure what that long rambling post was trying to get at. All I got is that capitals should be allowed in highsec and I entirely agree. The losses of entire carrier fleets to suspect flagging alone would be worth it. i dont think 99% of wardeccers would know what to do if a slowcat fleet landed on an undock, apart from dock up 99% of wardeccers cant handle a destroyer fleet just saying . Well that's not true but at the very least PIRAT seemed confused today on what to do about it on their undock. Russians are a different set of rules... I did not intend to characterize them. But most of the guys I ran with for years would be happy to fly caps in high sec... To be honest, though, I wish they would take measures to make t1 frigs relevant again before they attempt to bring caps to high sec.
Noragen Neirfallas The Scope Gallente Federation 1715	Posted - 2015.08.15 04:21:08 - [158] - Quote Mobadder Thworst wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Not really sure what that long rambling post was trying to get at. All I got is that capitals should be allowed in highsec and I entirely agree. The losses of entire carrier fleets to suspect flagging alone would be worth it. i dont think 99% of wardeccers would know what to do if a slowcat fleet landed on an undock, apart from dock up 99% of wardeccers cant handle a destroyer fleet just saying . Well that's not true but at the very least PIRAT seemed confused today on what to do about it on their undock. Russians are a different set of rules... I did not intend to characterize them. But most of the guys I ran with for years would be happy to fly caps in high sec... To be honest, though, I wish they would take measures to make t1 frigs relevant again before they attempt to bring caps to high sec. Eh this is circular but basically if you bring in caps you raise the bar to be relevant in the area. I mean personally I can fly a slowcat and 2 dreads between my toons but I'd be disappointed if this became a thing in highsec. Also as mentioned Carriers would be invulnerable in npc corps Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 627	Posted - 2015.08.15 04:30:49 - [159] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Mobadder Thworst wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Not really sure what that long rambling post was trying to get at. All I got is that capitals should be allowed in highsec and I entirely agree. The losses of entire carrier fleets to suspect flagging alone would be worth it. i dont think 99% of wardeccers would know what to do if a slowcat fleet landed on an undock, apart from dock up 99% of wardeccers cant handle a destroyer fleet just saying . Well that's not true but at the very least PIRAT seemed confused today on what to do about it on their undock. Russians are a different set of rules... I did not intend to characterize them. But most of the guys I ran with for years would be happy to fly caps in high sec... To be honest, though, I wish they would take measures to make t1 frigs relevant again before they attempt to bring caps to high sec. Eh this is circular but basically if you bring in caps you raise the bar to be relevant in the area. I mean personally I can fly a slowcat and 2 dreads between my toons but I'd be disappointed if this became a thing in highsec. Also as mentioned Carriers would be invulnerable in npc corps Yeah, I think I just wanted to counter-argue the idea that highsec caps would mean the end of all the nasty war deccers. War deccers are only relevant because they know what they're doing. What I really want is can flipping back (and a free license to turn Akiainavas back into a zoo). I can make t1 frigs relevant in that scenario just by flying them.
Xeno Szenn SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 16	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:17:34 - [160] - Quote Yeah, I think I just wanted to counter-argue the idea that highsec caps would mean the end of all the nasty war deccers. War deccers are only relevant because they know what they're doing. What I really want is can flipping back (and a free license to turn Akiainavas back into a zoo). I can make t1 frigs relevant in that scenario just by flying them.[/quote] Not saying they don't know what there doing but honestly it would be a death blow to high sec. Sure you know what your doing but if your dropping caps then you may get the bigger fish interested and they have years of experience in killing caps and groups. That's not to say that they would find you amusing to play with or even care about trying to kill them but you may actual draw there attention if you have enough capitals and are using them. The complete other side of the coin from use everything in high sec is a 100 percent safe high sec and that would be bad for the game and for high sec as well. You guys have a nice middle ground that could use a few more conflict drivers give people a reason to fight and they will generally. Give them a way to fight with impunity and they will. For isk makers give them a way to be 100 percent safe and they will do that as well. Honestly a fair fight in eve only exists if you planed wrong. Everyone is looking for an advantage and if they can gain an advantage they will do so.

Noragen Neirfallas The Scope Gallente Federation 1718	Posted - 2015.08.15 11:02:32 - [161] - Quote Xeno Szenn wrote: Not saying they don't know what there doing but honestly it would be a death blow to high sec. Sure you know what your doing but if your dropping caps then you may get the bigger fish interested and they have years of experience in killing caps and groups. That's not to say that they would find you amusing to play with or even care about trying to kill them but you may actual draw there attention if you have enough capitals and are using them. The complete other side of the coin from use everything in high sec is a 100 percent safe high sec and that would be bad for the game and for high sec as well. You guys have a nice middle ground that could use a few more conflict drivers give people a reason to fight and they will generally. Give them a way to fight with impunity and they will. For isk makers give them a way to be 100 percent safe and they will do that as well. Honestly a fair fight in eve only exists if you planed wrong. Everyone is looking for an advantage and if they can gain an advantage they will do so. You realize half the **** we fly in highsec cost more then your slowcats right? Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
Xeno Szenn SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 16	Posted - 2015.08.15 11:45:06 - [162] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Xeno Szenn wrote: Not saying they don't know what there doing but honestly it would be a death blow to high sec. Sure you know what your doing but if your dropping caps then you may get the bigger fish interested and they have years of experience in killing caps and groups. That's not to say that they would find you amusing to play with or even care about trying to kill them but you may actual draw there attention if you have enough capitals and are using them. The complete other side of the coin from use everything in high sec is a 100 percent safe high sec and that would be bad for the game and for high sec as well. You guys have a nice middle ground that could use a few more conflict drivers give people a reason to fight and they will generally. Give them a way to fight with impunity and they will. For isk makers give them a way to be 100 percent safe and they will do that as well. Honestly a fair fight in eve only exists if you planed wrong. Everyone is looking for an advantage and if they can gain an advantage they will do so. You realize half the **** we fly in highsec cost more then your slowcats right? They may cost more but could they kill them? thats the real question could you break them and throw in high grade slaves and all of that I kind of doubt it. Time may prove me wrong though if high sec combat caps ever become a thing.
Noragen Neirfallas The Scope Gallente Federation 1718	Posted - 2015.08.15 12:12:23 - [163] - Quote Xeno Szenn wrote: Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Xeno Szenn wrote: Not saying they don't know what there doing but honestly it would be a death blow to high sec. Sure you know what your doing but if your dropping caps then you may get the bigger fish interested and they have years of experience in killing caps and groups. That's not to say that they would find you amusing to play with or even care about trying to kill them but you may actual draw there attention if you have enough capitals and are using them. The complete other side of the coin from use everything in high sec is a 100 percent safe high sec and that would be bad for the game and for high sec as well. You guys have a nice middle ground that could use a few more conflict drivers give people a reason to fight and they will generally. Give them a way to fight with impunity and they will. For isk makers give them a way to be 100 percent safe and they will do that as well. Honestly a fair fight in eve only exists if you planed wrong. Everyone is looking for an advantage and if they can gain an advantage they will do so. You realize half the **** we fly in highsec cost more then your slowcats right? They may cost more but could they kill them? thats the real question could you break them and throw in high grade slaves and all of that I kind of doubt it. Time may prove me wrong though if high sec combat caps ever become a thing. don't stress it wont Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
ErrorRon ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 174	Posted - 2015.08.15 13:59:52 - [164] - Quote BRING BACK AOE DOOMSDAYS IN HIGHSEC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtItWL6GfSM CCP Gargant - -áDev of my heart.
Tora Bushido EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 2654	Posted - 2015.08.15 16:06:39 - [165] - Quote Xeno wrote: True the power blocks could crush high sec if they desired to but why should they it relay has no value to them haha DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 637	Posted - 2015.08.15 17:04:05 - [166] - Quote Tora Bushido wrote: Xeno wrote: True the power blocks could crush high sec if they desired to but why should they it relay has no value to them haha This sentiment is just so unfounded. It's easy to imagine that the giants staging those huge null sec battles are the true powers of Eve. They own systems! However, they're fighting over hundreds of systems where a small minority of the game plays. They are largely there for the good isk and stability (no wardecs). Their "power" in my experience is mostly in the areas of wealth and logistics. There has always been a large wardec alliance spanking the null powers. When I was a young player it was the privateer alliance, I participated in it when it was the orphanage, now it's marmites. When I was in the orphanage, we loved it when a null fleet would come up. We knew the systems, had enough scouts to build a good "worst case" fleet long before they arrived, and always enjoyed the opportunity for a large fleet fight. We had plenty of guys who were experienced FC's from null... And plenty of high sec guerrillas as well. I don't remember ever losing one of those fights. I would guess marmites are the same. Keep in mind when you pretend that control in null is better that marmites are controlling the space where 70% of the player base competes.
Yukimisama Deviant Dollyz 14	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:52:37 - [167] - Quote Dude come on, they get evicted out of Null/W-Space often enough, they can't defend themselves against the real alliances when they try, so why keep trying when it's possible to come to high-sec and suicide gank all day and war-dec all day and make billions anyways? ****** players of the game killing the young players instead of getting better to hang with the vets where it matters in null, and you think they're 'not' going to whine and cry? They're worse than the new players who don't know any better. In My World...
Mortlake Devils Rejects 666 573	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:28:25 - [168] - Quote Yukimisama wrote: Dude come on, they get evicted out of Null/W-Space often enough, they can't defend themselves against the real alliances when they try, so why keep trying when it's possible to come to high-sec and suicide gank all day and war-dec all day and make billions anyways? **** players of the game killing the young players instead of getting better to hang with the vets where it matters in null, and you think they're 'not' going to whine and cry? They're worse than the new players who don't know any better. I killed a 3 week old player a few weeks ago. Shat my pants. He nearly had me but just as I was about to go down I killed the last of his Venture's drones. Don't talk ** about mercs until you've operated at the deep end of the septic tank.
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 637	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:29:50 - [169] - Quote Yukimisama wrote: Dude come on, they get evicted out of Null/W-Space often enough, they can't defend themselves against the real alliances when they try, so why keep trying when it's possible to come to high-sec and suicide gank all day and war-dec all day and make billions anyways? ****** players of the game killing the young players instead of getting better to hang with the vets where it matters in null, and you think they're 'not' going to whine and cry? They're worse than the new players who don't know any better. Show me something on those evictions, I'm not familiar. Maybe you have some battlereports you could link? As for high sec... I can't see the argument that the zone where 70% of the population plus is a noob zone. I think I could make a better argument that it's the game and null is an included minigame. Enjoy your minigame... Mo
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24742	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:43:07 - [170] - Quote Yukimisama wrote: ****** players of the game killing the young players instead of getting better to hang with the vets where it matters in null, and you think they're 'not' going to whine and cry? They're worse than the new players who don't know any better. This thread would like a word with you, half of the mercs that are supposedly greifing the hell out of this huge newbie corp have alts in the corp providing fitted ships and teaching them tactics, game mechanics and generally how to survive in Eve and have fun. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.

Noragen Neirfallas The Scope Gallente Federation 1730	Posted - 2015.08.15 23:51:48 - [171] - Quote ErrorRon wrote: BRING BACK AOE DOOMSDAYS IN HIGHSEC Its a monocle... Tora ALT confirmed Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3048	Posted - 2015.08.16 04:52:18 - [172] - Quote Yukimisama wrote: where it matters in null Please make a convincing argument as to why something that happens in null matters.
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 644	Posted - 2015.08.16 06:14:21 - [173] - Quote Mortlake wrote: Yukimisama wrote: Dude come on, they get evicted out of Null/W-Space often enough, they can't defend themselves against the real alliances when they try, so why keep trying when it's possible to come to high-sec and suicide gank all day and war-dec all day and make billions anyways? **** players of the game killing the young players instead of getting better to hang with the vets where it matters in null, and you think they're 'not' going to whine and cry? They're worse than the new players who don't know any better. I killed a 3 week old player a few weeks ago. Shat my pants. He nearly had me but just as I was about to go down I killed the last of his Venture's drones. Don't talk ** about mercs until you've operated at the deep end of the septic tank. These guys think you go pick fights with the biggest gun you can afford. It is unthinkable to do it another way to them. What were you in, a velator? (As a side note, Tengu and I fought recently in "Ibi"(the plural of ibis?) and I must note that the Ibis is MUCH nicer than it was last time I baited in it. They don't know how much fun a young player has when he kills an older player... Or how much fun it is to win and lose so freely. I read your post and thought about all the times when a noob chased me away with my ass on fire because I showed up too undergunned trying to get a fight. I imagine they just thought you sucked. I love fights like that. I once killed a thorax and cormorant at the same time in a griffin. It was a new player and a 2 year old player. Now, both sucked but I didn't know that when I took the fight. Do you think I really thought I could win that fight? No, I was ready to lose. To these guys who don't try numbnuttery: "the deep end of the septic tank is nice, come on in."
Mike Adoulin Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters 1363	Posted - 2015.08.16 15:24:22 - [174] - Quote Mobadder Thworst wrote: What were you in, a velator? (As a side note, Tengu and I fought recently in "Ibi"(the plural of ibis?) and I must note that the Ibis is MUCH nicer than it was last time I baited in it.... It's that 30% ECM bonus. That little noobship is teh evils..... Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg. Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Mobadder Thworst Noob Farmers 659	Posted - 2015.08.17 05:20:59 - [175] - Quote Tarojan wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Lan Wang wrote: what i mean is wardeccing a corp and forcing them to stay in a station because thats all they feel they can do is not really player freedom, wardecs are removing freedom from a player to benefit another player. sorta thing A war declaration has exactly zero effect on the ability of players to do anything. You can still mine, run missions and incursions and transport goods in exactly the same way as you could while not at war. If players feel that because they are at war they can't undock that restriction is entirely self imposed and as such they can free themselves of it at any time if they so desire. The actual danger faced by people at war is incredibly variable based on who they are a war with, their proximity to that group and other variables, but essentially it just amounts to an increase in risk that needs to be accounted for and mitigated where possible. In situations where players will do nothing but sit docked while at war what is really happening is the player is placing the value of their virtual property above the value of their gameplay: "it's better to not play at all than it is to lose a ship" or corp/alliance leadership making similar decision on the behalf of its members. It's neither the war itself nor the aggressors who are responsible for them remaining docked, they have no control over that. In fact they'd prefer a continuation of activity, generally speaking. It is all a matter of the attitude of the defenders and their willingness to respond to emergent situations in a way that provides them with gameplay. Is there a solution to that? I don't really know if it's actually a problem or even care for that matter. People are welcome to destroy their own game experience by sitting docked in a station for weeks at a time if they want, alternatively they can go join a different corp. You can't argue the current situation is great though surely? I mean if you wanted to violence one of my boats you would have to suicide gank it and concord is a terrible mechanic. If you war decced me, my available reasonable options become dont undock on this character until you stop wasting isk on the war dec or drop corp and make a new one. If you war decc the new one, just go live in an npc corp for a bit. Thats TERRIBLE game play for both of us. What isn't a reasonable option for me, in fact its verging on moronic, is to undock in a venture, a badger or a missioning rattlesnake under your war dec. That would be stupid, I would deserve to be killed and expect to be mocked for it. Nor would it be reasonable for me to undock in a pvp fit cruiser and come look for you. You would annihilate me with your off grid boosters, neutral logi alts and bat phoned allies. The current state of play is that the high sec pvp community has such an apparantly high bar of entry , which the odds stacked so high against the pvers, that those who want a mixed game of pve/pvp are better served dodging war decs and just going to low sec for fun and pew pew. Wouldn't it be so much better if we got rid of concord, war decs and armed pve ships to not be flying coffins if pvped? This is a pvp game right? so why not make ALL ships pvp wether for fight or for flight? There is a good point in this. The barriers to entry into high-second pvp are brought up. I agree they're unreasonably high. If you are just a small corp that's running missions and you want to try pvp, your first try will cost 50 mil and will likely land you a compound wardec against hundreds of wardec vets with better equipment and real skill sets. This hurts everyone. The PVE community is not learning to pvp because their enemies are far too numerous and experienced. The numerous and experienced players are all on the team of whatever sugar daddy promises the most war dec because they just want to shoot something. Sadly, they're bored senseless and often struggling to find a real challenge. The old mechanics were much better balanced. Most war dec corps were tiny... Easier to deal with for their targets. People could dabble in pvp and learn about it because the deck wasn't stacked so hard against the aggressor. Yes, I'm sure there were physically more wardecs... But I think they were more fun, more interactive, and better content. The old mechanics were better for everyone.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24804	Posted - 2015.08.17 11:12:40 - [176] - Quote Mobadder Thworst wrote: There is a good point in this. The barriers to entry into high-second pvp are brought up. I agree they're unreasonably high. If you are just a small corp that's running missions and you want to try pvp, your first try will cost 50 mil and will likely land you a compound wardec against hundreds of wardec vets with better equipment and real skill sets. This hurts everyone. The PVE community is not learning to pvp because their enemies are far too numerous and experienced. The numerous and experienced players are all on the team of whatever sugar daddy promises the most war dec because they just want to shoot something. Sadly, they're bored senseless and often struggling to find a real challenge. The old mechanics were much better balanced. Most war dec corps were tiny... Easier to deal with for their targets. People could dabble in pvp and learn about it because the deck wasn't stacked so hard against the aggressor. Yes, I'm sure there were physically more wardecs... But I think they were more fun, more interactive, and better content. The old mechanics were better for everyone. While I agree with you that there is a good point in the post that you replied to, most of the things that could be seen to be wrong with current wardec mechanics are a case of you reap what you sow. With the culling of the dec shield people went back to dropping to NPC corps as a way of avoidance, which encourages the scattergun approach of wardeccing multiple corps in the hopes of getting some pewpew. On an individual level wardecs became more expensive, which encouraged the small wardec corps to band together and spread the costs. As it currently stands, most defenders, especially the PvE biased and newbie corps among them, have no stake in putting up a fight. Most don't have the knowledge to do so anyway, and seem unwilling to use, or blissfully unaware of, things like the ally mechanic. Final thought. Do any of the wardeccers/merc groups upon wardeccing a newbie or PvE based corp, inform them of the options available to them other than turtling or disbanding, where it doesn't break any contracts to do so? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3051	Posted - 2015.08.17 13:37:49 - [177] - Quote Generally the "Leader" of a "Newbie Corporation" and yes, both of those terms require quotations, aren't actually new themselves and are aware of the game mechanics. The problem with carebears facing war is timeless. They're paranoid, don't trust anyone and have no connections that aren't other carebears. If they want help and aren't the pets of a highsec PVP corp they're probably going to have to pay for their allies, against a group like BAW your options are limited, expensive and questionably effective. Not to mention that they hate to negotiate, don't like spending money and are intensely distrustful of everyone. 90% of the time generic carebear corp/alliance is going to be alone and going for the full duration because of their own nature.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2111	Posted - 2015.08.17 13:49:30 - [178] - Quote I had a long quotenaught that the servers ate, so I'll just reply with this: I 100% believe that scaling wardec fees that financially punish those who are engaged in very lopsided (i.e. large corp vs small corp), very many (more than X number as aggressor), or very long wardecs (i.e. any wardec longer than x number of months) would do wonders for hisec. I think this would make the wardec scene more appealing for newer and/or smaller corps while still leaving them vulnerable and at the same time reign in larger corps who wardec anything that moves while still leaving them the option to do so if they're willing to pay. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3052	Posted - 2015.08.17 13:59:17 - [179] - Quote Scaling cost based on time would be disastrous, it would massively encourage "just dock up until the war ends" reactions. It would also undermine wars that are being fought for actual reasons. It'd incentivize continuously cycling between different groups over actually fighting a war to completion. That's like the exact opposite of better.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14166	Posted - 2015.08.17 14:07:18 - [180] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: I had a long quotenaught that the servers ate, so I'll just reply with this: I 100% believe that scaling wardec fees that financially punish those who are engaged in very lopsided (i.e. large corp vs small corp), very many (more than X number as aggressor), or very long wardecs (i.e. any wardec longer than x number of months) would do wonders for hisec. I think this would make the wardec scene more appealing for newer and/or smaller corps while still leaving them vulnerable and at the same time reign in larger corps who wardec anything that moves while still leaving them the option to do so if they're willing to pay. I would suggest that, so long as wars are completely voluntary due to the dec dodge exploit, that wars do not need to be made any weaker. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2111	Posted - 2015.08.17 14:11:38 - [181] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I would suggest that, so long as wars are completely voluntary due to the dec dodge exploit, that wars do not need to be made any weaker. I agree and I'm open to discussing this as well. I feel like the current mechanic too heavily favors defenders who don't want to fight, but some of the proposals I've read I think are too harsh. I still think you should be able to, just not as easily and consequence-free as you can now. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Zeus Maximo Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1004	Posted - 2015.08.17 14:14:00 - [182] - Quote Capitals in high-sec would probably equate to the disease that plagues the test server. You want to test out the new marauder? Nope, Blap dread. You want to fly the new destroyer? Nope, Archon puts 10 warriors on you. The only real positive that I see coming from dreads in high-sec would be to take out poco's and pos's. CCP is already one step ahead of us though by replacing pos's entirely. #Entosis #JoveWand "It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus." U-MAD Membership Recruitment PoH Corporation Recruitment
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3052	Posted - 2015.08.17 14:20:25 - [183] - Quote Can we juse replace guns and RR with entosis links already? Want a ship killed? Entosis it, it goes into reinforced mode for 5 minutes, when it comes out there is a entosis tug of war between the two fleets, if the hostile fleet wins the ship is destroyed. Much easier than all this "shooting guns at the thing you want to blow up" nonsense.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2111	Posted - 2015.08.17 14:24:40 - [184] - Quote Zeus Maximo wrote: Capitals in high-sec would probably equate to the disease that plagues the test server. You want to test out the new marauder? Nope, Blap dread. You want to fly the new destroyer? Nope, Archon puts 10 warriors on you. The only real positive that I see coming from dreads in high-sec would be to take out poco's and pos's. CCP is already one step ahead of us though by replacing pos's entirely. #Entosis #JoveWand I agree that unlimited capitals everywhere in hisec would be a bad thing for a long list of reasons that I won't get into here. I'm not convinced that allowing caps into parts of hisec under limited circumstances is entirely bad. I've proposed an idea for this and see pros and cons to it; I'm not sure yet which comes out on top. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24811	Posted - 2015.08.17 14:55:40 - [185] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Generally the "Leader" of a "Newbie Corporation" and yes, both of those terms require quotations, aren't actually new themselves and are aware of the game mechanics. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt for the purposes of the post, and you're right they should be in quotations. Quote: The problem with carebears facing war is timeless. They're paranoid, don't trust anyone and have no connections that aren't other carebears. If they want help and aren't the pets of a highsec PVP corp they're probably going to have to pay for their allies, against a group like BAW your options are limited, expensive and questionably effective. Not to mention that they hate to negotiate, don't like spending money and are intensely distrustful of everyone. 90% of the time generic carebear corp/alliance is going to be alone and going for the full duration because of their own nature. As I said, they reap what they sow. They go "waaahh wardec" yet refuse to help themselves, then wonder why they're continuously wardecced. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2111	Posted - 2015.08.17 14:57:26 - [186] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Can we juse replace guns and RR with entosis links already? Want a ship killed? Entosis it, it goes into reinforced mode for 5 minutes, when it comes out there is a entosis tug of war between the two fleets, if the hostile fleet wins the ship is destroyed. Much easier than all this "shooting guns at the thing you want to blow up" nonsense. Obligatory "Welcome to Entosis Online". Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14168	Posted - 2015.08.17 15:32:54 - [187] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I would suggest that, so long as wars are completely voluntary due to the dec dodge exploit, that wars do not need to be made any weaker. I agree and I'm open to discussing this as well. I feel like the current mechanic too heavily favors defenders who don't want to fight, but some of the proposals I've read I think are too harsh. I still think you should be able to, just not as easily and consequence-free as you can now. EDIT: Say, for sake of argument, make it so that after a war is declared, corp members gain a mandatory 48 hour cooldown in order to leave corp. This would be based on when the player first attempts to leave corp (rather like a director or someone with roles), not when the war starts. This would guarantee aggressors at least 24 hours of corp membership while still leaving players able to leave the corp if they choose. Directors or those with roles could drop them immediately upon wardec notification, but wouldn't be able to leave until both the 24 hour role cooldown and the 48 hour war cooldown have passed. My perspective on the matter remains unchanged. The problem is incentives, and the ability to have your cake and eat it too by having the best of NPC corps and player corps at the same time. This devalues both combat oriented gameplay and entrenching a social structure, neither of which being so devalued is good for the game. If we finally address the sacred cow and nerf NPC corps, then player corps become something worth fighting for. A large part of the problem right now is that it is simply not worthwhile to fight, and that the tools for actively not fighting are distinctly superior to literally everything else in the mechanic. Would these suggestions destroy the typical highsec corp as we know it? Yes, but that's not just a good thing, it's a great thing. We'd be incentivizing balanced corps who actually defend themselves and play the game, and that's what EVE needs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2112	Posted - 2015.08.17 15:44:12 - [188] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: My perspective on the matter remains unchanged. I posted a few thoughts in that thread just recently. I think you and I are of similar mind on the topic even if we may have different approaches. (I really like some of your ideas though.) To fix wardecs, I think you need to start with the fees, but then you need to finish with corps being worth fighting for. Otherwise, nothing will change except how much wardecs cost. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Marlin Spikes EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 229	Posted - 2015.08.20 11:45:44 - [189] - Quote Well said Kaarous. It's almost hard to believe this insight came from code...lol Bombers Rule!!!
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 14260	Posted - 2015.08.20 11:48:23 - [190] - Quote Marlin Spikes wrote: Well said Kaarous. It's almost hard to believe this insight came from code...lol I've been saying that **** since well before I ever joined CODE. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.



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