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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
305
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Posted - 2015.08.14 22:37:56 -
[211] - Quote
well I guess only w-space has consequences now. Every type of space has its safety valve to prevent mass unsubbing. F@$k W-space! <- appears to be the mantra.
Nerf'd API data Nerf'd rage rolling statics via distant spawning based on mass Nerf'd null sec access to W-space and from W-space
Now citadels come into w-space Pre-nerf'd. Lovely. Do we get something to make up for that EXTRA downside? Its like viagra that guarantees you a priapism. Your embarrassing hard on will always last more than 4 hours and guarantee a trip to the emergency room - every time you take it!
yeah really great. Its like making a medication where the side effects are a feature and you are trying to encourage them! |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
139
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 23:50:16 -
[212] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: ................................
Asset safety already exists everywhere but WH Space. Thus if you want people to use the new structures and not avoid them like most people avoid putting items into POS, you have to keep that functionality. If assets are lost in a Citadel, people will simply not use them or only put the bare minimum into them, resulting in a poorer game experience for everyone.
Does it? I dont think so - we are talking about POS successors here and when ever or where ever you destroy a POS it drops its contents.
Now suddenly fairies appear out of nowhere - and under the eyes and guns of the victorious armada they carry all the valuables away to a save place.
Talking about a minimum of inner logic?
I feel thats a completely different issue than the "safety" in NPC stations and Outposts that are completely indisdructable by design. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2382
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:05:18 -
[213] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Does it? I dont think so - we are talking about POS successors here and when ever or where ever you destroy a POS it drops its contents. Now suddenly fairies appear out of nowhere - and under the eyes and guns of the victorious armada they carry all the valuables away to a save place. Talking about a minimum of inner logic? I feel thats a completely different issue than the "safety" in NPC stations and Outposts that are completely indestructible by design. No, Citadels are also a long term replacement to Outposts, and intended to be desirable above living in NPC stations also. So that item safety already does exist. |
Grorious Reader
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:12:28 -
[214] - Quote
"dev blog" wrote:All players that were docked in the structure are podded. Mrs. Madeleine Truffade loses her implants and is moved to her medical home station, Duripant VII GÇô Moon 6 GÇô Federal Navy Academy. All items located in personal hangars are saved for their owners to claim. This includes MadeleineGÇÖs Megathron. A notification will be sent to Madeleine explaining what happened.
As others have stated, this is an objectively terrible idea. Nobody will ever log off in a citadel if this is the case. They will log off in space in a ship, just like they currently do when using a POS. It would be stupid not to.
Here are other solutions I think are reasonable.
- The pod (implants in tact) and the active ship move to the nearest station, just like the assets.
- The pod and the active ship (if any) are spawned at a random point in space when the player logs back in. Similar to what would happen if they logged off in space.
It would also be stupid to dock and store a super-cap in an XL citadel, as only a handful of alliances in the game would have the resources to lose a significant number of ships and assets (especially super-caps) for 5 days and then build another XL citadel in the same contested system, and defend it without any of the lost ships, just to get those assets back. In most cases the super-caps would just be lost.
Maybe when you reclaim a super-cap the game could just spawn it at a random point in system and warp it to within range of the nearest structure's invulnerability link, and hold it there until somebody boards it. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
716
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:24:55 -
[215] - Quote
having people podded on citadel destruction is foolish. Cant take a vacation? got to stay on top of the game all the time or risk loss of implants etc? Ofc the solution is to not log off in the citadel, but then players are not actually using citadels - in fact these game mechanics will encourage folk not to use citadels at all.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Max Fubarticus
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:27:40 -
[216] - Quote
Sabastian Cerabiam wrote:I am more worried about the release timeline then compensation. I'm sure there is plenty of individuals/corps/alliances that are expanding and looking to drop stations/pos's. Anyone that is smart is holding off doing this but that has drawbacks as well.
This is a very valid point considering that any successful corp / alliance conducts long range planning activities. I urge the Devs / CSM to consider the impact that the release timeline has.
1. From an indy / manufacturing aspect, will the skill for outpost construction suffice? Will additional skill sets be added or existing skill levels need further training? Any additional skill books required available with sufficient lead time that allows a character to be prepared for the required changes?
2. Will those who have heavily invested in the basic outpost infrastructure BPO / BPC's have these converted or reimbursed in some fashion.
I know some of these have queries appear redundant, but I can't emphasize enough the importance of delivering a well thought out and properly prioritized package to the player base that permits informed and wise decisions. Looking forward to the possibilities |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
716
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:27:50 -
[217] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:well I guess only w-space has consequences now. Every type of space has its safety valve to prevent mass unsubbing. F@$k W-space! <- appears to be the mantra.
Nerf'd API data Nerf'd rage rolling statics via distant spawning based on mass Nerf'd null sec access to W-space and from W-space
Now citadels come into w-space Pre-nerf'd. Lovely. Do we get something to make up for that EXTRA downside? Its like viagra that guarantees you a priapism. Your embarrassing hard on will always last more than 4 hours and guarantee a trip to the emergency room - every time you take it!
yeah really great. Its like making a medication where the side effects are a feature and you are trying to encourage them!
Relax. No one will shoot citadel's in wh because whats the point? No player loot - check. Can be anchored anywhere - check. System full of dead citadels littering all of space - double check.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
716
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:30:31 -
[218] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote: ................................
Asset safety already exists everywhere but WH Space. Thus if you want people to use the new structures and not avoid them like most people avoid putting items into POS, you have to keep that functionality. If assets are lost in a Citadel, people will simply not use them or only put the bare minimum into them, resulting in a poorer game experience for everyone.
Does it? I dont think so - we are talking about POS successors here and when ever or where ever you destroy a POS it drops its contents. Now suddenly fairies appear out of nowhere - and under the eyes and guns of the victorious armada they carry all the valuables away to a save place. Talking about a minimum of inner logic? I feel thats a completely different issue than the "safety" in NPC stations and Outposts that are completely indisdructable by design.
CCP used to be more circumspect with the immersion breaks. Now magic lights and insta space fedex are popping up all over the place.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Kel hound
The Scope Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 00:51:07 -
[219] - Quote
beakerax wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:I'm not making sov my only consideration. I'm not sure what you're saying. I didn't mean you specifically, I meant for balancing in general. Citadels are meant to replace both starbases and outposts, right? But with the asset-safety outlined here, smaller citadels don't behave like starbases, they behave like mini-outposts that can be set up anywhere. I can see that smaller groups in sov null might need something like this in order to viably live in their own space. For everyone else though, this is a fairly significant change in starbase looting mechanics that was not brought on by anything in particular.
Actually not a lot changes for the attacker. Most starbase structures took any loot with them to a fiery grave when they blew up, so the only difference really is no more blueprints and no more ships from SMA's. Also keep in mind that these are also literally serving as outposts of any size. You are supposed to be able to configure citadels to have a very wide array of access, all the way up to public docking rights. What warm blooded player with more than 2 brain cells to rub together is going to want to dock, let alone store goods at, a citadel which could eject all their **** if it is blown up or unanchored.
Like it or not, EVE does need at least some safe spaces. You cannot reasonably expect people to be 100% on their guard 100% of the time or else they get taken for a ride to awox-town. If you think that EVE should be 100% pvp 100% of the time then we go back to the argument of everyone else should be making stupid choices so you can prey on them. Which is just as stupid as expecting nothing bad to ever happen to you in EVE.
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Max Fubarticus
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:57:06 -
[220] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Justin Cody wrote:well I guess only w-space has consequences now. Every type of space has its safety valve to prevent mass unsubbing. F@$k W-space! <- appears to be the mantra.
Nerf'd API data Nerf'd rage rolling statics via distant spawning based on mass Nerf'd null sec access to W-space and from W-space
Now citadels come into w-space Pre-nerf'd. Lovely. Do we get something to make up for that EXTRA downside? Its like viagra that guarantees you a priapism. Your embarrassing hard on will always last more than 4 hours and guarantee a trip to the emergency room - every time you take it!
yeah really great. Its like making a medication where the side effects are a feature and you are trying to encourage them! Relax. No one will shoot citadel's in wh because whats the point? No player loot - check. Can be anchored anywhere - check. System full of dead citadels littering all of space - double check.
I am inclined to agree. First, one must dispel the myth of "safe" in any aspect of Eve. Truth... Nothing is safe! Secondly, there would appear to be a "minority" group of WH dwellers who essentially want to be isolationist and reap the many benefits of WH life without having to exert any extra effort to defend their home. WH space was never designed from its inception to be easy. To be fair though, the Devs / CSM need to spend some extra time considering how the Citadel mechanics affect the unique mechanics and associated game play that goes with WH life. It goes without saying that WH dwellers and their efforts are inexplicably linked to our Eve economy ( as is all sectors of Eve space ) and we don't need to go through another cycle of " this is broke " ( like sov ) |
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Max Fubarticus
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.08.15 01:20:00 -
[221] - Quote
[/quote]I disagree with the structure auto blowing up at the end of the last reinforced cycle, just seems arbitrary. I say reduce the shields to 0% and make the attackers actually use ammo.[/quote] Agreed! Although I don't much care for the Entosis link to begin with. I would be willing to compromise and have the last cycle require some actual combat and not some arbitrary "Borg monkey mind-meld assimilation" module. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
718
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 01:52:58 -
[222] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Orm Magnustat wrote:All this asset safety nonsense is a major change of paradigm for this game.
Just some pull out of he "nowhere" crap that feels totally out of place with the game i once started. Realistical risk simulation ??? - lol
The longer i see this generation of devs tottering around the more angry i get. I-¦ve lost enough ingame friends to their out of touch tinkering with game mechanics and core concepts during this last year!!
Be it their diletant fiddling with idustry concepts (back then at least the UI changes were good) up to the new map (that you presented to us with practically unusable scanning mechanics) or the totally useless overhaul of icons - to name some of the lesser points. Fozzie sov in itself would more fit for a completely different game instead of implanting it here and with your new structures .... most of all i see a loss of funtionaltiy and immersion.
Asset safety is just the logical next step - and they probably dont even see that they give up on some of their core USP.
Asset safety already exists everywhere but WH Space. Thus if you want people to use the new structures and not avoid them like most people avoid putting items into POS, you have to keep that functionality. If assets are lost in a Citadel, people will simply not use them or only put the bare minimum into them, resulting in a poorer game experience for everyone.
Pos are used all over the place outside of wh despite the risk of assets loss. This new system would be fine - a slight improvement over the current situation - if it was limited to stations, but make poses asset immune everywhere is a terrible idea
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
139
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 01:57:58 -
[223] - Quote
Max Fubarticus wrote:................WH space was never designed from its inception to be easy. To be fair though, the Devs / CSM need to spend some extra time considering how the Citadel mechanics affect the unique mechanics and associated game play that goes with WH life. It goes without saying that WH dwellers and their efforts are inexplicably linked to our Eve economy ( as is all sectors of Eve space ) and we don't need to go through another cycle of " this is broke " ( like sov )
Its funny, to my perception w-space seems the only portion of this universe that actually worked - at least it produced the least amount of complaints, while null was going on about "broken sov-gameplay" and hisec groaned about ganker-safety (in one way or another).
Ironically CCP seems to do its best to break this last bastion of actually satisfied customers ....... |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
719
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 02:05:27 -
[224] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote:The whole point of pos bashing is to get to the player goodies inside. Here's the thing though, is it really? Looking at the POS's I've shot in the last few months, all but a few of them have been moon mining POS's (one was a safe tower for gatecampers), which means we were shooting them to remove the owner and take control of the minerals, not steal their stuffs. Even when I lived in lowsec we bashed towers for moon mining. Citadels are also replacing outposts, and why do people shoot Outposts? Not to steal the stuff, the best they can do is lock the owners out and hope or a firesale. People shoot outposts to evict the former owners, or as a place to live because the former owner isn't there. So while people will no longer be able to shoot offline SMAs/CHAs and hope for a loot pinata, how often did they really happen outside of wormholes? I haven't kept any ships in a POS (except one mining barge and T1 hauler) since I moved out of wormholes a year or two ago. Wormholes can be balanced a bit differently with personal assets dropping as loot, and they already are already being balanced differently for citadels since they cannot have assets ~transported~ to NPC space in the event of losing a citadel.
The point is - having the same one size fit all approach to both poses and stations is silly. They serve distinct and different functions. The new pos 2.0 should remain destructible. The new station 2.0 - well having magic space fedex is an improvement and provides some penalty for losing the station, without being overly abusive.
Also the entrosis link has proven to be a terrible mechanic - less fun and more tedious than what it replaced. If ccp is hell bent on including the entrosis link it should be as an alternative to a structure grind without replacing it. If folk want to grind a structure because they have the dps and its quicker - why shouldnt they be able to? After all shooting things and space explosions is the whole point of the game.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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M1k3y Koontz
Respawn Disabled Initiative Mercenaries
781
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Posted - 2015.08.15 02:19:19 -
[225] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Max Fubarticus wrote:................WH space was never designed from its inception to be easy. To be fair though, the Devs / CSM need to spend some extra time considering how the Citadel mechanics affect the unique mechanics and associated game play that goes with WH life. It goes without saying that WH dwellers and their efforts are inexplicably linked to our Eve economy ( as is all sectors of Eve space ) and we don't need to go through another cycle of " this is broke " ( like sov ) Its funny, to my perception w-space seems the only portion of this universe that actually worked - at least it produced the least amount of complaints, while null was going on about "broken sov-gameplay" and hisec groaned about ganker-safety (in one way or another ). Ironically CCP seems to do its best to break this last bastion of actually satisfied customers .......
The wormholers seem to keep their complaints to the wormhole subforum nowadays. 'Tis a silly place.
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:If folk want to grind a structure because they have the dps and its quicker - why shouldnt they be able to? After all shooting things and space explosions is the whole point of the game.
Because massive ******* blobs of supercapitals, remnants of another age.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Beta Maoye
72
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 02:39:29 -
[226] - Quote
I don't know why dev feel safe in Citadel. I feel safe in NPC station. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2694
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 04:13:38 -
[227] - Quote
Maybe I missed it, but is there a way to get a docked super from a destroyed citadel back without plopping down a second XL citadel? |
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two Reckoning Star Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 07:31:44 -
[228] - Quote
I have mixed feelings about the citadels after reading the blogs. Null sec gets one deal, wh has another (similar mechanic but completely different environment). Neither have balance imo.
I still have assets somewhere in null, just collecting dust, not sure when and if I will recover any of it, but with the new structures I would just have them sit at an npc station, with faster recovery? Seems like a buff for personal assets. Don't care for null much but the system is clear and I get it.
However......
I live in a WH, every day could be the day someone comes knocking. With POS there are ships that are ready to be sacrificed, anything of value just sits in a cargo bay ready to cloak up when the time comes.
Citadels will only work for item safety if I have another one up and running in the system, so it looks like nothing will change for me really? Ships will get sacrificed still, except now they just float in space for a few days?
Then what happens? Did I miss something?
If I don't have a citadel in the system they will eventually show up in a can that can be scanned? (would that mean that going from random stuff that drops now its all if there is no citadel to deliver to in the wh?)
How long do I have the option to select a target location in a WH? When does the timer start? When does it end?
Too many devils in the details still not known. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3963
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 11:51:58 -
[229] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Orm Magnustat wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote: ................................
Asset safety already exists everywhere but WH Space. Thus if you want people to use the new structures and not avoid them like most people avoid putting items into POS, you have to keep that functionality. If assets are lost in a Citadel, people will simply not use them or only put the bare minimum into them, resulting in a poorer game experience for everyone.
Does it? I dont think so - we are talking about POS successors here and when ever or where ever you destroy a POS it drops its contents. Now suddenly fairies appear out of nowhere - and under the eyes and guns of the victorious armada they carry all the valuables away to a save place. Talking about a minimum of inner logic? I feel thats a completely different issue than the "safety" in NPC stations and Outposts that are completely indisdructable by design. CCP used to be more circumspect with the immersion breaks. Now magic lights and insta space fedex are popping up all over the place. They should just make a magic space wizard and be done with any pretense of realism
The immersion break coul be fixed in the way I suggested above (NPC salvage ships, factually invulnerable).
The whole point is that without asset safety the new structures would be dead on arrival, but for wormhole space, which is a small sliver of the demographics.
Even the "podded while offline" death mechanic is plain too stupid for the average player to agree to it and would just call for never login off from a Citadel.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
425
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 12:15:22 -
[230] - Quote
Wow didn't realize people are soo attached to their pods. But agree, since your invulnerable logged of in space, its stupid that you would be vulnerable in this case.
Overall the idea of asset safety is a good idea. I even like the current idea in WH space. Since i do still lose all my stuff if i get evicted. But perhaps some sort of drop would be in order if it can't get delivered.
Overall however looking forward to deploying these sooner rather than later.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer Two Drink Minimum
377
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Posted - 2015.08.15 13:11:47 -
[231] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:How about this.
Your outpost dies, you lose your **** like with a POS. Your outpost dies, and you are in whatever you logged off in like with a POS.
People still get loot. People still keep one ship.
And we all get new functionalities without item risk changes. Except these are also meant to take over from Null outposts long term and prove to be more desirable than NPC Station living. So now compare the current functions to the asset safety involved in those cases. And think some more.
If it's the only option people will build them.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
142
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Posted - 2015.08.15 15:09:44 -
[232] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
......................................................
The immersion break coul be fixed in the way I suggested above (NPC salvage ships, factually invulnerable).
The whole point is that without asset safety the new structures would be dead on arrival, but for wormhole space, which is a small sliver of the demographics.
Even the "podded while offline" death mechanic is plain too stupid for the average player to agree to it and would just call for never login off from a Citadel.
I see where you come from with looting NPCs and all, yes you can add this narrative and say it works - personally I still feel it would be a major change away from the game i know and its inner logic.
As you put it the asset safety is "needed" indeed - but its only needed cause CCP decided to lump together the formerly completely different entities of POS and Outpost
For a long time people have asked for some minor repairs on POS mechanics and rights management, but what do we get? CCP just decides to completely abolish the whole concept and replace it with something entirely different .... and even drag the outposts into this halfbaked mess.
In the end a lot of variety and flexibility gets discontinued in this universe to be replaced by some unified halfbaked generic bs structure concept (that actually isnt anything more than a slightly modified ripoff of their general ship model).
This super simplifying approach surely will skyrocked the "sense of wonder" and longterm fascination within the old and new playerbase .... (do i need to add the sarcasm flags here?) |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
234
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Posted - 2015.08.15 15:52:41 -
[233] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
......................................................
The immersion break coul be fixed in the way I suggested above (NPC salvage ships, factually invulnerable).
The whole point is that without asset safety the new structures would be dead on arrival, but for wormhole space, which is a small sliver of the demographics.
Even the "podded while offline" death mechanic is plain too stupid for the average player to agree to it and would just call for never login off from a Citadel.
I see where you come from with looting NPCs and all, yes you can add this narrative and say it works - personally I still feel it would be a major change away from the game i know and its inner logic. As you put it the asset safety is "needed" indeed - but its only needed cause CCP decided to lump together the formerly completely different entities of POS and Outpost For a long time people have asked for some minor repairs on POS mechanics and rights management, but what do we get? CCP just decides to completely abolish the whole concept and replace it with something entirely different .... and even drag the outposts into this halfbaked mess. In the end a lot of variety and flexibility gets discontinued in this universe to be replaced by some unified halfbaked generic bs structure concept (that actually isnt anything more than a slightly modified ripoff of their general ship model). This super simplifying approach surely will skyrocked the "sense of wonder" and longterm fascination within the old and new playerbase .... (do i need to add the sarcasm flags here?)
i could not say it better |
Neo Digital
True Space Fearless
11
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Posted - 2015.08.15 16:37:09 -
[234] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:How come the entosis link causes the structure to explode?
Why not have it so that a doomsday is required to blow the structure up at the end of the final reinforcement?
You know, a reason for capital ships to exist in the game and everything?
I would think that the entosis link would push the structure into "Critical Vulnerability" which would then require lots of firepower to destroy it. So either a wrecking ball or a few doomsday strikes.
I agree with this completely. Entosis link being a mind-machine link, its guaranteed hacking capability is one thing, but the idea of it turning an object into a wreck would be more suitable for a game called Magic Online.
Regarding this magic module's guaranteed capabilities, there should be a module for citadels that counteracts entosis operation locally. i.e. Redundant Computer Array or off grid (in networking sense) Secondary Control Mainframe. Citadels fitted with such electronic resilience modules would have drastically increased/decreased entosis capture/defense times. As a penalty for fitting defensive modules, citadels could have their other services affected in a negative way, i.e. slow production, no refinery, etc.
o7
~Neo Digital
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1580
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 16:40:20 -
[235] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Maybe I missed it, but is there a way to get a docked super from a destroyed citadel back without plopping down a second XL citadel?
Not as far as I can tell.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Eileen Black
EVE University Ivy League
10
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:18:14 -
[236] - Quote
How to abuse this in WH space:
1. Build some carriers and dreads in a C4 WH, 2. Destroy your outpost(probably unrigged) 3. Wait for new inhabitants to move in, 4. Watch them get richer and richer, 5. Rebuild outpost, transfer assets, 6. Surprise, now this WH has waaaay too much BSes/capitals to be allowed under normal circumstances.
Bad idea for WHs.
Suggestion: 1. Outposts have personal hangars of *limited* size, which get sent to deep space and await the owner(or a person this owner gives permission) to retrieve them, 2. All other items drop with standard drop rate. 3. Players docked and in a ship are sent into deep space upon outpost destruction, after logging in they wake up in the ship, which is damaged with random armor/hull damage of 0-99%; with bias for higher damage for bigger ships.(This is emergency kind of a microjump)
No magical transportation, no "bag of holding" titan transportation, incentive to blow up stuff and loot it. Everyone wins :P |
Soleil Fournier
Ultimatum. The Bastion
45
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Posted - 2015.08.15 23:27:15 -
[237] - Quote
If I dock a super in a citadel, and that citadel is destroyed, the super then enters purgatory until xfered to another XL Citadel within the same system.
Unfortunately, there will not always be a 2nd XL citadel in the same system (and if there is it will likely be under assault). And since we lost the fight, we won't be building a 2nd citadel to xfer supers to. This means I will not be able to access my super at all, which is really bad.
So I'd never log off with a super docked in a citadel.
We need another option, such as the super being delivered to a safe spot in the same system rather than a citadel. |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
652
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 23:44:53 -
[238] - Quote
Soleil Fournier wrote:If I dock a super in a citadel, and that citadel is destroyed, the super then enters purgatory until xfered to another XL Citadel within the same system.
Unfortunately, there will not always be a 2nd XL citadel in the same system (and if there is it will likely be under assault). And since we lost the fight, we won't be building a 2nd citadel to xfer supers to. This means I will not be able to access my super at all, which is really bad.
So I'd never log off with a super docked in a citadel.
We need another option, such as the super being delivered to a safe spot in the same system rather than a citadel.
This is basically what I brought up in the thread on mooring. It's hard to get the balance right when it comes to supercaps and risk; too far one way and their pilots will never use these new structures, too far the other and it's not really EVE. I think the trick lies in making things largely safe, but still leaving a window for savvy opponents to nail their target:
xttz wrote:Let's say a Nyx is moored at a structure, allowing the pilot to enjoy the use of ships other than a space coffin. An opposing alliance attacks and manages to destroy the structure before the owner can return to it. Instead of giving away such a valuable prize and the owner losing everything, the Nyx activates an automated security system*. On destruction of the attached structure the ship automatically overcharges and activates its jump drive (ignoring any nearby bubbles), vanishes to a safe location and cloaks up. Of course finding a safe location and re-establishing contact with the proper owner is risky, and may take time (likely several days). In order to board the ship again the owner has to wait a random period, then perform some kind of mini-quest to locate his auto-piloted hull. Once found, there would be a short vulnerability period (2-3mins) as the vessel repairs and re-calibrates itself from the emergency jump. Once this is successfully completed, the ship can be used again as normal.
This introduces a small element of risk to losing structures, without the all-or-nothing aspect for people with ~100bn isk hulls. The attacker denies the owner use of a powerful ship for a period of time, and has an opportunity to kill it if they pay very careful attention to the area later. The owner has a decent chance to get their ship back in the event of a disaster, especially if they have friends to help recover it.
Edit: the same mechanic can be used against corp thefts. If a mooring structure is tampered with for whatever reason (perhaps the owning corp wants to pull it down, perhaps someone is misusing their roles), the ship activates its security system in the same way. This gives some peace of mind for the owner.
*if affordable cars can have security systems to prevent theft, why can't futuristic space flagships? |
Ramman K'arojic
Lone Star Warriors Yulai Federation
36
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Posted - 2015.08.16 00:59:42 -
[239] - Quote
Re: Quote:Are automatically delivered as a single package which has to be opened, like courier contract plastic wraps. This is done not to overwhelm, confuse or mix items that are being delivered with ones already in place in the hangar.
Please separate each hanger into a separate package at a minimum. Extending the scenario if I have 50 containers (eg 1 for each corp member) within a single hanger will I be able to determine what was is in each ? So I can give there stuff back quickly
Please make it all possible; the last thing I want to do after I have had all my stuff relocated is fight internally over who's stack of thorax's was who's.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1582
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Posted - 2015.08.16 07:49:41 -
[240] - Quote
I've been thinking about this for the past few days. I probably shouldn't bother even providing more feedback, but these are some things to consider and this is more how I would do it:
1. I read the Dev Blogs several times. The word "killmail" appears once in the I feel safe in Citadel City devblog, but only to say that we all love them. It does not appear at all in the Citadels, sieges, and you [Oxford comma added because I am not a peasant, but am a pedant]. CCP has not stated how kill mails will work. Or who will get them. Or what information they will show. I do not consider myself driven by kill mails, but let's be honest: We all like them. If we are not going to be able to scoop 50% of the possessions up from the wreck, we should at least get a kill mail identifying what was destroyed and what was impounded. And somehow, everyone involved in the fight should get that kill mail - not just the dude with the Entosis. I'll be honest, I'm really quite shocked that CCP has omitted to fundamental part of what drives Eve players.
2. As I have mentioned elsewhere on these forums, destruction should involve actually shooting weapons. My post from back in March is still remarkably on point: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5613421#post5613421
I am okay with Entosis as a means of changing ownership of a structure, but asset destruction should come from people shooting at the structure. Preferably with Dreadnoughts.
3. As mentioned in paragraph 2, I would like to see Dreadnoughts required to actually destroy the structure. Ideally the system would be designed to require more than one siege cycle - no matter how many you bring. The way I see it, each structure should have three layers - shield, armor, and structure. Average DPS for a Dreadnought is about 10,000. Multiply that by 5 minutes. Adjust based on size/value of the structure - you want the attacker to commit some significant percentage of a structure's value to the field in order to destroy it quickly - it should take more commitment to destroy an XL structure than a medium structure. So, hypothetically, the shield layer on an XL Citadel could be destroyed by 25 Dreadnoughts in five minutes. Between each layer, there is a 2.5 minute reinforcement timer. Thus, in something like twenty minutes, 25 Dreadnoughts could destroy an XL structure. If someone wanted to bring more ships or fire Doomsday Devices at it to speed it up further, they could do that as well, but you would still have a minimum time on the field, and you would be making a larger commitment. The defender could also show up and attempt to save the structure.
4. Once you make it so that the attacker has to at least commit some serious firepower on the field in order to destroy the structures, then you can get rid of the stupid safety mechanics. You can also now properly reward the attacker for bringing the pain to the fight. If a structure dies, it becomes an indestructible wreck. That wreck contains 50% of ALL the stuff in the structure - except for the structure's rigs.
5. One way to then add some more depth to it is as follows: Each indestructible wreck has a number of salvageable nodes on it. Each node contains one player's stuff (no name on the node). People can now salvage each node to unlock stuff from it. Thus, someone might salvage my ship hangar node to find that I have a Nyx in it. Another might find that his node contains only a rookie ship. People close enough can now loot all the stuff stored in that hangar.
6. As the salvagers cut through the scrap metal, their bays gradually fill up with metal scraps, salvage, and parts from the structure itself. To make it more interesting for them, and add an element of skill, there is a salvaging minigame, which looks like cutting through different parts of a wrecked space station to find the storage areas, living quarters, ship hangars, fuel depots, etc within each node. Players would learn to optimize their path, trying to avoid cutting through heavily armored areas to find easier pathways into the lucrative spots. There could be parts you want to avoid, like cutting into the chemical storage plant or nuclear reactor on the station, which would at least damage/blow up your salvaging ship and others very close to it. Players learn to recognize what different parts of the node look like - chewing on some parts is more lucrative than others. Some parts of the node will be more likely to contain cargo, other parts, ships, etc. The game would be continuous and affected by the other players (i.e. I am racing my friends to find the best deposits). Someone else who comes along later can see that 50% of the nodes have been salvaged. The wreck remains in space until it all the nodes have been completely salvaged.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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