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Wesley Walker Hedion University	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:17:00 - [181] Edited by: Wesley Walker on 10/12/2006 20:20:08 Edited by: Wesley Walker on 10/12/2006 20:18:04 W000t another one of these grandiose BoB "ascn are teh d00med" threads. Sweet. Looks like it was Dians turn to start it this week (link doesnt work to locked thread, oh well basically in the last BoB thread ET said "omg, newbolarim, i thought that you are the only ceo from bob who bring it on battlefield, not on forums." and then some CELES guy replied "Think they switch between the bob leaders to post stuff like this every sunday. Guess it was thols turn this sunday") So true, so true Its not a bad one this, it has the requisite pretentious thread title that gives not too much away (like "The Pendulum" and "The Precipice" and so on) but it lacks all the fear references that are the mark of a really good BoB thread. Its better than the Precipice thread so far, so I score it a 4/10. To improve it needs more NP posts and perhaps some more short sentence response from DBP, I have seen one or two so far but I would like to think we could get three or four at least before its closed. edit: in all seriousness, I see there is a new one every Sunday, do you have a TS meeting around lunchtime to run through thread titles, possible topics and stance or so on, or is each leader trusted to "bring it" and left to their own devices?
Shinjuro Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:19:00 - [182] I will be straight up honest. I was one of the many that said there is no way anyone will win in this war. Quoting myself, "The lag will overcome, and in the end both BoB and ASCN will be still here." Well now it has become apparent that I (and much of the eve community) were very wrong. ASCN has been getting the crap kicked out of them. Personally I never liked ASCN or BoB (surprise there eh.) But the fact remains simple: ASCN you are done. And about time too.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:20:00 - [183] Originally by: Slowboat Edited by: Slowboat on 10/12/2006 20:13:13 Originally by: DB Preacher hmm, interesting, you can't deal with us yourself so you'll cry for anything to come and save your butts. Where were you when any other alliance in the game was losing something? Oh yeah, carebearing. dbp Interesting you should say that DB since BOB has always claimed they don't need help in taking ASCN out yet you have been seen working with EXE, Dark Rising and now M8's. Load of rubbish really. edit: Oh wait, let's not forget COIN members in PS and Dark and Light and yada yada ad nauseum. But wait! BOB doesn't need help cry? We have corporations eager to take over the space of ASCN. I look forward to seeing them utilise all the stations that ASCN have put up for us. Once you are out of Feth, we have a long list of corporations already lined up to come in there too. So was there a point to your complaining? It doesn't matter if it's us, us and a thousand other corps, or us and the rest of eve. You still lose. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Wesley Walker Hedion University	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:24:00 - [184] Originally by: DB Preacher cry? We have corporations eager to take over the space of ASCN. I look forward to seeing them utilise all the stations that ASCN have put up for us. Once you are out of Feth, we have a long list of corporations already lined up to come in there too. So was there a point to your complaining? It doesn't matter if it's us, us and a thousand other corps, or us and the rest of eve. You still lose. dbp Hmmm there are some good short sentences here (some only a single word, which is brilliant) but then you spoil it by having some two liners. Also, in the fourth paragraph i think you meant Impass there, not Feyth, not really sure, could you take a look at it again and maybe trim some down a bit for us fans? Thanks.
Dracorimus Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:25:00 - [185] You really think we just shoot people to win wars.... See that word war, means a lot, not just pew pew, it consists of many different core elements of which we try and utilise as many as possible. You dont see in wars people saying "Yo, we shot more of you, we win" no ofc you dont. You got suckered to bad for you. Excuse me whilst I have a chuckle - Ferocious FeAr > bob are****got pussies Admiral Goberius > taking advantages of bugs again? /me applauds
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:27:00 - [186] Originally by: Moghydin 1) after putting pos in AZN BoB failed to make any real progress. Personally, I would call more than 2000 kills in one week progress This include some dread kills which is always a nice thing to wake up to (especially when it as here was done by a wastly outnumbered BoB fleet). It also includes us doing exactly whatever we want in your CAPITAL without you interfering!!! Yeah, I'd definitely call it good progress in just a week My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Rift Scorn Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:28:00 - [187] This is war. You don't want to rally and face off in a nice organized fight, you want to sneak up behind your enemy after he's coming out the pub and smack him over the back of the head with a blunt instrument. All is fair in love and war indeed. As for the accusations of meta-gaming, whatever the hell thats actually meant to mean, account hacking, purchasing accounts through OOG means, and other dubious consipracy theories that are about as grounded as the Dylan Avery consipracy (you lot should get together btw, it would source me almost endless amusment). Quite simply; it isn't true. We have not used anything that isn't completely legitmate according to in-game regs. In fact the box cover of the first release CD was the one i have on my self, that was the hook that got me into this because of the almost endless possibilities. Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:37:00 - [188] the people posting here ain't playing in the alliance tournament. guess if BOB wins the tournament i don't want to see a thread made by dbp. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:42:00 - [189] ...but by TWD! Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:51:00 - [190] Originally by: Moghydin As I scroll down this thread the quality of BoB posts constantly drops at a steady rate. Now we have "little dogs barking "NO FAIR" when they are owned" No amount of spin can change some solid facts: 1) after putting pos in AZN BoB failed to make any real progress. 2) they used the cheap "spy stunt" to virtually steal the system, using the most underdeveloped areas in the game mechanics - pos's and sovereignty 3) they've made a chest beating post here, saying that they've "captured" OOY, although the more appropriate description would be "they've stolen" OOY 4) lots of effort by BoB posters followed, trying to repair the damage, done to public image of BoB by using something that is considered lame by overwhelming majority of players 1. After multiple attempts to take down the pos in AZN, all ASCN has to show for itself is alot of dead dreadnaughts and battleships. What was the ASCN/BoB ratio in local when you tried to siege the pos last and got wtfpwned at closerange, lost 5 dreads, and then got doomsday'd? 2. Spies are your fault, not ours. You let the spy in, you gave the spy access. I don't understand why this is considered "lame". Spies play a major part in real warfare, but as someone pointed out earlier you didn't see the trojans going "WTF METASIEGING!" when the greeks tricked them. 3. You're probably right about the language, but really whats the difference? How is this stealing while rolling out 15 dreads and killing tons of you to take the system isnt? Arent both technically taking things that don't belong to us? Hypocritical logic ftl. 4. We don't really care about our public image. We know that people will dislike us because we are they better then them, its a known fact of human nature. We just get irritated with the constant accusations of "cheating" when CCP and common sense disagree. Nemo me impune lacessit
Claude Trompeur	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:52:00 - [191] There is really no point in all this smacktalk, Who can really blame BoB for doing whatever they can to win a war. However, the fact that this is possible in the first place is and remains downright stupid. There is no mechanic in Eve that could possibly allow you to prevent losing a system this way other then complete mistrust of absoloutly everyone. The fact that BoB, who despite claims to the contrary is an excelent PvP alliance could not conquer a fortified region through conventional warfare, and only managed through use of this strategy spells trouble for everyone playing this game, not just ASCN. Do we really want a game where deception and sabotage is they key to all major victories? Will all wars in the future be fought with nothing but infiltration? Clearly this method is more effective then a fleet of a hundred Dreadnaughts, and that is a problem for everyone in this game. Completly regarless of the BoB vs. ASCN situation, the mechanic that allowed this to happen HAS to be changed. Conventional warfare in Eve is officially dead untill it is, because after BoB showed that they can take an insanely fortified system without firing a single shot after not being able to take less entrenched systems for weeks before the message to the community is clear: If you want to win a war, insert spies and saboterurs, it is so effective that all other forms of warfare are pointless by comparison. That is not a Situation we want in this game. That is not a Situation that CCP wants in this game. There is a reason we see epic battles in the trailers and not people offling POSes.
Kryztal Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:54:00 - [192] LoL the whining from ASCN just makes the takeover just sooooo much worth it rofl, been sitting here laughing my ass off at work all day. It amazes me how people are so clueless about the game we all play, i suggest you READ what the game is about before you start playing it. This is EDF's fault and the whining is just sooooooooo funny lol.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:57:00 - [193] Originally by: Fabienne Runestar So take 0oy, unless the GMs give it back, or ASCN takes it back. Because that will be the last system in Feyth you will take. You have heard the story of how Japan, awoke the sleeping dragon of the United States during WWII. Well guess what, with your slimy tactics, you've done something you've been trying really hard to fortsall. The sleeping industrial giant has awoken. There has been a line drawn in the sand, ASCN will rise up, with all it's might and smite BoB. Everyone else who hates Bob, now is your chance, They are not as uber as they thought they were. They use quasi cheats, and political backstabbing to win. I call for those in the north, to come take Delve, and Fountain! I hear Period Basin has some good PVPers there to! Come down and smite the corrupted BoB, help bring them to the level they play at. The griefer pirate corp level of eve. i lawled
Matrices Reborn Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:03:00 - [194] I congratulate BoB for utilizing the available options to capture the system. Whether one finds said available options unethical, etc., is essentially besides the point in the here and now: we all know spies can exist in Eve, and now we all know BoB has used it to best effect. Whining about it is pointless. Having said that, speaking to a broader issue, I seriously fear for the future of this game if this mechanic continues to be allowable. Its existence reinforces anti-social behavior, paranoia, and a mountain of ill will. In a large alliance, it will be inevitable that at least one POS manager somewhere could be bought of for a few Vagabonds or a few billion ISK, etc. For truly time-consuming efforts to be so easily usurped does not bode well for the long haul of the game.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:05:00 - [195] Originally by: Claude Trompeur Do we really want a game where deception and sabotage is they key to all major victories? Will all wars in the future be fought with nothing but infiltration? Clearly this method is more effective then a fleet of a hundred Dreadnaughts, and that is a problem for everyone in this game. Completly regarless of the BoB vs. ASCN situation, the mechanic that allowed this to happen HAS to be changed. Conventional warfare in Eve is officially dead untill it is. I don't agree. You want to take out a part of EVE's gameplay because ONE station got taken because of it? Situations like this happens so rarely that it has no effect on the general situation. Stations are taken by force, except in the VERY VERY few instances where either a spy or a traitor causes it. THAT is so rare that statistically it has no significance. Look at the bigger picture.... My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:12:00 - [196] Originally by: Matrices Reborn I congratulate BoB for utilizing the available options to capture the system. Whether one finds said available options unethical, etc., is essentially besides the point in the here and now: we all know spies can exist in Eve, and now we all know BoB has used it to best effect. Whining about it is pointless. Having said that, speaking to a broader issue, I seriously fear for the future of this game if this mechanic continues to be allowable. Its existence reinforces anti-social behavior, paranoia, and a mountain of ill will. In a large alliance, it will be inevitable that at least one POS manager somewhere could be bought of for a few Vagabonds or a few billion ISK, etc. For truly time-consuming efforts to be so easily usurped does not bode well for the long haul of the game. I disagree, I belive that these options is what make eve flourish, eve can be pure evil and that is the reason why I play. Eve is so much like RL when it comes to being unfair and I like that. And on my last note, this "BoB can't fight" is getting stupid, we have been in AZN in one week. At least I are no longer here to fight you, I am here to kill you and killing someone takes longer and you need plans. We are not in a hurry to kill you but one week to take your prime system is a bit fast don't you think, at least give us to christmas before flaming that we can't take a system. Oh and taking 1 region and one system in feyth feels pretty damn good. You Will Cry My Name
The Speaker The Clue Factory	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:15:00 - [197] Edited by: The Speaker on 10/12/2006 21:15:51 Originally by: Tzrailasa I don't agree. You want to take out a part of EVE's gameplay because ONE station got taken because of it? Situations like this happens so rarely that it has no effect on the general situation. Stations are taken by force, except in the VERY VERY few instances where either a spy or a traitor causes it. THAT is so rare that statistically it has no significance. But...but...but... It's such a big deal and so bad for the game and the end of Eve and the death of sportsmanship because it happened to them.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:18:00 - [198] With all the talk about security, there's NO in game mechanics to counter spies. The only solution is to have a bunch of RL friends to runn all the important staff and not let anyone who you don't know IRL to come even close to sensitive positions. But this actually makes the alliance or a corp not worth joining, as no matter what you do you'll be never trusted enough. It's clear to everyone that POS staff is seriously underdeveloped in Eve. One guys shouldn't be able to give the whole system to enemy with a pair of mouse clicks.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:19:00 - [199] This thread is really going places now, good work Dian! Blog
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:22:00 - [200] What Rift Scorn said tbh. Cutting all the BS aside , the msg is quite clear to ASCN. We are doing everything to the max thats allowed to take you down and we will do so. Would you guys actualy stand up and go down fighting or go down whining about our tactics? After this war is over the victor will be remembered and the all the whines that have been made here will drown in the river of tears , your choice ! "Lord Samaiel, Rise " BNC Vs CELES Video
hangovur Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:28:00 - [201] ok, i will try to keep this as clean as possible, though it is likely a mistake to even post here. this is not a war where we all line up and duke it out. we tried that during the first week or two in the war and ASCN refused by.. 1) not showing up to engage us unless the odds were overwhelming. i dont mean for this to be smack, its just simply true. you didnt have anything forcing you to engage and therefore didnt. 2) and ballsy and quite good plan to take the war to us by placing 13 towers in our closest outpost system. this was a brilliant idea and if it would have been executed well would have seriously hampered our invasion. however, the flaw was in the inadequate leadership who failed to fuel and arm all but 2 of these POS. however, this started the POS war. this has become a total war, in that we are not distant warring enemies raiding for short term profit. in the end of this war one of our entities will no longer exist in the sense that it did previously. we have taken an entire fortified region from you using conventional methods. we have lived in your capital for weeks now and succesfully defended our POS several times. this provided us with some of the most intense fights i have ever had in eve, and i thank you. we took this station using unconventional means, yes. but as i said this is a total war, and you should expect us to take whatever we can by any means possible under the current game mechanics. now to the point of my post. you let a ~30-50 billion isk (after BPOs) have a signifigant security weakness. this is not BoB "meta-gaming", this is again, POOR LEADERSHIP. before i was in BoB i was part of an alliance that controlled around 100 POS (TBB), which isnt nearly what ASCN should have, and what happened to you could not have possibly happened to that alliance (its network was destroyed the old fashioned way). it is through POOR LEADERSHIP that you allowed your station to be so vulnarable. the game mechanics to protect yourself are there if ASCN leadership would take the initiative to use them. i wont hold your hand and explain it you, but it is completely possible to protect yourself form somethng like this. your alliance has.... loose, recruiting standards and you should fully expect EVERY enemy of your to have spies within your ranks. even the most strict of recruiting corps will have spies. it is the job of the leadership to use the tools made available by CCP to protect yourselves. /end rant
Claude Trompeur	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:47:00 - [202] There are no adequate tools to protect yourself from this kind of atack unless you do not give anyone within your corp or alliance who you don't know IRL any vital roles. When it comes to offlining the defenses of an entire system it's simply not right that it can be done without the consent of several people, and its not right that it can be done on such short notice that nobody has a chance to even notice before it's too late, and even more important, it's not right that you can't have people fuel stations without the ability to remove the fuel or offline the entire thing and destroy it. The tools to protect yourself from this kind of atack are inadequate in every way. This shouldn't be a game where the only real trust can be put into people you know from outside the game. It's a global community and as such it fails if you can't trust anyone.
killerco Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:51:00 - [203] Originally by: m0jo Originally by: killerco Originally by: Kryztal This war just got more interesting How can it get more interesting? you guys wanna fight you say constantly. And now you capture a staion through spies who offline posses what is the challange in that? Then come back and take it. sure no problem, just let me join bob first so i can offline all towers in 0OY Don't be a great man just be a man
killerco Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:53:00 - [204] Originally by: Sochin Spies play a major part in real warfare newsflash for ya this is a game not RL Don't be a great man just be a man
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:54:00 - [205] Originally by: Claude Trompeur There are no adequate tools to protect yourself from this kind of atack unless you do not give anyone within your corp or alliance who you don't know IRL any vital roles. It's easier than you think. Have at least 3 seperate corps running the POS in a system, is it is then impossible for a single spy/judas member from offlining the lot in one go. However as it was EDF that held the only POS's in system, there was no backup or protection against it. Max --------------------
killerco Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:55:00 - [206] Originally by: HostageTaker Cyvok and John McCreedy reaction! lol Don't be a great man just be a man
Claude Trompeur	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:56:00 - [207] Originally by: Sochin Spies play a major part in real warfare Correct, and they should play a major role in Eve, but Spies do not simply flip a swich to turn off all defenses a country has while the enemy marches in without firing a shot.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.10 22:01:00 - [208] Originally by: Apollo Balthar Originally by: Keldon Pax Edited by: Keldon Pax on 10/12/2006 13:00:23 This game is officailly Dead...no point to build to fight. Somebody offlined all the POSs, and clr out the hangers..I mean ..bloody hell what station is next for this kind of BS. All done by 1 person Be stuff if I am paying 15 bucks a month for that kind of crap. kELDON That may be in my hangar, wts. Can I have your stuff ? Originally by: CRYVOK Others, like BoB, they play the game in a meaningless fasition, concerned with nothing but winning. We care about our friends.
zr0ekool	Posted - 2006.12.10 22:02:00 - [209] "8:30pm pst ASCN has lost the war after seeing for the first time 5 dread players saying no to FC to warping on the pos when we had the upper hand, has showen me why we cant win this war, i find myself insulted after being up and in azn since 4:30 am pst to defend our space, would like to say thank you to all the people who stood up and fought against BoB 24/7 but all our efforts are in vein since we have ***** players who are scared to loose isk." If your going to use my forum post atleast gimme credit.. I know i got way better post then these to..
moregan Gallente SoIo Infinity	Posted - 2006.12.10 22:04:00 - [210] Originally by: killerco Originally by: Sochin Spies play a major part in real warfare newsflash for ya this is a game not RL For some people success in EVE is RL for them, not personally sure what I think about spies... speaking on vent with them having a laugh etc... just seems a bit far fetched :)

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