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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vetur
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Posted - 2006.12.12 13:47:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Matrix Aran
You sir have just steped on the bigest forum landmine ever in Eve.
<Snip for space>
Thank you for your considered response. This was exactly what I was looking for when I asked the question. Originally by: wystler
To those people commenting about traffic control and the problems caused by it, Oveur stated on EVE-TV on Sunday that its causing more problems than it solves and they are talking about taking it out.
Thank you. I didn't see the broadcast - just heard someone had mentioned it might be removed.
Okay, so I realise now that there's more to this question than I'd originally considered and, like most things must be when you're running a game like this, it's a juggling act. Advantages always having to be weighed against disadvantages.
Incidentally, for those who immediately leapt to the conclusion that I was "whining" - I wasn't. I was asking an honest question based on negative experiences that I'd had (albeit not that many), plus the experiences I'm aware that other people have had. Criticising a game like this doesn't mean that I hate it; offering suggestions - however stupid they may be in light of other people's greater experience - doesn't equate to what I'd consider 'whining', nor does it indicate an intention to cancel, or a condemnation of EVE, its devs or its players. If I was going to cancel, I'd not announce it. Whose business would it be but mine and CCP's?
Anyway, all that aside, I'm grateful to those of you who took the time to post your opinions. |
babyblue
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Posted - 2006.12.12 13:47:00 -
[92]
Edited by: babyblue on 12/12/2006 13:47:44
I remember some time ago saying I thought that resource allocation should be as fine-grained as being able to allocate resources on a grid-level, rather than at a system level. It turns out that there is significant cost in the session change from one node to another and if you were to try this on a grid level, it would be quite prohibitive and may even make your cluster slower, not faster.
I'm sure this is true, but the real issue isn't the cost of state change, it's the cost of state change the way Eve does it  .
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BlueFieldsInMay
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Posted - 2006.12.12 14:00:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Grez
Edited by: Grez on 12/12/2006 13:38:02
Firstly, EVE is on many servers. It's not just one blade like many other game servers are. TQ is THE most powerful virtual gaming server in the world. It's so powerful, it's in the top 500 super clusters in the world, and CCP had to check-in with the US military to get the RAMSAN's they wanted. Point I'm trying to make is that, EVE's already sharded, beyond belief, but CCP's software handles it in such a way that it's handled as one whole.
The last time I checked the LEAST computer (owned by a gaming company) on the top 500 was an order of magnitude larger than TQ... CCP wanted to be the first gaming company on that list but was beaten long ago and hasn't gotten on it yet.
this top 500 stuff came about from Ovuer opening his mouth while drunk, much like this removing jump queues thing ...
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DeckardIRL
Gallente
Bravehearts
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 14:14:00 -
[94]
Eve must always remain a single shard. I believe the China server will one day be connected to TQ... once China law changes and CCP can get a fat pipe between the servers at a cost effective price. With todays and future technologies the server should always remain a single shard- todays technologies dont have the limits- currently under test are 32 core processors... for an 8 processor system thats 256 processor cores in 1 server... so relax for the future ppl.
Strangely Oursulaert only has around 300 ppl in it these days, no queues and no lag... so clearly something has to be done with Jita and why all the Caldari scum are lagging the server by living out of 1 system.... I am in 0.0 atm and getting jump queues into empty systems!!! I am sure it wont be long before a change is implemented to cure TQ of this Caldari issue... I expect that when Jove space is opened as an empire space there will be lots of population movements that should see current empire space depopulate and spread the load somewhat.
Deck
_____________________________________________
Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud....
I shoot better on Bud.....
Eve Info- All you need to know |
HighlanderUK
Gallente
Interstellar Business Machines Corp.
9th Fleet
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:01:00 -
[95]
One also needs to be mindful of why systems like Jita/Oursul are busy, and yes some of it is down to new(ish) players. But the rest of the problem lies with CCP for leaving services/agents in these systems, and the manufacturers/traders, for only selling T2 items in the same system, everybody has to go to these systems to get T2, rare minerals and other such goodies.
If everyone was spread out, the blades server could do their load balancing work properly and take advantage of the new toys/hardware that was put in place. Instead resources are thrown at these hub systems.
Best thing to do is get Concord to operate a system wide smartbomb that fires once per hour.......so u get in, grab what you need and get out. Failsafe is you cant jump into system while 'cleansing is in progress'(or 15km protection bubble around gates), and you get a wee timer while your in the system -- giving time till next clensing!!!
**************************************************
Maker of the finest Scottish drones and ammo...all combined
with Active Peat Camouflage (tm) -- so dark, you won't see them coming!! |
Buster Gonads
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:12:00 -
[96]
Originally by: HighlanderUK
Best thing to do is get Concord to operate a system wide smartbomb that fires once per hour.......so u get in, grab what you need and get out. Failsafe is you cant jump into system while 'cleansing is in progress'(or 15km protection bubble around gates), and you get a wee timer while your in the system -- giving time till next clensing!!!
LOL. Role-play it - the star in that system becomes unstable, emitting an EMP pulse or ejecting a plasma cloud at near-light-speed every hour. 
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DeckardIRL
Gallente
Bravehearts
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:20:00 -
[97]
Edited by: DeckardIRL on 12/12/2006 15:21:08
Could you die if you were docked? Wouldnt like to think so... so everyone docks...
Deck
_____________________________________________
Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud....
I shoot better on Bud.....
Eve Info- All you need to know |
Lancer Hawk
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:54:00 -
[98]
i have a good idea.
make jita 0.0...
then see how many players vacate the system
even better
make multiple gank squads attacking somebody in every astroid belt, stargate,planet, station moon, and see if concord can deal with 100 different incedents. and how many NPC you can get into 1 system :P
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Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:01:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Insidi Us
The thing I love about a single server is player accountability. Last thing we need is some server A idiot coming to server B and leaving his or her reputation at the door.
Hummm, with multiple accounts, some people have 21 characters to play with. How can you possible say Player accountability?
With up to 21 characters/toons...You have no clue as to who the main is.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:31:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Originally by: Insidi Us
The thing I love about a single server is player accountability. Last thing we need is some server A idiot coming to server B and leaving his or her reputation at the door.
Hummm, with multiple accounts, some people have 21 characters to play with. How can you possible say Player accountability?
With up to 21 characters/toons...You have no clue as to who the main is.
But atelast every single character is accountable. Lets say for example, I (as in Patch86, the character) scammed my corp, and stole several billion isk worth of goods and did a runner. They will always remember Patch86 as the no good scammer who ripped thm off, they'll never let that go. And if they go to the forums about iot, EVERYONE in EVE would no- it'd follow me around for the rest of my time here. Its true that me playing on an alt account would make me flame-impervious (providing I never told anyone) but Patch86 would never escape that branding.
In WoW, as an example of a sharded game- I do something aweful to my clan/guild whatever they call them. If I get bored of the image of scammer, I can just go to another server. Done.
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DarkFenix
Caldari
Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2006.12.12 17:26:00 -
[101]
The OP seems not to have grasped one fact. Being shardless isn't some little gimmick, or a lame attempt at a record. It's a key part of what makes EVE the game it is today. A shardless server essentially makes EVE the only MMORPG that actually lives up to the massively multiplayer part. All the others are just moderately multiplayer online games.
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.12 17:55:00 -
[102]
Originally by: HighlanderUK
One also needs to be mindful of why systems like Jita/Oursul are busy, and yes some of it is down to new(ish) players. But the rest of the problem lies with CCP for leaving services/agents in these systems, and the manufacturers/traders, for only selling T2 items in the same system, everybody has to go to these systems to get T2, rare minerals and other such goodies.
And to other players for being ignorant of the market. I fit nothing but T2 gear to all my ships and I have no problem picking stuff up without going to Jita. Amarr/Sarum Prime usually fulfills my requirements, if not a quick trip to Tash-Murkon will.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
DOGNOSH
Minmatar
Rage of Angels
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:05:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Grez
Edited by: Grez on 12/12/2006 13:38:02
Point I'm trying to make is that, EVE's already sharded, beyond belief, but CCP's software handles it in such a way that it's handled as one whole.
with all due respect that is not the definition of shard
EVE is one shard because it is all in one persistant universe
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dailyhazard
Caldari
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:11:00 -
[104]
Originally by: SN3263827
Don't be fooled into thinking Traffic Control is somehow the affliction of solely highly populated systems.
I lost a megathron to a gank squad earlier this evening because I was #4 in the queue to jump into an empty 0.0 system for 4 minutes.
Its quite frankly ridiculous, and makes playing the game impossible.
Thats what you get when you run when you outnumber the other gang.
Woohoo it made me happy there was jump queue :p
But it is pretty redicolous but i generally spam jump and i jump within 10 seconds of first warning.
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JeanPierre
Gallente
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:15:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Cornelius Murphy
(Just my opinion, not that of my corp )
Jesus, why do people keep writing this... who in their right mind think people speak for their entire corp when they say something?
Usually it's the CEO's of corporations or Alliances that think that. And I know, normally, they're not in their right mind to begin with.
Some alliances actually put out "don't you dare speak about anything on the forums" orders, even in regards to unrelated events (like commenting on salvaging or something generic and un-alliance/corp related).
They be egomaniacs mate.
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Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well? |
Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:26:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Originally by: Insidi Us
The thing I love about a single server is player accountability. Last thing we need is some server A idiot coming to server B and leaving his or her reputation at the door.
Hummm, with multiple accounts, some people have 21 characters to play with. How can you possible say Player accountability?
With up to 21 characters/toons...You have no clue as to who the main is.
But atelast every single character is accountable. Lets say for example, I (as in Patch86, the character) scammed my corp, and stole several billion isk worth of goods and did a runner. They will always remember Patch86 as the no good scammer who ripped thm off, they'll never let that go. And if they go to the forums about iot, EVERYONE in EVE would no- it'd follow me around for the rest of my time here. Its true that me playing on an alt account would make me flame-impervious (providing I never told anyone) but Patch86 would never escape that branding.
In WoW, as an example of a sharded game- I do something aweful to my clan/guild whatever they call them. If I get bored of the image of scammer, I can just go to another server. Done.
The same here...Think Zeppo is a main charater, Or Miss LadyDragon? Both are scam alts; the main character is unknown and cannot be held responsible for their actions.
My quote still stands...as long as multiple accounts are encouraged, and each account has three character slots, there is no player accountability.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:05:00 -
[107]
CCP should have no problem running alot more then the current 30k users on a single server. Keep in mind that hardware has become significantly faster and cheaper the past years (ram prices dropping, introduction 64bit hardware and software in the future, more raw Mhz / faster etwork and internet connections).
All they need to do is add more nodes...i'm not sure how their current system works (how many hamsters per node?) but i can imagine that if they add new regions they set up a different server-rack for them so that if you jump into or out of the region you get moved to a different physical server, which would allow a (virtual) unsharded world split onto multiple physical computers.
Basilisk Fitting Link |
Glengrant
Minmatar
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.15 01:14:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Vetur
No, I don't assume it's universal. I assume it's a problem being experienced by a lot of players. As a matter of fact lag rarely causes me problems, either, although I notice it from time to time. I was more moved to ask the question by the jump queues, and by CCP's own comments about the reduction in server performance lately. Quote:
I generaly discount any problems in the first few weeks after major patches. You get a lot of effects that calm down after hotfixes etc... that are more temporary breakage than fundamental problems.
Originally by: Vetur
So surely there is no level at which you'd welcome a shard.
That is correct. :-)
Originally by: Vetur
Or is it more the case that sharding would not break the game, as such, but that it would change it in a way that you personally wouldn't like?
It would break the game as it was meant to be. Sure - there would still be a game and it would still have players - but a lot - including me - would probably quit over this. Not all. It might very well still be a commercialy viable game - minus one major selling point that distinguishes it from the many other MMOGs out there. Many of those BTW also have lag - sometimes bad lag - even with shards.
Sharding would not mean the hardware power of todays TQ for every shard.
Plus - as others already pointed out - we have technical sharding already. You often switch servers while traveling more than a couple systems.
Originally by: Vetur
You've lost 15 seconds to a queue - good for you. Many others have lost a lot longer than that - not to mention the loss of ships and ISK. And finding myself at #56 in a queue last night to get into a system reporting 13 pilots on the map seemed unreasonable.
I understand. And as I said - I realize that some people have real bad lag some of the time. And a few people have lag a lot of the time - but that's often because they insist on staying where they are. And leaving an overcrowded system and work with others agents is way easier than having shards - plus it is an option that is available now.
At the end of the day - it's mostly a matter of is it rare enough. If I had lag all the time (outside hub systems) I would be frustrated too. But as long as it happens only occasionaly - and as long as there's more and better hardware to buy - it's not a fundamental problem. Some lag simply comes with the MMOG package.
Originally by: Vetur
You may well have been lucky. Perhaps today you'll not be.
Today we battled an endless spawn in a complex and had so many wrecks that we did get very noticable lag. Yeah - I'd prefer not to have that - but it still ain't a big prob. Next time we bring more people to salvage in time. :-)
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