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Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.15 14:17:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Kamazani on 15/12/2006 14:26:51
 Originally by: Ishana
Originally by: Kamazani
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 15/12/2006 13:39:00
Imho they should just introduce a new probe type, 'Deadspace Probe' which is used from the standard probe launcher. They should prolly come in the same flavors as the normal ship scan probes, don't get the detection penalty from deadspace, and have a maximum AND minimum scan deviation that will put you into a spot from which you can use the next probe down the line, but NOT get a result to bypass one or even get a pinpoint location.
So for example if someone starts with a 40 AU probe, maxskills in a rigged up covops, under optimal circumstances it will take him some 8 minutes to find the mission, ~2 minutes less for each level of probe lower he starts with. During the final 4 minutes, his probes are detectable by the mission runner, which gives fair warning to the attentive ones.
This would be very close to the old system, just getting rid of the stupid plane thing and the need for multiple probes (Triangulation will not work in many systems where the warpable objects are more or less lined up anyway). And it would not upset the new system (which is fine for scanning safespots) at all.
no.. stay out of my mission.
Go play WoW you have instances there already.
already did... the whines are worse over there. there's a pve part and a pvp part to this game. neither should not be mixed.. carebears in eve mind their own business ingame, pirates are like ****'s cuz they thinks it's fun to be cruel and get a rise out of benefiting from another person's misery, lastly... pvp'ers try force their ways on other's.
I like pvp (at my behest) and i also like missions... missions are quite relaxing after a long and grinding day of work. I dont' need to spend the next 2 hours of my time spending money on new modules cuz lofty or some other pirate asshat thinks it's funny. If I'm not set for pvp or in lowsec, I shouldn't have to be forced into something I dont' want to do.
edit: that being said, there aren't a whole lot of Sci-fi games quite as good as eve and anarchy online, so my choices are slim. Until blizzard comes out with "Starcraft" mmo.... i'm gonna stay here and try to enjoy it the best i can.
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
Sinnbad Mayhem
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2006.12.15 14:18:00 -
[62]
Apology to Wrayeth and Hoshi and all,
Your right, the current system needs to be rebalanced. It does seem a tad bit too hard. And in low sec, everyone should be fair game. Dont know what I was thinking when I posted.
Got some personal crap to fix, shouldnt have got angry with ya all.
/me no more forum posts for me for long time  |
SN3263827
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:24:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Kamazani
already did... the whines are worse over there. there's a pve part and a pvp part to this game. neither should be mixed.. {...}
I like pvp (at my behest)
EvE is not a "consentual combat" game. Get over it.
_____________________________________________
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M00dy
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:26:00 -
[64]
Cool apology Sinbad.
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Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:27:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kamazani
Edited by: Kamazani on 15/12/2006 14:48:31
Edited by: Kamazani on 15/12/2006 14:26:51
Originally by: Ishana
Originally by: Kamazani
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 15/12/2006 13:39:00
Imho they should just introduce a new probe type, 'Deadspace Probe' which is used from the standard probe launcher. They should prolly come in the same flavors as the normal ship scan probes, don't get the detection penalty from deadspace, and have a maximum AND minimum scan deviation that will put you into a spot from which you can use the next probe down the line, but NOT get a result to bypass one or even get a pinpoint location.
So for example if someone starts with a 40 AU probe, maxskills in a rigged up covops, under optimal circumstances it will take him some 8 minutes to find the mission, ~2 minutes less for each level of probe lower he starts with. During the final 4 minutes, his probes are detectable by the mission runner, which gives fair warning to the attentive ones.
This would be very close to the old system, just getting rid of the stupid plane thing and the need for multiple probes (Triangulation will not work in many systems where the warpable objects are more or less lined up anyway). And it would not upset the new system (which is fine for scanning safespots) at all.
no.. stay out of my mission.
Go play WoW you have instances there already.
already did... the whines are worse over there. there's a pve part and a pvp part to this game. neither should be mixed.. carebears in eve mind their own business ingame, pirates are like ****'s cuz they thinks it's fun to be cruel and get a rise out of benefiting from another person's misery, lastly... pvp'ers try force their ways on other's.
I like pvp (at my behest) and i also like missions... missions are quite relaxing after a long and grinding day of work. I dont' need to spend the next 2 hours of my time spending money on new modules cuz lofty or some other pirate asshat thinks it's funny. If I'm not set for pvp or in lowsec, I shouldn't have to be forced into something I dont' want to do.
edit: that being said, there aren't a whole lot of Sci-fi games quite as good as eve and anarchy online, so my choices are slim. Until blizzard comes out with "Starcraft" mmo.... i'm gonna stay here and try to enjoy it the best i can.
You are in a wrong game, dear.
Originally by: Wrangler
We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!  
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Ishan Shade
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:31:00 -
[66]
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Kamazani
already did... the whines are worse over there. there's a pve part and a pvp part to this game. neither should be mixed.. {...}
I like pvp (at my behest)
EvE is not a "consentual combat" game. Get over it.
just to add some proof to this claim:
Originally by: Oveur
EVE is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=155334&page=2#35
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Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:36:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ishan Shade
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Kamazani
already did... the whines are worse over there. there's a pve part and a pvp part to this game. neither should be mixed.. {...}
I like pvp (at my behest)
EvE is not a "consentual combat" game. Get over it.
just to add some proof to this claim:
Originally by: Oveur
EVE is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=155334&page=2#35
doesn't mean I have to PVP or pirate or grief or anything. all you punks can get off your high horse.... I pay just as much as you do. forcing me to do what I don't want to do and saying <falsetto**** voice> yer in the wrong game dear.... isn't going to change anything. I still play this game until I have a personal reason not to. so bite it.
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
SN3263827
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:41:00 -
[68]
I've just spent another hour and a half trying this out.
I had my alt accept a level 1 mission, and then put my main in the mission spot while my alt scanned from the mission gate. After 10 attempts with 5 au probes I decided to try overlapping probes. Unfortunately, even knowing exactly where the spot was I couldn't get into a position to drop 2 probes that overlapped, so I completed the mission (can't hurt can it?) and accepted a new one.
This time I could drop two probes that overlapped, by pure chance. Still no results after 10 scans.
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Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:44:00 -
[69]
oh and one more thing...
you all sitting there telling me that people who are fighting against the issue of not being able to easily scan mission runners down with scan probes, are actually there to enforce the old vernicular <kiddie voice> "eve is a pvp game, it's not consensual RAWR!" they are there for one reason and one reason alone... to grief. there's NO point in unwelcomed people being in high sec missions. the money's terrible, the risk isn't that great, but I'm having a good time surviving on my own. so, bugger off.
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
Jorr Meditir
Gallente
Halfwits
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:46:00 -
[70]
Why not introduce lockable acc-gates into missions, that either require a password (as the agent gives to the player) or some hacking skills (start using them too) to be unlocked.
that way, a missionrunner who wants to survive, will scan that gate once in a while (hacking it might take 5 to 30 minutes depending on skills) and as soon as something shows up, he warp away or call in backup.
If the missionrunner dont scan the gate, or have the wrong distance set or something, he wont see you hack his gate and then you get your easy gank.
And then, ease up the scanning again.
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SN3263827
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:49:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kamazani
doesn't mean I have to PVP or pirate or grief or anything. all you punks can get off your high horse.... I pay just as much as you do. forcing me to do what I don't want to do and saying <falsetto**** voice> yer in the wrong game dear.... isn't going to change anything. I still play this game until I have a personal reason not to. so bite it.
Yes, you pay the same as us. For a game that is explicitly PVP orientated.
Complaining about that is like complaining your car can't fly. Guess what: no-one said it would.
Anyway, that's wholly off-topic for this thread, so begone.
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Forino Ovoli
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:50:00 -
[72]
Going back to the OP's intent - probing out mission runners "that are war targets" - that makes a clear distinction.
Perhaps there should be an increased chance of finding targets if they are at war with you?
While at first glance this may not seem logical, it could certainly be justified. If you are at war with another Corp, one could assume you have more detailed data on the Corp's Order of Battle. That extra information is programmed into the probes, thus allowing them a better chance of locating the enemy while scanning.
There are even RL precedents for this technique in the realm of submarine warfare. If one submarine picks up another on sonar, than it may only be able to identify it as an unclassifed submarine.
However, if that submarine was one that had been tracked and classifed based on acoustic signatures, they may be able to know exactly which hull number it was. In some cases, there are anecdotes that tracking submarines could tell WHICH crew was on watch based upon the targets operating characteristics.
To sum up, as a self-described "carebear PVE mission runner", I support it being very difficult (not impossible) for someone to scan me out while running missions.
However, I certainly see the point that war target mission runners should not be able to sustain the war effort with near invulnerability.
I think that increasing the chance of finding opposing war targets would be a good compromise solution on this issue.
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Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:52:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Kamazani on 15/12/2006 16:02:44
Edited by: Kamazani on 15/12/2006 15:55:31
Edited by: Kamazani on 15/12/2006 15:55:06
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Kamazani
doesn't mean I have to PVP or pirate or grief or anything. all you punks can get off your high horse.... I pay just as much as you do. forcing me to do what I don't want to do and saying <falsetto**** voice> yer in the wrong game dear.... isn't going to change anything. I still play this game until I have a personal reason not to. so bite it.
Yes, you pay the same as us. For a game that is explicitly PVP orientated.
Complaining about that is like complaining your car can't fly. Guess what: no-one said it would.
Anyway, that's wholly off-topic for this thread, so begone.
well then if that's the case.. why the hell am I still in the game.. hey CCP come ban me.. I dont' want to pvp! I want to use your game as a missioning hub.. Huh? what? you want my 15 bucks, oh okay.
I'm aware that there's a lot of pvp involved in this game, but there's also pve aspects, so step off! If it was a totally PVP oriented game, then there wouldnt' be high sec or missions. Have CCP argue otherwise..
<sigh> what's the point? you guys are still going to try to force everyone into not enjoying the game the way they want. so it's moot.
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2006.12.15 16:12:00 -
[74]
i was reading that site with the dev's http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=155334&page=2#35 talking about the game.
"eve is a primarily pvp game" you failed to mention that they just mean that pvp will balanced before pve. that doesn't mean you can come into my missions and take my mission can or salvage my wrecks or attempt to make me shoot you in high sec.
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.15 16:12:00 -
[75]
Originally by: SN3263827
Yes, you pay the same as us. For a game that is explicitly PVP orientated.
Complaining about that is like complaining your car can't fly. Guess what: no-one said it would.
Anyway, that's wholly off-topic for this thread, so begone.
You know, by going with that analogy I would have to say 'But my car COULD fly pre-kali!'...
Sure it is PvP oriented and I prolly would have quit long ago if it was not. But first there is more to PvP than ganking mission runners (Which is in fact much more aking to PvE than to PvP) and secondly I like both aspects, but doing them serial, not parallel.
Now I do believe there should be a chance for a mission to be busted for balances sake, but it must require an effort and give attentive runners a fair warning.
And if I had to chose between now and before the nerf, I would definitely pick now beause before the nerf it was breaking the entire game for the mission runners, and now it is only breaking a small aspect for the PvPers (and tbh I don't even consider mission gankers PvPers, they're just gankbears, no better than the suiciders in highsec.)
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Damien Smith
ExScape
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Posted - 2006.12.15 16:14:00 -
[76]
I think the whole single probe, easier scanning thing was brought about to allow the general population to experiment in exploration. I think most of us get this, really. Casual players deserve to get involved in probing as much as the vets, and exploration with the old system would admittedly be too hard.
Why not simply allow exploration probes to be used in the new, single probe, skillpoints > skills system and leave the 'bears to it, and make recon scanning back into the hard core, real life skill intensive profession it was.
Exploration - One probe chance based.
Recon - Three probe triangulation (chance, if you really insist) based.
Is there anyone at all who would have a problem with that?
Exploration would be exactly as it is now. Recon scanning would be exactly as it was pre-kali, only chance based (with realistic chances based on target size and range from probe) and with the new probe sizes (with realistic min/max deviations).
This way the pirate probers vs mission runners problem would solve itself. You'd find missions being probed no more or less than they did pre-kali, with the competent probers only going after the most lucrative targets.
The way it's gone so far is from a balanced enough ratio of fishes to fishermen to keep fish stocks high, while still feeding the fishermen.
Then it went to allowing the fishermen to use nets the size of Germany, boats that travel at the speed of sound and the ability to locate any fish, anywhere at any time.
Finally they gave the fishes invisibility, god mode, noclip mode and scuttled the fishermen's boats.
All we're asking for is the balance back...
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Join channel 'ExScape' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.15 17:03:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Sinnbad Mayhem
Apology to Wrayeth and Hoshi and all,
Your right, the current system needs to be rebalanced. It does seem a tad bit too hard. And in low sec, everyone should be fair game. Dont know what I was thinking when I posted.
Got some personal crap to fix, shouldnt have got angry with ya all.
/me no more forum posts for me for long time
/respect
Sometimes RL intrudes on our gameplay whether we want it to or not, and the only thing you can do is roll with the punches. Hope things get better for you.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might
As well
Train
Another
Race |
Malvan
Minmatar
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.15 17:25:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Kamazani
well then if that's the case.. why the hell am I still in the game.. hey CCP come ban me.. I dont' want to pvp! I want to use your game as a missioning hub.. Huh? what? you want my 15 bucks, oh okay.
I'm aware that there's a lot of pvp involved in this game, but there's also pve aspects, so step off! If it was a totally PVP oriented game, then there wouldnt' be high sec or missions. Have CCP argue otherwise..
<sigh> what's the point? you guys are still going to try to force everyone into not enjoying the game the way they want. so it's moot.
If I am at war with you, I should be able to engage you anywhere in the game, that's what Concord sanctioned wars are for. Why should you be safe from attack by your war targets in a mission when a trader isn't safe from them flying between 1.0 systems?
And you arguement for seperation between PvP and PvE is redundant.
Originally by: Kamazani
If it was a totally PVP oriented game, then there wouldnt' be high sec or missions
If you cant see the problem with saying this at the same time as saying you should be safe in missions because the game isn't totally PvP then you don't have the debating or language skills to keep arguing about it.
'A flag that has no nation makes an enemy of the world' - The Golden Apple. |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.12.15 21:23:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Kamazani
doesn't mean I have to PVP or pirate or grief or anything. all you punks can get off your high horse.... I pay just as much as you do. forcing me to do what I don't want to do and saying <falsetto**** voice> yer in the wrong game dear.... isn't going to change anything. I still play this game until I have a personal reason not to. so bite it.
Nobody here is telling you how to play. That would look something like this:
Originally by: Kamazani
no.. stay out of my mission.
Instead what's happening is people are telling you how *they are going to play*. That might even involve getting in your way in "your" mission. The choice is still yours how you're going to deal with it.
If you want a game where nobody can ever interfere with you, take it up with the Devs. But unless they lose their minds and vision, I forsee much unhappiness with EVE in your future, grasshopper.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Lasati
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Posted - 2006.12.16 03:01:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Blind Picard
It seems that is impossible to find a mission runner with the new patch.
If they want to sell their loot, you can get em at the gate.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Yesodic Nomads Corp
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.12.16 03:42:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Whine.
Translation.
"Waaaah waaaah i lost my 1 click missioner-find-button. I have a complete inability to see things from an objective point of view and think the fact missioners have to fit almost completely against normal pvp fits to survive, or that people were using it to grief, or that missions rely on a single item unlike belt ratting so hours of work are rendered useless, are completly irrelivent... and that my pvp and only pvp game doesnt have any single player activities like, i dunno, missions for example.."
FYI. I dont mission, infact i hate missions, but you sir, are a moron.
Damian Smith 4tw.
Originally by: Victor Ramirez
using it to get the layout of a new system and a quick belt-check is about as practical as using Google Earth to see if your car is still in front of your house.
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Blind Picard
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Posted - 2006.12.20 13:21:00 -
[82]
I tryed hard sice new patch was deployed ( at least 6h /day ) to probe mission runners in a 0.0 system but nothing. Better CCP will rename those systems as Jita1, Jita2 , Jita3 .....JitaX.
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Blind Picard
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:32:00 -
[83]
Today i made a gang with my alt wich was running a mission. I warped to my alt raven and i made a safespot near him , under 1AU. After that i leaved gang with my scanner alt and i tried to scan my raven wich as i said it was under 1 au. I tried at least 20 times and nothing. Please Tuxx or another developer , read this and ballance this scanning system, at least in 0.0 systems. Maybe i wrong but where is the risk of a 0.0 system for this mission runners?
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Blind Picard
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Posted - 2006.12.21 21:00:00 -
[84]
Strange, strange , strange....After hundreds of scans on a 0.0 system i was in empire in a 0.9 system and at my first scan..surprise, i found 3-4 mission runners.
So...how's that possible , because in 0.0 is impossible to find one. Please balance this system. I can't understand why in a high sec system is possible to find a mission runner and in a 0.0 system is IMPOSSIBLE !!!
If anyone have an answer, please do it..
Thanks
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Sinchue Sin
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Posted - 2006.12.22 13:24:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Wrayeth
You can't bubble people in lowsec or highsec. Right now, my alliance primarily concerns itself with Empire wars. As such, our targets generally mission-***** to make ISK. It's impossible to disrupt a mission runner if he has insta-undock bookmarks, now, since he undocks and warps off before you can lock him down, then goes directly to the mission where you cannot probe him. Then, after finishing, he returns to station with warp to zero. The sum effect is that he is completely invulnerable and can ignore the wardec entirely.
In order to wage war effectively, you must strike at your opponent's lines of supply as well as his military forces. Without the ability to do the former, your chance of succeeding drops significantly. With mission-runners being completely invulnerable, this is a line of supply that cannot be cut no matter how much effort is poured into it. You could camp the station with 250 ships (assuming you have that many) and it still will not matter; bubbles do not work in Empire, so the opponent can get away with little effort.[/quote
Why don't you PvP against PvPers and not PvEers. Thats weak.
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