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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40104
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:06:04 -
[61] - Quote
Disappointing if true, though overall this year's AT was the best I've seen in terms of the matches.
Biggest disappointment for me if this is true is the impact of it on things like EVE_NT Collides, where it is totally possible that both leaderships do the same thing again when they are there together.
Also feel sorry for the members of the teams that were there to fight within the rules.
No assumption on my part that this is true, but it needs to be investigated.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
490
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:11:12 -
[62] - Quote
This is an online game about spaceships, and it's very serious business.
People get into it to earn virtual glory or money or power or altogether and they do not hesitate any possible ways to do that.
Eve is real, just like everyone else. People bring their behaviors into the game. That's shouldn't be a surprise at all.
Number 13 is unlucky, ATXIII did fully absorb that point. (last prize ships are the worst joke after sov). |
Citricioni
Stille Gewalt Dead Terrorists
1932
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:18:22 -
[63] - Quote
Both teams won their fights, where is the problem? oO :D
Both got in to the finals by defeating other teams, who CARES about that stuff :'D
Donnerstag 10.09. - 20:00 MESZ (18:00 EVE Time) - T1 Armor Cruiser
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
72
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:29:19 -
[64] - Quote
Aryth wrote:So lets see everyone on the teams banned from future AT's. All prizes siezed. We all knew they were Hydra A and Hydra B from the get go. CCP even knew but didn't have enough to do anything. Well, now you do and this isn't the first time this has happened.
If you want the AT to be anything but a farce you need to come down super hard.
Okay, stop, no. Lets sit down and talk.
First off, thank you wildcat for being honest enough to say these things. We have had our differences in the past, but regardless, I honestly think we both want to see the tournament flourish, and it was very painful for me to watch, last year, but this year especially when I was involved in the team.
Everyone suspected it was going on. I knew it was going on. You need to have a very good understanding of the meta to understand why, you need to have captained at teams during practice and real matches to be able to know for sure.
Everyone knew this was going on. We called it. I called it. I also said they played it very well, I stand by that. I sent CCP logibro a mail halfway through the tournament outlining what I thought was going on. I'm pretty sure it was accurate on every count. I'm not saying this to be smug, im saying this because its important to understand it wasn't just me who was upset, frustrated, and rendered apathetic by the performance camels of the deep put forward, especially in the finals. Things like this will ruin the tournament. I mean that sincerely. Here is what I suggest CCP does for next year to try and rectify this.
First off, dont take their prizes away, I suspect you will if you get concrete proof. I don't think this is fair. Why? If it wasn't for one of their team members outing it, they would have gotten away with it. It was the honesty and sportsmanship of one of their pilots that brought it to light. I suggest, if you have to penalize them in any way, redistribute the prizes more evenly. Give 1st and 2nd place the equivalent of what third place would get. Then distribute the remaining ships throughout the other teams who came third fourth and fifth. Don't ban them from the tournament, it won't do any good, youve tried that before and they'll just come back. They don't deserve to be blacklisted for playing a dangerous game, which you, CCP, are involved in too; they almost outplayed you like they did the other teams.
Second, the rules need to change for next year. I really don't think you have another option. I told logibro this in the email I sent you via your forum link. It will be difficult, practising may be harder, and certain alliances (pl included) may have to sacrifice something. I say it will be worth it. Why? Right now, the tournament is a profit machine. All it takes is for more than hydra to bend the rules in this way, and you have the higher tier teams winning every year. Wildcards who are sportsmanlike have no chance of winning. bringing the same setup every round, and bringing two teams who have all the same intel and meta chain, almost doubles your chances of winning. Having more than one team doing this (others have already started down the road), is absolutely disasterous, as it takes away all of the charachter of having seperate alliances at all. Also, every team who fields an 'alt' alliance, pushes another smaller team out. Some of those teams have good captains, smart pilots, and deserve to place well if they are given the chance and the experience to learn. We need a fix.
Third, dont do this alone. You have some of the best theorycrafting minds working for you, but there are people equally as talented in the eve community, you know that, use them. I suggest you do something which kills several birds with one stone.
Appoint a CSM rep whose job it is to represent the tournament, and do jobs which can help take work off of your shoulders. Again, I mentioned this in my mail to logibro. A CSM can help weigh up everyone's opinions on rule changes, and suggest what would be the best solution to the problem we had this year. I spoke to manny about this, he thinks it is a good idea. I would put my name forward too for this job, tholugh I feel there are better candidates (GreyGal comes to mind right away).
The tourney CSM can also aggregate concerns and requests to the devs. This is really important. We had dozens of people this year asking the same questions 'can you spawn polarized weapons in?' 'when are we getting our tournament bubbles?' 'can you spawn me x item in on the test server?' An impartial CSM, who can take these concerns, help where they can (like for instance spawning items in on the test server), would save the small dev team who works on the tournament a LOT of time. It would help with communication between the devs and the playerbase, something which we had problems with this year, and it would make the tournament a more fair place for everyone.
Everyone is mad about this, you shouldn't be, you should learn from it, move on, and try and help improve things where you can. Just because I dont like what certain people on the hydra team did, and wouldn't trust them, doesnt mean they dont know exactly what they are doing. Bitching and moaning about this will get us nowhere. Solutions will. I would start proposing some. |
Blast x
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
4
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:29:23 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better.
if you are serious about looking at something you can start with the final matches logi pilots "slowdown" . was painfully obvious on the camel side.
you guys have the apm tools right? you could check the logi pilots apm during rr phases.
like his apm in any other match from the moment enemys activate tp/web/scram on the ship him PRE activateing rr ship starting to take dmg. <- the way it works when its not slowed down.
after all day efforts and perfect flying they decided to suddenly develop paraplegia during the final? that ain't cool.
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Eve-bet Rattman
Eve-Bet
0
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:29:57 -
[66] - Quote
capt weeman wrote:So are all eve-bet's on the last day gonna get reinburst sicne it was a fix?? lol
Read the statement we issued around the first weekend of the tournament
https://www.eve-bet.com/LatestNews.aspx https://twitter.com/evebet_eve/status/636489479251820544 |
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1193
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:30:39 -
[67] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Doomchinchilla wrote:Pretty sure we're all getting trolled. If it's a troll, it's the stupidest troll ever, on a metaphorical level with walking into the Aurora, CO premiere of Dawn of Justice wearing a fake gas mask and carrying a toy assault rifle. CODE. trolled the Alliance Tournament. Someone remind me how that worked out for them. Rather ironic you value your own opinions so highly. Maybe you should start blogging again?
Concord Approved Trader
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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1550
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:35:26 -
[68] - Quote
oh comedy ensues.
Still it ain't their job to investigate the tournament.
Payments already went out, there is no "go get it back" move.
Yaay!!!!
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1809
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:41:24 -
[69] - Quote
The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
144
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:43:11 -
[70] - Quote
somebody being honest in EVE 0.0
EN24 CEO / Chief Editor
@BobmonEve - Third Party Service - #HABIT
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Zorena
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
8
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:45:19 -
[71] - Quote
So DHB WILDCAT is serious or is this some pl/goon/whatever meta bullshit, but really whatever the reason don't you guys understand your all ruining/undermining the validity of the entire tournament? |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
72
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:46:23 -
[72] - Quote
Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.
banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. |
Harrigan VonStudly
The Bastards The Bastards.
108
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:49:59 -
[73] - Quote
This is why we can't have nice things |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1948
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:54:23 -
[74] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. Unfortunately for them, this is not how Eve works.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2201
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:54:32 -
[75] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it.
Why give them recognition for cheating? Just ban them. Risk-Reward is what it's all about right? They took a huge risk that could pay off but it failed so they should lose it all. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1810
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:55:32 -
[76] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it.
They weren't clever? Everyone was openly trolling CCP the entire tournament every time one would come up in a match. They had to post before the tournament saying don't do this? I would think clever is flying under the radar completely. This wasn't clever. It wasn't even original.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Hans Bonderstadt
Codename-47 Tunnel Snakes.
57
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:57:50 -
[77] - Quote
laff AT is the biggest joke and is hardly regulated properly by CCP nowadays p trash tbh stop caring and stop betting
captain of the uss ebic Gä¦Gä¦Gä¦Gä¦S; pls
removarino the kebabarino
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1049
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:01:21 -
[78] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it.
so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"?? This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously? |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:01:42 -
[79] - Quote
Hahaha, people are really surprised....? Nothing in eve is fair and y'all think the tournament is gonna be fair. Rofl, these are the first teams to do this I'm sure and they won't be last. If CCP actually cared about fair play they'd taken steps to change that in eve years ago.
Edit: aren't the first teams to do this not are... |
Skarr Tos
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
15
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:02:39 -
[80] - Quote
Stuff like this is why we need tournaments year round. #content |
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Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:03:37 -
[81] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"?? This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously?
Pretty sure the AT is for the rich and the cheaters.... |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
346
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:16:32 -
[82] - Quote
Literally called all of this from the start, if this is a troll i have been gotten good. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1049
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:17:46 -
[83] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:Hahaha, people are really surprised....? no I'm not surprised, yet once one speaks the truth I want to see bans and max effort from CCP to make the tournament the way they pretend to (i.e. enforcing their B-team rule).
Or remove all rules regarding meta play and see what happens.
Quote:Nothing in eve is fair so what do you suggest? remove EULA all together, stop balancing things - Eve isn't fair. |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
338
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:18:22 -
[84] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote: 4) This probably means I will never fly an AT again since I am leaving hydra and noone will probably take me in. lol
App to Habit |
Dirk Magnum
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
493
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:20:41 -
[85] - Quote
Every AT has been fixed you guys, come on. Waiting for the inevitable leak of drama is half the fun. Placing a serious bet on any match in the finals is just a donation to whoever is cheating the hardest and gaming the E-B odds.
p.s. Karmafleet is recruiting
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "LIVE FAST DIE."
- traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
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Joey Judas
Repo Distribution and Salvage
5
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:26:36 -
[86] - Quote
Toasting in an epic bread |
Dravyan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:30:28 -
[87] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:So lets see everyone on the teams banned from future AT's. All prizes siezed. We all knew they were Hydra A and Hydra B from the get go. CCP even knew but didn't have enough to do anything. Well, now you do and this isn't the first time this has happened.
If you want the AT to be anything but a farce you need to come down super hard. ...Everyone knew this was going on. We called it. I called it. I also said they played it very well, I stand by that. I sent CCP logibro a mail halfway through the tournament outlining what I thought was going on....
Let's go back to this for a second, because I find it ****ing astonishing. Was this an email or an evemail, can we see it? |
Faife
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
283
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:34:48 -
[88] - Quote
absurd reactionary overpunishment or riot |
Faife
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
283
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:36:11 -
[89] - Quote
trivially, same comp same bans isn't proof or illegal. if you and your practice partner spar at least once with it, and you get the KMs, you both have full copies of that comp.
doesn't prove collusion. |
Alt ofanalt Spai
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.09.14 23:41:26 -
[90] - Quote
Faife wrote:trivially, same comp same bans isn't proof of collusion or illegal. if you and your practice partner spar at least once with it, and you get the KMs, you both have full copies of that comp.
having said that, they're douchy tryhards, so ban them
does a conversation with the team cpt that says .... man dont worry we threw that last match so we have more time to prepare........ count as proof? |
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