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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere
508
   |
Posted - 2015.09.14 18:12:32 -
[1] - Quote
The moment came during the final weekend. For me and several of the Warlords pilots we knew something was wrong. This is the true story from a non leadership pilot of Warlords final weekend.
First some clearance. All things that I hated because they are underhanded but are / were absolutely legal.
-shared wormhole / pos / and joined new testing sisi corporation with camels.
- shared logistics and spies.
- shared set-ups
- shared AT uniques for matches between the teams during tournament. Or more specifically Camel used our AT ships for the most part.
- shared prizes. yep once Warlords and Camels took 1 and 2 we joined the prize pool of 80 ships and distributed prizes amongst both teams equally.
August 29th, Camel vs Warlords.
Match 1 - Legit fight. Except for some very wierd target calling. Was nothing like what had practiced. We should have won that fight. Also side note / this was the only match I didnt fly in because for the final weekend Kadesh SOS'd Garmon to come fly in case Haart couldnt be here. Instead he took my spot. Meh 4 months of practicing and working hard to be replaced by someone that had absolutely 0 input or help to the team prior to the final weekend...... I was a bit bitter. Garmon however manned up and realized that I was probably a better fit to fly the Battleships. Lets be honest Haart (Sgt Anti) missed 4 out of the 5 bump attempts he made and only side scraped a vulture once after it was already 30km away.
Match 2 - This is were the **** gets interesting. You'll notice that we lost this fight but that the 2nd fight of the finals was almost identical with a totally different outcome. After this loss I was irate! I was yelling on coms and questioning Leadership thinking something was off. Then I get a skype convo by Kadesh.
[8/29/2015 1:43:30 PM] Kadesh: dont get depressed m8. Our matches were staged. We ran 1st setups predefined which were decided by online coinflip
[8/29/2015 1:43:44 PM] Kadesh: who lost 1st match was supposed to get ff/shallow vs heaven
[8/29/2015 1:43:57 PM] Kadesh: so we had just 1 real fight which we lost
[8/29/2015 1:44:32 PM] Kadesh: and 2nd was 0 chances for us to win
[8/29/2015 1:44:41 PM] Kadesh: this is to get more time to prep vs bo1 in losers
[8/29/2015 1:44:47 PM] Kadesh: otherwise we'd have like 20 minutes
[8/29/2015 1:44:56 PM] Kadesh: while tuskers had 40 or 1 hour
[8/29/2015 1:45:14 PM] Kadesh: and regarding finals we will talk again later with camels
[8/29/2015 1:45:33 PM] Kadesh: i want to win and will do everything to. We just couldnt set up semifinals because of massive PL rage on forums
[8/29/2015 1:45:42 PM] Kadesh: and we had to do ~real fights~
[8/29/2015 1:46:35 PM] Chris Gaidzik: well still not happy about it, but it really would have been nice if you let us know that before we bet several billions of isk on our team thinking we had a chance
[8/29/2015 1:46:44 PM] Kadesh: we had
[8/29/2015 1:46:48 PM] Kadesh: if we won 1st fight
[8/29/2015 1:46:53 PM] Kadesh: camels would throw 2nd
[8/29/2015 1:47:05 PM] Kadesh: it was just 1st match
[8/29/2015 1:47:17 PM] Kadesh: we basically reduced bo3 to bo1 + 1 additional match
[8/29/2015 1:47:31 PM] Kadesh: we also changed many fits so PL dont get an idea of what our setups are
[8/29/2015 1:47:43 PM] Kadesh: so it's better for overall chances
[8/29/2015 1:48:20 PM] Kadesh: we can't spread this info because if any ****** talks too much
[8/29/2015 1:48:26 PM] Kadesh: we're banned as both teams
At this point I didnt know what to do. I was the bad guy. On a team breaking rules. I was and am torn. I wanted to quit. The only thing that kept me there were the guys that werent in leadership for both teams that were legitimately working their asses off to win. I couldnt quit on them. I hated kadesh so much at this point. I didnt really get along with him anyways before.
So we went on from there. Beating Tuskers. and then beating PL.
So now the finals. I dont know what to even think of it myself.
Match 1 - Nothing to me seemed off here. Our set-up was designed to destroy the logi fast, which it did. Then just won on outlasting the opponent.
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DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere
508
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 18:12:52 -
[2] - Quote
Match 2 - almost mirror match of what we lost to the first time we faced camels. I was nervous. Ran backwards 20 km to line up a bump. Then raged in and bumped vulture out of range. We killed it and then won after that. However it was nice using our regular set-ups and not having logi perma jammed.
Match 3 - Sacrifice the chremoa. So I dont know what to think. After the kadesh convo I was questioning everything. We removed most if not all RSB's and replaced them with REECM. We then proceeded to get wrecked by damps.............
Match 4 - Finally got tired of the bullshit and told kadesh to shut up and took over calling. We played passive for a while. Kadesh neuting the primary claymore. I beeged and pleaded to the point of my voice going out for kadesh to stop being an idiot and go neut the logi. He wouldnt initially saying we had to neut the claymore. I finally told him I would take over the neuting and tackle, just go neut the GOD DAMN LOGI SO WE CAN KILL SOMETHING! So I sacrificed myself by tackling the claymore in my phoon and neuting it. now with the logi neuted the bombers started dieing. The claymore died. I deid but not before rage cruise put the second claymore into hull. Haart kiting at 60km was able to finish the claymore and then SNI's with bomber help as the t3 wing killed bombers, until soldat went down in our own logi and then I made the call for the t3d to take down their logi. Which is why the last bomber didnt die right away.
All in all I dont know what to think. I just know Im pissed. And I waited this long so the guys that did this legitly could be rewarded for their efforts. Warlords and Camel leadership fixed 1 match I know of. As for the finals I dont know what to think. I honestly dont.
All I am certain of is that.............
1) There are still some good guys on the camel and warlord team that had no idea of what was going on and just worked their asses off!
2) PL / Exodus ...... Im sorry you guys were up against overwhelming odds and did fantastically.
3) I have still not won an AT legitly and cannot call myself an AT champion.
4) This probably means I will never fly an AT again since I am leaving hydra and noone will probably take me in. lol
5) CCP I am sorry.
I am sorry to the camel and warlord guys that played this legit. You all rock. |
RoCkEt X
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
139
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:44:22 -
[3] - Quote
Prizes were shared last year too. I don't know why you're surprized WildCat.
I'd have thought, old hand as you are that you'd have seen this coming. I'm not bitter about losing to a group fielding two teams at all.
The only part of EVE i've enjoyed for the last 4-5 years is the meta side of the game. Once you get passed a certain level, it becomes about the intel, the spies and the cards you don't play as much as the cards you do. The AT is no different, as much as CCP would like it to be.
I sympathize with you, i really do - but i'm slightly shocked that you didn't see this coming.
-R |
Generic Marketting Character
Super Capital Proliferation Ltd
146
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:44:40 -
[4] - Quote
Paging Dr Fruity |
Alt ofanalt Spai
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:00:01 -
[5] - Quote
RoCkEt X wrote:Prizes were shared last year too. I don't know why you're surprized WildCat.
I'd have thought, old hand as you are that you'd have seen this coming. I'm not bitter about losing to a group fielding two teams at all.
The only part of EVE i've enjoyed for the last 4-5 years is the meta side of the game. Once you get passed a certain level, it becomes about the intel, the spies and the cards you don't play as much as the cards you do. The AT is no different, as much as CCP would like it to be.
I sympathize with you, i really do - but i'm slightly shocked that you didn't see this coming.
-R
I think his post was about the fixing of matches (which is obviously against the rules) and the lying of the leadership to the teams. Seems that his honor is what made him post this...... maybe im wrong, i mean who has honor anymore |
Hoodie Mafia
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
47
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:32:24 -
[6] - Quote
From an outside perspective its just a guessing game to what is going on. I would have guessed it but getting the confirmation still hurts a bit
Big step to come forward and talk about it though, I wonder if we will se a response from your team |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1946
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:52:10 -
[7] - Quote
Big props to you guys for doing the smart thing and cooperating to win. I would expect no less from Eve Online.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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John Selth
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:54:02 -
[8] - Quote
Oh boy.... |
michael chasseur
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
59
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:58:18 -
[9] - Quote
the only surprise here is that someone admitted it |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1801
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:59:04 -
[10] - Quote
The best part was everyone throwing it in CCP's face in twitch chat the entire time, them studiously ignoring it, and now this.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Dancul1001
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
50
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:59:57 -
[11] - Quote
michael chasseur wrote:the only surprise here is that someone admitted it
props to DHB assuming its a not a giant troll |
Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
61
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:00:26 -
[12] - Quote
So, I want my 1st, 2nd and 3rd place medals please. |
JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
383
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:01:51 -
[13] - Quote
Super surprising!
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Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
158
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:04:02 -
[14] - Quote
Hi!
1st ATXI , 3rd ATXII and ATXIII - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
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ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
176
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:05:08 -
[15] - Quote
Quote: 35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.
The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.
I have removed the offending material.
~ISD Buldath
Interstellar Services Department
Support, Training and Resources Division
Lt. Commander
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4chan SlashPOL
Implying Jita Prices
Vaguely Opsec.
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:06:23 -
[16] - Quote
I respect you for saying it. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1802
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:07:09 -
[17] - Quote
No worries everyone. We screenscapped it before edits. I will tweet the picture from @EVEAryth.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
93
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:10:43 -
[18] - Quote
Just contract me one AT ship of your choice and all is forgiven. |
JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
383
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:10:54 -
[19] - Quote
https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/DHB%20WildCat |
Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
61
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:10:58 -
[20] - Quote
ISD Buldath wrote:Quote: 35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.
The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel. I have removed the offending material.
So if you removed the chat logs from Skype are you confirming that they're legit? Because if they're fake and a troll, there is nothing wrong with having them here.
So are you taking an official stance from CCP that the skpye logs were legit? |
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Cobat Marland
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:15:45 -
[21] - Quote
Ground floor |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1947
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:16:38 -
[22] - Quote
Doomchinchilla wrote:ISD Buldath wrote:Quote: 35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.
The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel. I have removed the offending material. So if you removed the chat logs from Skype are you confirming that they're legit? Because if they're fake and a troll, there is nothing wrong with having them here. So are you taking an official stance from CCP that the skpye logs were legit?
Looking at the way the rules are written, it doesn't matter if they were legit or not -- it's policy to remove all chat logs regardless of their veracity.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Nicole Hastings
Caldari Research Corporation
20
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:17:06 -
[23] - Quote
Doomchinchilla wrote:ISD Buldath wrote:Quote: 35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.
The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel. I have removed the offending material. So if you removed the chat logs from Skype are you confirming that they're legit? Because if they're fake and a troll, there is nothing wrong with having them here. So are you taking an official stance from CCP that the skpye logs were legit?
>ISD
>taking an official stance from CCP
LMAO. You know they're volunteers, right? |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1804
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:20:06 -
[24] - Quote
So lets see everyone on the teams banned from future AT's. All prizes siezed. We all knew they were Hydra A and Hydra B from the get go. CCP even knew but didn't have enough to do anything. Well, now you do and this isn't the first time this has happened.
If you want the AT to be anything but a farce you need to come down super hard.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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The Mumm-Ra
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:20:26 -
[25] - Quote
Nicole Hastings wrote:[quote=Doomchinchilla][quote=ISD Buldath][quote] 35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime &
LMAO. You know they're volunteers idiots, right?
ftfy |
Cobat Marland
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:21:17 -
[26] - Quote
So Chessur knew all this too while sitting in the studio smiling sweetly into the camera huh  |
Arec Bardwin
1853
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:22:41 -
[27] - Quote
OP has gained enormous amounts of space honour by posting this. |
Pepperidge Farm
State War Academy
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:23:22 -
[28] - Quote
I just sort of assumed the AT was like the WWF. |
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1550
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:25:32 -
[29] - Quote
.... whelp CSM summits going to have a interesting talk tomorrow.
Yaay!!!!
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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
1112
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:25:34 -
[30] - Quote
Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better.
CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
@CCP_Logibro
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DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
515
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:26:34 -
[31] - Quote
Cobat Marland wrote:So Chessur knew all this too while sitting in the studio smiling sweetly into the camera huh
negative. the only ones that had any idea was leadership and myself after the match. 3/4th of both teams had no idea. Chessur had no contact with anyone while in iceland. As far as I know all other matches were legit. I accept my punishment in this matter fully and am sorry. |
William Ruben
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:27:16 -
[32] - Quote
Congratulations Clockwork Pineapple the real winners of the AT |
Dancul1001
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
52
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:27:34 -
[33] - Quote
i dont wanna sound super salty but PL knew this could be the case week 2 when we saw them bring the same setups with the same bans when the setup had never been show before
https://null-sec.com/atxiii/#/match/80
https://null-sec.com/atxiii/#/match/82
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Amy Garzan
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
31
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:27:36 -
[34] - Quote
Ban them all, ban their IP and their credit card. Ban any related accounts. Remove all prizes. |
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
205
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:27:51 -
[35] - Quote
Literally no one is surprised by this.
Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
982
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:28:32 -
[36] - Quote
Oh my.
Not today spaghetti.
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MtnDo Me
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
11
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:29:07 -
[37] - Quote
HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG
EVERY BOOOODYYYYYYYYYY
SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT SALT.
(incoming hopefully) |
Chapmonious Hunter
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:29:09 -
[38] - Quote
*grabs popcorn* |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
32286
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:30:34 -
[39] - Quote
*grabs Chapmonious*
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
177
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:31:13 -
[40] - Quote
Quote: 31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
That Didnt take long. The offending post has been removed.
I realise this is a hot topic for many people here. This Is going to be watched closely as things unfold to make sure that everyone gets a chance to talk without there being any issues. Please attempt to stay polite.
~ISD Buldath
Interstellar Services Department
Support, Training and Resources Division
Lt. Commander
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1805
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:32:33 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better.
Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't?
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1550
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:35:05 -
[42] - Quote
Aryth wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better. Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't?
Basics of investigations, they need a valid complainant, else its just spear fishing and hoping you can make sense of stuff.
Yaay!!!!
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Alt ofanalt Spai
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:35:23 -
[43] - Quote
Aryth wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better. Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't?
sounds like it |
Niden
Moira.
Villore Accords
171
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
I like how people are just straight up buying it based on one statement. How about waiting for the accused to respond before you cast judgement? Have some sense folks.
Moira corp | Villore Accords | Gallente militia |-á Lowlife on Crossing Zebras | @Niden_GMVA
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Tiberizzle
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
84
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:36:37 -
[45] - Quote
who even cares about the alliance tournament anymore
it's been mired in **** for as long as i can remember -- bizarro world setups that only function within the constraints of the absolutely comical rules, overt collusion, cheating
cheaters won the cheating contest to receive ccp's yearly 2t cheating subsidy in alliance tournament cheating non-shocker |
Anslo
Scope Works
Dead Terrorists
32168
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:38:44 -
[46] - Quote
This is gonna be good.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1805
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:43:46 -
[47] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better. Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't? Basics of investigations, they need a valid complainant, else its just spear fishing and hoping you can make sense of stuff.
Not remotely true. They went ahead and did a dev post before the tourny about this. Clearly they had already "looked" into it enough for that.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1550
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:43:55 -
[48] - Quote
Niden wrote:I like how people are just straight up buying it based on one statement. How about waiting for the accused to respond before you cast judgement? Have some sense folks.
Its been 20 minutes.
My popcorn's almost gone.
But we'll see what happens.
Drama for the week activated.
Yaay!!!!
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Ryu Chaos
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Legion
12
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:44:40 -
[49] - Quote
troll or real, epic thread, tyvm
@RyuChaos_
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Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
205
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:47:50 -
[50] - Quote
Tiberizzle wrote:who even cares about the alliance tournament anymore
it's been mired in **** for as long as i can remember -- bizarro world setups that only function within the constraints of the absolutely comical rules, overt collusion, cheating
cheaters won the cheating contest to receive ccp's yearly 2t cheating subsidy in alliance tournament cheating non-shocker
Not empty quoting
Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
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John Blathos
Motiveless Malignity
Psychotic Tendencies.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:48:50 -
[51] - Quote
William Ruben wrote:Congratulations Clockwork Pineapple the real winners of the AT
As soon as we lost the first match I knew there was cheating afoot. Otherwise the PVP JUGGERNAUT would have surely ploughed on.
I'm struggling to see how this warrants "bans all round" or seizing of prizes since, as far as I can tell, this is the same type of collusion and match-fixing as in AT9 - where no bans were given nor prizes removed, afaik? Maybe I missed it happening. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
2265
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:48:53 -
[52] - Quote
EVE players game every aspect of the game, color me surprised that the Tournament was rigged from the word go... (But I hope they enjoy their free trip to Iceland this year!)
Also, you should've stole some AT prize ships before you burned every bridge you can think of!
Contract me your dead!
|
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
132
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:49:01 -
[53] - Quote
https://twitter.com/PANDEMICLEGlON/status/638151503849652228
check out that prophet running the official pl twitter.... |
Ayuren Aakiwa
Sudden Death.
Exodus.
110
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:52:29 -
[54] - Quote
Seriously **** you guys. I hope you get the permabans you deserve
Street Rules Bitch idgaf
|
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1550
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:53:40 -
[55] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better. Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't? Basics of investigations, they need a valid complainant, else its just spear fishing and hoping you can make sense of stuff. Not remotely true. They went ahead and did a dev post before the tourny about this. Clearly they had already "looked" into it enough for that.
Looking and actually doing, much much different.
You can't prosecute someone for doing a crime if you don't have any evidence of it, and CCP isn't going to stalk peoples slack, mumble, teamspeak, text messages, etc etc etc.
The guys pretty much a whistleblower. He has evidence and is coming forward, but he's doing it infront of the entire community.
Basically he's forcing a investigation by risking his entire game life. I'll give him some credit for that.
Basically what will happen is a bunch of people will either lie, or someone else will come forward to corroborate what he's stating. They don't need 100 witnesses, just 1 with a method of backing up what he's alleging. In this case, unchanged logs and other people who saw what happened.
Also.. this isn't the US Court System, this is basically a dictatorship on CCP's end. If they feel like they've been cheated and lied to, they can go after anybody and everybody involved with pretty much next to no evidence, and there would be no appeal to it.
They get 1 person to come forward.... (Yes I watch alot of crime dramas)
But yea a investigation. I'm curious what the CSM are thinking to be honest.
Yaay!!!!
|
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
133
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:57:01 -
[56] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote: I'm curious what the CSM are thinking to be honest.
Congrats on being the first person to ever type that. |
Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
63
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:57:06 -
[57] - Quote
Pretty sure we're all getting trolled. But regardless I want all 3 medals please. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1809
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:59:37 -
[58] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Aryth wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better. Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't? Basics of investigations, they need a valid complainant, else its just spear fishing and hoping you can make sense of stuff. Not remotely true. They went ahead and did a dev post before the tourny about this. Clearly they had already "looked" into it enough for that. Looking and actually doing, much much different. You can't prosecute someone for doing a crime if you don't have any evidence of it, and CCP isn't going to stalk peoples slack, mumble, teamspeak, text messages, etc etc etc. The guys pretty much a whistleblower. He has evidence and is coming forward, but he's doing it infront of the entire community. Basically he's forcing a investigation by risking his entire game life. I'll give him some credit for that. Basically what will happen is a bunch of people will either lie, or someone else will come forward to corroborate what he's stating. They don't need 100 witnesses, just 1 with a method of backing up what he's alleging. In this case, unchanged logs and other people who saw what happened. Also.. this isn't the US Court System, this is basically a dictatorship on CCP's end. If they feel like they've been cheated and lied to, they can go after anybody and everybody involved with pretty much next to no evidence, and there would be no appeal to it. They get 1 person to come forward.... (Yes I watch alot of crime dramas) But yea a investigation. I'm curious what the CSM are thinking to be honest.
Making sure I quote this because you are obviously completely oblivious to recent events. You know, where they did exactly that. When I read stalk peoples slack I just lost it.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
capt weeman
Black Fury
Mordus Angels
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:00:49 -
[59] - Quote
So are all eve-bet's on the last day gonna get reinburst sicne it was a fix?? lol |
Ripard Teg
Snuff Box
Snuffed Out
1055
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:01:42 -
[60] - Quote
Doomchinchilla wrote:Pretty sure we're all getting trolled.
If it's a troll, it's the stupidest troll ever, on a metaphorical level with walking into the Aurora, CO premiere of Dawn of Justice wearing a fake gas mask and carrying a toy assault rifle.
CODE. trolled the Alliance Tournament. Someone remind me how that worked out for them. 
aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
|
|
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40104
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:06:04 -
[61] - Quote
Disappointing if true, though overall this year's AT was the best I've seen in terms of the matches.
Biggest disappointment for me if this is true is the impact of it on things like EVE_NT Collides, where it is totally possible that both leaderships do the same thing again when they are there together.
Also feel sorry for the members of the teams that were there to fight within the rules.
No assumption on my part that this is true, but it needs to be investigated.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
490
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:11:12 -
[62] - Quote
This is an online game about spaceships, and it's very serious business.
People get into it to earn virtual glory or money or power or altogether and they do not hesitate any possible ways to do that.
Eve is real, just like everyone else. People bring their behaviors into the game. That's shouldn't be a surprise at all.
Number 13 is unlucky, ATXIII did fully absorb that point. (last prize ships are the worst joke after sov). |
Citricioni
Stille Gewalt
Dead Terrorists
1932
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:18:22 -
[63] - Quote
Both teams won their fights, where is the problem? oO :D
Both got in to the finals by defeating other teams, who CARES about that stuff :'D
Donnerstag 10.09. - 20:00 MESZ (18:00 EVE Time) - T1 Armor Cruiser
|
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
72
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:29:19 -
[64] - Quote
Aryth wrote:So lets see everyone on the teams banned from future AT's. All prizes siezed. We all knew they were Hydra A and Hydra B from the get go. CCP even knew but didn't have enough to do anything. Well, now you do and this isn't the first time this has happened.
If you want the AT to be anything but a farce you need to come down super hard.
Okay, stop, no. Lets sit down and talk.
First off, thank you wildcat for being honest enough to say these things. We have had our differences in the past, but regardless, I honestly think we both want to see the tournament flourish, and it was very painful for me to watch, last year, but this year especially when I was involved in the team.
Everyone suspected it was going on. I knew it was going on. You need to have a very good understanding of the meta to understand why, you need to have captained at teams during practice and real matches to be able to know for sure.
Everyone knew this was going on. We called it. I called it. I also said they played it very well, I stand by that. I sent CCP logibro a mail halfway through the tournament outlining what I thought was going on. I'm pretty sure it was accurate on every count. I'm not saying this to be smug, im saying this because its important to understand it wasn't just me who was upset, frustrated, and rendered apathetic by the performance camels of the deep put forward, especially in the finals. Things like this will ruin the tournament. I mean that sincerely. Here is what I suggest CCP does for next year to try and rectify this.
First off, dont take their prizes away, I suspect you will if you get concrete proof. I don't think this is fair. Why? If it wasn't for one of their team members outing it, they would have gotten away with it. It was the honesty and sportsmanship of one of their pilots that brought it to light. I suggest, if you have to penalize them in any way, redistribute the prizes more evenly. Give 1st and 2nd place the equivalent of what third place would get. Then distribute the remaining ships throughout the other teams who came third fourth and fifth. Don't ban them from the tournament, it won't do any good, youve tried that before and they'll just come back. They don't deserve to be blacklisted for playing a dangerous game, which you, CCP, are involved in too; they almost outplayed you like they did the other teams.
Second, the rules need to change for next year. I really don't think you have another option. I told logibro this in the email I sent you via your forum link. It will be difficult, practising may be harder, and certain alliances (pl included) may have to sacrifice something. I say it will be worth it. Why? Right now, the tournament is a profit machine. All it takes is for more than hydra to bend the rules in this way, and you have the higher tier teams winning every year. Wildcards who are sportsmanlike have no chance of winning. bringing the same setup every round, and bringing two teams who have all the same intel and meta chain, almost doubles your chances of winning. Having more than one team doing this (others have already started down the road), is absolutely disasterous, as it takes away all of the charachter of having seperate alliances at all. Also, every team who fields an 'alt' alliance, pushes another smaller team out. Some of those teams have good captains, smart pilots, and deserve to place well if they are given the chance and the experience to learn. We need a fix.
Third, dont do this alone. You have some of the best theorycrafting minds working for you, but there are people equally as talented in the eve community, you know that, use them. I suggest you do something which kills several birds with one stone.
Appoint a CSM rep whose job it is to represent the tournament, and do jobs which can help take work off of your shoulders. Again, I mentioned this in my mail to logibro. A CSM can help weigh up everyone's opinions on rule changes, and suggest what would be the best solution to the problem we had this year. I spoke to manny about this, he thinks it is a good idea. I would put my name forward too for this job, tholugh I feel there are better candidates (GreyGal comes to mind right away).
The tourney CSM can also aggregate concerns and requests to the devs. This is really important. We had dozens of people this year asking the same questions 'can you spawn polarized weapons in?' 'when are we getting our tournament bubbles?' 'can you spawn me x item in on the test server?' An impartial CSM, who can take these concerns, help where they can (like for instance spawning items in on the test server), would save the small dev team who works on the tournament a LOT of time. It would help with communication between the devs and the playerbase, something which we had problems with this year, and it would make the tournament a more fair place for everyone.
Everyone is mad about this, you shouldn't be, you should learn from it, move on, and try and help improve things where you can. Just because I dont like what certain people on the hydra team did, and wouldn't trust them, doesnt mean they dont know exactly what they are doing. Bitching and moaning about this will get us nowhere. Solutions will. I would start proposing some. |
Blast x
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:29:23 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better.
if you are serious about looking at something you can start with the final matches logi pilots "slowdown" .
was painfully obvious on the camel side.
you guys have the apm tools right? you could check the logi pilots apm during rr phases.
like his apm in any other match from the moment enemys activate tp/web/scram on the ship
him PRE activateing rr
ship starting to take dmg.
<- the way it works when its not slowed down.
after all day efforts and perfect flying they decided to suddenly develop paraplegia during the final?
that ain't cool.
|
Eve-bet Rattman
Eve-Bet
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:29:57 -
[66] - Quote
capt weeman wrote:So are all eve-bet's on the last day gonna get reinburst sicne it was a fix?? lol
Read the statement we issued around the first weekend of the tournament
https://www.eve-bet.com/LatestNews.aspx
https://twitter.com/evebet_eve/status/636489479251820544 |
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858
Heroes and Villains.
1193
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:30:39 -
[67] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Doomchinchilla wrote:Pretty sure we're all getting trolled. If it's a troll, it's the stupidest troll ever, on a metaphorical level with walking into the Aurora, CO premiere of Dawn of Justice wearing a fake gas mask and carrying a toy assault rifle. CODE. trolled the Alliance Tournament. Someone remind me how that worked out for them.
Rather ironic you value your own opinions so highly. Maybe you should start blogging again?
Concord Approved Trader
|
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1550
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:35:26 -
[68] - Quote
oh comedy ensues.
Still it ain't their job to investigate the tournament.
Payments already went out, there is no "go get it back" move.
Yaay!!!!
|
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1809
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:41:24 -
[69] - Quote
The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
144
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:43:11 -
[70] - Quote
somebody being honest in EVE 0.0
EN24 CEO / Chief Editor
@BobmonEve - Third Party Service - #HABIT
|
|
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Zorena
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:45:19 -
[71] - Quote
So DHB WILDCAT is serious or is this some pl/goon/whatever meta bullshit, but really whatever the reason don't you guys understand your all ruining/undermining the validity of the entire tournament? |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
72
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:46:23 -
[72] - Quote
Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.
banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. |
Harrigan VonStudly
The Bastards
The Bastards.
108
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:49:59 -
[73] - Quote
This is why we can't have nice things |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1948
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:54:23 -
[74] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it.
Unfortunately for them, this is not how Eve works.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2201
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:54:32 -
[75] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it.
Why give them recognition for cheating? Just ban them. Risk-Reward is what it's all about right? They took a huge risk that could pay off but it failed so they should lose it all. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1810
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:55:32 -
[76] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it.
They weren't clever? Everyone was openly trolling CCP the entire tournament every time one would come up in a match. They had to post before the tournament saying don't do this? I would think clever is flying under the radar completely. This wasn't clever. It wasn't even original.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
Hans Bonderstadt
Codename-47
Tunnel Snakes.
57
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:57:50 -
[77] - Quote
laff AT is the biggest joke and is hardly regulated properly by CCP nowadays
p trash tbh stop caring and stop betting
captain of the uss ebic Gä¦Gä¦Gä¦Gä¦S; pls
removarino the kebabarino
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1049
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:01:21 -
[78] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it.
so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"??
This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously? |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:01:42 -
[79] - Quote
Hahaha, people are really surprised....? Nothing in eve is fair and y'all think the tournament is gonna be fair. Rofl, these are the first teams to do this I'm sure and they won't be last. If CCP actually cared about fair play they'd taken steps to change that in eve years ago.
Edit: aren't the first teams to do this not are... |
Skarr Tos
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:02:39 -
[80] - Quote
Stuff like this is why we need tournaments year round. #content |
|
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:03:37 -
[81] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"?? This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously?
Pretty sure the AT is for the rich and the cheaters.... |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
346
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:16:32 -
[82] - Quote
Literally called all of this from the start, if this is a troll i have been gotten good. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1049
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:17:46 -
[83] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:Hahaha, people are really surprised....?
no I'm not surprised, yet once one speaks the truth I want to see bans and max effort from CCP to make the tournament the way they pretend to (i.e. enforcing their B-team rule).
Or remove all rules regarding meta play and see what happens.
Quote:Nothing in eve is fair
so what do you suggest? remove EULA all together, stop balancing things - Eve isn't fair. |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
338
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:18:22 -
[84] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:
4) This probably means I will never fly an AT again since I am leaving hydra and noone will probably take me in. lol
App to Habit |
Dirk Magnum
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
493
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:20:41 -
[85] - Quote
Every AT has been fixed you guys, come on. Waiting for the inevitable leak of drama is half the fun. Placing a serious bet on any match in the finals is just a donation to whoever is cheating the hardest and gaming the E-B odds.
p.s. Karmafleet is recruiting
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "LIVE FAST DIE."
- traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
|
Joey Judas
Repo Distribution and Salvage
5
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:26:36 -
[86] - Quote
Toasting in an epic bread |
Dravyan
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:30:28 -
[87] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:So lets see everyone on the teams banned from future AT's. All prizes siezed. We all knew they were Hydra A and Hydra B from the get go. CCP even knew but didn't have enough to do anything. Well, now you do and this isn't the first time this has happened.
If you want the AT to be anything but a farce you need to come down super hard. ...Everyone knew this was going on. We called it. I called it. I also said they played it very well, I stand by that. I sent CCP logibro a mail halfway through the tournament outlining what I thought was going on....
Let's go back to this for a second, because I find it ****ing astonishing. Was this an email or an evemail, can we see it? |
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
283
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:34:48 -
[88] - Quote
absurd reactionary overpunishment or riot |
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
283
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:36:11 -
[89] - Quote
trivially, same comp same bans isn't proof or illegal. if you and your practice partner spar at least once with it, and you get the KMs, you both have full copies of that comp.
doesn't prove collusion. |
Alt ofanalt Spai
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:41:26 -
[90] - Quote
Faife wrote:trivially, same comp same bans isn't proof of collusion or illegal. if you and your practice partner spar at least once with it, and you get the KMs, you both have full copies of that comp.
having said that, they're douchy tryhards, so ban them
does a conversation with the team cpt that says .... man dont worry we threw that last match so we have more time to prepare........ count as proof? |
|
|
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
283
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 23:53:11 -
[91] - Quote
Alt ofanalt Spai wrote:Faife wrote:trivially, same comp same bans isn't proof of collusion or illegal. if you and your practice partner spar at least once with it, and you get the KMs, you both have full copies of that comp.
having said that, they're douchy tryhards, so ban them does a conversation with the team cpt that says .... man dont worry we threw that last match so we have more time to prepare........ count as proof?
sure, in fact let me write up a few of them right now |
Kadesh Priestess
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
488
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 00:12:04 -
[92] - Quote
hi |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40104
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 00:18:58 -
[93] - Quote
Alt ofanalt Spai wrote:does a conversation with the team cpt that says .... man dont worry we threw that last match so we have more time to prepare........ count as proof?
If it's true, yes. But aside from an accusation (and now a denial from the team captain), no proof has been provided yet.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1821
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 00:21:55 -
[94] - Quote
I have no doubt DHB doesn't have the purest motives. However, as you said he left of his own volition. He had no need to post this and did anyway. You claim the chatlog is BS. Are you then saying he faked the entire log?
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
73
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:03:35 -
[95] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. They weren't clever? Everyone was openly trolling CCP the entire tournament every time one would come up in a match. They had to post before the tournament saying don't do this? I would think clever is flying under the radar completely. This wasn't clever. It wasn't even original.
they were clever. They took a calcualted risk, with a pretty high chance of paying off, with a pretty high chance of getting away with it. They got away with it completely last year, and made a hell of a lot of isk playing the gamble. There was no reason they wouldn't get away with it again considering this year's flimsy last minute rules clarification.
The fact remains, what they did was wrong. But banning them does absolutely nothing. They will be back next year, unless ccp fundamentally changes the way they have banned people in the past.
I refuse to make the argument they should get their prizes siezed completely. one of two things will happen if that's the case. Either CCP will drastically reduce the amount of tournament ships, making the ones we have incredibly valuable, or they will redistribute the ships to the other teams, making us far better off also. I won't make an argument based around that, because it shows self interest. There can be more than enough done to them without me looking as if i want to get an advantage out of this (which i dont). I just want to make the tournament better and more competative in the future. Hydra included. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1834
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:07:45 -
[96] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. They weren't clever? Everyone was openly trolling CCP the entire tournament every time one would come up in a match. They had to post before the tournament saying don't do this? I would think clever is flying under the radar completely. This wasn't clever. It wasn't even original. they were clever. They took a calcualted risk, with a pretty high chance of paying off, with a pretty high chance of getting away with it. They got away with it completely last year, and made a hell of a lot of isk playing the gamble. There was no reason they wouldn't get away with it again considering this year's flimsy last minute rules clarification. The fact remains, what they did was wrong. But banning them does absolutely nothing. They will be back next year, unless ccp fundamentally changes the way they have banned people in the past. I refuse to make the argument they should get their prizes siezed completely. one of two things will happen if that's the case. Either CCP will drastically reduce the amount of tournament ships, making the ones we have incredibly valuable, or they will redistribute the ships to the other teams, making us far better off also. I won't make an argument based around that, because it shows self interest. There can be more than enough done to them without me looking as if i want to get an advantage out of this (which i dont). I just want to make the tournament better and more competative in the future. Hydra included.
That is exactly why punishment must be severe. It ain't their first time.
I actually like the taking theirs and you guys having the only ones. Or maybe just giving you guys 2nd place #s and reclaiming 1st and 3rd (obviously just give you the difference).
But at this point CCP has to come down like a sack of bricks. Otherwise, their warnings mean nothing. I am sure Hydra will try avoid any AT ban. I am also sure a army of internet detectives would relish the opportunity to out some later on. Yay drama!
Edit: Clarifying They = Hydra
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
Tactical Narcotics Team
155
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:11:03 -
[97] - Quote
Aryth wrote:I have no doubt DHB doesn't have the purest motives. However, as you said he left of his own volition. He had no need to post this and did anyway. You claim the chatlog is BS. Are you then saying he faked the entire log?
Because if he did, would that not fall under impersonation? Or is that just a violation if it's a CCP employee? |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
75
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:16:29 -
[98] - Quote
Dravyan wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:So lets see everyone on the teams banned from future AT's. All prizes siezed. We all knew they were Hydra A and Hydra B from the get go. CCP even knew but didn't have enough to do anything. Well, now you do and this isn't the first time this has happened.
If you want the AT to be anything but a farce you need to come down super hard. ...Everyone knew this was going on. We called it. I called it. I also said they played it very well, I stand by that. I sent CCP logibro a mail halfway through the tournament outlining what I thought was going on.... Let's go back to this for a second, because I find it ****ing astonishing. Was this an email or an evemail, can we see it?
I'd rather not make that public, as a courtesy to CCP. I mentioned it because logibro knows i sent it, I actually sent two over the span of two weeks about it. All I will say is the content was almost the same as what I posted in my OP, except included was my suspicions about what was going on, which match almost exactly to DHB's statement.
I know this isnt really good enough, but CCP can't act without proof. If they get that proof, I hope they take what I sent them into account. |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
75
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:19:15 -
[99] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"?? This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously? Pretty sure the AT is for the rich and the cheaters....
I really dont want it to be. I've been involved in the tourney since 2005. i was part of a really small team in my first year, and I remember the nerves, excitement, and joy which came with winning matches as an underdog.
I've become reasonably close with a few of these underdog teams this year, and I WANT them to do well, they deserve to with all the effort they put in. The rules CAN be changed to let these kind of teams flourish, and they should be, because that is the kind of tournament drama we want, not this crap.. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1834
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:20:58 -
[100] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Leonardo Adami wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"?? This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously? Pretty sure the AT is for the rich and the cheaters.... I really dont want it to be. I've been involved in the tourney since 2005. i was part of a really small team in my first year, and I remember the nerves, excitement, and joy which came with winning matches as an underdog. I've become reasonably close with a few of these underdog teams this year, and I WANT them to do well, they deserve to with all the effort they put in. The rules CAN be changed to let these kind of teams flourish, and they should be, because that is the kind of tournament drama we want, not this crap..
I dunno. This is pretty good drama.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
75
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:25:56 -
[101] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Leonardo Adami wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"?? This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously? Pretty sure the AT is for the rich and the cheaters.... I really dont want it to be. I've been involved in the tourney since 2005. i was part of a really small team in my first year, and I remember the nerves, excitement, and joy which came with winning matches as an underdog. I've become reasonably close with a few of these underdog teams this year, and I WANT them to do well, they deserve to with all the effort they put in. The rules CAN be changed to let these kind of teams flourish, and they should be, because that is the kind of tournament drama we want, not this crap.. I dunno. This is pretty good drama.
Yeah it is, but then some of us care about the tournament too, and its not worth the frustration seeing this bullshit play out during the tournament, for the chance for a bit of hydra evasion trolling afterwards. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
Tactical Narcotics Team
156
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:26:48 -
[102] - Quote
Ruh Roh, chatlog removed by ISD |
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
286
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:32:20 -
[103] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Ruh Roh, chatlog removed by ISD
it's mirrored like 10 places, show some gumption |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
Tactical Narcotics Team
156
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:39:16 -
[104] - Quote
Faife wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Ruh Roh, chatlog removed by ISD it's mirrored like 10 places, show some gumption
Who says reddit doesn't have a reason to exist? |
Dancul1001
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
54
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:43:25 -
[105] - Quote
If this turns out to be true CCP better remove some ships, banning people from next years tourney doesnt do **** to combat the current problem plus its already happened to hydra in the past and that changed nothing |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:46:10 -
[106] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Leonardo Adami wrote:Hahaha, people are really surprised....? no I'm not surprised, yet once one speaks the truth I want to see bans and max effort from CCP to make the tournament the way they pretend to (i.e. enforcing their B-team rule). Or remove all rules regarding meta play and see what happens. Quote:Nothing in eve is fair so what do you suggest? remove EULA all together, stop balancing things - Eve isn't fair.
I don't care what CCP does. It's clear they play favorites for players/corporations/alliances. And as far as fairness, Eve is a game that encourages its player base to cheat and exploit others. Doing this creates a certain culture in eve so good game to them for winning by any means needed. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1955
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:59:43 -
[107] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:
Yeah it is, but then some of us care about the tournament too, and its not worth the frustration seeing this bullshit play out during the tournament, for the chance for a bit of hydra evasion trolling afterwards.
I agree -- the people involved should be exempt from the rules because of who they are.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Taraas Enko
Hax.
Shadow Cartel
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:59:53 -
[108] - Quote
I lost 20 bil betting on PL to win outright this is an out rage please refund my Isk |
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
449
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 02:12:04 -
[109] - Quote
Taraas Enko wrote:I lost 20 bil betting on PL to win outright this is an out rage please refund my Isk
Please refund my moracha :( |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
1238
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 02:33:43 -
[110] - Quote
I have known DHB Wildcat since we befriended each other in late 2005. He was FC for Huzzah Federation and I was a FC for Firmus Ixion. Lots of spirited fights with fun and respectful banter in local. Did alot of roaming with Wildcat back in the day and then played together a long time when he was Burn Eden. This is what I know about Wildcat ( I say this with affection because he is a old friend) "Wildcat is the last of the Honorbound F#gg*ts left in EVE". Think it's sad that Hydra did the predictable SMEAR POST after Wildcat manned up and told the truth.
PS. Wildcat you have my vouch for PL.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
1239
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 02:44:38 -
[111] - Quote
Gonna poke Logibro with this but the proof is easy. Look at the item ID# on the Cambions & Malice fielded by Camel and just look where those items have been~
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
136
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 02:47:17 -
[112] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:Gonna poke Logibro with this but the proof is easy. Look at the item ID# on the Cambions & Malice fielded by Camel and just look where those items have been~
Go back to space student council, nerd.
jk, love you manny
but not jk, csm is worthless |
Makhpella
Bad Taste.
41
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 03:17:40 -
[113] - Quote
In Formula 1 this is common strategy.... thats why F1 sucks. |
Caligula Gaius Claudian
Futurikon Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 04:51:44 -
[114] - Quote
Waiting for Bluemelon's comments. He had an interview after the AT as a winnner side reoresentative describing what caused them to won this Tournament. Wonder if was "aware" of the deal, knowing his activity in consolidating at ships in his hands. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
1240
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 04:55:36 -
[115] - Quote
MissBolyai wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Gonna poke Logibro with this but the proof is easy. Look at the item ID# on the Cambions & Malice fielded by Camel and just look where those items have been~ Go back to space student council, nerd. jk, love you manny but not jk, csm is worthless
Was making the joke a few weeks ago to CCP Falcon: " The CSM is much like the CIA. The community knows all of our failures and none of our success's ".
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Dravyan
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 05:28:30 -
[116] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Dravyan wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:So lets see everyone on the teams banned from future AT's. All prizes siezed. We all knew they were Hydra A and Hydra B from the get go. CCP even knew but didn't have enough to do anything. Well, now you do and this isn't the first time this has happened.
If you want the AT to be anything but a farce you need to come down super hard. ...Everyone knew this was going on. We called it. I called it. I also said they played it very well, I stand by that. I sent CCP logibro a mail halfway through the tournament outlining what I thought was going on.... Let's go back to this for a second, because I find it ****ing astonishing. Was this an email or an evemail, can we see it? I'd rather not make that public, as a courtesy to CCP. I mentioned it because logibro knows i sent it, I actually sent two over the span of two weeks about it. All I will say is the content was almost the same as what I posted in my OP, except included was my suspicions about what was going on, which match almost exactly to DHB's statement. I know this isnt really good enough, but CCP can't act without proof. If they get that proof, I hope they take what I sent them into account.
I think it would probably be wise for CCP Logibro to be as transparent as possible on what was brought to his attention when and what was done with that information. The amount of punitive measures taken against "no shows", despite the light sanctions given to the current transgressors for previous cheating in the past, is a little disturbing. At some point you have to wonder if certain members of the CCP team are acting appropriately, and if its appropriate for them to stay employed. |
Mark Hadden
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
62
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 05:30:21 -
[117] - Quote
AT is ****. Glad, I completely missed it this year, turns out it was for good haha.
I'm also sure CCP will do nothing to fix it. Maybe its a better idea to completely scrap the tournament (after removing this year prizes all together), since prevention and investigation of stuff like described by DHB is almost impossible. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1392
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 05:39:45 -
[118] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"?? This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously?
If I'm not completely mistaken it was PL that abused locator agents leaking ship information to cheat in past tournaments.
.
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Brave Collective
1962
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 06:22:43 -
[119] - Quote
So...both teams who share their prizes anyway, arranged the last fights of the AT?
How does that make sense? If the prizes are shared anyway, what's the point of going through all this trouble?
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
2768
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 06:38:30 -
[120] - Quote
I feel like you're all being trolled really hard.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Black Hydra Consortium.
1994
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 06:54:15 -
[121] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:I feel like you're all being trolled really hard.
This whole thing doesn't add up. Staging matches when prizes are agreed to be split. A giant smear post with no mention of the chat logs. This is basically a list of how not to cheat.
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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NinjaTurtle
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
98
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 07:45:05 -
[122] - Quote
Rive called it guys
he's so smart
I do things.
http://declarationsofwar.com
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ElDiablo DelRojo
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 08:04:02 -
[123] - Quote
95% of this was already known by everyone who participates in the AT seriously and new what to look for. Nothing new here. We were watching the first round of camels / warlords on twitch and it was laughably obvious that the 2nd match (of the quarters, not finals) was staged. Fantastically good pilots suddenly flying like retards, lol nope.
What's interesting is that DHB has posted evidence of violations of the rules which are otherwise hard to prove conclusively; and theoretically will act as whistleblower. CCPs move, if any. Probably none, though I 100% agree with Mr Rive's earlier commentary and suggestions.
Personally, I don't give a **** about what they did. Everyone who takes the AT seriously (yeah, lol, we're dumb but this is our end game content), knew it was the case and this changes nothing. Garmon, whatever; fixing matches, lol yup, whatever. Warlords beat our (Exodus') asses fairly. As did Camel. Hats off to them both. They out flew and out crafted us and they're deserving champions in my book. Though I understand PL's perspective of facing 2 versions of the same team is harder than 1; there's just nothing you can do about two teams practicing and working together.
I've accepted the fact that with the massive proliferation of AT ships in the final AT weekend that the best any team other than PL, Hydra, and Camel can do is 4th. Yeah, we could rat all year for a 1T isk AT ship fund and try to compete, so sure, its a level field or something. But we're not going to, and I'm fine with that. We didn't lose b/c of AT ships though; we lost b/c we were out flown and out comped. I still like competing for 4th - welcome to EVE. Its never been a fair game, and the AT isn't a fair field. HTFU, deal with it, or go play LoL.
That said, respect for DHB for owning up to the cheating. Takes a lot to admit you cheated, so, respect mate. |
Callduron
Kite Co. Space Trucking
Brave Collective
621
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 08:22:02 -
[124] - Quote
There's a simple elegant player-driven solution to this:
If you fly for Warlords or Camel and you believe DHB Wildcat then leave.
Make a new team based on high competitive standards and integrity.
Many of the players involved in this have outstanding reputations - eg Chessur, Suitonia, Bluemelon - so if you don't want to be on a team that cheats, don't want to risk being permabanned or disqualified simply ditch the cheats and go your own way.
I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/
I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
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Citricioni
Stille Gewalt
Dead Terrorists
1933
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 08:29:14 -
[125] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:Gonna poke Logibro with this but the proof is easy. Look at the item ID# on the Cambions & Malice fielded by Camel and just look where those items have been~
Where is the problem in sharing ships? oO
Donnerstag 10.09. - 20:00 MESZ (18:00 EVE Time) - T1 Armor Cruiser
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Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
896
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 08:31:00 -
[126] - Quote
Citricioni wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Gonna poke Logibro with this but the proof is easy. Look at the item ID# on the Cambions & Malice fielded by Camel and just look where those items have been~ Where is the problem in sharing ships? oO
There is none
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
85
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 09:12:07 -
[127] - Quote
ElDiablo DelRojo wrote:95% of this was already known by everyone who participates in the AT seriously and new what to look for. Nothing new here. We were watching the first round of camels / warlords on twitch and it was laughably obvious that the 2nd match (of the quarters, not finals) was staged. Fantastically good pilots suddenly flying like retards, lol nope.
What's interesting is that DHB has posted evidence of violations of the rules which are otherwise hard to prove conclusively; and theoretically will act as whistleblower. CCPs move, if any. Probably none, though I 100% agree with Mr Rive's earlier commentary and suggestions.
Personally, I don't give a **** about what they did. Everyone who takes the AT seriously (yeah, lol, we're dumb but this is our end game content), knew it was the case and this changes nothing. Garmon, whatever; fixing matches, lol yup, whatever. Warlords beat our (Exodus') asses fairly. As did Camel. Hats off to them both. They out flew and out crafted us and they're deserving champions in my book. Though I understand PL's perspective of facing 2 versions of the same team is harder than 1; there's just nothing you can do about two teams practicing and working together.
I've accepted the fact that with the massive proliferation of AT ships in the final AT weekend that the best any team other than PL, Hydra, and Camel can do is 4th. Yeah, we could rat all year for a 1T isk AT ship fund and try to compete, so sure, its a level field or something. But we're not going to, and I'm fine with that. We didn't lose b/c of AT ships though; we lost b/c we were out flown and out comped. I still like competing for 4th - welcome to EVE. Its never been a fair game, and the AT isn't a fair field. HTFU, deal with it, or go play LoL.
That said, respect for DHB for owning up to the cheating. Takes a lot to admit you cheated, so, respect mate.
see this is how you make a sincere post guys. Hydra should take lessons :3 |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
85
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 09:23:25 -
[128] - Quote
Querns wrote:Mr Rive wrote:
Yeah it is, but then some of us care about the tournament too, and its not worth the frustration seeing this bullshit play out during the tournament, for the chance for a bit of hydra evasion trolling afterwards.
I agree -- the people involved should be exempt from the rules because of who they are.
Hold the phone. No one is saying they should be exempt. You know the game they were playing almost as well as I do, youre obviously not stupid, throwing this in my face isnt going to get a rise from me.
Again, they deserve to be punished, but throwing the book at them will do nothing but invonvenience them. Banning them just means they have to train a few alts for a year. My suggestion of splitting the prizes up more evenly means we aren't getting an advantage, and they lose some of theirs. It also pulls more teams in to the AT ship pool 'family'.
Of course everyone is pissed off about this. Understandably. I and others have been sure about it for at least a year. Maybe we're coming at this from a more clear headed angle? |
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
896
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 09:34:49 -
[129] - Quote
Yall should tune done the witch hunt a bit, there is no proof provided yet.
For example the claim that fits were changed to avoid tactic leaks is provably wrong with exact same fits used during the matches in question and the finals.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/48759206/ Typhoon aug 29
https://zkillboard.com/kill/48785604/ Typhoon aug 30
Literally same fit except to the additional utility high.
Also its not entirely impossible that that conversation from chat logs could have taken place under circumstances where no collusion happened if it wasnt forged in the first place.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/48760118/ Oneiros aug 29
https://zkillboard.com/kill/48785670/ Oneiros aug 30
RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3322
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 10:11:41 -
[130] - Quote
These revelations are shocking and such behaviour is totally unacceptable in Eve Online, the game of honourable fair fights and gentlemanly conduct.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Unagi Tatsumaki
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 10:30:44 -
[131] - Quote
ElDiablo DelRojo wrote:
Personally, I don't give a **** about what they did. Everyone who takes the AT seriously (yeah, lol, we're dumb but this is our end game content), knew it was the case and this changes nothing. Garmon, whatever; fixing matches, lol yup, whatever. Warlords beat our (Exodus') asses fairly. As did Camel. Hats off to them both. They out flew and out crafted us and they're deserving champions in my book. Though I understand PL's perspective of facing 2 versions of the same team is harder than 1; there's just nothing you can do about two teams practicing and working together.
This is true they did out fly and out comp people. However, They are essentially the same team and they shared assests etc and the let a BANNED Camel pilot sub in the hydra team. If they were treated as one team you guys would be up a rank on the winners board. I was in horde during the AT and none of the PL alts were involved in the AT team at all from what i can tell. Besides like coaching/advice its all on the horde pilots to make the comps and practice getting good. I hear its the same with waffles. PL keeps them at an arms length because of waffles not being allowed to compete a few years ago. It doesnt change much but you wouldnt compete for 4th it would be competing for 3-4 which is enough room to move higher the next year. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
336
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 11:20:04 -
[132] - Quote
Armor Hacs, ARMOR hacs, ARRRRRMOR HACS!!!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-kGGW0UlPA
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1964
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 11:46:41 -
[133] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Querns wrote:Mr Rive wrote:
Yeah it is, but then some of us care about the tournament too, and its not worth the frustration seeing this bullshit play out during the tournament, for the chance for a bit of hydra evasion trolling afterwards.
I agree -- the people involved should be exempt from the rules because of who they are. Hold the phone. No one is saying they should be exempt. You know the game they were playing almost as well as I do, youre obviously not stupid, throwing this in my face isnt going to get a rise from me. Again, they deserve to be punished, but throwing the book at them will do nothing but invonvenience them. Banning them just means they have to train a few alts for a year. My suggestion of splitting the prizes up more evenly means we aren't getting an advantage, and they lose some of theirs. It also pulls more teams in to the AT ship pool 'family'. Of course everyone is pissed off about this. Understandably. I and others have been sure about it for at least a year. Maybe we're coming at this from a more clear headed angle?
I think you're underestimating the ability for CCP to enforce a ban. While it wouldn't be perfect, blacklisting all their accounts, their machine IDs, and the /24 of their IP would probably work fairly well. To subvert that, they'd have to start completely clean, new accounts, buy some or all of a new computer, and, depending on where they live, move.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
87
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 12:31:41 -
[134] - Quote
Querns wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Querns wrote:Mr Rive wrote:
Yeah it is, but then some of us care about the tournament too, and its not worth the frustration seeing this bullshit play out during the tournament, for the chance for a bit of hydra evasion trolling afterwards.
I agree -- the people involved should be exempt from the rules because of who they are. Hold the phone. No one is saying they should be exempt. You know the game they were playing almost as well as I do, youre obviously not stupid, throwing this in my face isnt going to get a rise from me. Again, they deserve to be punished, but throwing the book at them will do nothing but invonvenience them. Banning them just means they have to train a few alts for a year. My suggestion of splitting the prizes up more evenly means we aren't getting an advantage, and they lose some of theirs. It also pulls more teams in to the AT ship pool 'family'. Of course everyone is pissed off about this. Understandably. I and others have been sure about it for at least a year. Maybe we're coming at this from a more clear headed angle? I think you're underestimating the ability for CCP to enforce a ban. While it wouldn't be perfect, blacklisting all their accounts, their machine IDs, and the /24 of their IP would probably work fairly well. To subvert that, they'd have to start completely clean, new accounts, buy some or all of a new computer, and, depending on where they live, move.
thats not been done in the past though. If they did it would work. I still dont think a lot of them would care, most of their best pilots have more or less burned out now anyway.
Still, this doesnt actually fix anything. It doesnt change the fact that someone could still communicate with a practise partner, share all setups, and get to the finals. this is the real problem. |
Citricioni
Stille Gewalt
Dead Terrorists
1933
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 12:34:03 -
[135] - Quote
Quote:For example, if two teams that are facing each other agree together to bring setups that contain certain ships and/or do not contain other ships this will be considered a violation of the AT rules.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4683141#post4683141
Still see no problem in sharing setups pre match. If you train together, you share setups automatically, where is the problem? oO
Donnerstag 10.09. - 20:00 MESZ (18:00 EVE Time) - T1 Armor Cruiser
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1965
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 12:43:07 -
[136] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:
thats not been done in the past though. If they did it would work. I still dont think a lot of them would care, most of their best pilots have more or less burned out now anyway.
Still, this doesnt actually fix anything. It doesnt change the fact that someone could still communicate with a practise partner, share all setups, and get to the finals. this is the real problem.
Escalating punishments until the crime no longer justifies the time is pretty much their only option, outside of scrapping the Alliance Tournament altogether.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Citricioni
Stille Gewalt
Dead Terrorists
1933
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 12:47:57 -
[137] - Quote
The only question in AT is:
Dual Boxing, Tipple Boxing or Account Sharing 
C'mon Girls :'D
Donnerstag 10.09. - 20:00 MESZ (18:00 EVE Time) - T1 Armor Cruiser
|
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
87
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 12:55:37 -
[138] - Quote
Citricioni wrote:Quote:For example, if two teams that are facing each other agree together to bring setups that contain certain ships and/or do not contain other ships this will be considered a violation of the AT rules. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4683141#post4683141
Still see no problem in sharing setups pre match. If you train together, you share setups automatically, where is the problem? oO
The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong.
This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible.
This year, by reducing the number of setups they revealed, not only did hydra stop every single team from doing this, and massively reduced their chances of beating them, but they also did it with two teams, doubling their chances of getting at least one to the finals. What we ended up with was effectively the same team, except flying twice in the finals. We had to face one of them, beat them, kill their flagship, and then in a very short time period, had to face them AGAIN, have to beat them again, and kill their flagship again. Our entire team was exchausted, stressed, and put at a massive disadvantage. We had to play 6 matches against them, while they only had to play 3, as new pilots and all new ships were drafted in after the first three matches.
This is a problem in itself, but the real kicker is the fact they deliberately communicated to reduce the amount of setups shown, they deliberately communicated which bans to pick, and set out the strategy between the two teams to get them into the finals. Everything was shared, everything they did was intentional (i wouldnt be surprised if dropping one into the losers bracket was planned too). This to me, is collusion. However, not as CCP defines it. I feel this is as bad however, as sharing ships, fixing the finals (it didnt matter at that point anyway other than it saved them a bit of isk having to field more uniques), and generally doing so, so blazenly that everyone knew but could do nothing about it.
What we need to see is the proof that they fixed the final matches, and shared the winnings. Everything else is technically irellevant for the 2015 tournament. however, the collusion which is technically collusion but not really because fozzie doesnt understand how important it is, is the thing that really need to change. |
Citricioni
Stille Gewalt
Dead Terrorists
1933
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 13:01:58 -
[139] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong.
This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible.
So you want the good teams, with a large amount of time for theorycrafting, an awesome playerbase and a lot of training time, to show all the good setups in the two first weekends, that the "bad" teams get the oppurtuniy to get in a later stage of the tournament?
If you can field only one or two setups, because you know your setups are good, why should you show your better setups before you need them? oO
Donnerstag 10.09. - 20:00 MESZ (18:00 EVE Time) - T1 Armor Cruiser
|
Randolph Sykes
Method Synergy
22
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 13:18:06 -
[140] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:
This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible.
This year, by reducing the number of setups they revealed, not only did hydra stop every single team from doing this, and massively reduced their chances of beating them, but they also did it with two teams, doubling their chances of getting at least one to the finals.
So, you are basically accusing Hydra and Camel for being better than 'smaller teams'.  |
|
|
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
139
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 13:19:57 -
[141] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:I feel like you're all being trolled really hard.
Spoken like a man that had nothing to do with the tourney other than being convinced by Hendrick to be in a commercial featuring a 3-year old joke. |
Sarah xCalibre
Pod Liberation Authority
66
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 13:34:49 -
[142] - Quote
Find it funny how so many people outside Camel and Hydra know what was going on, exactly what was said and how it was done but in all honest truth you know jack ****, you can guess but that doesnt make it true. Just cause someone post a snippet of a log (that can be fake) doesnt make anything true, how about we let ccp judge this at their best, hearsayin isnt proof in any case.
However if it is true ccp it should be dealt with accordingly, everyone knew the rules when entering.
Now lets take our sticky fingers out of this messs and let ccp do their job since its not ours but theirs to do. We got a year almost to discuss improvements for next AT and it should/need to be discussed. If this is true you forget about the 90% of the pilots DHB think was legit as well stop diminishing their hard work in this.
I really like the CSM person for the AT idea but I think its hard for a single person to be totally objective if not near impossible.
" I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible."
Oh oh, so Nulli and other corps are allowed to copy Warlord setups but Camel isnt as sparring partners? Think that statement is really weird. Have any other teams that practiced against eachother been looked into about this? Hardly think so, but since its the winning team they arent allowed to, I see. Or is Nulli in the collusion as well now?! Everything you say and do here is just so PL could have a better chance next year and thats about it, you are so undermining everything, well played.
|
Jamir Von Lietuva
LDK
Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
33
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 13:53:52 -
[143] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Citricioni wrote:Quote:For example, if two teams that are facing each other agree together to bring setups that contain certain ships and/or do not contain other ships this will be considered a violation of the AT rules. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4683141#post4683141
Still see no problem in sharing setups pre match. If you train together, you share setups automatically, where is the problem? oO The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong. This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible. This year, by reducing the number of setups they revealed, not only did hydra stop every single team from doing this, and massively reduced their chances of beating them, but they also did it with two teams, doubling their chances of getting at least one to the finals. What we ended up with was effectively the same team, except flying twice in the finals. We had to face one of them, beat them, kill their flagship, and then in a very short time period, had to face them AGAIN, have to beat them again, and kill their flagship again. Our entire team was exchausted, stressed, and put at a massive disadvantage. We had to play 6 matches against them, while they only had to play 3, as new pilots and all new ships were drafted in after the first three matches. This is a problem in itself, but the real kicker is the fact they deliberately communicated to reduce the amount of setups shown, they deliberately communicated which bans to pick, and set out the strategy between the two teams to get them into the finals. Everything was shared, everything they did was intentional (i wouldnt be surprised if dropping one into the losers bracket was planned too). This to me, is collusion. However, not as CCP defines it. I feel this is as bad however, as sharing ships, fixing the finals (it didnt matter at that point anyway other than it saved them a bit of isk having to field more uniques), and generally doing so, so blazenly that everyone knew but could do nothing about it. What we need to see is the proof that they fixed the final matches, and shared the winnings. Everything else is technically irellevant for the 2015 tournament. however, the collusion which is technically collusion but not really because fozzie doesnt understand how important it is, is the thing that really need to change.
been a part of Nulli team this year, we haven't "seen" hydra setups, pretty sure anyone that has half a brain came up with TFIs on their own, main thing why we flew TFIs for most of the matches is just because that is how "The HUNs" roll, they like taking least vulnerable thing and fly/craft the **** out of it (see Triple Vargurs for a good example). We had other setups, but phoons were the safest bet.
this whole drama is great btw i'm enjoying my popcorn so far |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2202
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 13:59:56 -
[144] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Querns wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Querns wrote:Mr Rive wrote:
Yeah it is, but then some of us care about the tournament too, and its not worth the frustration seeing this bullshit play out during the tournament, for the chance for a bit of hydra evasion trolling afterwards.
I agree -- the people involved should be exempt from the rules because of who they are. Hold the phone. No one is saying they should be exempt. You know the game they were playing almost as well as I do, youre obviously not stupid, throwing this in my face isnt going to get a rise from me. Again, they deserve to be punished, but throwing the book at them will do nothing but invonvenience them. Banning them just means they have to train a few alts for a year. My suggestion of splitting the prizes up more evenly means we aren't getting an advantage, and they lose some of theirs. It also pulls more teams in to the AT ship pool 'family'. Of course everyone is pissed off about this. Understandably. I and others have been sure about it for at least a year. Maybe we're coming at this from a more clear headed angle? I think you're underestimating the ability for CCP to enforce a ban. While it wouldn't be perfect, blacklisting all their accounts, their machine IDs, and the /24 of their IP would probably work fairly well. To subvert that, they'd have to start completely clean, new accounts, buy some or all of a new computer, and, depending on where they live, move. thats not been done in the past though. If they did it would work. I still dont think a lot of them would care, most of their best pilots have more or less burned out now anyway. Still, this doesnt actually fix anything. It doesnt change the fact that someone could still communicate with a practise partner, share all setups, and get to the finals. this is the real problem.
Would people be willing to risk losing their account and assets over it once a precedent is set that cheating in the AT will get you banned? If you set an example, you might actually make some people think twice before they work on such scheme. |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
89
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:00:18 -
[145] - Quote
Citricioni wrote:Mr Rive wrote:The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong.
This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible. So you want the good teams, with a large amount of time for theorycrafting, an awesome playerbase and a lot of training time, to show all the good setups in the two first weekends, that the "bad" teams get the oppurtuniy to get in a later stage of the tournament? If you can field only one or two setups, because you know your setups are good, why should you show your better setups before you need them? oO
When did i say i wanted the 'good' teams to show all their best setups? This isnt how the tournament works, friend. Look at PL. We fielded several, mid tier, strong setups in the opening weeks. First, they took hundreds of hours to test, and second, there is no way a smaller team has the time or the pilots to test the amount of variety we showed even in the first few weeks properly and get it nailed. We didnt show ANY of our strongest setups until at least the semis. They were all reasonably good teams which we thought we could rely on to get us into the semis.
Hydra showed one. They could afford to, because they had two teams running it. They could rely on their pilots to pull them through it. It's risky yeah, but everyone knows hydra are a good team. This is what irks me so much. They don't need to do this kind of collusion **** to place well in the tourney, they do it to make money. They took the risk of not showing anything, to not give anything away to the smaller teams, drastically reducing those teams chances of getting further up the rankings.
Look at past tournaments, look at teams like the huns, or exodus, or shadow cartel, they have awesome pilots, and when they placed highly, and gave the best matches, the best drama, and the best upsets, coming close to placing, they did so by copying other teams setups and absolutely nailing the piloting. When hydra started pulling this ****, they stood far less of a chance. Only teams who can dedicate thousands of hours have a chance to place now, and the small teams with the good pilots, the good captains, and who put just as much effort in as we did, dont get to place because they only have 20 pilots instead of 60.
As for the Nulli argument, Nulli, to my knowledge, did not intentionally tell each other to fly the same setups every match. Go look at what they fielded compared to hydra, and you will see they had no such agreement, they were both in it to win. The problem was they were using teams copied from hydra, who only showed one team of nulli's and Hk's entire tournament this year. There's a difference there, I dont really care if you don't see it alt corp guy.
The problem is, a lot of people in this thread don't follow the tournament enough, dont get into the meta enough, and dont understand what is going on enough to really get how much **** like this hurts the tournament. Not all of you are nerds like me, I get it. Most of you know something is wrong, something is unfair, but when you really get into it there is a lot more going on than on the surface, and unless I was to spend 3 hours writing a post of everything that has gone on over the last 5 years in tournament history from someone who was heavily involved in the meta, spending hundreds of hours on it, then I'm afraid you're either going to have to go do the research yourselves, or trust me. Or, keep believing whatever you like because 'you dont like PL'. Nothing I have said so far is about PL.
|
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
139
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:08:01 -
[146] - Quote
Sarah xCalibre wrote:Find it funny how so many people outside Camel and Hydra know what was going on, exactly what was said and how it was done but in all honest truth you know jack ****, you can guess but that doesnt make it true. Just cause someone post a snippet of a log (that can be fake) doesnt make anything true, how about we let ccp judge this at their best, hearsayin isnt proof in any case.
However if it is true ccp it should be dealt with accordingly, everyone knew the rules when entering.
Now lets take our sticky fingers out of this messs and let ccp do their job since its not ours but theirs to do. We got a year almost to discuss improvements for next AT and it should/need to be discussed. If this is true you forget about the 90% of the pilots DHB think was legit as well stop diminishing their hard work in this.
I really like the CSM person for the AT idea but I think its hard for a single person to be totally objective if not near impossible.
" I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible."
Oh oh, so Nulli and other corps are allowed to copy Warlord setups but Camel isnt as sparring partners? Think that statement is really weird. Have any other teams that practiced against eachother been looked into about this? Hardly think so, but since its the winning team they arent allowed to, I see. Or is Nulli in the collusion as well now?! Everything you say and do here is just so PL could have a better chance next year and thats about it, you are so undermining everything, well played.
lmao what? I think you've missed something. We never claimed to know exactly what they were doing (OK, Rive did, but in fairness he claims that he had a better idea for the wheel, so take his comments with a silo of salt). The reason that we (and I can say 'we' as I'm the official voice of the PL Tournament team) have said from the outset that they colluded is because we knew enough of the meta to recognize how small variations of a team would impact the matches, and when we saw it, it was obvious. Much like the trained weatherman that sees a thunderstorm in Africa and knows that it will become a hurricane in the Atlantic, our expert team could see the minor tweaks Hydra and Camel used as the true indicators that they were colluding. Sorry if you don't get it, it takes a trained eye.
The Official Stance of PL on this is that we got outplayed by both Hydra and Camel, and that they out-performed us on the final day. However, if you think that they didn't have an advantage because they had to beat us in 50% of their matches against us or that we had to beat them in 66% of our matches against them, then... well, I've got some land I'd like to sell you. |
Blast x
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:08:49 -
[147] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYE8eCXfcM8
01:25:58 web/dmg on water ubersnot
01:26:02 reps apply
4seconds
01:26:58 TP on other chremoa
01:27:01 dmg registeres
01:27:02 reps active
4seconds
02:26:36 tp active on vulture wildcat
02:26:39 pre reps active
3-4seconds
03:50:50 target painter on lord carlos
03:50:54 pre reps active
4seconds
03:50:39 tp on leokokim
03:50:42 dmg registers
03:50:44 reps land
4-5seconds
03:50:51 leokim dies
03:50:52 dmg on gvjak
03:50:54 reps land
3-4seconds
(bouth warlords and camel logies reactions)
above looks NOT "fake"
below looks "fake"
04:27:20 webs on stiletto
04:27:28 pre reps active
8seconds
04:27:58 web achiles bomber
8seconds
04:28:06 pre repped
04:28:14 dmg registers on achiles
04:28:17 web on dreynar
04:28:18 dmg registeres on dreynar
5seconds
04:28:23 reps take off achiles
3seconds
04:28:26 reps active on dreynar
logi actions take 2x time + general confusion in the final last match?
30mins earlier was fine.
|
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
89
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:10:28 -
[148] - Quote
Jamir Von Lietuva wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Citricioni wrote:Quote:For example, if two teams that are facing each other agree together to bring setups that contain certain ships and/or do not contain other ships this will be considered a violation of the AT rules. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4683141#post4683141
Still see no problem in sharing setups pre match. If you train together, you share setups automatically, where is the problem? oO The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong. This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible. This year, by reducing the number of setups they revealed, not only did hydra stop every single team from doing this, and massively reduced their chances of beating them, but they also did it with two teams, doubling their chances of getting at least one to the finals. What we ended up with was effectively the same team, except flying twice in the finals. We had to face one of them, beat them, kill their flagship, and then in a very short time period, had to face them AGAIN, have to beat them again, and kill their flagship again. Our entire team was exchausted, stressed, and put at a massive disadvantage. We had to play 6 matches against them, while they only had to play 3, as new pilots and all new ships were drafted in after the first three matches. This is a problem in itself, but the real kicker is the fact they deliberately communicated to reduce the amount of setups shown, they deliberately communicated which bans to pick, and set out the strategy between the two teams to get them into the finals. Everything was shared, everything they did was intentional (i wouldnt be surprised if dropping one into the losers bracket was planned too). This to me, is collusion. However, not as CCP defines it. I feel this is as bad however, as sharing ships, fixing the finals (it didnt matter at that point anyway other than it saved them a bit of isk having to field more uniques), and generally doing so, so blazenly that everyone knew but could do nothing about it. What we need to see is the proof that they fixed the final matches, and shared the winnings. Everything else is technically irellevant for the 2015 tournament. however, the collusion which is technically collusion but not really because fozzie doesnt understand how important it is, is the thing that really need to change. been a part of Nulli team this year, we haven't "seen" hydra setups, pretty sure anyone that has half a brain came up with TFIs on their own, main thing why we flew TFIs for most of the matches is just because that is how "The HUNs" roll, they like taking least vulnerable thing and fly/craft the **** out of it (see Triple Vargurs for a good example). We had other setups, but phoons were the safest bet. this whole drama is great btw i'm enjoying my popcorn so far
haha keep evading. I know you were practising TFI teams at the start, I know that those teams were found sub par when hydra brought their TFI team, I know you reshuffled your TFI team and i know you tested the only other setup hydra fielded the DAY after hydra fielded it. You know when I was sat on the station? Yeah.
Don't get me wrong, the huns are great pilots, but you're not the best theorycrafters. You deserve to place high, and I know what you were doing with HK this year was all above board. I'm not coming at you. We're rivals, but think objectively about this. You know you were thoroughly testing hydra setups, you know you modified your teams heavily after the first few games you played. Yeah huns tested tfis beforehand to their credit, but they didnt exactly invent the idea, you copied it from the non ccp tournaments. TFI teams, quite frankly, are mid tier, theyre okay, but they're a pretty small rock in the game of rock paper scissors lizard spock which is the final few days.
My worry is huns will take what they did this year, which was fair enough, and start to get more shady, with a lot of other teams, and start doing this kind of thing more and more. You don't need to, it stinks, ruins the tournament. Huns can place well without the need for doing this kind of ****. The times you beat us, you deserved it. There's nothing wrong with copying teams, and huns are the best at it out there. |
Hoodie Mafia
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
47
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:11:20 -
[149] - Quote
Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
89
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:25:45 -
[150] - Quote
Hoodie Mafia wrote:Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive
uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3.
No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why. |
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Hoodie Mafia
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
47
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:28:56 -
[151] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Hoodie Mafia wrote:Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3. No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why.
You are tunnelvisioning Rive, I don't fly for Nulli |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
89
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:31:54 -
[152] - Quote
Hoodie Mafia wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Hoodie Mafia wrote:Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3. No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why. You are tunnelvisioning Rive, I don't fly for Nulli
no but you fly with them. The difference between the two of you, is I think HK has better theorycrafters. You two were a dangerous combination together. We were almost as scared of you as we were of hydra, if you had played the game a little differently it would have been you two on the top and us in third. Unfortunately for you, you didnt play dirty enough. |
Hoodie Mafia
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
47
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:34:16 -
[153] - Quote
Guess well just have to play better next year eh? |
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
295
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:39:58 -
[154] - Quote
overpunishment or riot |
Skyler Hawk
Boars on Parade
The Tuskers Co.
47
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:43:38 -
[155] - Quote
This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament. |
Tzuko1
FREE GATES
FREE GATES COALITION
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:52:33 -
[156] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Hoodie Mafia wrote:Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3. No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why.
We used typhoons since practice day 2. Its our weakness we havemt practiced ECM well enough so you got us there.... dont vision in we copy paste only jesus.... if you had intel enough, you could have known we had TFIs very early. We couldnt get anything special out this year unfortunatelly. AND most importantly null team wasnt HUN for most part now, we had a lot nulli dudes in but mostly from one corp.
And i am sorry rive but you are part of the AT problem with your spying all the time. If you had enough intel as you say so than your win wasnt Clear just like the mentioned two teams....
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:08:01 -
[157] - Quote
Skyler Hawk wrote:This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament.
i never said they were lesser teams, i never said they didnt theorycraft their own setups, they have to, what i said was the smaller teams dont have the manpower to spend thousands of hours testing dozens of iterations of dozens of setups to come up with the entire meta chain. I never said double floon comps weren't solid for the opening rounds, i said they were a small rock in the later rounds. |
Joe Public
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:11:01 -
[158] - Quote
I don't know why you are all wasting your time shitting up this terrible thread.
Haven't you got an Alliance Tournament to prepare for? |
Citricioni
Stille Gewalt
Dead Terrorists
1933
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:12:47 -
[159] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Skyler Hawk wrote:This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament. i never said they were lesser teams, i never said they didnt theorycraft their own setups, they have to, what i said was the smaller teams dont have the manpower to spend thousands of hours testing dozens of iterations of dozens of setups to come up with the entire meta chain. I never said double floon comps weren't solid for the opening rounds, i said they were a small rock in the later rounds.
PLs first loss in the AT, was against a "Typhoon + Typhoon Fleet" Setup, so you lost the first match against a "small rock"
Donnerstag 10.09. - 20:00 MESZ (18:00 EVE Time) - T1 Armor Cruiser
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:13:33 -
[160] - Quote
Tzuko1 wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Hoodie Mafia wrote:Looking at your comments I think you wasted a lot of time on our undock Rive uh huh. The beauty of being a theorycrafter for 8 years is you get to know how people run their teams almost as well as they do. Why do you think you got smashed so hard this year by us after last year's performance? Hint: I was busy last year :3. No h8 though, you guys did nothing wrong, you deserved to place higher, and your piloting was good. If the rules dont change, we might have to talk if nulli aren't around for next year. Who knows? If we get to talking, I might show you how much intel we actually had on you, maybe even why. We used typhoons since practice day 2. Its our weakness we havemt practiced ECM well enough so you got us there.... dont vision in we copy paste only jesus.... if you had intel enough, you could have known we had TFIs very early. We couldnt get anything special out this year unfortunatelly. AND most importantly null team wasnt HUN for most part now, we had a lot nulli dudes in but mostly from one corp. And i am sorry rive but you are part of the AT problem with your spying all the time. If you had enough intel as you say so than your win wasnt Clear just like the mentioned two teams....
If you read the other post I wrote, you would see exactly what I said about you having tfi teams from the start.
I had a lot more intel than you think, but as to how we got it, ive been told to keep you guessing. I wanted to smug about it. Oh well.
I goddamn HATE spying, I HATE raivi for bringing this kind of crap into the game. I hate doing it, i hate others doing it to us, I have always said that. The problem is you have to spy to place well, we may well have still beaten you without spying, whose to say, all i can say is that without the spying we would never have beaten you so convincingly. I stepped up this year and did it because everyone had their fingers in their butts. If you read my post history in this thread, and get what I mean, you wont be able to deny that I'm right on most counts.
To be frank, I dont particularly like huns, not because I think you're stupid, or because I think your bad, but because posting like you did above just shows to me you're not mature enough to understand how the tournament has and always has worked. I want it to change, I really do. I sincerely hope next year will be better with the bubbles.
That all being said, youre a reasonably solid opponent, and I respect what you have done over the years for the alliances you were in. |
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:14:33 -
[161] - Quote
Joe Public wrote:I don't know why you are all wasting your time shitting up this terrible thread.
Haven't you got an Alliance Tournament to prepare for?
Yeah we have to start choosing who we are going to share all our setups and prizes with and what setups to bring every match~ |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:15:24 -
[162] - Quote
Citricioni wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Skyler Hawk wrote:This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament. i never said they were lesser teams, i never said they didnt theorycraft their own setups, they have to, what i said was the smaller teams dont have the manpower to spend thousands of hours testing dozens of iterations of dozens of setups to come up with the entire meta chain. I never said double floon comps weren't solid for the opening rounds, i said they were a small rock in the later rounds. PLs first loss in the AT, was against a "Typhoon + Typhoon Fleet" Setup, so you lost the first match against a "small rock"
Yep. Small rocks can break windows when aimed well and are unexpected. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
721
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:16:25 -
[163] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:but because posting like you did above just shows to me you're not mature enough to understand how the tournament has and always has worked
lmbo i almost can't believe you typed this |
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
94
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:25:43 -
[164] - Quote
How hard is it to just keep the teams separate on tourney days and actually fight it out?
Teams testing together seems fine to me. But sharing all setups, tourney ships, and even coordinating what to do on match days seems like a bit much.
Also Rive, stop going full ****** in here.
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Dancul1001
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
56
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:26:15 -
[165] - Quote
i woke up this morning to read everyones reactions now im too invested in these great mrrive posts to stop reading |
Rn Bonnet
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
21
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 15:35:01 -
[166] - Quote
Shamis Orzoz wrote:How hard is it to just keep the teams separate on tourney days and actually fight it out?
Teams testing together seems fine to me. But sharing all setups, tourney ships, and even coordinating what to do on match days seems like a bit much.
Also Rive, stop going full ****** in here.
****, testing together should be encouraged. It brings the overall quality of the tournament way up.
But prize splitting will ruin the tournament. It's the prisoners dilemma, the best choice is always cooperation not competition. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1864
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:06:33 -
[167] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Citricioni wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Skyler Hawk wrote:This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament. i never said they were lesser teams, i never said they didnt theorycraft their own setups, they have to, what i said was the smaller teams dont have the manpower to spend thousands of hours testing dozens of iterations of dozens of setups to come up with the entire meta chain. I never said double floon comps weren't solid for the opening rounds, i said they were a small rock in the later rounds. PLs first loss in the AT, was against a "Typhoon + Typhoon Fleet" Setup, so you lost the first match against a "small rock" Yep. Small rocks can break windows when aimed well and are unexpected.
You are falling into the hubris trap. You believe that your depth of experience and intimate knowledge of this specific process means that no one else can understand how it all works. People don't need to understand the minutia to understand cheating. It doesn't matter how many different ways you can cheat or how deep and engrossing the meta of cheating is. Cheating is cheating. The AT is supposed to be the one pure place for this sorta PVP. A large part of why we have no interest in it. Not that we don't think it is a cool thing for EVE. But, we are just here for empire building. Not leet pvp.
Again, if it was their first time your arguments for mercy might be acceptable. Unfortunately, this is the fool CCP twice point. If the AT is to have even a semblance of fair competition they need to get hit with a very huge stick. Same reason we don't dunk CCP again with Forex. We can, we know the math and the algo. We don't because they already said don't and it is bannable.
Once you get punished for something once, then rewarned and you do it anyway you deserve to get a harsh punishment.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1052
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:10:21 -
[168] - Quote
wonder how many times hydra bunch of scumbags has to ruin the AT before they receive a life ban. Assumed there will be another AT at all. |
Joe Public
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:17:36 -
[169] - Quote
Rn Bonnet wrote:But prize splitting will ruin the tournament.
What people do with the proceeds of a tournament win is up to them.
It's entirely outside of the scope of any tournament rules.
I don't see it ruining the tournament either, since you still need to be able to win a prize for any such deal to matter and I don't know many tournament pilots who wouldn't prefer a gold medal to a silver one. |
Joe Public
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:22:39 -
[170] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:wonder how many times hydra bunch of scumbags has to ruin the AT before they receive a life ban. Assumed there will be another AT at all.
I thought this year's AT was one of the best yet. So I don't know how you figure that it was ruined.
Sure, we screwed up IX, but we've been punished for that already. |
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:26:05 -
[171] - Quote
Shamis Orzoz wrote:
Also Rive, stop going full ****** in here.
are you steppin bro? |
Swind
FREE GATES
FREE GATES COALITION
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:50:03 -
[172] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:wonder how many times hydra bunch of scumbags has to ruin the AT before they receive a life ban. Assumed there will be another AT at all.
and Chessur (hydra) aka CCP Hannibal will commentating it in stream with his CCP friends.
left hand, right hand. |
Tzuko1
FREE GATES
FREE GATES COALITION
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:50:11 -
[173] - Quote
So mr rive hates the entire HUN community becouse what i posted :)
I know how things works, and if i had someone whos willing to do what u did this year, sure do it for the team. THIS still doesnt mean i have to like it. But if you tell me who was the traitor with evidence i help pl next year. Deal ? :D |
Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
450
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:55:07 -
[174] - Quote
MissBolyai wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:I feel like you're all being trolled really hard. Spoken like a man that had nothing to do with the tourney other than being convinced by Hendrick to be in a commercial featuring a 3-year old joke.
Woah, it was Manny's idea to use that joke. Don't blame me for it.
EVE Online Weekly & Monthly Nullsec Recaps | EVE Streams
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Valkin Mordirc
1474
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:05:13 -
[175] - Quote
Joe Public wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:wonder how many times hydra bunch of scumbags has to ruin the AT before they receive a life ban. Assumed there will be another AT at all. I thought this year's AT was one of the best yet. So I don't know how you figure that it was ruined. Sure, we screwed up IX, but we've been punished for that already.
I believe he is saying the prize sharing encourages trying to force matches to end is such away that both teams end up fight each other in the end. IE throwing a match so one team can have "Time to Prep" Or "Fight somebody they are confident they can win against."
Which undoubtedly it would, If I could personally give my self a little more chance to win with no repercussions I would probably take it
#DeleteTheWeak
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:14:17 -
[176] - Quote
Tzuko1 wrote:So mr rive hates the entire HUN community becouse what i posted :)
dude what are you smoking? |
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
898
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:14:27 -
[177] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Joe Public wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:wonder how many times hydra bunch of scumbags has to ruin the AT before they receive a life ban. Assumed there will be another AT at all. I thought this year's AT was one of the best yet. So I don't know how you figure that it was ruined. Sure, we screwed up IX, but we've been punished for that already. I believe he is saying the prize sharing encourages trying to force matches to end is such away that both teams end up fight each other in the end. IE throwing a match so one team can have "Time to Prep" Or "Fight somebody they are confident they can win against." Which undoubtedly it would, If I could personally give my self a little more chance to win with no repercussions I would probably take it
Of course the tournament encourages both teams to try get top placement...
thats the point of tournaments.
RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
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Ryu Chaos
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Legion
12
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Posted - 2015.09.15 17:19:16 -
[178] - Quote
so what we take out of this thread
1) rive is derailing it
2) every single goonswarm member and his mother, wants the AT finished
3) hydra camel fanbois saying its ok they did it in the final after they beat everyone (but they do not take into consideration that hydra threw their second match vs camel so they would have more time to prepare for the BO1 with tuskers and that it was predecided whoever lost the 1st match legitimately would throw the second as well)
4) noone considers the fact that they are technically 2 teams from the same entity that cooperate and that for anyone to win the tourney they need to go through 2x flagships + 20 AT ships flown by very competent people that have decided to split the winnings anyway.
aha, lets keep this going, be it a troll or the truth its funny
@RyuChaos_
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Joe Public
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:27:03 -
[179] - Quote
Ryu Chaos wrote:1) rive is derailing it
That's just the way he rolls.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1967
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:30:32 -
[180] - Quote
Ryu Chaos wrote:so what we take out of this thread
2) every single goonswarm member and his mother, wants the AT finished
Nah -- the AT has value. It (usually) is a way to get clued in on upcoming game changes. They may not have done it this year, but I've made a bundle off of it in years previous.
Also, I'm mostly hoping that CCP does nothing about the allegations. This opens up some great opportunities later.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Joe Public
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:37:27 -
[181] - Quote
Ryu Chaos wrote:noone considers the fact that they are technically 3 teams from the same entity that cooperate and that for anyone to win the tourney they need to go through 3x flagships + 30 AT ships flown by mentally handicapped people that are hell bent on getting a runners up position by any means necessary.
FYP
Snigg #1 btw. |
Ryu Chaos
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Legion
13
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Posted - 2015.09.15 17:50:42 -
[182] - Quote
Joe Public wrote:Ryu Chaos wrote:noone considers the fact that they are technically 3 teams from the same entity that cooperate and that for anyone to win the tourney they need to go through 3x flagships + 30 AT ships flown by mentally handicapped people that are hell bent on getting a runners up position by any means necessary. FYP Snigg #1 btw.
aha, last year i was Waffle captain and we did 2 wins and 2 losses, in the first match i personally flew our super pimp 1,4b flagship geddon, which i lost, but i guess those PL funds and comps didnt go to waste right?
horde and waffles deploy in different places from PL, they have their own budget and players and THEY WISH they could practice with PL but PL doesnt allow most people in the alliance to participate in the tourney testing team, let alone outsiders.
Btw the "mentally handicapped" people, have won 4 AT's and have placed in the top 3 the last 7 years and they have never threw a game or agreed with someone else to do so, like hydra with 0utbreak and now (propably) with Camel.
@RyuChaos_
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1053
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:51:19 -
[183] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I believe he is saying the prize sharing encourages trying to force matches to end is such away that both teams end up fight each other in the end. IE throwing a match so one team can have "Time to Prep" Or "Fight somebody they are confident they can win against."
no, what I'm primarily saying is that noone really wants to watch staged bullshit like a team fighting itself for show and giggles. |
Jamir Von Lietuva
LDK
Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
33
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:52:45 -
[184] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Jamir Von Lietuva wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Citricioni wrote:Quote:For example, if two teams that are facing each other agree together to bring setups that contain certain ships and/or do not contain other ships this will be considered a violation of the AT rules. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4683141#post4683141
Still see no problem in sharing setups pre match. If you train together, you share setups automatically, where is the problem? oO The problem becomes when these teams consistently bring the same setups to every match like hydra did. We saw virtually nothing from either team except TFI variations until almost the finals, or when they faced us. The reason this is so important is smaller teams tend to not have as strong a theorycrafting base, or the pilots available to run thousands of hours of tests like ourselves or hydra do. This means the smaller teams end up monitoring the bigger team's meta chain, to see what setups are likely to be strong. This is huge for the smaller teams, as copying setups is a key part of getting to the later stages of the tournament for them. It's a shortcut, it means they dont have to spend thousands of hours testing new ideas, new comps, ect. I was spying on nulli this year, watching their undock ect (no hard feelings lawl), and they are a perfect example of how a good team does it. They saw hydra's setups, and instead of spending thousands of hours making their own meta chain, they skipped a lot of steps, borrowed all of hydra's teams, and flew the hell out of them to improve them as much as possible. This year, by reducing the number of setups they revealed, not only did hydra stop every single team from doing this, and massively reduced their chances of beating them, but they also did it with two teams, doubling their chances of getting at least one to the finals. What we ended up with was effectively the same team, except flying twice in the finals. We had to face one of them, beat them, kill their flagship, and then in a very short time period, had to face them AGAIN, have to beat them again, and kill their flagship again. Our entire team was exchausted, stressed, and put at a massive disadvantage. We had to play 6 matches against them, while they only had to play 3, as new pilots and all new ships were drafted in after the first three matches. This is a problem in itself, but the real kicker is the fact they deliberately communicated to reduce the amount of setups shown, they deliberately communicated which bans to pick, and set out the strategy between the two teams to get them into the finals. Everything was shared, everything they did was intentional (i wouldnt be surprised if dropping one into the losers bracket was planned too). This to me, is collusion. However, not as CCP defines it. I feel this is as bad however, as sharing ships, fixing the finals (it didnt matter at that point anyway other than it saved them a bit of isk having to field more uniques), and generally doing so, so blazenly that everyone knew but could do nothing about it. What we need to see is the proof that they fixed the final matches, and shared the winnings. Everything else is technically irellevant for the 2015 tournament. however, the collusion which is technically collusion but not really because fozzie doesnt understand how important it is, is the thing that really need to change. been a part of Nulli team this year, we haven't "seen" hydra setups, pretty sure anyone that has half a brain came up with TFIs on their own, main thing why we flew TFIs for most of the matches is just because that is how "The HUNs" roll, they like taking least vulnerable thing and fly/craft the **** out of it (see Triple Vargurs for a good example). We had other setups, but phoons were the safest bet. this whole drama is great btw i'm enjoying my popcorn so far haha keep evading. I know you were practising TFI teams at the start, I know that those teams were found sub par when hydra brought their TFI team, I know you reshuffled your TFI team and i know you tested the only other setup hydra fielded the DAY after hydra fielded it. You know when I was sat on the station? Yeah. Don't get me wrong, the huns are great pilots, but you're not the best theorycrafters. You deserve to place high, and I know what you were doing with HK this year was all above board. I'm not coming at you. We're rivals, but think objectively about this. You know you were thoroughly testing hydra setups, you know you modified your teams heavily after the first few games you played. Yeah huns tested tfis beforehand to their credit, but they didnt exactly invent the idea, you copied it from the non ccp tournaments. TFI teams, quite frankly, are mid tier, theyre okay, but they're a pretty small rock in the game of rock paper scissors lizard spock which is the final few days. My worry is huns will take what they did this year, which was fair enough, and start to get more shady, with a lot of other teams, and start doing this kind of thing more and more. You don't need to, it stinks, ruins the tournament. Huns can place well without the need for doing this kind of ****. The times you beat us, you deserved it. There's nothing wrong with copying teams, and huns are the best at it out there.
cool |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:59:10 -
[185] - Quote
Joe Public wrote:Ryu Chaos wrote:noone considers the fact that they are technically 3 teams from the same entity that cooperate and that for anyone to win the tourney they need to go through 3x flagships + 30 AT ships flown by mentally handicapped people that are hell bent on getting a runners up position by any means necessary. FYP Snigg #1 btw.
I was hoping someone from hydra would show up and start evasion trolling. You're not doing yourself any favours. I suggest putting your head in the sand and prety the chatlogs dont real like the rest of your team.
Every time hydra posts like this, it means they know they are full of ****.
How does it feel to be ruining the tournament friend? Not good enough to beat us fairly?~ |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
346
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:04:11 -
[186] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Joe Public wrote:Ryu Chaos wrote:noone considers the fact that they are technically 3 teams from the same entity that cooperate and that for anyone to win the tourney they need to go through 3x flagships + 30 AT ships flown by mentally handicapped people that are hell bent on getting a runners up position by any means necessary. FYP Snigg #1 btw. I was hoping someone from hydra would show up and start evasion trolling. You're not doing yourself any favours. I suggest putting your head in the sand and prety the chatlogs dont real like the rest of your team. Every time hydra posts like this, it means they know they are full of ****. How does it feel to be ruining the tournament friend? Not good enough to beat us fairly?~
In all seriousness, they ****** up by predeciding their matches before they played them. Yout got beaten fairly 2 times in a row and they are the legit best - very dumb for doing stupid **** like that yes, but the best nevertheless.
No one hardcopied hydra setups. |
NinjaTurtle
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
98
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:04:28 -
[187] - Quote
jesus christ this thread is a disaster
frankly if this is legitimately how the AT is gunna go, just don't participate and let the tournament die.
CCP will get the hint when they can't find enough teams to pay for this complete ******* charade
I do things.
http://declarationsofwar.com
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Joe Public
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
20
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:07:04 -
[188] - Quote
Ryu Chaos wrote:horde and waffles deploy in different places from PL, they have their own budget and players Just the same as HYDRA and Camel.
Ryu Chaos wrote:Btw the "mentally handicapped" people And you automatically assume that I'm referring to you?
Ryu Chaos wrote:they have never threw a game or agreed with someone else to do so, like hydra with 0utbreak and now (propably) with Camel. The unsupported allegations have already reached "probably" status?
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Ryu Chaos
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Legion
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:10:20 -
[189] - Quote
pls tell me about your seperate budget while you are sharing AT ships, pls.
you were referring to the PL community fielding 3 teams.
even if the camel one is unsupported, you still did dumb stuff with 0utbreak and got punished for it, so a) you are not clear b) any allegations against you have more basis
@RyuChaos_
|
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
295
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:12:43 -
[190] - Quote
we can put a man on the moon but we can't ban camellords.
this is messed up. |
|
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1053
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:14:23 -
[191] - Quote
when did CCP put a man on the moon? |
NinjaTurtle
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
98
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:16:38 -
[192] - Quote
hate to say this but you guys are gunna be super duper disappointed if you're waiting for CCP to come down on these guys
I do things.
http://declarationsofwar.com
|
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
142
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:30:33 -
[193] - Quote
Joe Public... I like your style. |
Dancul1001
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
60
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:36:47 -
[194] - Quote
i wonder if DHB coming foward will force others to come foward aswell out of fear of getting in trouble from ccp if they do anything. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1053
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:37:46 -
[195] - Quote
I suspect Cheater Tournament XIV is going to be a blast... |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
96
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:54:20 -
[196] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Joe Public wrote:Ryu Chaos wrote:noone considers the fact that they are technically 3 teams from the same entity that cooperate and that for anyone to win the tourney they need to go through 3x flagships + 30 AT ships flown by mentally handicapped people that are hell bent on getting a runners up position by any means necessary. FYP Snigg #1 btw. I was hoping someone from hydra would show up and start evasion trolling. You're not doing yourself any favours. I suggest putting your head in the sand and prety the chatlogs dont real like the rest of your team. Every time hydra posts like this, it means they know they are full of ****. How does it feel to be ruining the tournament friend? Not good enough to beat us fairly?~ In all seriousness, they ****** up by predeciding their matches before they played them. Yout got beaten fairly 2 times in a row and they are the legit best - very dumb for doing stupid **** like that yes, but the best nevertheless. No one hardcopied hydra setups.
hahaha ok. You obviously speak from a position of great authority. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
346
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 19:20:12 -
[197] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Joe Public wrote:Ryu Chaos wrote:noone considers the fact that they are technically 3 teams from the same entity that cooperate and that for anyone to win the tourney they need to go through 3x flagships + 30 AT ships flown by mentally handicapped people that are hell bent on getting a runners up position by any means necessary. FYP Snigg #1 btw. I was hoping someone from hydra would show up and start evasion trolling. You're not doing yourself any favours. I suggest putting your head in the sand and prety the chatlogs dont real like the rest of your team. Every time hydra posts like this, it means they know they are full of ****. How does it feel to be ruining the tournament friend? Not good enough to beat us fairly?~ In all seriousness, they ****** up by predeciding their matches before they played them. Yout got beaten fairly 2 times in a row and they are the legit best - very dumb for doing stupid **** like that yes, but the best nevertheless. No one hardcopied hydra setups. hahaha ok. You obviously speak from a position of great authority.
I dont have to be, them being essentially one team is not the issue here, that is perfectly ok and by the rules. And as such both parts of that team beat you fair and square. If you picked up exodus, the tuskers or nulli or similar and did the same (which you could have done) no one would have complained. In the actual at, both camel and warlords were better then you, and you sound like some sore loser trying to discredit their actual performance in the AT.
HOWEVER, they cheated (if what dhb said is true) in other ways, essentially making their internal matches from a bo3 to a bo1 or having it totally predecided. For that they deserve a disqualification. That does not mean that they werent the actual best team in the AT, which they were. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1053
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 19:23:02 -
[198] - Quote
if they were best, what do they need to cheat for then? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1967
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 19:25:48 -
[199] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:if they were best, what do they need to cheat for then?
Something doesnt fit in this equation.
Making money by betting against the team that throws. It's what I'd do.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
346
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 19:30:08 -
[200] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:if they were best, what do they need to cheat for then?
Something doesnt fit in this equation.
to win easier and more, which is why they are ******** and really deserve to be disqualified if it indeed is true. |
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Centra Spike
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
166
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 19:52:18 -
[201] - Quote
CAN YOU GUYS JUST PLEASE GIVE US BACK LAEDY?
Follow us @PLIRC!
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NinjaTurtle
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
99
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 21:35:11 -
[202] - Quote
maybe the tournament should turn into another big blue doughnut
then it would def feel like tranq
I do things.
http://declarationsofwar.com
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1055
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 21:49:03 -
[203] - Quote
thank you DHB for recalling how stupid piece of **** AT actually is. CCP doesnt care. |
Insidious
Hax.
Shadow Cartel
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 22:26:00 -
[204] - Quote
fairly clear what needs to happen here,
nuke rewards in the future, half them or something
ban test server usage
that would make a dent in that behavior
it wont stop the cookie cutter theory crafting and socio dynamics all to together may even make it more desirable, but it would be a clear deterrent
(p.s. can u tell i dont like tourny's) |
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
902
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 22:43:57 -
[205] - Quote
Posting in a thread that turned into a saltmine.
RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
|
Public Outcry
Ultra Right Wing Nutjobs
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 23:24:23 -
[206] - Quote
Hey, hey, hey, don't you tell him to shut up! You'd all be dead now if it weren't for my David! None of you did anything to prevent this! |
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
3014
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 23:35:42 -
[207] - Quote
Quote:GÇÿLet the jury consider their verdict,GÇÖ the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.
GÇÿNo, no!GÇÖ said the Queen. GÇÿSentence first GÇö verdict afterwards.GÇÖ
First thing is to prove or disprove the assertion.
Then see if the rest of the discussion is required at all.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
|
Public Outcry
Ultra Right Wing Nutjobs
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 23:38:22 -
[208] - Quote
Shut up, Mike |
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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
1119
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 23:53:33 -
[209] - Quote
As there is no further constructive or relevant discussion occurring in this thread, I am locking it now to prevent it from further tumbling into the abyss.
CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
@CCP_Logibro
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