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KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.19 14:58:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Phyrr
look im not rich or lucky, but you seem to be missing the point here. Invention will take time. Exploring will take time. I really hope CCP doesn't cave into your whining and dumbs this new content down.
You sir are as about as ignorant as it comes.
KIA EVE Home
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Jita TradeAlt
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Posted - 2006.12.19 14:59:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
I'm ignorant
Well thank god you admit defeat, discussion over.
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.19 14:59:00 -
[63]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Ok, I was mostly arguing about the cost of getting an interface, not how efficient (or inefficient) actually building the stuff is once you have one (which I'm ignorant on atm).
I dont htink you are only ignorant on that matter Nero.
I honestly feel you have little to NO idea how much effort is required to get this Interface.
i would say around 400-600 man hours ish.....
Are you telling me thats a fair price for the right to even try Invention?
I think you are sat not caring about invention, because its not something you wish to do, your attitude would be very different if you were charged with getting an INterface.
At the moment Inventing is only something the rich or the very large can do, for the average corp, its way beyond what they could realitically commit to any venture.
At the moment Tech 2 BPO owners have the win button, and Invention does not offer even a share of that win button to the people of Eve.... thats not what CCP touted at all.
Yes I am trying to get into invention, or I wouldn't be posting in a topic that was discussing it, would I (although I personally want to invent T2 rigs, not ships).
Look at it this way - anything that is possible for an alliance to do is hard for an average corp. Anything that is possible for an average corp to do is easy for an alliance. CCP chose the former, not wanting EVE to be flooded with alliance-made interfaces and then potentially crashing the T2 market. Which would be bad.
400-600 man hours is still only 8-12 hours when divided between 50 people, which is the size of most 'average' corps.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Kirjava
Caldari
Storm Thesis
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Posted - 2006.12.19 14:59:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Phyrr
look im not rich or lucky, but you seem to be missing the point here. Invention will take time. Exploring will take time. I really hope CCP doesn't cave into your whining and dumbs this new content down.
From what I gather, there is a bottleneck on the bpc for the interfaces and the materials to build them. As op pointed out, it would take 8 hours a day for 6 people in a week to aquire the materials for one. This isnt to say more people=faster, that covers the entire games spawn rate of these componens. Whilst we see capital ships being introduced en masse, they are T1 and the price dosent go down, no matter how many are built.
Storm Thesis
CEO |
Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:02:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ishmael Hansen
My angry not directed at you, you doing your tech 2 lobby thing, can't blame you. If I owned a few bpo's I was prolly doing the same, maybe not.
You coulda fooled me with that anger bit.
Also, the only BPOs (or BPCs for that matter) that I own are all the T1 rig BPOs. That's it. I don't do ship or module production anymore.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:03:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Look at it this way - anything that is possible for an alliance to do is hard for an average corp. Anything that is possible for an average corp to do is easy for an alliance. CCP chose the former, not wanting EVE to be flooded with alliance-made interfaces and then potentially crashing the T2 market. Which would be bad.
PLease read this, its gonna save a LOT of pointless argument.
IF INTERFACES WERE PURCHASABLE ON THE MARKET, IT STILL WOULDNT CRASH THE TECH 2 MARKET!
Datacore supplies (the consumable) would see to this, and of course the fact that the modules made from the BPCs created would cost 5+ times the amount of isk to produce. They are the balancer, they are a finite supply, and as such they would restrict naturally the inventing industry. Interfaces just stop people getting involved at all.
Please read this and swallow it before replying.
KIA EVE Home
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Phyrr
Minmatar
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:03:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Phyrr on 19/12/2006 15:07:46
you know what screw it, I was gonna keep it to myself. I need to point out something you all seem to be missing. Check the typhoon BPO real careful now and you will see what invention really means, it's not for plugging the t2 market gap unless you really wanna. T2 Typhoon anyone? Hurricane variant? Now pls see the light, I'm 4 months old ffs im loving this exploration so far.
Why invent old crap when you can invent new ****zle
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jita TradeAlt
Originally by: Nero Scuro
I'm ignorant
Well thank god you admit defeat, discussion over.
Touche sir, touche.
*claps*
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:08:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Phyrr
you know what screw it, I was gonna keep it to myself. I need to point out something you all seem to be missing. Check the typhoon BPO real careful now and you will see what invention really means, it's not for plugging the t2 market gap unless you really wanna. T2 Typhoon anyone? Hurricane variant? Now pls see the light, I'm 4 months old ffs im loving this exploration so far.
you are 4 months old, and have no to little understanding of Eve.
You are ONLY thinking of yourself, you hope taht your joy of exploration is rewarded with huge financial gains, and dont want any change potentially effecting that. Your selfish and set minded, and your "whine" arguments show you to be of little or no capacity for looking at the larger picture of anything.
Not often i come down on someone for being an idiot, but god damn you deserve it.
You are whats wrong with Eve, just get out of this topic and go try and make your isk, "you're all right jack"
KIA EVE Home
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Kirjava
Caldari
Storm Thesis
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:11:00 -
[70]
AS he is 4 months old, perhaps he dosent know that people dedicated enough make 100M+Isk/Hour. These people are those that have T2 BPOs, which is our problem. The solution to the new peep, was invention, creating our own bpc of T2, which is virtualy impossible.
Storm Thesis
CEO |
Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:11:00 -
[71]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
PLease read this, its gonna save a LOT of pointless argument.
IF INTERFACES WERE PURCHASABLE ON THE MARKET, IT STILL WOULDNT CRASH THE TECH 2 MARKET!
Datacore supplies (the consumable) would see to this, and of course the fact that the modules made from the BPCs created would cost 5+ times the amount of isk to produce. They are the balancer, they are a finite supply, and as such they would restrict naturally the inventing industry. Interfaces just stop people getting involved at all.
Please read this and swallow it before replying.
There are people out there who have been churning out RP with multiple accounts each with multiple RP agents for nearly 2 years now. If they thought they could turn that RP into T2 ships and modules with only a little effort (as would be the case without interfaces) they would, even if doing so at a reduced profit.
Even if it didn't crash the T2 market it would still make T2 production a no-brainer that everyone and his dog could do. Fly to Jita > buy components > get datacores > invent yourself up a BPC with little to no effort involved. What would be the point in specialising in T2 production if that were the case?
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Phyrr
Minmatar
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:12:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Phyrr on 19/12/2006 15:14:46
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Phyrr
you know what screw it, I was gonna keep it to myself. I need to point out something you all seem to be missing. Check the typhoon BPO real careful now and you will see what invention really means, it's not for plugging the t2 market gap unless you really wanna. T2 Typhoon anyone? Hurricane variant? Now pls see the light, I'm 4 months old ffs im loving this exploration so far.
you are 4 months old, and have no to little understanding of Eve.
You are ONLY thinking of yourself, you hope taht your joy of exploration is rewarded with huge financial gains, and dont want any change potentially effecting that. Your selfish and set minded, and your "whine" arguments show you to be of little or no capacity for looking at the larger picture of anything.
Not often i come down on someone for being an idiot, but god damn you deserve it.
You are whats wrong with Eve, just get out of this topic and go try and make your isk, "you're all right jack"
Erm thanks for your elitist garbage response. I understand eve fine thnx. The elitist crap is what i think is whats wrong with eve. You sir need a new game, one that requires little to no effort. If i'm an idiot i fail to see how? Apparently to you a difference of opinion to yours is out of the question.
Being called an idiot by a whiner has little to no effect on me tbh. Call me what you like. Your frustraed not me. Don't think you can comment on who and what i'm about based on a few posts in one thread on the forums.
Further more "i'm all right jack". Yea I am thnx. Anyone who knows me in game knows I am the furthest from selfish that you can get. But hey how can I argue that with someone who doesn't take other opinions on board.
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Kirjava
Caldari
Storm Thesis
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:14:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: KIAEddZ
PLease read this, its gonna save a LOT of pointless argument.
IF INTERFACES WERE PURCHASABLE ON THE MARKET, IT STILL WOULDNT CRASH THE TECH 2 MARKET!
Datacore supplies (the consumable) would see to this, and of course the fact that the modules made from the BPCs created would cost 5+ times the amount of isk to produce. They are the balancer, they are a finite supply, and as such they would restrict naturally the inventing industry. Interfaces just stop people getting involved at all.
Please read this and swallow it before replying.
There are people out there who have been churning out RP with multiple accounts each with multiple RP agents for nearly 2 years now. If they thought they could turn that RP into T2 ships and modules with only a little effort (as would be the case without interfaces) they would, even if doing so at a reduced profit.
Even if it didn't crash the T2 market it would still make T2 production a no-brainer that everyone and his dog could do. Fly to Jita > buy components > get datacores > invent yourself up a BPC with little to no effort involved. What would be the point in specialising in T2 production if that were the case?
Sir, you said you did T1 production, and as such you will know that you can
1)buy minerals in jita (buy datacores)
2)build ship (invent bpc)
3)build bpc with T1 ship and bpc, having usin the morphite and extra materials u built earlier.
Construction is in reality a no brainer, thers just more of it in T2.
Storm Thesis
CEO |
maarud
Einherjar Incorporated
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:15:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: KIAEddZ
PLease read this, its gonna save a LOT of pointless argument.
IF INTERFACES WERE PURCHASABLE ON THE MARKET, IT STILL WOULDNT CRASH THE TECH 2 MARKET!
Datacore supplies (the consumable) would see to this, and of course the fact that the modules made from the BPCs created would cost 5+ times the amount of isk to produce. They are the balancer, they are a finite supply, and as such they would restrict naturally the inventing industry. Interfaces just stop people getting involved at all.
Please read this and swallow it before replying.
There are people out there who have been churning out RP with multiple accounts each with multiple RP agents for nearly 2 years now. If they thought they could turn that RP into T2 ships and modules with only a little effort (as would be the case without interfaces) they would, even if doing so at a reduced profit.
Even if it didn't crash the T2 market it would still make T2 production a no-brainer that everyone and his dog could do. Fly to Jita > buy components > get datacores > invent yourself up a BPC with little to no effort involved. What would be the point in specialising in T2 production if that were the case?
You can't just "get datacores", there is a limit on how much you can buy from a agent in 1 day. Add, to that 1 datacore costs 1500 RP from a agent and you need 16, equating to 24k RP to make 1 HAC BPC.
That 24k rp is more than a months worth. Now, thats alot of RP.
You were suppose to be able to get datacores from exploration too, but I think they are about as rare as the interfaces.
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:16:00 -
[75]
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 19/12/2006 15:18:05
Originally by: Phyrr
Erm thanks for your elitist garbage response. I understand eve fine thnx. The elitist crap is what i think is whats wrong with eve. You sir need a new game, one that requires little to no effort. If i'm an idiot i fail to see how? Apparently to you a difference of opinion to yours is out of the question.
Being called an idiot by a whiner has little to no effect on me tbh. Call me what you like. Your frustraed not me. Don't think you can comment on who and what i'm about based on a few posts in one thread on the forums.
And you expect any respect with posts like your first one in this thread.
Originally by: Phyrr
Stop throwing your dummy out of the pram ffs everyday whinge whinge whinge.
You paint the picture of you, no one else. Either bring discussion and articualated argument, or dont bother. If you bring crap like the above, then expect to be told in no uncertain terms, to fk off and troll somewhere else.
KIA EVE Home
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Phyrr
Minmatar
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:18:00 -
[76]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Phyrr
Erm thanks for your elitist garbage response. I understand eve fine thnx. The elitist crap is what i think is whats wrong with eve. You sir need a new game, one that requires little to no effort. If i'm an idiot i fail to see how? Apparently to you a difference of opinion to yours is out of the question.
Being called an idiot by a whiner has little to no effect on me tbh. Call me what you like. Your frustraed not me. Don't think you can comment on who and what i'm about based on a few posts in one thread on the forums.
And you expect any respect with posts like your first one in this thread. You paint the picture of you, no one else.
Ok i'll retract my first post as I posted out of frustration. Back to the topic in hand have you checked the BPO's that don't have current t2 variants?
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Phyrr
look im not rich or lucky, but you seem to be missing the point here. Invention will take time. Exploring will take time. I really hope CCP doesn't cave into your whining and dumbs this new content down.
That would be true if invention ended up giving bpo's, atm it's a chance based bpc if you're lucky.
No one will bother waste 3 months to "invent" a 5 run bpc of heavy missile launcher 2. You can buy them with 1 day of ratting. You'll just have to pay 10m each, which is omfg overpriced. Either way isk ends up in the hands of tech 2 owners.
So what's your point?
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:19:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Kirjava
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: KIAEddZ
PLease read this, its gonna save a LOT of pointless argument.
IF INTERFACES WERE PURCHASABLE ON THE MARKET, IT STILL WOULDNT CRASH THE TECH 2 MARKET!
Datacore supplies (the consumable) would see to this, and of course the fact that the modules made from the BPCs created would cost 5+ times the amount of isk to produce. They are the balancer, they are a finite supply, and as such they would restrict naturally the inventing industry. Interfaces just stop people getting involved at all.
Please read this and swallow it before replying.
There are people out there who have been churning out RP with multiple accounts each with multiple RP agents for nearly 2 years now. If they thought they could turn that RP into T2 ships and modules with only a little effort (as would be the case without interfaces) they would, even if doing so at a reduced profit.
Even if it didn't crash the T2 market it would still make T2 production a no-brainer that everyone and his dog could do. Fly to Jita > buy components > get datacores > invent yourself up a BPC with little to no effort involved. What would be the point in specialising in T2 production if that were the case?
Sir, you said you did T1 production, and as such you will know that you can
1)buy minerals in jita (buy datacores)
2)build ship (invent bpc)
3)build bpc with T1 ship and bpc, having usin the morphite and extra materials u built earlier.
Construction is in reality a no brainer, thers just more of it in T2.
T1 is not end-game stuff. T2 is. Everything about T2 is more complicated, from needing moon miners to get advanced materials, to turning those advanced materials into construction components which are needed for the final T2 product. Why should invention be different? Although yes, it all is a no-brainer-just-more-of-it kind of situation I guess...
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Phyrr
Minmatar
The Gosimer and Scarab
|
Posted - 2006.12.19 15:20:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ishmael Hansen
Originally by: Phyrr
look im not rich or lucky, but you seem to be missing the point here. Invention will take time. Exploring will take time. I really hope CCP doesn't cave into your whining and dumbs this new content down.
That would be true if invention ended up giving bpo's, atm it's a chance based bpc if you're lucky.
No one will bother waste 3 months to "invent" a 5 run bpc of heavy missile launcher 2. You can buy them with 1 day of ratting. You'll just have to pay 10m each, which is omfg overpriced. Either way isk ends up in the hands of tech 2 owners.
So what's your point?
scroll up to see what i said about BPO's
Invention will allow you to invent things that don't exist yet. check the BPO's on the market for yourself.
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Kirjava
Caldari
Storm Thesis
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:23:00 -
[80]
You dont even need miners, just buy off of market, my corp cant mine nearly enough o keep up with production, and I know of several corps that mine moons and sell reactions or whatever they called off market.
24k RP/ship?
Excuse me but, what were they smoking at the time?, noones going to risk odds less than 50/50 for what you can only do less than 12 times a year per fully trained toon.
Storm Thesis
CEO |
Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:25:00 -
[81]
Originally by: maarud
You can't just "get datacores", there is a limit on how much you can buy from a agent in 1 day. Add, to that 1 datacore costs 1500 RP from a agent and you need 16, equating to 24k RP to make 1 HAC BPC.
That 24k rp is more than a months worth. Now, thats alot of RP.
You were suppose to be able to get datacores from exploration too, but I think they are about as rare as the interfaces.
Yes, but datacores are still essentially 'free'. It might limit the amount you can build each month but they don't deduct anything from your eventual earnings.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:27:00 -
[82]
But making 1 bpc or 2-4 hacs (i'm using hacs as they are potentially the most profiable, modules would produce less reward) a month....... for the investment of 400-600 hours.....
Cmon man, your still not making any sense.
KIA EVE Home
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:28:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Phyrr
scroll up to see what i said about BPO's
Invention will allow you to invent things that don't exist yet. check the BPO's on the market for yourself.
0.o
I'm fairly sure they don't. T2 battleships haven't been added to the database so there is nothing to invent (although it would be pretty cool if CCP had snuck T2 BS in and hadn't told us). Unless you get a faction BS BPC from it..?
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:29:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: maarud
You can't just "get datacores", there is a limit on how much you can buy from a agent in 1 day. Add, to that 1 datacore costs 1500 RP from a agent and you need 16, equating to 24k RP to make 1 HAC BPC.
That 24k rp is more than a months worth. Now, thats alot of RP.
You were suppose to be able to get datacores from exploration too, but I think they are about as rare as the interfaces.
Yes, but datacores are still essentially 'free'. It might limit the amount you can build each month but they don't deduct anything from your eventual earnings.
Haha, been researching mechanical engineering for 2 years now and have enough rp's to buy 16 datacores, enough for 2 tries. Can get more isk out of a civ mining laser in an ibis in that time. Have you been playing the same game as I?
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Liisa
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:31:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Liisa on 19/12/2006 15:33:05
Originally by: Phyrr
Originally by: Ishmael Hansen
Originally by: Phyrr
look im not rich or lucky, but you seem to be missing the point here. Invention will take time. Exploring will take time. I really hope CCP doesn't cave into your whining and dumbs this new content down.
That would be true if invention ended up giving bpo's, atm it's a chance based bpc if you're lucky.
No one will bother waste 3 months to "invent" a 5 run bpc of heavy missile launcher 2. You can buy them with 1 day of ratting. You'll just have to pay 10m each, which is omfg overpriced. Either way isk ends up in the hands of tech 2 owners.
So what's your point?
scroll up to see what i said about BPO's
Invention will allow you to invent things that don't exist yet. check the BPO's on the market for yourself.
The problem is that we do not know if we will actually get a t2 bpc from a battleship bpc. Yes, the invention tab is there, but it is possible that you will put in your components, click on invent and get nothing other than an error message. We do not even if there are database placeholders (you know, empty slots) for tech 2 battleships yet.
To sum up: Just because it has an invention tab does not mean that you can invent it. If you want to waste the isk trying, please do.
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:32:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Vasiliyan
I think this was mostly an issue of catastrophically bad expectation management.
This man gets a cookie.
\o/
I still don't understand why people think a lottery with huge prizes is so hugely unfair. At least with the lottery it's obvious what the rules are in advance. (Leaving aside the paranoid suggestion that BoB are Dev favourites)
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KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:34:00 -
[87]
No we do know.
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO INVENT TECH 2 BATTLESHIPS.
The devs have stated this more than once. You cannot invent anything that isnt seeded.
KIA EVE Home
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:34:00 -
[88]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
But making 1 bpc or 2-4 hacs (i'm using hacs as they are potentially the most profiable, modules would produce less reward) a month....... for the investment of 400-600 hours.....
Cmon man, your still not making any sense.
That's a one-time cost of 400-600 man hours though. Once you have the interface it aint going anywhere, and you can produce HACs, even if only at a rate of 2-4 a month, forever.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:35:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Vasiliyan
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Vasiliyan
I think this was mostly an issue of catastrophically bad expectation management.
This man gets a cookie.
\o/
I still don't understand why people think a lottery with huge prizes is so hugely unfair. At least with the lottery it's obvious what the rules are in advance. (Leaving aside the paranoid suggestion that BoB are Dev favourites)
Cos I haven't heard of people whinning the lottery more then 5 times.
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Phyrr
Minmatar
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:36:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Phyrr on 19/12/2006 15:37:24
Originally by: KIAEddZ
No we do know.
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO INVENT TECH 2 BATTLESHIPS.
The devs have stated this more than once. You cannot invent anything that isnt seeded.
doesn't change the fact that the invention tabs are there and that this is Part 1 of Kali.
Also in response to another post im willing th throw isk away to try it even just to confirm for others that its an error message 
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