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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:22:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 20/12/2006 23:22:55
Originally by: Lady Noir [Half a dozen words is all it takes. It's impossible for me to prove what i say, it's you who chooses not to believe it. A day and a half is all it takes if you know exactly what you are doing, and what skills to train, you only need to start with a level 1 agent for the first few missions, assuming you were clever enough to train connections to 4, you'll get onto a low level 2 in almost no time, and it just gets faster from there. You don't need this 5.0 faction that you are talking about. Connections 4 effectively starts you at 1.60 standing.
Said connection skill doesn't apply if you have negative standing, and that was my case for 2 of the three factions I wanted. Lv1,2 and some lv3 missions give virtually no standing increase, the only way to increase it is with important missions (replaced later by storyline). And guess what? Corp A will most of the time point you to storyline agents belonging to corp B, meaning that you end up with a small increase in the standing of the research corp you want. It may have changed, what I describe was more than a year ago...
Anyway, that's besides the point. Let's return to the subject and explain to us how T2 bpos have no value and how your corp-mates are falling over themselves giving you datacores for free instead of selling them in the market for profit. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:26:00 -
[122]
So everyone starts with negative standing do they? No, most don't.
For our first interface we build i alone have enough agents gathering rp that i could get enough datacores to invent FOREVER, yes, my rp will never run out. Does this clear up the whole corp mates thing?
If you dont want to buy datacores, you'd better get researching, if that's to much for you then you can either buy them for a riduculous price or then i guess the high-end crafting market of EVE isn't for you.
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:30:00 -
[123]
And if it takes you 2 months to make a researcher then thats your problem for failing at EVE!
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:35:00 -
[124]
Oh and by the way Shadow, i notice how you failed to mention the negative standing when you first said it took you two months? Why did you fail to mention that i wonder? Perhaps because you are trying to make the invention process look harder than it really is perhaps? I think so.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:51:00 -
[125]
Edited by: HankMurphy on 20/12/2006 23:52:31 yawn *snip
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:54:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Lady Noir Oh and by the way Shadow, i notice how you failed to mention the negative standing when you first said it took you two months? Why did you fail to mention that i wonder? Perhaps because you are trying to make the invention process look harder than it really is perhaps? I think so.
Because faction standing doesn't matter if corp standing is at zero or better?
On the other hand, why didn't you mention your r&d alts when you claimed all it takes to get unlimited datacores for invention is one and a half days of work?
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:57:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Lady Noir Oh and by the way Shadow, i notice how you failed to mention the negative standing when you first said it took you two months? Why did you fail to mention that i wonder? Perhaps because you are trying to make the invention process look harder than it really is perhaps? I think so.
Because faction standing doesn't matter if corp standing is at zero or better?
On the other hand, why didn't you mention your r&d alts when you claimed all it takes to get unlimited datacores for invention is one and a half days of work?
I just did mention my research alts? That i like, made myself, with an average of 2 days per character, with a record of 1 and a half days at best? What's your point?
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.21 00:08:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Ogul on 21/12/2006 00:10:59 Edited by: Ogul on 21/12/2006 00:08:01
Originally by: Lady Noir
Oh no? A whole day or two of mission running to get standings for passively gained RP for the rest of your EVE life.... That REALLY compares to mining doesn't it!?
Full quote, no alts. Who is making invention look different than it actually is?
Originally by: Lady Noir
What's your point?
You deliberately refuse to see it.
Honestly, if you don't know why doing something that you criticize others for completely removes the credibility of the statement, I am not capable of explaining it.
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.21 00:12:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Ogul Edited by: Ogul on 21/12/2006 00:08:01
Originally by: Lady Noir
Oh no? A whole day or two of mission running to get standings for passively gained RP for the rest of your EVE life.... That REALLY compares to mining doesn't it!?
Full quote, no alts. Who is making invention look different than it actually is?
Originally by: Lady Noir
What's your point?
You deliberately refuse to see it.
Honestly, if you don't know why doing something that you critize others for completely removes the credibility of the statement, I am not capable of explaining it.
It's certainly not me, go read the other invention thread, now people seem to think that building a titan is easier than building a data interface, and some even believe that 1000 hours is only 10% of the total required farming to build a data interface. I am putting people into perspective of how things really are, it takes about 50 man hours to get components for a ship data interface, and only 5 for a module data interface.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2006.12.21 03:19:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 21/12/2006 03:24:52
Originally by: Lady Noir I am putting people into perspective of how things really are, it takes about 50 man hours to get components for a ship data interface, and only 5 for a module data interface.
Good on you mate, for standing your ground in the face of some damned childish criticisms here.
It took me close upon 3000 hours of Eve playing to BUY the one T2 BPO I own. Yes that's right I said buy!
Now a bunch of sorry no-hopers are whining at CCP's teat for an easy ticket into my action! Hell NO!
I worked damn hard for a business edge and so should you. Easy invention? Kiss my rosy red ...
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.21 05:36:00 -
[131]
3000 hours hey well fair point it shouldnt be easy at the same time it needs balance. Depends how rare CCp want these thigns to become
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.21 08:09:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Lady Noir
It's certainly not me, go read the other invention thread, now people seem to think that building a titan is easier than building a data interface, and some even believe that 1000 hours is only 10% of the total required farming to build a data interface. I am putting people into perspective of how things really are, it takes about 50 man hours to get components for a ship data interface, and only 5 for a module data interface.
50 man hours.
That is UTTER bullsht
Explain how in 50 MAN hours (5 people 10 hours) you can collect 1700 components.
Your "facts" are laughable. I'm beggining to wander if you really are building an interface. Total and utter tosh.
KIA EVE Home
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.21 08:32:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Lady Noir on 21/12/2006 08:33:18
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Lady Noir
It's certainly not me, go read the other invention thread, now people seem to think that building a titan is easier than building a data interface, and some even believe that 1000 hours is only 10% of the total required farming to build a data interface. I am putting people into perspective of how things really are, it takes about 50 man hours to get components for a ship data interface, and only 5 for a module data interface.
50 man hours.
That is UTTER bullsht
Explain how in 50 MAN hours (5 people 10 hours) you can collect 1700 components.
Your "facts" are laughable. I'm beggining to wander if you really are building an interface. Total and utter tosh.
50 man hours, possibly up to 75, with two hackers, you can get those components. That's two guys together hacking every container for 75 hours. Don't tell me that's not possible, i know for a fact that it is.
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.21 08:41:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Lady Noir Edited by: Lady Noir on 21/12/2006 08:33:18
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Lady Noir
It's certainly not me, go read the other invention thread, now people seem to think that building a titan is easier than building a data interface, and some even believe that 1000 hours is only 10% of the total required farming to build a data interface. I am putting people into perspective of how things really are, it takes about 50 man hours to get components for a ship data interface, and only 5 for a module data interface.
50 man hours.
That is UTTER bullsht
Explain how in 50 MAN hours (5 people 10 hours) you can collect 1700 components.
Your "facts" are laughable. I'm beggining to wander if you really are building an interface. Total and utter tosh.
50 man hours, possibly up to 75, with two hackers, you can get those components. That's two guys together hacking every container for 75 hours. Don't tell me that's not possible, i know for a fact that it is.
I had 3 men hackin containers for 7 hours last night.
According to your figures we should be AT LEAST 1/3 of the way there, those 7 hours should be yielding around 550 parts....
LoL
You are totally and utterly full of it.
Is this a wind up??
KIA EVE Home
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.21 09:08:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Lady Noir And if it takes you 2 months to make a researcher then thats your problem for failing at EVE!
Thanks for proving my point about making personal attacks when being unable to back up your own arguments. You are a Troll, even worse than Detaurus was, and I won't feed you anymore. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.21 09:09:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Lady Noir on 21/12/2006 09:10:16
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Lady Noir Edited by: Lady Noir on 21/12/2006 08:33:18
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Lady Noir
It's certainly not me, go read the other invention thread, now people seem to think that building a titan is easier than building a data interface, and some even believe that 1000 hours is only 10% of the total required farming to build a data interface. I am putting people into perspective of how things really are, it takes about 50 man hours to get components for a ship data interface, and only 5 for a module data interface.
50 man hours.
That is UTTER bullsht
Explain how in 50 MAN hours (5 people 10 hours) you can collect 1700 components.
Your "facts" are laughable. I'm beggining to wander if you really are building an interface. Total and utter tosh.
50 man hours, possibly up to 75, with two hackers, you can get those components. That's two guys together hacking every container for 75 hours. Don't tell me that's not possible, i know for a fact that it is.
I had 3 men hackin containers for 7 hours last night.
According to your figures we should be AT LEAST 1/3 of the way there, those 7 hours should be yielding around 550 parts....
LoL
You are totally and utterly full of it.
Is this a wind up??
I think maybe you are having problems with simple math, 7 hours is not 33% of 75 hours, if you cover every single hack can and don't miss any for 75 hours, you will have enough components, i don't care if you use two guys or ten guys to do the hacking, it can be done with as few as two hackers either way.
Do you understand now? You MUST cover every possible hack can that drops the components for 75 hours, and 7 hours is not 1/3rd of 75 hours.
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.21 10:17:00 -
[137]
Okies so Every can hacked in the complex for 7 hours straight... according to you is possible with 2 men. So for 2 men 7 hours each = 14 hours, roughly 1/3.5 of the 50 hours you propose, maybe 1/5 of the 75 hours you changed your "estimation" to.
Meaning MINIMUM amount of components you should reap in that 7 hours is 320 (ABSOLUTE MINIMUM). 6 cans in the spawn point... meaning about 54 spawns per can, meaning a spawn rate of about 1.1 mins... roughly. You must have some fancy ass spawning cans tbh...... So far your "maths" are complete tosh, but lets look further.
Then we must assume that every dro is exactly in proportion to the drops you need to complete the Ship interface. KIA has found this to be unfortunatley GROSSLY in accurate, and in fact the drop rate for the Cladari complex is heavily weighted to Armor Blocks (you need 120 of these), and hardly any Electronic Links (you need 960 of these).
I am stating for a fact now, you are plain out lying. Nothing more nothing less. Why, I don't know, but its plain and abvious.
75 man hours IS COMPLETE TOSH. Totally and utterly, and thats your new over "guestimation".
Utter utter crap.
Post with your main, and post some proof, maybe fraps vid of your guys hacking cans every 70 seconds with new parts, and list the parts and proportion you are getting them in.
Liar.
KIA EVE Home
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.21 10:37:00 -
[138]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Okies so Every can hacked in the complex for 7 hours straight... according to you is possible with 2 men. So for 2 men 7 hours each = 14 hours, roughly 1/3.5 of the 50 hours you propose, maybe 1/5 of the 75 hours you changed your "estimation" to.
Meaning MINIMUM amount of components you should reap in that 7 hours is 320 (ABSOLUTE MINIMUM). 6 cans in the spawn point... meaning about 54 spawns per can, meaning a spawn rate of about 1.1 mins... roughly. You must have some fancy ass spawning cans tbh...... So far your "maths" are complete tosh, but lets look further.
Then we must assume that every dro is exactly in proportion to the drops you need to complete the Ship interface. KIA has found this to be unfortunatley GROSSLY in accurate, and in fact the drop rate for the Cladari complex is heavily weighted to Armor Blocks (you need 120 of these), and hardly any Electronic Links (you need 960 of these).
I am stating for a fact now, you are plain out lying. Nothing more nothing less. Why, I don't know, but its plain and abvious.
75 man hours IS COMPLETE TOSH. Totally and utterly, and thats your new over "guestimation".
Utter utter crap.
Post with your main, and post some proof, maybe fraps vid of your guys hacking cans every 70 seconds with new parts, and list the parts and proportion you are getting them in.
Liar.
Tell me, how many cans are there that spawn components where you are hacking?
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.21 10:37:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Lady Noir I think maybe you are having problems with simple math, 7 hours is not 33% of 75 hours, if you cover every single hack can and don't miss any for 75 hours, you will have enough components, i don't care if you use two guys or ten guys to do the hacking, it can be done with as few as two hackers either way.
Do you understand now? You MUST cover every possible hack can that drops the components for 75 hours, and 7 hours is not 1/3rd of 75 hours.
You two have different ideas about what a "man hour" is.
Lady Noir, you are mis-using the term man hour. One man hour is one person's work for one hour. Two people working for 1 hour is TWO man hours.
KIAEddZ's 3 men working for 7 hours is 21 man hours. Your 2 men working for 75 hours is 150 man hours.
From my own experiments with this I suspect that KIAEddZ's figures are a LOT closer to the truth than yours are, you seem to be getting a much higher successs/drop rate than I have observed, although I haven't experimented much so my gueses aren't based on large samples.
Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
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Tharrn
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:04:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Tharrn on 21/12/2006 11:21:04 At least for the Labyrinth and Blood Raider Crypt KIAEddz is much closer to the truth than Lady Troll, who seems to have successes on every hacking attempt, too.
Edit: in the crypt the cans are also nicely separated into two groups.
Now recruiting!
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:45:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Tharrn Edited by: Tharrn on 21/12/2006 11:21:04 At least for the Labyrinth and Blood Raider Crypt KIAEddz is much closer to the truth than Lady Troll, who seems to have successes on every hacking attempt, too.
Edit: in the crypt the cans are also nicely separated into two groups.
How many cans are there that have a chance to drop the item then? The exact amount please, if you refuse to say then i'll just assume you don't want me to know as then i could figure out how long it would take on average.
What difference does it make if they are in groups exactly?
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Chochko
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:00:00 -
[142]
Just for your information: The small hacking complex contains around 30 cans which drop components. Their respawn rate is around 30m so actualy you can collect 60 per one hour but you need at least 2 persons to do this. Most of the drops are Armor Block and Spare parts (with a small chance of anything higher on the chain) AND Gurista weapon consoles (used for building cosmos BPCs). Lets make a simple calculation now - you will get no more than 30 components per 2 Man hours.
Now for the other complex - there are no more than 40 hacking cans which drop the higher components, but you will need at least 3 HACs or BCs to kill the spawn (which is insane) and 2 of those must have hacking modules. Again the containers drop gurista weapon consoles (medium and large) Lets make the calculation here too - 50 components (absolute maximum) for 3/4 Man hours.
Now what is the big picture - 6 Man hours for 80 components (without counting the types because there are many that you will no need at large qtys) In the perfect case you will need for 1700 comps - 1700/80 - 21.25x6 = 127 Man hours But there are different types of them so this picture is not even close to the real one - aWhere You will need 5 or 10 times more. -------------------------------------------
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:05:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Lady Noir on 21/12/2006 12:05:47
Originally by: Chochko Just for your information: The small hacking complex contains around 30 cans which drop components. Their respawn rate is around 30m so actualy you can collect 60 per one hour but you need at least 2 persons to do this. Most of the drops are Armor Block and Spare parts (with a small chance of anything higher on the chain) AND Gurista weapon consoles (used for building cosmos BPCs). Lets make a simple calculation now - you will get no more than 30 components per 2 Man hours.
Now for the other complex - there are no more than 40 hacking cans which drop the higher components, but you will need at least 3 HACs or BCs to kill the spawn (which is insane) and 2 of those must have hacking modules. Again the containers drop gurista weapon consoles (medium and large) Lets make the calculation here too - 50 components (absolute maximum) for 3/4 Man hours.
Now what is the big picture - 6 Man hours for 80 components (without counting the types because there are many that you will no need at large qtys) In the perfect case you will need for 1700 comps - 1700/80 - 21.25x6 = 127 Man hours But there are different types of them so this picture is not even close to the real one - aWhere You will need 5 or 10 times more.
Can respawn rate is 20 minutes, not 30.
127 man hours, that sounds almost right, but from my way of looking at it, if you have two hackers hacking all the cans, and assuming they don't take a break from start to finish (very likely they will) they will take less than 75 hours overall from start to finish to get the components, note NOT man hours, but overall hours from start to finish. Thats for a ship interface, they could instead build 10 module interfaces with that.
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:19:00 -
[144]
READ what the man is saying.
127 hours IF it drops the perfect components....
Which it simply doesnt.
In your calcs of 2 men for 75 hours (150 man hours) you would need to times that by AT LEAST 4 to allow for the correct gathering of the components needed.
Your figures are rubbish, I have a section of my corp down there day in and day out, we know what its taking to build a Ship Interface, you clearly are lying baout your success, or have a very very lucky area to hack in....
The 1 and only reason you do not want it made more realistic is you want to be in a VERY VERY tight niche of people doing this, thus maximizing your profits.
You are whats wrong with eve, greed is only a temporary solution.
KIA EVE Home
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Tharrn
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:20:00 -
[145]
The two groups of cans drop different components. So you have about 15 cans in each group with a CHANCE to drop the stuff you need. Then there'll be Decryptors and stuff you simply don't need to build the datacores.
Your 75 hours are simply not in. You are pulling fantasy numbers out of your arse all the time that might barely work in the ideal case of having hacking successes 100% of the time and getting only stuff you need to build the interface.
We have tried to get components to use the dozens and dozens of COSMOS BPCs we got within the corp and realized very soon that it would be a gargantuan effort to use all of them because some parts have a very low droprate. You'll end up with hundreds of one part while you still only have about 10% of that amount for another. Thus we cherry picked the best ones to actually build them.
Now recruiting!
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:32:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Lady Noir on 21/12/2006 12:34:02 Heh ah screw it, edited, no cake for you guys.
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Lamb Chop
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.21 13:21:00 -
[147]
imho, Lady noir is very poor at math and has its facts mixed up with reality...
Or she is just plain lying to further her own agenda...
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:52:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Lady Noir Anyone can do invention, you just need to figure out what you need and where to get it, then spend the time doing it, it's that simple. Devs, don't cave into the whiners like Kia, this is exactly what EVE needs, content that is really hard to achieve yet in the reach of anyone who really puts the effort in.
Lets face it, all the whiners complaining about it are just whining because they don't want to put the effort in, they thought it was going to be easy, EVE doesn't need more easy, easy gets boring fast.
If you REALLY want to do invention, you'll get hold of all the required parts, it won't be easy, and you have to have at least a little smarts too (unlike the whiner-brigade in the daily invention whine thread that kia starts).
Invention is fine, it's only been a few weeks, and actually only a few days since multispec probes were released, if after half a year hardly anyone is inventing, then maybe look into things a bit more.
Your either and idiot who doesnt understand game mechanics or just another whiney t2 producer. I am betting on the second, because you dont hav the balls to post on your main, and if you dont own t2 bpo, your whine is borderline retarded.
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Moadyb
The Raven Warriors
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:55:00 -
[149]
Please for the love of God, someone ban Lady Noir and reveal his MAIN, please, please I don't want anything else for Christmas!
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Chochko
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.21 15:01:00 -
[150]
And just a quick addition - most of the players can do easy 50 mil per hour (miner alts with hulks can do 100 so 50 is good number) 236 Man hours for one interface looks to me like 12 Bilions. More likely 30. Do you think that this is normal????? Just one item which Gives you a Chance to try the invention. -------------------------------------------
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