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Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
128
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Posted - 2015.10.20 11:52:21 -
[91] - Quote
I have Kronos, Golem and Vargur across a few characters. I can't comment on Paladin as that is the only Marauder I've never tried.
Normally I mission with 4 characters, running two missions concurrently with two characters per mission. The deadliest combination is Golem + Vargur, without a question, as Golem can shoot rage torps to BS rats (you need good TP & missile support skills) and Vargur will just annihilate anything cruiser size or below with awesome tracking and the least 'wasted' damage.
If I had to choose one ship to run variety of missions, I would go for Vargur. The reason is that most big L4 missions still have quite a lot of cruisers and frigates, and although you may kill a BS rat a few seconds faster with a Golem than a Vargur you'd be spending considerably more time taking out the cruiser rats in a Golem (even if you 1 volley them, ROF is slow on both Torps and Cruise). If you want range, then cruise Golem is nice but for me personally I didn't feel it was an upgrade from a CNR, especially considering tank normally isn't an issue and with rigor rigs and the ship bonus cruise CNR has no problem with damage application even without TP bonus (and at the long ranges that cruise missiles can hit to, it's well outside of TP optimal).
It comes down to personal preferences, but I would compare them as following
Torp Golem : WOW damage, pleasure in seeing huge chunks of HP disappearing from fat ships per each volley.
AC Vargur : swats BC and below ships left and right like flies. Your busiest task during the missions will be target locking as the rats get taken down so fast. BUT when you're hitting BS rats, you will not be hugely impressed in a way that you get when using torp Golem.
Now a few general advice,
1. Fit MWD, not MJD. You don't need to 'range tank' in a Marauder and there are still quite a few missions where you need to travel 20~40km to the next gate. You can do this relatively quickly with well placed MJD usage but it doesn't compare to rushing with MWD while keep shooting stuff.
2. For both Golem and Vargur, medium sized deadspace shield booster is completely sufficient and will cut down on need for micromanagement. Both ships will run perfectly fine with cap booster & XL shield booster, but medium deadspace shield boosters are not that expensive & it's just one less thing to care about. Depending on how much cap you want, Pithum B-Type or Gistum B-Type are both relatively cheap and gives sufficient tank (if you want to save a bit you can go for c-type, but the price difference isn't that big).
3. If you are going for Golem, especially if you are going for Torpedos, you really want all that missile support skills trained to V along with some decent skills for TP amount & optimal. This is one advantage of Vargur in a sense that with its tracking bonus and tracking computer you can track things well enough with support skills at IV. Another advantage of a gun boat is that you can control the transversal to improve your tracking (if necessary), but with missile boat you really need the support skills to help you out on this one. (This is why Mach was such a good ship for my low-sp Minmatar alt years ago, because it had good enough fall off & tracking & damage with less than perfect skills. For missile boats, having maxed support skills make such big difference that flying with anything less than V doesn't give that great impression).
4. Kronos
This was my first Marauder, as Gallente has always been my favourite faction ever since I started playing EVE. You want to fit this with blasters, and mostly you'd be using it with null and bastion to get that extra fall off range. If you are going against some Serpentis BS that like to sit at 50km range, even with tracking computer/enhancer & bastion + using null ammo you will be doing considerably less damage than what it says on EFT. In most of the missions you will be using null ammo because of range issues, so the DPS from Kronos isn't actually much better than Vargur in most practical scenarios.
BUT! If you are sitting on top of multiple BS rats (via MJD or MWD or whatever), and blast them through with void ammo, it is very satisfying.
AND it has Police skin now, which is the only reason I'm thinking about going back to missioning for a while. :p
PS: Although I've never flown Paladin, I did a lot of missioning in Gallente space with Nightmare. Lasers work perfectly well vs Serpentis, but personally I didn't think it was good enough vs. Angels. Difference may not be as big as some people make it out to be, but when I'm flying a pirate BS or Marauders I want 'great' performance, not 'pretty decent'. If you have enough raw damage, lasors are pretty decent vs. Angels too. But it's not 'great' in a way that Vargur's fusion ammo or CNR's Nova missiles are.
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Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid
Decayed Orbit
262
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Posted - 2015.10.20 12:57:15 -
[92] - Quote
People really polarise their golems? |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
956
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Posted - 2015.10.20 13:58:35 -
[93] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:People really polarise their golems?
Yeah... even when T2 fit it has enough tank to survive the missions so isnt even worth a gank 
No Worries
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Lan Wang
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
1706
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Posted - 2015.10.20 14:31:56 -
[94] - Quote
Vargur then kronos are top for soloing the blood raiders 10/10 :)
Recruiting V I R I I Small Gang Nullsec PVP
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone
Caldari State
4699
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Posted - 2015.10.21 09:41:14 -
[95] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:People really polarise their golems?
It's the only way to fly...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid
Decayed Orbit
265
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Posted - 2015.10.21 10:06:22 -
[96] - Quote
There was a Kronos we killed yesterday. Dude might as well have been polarised for all the fight he put up. I got 500m isk loot from that dude.
One does not simply roll about low sec in a Kronos.
Looking at the dudes kb tho he clearly has more isk than sense. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
1710
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Posted - 2015.10.21 10:48:19 -
[97] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:There was a Kronos we killed yesterday. Dude might as well have been polarised for all the fight he put up. I got 500m isk loot from that dude.
One does not simply roll about low sec in a Kronos.
Looking at the dudes kb tho he clearly has more isk than sense.
On topic - the golem has m vote simply because it will never miss. I have attempted pvp in a vargur before but u really need a web and scram to take care of things orbiting close. Anything with low transversal at 20+ km will likely die tho. And quite quickly. Still this doesn't outweigh having 200km range the golem can boast imo
Wouldn't polarise either tho.
pvp marauders are a thing
Recruiting V I R I I Small Gang Nullsec PVP
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid
Decayed Orbit
265
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Posted - 2015.10.21 11:23:38 -
[98] - Quote
Well I tend to do any pve in a pvp fit |
Onotole Vassermanov
The Black Company G.C.
Soviet-Union
34
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Posted - 2015.10.22 11:23:03 -
[99] - Quote
Why maradeur?
overtank and low DPS, mostly for 5 and complexes.
For all other Barghest or Nightmare or Rattlesnake.
Less skills, cheaper, higher DPS, enought tank.
Why maradeur? |
Arean Proktor
Eternal Darkness.
Blades of Grass
12
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Posted - 2015.10.22 11:48:03 -
[100] - Quote
Because you can easily tripplebox with marauders and never run into the risk of loosing one to a lvl 4 |
Onotole Vassermanov
The Black Company G.C.
Soviet-Union
34
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Posted - 2015.10.22 12:03:15 -
[101] - Quote
triplebox on ishtars or domies. cheaper, instant damage sincronised, one window control. discuss? |
Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid
Decayed Orbit
267
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Posted - 2015.10.22 12:04:33 -
[102] - Quote
E war immunity
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Lan Wang
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
1714
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Posted - 2015.10.22 12:06:21 -
[103] - Quote
Onotole Vassermanov wrote:triplebox on ishtars or domies. cheaper discuss?
Hardly cheaper if you need 3 accounts all able to fly hacs
Recruiting V I R I I Small Gang Nullsec PVP
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Arean Proktor
Eternal Darkness.
Blades of Grass
12
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Posted - 2015.10.22 13:07:04 -
[104] - Quote
I prefer marauders over domis cause each marauder can get his own mission. Less warping. I used 3 nestor (cause warpspeed and aligntime) for quite some time but switching to marauders increased the isk/h by about 20-30%. Still use the nestors sometimes when i'm lazy |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1657
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Posted - 2015.10.22 21:12:11 -
[105] - Quote
I always wondered, does the Barghest make up for the difference in application with the increase in base damage over a Golem/RNI? |
Altair Taurus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.10.23 16:51:15 -
[106] - Quote
Well, I have just finished T2 cruise missiles training! So I put T2 CMLs into my Rattlesnake and now I must only train several more days to hit 1300 DPS @ 100 km & 9000 volley output. Any suggestions? |
Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid
Decayed Orbit
277
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Posted - 2015.10.23 16:53:50 -
[107] - Quote
ur missing like 500 dps |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
478
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Posted - 2015.10.23 17:00:40 -
[108] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:ur missing like 500 dps
Torps dont reach out to 100km  |
Altair Taurus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2015.10.23 17:22:26 -
[109] - Quote
What damage output can I reach at 100 km in Rattlesnake realistically speaking w/o stupidly long training? |
Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid
Decayed Orbit
277
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Posted - 2015.10.23 17:25:03 -
[110] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:ur missing like 500 dps Torps dont reach out to 100km
ah right |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4701
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Posted - 2015.10.27 09:01:38 -
[111] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:I always wondered, does the Barghest make up for the difference in application with the increase in base damage over a Golem/RNI?
Yes and no. With the rebalance in December the Barghest will sport 9 effective launchers and a drastically reduced rate of ammunition consumption. The Golem only sports two rig slots, so a T2 Missile Guidance Enhancer and T1 flare rig more or less gives you the same damage application on the Barghest (the RNI is slightly better). Where the Barghest really shines is missile velocity - since you almost never lose a volley in-transit. In terms of real-world performance, that typically translates into another +5-10% effective DPS.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Yolli Sly
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.10.27 17:11:02 -
[112] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:I always wondered, does the Barghest make up for the difference in application with the increase in base damage over a Golem/RNI? Yes and no. With the rebalance in December the Barghest will sport 9 effective launchers and a drastically reduced rate of ammunition consumption. The Golem only sports two rig slots, so a T2 Missile Guidance Enhancer and T1 flare rig more or less gives you the same damage application on the Barghest (the RNI is slightly better). Where the Barghest really shines is missile velocity - since you almost never lose a volley in-transit. In terms of real-world performance, that typically translates into another +5-10% effective DPS.
You talk about cruise Barghest.
RHML Barrges has best average (not biggest, but best) damage application from every missile boats. For example, if EFT says 850 dps (all V + 4BCSII), you will get ~650 vs battleships, ~400 vs cruisers and ~ 200 vs frigates with standard heavies.
RHL shots every 2 seconds so you will miss one volley on every target for sure (100 km range), but these are standard heavy missiles, not cruise.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4702
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Posted - 2015.10.27 18:17:34 -
[113] - Quote
Yolli Sly wrote:You talk about cruise Barghest.
RHML Barrges has best average (not biggest, but best) damage application from every missile boats. For example, if EFT says 850 dps (all V + 4BCSII), you will get ~650 vs battleships, ~400 vs cruisers and ~ 200 vs frigates with standard heavies.
RHL shots every 2 seconds so you will miss one volley on every target for sure (100 km range), but these are standard heavy missiles, not cruise.
If we're talking RHML fits, then yes - the Barghest excels over the Golem and RNI. Mainly because these don't receive any missile velocity bonus (except in Bastion for the Golem) and the missile damage application bonuses don't apply. If you need sustained fire EFT or Pyfa DPS is about 1/3 less overall. Of course I'm not taking into account the Golem's target painter bonus, either.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Transient Drifter
Ceptacemia
Unfair Advantage.
6
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Posted - 2015.10.29 18:08:14 -
[114] - Quote
I have to say, I really like my Paladin, for everything EXCEPT angels. It just takes so much longer to kill Angels. I think what I like the most is the ability to adjust my damage, as the range changes. I could pick up some more damage, across all ranges, with faction ammo, but its not necessary, at all.
Typically, I warp into the mission area, micro jump 100km out and begin targeting frigates. Even at 118km, using Radio, a frigate is down in 1 volley. I have Megapulses split into groups of 2 so I will usually target 2 frigates and they will be gone in 2 cycles. The pulses fire so fast that the extra cycle is a non-issue. By the time all the frigates are gone, cruiser sized ships will be in Standard range. Most of the time, by the time you have cruisers going down, the entire field will not be able to put out enough damage, to break your tank. So I just sit there and let everything come into multifreq range, if they even make it that far.
I am sure there are better min-maxing setups but there is no need for faction anything, if you're just running lvl 4 missions, with a marauder. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
489
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Posted - 2015.10.29 20:01:54 -
[115] - Quote
Paladin not only has the cheapest faction/T2 ammo but only has 4 guns.
I can think of no reason not to run both 0.o
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4717
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 07:44:53 -
[116] - Quote
Utilizing a Polarized Golem fit it's possible to break 1950 DPS. This is with 100% damage application to anything larger than destroyers out to a range of 40km. Not bad...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid
Decayed Orbit
280
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 11:51:34 -
[117] - Quote
but u can reach like 1850 dps in a rattler with torps (iirc) and still have resists |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
491
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 12:30:51 -
[118] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:but u can reach like 1850 dps in a rattler with torps (iirc) and still have resists
However a marauder will still out tank you with the same number of module slots dedicated to tank (but have to stop moving). Marauders are weird that way 
Also rage torps have a bit of a problem actually applying all that deeps.
I know when I was playing around with the theoretical max dps of ships, I was pushing the polarized Kronos to quite a bit over 2k dps. Only really useful for a structure bash though.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Altair Taurus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.11.03 14:32:55 -
[119] - Quote
OK, I will finish polishing my Rattlesnake soon so I have two questions about rigs and cruise missiles:
1. Should I use T2 Rigor + T1 Rigor or T2 Rigor + T2 Flare rigs (third rig slot is reserved for Drone Control Range Augmentor)?
2. I have already trained T2 cruise missile launchers and I'd like to fire Fury high damage missiles only. However maybe Precision cruise missile have also some purpose and utility on Rattlesnake? Yet maybe Furies with decent missile implants and utility modules are enough for decent damage application? |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4719
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 10:43:42 -
[120] - Quote
Altair Taurus wrote:OK, I will finish polishing my Rattlesnake soon so I have two questions about rigs and cruise missiles:
Answers.
1. I believe you'll get close to the same results with either combination, so I'd stick with the T2/T1 rigor as it will save you some ISK.
2. Precision missiles are essential for shooting anything smaller than battlecruisers with Fury ammunition. I'd also recommend a target painter in addition to the pair of rigors if you're going to be using Fury ammunition (it also helps with applying drone damage).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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