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Altair Taurus Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.09.20 11:27:12 - [1] - Quote So finally I decided to fly Marauder! This is a bit distant goal because I must train about 80 days to be able to fly one. However now it's good time to choose the best Marauder for me. I definitely reject Paladin because I do not fly missions in Amarr space but remaining three Marauders are worth considering. Namely I run missions against Guristas and Serpentis. Thus which of those three beasts would be the best here?
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8568	Posted - 2015.09.20 11:48:17 - [2] - Quote Personally, I find that the Vargur is a good all-rounder, but you probably shouldn't discount the Paladin. Despite what diehard EFT warriors say, the lack of damage type isn't always a major problem (except vs. Angels, perhaps), and it performs quite acceptably in most mission scenarios. [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 228	Posted - 2015.09.20 11:52:55 - [3] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: So finally I decided to fly Marauder! This is a bit distant goal because I must train about 80 days to be able to fly one. However now it's good time to choose the best Marauder for me. I definitely reject Paladin because I do not fly missions in Amarr space but remaining three Marauders are worth considering. Namely I run missions against Guristas and Serpentis. Thus which of those three beasts would be the best here? Paladin. No I'm not kidding. I fly two, currently. Kronos and Paladin. Paladin was my first Marauder. Did every mission with it that did not involve going against empires. Nothing wrong with it in any way, shape, or form. It performs marvelously and is quite versatile. I highly, highly recommend it. The Kronos, well, oddly does not perform nearly as well as you think. Even shooting directly into the resist holes of Guristas and Serps, I find that my mission clearance times are about the same against those enemies when I'm using my Paladin. Same goes for Angels, my time spent smashing red crosses to pieces is about the same for both ships. And anything with EM or thermal vulnerabilities, the Paladin rips apart with holy thunder. So again, my recommendation is for the Paladin. If you really, really are keen on damage selection, the Vargur works quite well from what I hear. But damage selection is largely unnecessary in this day and age. You put enough DPS down the field, the enemy will collapse. Their resistances, other than "elite" ships, are trivial at best. And with all of your weapons dealing double damage thanks to the marauder role bonus, renders any pittance of resistance irrelevant. Golem is what everyone talks about, but missiles can be a big pain in the rear. Delayed damage, you have to severely gimp your setup to be able to hit smaller targets, counting volleys to make sure you don't waste time and ammo on targets, it's all for the birds as far as I'm concerned (hey did I just inadvertently make a Caldari pun?). I did that with my Raven, once I left it behind I felt immediate relief. Turrets are much, much better for my money. I often hear the Vargur referred to as the "Unrivaled king of PvE", so if you really don't want the ease of use and flexibility of the Paladin, go Vargur. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 228	Posted - 2015.09.20 11:55:48 - [4] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Personally, I find that the Vargur is a good all-rounder, but you probably shouldn't discount the Paladin. Despite what diehard EFT warriors say, the lack of damage type isn't always a major problem (except vs. Angels, perhaps), and it performs quite acceptably in most mission scenarios. Posted that while I was typing away, so I didn't see it. But what this man says!! Damage selection is highly overrated. Angels are the only thing that really take me a while to whittle down with energy weapons, but the Kronos' hybrids (shoot into the theoretical secondary kinetic damage hole) don't really work any faster. So if that one sliver of downside is enough to cause you pause, go Vargur and get the damage selection you want. That is pretty much the one and only reason to select a Vargur over a Paladin, as far as I'm concerned. But you can't go wrong either way, both Paladin and Vargur are stellar ships. I just prefer my Pally. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Altair Taurus Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.09.20 11:56:16 - [5] - Quote Is Vargur armed with autocannons or howitzers? Similarly is Kronos armed with blasters or railguns?
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 231	Posted - 2015.09.20 12:02:08 - [6] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: Is Vargur armed with autocannons or howitzers? I haven't flown it, but I can theorize to get your train of thought started. And we can wait for an experienced Vargur pilot to chime in later.... But I'm inclined to say Autocannons. Howizters have a really long refire time, and you are quite likely to way overkill your targets, then spend that refire time waiting to fire again on the next target. If you need range (and some enemies you definitely DO need range), artillery may be your only choice unless you get skilled in movement and positioning (your marauder should probably have two different prop mods on). Other than range, I'd say you'd be better off with Autos. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8568	Posted - 2015.09.20 12:05:37 - [7] - Quote Either - and Khan is quite right in saying this! - but ACs are the best imo. Fantastic damage and range. Additionally, once you get those skills down, a Mach is just a skip away should you decide later to blitz missions. [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Altair Taurus Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.09.20 12:09:06 - [8] - Quote Well, I must put it all into EFT!
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8570	Posted - 2015.09.20 13:51:17 - [9] - Quote I agree wholeheartedly with Khan on the whole Kronos issue - I was psyched when I first got one, after the hybrid rebalance years ago, but really disappointed putting it use. Of course, blasters negate most of this issue when you consider the sheer DPS output, but...meh. Paladin or Vargur are much better - I have no patience for the Golem or salvo counting :) [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3106	Posted - 2015.09.20 13:57:40 - [10] - Quote This is a fit similar to what I use, feel free to bling it up some more but it is a competent ship on its own. [Kronos] Large Armor Repairer II Shadow Serpentis Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Reactive Armor Hardener Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Large Micro Jump Drive 500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400 Federation Navy Stasis Webifier 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II [empty high slot] Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 11899	Posted - 2015.09.20 14:03:34 - [11] - Quote I'll echo Khan here , the paladin is a fantastic ship regardless of which race you are shooting. The reason being it projects out so well that you can just power through the resists even if you are shooting straight into their max resists. You can get over 1000 gun dps out to something silly like 40k and then switch to scotch (mistyped that but I kinda like it) and hit out to 109k instantly and melt face out there too and that's with short range guns. Put tachs an there and you can hit 280k falloff...Yeah I know. It's also by far and away the sexiest looking of the bunch. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Altair Taurus Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2015.09.20 14:54:17 - [12] - Quote Great! I have also question about bastion module and tank. What DPS tank do you think is sufficient in "bastioned" Marauder, because I get very crazy tank values in EFT like 3500 dps or so. Is it unnecessary or simply standard bastion defense?
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 4653	Posted - 2015.09.20 15:35:42 - [13] - Quote Well, I'm going to chime in for the Golem. Yes, it's delayed damage - but with the +25% missile velocity boost from Bastion you're only looking at 3-5 seconds for the most part. Even though you can fit them, I don't recommend torpedoes or rapid heavy missile launchers (you'll end up using Javelin torpedoes and Fury cruise both out-DPS and out-range them; you lose too much DPS to the lengthy reload for rapids). 4x Cruise Missile Launcher II, Fury ammunition 1x Bastion Module I 2x Small Tractor Beam II 1x Salvager II 5x Warrior II 1x Shadow Serpentis 500MN Microwarpdrive 2x Missile Guidance Computer II, precision-scripted 2x Phased Navigation Array 1x Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability 1x Pithum C-Type X-Large Shield Booster 4x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control Unit 2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II This will kill absolutely anything at ranges out to 115km. With +5 missile implants you'll smite all battleships in 2-3 volleys (occasionally one more if they get a repair cycle in), elite cruisers in 2 volleys and everything else (including frigates) in a single volley. Bring along some Precision ammo to deal with missions that have a lot of pesky frigates. Mid-grade Ascendancy implants will boost your warp speed to almost 3 AU/s. With max skills and implants I think it puts out close to 1200 applied DPS (not paper). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8570	Posted - 2015.09.20 15:43:11 - [14] - Quote It's powerful, sure, but the problem with the Golem isn't travel time - it's the RoF on the launchers. Unless you ungroup the launchers, it does get annoying popping cruisers and then having to wait x seconds to attack another target. With ACs or Mega Pulses, it's just a matter of 3 or so seconds - with Torps it's noticeably longer. [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 4653	Posted - 2015.09.20 15:47:03 - [15] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: It's powerful, sure, but the problem with the Golem isn't travel time - it's the RoF on the launchers. Unless you ungroup the launchers, it does get annoying popping cruisers and then having to wait x seconds to attack another target. With ACs or Mega Pulses, it's just a matter of 3 or so seconds - with Torps it's noticeably longer. No argument there - the 8-second cycle time is a real PITA. Most of the players that run Golems split the launchers in two pairs, switch to Precision ammo and designate a TP to each cruiser or frigate. A bit more micromanagement to be sure, but still effective. You can switch to hydraulic rigs for a +40% missile velocity boost but then you need to run Faction ammunition to make up for the lost damage application against anything smaller than battlecruisers. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Rexxorr Zero Corp Tax3 90	Posted - 2015.09.20 16:30:09 - [16] - Quote Paladin, Pulse fit is a beast against em/therm weak nps. Scorch has fantastic range and great dps, large close targets will melt under conflag. Vargur, AC great all arounder, really shines when you have lots of small npc ships, they die faster than you can lock (Lock up ten frigs first before the slaughter). Vargur has the worst dps curve but makes up for it due to having the lowest wasted over kill dps. Golem, Cruise is a great all arounder, Fly in park the Golem and kill all npc in sight. Golem will not kill frigs with the frightening speed of a gun ship(wasted overkill dps), but they will never get under your cruise missiles. Kronos was the last Marauder I trained for. I have tried using it from time to time but I keep going back to one of the other three. The gun ships require you to fly them a bit and position correctly to get them to shine. Ungroup guns for small targets for best effect. I recommend absolute minimal use of bastion mode if at all possible, CCP has a secret code which will cause a disconnect during bastion mode. When you are able to log back in again you will find your Marauder is a wreck. GL
Rena Monachica Capital Hot Rods 36	Posted - 2015.09.20 16:38:29 - [17] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: Great! I have also question about bastion module and tank. What DPS tank do you think is sufficient in "bastioned" Marauder, because I get very crazy tank values in EFT like 1800/3500 sustained/maximum DPS or so. Is it unnecessary or simply standard bastion defense? You can actually use medium reppers on Marauders .. they are cheap and still get a 500-600 dps tank, more than enough for missions. It also allows to be lazy: auto-run and done. That can also save your ship in disconnects btw, I agree that the Paladin works against all enemys, but so does every Marauder. Fighting Angel Cartel in a Paladin isnt that great regarding the Vargur, I mostly use Autocannons, they have sufficient range and the ammo consumption is manageable. Arty works too but I only use them when a onehitkill is required (Scarlet..) the Kronos .. you want to use Blasters, but the problem is that the preferred enemy (Serpentis/Guristas) mostly stays out of effective range. Its quite annoying
Ersahi Kir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2015.09.20 16:41:21 - [18] - Quote The right answer here is to pick the one you like looking at, because they are all beastly ships. Just be aware that the golem does require you to spend some times working on target painter skills to really get the full benefit.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 401	Posted - 2015.09.20 16:58:42 - [19] - Quote Polarized AC Vargur. XL pith + cap booster for tank, rest all damage and application, warp speed rigs.
Altair Taurus Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2015.09.20 17:02:10 - [20] - Quote As for now I am inclined towards Vargur and Golem...
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 4655	Posted - 2015.09.20 17:45:16 - [21] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: As for now I am inclined towards Vargur and Golem... The Golem comes in black. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8574	Posted - 2015.09.20 18:20:03 - [22] - Quote Rena Monachica wrote: regarding the Vargur, I mostly use Autocannons, they have sufficient range and the ammo consumption is manageable. Arty works too but I only use them when a onehitkill is required (Scarlet..) Not quite the whole picture (if you're talking about the second to last room, where Scarlet jumps one final time) - you can take her down in three AC hits. [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Ersahi Kir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 413	Posted - 2015.09.20 20:43:14 - [23] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Rena Monachica wrote: regarding the Vargur, I mostly use Autocannons, they have sufficient range and the ammo consumption is manageable. Arty works too but I only use them when a onehitkill is required (Scarlet..) Not quite the whole picture (if you're talking about the second to last room, where Scarlet jumps one final time) - you can take her down in three AC hits. Scarlet has a large bounty (it's like 5m or something) which makes the arty ships worth taking in that specific mission. You get to kill her three times, and you collect the 5m bounty 3 times. If you can't alpha her though she jumps through so you only collect isk off the last room.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 1733	Posted - 2015.09.20 23:11:25 - [24] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: I often hear the Vargur referred to as the "Unrivaled king of PvE", so if you really don't want the ease of use and flexibility of the Paladin, go Vargur. yet it bends the knee to the machariel. IMO acs are useless without mobility, I don't understand the vargur hype. Ersahi Kir wrote: Scarlet has a large bounty (it's like 5m or something) which makes the arty ships worth taking in that specific mission. You get to kill her three times, and you collect the 5m bounty 3 times. If you can't alpha her though she jumps through so you only collect isk off the last room. afaik it is twice. Once the first time you see her (must alpha as she warps as soon as you take offensive action), and again in the next room where she also drops a cha +3 implant (have something like 20 seconds to kill before warp). Ralph King-Griffin wrote: I'll echo Khan here , the paladin is a fantastic ship regardless of which race you are shooting. The reason being it projects out so well that you can just power through the resists even if you are shooting straight into their max resists. You can get over 1000 gun dps out to something silly like 40k and then switch to scotch (mistyped that but I kinda like it) and hit out to 109k instantly and melt face out there too and that's with short range guns. Put tachs an there and you can hit 280k falloff...Yeah I know. It's also by far and away the sexiest looking of the bunch. at 40ish km I think you are doing something like 1300 with conflag. Altair Taurus wrote: Great! I have also question about bastion module and tank. What DPS tank do you think is sufficient in "bastioned" Marauder, because I get very crazy tank values in EFT like 1800/3500 sustained/maximum DPS or so. Is it unnecessary or simply standard bastion defense? ~300 omni. has been my answer since about the time marauders came out. Bastion doesn't really change the number required, just makes it way easier to get there Bumblefck wrote: It's powerful, sure, but the problem with the Golem isn't travel time - it's the RoF on the launchers. Unless you ungroup the launchers, it does get annoying popping cruisers and then having to wait x seconds to attack another target. With ACs or Mega Pulses, it's just a matter of 3 or so seconds - with Torps it's noticeably longer. Close, but I wouldn't say it is the RoF, more of the whole you have to commit more damage than needed to kill a target, because you can't always 100% know how many missiles to shoot at the target, and out of convenience I usually group all launchers, which leads to a lot of overkill, and waiting full cycle times. With guns they hit instantly and even if I activate every single gun on my ship, only the required amount activate, meaning I almost never have to wait a full cycle to activate the next gun. I almost never group any guns, main exception vs dread pirate scarlet. @ChainsawPlankto
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 108	Posted - 2015.09.21 02:09:41 - [25] - Quote Paladin-------Best PVE Marauder Vargur--------Best PVP Marauder Golem--------Best All Rounder Marauder Kronos-------Best looking Marauder With your skills, I'd say the Golem would be the best choice for you.
Amanda Chan Just The Tip... RAZOR Alliance 49	Posted - 2015.09.21 02:41:09 - [26] - Quote Kronos has a police skin. Just sayin'.
Jack Miton WeebleCORP 4681	Posted - 2015.09.21 02:56:16 - [27] - Quote Paladin: Accept no substitute There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1588	Posted - 2015.09.21 04:20:03 - [28] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Paladin-------Best PVE Marauder Vargur--------Best PVP Marauder Golem--------Best All Rounder Marauder Kronos-------Best looking Marauder With your skills, I'd say the Golem would be the best choice for you. Was going to +1 the Paladin for PvE, but this pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Regarding the Vargur in PvE, it's definitely not a bad ship by any means, but I can't help but feel that save for the EW heavy missions the Machariel is an all around better boat.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 535	Posted - 2015.09.21 04:27:33 - [29] - Quote Personal favorite is the Golem because of the consistency of killing speeds, please note I said consistency not out right speed. For me BS are 4 vollies no matter where I am, maybe 5 for the elites. Mission partners Vargur, Paladin and Kronos can vary from a low of 3 to a high of 6 depending on which ship, which weapons, ammo they are using and which NPC we are fighting. Since I mission with friends in all 4 factions space on a consistent basis I value this consistency as it makes it easier and less confusing to transition from area to area. On the other hand if you are going to mission primarily in just one factions space then I would agree with the others that the Vargur or Paladin are the better options. I never really liked the Kronos because of the shorter range of the weapons systems they can use, and yet that is precisely why my son likes his so much. Addressing some of the oft stated reasons why the Golem is not a good choice. Volley count is never an issue for targets that are closer than 80k to 85k give or take depending on bastion or not and to be honest about 80% of all NPC in mission are well within this range. At these ranges the missiles will hit target before your next cycle begins so no volley counting is required. At ranges over these then volley counting can become a thing if you care about a few extra minutes completion time, or care about a few ISK worth of extra missiles. Micromanaging target painters, used to be a thing but that is all gone now. The Missiles Guidance Computers with precision scripts are a far better option than painters. Yes you give up a little in the signature radius side of the equation, but more than make up for it in the increased explosion velocity side and the smaller and faster the target the better they are. Missile travel time. Can't fight that as it is simply the truth, but then it only matters to those with no patience or to those who get stressed out over an additional couple of minutes to complete a mission. Definitely a thing if you want to blitz. Overall and based on experiences I would say choose the one you like best. If you like missiles then go Golem. If you like turrets then Paladin or Vargur. If you like lasers then Paladin. If you are like my son and prefer blasters then go Kronos.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 402	Posted - 2015.09.21 05:29:05 - [30] - Quote Unless you use Polarized weapons (nad full clear/salvage/loot during mission), there's no real point in using a marauder over something like a Rattlesnake, Machariel, Nightmare, Navy Geddon/Apoc, Navy Raven, etc.

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