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The Grinch is Alive & Well - He flys Amarr (Amarr Seasonal Whine)

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Dolly Parton Amarr 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:44:00 - [91] Edited by: Dolly Parton on 28/12/2006 16:44:43 11 mil SP Amarr pilot here. I see where a lot of the complaints are coming from but in actuality every ship has a weakness. Also not every amarr has same damage type, there are things called missles that do all 4 types. There are drones that do all 4 types. There are also amarr ships that don't give bonuses to lasers - hmm then why run lasers on those ships, since no bonus you can do anything there. Dude that talks about cap issues: Train your cap support skills and change your fittings. Other than Apoc and Abaddon I have found no amarr ship where you can run guns and repair at same time and Abaddon is stretching it depending on the guns your using and the repair your using. You want a better setup for missions and such with cap issues let me know and I'll send you mine. Now before people start ***ing at me about putting nonlasers on an amarr ship, try it, you will do more DPS. Also the drones/missles are use to complement your laser type damages not replace. Would I like more: Cap - Yes Damage Types - Yes Do I feel it is necessary: Cap - No Damage Types - No I do agree PVP wise it could use a tweak but not much really if anything. I've solo PVP in my Vengance against Gallente/Caladari AF and still have my ship. All about setup and tactics, even an all TS fitted - T2 fitted ship does not mean I win. NPC types I have trouble with - Angels, Guristas (easier), the rest are laser fodder * Any comments made are mine and mine alone! ***
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:04:00 - [92] Originally by: Dolly Parton Now before people start *****ing at me about putting nonlasers on an amarr ship, try it, you will do more DPS. Also the drones/missles are use to complement your laser type damages not replace. Wouldn't you say that is a problem? If a ship with specific bonuses to lasers actually does better with nonlasers? Seems a bit ridiculous to me. As towards the capacitor skill thing, there is not that much in terms of skills you can do. One skill for regen, one skill for max cap. (If i'm missing one, PLEASE fill me in). Of course it's helpful to have both maxed, but when it comes down to it it's not gonna save you from a NOS boat. Missles and drones do suppliment our damage types, yes. But our ships are not designed to use missles, most have few to no fittings. As for the Khanid ships, if I wanted to play a shield tanking missle boat I wouldn't be playing Amarr now would I? That's just freaking stupid. Drones, yes. Again, we don't really get bonuses, so their damage is not considerable, just complementary as you stated. It would have been a good show if the Abaddon had been a drone boat as many people desired, but it's not.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:48:00 - [93] Originally by: Dillius Archania We don't need to be made like other races, we need to be better... But... We are! Sorry, could not resist. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.28 18:07:00 - [94] Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Dillius Archania We don't need to be made like other races, we need to be better... But... We are! Sorry, could not resist. Victor wins the thread. But seriously, enslaving the Minmatar was definitely a bad idea if this is what we have to put up with for it.
sdthujfg	Posted - 2006.12.28 19:49:00 - [95] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: sdthujfg Originally by: Grimpak what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning? Uhm, hybrids? Rails are very good snipers, blasters are very good short range gankers and gallente have the biggest drone boats around. So its not fair for us amarrians to ask for the same? then train for gallente what you say is that we should make amarr go long range, short range and droning. in 2 months time after that then caldari and minmatar pilots would demand to go long range, short range and droning aswell. do you see the pattern? tbh amarr needs a change, yes. but not a change that dilutes the races' core concepts even more, wich, imho, was happening till recently by constantly increasing DPS. HP changes and stacking penalty changed that, fortunately, but it is still not enough because it raised other problems: the unsustainability of the blasterboats at longer fights; the EM supertanking effect that came with the EANM boost and compensation skills; the nerf in the minmatar ships' alpha-striking. that's why I said over and over again to make each race more unique again. sure it's a revolution, but it is needed. Uhm long range insta gank, short range gank and drone gank. Is there anything else to be good at? You want to give amarr something else then these 3 pvp "skills"? If we dont get long range, short range OR drones you better give us something insane to compensate. Im intrested to hear what...
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.28 21:05:00 - [96] Originally by: sdthujfg Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: sdthujfg Originally by: Grimpak what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning? Uhm, hybrids? Rails are very good snipers, blasters are very good short range gankers and gallente have the biggest drone boats around. So its not fair for us amarrians to ask for the same? then train for gallente what you say is that we should make amarr go long range, short range and droning. in 2 months time after that then caldari and minmatar pilots would demand to go long range, short range and droning aswell. do you see the pattern? tbh amarr needs a change, yes. but not a change that dilutes the races' core concepts even more, wich, imho, was happening till recently by constantly increasing DPS. HP changes and stacking penalty changed that, fortunately, but it is still not enough because it raised other problems: the unsustainability of the blasterboats at longer fights; the EM supertanking effect that came with the EANM boost and compensation skills; the nerf in the minmatar ships' alpha-striking. that's why I said over and over again to make each race more unique again. sure it's a revolution, but it is needed. Uhm long range insta gank, short range gank and drone gank. Is there anything else to be good at? You want to give amarr something else then these 3 pvp "skills"? If we dont get long range, short range OR drones you better give us something insane to compensate. Im intrested to hear what... Making a race unique is the most difficult part. That's the problem as I see it. I'd rather there be a level playing field than have all the races be totally different. Albeit I don't want total clones of one another, uniqueness does you no good if noone plays the race.
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.29 02:00:00 - [97] Any more opinions? Would like to continue this discussion since it's actually not devolving into a bunch of whining.
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2006.12.29 03:16:00 - [98] one poster made a very interesting observation that i was aware of but never really thought of heavily and/or threw a fit over. Why is it that amarr has a ship bonus to make its guns use less cap? just hear me out on this. now, if amarr guns totally pwned, BUT were unable to sustain fire for very long, the cap reduction bonus would be an ideal bonus to have to allow the guns to shoot a bit longer. now check this out. amarr guns dont pwn. the bonus is completely unecessary. Quote: As a side note, i liken capacitor to blood. Without blood, nothing can function in the body. I do NOT like being a race that bleeds quicker than anyone else. yes, i am an alt..Jovial Quote:
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.29 04:23:00 - [99] Originally by: Jovialmadness one poster made a very interesting observation that i was aware of but never really thought of heavily and/or threw a fit over. Why is it that amarr has a ship bonus to make its guns use less cap? just hear me out on this. now, if amarr guns totally pwned, BUT were unable to sustain fire for very long, the cap reduction bonus would be an ideal bonus to have to allow the guns to shoot a bit longer. now check this out. amarr guns dont pwn. the bonus is completely unecessary. The idea behind the bonus is that that is the only thing that makes lasers even practical to use. It is put on amarr ships because that is supposed to keep any other ships from ever using lasers effectively. In truth, lasers are so horrible that many people who fly amarr will in fact not even use these special weapons that their ships are specifically designed for. So we end up with bonuses we don't need for weapons that aren't worth their restrictions.
justforanxmasgift	Posted - 2006.12.29 04:48:00 - [100] Nice to see some actual constructive dialog - Personally I don't cliam to think any one way of fixing them is best - I know the dev's can pull the numbers and work a boost to Amarr with future game mechanics in mind...the entire Amarr player base is/has been waiting a long time to see if their characters will be as viable as the other races...more proof - other than mentione3d is the price Amarr spec pilots go for - I've been watching for the last several months - and its a good 30-50% (rough numbers) less than any other Race - and a whole lot less interest. All the sings are there - at a high level. The power issue is huge - don't seem to much disagreement with most of the posters who post the valid concerns...the damage to power ratio is out of whack. The mid slots - it seems a lot of people don't think Amarr should be versitile - but if you balance Amarr by making them DPS powerhouses - I think it would be more unbalancing than adding some mid slots or damage type versitility - I still think these are the types of things that need to happen to make Amarr less predictable - pvp is all about knowing your opponent - and the other races are definitly less predicitable - I personally don't think the whole "RP" back story backs up keeping Amarr predictable. To the person saying I have never played with drones ect - I actually have a Gallente alt character with 5 mil in drones - yes drones can be a pain - but once you master them they are the key to the solopwnmobile. So no - Drones are one of the most poweful tools in EVE IMO. Drone boats with +%s to damage of drones are a killer. I'm not claiming to be the most experienced player in pvp/pve and all races - but Iv'e played a few highly skilled/specialized characters and the Amarr pilot is no fun unless in a fleet or ratting Sansha's. Also - yes I think EW that prevents you from targeting your opponent is cheap - I also think NOS is cheap - I'd rather have more skill based pvp and not "iwin" setups. Mastering transversal - recognizing your opponents setup/ship and utilizing your strengths to beat your opponents through gang cooperation are the best of pvp encounters. I want more - and I want more options/capability with my Amarr pilot. /cheers
Dufas Amarr Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.29 05:55:00 - [101] 48mill skill point amarr here...i agree amarr needs some lovin...when i go pvp i use some other race's ship...now i lived in sancha's neighborhood for 2 years and always used amarr to rat in..then i moved to rat with angels and now serpentis and i swear the apoc was shooting but the rats were just laughing at me in local at the dmg ...once lasers get thu the shields you better have someone else around that does some other dmg or you'll be shooting the guy for hr's trying to get thu his armor ..maybe have pulse do some different damage with different crystals as a pulse could be construde as a type of projectile instead of a laser pointer __________
Rudolf Miller	Posted - 2006.12.29 06:14:00 - [102] Edited by: Rudolf Miller on 29/12/2006 06:16:56 The Amarr need some love and focus. Every race have guns as the basic weapon. The other three races have a clear secondary weapon. In the case of the Caldari (missles) and Gallente (drones) the secondary many times is the primary weapon of choice. Matari clearly have missles as the secondary. What is the Amarr secondary weapon, the one that could add some versitility? I can't tell. Some boats are missles and some are drones, but they not very good/useful in these roles. Lasers with EM (primary) / Thermal (secondary) are essential all the same. Yes the percentages of each are different, but not in any meaningful way. As for fitting lasers, it is a pain in the behind. You would think that ship designed for laser would have been design with an adequate power grid. The gankageddon days are long, long gone. CCP grossly over corrected for this problem. It is time for Amarr ships to get a long needed tuning.
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.29 09:59:00 - [103] Originally by: Dufas 48mill skill point amarr here...i agree amarr needs some lovin...when i go pvp i use some other race's ship...now i lived in sancha's neighborhood for 2 years and always used amarr to rat in..then i moved to rat with angels and now serpentis and i swear the apoc was shooting but the rats were just laughing at me in local at the dmg ...once lasers get thu the shields you better have someone else around that does some other dmg or you'll be shooting the guy for hr's trying to get thu his armor ..maybe have pulse do some different damage with different crystals as a pulse could be construde as a type of projectile instead of a laser pointer Once again we reach the problem of being the only race unable to change our damage type. This leaves us permanently gimped in PvE situations, and makes us very predictable in PvP.
Sigela Mantua	Posted - 2006.12.29 11:40:00 - [104] Whinge, Whinge Whinge I WANT AN AMMAR NAVY RAVEN Whinge whinge whinge Stop whinging and get more SP, Laser own, hard. espeacily in pvp, have you never wondered why the geddon vrs structure has a large Alpha strike than a Tempest, and why Beams have much higer Dps than a Howziter. Maybe its because we do have to fight are way through Armour tanks.
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2006.12.29 11:49:00 - [105] Originally by: Sigela Mantua yawn... I think you need to go away from this thread or at least READ it. a lot of people have given very good aguements in this thread and the discussion WAS going well until YOU turned up and messed it up now please go away and troll somewhere else.
Earthan Gallente The Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:00:00 - [106] Maybe ammar need a boost no idea but some points in this complain seem weird to me: 1- We got only 2 dmg type oh poor we.Come on have you checked gallnete recently?how many dmg type do we have? i think 2 also. 2-You got best armor tanks in game , with explosive boost you got no hole in resistances like other races.You got ship resistanc ebonuses, you got bigger armour amount and cap. 3-Ever wondered why during tournament there were plenty of abbadons and i think none hyperion ( or one in starting fights i misssed), very few rokhs?Why everyone was using curse? So come on be fair. The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage
Jouno Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:05:00 - [107] Every race has its ups and downs, amarr can tank and gank at the same time and go to any of the extremes very easy, no other race can do that. Sure your em dmg sucks but you wtfpwn any caldari ship witch represents more then 30% of the ships flown in eve ..... So quit *****ing and learn to fly and setup your ships or train for another race if you hate it that much like the rest of us
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:19:00 - [108] Edited by: Gee''Kin on 29/12/2006 12:22:29 Edited by: Gee''Kin on 29/12/2006 12:20:54 Guess this guy got podded TWICE in his shiny Amarr ship BTW i luv the Abso , Abbad and the Harharhar. Makes Angels and Serpentis hav'ng bad days , and of course Sansha --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
Thetys Surfer des Sandwurms	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:22:00 - [109] Originally by: justforanxmasgift Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 03:15:09 Every Caldari and Gallente Up in the North Liked Christmas a lot... But the Grinch, Who was Amarr, Did NOT! I'm sick of the Amarr issues - they are bold and obvious at a high level. I know it's the same old whine - but I theorize that most people go train another Races and give up on Amarr. - I have given up on two characters - but one of my characters is highly specialized in Amarr ships and he is my "ratting" & solo pvp guy.Once you fly a highly skilled Gallente/Caldari/Matari Pilot - you see how bad off Amarr is. i so feel with ya bro! and yer absolutely right it's all about that silly retardet high EM dmg we do give us more options to play around with dmg type - pleeease!! ------
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:23:00 - [110] Originally by: Thetys Originally by: justforanxmasgift Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 03:15:09 Every Caldari and Gallente Up in the North Liked Christmas a lot... But the Grinch, Who was Amarr, Did NOT! I'm sick of the Amarr issues - they are bold and obvious at a high level. I know it's the same old whine - but I theorize that most people go train another Races and give up on Amarr. - I have given up on two characters - but one of my characters is highly specialized in Amarr ships and he is my "ratting" & solo pvp guy.Once you fly a highly skilled Gallente/Caldari/Matari Pilot - you see how bad off Amarr is. i so feel with ya bro! and yer absolutely right it's all about that silly retardet high EM dmg we do give us more options to play around with dmg type - pleeease!! What about THERMAL ? --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:42:00 - [111] Originally by: Jouno Every race has its ups and downs, amarr can tank and gank at the same time and go to any of the extremes very easy, no other race can do that. Sure your em dmg sucks but you wtfpwn any caldari ship witch represents more then 30% of the ships flown in eve ..... So quit *****ing and learn to fly and setup your ships or train for another race if you hate it that much like the rest of us You have never flown ammar have you? We can tank and gank?? wtf you on have you tried fitting out a tank/gank apoc/abbadon or geddon good luck trying is all im gonna say
Jouno Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:55:00 - [112] Edited by: Jouno on 29/12/2006 12:55:29 You have never flown ammar have you? We can tank and gank?? wtf you on have you tried fitting out a tank/gank apoc/abbadon or geddon good luck trying is all im gonna say Try that with an abso it works
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2006.12.29 13:02:00 - [113] Originally by: Jouno Edited by: Jouno on 29/12/2006 12:55:29 You have never flown ammar have you? We can tank and gank?? wtf you on have you tried fitting out a tank/gank apoc/abbadon or geddon good luck trying is all im gonna say Try that with an abso it works The abso aint been around as long as the geddon and apoc, ALL the ammar BS are unable to fit tank/gank. but of course that dont matter if your a thron pilot or pest pilot.
Harcole Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.29 13:02:00 - [114] I got bored reading the tooing and froing in this thread. so some nice simple facts. Tachyon II fitted Gleam with Skills range = 21km's Mega Pulse II Fitted Scroch with Skills range = 16km's Ok so we're fubared at close range against the Blasterthron, Raven and Autocannon Tempest. (just to name the common targets) Better go long range! Tacyon II fitted Aurora with Skills and Modules = 187km's Hang on whats that Megathron doing out there at 230km's??? ohh he's killing me, time to warp then. Look he has a Tempest out there with him too... The big problem is Amarr ships can't solo, some do very well but as a general statement blanketing the whole race, the answer is a defined... "go get a friend". Regarding the original posters statement "Abaddwtf!" Im sorry but this is one of the best multi-task amarr ships going! with none wrecking hits in the 1000 point range with tachyons and a tank with resists of 70% + if you fit mega's I fail to see what more we could ask for... no wait I can... MORE MID SLOTS! (The Abaddon and Apoc being the example with 4 slots! No I don't think they need more.) But the Retribution with 1? What good is 1 mid slot on any PvP ship? And before anyone takes the post to bits if you can answer that I'll accept that Amarr don't need a little love... I could go on to compare every Amarr ship to there equivalent in the Galantee and Caldari with good comparison, for Im a 40 million skill point character who has trained all Amarr level 5 and Caldari and Galantee to level 5/4 for ships. What I will do is blanket the 3 races I fly with my person opinion... Amarr - Fleet Killers (Hence Dreads and Titans rock) Caldari - The best PvE ships going seconded by the Dominix (Galantee) Galantee - The Best overall PvP solo ships (Caldari have some nice ships too but remember Im blanketing things) I will not comment on Minmatar as I don't fly any of there ships. my 2 isk Harcole Battle Worn Pilot, Lost Soul
sdthujfg	Posted - 2006.12.29 18:04:00 - [115] Originally by: Earthan Maybe ammar need a boost no idea but some points in this complain seem weird to me: 1- We got only 2 dmg type oh poor we.Come on have you checked gallnete recently?how many dmg type do we have? i think 2 also. 2-You got best armor tanks in game , with explosive boost you got no hole in resistances like other races.You got ship resistanc ebonuses, you got bigger armour amount and cap. 3-Ever wondered why during tournament there were plenty of abbadons and i think none hyperion ( or one in starting fights i misssed), very few rokhs?Why everyone was using curse? So come on be fair. 1. Do you know anything about this game? Do you understand how resists on shields and armor work? Let me explain to you. EM - good against shields and bad against armor EX - bad against shields and good against armor KIN/THM res - good enough on both shield AND armor What does this mean? EVERYBODY WANTS AMMO THAT DOES KIN+THERMAL DAMAGE! DUH... 2. What is the use of that small explo boost in our armor when everyone uses kin/thermal dmg against our armor. Wich mostly will end up being our 2 lowest resist if we omni tank. 3. Amarrs are good enough in gang related action. The curse is a drone boat and doesnt use lasers, duh. Thats why its wtfpwn good. The problem is the lack of small gang and solo possibilities with amarr ships (mostly the ones with turrets).
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.29 18:11:00 - [116] Here's the other key fact of the matter in regards to damage types: We have NO crystal that deals even as much Thermal as it does Em (I haven't used scorch, but i'm pretty sure it's the same?) Therefore in truth we only have one damage type: EM. I would not complain about the damage type thing ever again if we had a set of crystals that dealt more thermal than EM. Is that that unreasonable to ask?
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2006.12.29 18:20:00 - [117] Originally by: Sigela Mantua I WANT AN AMMAR NAVY RAVEN Oh my god yes, a golden Raven. I'd so want one. 8/5/8 with Apocalypse HP distribution, 7 launchers and 5% bonus to armor resists and tracking disruptor effectiveness per level plz.
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.29 21:38:00 - [118] The name of the Curse takes on a whole new meaning. "But you have the Curse!" it's a curse for all amarr players who don't want to basically use a gallente nos domi ripoff as their only valid ship in another race.
Daar Gallente United Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.29 23:04:00 - [119] If this is about laser damage types... then please, let us Gallente choose the damage too! ------- Daar Free will is an illusion...
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet	Posted - 2006.12.29 23:11:00 - [120] Amarr suck bawls until you get high SP. Then they can contend. CONTEND. Lottery! Expires December 30th.

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