• NEW guns that fit damage type other than EM & Therm lenses.

• Abbadwtf? - DRONEBOATNEXTTIMEJEEZ

Originally by: subvert

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Edited by: subvert on 25/12/2006 03:26:30
personally what I dont get are the cap bonus to lasers on amarr ships. usually instead of a dps or other buff they get their laser cap buff, but projectiles and missiles dont use cap yet the damage amongst races is fairly balanced. because of this amarr have -1 bonus to their ships. I havent found any upside to this, then again I dont fly amarr

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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^^ I'll bet yer n00b arse doesn't and hasn't ever flown Amarr either!

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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I'm sick of the Amarr issues

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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As a starting Amarr pilot just hitting 3.5 mil SP I can definitely see some kind of problem. It's very easy to counter an Amarr ship. Most of the "dirty tricks" in this game you have to pull outa mid slots, which we don't have. We tank, and deal damage. Problem is, we don't deal THAT much damage, and our tank can be absolutely owned by NOS (Though that is far from exclusive to Amarr).

Any time I say I'm having trouble with some new mission, I'm told it's basically my fault for flying Amarr ships, since there's nothing I can do about my damage type really. You'd have to be blind to say there's not some kind of problem going on. I just wish the Devs would even show some concern or regard for the player base that is still stubborn enough or dedicated enough to stick with Amarr.

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Just thought of a question you should ask yourself.

Why are all of the titans that have been built (or seen) so far, always been the Amarrian Avatar ?

Maybe you are just a bitter n00b

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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uh who's bitter? You obviously have some issues to work on there pal - someone whip this slave.

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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blame the eve forums for logging in the newly created character.

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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I fly a 35 mil Gallente pvp speced character - and a 20 mil Amarr pvp speced character.

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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the only topical addition was about Amarr Titans - awesome job pal

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Just thought of a question you should ask yourself.

Why are all of the titans that have been built (or seen) so far, always been the Amarrian Avatar ?

Maybe you are just a bitter n00b

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 04:56:48
Stop yer Jibba Jabbaa fool!

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Actually - my argument is about predictability and versatility - did you catch that? All races are suppose to have weaknesses - I accept taht - however Amarr's is pretty damn game affecting in all aspects.

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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I know lasers use cap - I don't have a problem with that - its lack of versatility and inability to be effective in pve is the issue I'm raising.

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Amarr: We tank like hell but can do predictable damage ...

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Originally by: Siakel

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Amarr: We tank like hell but can do predictable damage ...

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Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Again, basing an entire race off a few ships. We have, in our entire T1 lineup, four ships that can armortank better than other races. The Caldari still outtank them, but meh.

Also note that of these ships, one can be fit to tank while doing decent damage(Prophecy) and one can be fit to tank and do fairly good damage, if only for a short time(Abaddon). Punisher and Maller do absolutely horrid damage in tank mode.

As for our other ships, they tank, at best, as good as the other races. However, usually they tank less due to cap and grid limitations.

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 05:15:55
Ratting/complexes are a reality of 0.0 - if you want to pvp you need the cash/mods to do it in. I personally do not run missions - but there are plenty of EVE players who do - Amarr does them worst of all. My issue with pvp is predictability and versatility.

Edit - no I'm not being defensive of my comments- I see your first 5 posts ranting about this character I posted with - you're last couple posts at least pertain to the topic - but I really don't feel they are all that relevent because you aren't addressing the actual post - versatility - predictability and in pve - viability.

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 03:15:09
Every Caldari and Gallente Up in the North Liked Christmas a lot... But the Grinch, Who was Amarr, Did NOT!


I'm sick of the Amarr issues - they are bold and obvious at a high level. I know it's the same old whine - but I theorize that most people go train another Races and give up on Amarr. - I have given up on two characters - but one of my characters is highly specialized in Amarr ships and he is my "ratting" & solo pvp guy.Once you fly a highly skilled Gallente/Caldari/Matari Pilot - you see how bad off Amarr is.

Amarr pilots suck when ratting on anything but Sansha - this blows my mind. I won't get into the nitty gritty of Amarr vs other Races - but if you fly Amarr you know how bad it sucks...at least if you've flown others. It goes farther - not only does it suck to do such crappy damage on things other than Sansha - but the kicker is - Good Luck getting gear in 0.0 without hauling it all in yourself. Caldari? Gallente? sure we got loads of crap floating around in 0.0 for you.


PvP - sure we are okay in fleets (who freaking isn't) - but we are predictable! One Phrase - "Know your enemy" Who doesn't know Amarr?


Ammo-less? riiight - we have lenses - they cost a lot - it is a tradeoff - use no ammo but it costs a lot - or use ammo and it doesn't cost a lot (when compared to millions in lenses in your cargohold)


Sure Amarr has a decent ship or two - but the race pales in comparison to all others in the predictable pvp and sad pve ratting versitility that all other races have. And yes, we all know there are some really ubersuperBBQ Amarr pilots out there - who fly Pilgrims and solo fleets. Imagine how much better he would be if he flew gallente/minmatar.


Amarr really needs some way to be less predictable in PvP and more viable in areas out of the Sansha Kingdoms for PvE.


There is a ton of proof that Amarr is broken - first and most obvious is the vacant home lands. Second is that lasers/ships are the cheapest out there because the demand is so much lower than the other races.


I've got some ideas that would fix the Grinches woes -

• NEW guns that fit damage type other than EM & Therm lenses.

• Abbadwtf? - DRONEBOATNEXTTIMEJEEZ

Is it really too much to ask for a combat setup to not be easily predictable in PvP and to allow Amarr pilots to do equally well when ratting out in 0.0?

What the hell does Amarr do better than other Races? Whine? Yeah for sure - but that's it by far.

---

Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Originally by: Siakel

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Amarr: We tank like hell but can do predictable damage ...

---

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Again, basing an entire race off a few ships. We have, in our entire T1 lineup, four ships that can armortank better than other races. The Caldari still outtank them, but meh.

Also note that of these ships, one can be fit to tank while doing decent damage(Prophecy) and one can be fit to tank and do fairly good damage, if only for a short time(Abaddon). Punisher and Maller do absolutely horrid damage in tank mode.

As for our other ships, they tank, at best, as good as the other races. However, usually they tank less due to cap and grid limitations.

---

Nice how you missed my comments about the other races.

And about your Punisher and Maller, let's take the Minmatar Rifter and Rupture to compare them with.

The rifter has awesome speed but can't do the consistent damage that lasers can do and, do all other races, suffer for a 10 second reload when changing ammo to match the range of their target. Maller vs. Rupture, well it gets a bit closer there now doesn't it. A Maller has to get close enough for the damage to count and a Rupture can almost always stay at range.

So how about this:

Give Minmatar a speed and sig radius bonus on all thier ships.
Give Gallente fall off bonuses to all their weapon types (big ones).
Give Caldari missiles the chance to miss and also have a wrecking hit where their missiles manage to hit a core system.
Give Amarr something but make sure that they also have a 10 second crystal reload time and a reduced DOT because their lasers overheat and need cooling cycles (equal to hybrid/projectile/missile RoF and reload).

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 05:38:48
You're calling me a n00b and a mission running carebear for mentioning pve? - and then you backup these comments by referring to my mentioning pvp 5 times and then pve 3 times in the OP?


Seriously, I'm done responsing you to you - you just want to argue and be a general arse - for whatever reason.

PS - You're a tool.

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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^^ I'll bet yer n00b arse doesn't and hasn't ever flown Amarr either!

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 05:38:48
...
PS - You're a tool.

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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In all seriousness, anyone wanna give me advice related to this area as towards what I should do about rats such as Guristas in missions? High EM/Therm resists, and I can't do anything but that? I just gotta accept the fact that on at least half of all missions I ever do, I will be handicapped due to the mechanics of Amarr?

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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In all seriousness, anyone wanna give me advice related to this area as towards what I should do about rats such as Guristas in missions? High EM/Therm resists, and I can't do anything but that? I just gotta accept the fact that on at least half of all missions I ever do, I will be handicapped due to the mechanics of Amarr?

---

If you want to kill Guristas fly Caldari (... Ravens), their "natural enemies", most damage and best resistances for their damage/resistance types. Same as Amarr against Sanshas.

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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In all seriousness, anyone wanna give me advice related to this area as towards what I should do about rats such as Guristas in missions? High EM/Therm resists, and I can't do anything but that? I just gotta accept the fact that on at least half of all missions I ever do, I will be handicapped due to the mechanics of Amarr?

---

If you want to kill Guristas fly Caldari (... Ravens), their "natural enemies", most damage and best resistances for their damage/resistance types. Same as Amarr against Sanshas.

---

Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 04:56:48
Stop yer Jibba Jabbaa fool!

Actually - my argument is about predictability and versatility - did you catch that? All races are suppose to have weaknesses - I accept taht - however Amarr's is pretty damn game affecting in all aspects.

I know lasers use cap - I don't have a problem with that - its lack of versatility and inability to be effective in pve is the issue I'm raising.

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Originally by: Mr Li

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Amarr isn't suppose to be versatile and unpredictable. That's the culture, the roleplay of Ammar; stubbornly sticking to traditions, thinking that their ships and tactics are inherently superior. I agree some changes should take place, but not within Amarrian ships or lasers (besides maybe reducing the cap use of lasers by 50% and then giving a real bonus to ships... but besides the point). The real problem is with the uberness of NOS and that resistances in general are too easy to raise across the board. Get rid of EANMs and Invuln Fields and see what happens. Reduce NOS effectiveness and see what happens.

Without the omni resist boosting modules armor tanking pilots will have to make a choice to leave their t1 base EM damage at 60% to raise the EXP KIN and THERM with specific hardeners or DCs and shield tankers will have to plug that HUGE EM hole and also the Thermal deficiency of shields.

Nerfed NOS = Boosted cap.

The real problems are solved. Now to change that whole Versatility thing all you can do is ger yourself a Minmatar character. I hear they're fun.

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Originally by: Panshin Bolo

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Edited by: Panshin Bolo on 25/12/2006 03:32:13
Zealot, curse, etc,

---

Quote:

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Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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Originally by: Mr Li

---

Amarr isn't suppose to be versatile and unpredictable. That's the culture, the roleplay of Ammar; stubbornly sticking to traditions, thinking that their ships and tactics are inherently superior. I agree some changes should take place, but not within Amarrian ships or lasers (besides maybe reducing the cap use of lasers by 50% and then giving a real bonus to ships... but besides the point). The real problem is with the uberness of NOS and that resistances in general are too easy to raise across the board. Get rid of EANMs and Invuln Fields and see what happens. Reduce NOS effectiveness and see what happens.

Without the omni resist boosting modules armor tanking pilots will have to make a choice to leave their t1 base EM damage at 60% to raise the EXP KIN and THERM with specific hardeners or DCs and shield tankers will have to plug that HUGE EM hole and also the Thermal deficiency of shields.

Nerfed NOS = Boosted cap.

The real problems are solved. Now to change that whole Versatility thing all you can do is ger yourself a Minmatar character. I hear they're fun.

---

Hit the nail on the head.

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Quote:

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Ammo-less? riiight - we have lenses - they cost a lot - it is a tradeoff - use no ammo but it costs a lot - or use ammo and it doesn't cost a lot (when compared to millions in lenses in your cargohold)

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Originally by: Wrangler

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We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!

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Originally by: Isyel

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You fail. Simple.

Amarr should NEVER, EVER be versatile. NEVER. Got it now? Need to say it again? NEVER.

They should do what they do, and do it well. They have some issues in that department (guns and tanking) but i sure as hell hope they never make you slaver bastards () more versatile. It's not because of some Amarr hate that i say it, it's because it's only right.

Change stuff around a bit so you have the best armor tanks, and your lasers aren't crap as you make it out to be, but please. No versatiliy.

---

Quote:

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Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?

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Originally by: Xendie

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Originally by: Isyel

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You fail. Simple.

Amarr should NEVER, EVER be versatile. NEVER. Got it now? Need to say it again? NEVER.

They should do what they do, and do it well. They have some issues in that department (guns and tanking) but i sure as hell hope they never make you slaver bastards () more versatile. It's not because of some Amarr hate that i say it, it's because it's only right.

Change stuff around a bit so you have the best armor tanks, and your lasers aren't crap as you make it out to be, but please. No versatiliy.

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wtb what you are smoking, it most be strong stuff.

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Originally by: Wrangler

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We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!

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Originally by: Tareen Kashaar

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Easy solution:

Nerf nos.

Problem solved, Amarr are fine again.

It just doesn't make any sense that when a 4mil ship like a Vexor packs a rack of nos, it kills a 180mil amarr ship because it can no longer tank nor do damage. That's just overpowered...

For the record: I have an Amarr and a Gallente character, the second of which specializes in nos and drones.

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Originally by: Wrangler

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We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!

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Originally by: sdthujfg

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EVERYONE STFU!

THERE ARE NO IFS OR BUTS. AMARR IS GIMPED. LOOK AT HOW MANY PPL PLAY AMARR. LOOK AT HOW EMTPY AMARR SPACE IS COMPARED TO OTHERS. THIS IS ALL THE PROOF AND LOGIC YOU NEED TO SEE THAT AMARR IS ****** UP. SO PLZ. DROP THE STUPID COUNTER ARGUMENTS. ITS FRIGGIN OBVIOUS.

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Originally by: Oveur (at FanFest 2006)

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Titans aren't meant to be cost-effective - they're giant ****s!

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Originally by: Isyel

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Originally by: Xendie

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Originally by: Isyel

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You fail. Simple.

Amarr should NEVER, EVER be versatile. NEVER. Got it now? Need to say it again? NEVER.

They should do what they do, and do it well. They have some issues in that department (guns and tanking) but i sure as hell hope they never make you slaver bastards () more versatile. It's not because of some Amarr hate that i say it, it's because it's only right.

Change stuff around a bit so you have the best armor tanks, and your lasers aren't crap as you make it out to be, but please. No versatiliy.

---

wtb what you are smoking, it most be strong stuff.

---

Here, have some. *throws him some backstory* Sigh.

Sorry if every time i fight amarr RPers i hear the same old crap about their lasers burning brightly trough space, burning us heretics, and their golden hulls something or another every single time. Or the fact that everywhere amarr are presented as the strongest armor tanking gunnery race. Sure you have a few exceptions, but please...

Oh, by the way, a while ago i saw Amarr whining about not wanting to be versatile as it's not 'in the Amarr spirit'. Came back to hit you one the head, did it? (Old Khanid threads, asking for the same old boring armor tanking laserfest.)

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Quote:

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Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?

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Originally by: slip66

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Edited by: slip66 on 25/12/2006 19:45:20
This is why amarr never get respect. All our post are whines instead of well thought out post.

btw the gankageddon only lasted for about 1 year maybe less.

The reason the first titans were amarr is because of their cap bonus to the fleet. Each of he other races bonuses rock too.

amarr are overall pretty good ships.
1) They are NOT for solo pvp with a VERY few exceptions.
2) They excel in group play where you can fit for damage or tank not both. There are some ships able to do both well.
3) They are predictable due to their lack of mids and damage type.
4) They are generally good/great for PVE unless your shooting angel NPCs.

I have maxed out caldari BS and nerly maxed missile skills. I have maxed amarr gunnery etc. Guess what I use the most?

Yep amarr, for PVE AND PVP. I do just fine thank you. know your race, adapt, don't try to make amarr into something they are not.

If you want versatility train for a secondary race. It only takes about 1 and 1/2 years to max out a race and get into the t2 weapons and ships.


here is a well thought out post IMO:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=441782

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Originally by: Talthrus

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Hurr let's keep a race unbalanced because it's in the backstory! Yeah! That's a great idea!

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Originally by: slip66

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This is why amarr never get respect. All our post are whines instead of well thought out post.

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Amarr pilots suck when ratting on anything but Sansha - this blows my mind.

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Originally by: Redback911

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I dont have any issue with lasers, or the predictability of em. Or teh lack of midslots. Only thing that really annoys me is the crap Cap. Sure, its -slightly- better than other races, but it should be MUCH better (30-40%). This change and this alone would fix Amarr in my eyes.

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Originally by: meppa

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Curse broken also since no sane person fits lasers to it? :)

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Originally by: meppa

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I have nothing against people gimping their amarrian ships with projectiles. (...) Only time projectiles are better is when fighting angel npc ships.

---

Quote:

---

Is domi broken cos there is valid setup that doesn't use hybrids?

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Quote:

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Curse broken also since no sane person fits lasers to it?

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Quote:

---

In some rare cases there are setups that are valid that don't use your racial weapons.

---

Quote:

---

I never fit anything but lasers to my amarrian ships.

---

Quote:

---

I even use only amarrian drones because they are lot cooler.

---

Quote:

---

Amarr are not broken, they have couple of issues which would be nice to see adressed. I have cap problems very rarely so it isn't cap use but then again fitting beams is hard as hell. So far i have not found any frigate sized ship that can fit a full rack of medium beams (biggest frigate sized beam) without totally gimping the setup, on the otherhand they seem to be used on mallers. On cruiser level only ships i have managed to fit heavy beams (largest cruiser beam) are harbinger and absolution, which are both battlecruisers. Tachyons are only valid for apoc then again and geddon even strugles to fit megabeams. Some might say that this is how they are designed or that how amarrian beams are kind of superweapons and really ment for one size category higher. To counter that it is because of our racial secondary bonus, -10% cap use per level. Our biggest guns are ment to hurt as hell and we are ment to put them on correct sized ships. This is why we have the cap use bonus. Our lasers have built in damage modifiers. Atm it is nearly impossible to use biggest size beam lasers because of fitting requirements so we have to use smaller size category and this advantage is lost.

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Quote:

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Fixing amarr in any other way will lead to horrible things. Take a look at abaddon and fit it with megapulses and 4 heatsinks. You will see it ripping trough full em+thermal tanks. If you have logistics around try tachyons and you deal even more damage, but get gimped otherwise because of cap drain and lack of powergrid to fit things to support it. If only cap drain would be fixed by giving all lasers 50% less cap use that thing would truly be a monster. But so would all amarrian ships with two usefull bonuses

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Originally by: Isyel

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You fail. Simple.

Amarr should NEVER, EVER be versatile. NEVER. Got it now? Need to say it again? NEVER.

They should do what they do, and do it well. They have some issues in that department (guns and tanking) but i sure as hell hope they never make you slaver bastards () more versatile. It's not because of some Amarr hate that i say it, it's because it's only right.

Change stuff around a bit so you have the best armor tanks, and your lasers aren't crap as you make it out to be, but please. No versatiliy.

---

Originally by: sdthujfg

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Originally by: Ifni

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Edited by: Ifni on 25/12/2006 22:19:13
Whilst I will agree there should probably be a buff to Amarr, I'm not sure what it would be. I don't feel they are as bad as the OP makes out.

Now yes, I am Amarr specced. Amarr BS 5, all laser specs to 4, and I've been flying them for ages. When it comes to small gang PVP I can hold my own, and looking through my stats on the DNA kill list reveals this:

1: Crusader [467]
2: Armageddon [306]
3: Malediction [252]
4: Apocalypse [238]
5: Prophecy [194]
6: Maller [154]
7: Zealot [141]
8: Brutix [76]
9: Sacrilege [66]
10: Stiletto [52]

The numbers in brackets show the number of kills that each ship type has been involved in. There are over 2000 kills in that database that I have been involved in and it certainly doesn't appear that Amarr suck.

Looking at DNA's entire corporate Top 10, the top ships are:

1: Armageddon [1557]
2: Crusader [1453]
3: Absolution [931]
4: Megathron [876]
5: Crow [785]
6: Taranis [753]
7: Prophecy [656]
8: Malediction [601]
9: Apocalypse [590]
10: Raven [566]

There are over 10,000 kills for the entire corp so its a large baseline to draw conclusions from. Again, the majority of ships are all Amarr based. Now, we have alot of Gallente specced characters in the corp, in addition to the Amarr ones, but it certainly would seem that there are little problems with Amarr when you consider those results. You have to remember, that in most PVP, its all about situational awareness. It's only in an extended fight that the minor differences show themselves.

---

Excuse me for asking but, are you stupid? Or do you think we are stupid to fall for this totally misguiding statistic about amarr ships?

Why do you think crusader and malediction are one of the top involved in ship kills? Its so obvious baby jesus has to cry. Its because interceptors get locks on everything. IT DOESNT MEAN THEY GANKED THE TARGET! Gessh

How about you show us how many amarr ships got killing blows or list amarr ship solo kills or list top killer weapons statistic. How about that?
Btw, we dont know anything about how many amarr, cald, gall and minni players and their activity they have in DNA.

I could show you my alliance statistic and it shows the opposite. This doesnt prove anything.

Sure absolution ganks, curse ganks and geddon ganks. Question is, do we have to get everything to lvl 5 and be able to fly commandships just to get up to pair with other races?

How about you explain why amarr space is so empty? How about you explain why amarr ships are so cheap? Its so stupidly obvious that amarr doesnt compete with the other races. If you cant see this youre blind or stupid.

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Originally by: Tiuwaz

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for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons

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Originally by: Grimpak

---

oh and btw, ifni is right: Amarr ships are not that good like other ships at solo, but they shine very brightly in gangs.

and to the ones dissing out the storyline I say this:

what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning?




yah I know, boring.

what needs to be done is to increase amarr ships strength and not giving them roles that are already occupied by other ships.


EANM's need to be changed. not nerfed, but changed.
NOS needs to be changed.
the lasers need something else to give them more useability, and no, i'm not talking about more damage types.
amarr tanks need to be improved ten fold.

there are many things you can do while maintaining what amarr ships are supposed to be: freakin' big golden turret platforms that can dish as much punishment as they can sustain and at the same time, inflexible.

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Originally by: Grimpak

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what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning?

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Originally by: sdthujfg

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Originally by: Grimpak

---

what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning?

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Uhm, hybrids? Rails are very good snipers, blasters are very good short range gankers and gallente have the biggest drone boats around. So its not fair for us amarrians to ask for the same?

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Originally by: Tiuwaz

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for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: sdthujfg

---

Originally by: Grimpak

---

what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning?

---

Uhm, hybrids? Rails are very good snipers, blasters are very good short range gankers and gallente have the biggest drone boats around. So its not fair for us amarrians to ask for the same?

---

then train for gallente

what you say is that we should make amarr go long range, short range and droning.

in 2 months time after that then caldari and minmatar pilots would demand to go long range, short range and droning aswell.


do you see the pattern?



tbh amarr needs a change, yes.

but not a change that dilutes the races' core concepts even more, wich, imho, was happening till recently by constantly increasing DPS.

HP changes and stacking penalty changed that, fortunately, but it is still not enough because it raised other problems: the unsustainability of the blasterboats at longer fights;
the EM supertanking effect that came with the EANM boost and compensation skills;
the nerf in the minmatar ships' alpha-striking.

that's why I said over and over again to make each race more unique again.

sure it's a revolution, but it is needed.

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

---

In all seriousness, anyone wanna give me advice related to this area as towards what I should do about rats such as Guristas in missions? High EM/Therm resists, and I can't do anything but that? I just gotta accept the fact that on at least half of all missions I ever do, I will be handicapped due to the mechanics of Amarr?

---

If you want to kill Guristas fly Caldari (... Ravens), their "natural enemies", most damage and best resistances for their damage/resistance types. Same as Amarr against Sanshas.

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: sdthujfg

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Originally by: Grimpak

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what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning?

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Uhm, hybrids? Rails are very good snipers, blasters are very good short range gankers and gallente have the biggest drone boats around. So its not fair for us amarrians to ask for the same?

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then train for gallente

what you say is that we should make amarr go long range, short range and droning.

in 2 months time after that then caldari and minmatar pilots would demand to go long range, short range and droning aswell.


do you see the pattern?



tbh amarr needs a change, yes.

but not a change that dilutes the races' core concepts even more, wich, imho, was happening till recently by constantly increasing DPS.

HP changes and stacking penalty changed that, fortunately, but it is still not enough because it raised other problems: the unsustainability of the blasterboats at longer fights;
the EM supertanking effect that came with the EANM boost and compensation skills;
the nerf in the minmatar ships' alpha-striking.

that's why I said over and over again to make each race more unique again.

sure it's a revolution, but it is needed.

---

We don't need to be made like other races, we need to be better at what we're meant to do. The problem is, as someone has pointed out, we can't be overwhelmingly superior at raw combat or other races will be screwed. So the question is, where is the middle ground?

Should the laser cap reduction bonus be put on the side, and our ships have 2 bonuses independant of that? Not only would that add power to our ships, but it'd be a limited element of "versatility" added to all of our ships.

Should we be given crystals that deal a different damage type? Perhaps (and the only reasonable one really) thermal?

The Abaddon. 3 gunboats that have very little uniqueness between them. Though I guess this is a "versatility" issue.

This discussion is certainly getting somewhere after a bit of mindless yelling. What other ideas and problems are people thinking about?

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Originally by: Tiuwaz

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for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons

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Originally by: Aralis

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Bad as Amarr ships are - Khanid ships are worse. They claim to be flexible - actually they are gimped by being bad at everything. Take the Damnation as their top ship. Bad as the laser cap bonus is for a proper Amarr ship it's worse for the Damnation as likely as not you'll fit no lasers at all. Secondly they claim to be flexible. 7 high slots, 4 turrets and 4 missile bays. As with many similar ships (Typhoon, the Sansha BS and others) this doesn't make them flexible. It just means they are all round bad. You can't do any decent damage because damage mods only help half your weapons. The simple logical solution would be to give it 7 turrets and 7 missile bays. Still wouldn't make it a great ship but it would be genuinely flexible. (The Damnation is further insulted by it's other bonus - 5% bonus to laser range when a) it's likely not to use lasers at all, b) would at best apply to half your slots and c) a 10% bonus is more normal for range.)

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Originally by: xHalcyonx

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Ways to fix Amarr:
1. More cap or faster cap regen
2. Crystals with different damage types (case in point: Blaze* crystals)

Look up Entity in your People and Places search. Look at his bio. Go to his collection of items. There is a list of misc. items there, one of which is "Blaze M". If memeory serves me correctly it has 6 EM and 20 Expl damage types. Yes, 6/20. Go look it up.

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Originally by: Dolly Parton

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Now before people start *****ing at me about putting nonlasers on an amarr ship, try it, you will do more DPS. Also the drones/missles are use to complement your laser type damages not replace.

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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We don't need to be made like other races, we need to be better...

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Originally by: Victor Vision

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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We don't need to be made like other races, we need to be better...

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But... We are!

Sorry, could not resist.

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: sdthujfg

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Originally by: Grimpak

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what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning?

---

Uhm, hybrids? Rails are very good snipers, blasters are very good short range gankers and gallente have the biggest drone boats around. So its not fair for us amarrians to ask for the same?

---

then train for gallente

what you say is that we should make amarr go long range, short range and droning.

in 2 months time after that then caldari and minmatar pilots would demand to go long range, short range and droning aswell.


do you see the pattern?



tbh amarr needs a change, yes.

but not a change that dilutes the races' core concepts even more, wich, imho, was happening till recently by constantly increasing DPS.

HP changes and stacking penalty changed that, fortunately, but it is still not enough because it raised other problems: the unsustainability of the blasterboats at longer fights;
the EM supertanking effect that came with the EANM boost and compensation skills;
the nerf in the minmatar ships' alpha-striking.

that's why I said over and over again to make each race more unique again.

sure it's a revolution, but it is needed.

---

Originally by: sdthujfg

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: sdthujfg

---

Originally by: Grimpak

---

what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning?

---

Uhm, hybrids? Rails are very good snipers, blasters are very good short range gankers and gallente have the biggest drone boats around. So its not fair for us amarrians to ask for the same?

---

then train for gallente

what you say is that we should make amarr go long range, short range and droning.

in 2 months time after that then caldari and minmatar pilots would demand to go long range, short range and droning aswell.


do you see the pattern?



tbh amarr needs a change, yes.

but not a change that dilutes the races' core concepts even more, wich, imho, was happening till recently by constantly increasing DPS.

HP changes and stacking penalty changed that, fortunately, but it is still not enough because it raised other problems: the unsustainability of the blasterboats at longer fights;
the EM supertanking effect that came with the EANM boost and compensation skills;
the nerf in the minmatar ships' alpha-striking.

that's why I said over and over again to make each race more unique again.

sure it's a revolution, but it is needed.

---

Uhm long range insta gank, short range gank and drone gank. Is there anything else to be good at? You want to give amarr something else then these 3 pvp "skills"? If we dont get long range, short range OR drones you better give us something insane to compensate. Im intrested to hear what...

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Quote:

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As a side note, i liken capacitor to blood. Without blood, nothing can function in the body. I do NOT like being a race that bleeds quicker than anyone else. yes, i am an alt..Jovial

Quote:

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Originally by: Jovialmadness

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one poster made a very interesting observation that i was aware of but never really thought of heavily and/or threw a fit over. Why is it that amarr has a ship bonus to make its guns use less cap?

just hear me out on this. now, if amarr guns totally pwned, BUT were unable to sustain fire for very long, the cap reduction bonus would be an ideal bonus to have to allow the guns to shoot a bit longer. now check this out. amarr guns dont pwn. the bonus is completely unecessary.

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Originally by: Dufas

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48mill skill point amarr here...i agree amarr needs some lovin...when i go pvp i use some other race's ship...now i lived in sancha's neighborhood for 2 years and always used amarr to rat in..then i moved to rat with angels and now serpentis and i swear the apoc was shooting but the rats were just laughing at me in local at the dmg ...once lasers get thu the shields you better have someone else around that does some other dmg or you'll be shooting the guy for hr's trying to get thu his armor

..maybe have pulse do some different damage with different crystals as a pulse could be construde as a type of projectile instead of a laser pointer

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Originally by: Sigela Mantua

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yawn...

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 03:15:09
Every Caldari and Gallente Up in the North Liked Christmas a lot... But the Grinch, Who was Amarr, Did NOT!


I'm sick of the Amarr issues - they are bold and obvious at a high level. I know it's the same old whine - but I theorize that most people go train another Races and give up on Amarr. - I have given up on two characters - but one of my characters is highly specialized in Amarr ships and he is my "ratting" & solo pvp guy.Once you fly a highly skilled Gallente/Caldari/Matari Pilot - you see how bad off Amarr is.

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Originally by: Thetys

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Originally by: justforanxmasgift

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Edited by: justforanxmasgift on 25/12/2006 03:15:09
Every Caldari and Gallente Up in the North Liked Christmas a lot... But the Grinch, Who was Amarr, Did NOT!


I'm sick of the Amarr issues - they are bold and obvious at a high level. I know it's the same old whine - but I theorize that most people go train another Races and give up on Amarr. - I have given up on two characters - but one of my characters is highly specialized in Amarr ships and he is my "ratting" & solo pvp guy.Once you fly a highly skilled Gallente/Caldari/Matari Pilot - you see how bad off Amarr is.

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i so feel with ya bro! and yer absolutely right
it's all about that silly retardet high EM dmg we do
give us more options to play around with dmg type - pleeease!!

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Originally by: Jouno

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Every race has its ups and downs, amarr can tank and gank at the same time and go to any of the extremes very easy, no other race can do that. Sure your em dmg sucks but you wtfpwn any caldari ship witch represents more then 30% of the ships flown in eve .....

So quit *****ing and learn to fly and setup your ships or train for another race if you hate it that much like the rest of us

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Originally by: Jouno

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Edited by: Jouno on 29/12/2006 12:55:29

You have never flown ammar have you? We can tank and gank?? wtf you on have you tried fitting out a tank/gank apoc/abbadon or geddon

good luck trying is all im gonna say

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Originally by: Earthan

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Maybe ammar need a boost no idea but some points in this complain seem weird to me:

1- We got only 2 dmg type oh poor we.Come on have you checked gallnete recently?how many dmg type do we have? i think 2 also.

2-You got best armor tanks in game , with explosive boost you got no hole in resistances like other races.You got ship resistanc ebonuses, you got bigger armour amount and cap.

3-Ever wondered why during tournament there were plenty of abbadons and i think none hyperion ( or one in starting fights i misssed), very few rokhs?Why everyone was using curse? So come on be fair.

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Originally by: Sigela Mantua

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I WANT AN AMMAR NAVY RAVEN

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Originally by: Daar

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If this is about laser damage types... then please, let us Gallente choose the damage too!

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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Originally by: Daar

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If this is about laser damage types... then please, let us Gallente choose the damage too!

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Feel free to educate me as towards the Gallente's restrictions. I'll enjoy arguing them.

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Originally by: Tiuwaz

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for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Edited by: Grimpak on 30/12/2006 07:30:10

Originally by: Dillius Archania

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Originally by: Daar

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If this is about laser damage types... then please, let us Gallente choose the damage too!

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Feel free to educate me as towards the Gallente's restrictions. I'll enjoy arguing them.

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not all ships have great drone bays, and drones can still be popped.


edit: whoooo... bed... now....

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Originally by: Daar

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If this is about laser damage types... then please, let us Gallente choose the damage too!

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Originally by: Jaabaa Prime

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Just thought of a question you should ask yourself.

Why are all of the titans that have been built (or seen) so far, always been the Amarrian Avatar ?

Maybe you are just a bitter n00b

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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Here's the other key fact of the matter in regards to damage types:

We have NO crystal that deals even as much Thermal as it does Em (I haven't used scorch, but i'm pretty sure it's the same?)

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: sdthujfg

---

Originally by: Grimpak

---

what if all races were good at short range, long range and droning?

---

Uhm, hybrids? Rails are very good snipers, blasters are very good short range gankers and gallente have the biggest drone boats around. So its not fair for us amarrians to ask for the same?

---

then train for gallente

what you say is that we should make amarr go long range, short range and droning.

in 2 months time after that then caldari and minmatar pilots would demand to go long range, short range and droning aswell.


do you see the pattern?



tbh amarr needs a change, yes.

but not a change that dilutes the races' core concepts even more, wich, imho, was happening till recently by constantly increasing DPS.

HP changes and stacking penalty changed that, fortunately, but it is still not enough because it raised other problems: the unsustainability of the blasterboats at longer fights;
the EM supertanking effect that came with the EANM boost and compensation skills;
the nerf in the minmatar ships' alpha-striking.

that's why I said over and over again to make each race more unique again.

sure it's a revolution, but it is needed.

---

Originally by: Reiisha

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Knowing your enemy is useless in eve without knowing in what ship he is in.

If you seriously expect people to tank EM/Thermal mainly for any and all pvp/pve encounters.....

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Originally by: sdthujfg

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Originally by: Daar

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If this is about laser damage types... then please, let us Gallente choose the damage too!

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What for? Only an idiot would want anything else then kin+thermal for pvp.

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Originally by: Daar

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Originally by: sdthujfg

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Originally by: Daar

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If this is about laser damage types... then please, let us Gallente choose the damage too!

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What for? Only an idiot would want anything else then kin+thermal for pvp.

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Uhm, some explosive wouldn't hurt against certain targets.

And, PvP aside, being able to choose damage is godsend for PvE (I can see it now, being called a carebear and all... I don't care, I PvP too).

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Gallente have bigger drone bays then amarr = amarr still have bigger problem with their damage type. Dont try to level gallente "problems" with amarrs. Its a world of difference if you look at the big picture.
How is gallente bad? As stated above you have big drone bays, super gank at closerange + nice allround dmg types AND longest long range weaponry that does insta damage?

Youre not convincing anyone to give gallente a boost of any kind.

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Originally by: Daar

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Edited by: Daar on 30/12/2006 23:22:05

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Gallente have bigger drone bays then amarr = amarr still have bigger problem with their damage type. Dont try to level gallente "problems" with amarrs. Its a world of difference if you look at the big picture.
How is gallente bad? As stated above you have big drone bays, super gank at closerange + nice allround dmg types AND longest long range weaponry that does insta damage?

Youre not convincing anyone to give gallente a boost of any kind.

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Boost? Well, if you call it like that...

Right now all I can do is pick some heavy minmatar drones, if I want to dish out some decent damage against certain targets.

I'm not saying Thermal / Kin is bad, but really, I envy Minmatar the ability to choose and mix what they want to shoot.

PS. And no, I'm NOT saying Gallente are weak or anything. I'm just saying that being able to pick a damage type is really nice.

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Originally by: Scoundrelus

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Amarr suck bawls until you get high SP. Then they can contend. CONTEND.

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