| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lady Noir
   |
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lady Noir on 26/12/2006 14:29:51
For our first invention test, we did 5 hac invention jobs, we have encryption skills at level 5, starship engineering and mechanical engineering at level 5, we have been using the T1 version of the ship.
So we started 5 HAC invention jobs, using one of each decryptor type, three jobs failed, the other two worked but resulted in only 1 run copies of the hac bpc.
We just finished 8 more invention jobs, this time we used assault frigates. For the first 4 we used the decryptor which gives the best possible chance at success of an invention job. For the last 4 jobs we used the decryptor type that claims to multiply the runs of the output T2 bpc "greatly"
The first 4 jobs all failed, nice waste of time and effort there, those were using the supposedly "increases probability of a successful invention job to the best possible chance" decryptors. Best chance of success? They ALL failed!
Out of the final 4 jobs, 3 failed, 1 succeeded, we got a -8 me -3 pe 1 run bpc of an assault frigate. WTF? This was using the decryptor that supposedly multiplies the runs of the output bpc "greatly".
Overall, 7 out of 8 jobs failed. We got a 1 run bpc out of the one that succeeded, and that was using a decryptor that supposedly multiplies the number of runs of the T2 bpc greatly, yeah right to that. What a complete and utter waste of time, lucky we tested using assualt frigates this time and not HAC's huh?
We will continue to do testing but results take time as invention jobs take time to complete, don't expect anything groundbreaking tbh. CCP mesed up with invention, BIG TIME!
|
Kirjava
Caldari
Storm Thesis
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:33:00 -
[2]
/Sighned
A devblog or reply would be appreciated Devs, I havent heard even rumour that a dev has acknowleged this issue.
Storm Thesis
CEO |
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:33:00 -
[3]
I think its by design. If you could easily invent something, the market would be flooded with new ships, removing any profit margin the sellers have today. So they probably intentionally made it quite difficult to make sure that successful inventions are rare, in order to not kill the t2 economy completely. At least it sounds logical to me.
I can understand that its not fun though... spending all that time for something chance based, and then failing at it with no option to get time/stuff back.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Lady Noir
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:36:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think its by design. If you could easily invent something, the market would be flooded with new ships, removing any profit margin the sellers have today. So they probably intentionally made it quite difficult to make sure that successful inventions are rare, in order to not kill the t2 economy completely. At least it sounds logical to me.
I can understand that its not fun though... spending all that time for something chance based, and then failing at it with no option to get time/stuff back.
If it is by design to fail 7 out of 8 times with invention then they should just remove invention now and free up some server load, as it currently stands nobody is going to invent anything.
|
Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:38:00 -
[5]
what was wrong with your first thread?
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:40:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/12/2006 14:40:22
Originally by: Lady Noir
If it is by design to fail 7 out of 8 times with invention then they should just remove invention now and free up some server load, as it currently stands nobody is going to invent anything.
Why not? Lets say it works in 1 out of 10 times. The chance of success is low, but once you successfully get that cerberus bpc, you earn about 200 mill iskies by building and selling a cerberus on the market.
Since its chance based (no player skill involved), they basicly have to make it work this way to not overflow the market... right? I mean, if it was easy, everyone would do it, and prices would drop to build cost just like with t1 equipment. At least that seems likely to me, but im not a market expert... far from it.
Originally by: Hakera
what was wrong with your first thread?
For some reason, new threads are easier to start following than catching up with old ones... its a laziness thing. 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Tharrn
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:40:00 -
[7]
There's quite a lot of T2 BPOs about that have a 'normal' profit margin that would not be affected by invention as the BPCs are so ineffective (including ships) and personally I don't think that it would be a terribly bad thing if the HAC monopoly would be broken and some competition introduced.
Now recruiting!
|
Kirjava
Caldari
Storm Thesis
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lady Noir
If it is by design to fail 7 out of 8 times with invention then they should just remove invention now and free up some server load, as it currently stands nobody is going to invent anything.
She has a point, what realy is the point in invention where one can mine more in high ends and buy the equip for a fraction of the price if you were to invent it yourself?
It should be cheaper to build it yourself than to buy off market, like with most equip.
Storm Thesis
CEO |
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:43:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/12/2006 14:45:02
Originally by: Tharrn
There's quite a lot of T2 BPOs about that have a 'normal' profit margin that would not be affected by invention as the BPCs are so ineffective (including ships) and personally I don't think that it would be a terribly bad thing if the HAC monopoly would be broken and some competition introduced.
I agree, but they dont want to overdo it... they dont want the 250 mill vagas to cost 20 mill one month from now, then they might as well remove the lottery and just say "now t2 is baseline" (I know they said they wanted it in a blog before, but it doesnt seem they really want that after all). And if sellers could only get 20 mill for a vaga, why would they bother inventing it?
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Tharrn
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:45:00 -
[10]
Because it is convenient to produce your own stuff if you don't want to be forced to go to the hubs to buy ships for example.
Personally I'd go for stuff like sensor boosters and EANMs if we *could* invent at all. Doe anyone have data regarding non-ship invention yet?
Now recruiting!
|
Lady Noir
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:47:00 -
[11]
Jim, i really don't have the patience to deal with someone as clueless about invention as you right now, you obviously don't know anything, otherwise you would know that 10 HAC invention jobs chew up 10 T1 cruisers, 10 t1 bpcs, 160 datacores, 10 decryptors, 10 factory rentals, not to mention all the hastle and cost involved in gathering all tht stuff together, do you know how many research points 160 datacores is? It's 120,000 starship RP, and 40,000 mechanical engineering RP. All that for a 1 crappy 1 run hac bpc?
|
Tharrn
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:49:00 -
[12]
But datacores are free you said!
Now recruiting!
|
Lady Noir
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tharrn
But datacores are free you said!
Yes, well done, they are free, but 160 datacores takes a long time to get. A very long time.
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lady Noir
Jim, i really don't have the patience to deal with someone as clueless about invention as you right now, you obviously don't know anything, otherwise you would know that 10 HAC invention jobs chew up 10 T1 cruisers, 10 t1 bpcs, 160 datacores, 10 decryptors, 10 factory rentals, not to mention all the hastle and cost involved in gathering all tht stuff together, do you know how many research points 160 datacores is? It's 120,000 starship RP, and 40,000 mechanical engineering RP. All that for a 1 crappy 1 run hac bpc?
I told you, im no expert. If you post this in General Discussion you are going to get some posts from people who dont know as much as you do about something. Which will force you to make a good point. What did you expect, a list of people typing /signed? 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Kaden Seer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:57:00 -
[15]
/signed
|
Tharrn
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:57:00 -
[16]
I suppose all puns aside we all agree that invention (and the way to get there!) are currently an ISK sink without any sensible returns.
Now recruiting!
|
Xaildaine
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:57:00 -
[17]
/signed
|
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lady Noir
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think its by design. If you could easily invent something, the market would be flooded with new ships, removing any profit margin the sellers have today. So they probably intentionally made it quite difficult to make sure that successful inventions are rare, in order to not kill the t2 economy completely. At least it sounds logical to me.
I can understand that its not fun though... spending all that time for something chance based, and then failing at it with no option to get time/stuff back.
If it is by design to fail 7 out of 8 times with invention then they should just remove invention now and free up some server load, as it currently stands nobody is going to invent anything.
i believe i foretold that this would be the result when the devs said it would "greatly" improve T2 prices and availability.
it wont even hold up to regular 0.0 ratting in time vs cash value.
its worthless.
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
Valekrin Ziemisra
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:00:00 -
[19]
120.000 starship and 40.000 mech eng. To get an idea of how long a lev4 agent takes to get that amount, could you see how many p/day your getting?
Its gotta be more then 6 months or something.
|
Jameroz
Independent Frontiers
Chorus of Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:00:00 -
[20]
I'd so much prefer if it wasn't chance based or if you could somehow maximize the chance to 100% (Level 5 skill & chance inreasing decrypter perhaps?).
Especially when we don't see the chance it's really hard for people to prize datacores at reasonable rate. They take quite long time to get from research npcs and seems the professions are better way to get them.
I would like to see my research agent making me atleast million a day.
But I guess if the chances are so bad the prices of datacores will be dropping.
Independent Frontiers is recruiting |
Tharrn
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tharrn on 26/12/2006 15:11:30
Originally by: Valekrin Ziemisra
120.000 starship and 40.000 mech eng. To get an idea of how long a lev4 agent takes to get that amount, could you see how many p/day your getting?
Its gotta be more then 6 months or something.
About 250-300 (round numbers make the calculation easier :P ) so 400+ days. Over a year. If you do it passively.
Edit: for Starship Engineering.
Now recruiting!
|
Xorena Blastaphart
Caldari
Signum Malus
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:21:00 -
[22]
Duh ... what did you expect, I've said since the day they published how Invention would work that the whole concept was borked..
The Dev came up with this idiotic scheme should have his (chest)NUTZ roasted over an open fire ..
Perhaps they'll fix it so it will actually be economically feasible for the players, new and old. But as it stands you may as well ignore it ..
Lets not mention the continuation of the T2 lottery .. which was screwed up then and remains screwed up and yet, rather than fix it, they've merely reseeded and continued with the same old BS.
All this for a mere $14.95/month
Enjoy!
|
Xaildaine
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:22:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Xaildaine on 26/12/2006 15:23:55
Invention is here to do 3 things... none of which is "fix the T2 market" or " "Open T2 production to smaller corps" it seems.
as far as i can tell the 3 are these
1 - its there as an RP sink for people to stupid to realise they are giving up a chance at a BPO
2 - Its the first step to T3
3 - Its there to give CCP the ability to say "But anyone can make T2 gear so there is no T2 manopoly".. basicly shut the T2 debate Down that has been rageing on these forums since the Lotto began.
realy its a huge disapointment
Worse still is the fact that it seems that CCP are quite happy with it as is.. A blog from them would go a long way imo
|
Doomed Predator
The Phoenix Rising
Distant Star Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:24:00 -
[24]
I think invention was pre-nerfed like rigs.
---------------------------------------------
The first mod to edit my sig gets a keg of beer(2 pink kegs if its done by a female)
I don't like beer  - Serathu
Sera often mods in a dress, does that mean I can have his 2 kegs? - Cortes
|
James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:34:00 -
[25]
CCP has a habit of releasing new features pre-nerfed. It's probably a design philosophy and it does have certain merits. Makes for some frustrating gameplay though.
-----
|
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tharrn
Because it is convenient to produce your own stuff if you don't want to be forced to go to the hubs to buy ships for example.
Personally I'd go for stuff like sensor boosters and EANMs if we *could* invent at all. Doe anyone have data regarding non-ship invention yet?
It seems you only get 1-run Bpcs out of invention right now, and modules apparently require at least 2 datacores. Even if your chances of succFs were 100%, the datacore cost alone would make it not worth it...
------------------------------------------
Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Tharrn
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:37:00 -
[27]
Absolutely right - I just tried to explain why people would still want to invent even if the resulting product would be *reasonably* more expensive than the market :)
Now recruiting!
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Kurai Komichi
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:10:00 -
[28]
I'd rather see less T2 equipment on the field in general.
Everyone and anyone flies around in T2 this and T2 that. What are the elites supposed to fly in?
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Chenlab
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:36:00 -
[29]
Laaaawl, i had 8 attempts but only got 1 bpc, maybe u should be greatful for that? maybe u should just give up eve all together?
|
xeom
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:52:00 -
[30]
I sorta wana see invention stay broken just to **** off lady noir.Sence she was spouting all the crap about making billions and invention is just fine.
---
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |