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Pilot only appears in local if he/she speaks?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:34:00 - [31] "I guess from another point of view that comment sounded a little stupid and innapropriate. I have to admit it sounded a lot better in my head than it does now. Sorry about that." It's all cool, it's just that small possibility it could actually be serious was waaay too scary and had to make sure just to not freak out. ^^;; thank you for explanation and sorry about it, too ^^;
Diablique The Forsakened Few	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:35:00 - [32] ROFL, Jiekon hit for 450 points of logic. Jiekon spins out of control and pops out at the nearest cloneing facility. WTF Pownage.
Rman	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Dragunov Considering that your ship is always in constant contact with huge galaxy wide databases (market, corp info, etc) it seems reasonable to me that your presence in a solar system can always be deduced from your data stream, even if other ships can't pinpoint your location. Hiding yourself from Local would need to require cutting yourself off from all that information or it wouldn't make sense. Interesting way to imply 'eve lore' to explain it. But then any competent ship builder would also provide the option to disconnect thier ship from the public data steams. So if you talked in local or used the market then you would reveal yourself in the system. A trade off im sure most pilots would gladly take. Imagine all those pilots rife with that new clone smell approaching the ship builder they bought thier ride from saying, "This time could you please build me a ship that does not broadcast my presence to every hostile pilot in the system??"
Siakel	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:38:00 - [34] Because the people NPCing/Mining/Whatever have to scan constantly or die, while the attackers only have to scan a few times to find the targets, and don't suffer any real penalty for not hitting the 'Scan' button every three seconds, I'd think. Also makes it nearly impossible to defend your space(Because it isn't hard enough now...).
General Xerxes GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:46:00 - [35] Originally by: Rman Originally by: Dragunov Considering that your ship is always in constant contact with huge galaxy wide databases (market, corp info, etc) it seems reasonable to me that your presence in a solar system can always be deduced from your data stream, even if other ships can't pinpoint your location. Hiding yourself from Local would need to require cutting yourself off from all that information or it wouldn't make sense. Interesting way to imply 'eve lore' to explain it. But then any competent ship builder would also provide the option to disconnect thier ship from the public data steams. So if you talked in local or used the market then you would reveal yourself in the system. A trade off im sure most pilots would gladly take. Imagine all those pilots rife with that new clone smell approaching the ship builder they bought thier ride from saying, "This time could you please build me a ship that does not broadcast my presence to every hostile pilot in the system??" But wouldn't that mean giving up all chat channels aswell? Not sure if that'd be as popular. ----- Drone Fanatic Sig Coming soon...maybe...
Rman	Posted - 2006.12.26 22:02:00 - [36] Originally by: General Xerxes Originally by: Rman Originally by: Dragunov Considering that your ship is always in constant contact with huge galaxy wide databases (market, corp info, etc) it seems reasonable to me that your presence in a solar system can always be deduced from your data stream, even if other ships can't pinpoint your location. Hiding yourself from Local would need to require cutting yourself off from all that information or it wouldn't make sense. Interesting way to imply 'eve lore' to explain it. But then any competent ship builder would also provide the option to disconnect thier ship from the public data steams. So if you talked in local or used the market then you would reveal yourself in the system. A trade off im sure most pilots would gladly take. Imagine all those pilots rife with that new clone smell approaching the ship builder they bought thier ride from saying, "This time could you please build me a ship that does not broadcast my presence to every hostile pilot in the system??" But wouldn't that mean giving up all chat channels aswell? Not sure if that'd be as popular. In the military they implements procedures like "radio silence" to sneak up on the enemy. I realize eve is a game so we can take some artistic liberties and make some expections for the sake of peoples enjoyment, but if eve is to be a simulation of life in space then yeah, no talking at all unless you want everyone to know you are there :) Or at the very least your transmissions could reveal that something is there but that is all it would reveal. It would not broadcast exactly who you are like it does now. Anyway I am just playing devils advocate here. I am not trying to lobby for 'no-local'. My intention with the original post was just to find out why is the way it is, and that was answered already.
Duntov Kray Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.26 23:44:00 - [37] As far as immersion goes... I thought I read somewhere that when you jump into a system the stargate records your passage and broadcasts the info to a "local" channel. Does anyone else remember reading this?
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.27 00:34:00 - [38] The whole immersion thing is just a BS excuse. It's science-FICTION for a reason. You can make up a huge number of reasons for and against local under the auspices of immersion. It'd be pretty funny (aka screwed up) if instead of scan alts CCP mandated locator agent alts for when you are chasing someone through 0.0 with NO stations, let alone no locator agents.
Crandall Six Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.27 01:19:00 - [39] This is a tough one and there are reasons both for, and against changing the current system. I would be interested in discussing the idea that in empire local is always around, but in 0.0 it only applies to systems where you have sovereignty. No sov, no local. I think CCP would need to do some changes about how sov is handled but with the constellation sovereignty this might be more doable. I suppose coding this could be a real bastard though. Keep in mind, I'm saying that only the people and those set to + have local in systems where they have friendly sov, and hostiles will not. This would give a real tactical advantage to those taking the time and effort to actually claim space, and would make attackers actually put forth some effort to go gank someone.
sesanti Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.27 02:09:00 - [40] Take out local, and let the carebears cry. whine and threaten to stop breathing like spoiled kids until they turn so blue they look like a smurf! But seriously, a change like this would encourage team play and give a better sense of immersion to the game. _______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster - <I am a guy... don't mind the portrait>
Theonlystd Caldari Fly-By-Night Enterprises Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2006.12.27 02:42:00 - [41] immersion arguement doesnt fly towel imho. You can get Data about number of jumps,ships destroyed,nps destroyed ect ect for any system for the game. But its To much to assume that gates don't somehow identify ships going threw them.. ------------------------------------------- Aye Spellcheck is beyond me along with propper grammer.
Malibu Stacey Gallente Playboy Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.27 02:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Theonlystd immersion arguement doesnt fly towel imho. You can get Data about number of jumps,ships destroyed,nps destroyed ect ect for any system for the game. But its To much to assume that gates don't somehow identify ships going threw them.. there's a big difference between shipCount++ and getShipInformation() --- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Dr Ming Mindworks	Posted - 2006.12.27 03:02:00 - [43] 1) If your saying that it would hurt priates because they would be forced to blindly fly belt to belt without local to provide them info on what they are up agiant... Just plain lol. Learn2Scan. Arguing that your ignorant gameplay will be even more ineffective under a new system is an argument with no weight. Not showing up in local helps pirates, as they don't instantly get their bio read the second they come into local giving the miner a chance to warp to their safe and log out. Right now, the -only- miners that a pirate can catch are either monumentally retarded or the ones that went AFK. 2) As for miners being forced to 'scan all the time'. WTF else is occupying your time when your mining? FFS, your just sitting there transfering ore every 1-3 minutes. You've got PLENTY of time to scan. If you want to be lazy and sit there and watch TV while you play EVE and rely on watching local and warping + logging the second someone enters the system, then the game mechanics that lets you do that ought to be changed. Because your not playing the game. 3) Yea, it would make territory a little harder to police. Simply because intruders that laid low, would go undetected unless someone was actively scanning for ships. Which is how it should be. Would it be harder to track people attacking you? A little. If you have a good intel channel, and people actively scan systems looking for them, then you should be able to hunt them down. But without local, you actually have a better chance of catching them since they won't fricking know for a 100% fact if the defenders have found them, and have a gang warping in on top of them until the last second. Especially if a Covert Ops caught them, or they warped ontop of a cloaked interdictor waiting at a gate to spring an ambush. None of this 'lol I see you guys in local, we are going to run or log now since we know the odds are not in our favor'.
Trak Cranker Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.27 03:06:00 - [44] Really, think the implications all the way through. It would empower those looking for ganks WAY more than the ones trying to work and live in a system. Its tough enough as it is with a cloaked non friendly in system. Imagine that you could hide a fleet of any size at a deep safe and and have a cloaker roam belts for targets - and same targets having no idea that anyone was there. I work both sides from time to time and right now I'd say the benefits are quite balanced. There are pros and cons to both parties in a given situation. But the suggested change would tip the scale completely to one side. It would make residency a living hell and gypsy roaming an insane smorgasbord. On another note: The reasoning behind it is that the gates relay the information. Not you initiating data streams and what have you. Not that it prevents any changes. Thats just the current reasoning.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.27 03:07:00 - [45] Originally by: Jiekon Originally by: Promon Delnai Who talks in local anyway? Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented? bad idea. About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text What locator agents let you search for an allaince?
Mesacc Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.27 04:28:00 - [46] Im all for removing local. True you may not be able to see an enemy comming, but that enemy cant see you either. No one ever talks on local anyway, unless your in Jita or Oursulaert. Make everything below .8 have regional chat only.
Dr Ming Mindworks	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:08:00 - [47] Originally by: Trak Cranker Edited by: Trak Cranker on 27/12/2006 03:08:45 Really, think the implications all the way through. Think the current system all the way through. Sitting there and watching local and logging is pure EZmode-Delux. The ONLY way under the current system to catch anyone but a total retard is by leaving a character logged in and cloaked for hours or days. Think about that for a minute. About how mindblowingly extreme of a measure that people have to stoop to inorder to even have a chance at killing someone who is putting their neck on the line by soloing in what is supposed to be dangerous space. This is a PvP game, if your not getting your ships blown up (regardless if your the ganker or gankee) on a semi-regular basis, something is amiss. Your supposed to get killed. Your mining barge isn't supposed to be a semi-permanate investment, it is supposed to be a bit of a challenge for you to clear a decent profit on it before you lose it. By removing local, it can add the unknown to the mix. When things are not cut and dry captian obvious style, people can't only fight when they know for a 100% fact that they are going to win. There is too much running in this game because local makes everything 100% transparent to everyone.
Dotar Sojat Reality Check	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:26:00 - [48] I find it pretty pathetic that a meaningless thread on this "dead horse" issue would get 3, count'em 3 Dev responses but threads like Invention test results - OMG! - Devs should read. get absolutely no response...
Barasu Minmatar Crimson Wings Squadron Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:27:00 - [49] Edited by: Barasu on 27/12/2006 05:28:48 As a newish pilot I would quite eve if they removed local and didn't have a way of informing me of what was going on in system. To remove local means I would loose a tool that allows me to know whats going on in my surroundings and allows me to interact with allies. I would quite eve if they removed local because I would not want to keep buying ship after ship from getting blown up ratting. I also at that point would get really **ed off at stupid developers and just go back to WoW where I can at least see the enemies name on top of their head. Only people who really want it are pirates who will only gank people because they can't be seen comming anymore. Whats more disgusting then death? Not Trying!**
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:33:00 - [50] Total nerf will probably never happen, but how about something like... Instant local count, but local memberlist is delayed 1-2 minutes. Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Fto Cruise -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The answer could be to remove the local chat channel, or for a pilot to only appear if he speaks as in alliance chat, if the channel gets over a certain size, wouldn't this greatly reduce server strain in nodes such as jita - where real time info was being broadcased to 500 people at once?? I want a compromise, I usualy don't check local in crowded systems, and frankly, if you enter a war or somewhat, it's usualy a good idea to avoid heavy nodes anyway, however, when theres less than 50 in a system, the current system is perfect. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2006.12.27 06:42:00 - [52] Ok im sort of stuck on this issue based upon the area I operate in. I have to keep an eye on local for the gangs that jump through tasti from time to time as I am near 3 0.0 entry points. Pros of Removing Local: 1. Finally possible to catch a miner that isn't a tard 2. No more oh shi- look at his sec status I better dock 3. it neutralizes the insta dock effect ccp gave us in kali whenever a pirate shows up 4. Surprise attacks easier 5. Increase emphasis on joining player corps so you can keep an eye on each other while out doing "your thing" Cons of Removing Local 1. The unknown is the most terrifying of all variables 2. Kill fast or get blobbed (applies to the now but would be even more important to fit gank fittings to kill people) 3. Solo Piracy without a recon will be taboo 4. Increase use of cov ops scouts that will never be found due to our in ability to probe them (I hate these guys) Sig Nerf - Cortes I declare war on ISD! You don't stand a chance -Karl
Senti Kai	Posted - 2006.12.27 06:55:00 - [53] Just to thrown in my 2cents, if the local list is removed (like it should :p) make sure it's not just a client side hack because someone will make a 3rd party program pretty fast.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.27 06:56:00 - [54] Originally by: Rman Originally by: Roy Batty68 IIRC Oveur said something not that long ago along the lines of "local shouldn't be the tactical tool that it is today". Ah ha! This is the kind of comments I am looking for! Thanks! If you have a link to Oveurs post regarding this please free free to post it for me. I would like to see more on what the devs had to say. Rman Grab the Vegas gathering DevChat from eve-nn.com. But that's 9 months old news, dso basically useless now. Did you see all the new info the chats are giving away now? I don't think that removing of the chat as a tool for intel will happen any time soon because it basically kills off mining and ratting in LowSec and NulSec unless you're in Alliance-protected territory. Or how'd you mine for hours on end when you have to scan (-1 miner and loads of scan probes!) every 30 seconds or more often if you want to have any chance to avoid getting ganked. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Ephemeron The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.27 07:17:00 - [55] Making local chat show character identity only when that character speaks would be a good change for me personally. It would benefit me as solo fighter against large numbers of enemies. Right now, if I, as solo fighter, jump into a system full of hostiles, they immidiately take notice and prepare an overwhelming force against me. If they didn't know that I just entered their system, I could have a chance, a bigger chance, to catch one or two of them unprepared before they setup a gank squad to counter me. I can see how such changes to local would hurt the interest of non-pvpers and fleet oriented pvpers. It would make territory control harder for alliance leaders. Nevertheless, I think that such a change to local is a step in right direction provided that new automated intelligence sharing tools are provided. These kind of tools: ) When you see a player ship in your overview, the ship's pilot name automatically gets added to local chate. That person was scouted, so gathered information should be properly displayed. ) You have option to share your intelligence with corp mates, alliance mates, gang members, and friendlies. Once someone in your gang has discovered a new person in local, all gang members should see that person in local. ) Need a graphical feature that would signify age of the information. There needs to be a way to tell how recent the information you are getting is. It's possible that someone in your gang seen a new person in local, but if nobody seen him again for 5, 10, 30 minutes, the information becomes less valid. That person could have moved to different system or logged. ) A smart local intelligence feature that knows that if your gang member seen Player1 in system A just now, then all other gang members in system B can't have Player1 show in local, in case he was previously spotted there but not seen leaving the system. Stuff like that.
Ephemeron The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.27 07:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Tachy Did you see all the new info the chats are giving away now? I don't think that removing of the chat as a tool for intel will happen any time soon because it basically kills off mining and ratting in LowSec and NulSec unless you're in Alliance-protected territory. Or how'd you mine for hours on end when you have to scan (-1 miner and loads of scan probes!) every 30 seconds or more often if you want to have any chance to avoid getting ganked. Actually, that change to local wouldn't make rat hunting or mining in low sec impossible. It would make macro-NPCing and macro-mining impossible. But requiring a player to be at the computer to check scanner now and then and watch for signs on overview is not that bad. You can still cloak instantly when some bad guy warps in on you. You can still use 1 WCS without it gimping your NPC setup too much. You can still insta-warp to ss when you are aligned. And, god forbid - fight back. Yes, the change in local would remove something from near-invulnerability of smart NPCers and miners. You will lose ships. You will die now and then. But you will still make way more money than the ship losses.
Vidar Kentoran Minmatar Provenance.	Posted - 2006.12.27 08:00:00 - [57] Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 27/12/2006 08:06:41 Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 27/12/2006 08:03:19 Quote: it is supposed to be a bit of a challenge for you to clear a decent profit on it before you lose it. Oh, I see. So Mining profit is way out of hand, and what we ACTUALLY want is to shift the vast majority of miners to the New Regions in their combat alts where they can "mine" while in a ship that can defend itself well, and "mine" by moving around constantly instead of sitting in one spot like a perfect target. Wait... Seriously, do people think about comments for 5 seconds? Sorry, but no, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make it "a decent challenge" to make a profit in a bloody mining barge(lol? I guess hulks are supposed to be a guaranteed loss investment, since it only costs you over 20 times as much to lose one of those, but they are nowhere near 20 times harder to kill). If you make it HARDER to mine without getting killed, some very very simple consequences happen: People shift away from mining to safer isk-generating methods, because "profit" is a question of time input and isk gained. OK, so now you say, "well generating isk should be much harder, lets nerf all methods of generating isk so that we can nerf miners without shifting them away!!" Well, guess what happens now? Oh wait, that's RIGHT, high-end mineral prices rebound and then START TO SKYROCKET, making all ships more expensive and ****ing off pretty much everyone in the game as you have to spend more hours isk generating to play the other parts of the game, wars become more expensive, and thus rarer, ganking becomes more common and actual fights become less common. Gratz? How does that make the game more fun? (Do note, I'm not saying removing local would necessarily cause all this, but the motive of destroying mining safety to the point that you are at a decent risk of not making the cost of your mining barge back is so totally absurd that I really had to question that statement itself)
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.27 08:04:00 - [58] Nah, I only have 1 million skill points so I don't like this. I want to be able to see everyone in local, I don't care how fun it is for you to get right on top of me and warp scramble me in 5 seconds. The origional "hate monger"
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.27 08:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Tachy Did you see all the new info the chats are giving away now? I don't think that removing of the chat as a tool for intel will happen any time soon because it basically kills off mining and ratting in LowSec and NulSec unless you're in Alliance-protected territory. Or how'd you mine for hours on end when you have to scan (-1 miner and loads of scan probes!) every 30 seconds or more often if you want to have any chance to avoid getting ganked. Actually, that change to local wouldn't make rat hunting or mining in low sec impossible. It would make macro-NPCing and macro-mining impossible. But requiring a player to be at the computer to check scanner now and then and watch for signs on overview is not that bad. You can still cloak instantly when some bad guy warps in on you. You can still use 1 WCS without it gimping your NPC setup too much. You can still insta-warp to ss when you are aligned. And, god forbid - fight back. Yes, the change in local would remove something from near-invulnerability of smart NPCers and miners. You will lose ships. You will die now and then. But you will still make way more money than the ship losses. Cloaking is impossible when you're mining. Remember you need a cloak in a high slot, and nothing within 2.5km - not even a jetcan. Cloaking doesn't work when you're ratting because you're already locked. (So we're down 2 highslots - scanner and cloak - in your theory without any change for the miner/ratter.) When you see someone in the overview with your barge, you're already in the wrong place. How long can you vex your overview constantly (10-15 minutes ...) and how do you see the CovOps or Recon that builds the undetectable warpin anchor for the rest of the group or the gankfitted alt? How long does it take to bump a ship out of alignment? Look at the time it takes to accelerate good enough to enter warp. WCS are useless for mining and ratting. A single WCS wont save your ship and you already knew that. Multiple WCS will disable your ship for anything but travelling. 5km lock range does not cut it for mining. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
DaHeaVYFo Gallente Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.12.27 09:15:00 - [60] I'm not going to scan for every ship in a system, to find they're at a POS or in a safe, and that there's no one in the system, waste of time. Nah, leave local where it is.

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