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Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rman on 26/12/2006 19:12:24
 Originally by: Fto Cruise
The answer could be to remove the local chat channel, or for a pilot to only appear if he speaks.
This is from another thread but I like this idea. Anyone know why something like this has not been done already?
Thanks,
Rman
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Anatolius
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:29:00 -
[2]
Because it'd allow people to do things like stage surprise attacks against people who are too lazy to use the map/scanner/local intelligence networks/et cetera.
I think everyone can agree that such terrible things as surprise attacks would totally ruin EVE and all that.
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rman
Originally by: Fto Cruise
The answer could be to remove the local chat channel, or for a pilot to only appear if he speaks. Quote:
I like this idea. Anyone know why something like this has not been done already?
Well it seems my good man that without local a solo pirate would never know what he's up against also local provides valuable information such as a random jump in local either means 2 things 1. Ganksquad or 2. hauler escort 
Sig Nerf - Cortes
I declare war on ISD!
You don't stand a chance  -Karl
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Promon Delnai
Scorn.
Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:32:00 -
[4]
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text 
___________________________
~Jiekon
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Zebler
Four Horsemen
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Rman
Edited by: Rman on 26/12/2006 19:12:24
Originally by: Fto Cruise
The answer could be to remove the local chat channel, or for a pilot to only appear if he speaks.
This is from another thread but I like this idea. Anyone know why something like this has not been done already?
Thanks,
Rman
Old idea, debated endlessly in other threads.
Please see other threads 
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Redart
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:42:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Redart on 26/12/2006 19:42:53
/signed * 100
Local really takes alot of the immersion out of the game.
^Click the Sig
GorgeousGamers.com |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:45:00 -
[8]
I would be afraid without local though... like being in a dark room just waiting for someone to stab you in the back... 
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I would be afraid without local though... like being in a dark room just waiting for someone to stab you in the back...
<hides knife behind his back> <whistles>
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~Jiekon
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Karjala Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
Yes, this sounds like a good solution. Especially if I'm combating a ~1500 to ~4000 member alliance and I want to know now where they all are. /givemoney 9999999999 kthxbye.
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Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:53:00 -
[11]
I swear, every two days.....
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2006.12.26 19:54:00 -
[12]
if you place as many hidden (exploration probes ftw :D) belts in each systhem as you have shown belts I'm all ok for it.
if you have to scan for pirates&enemies I want THEM to scan and probe for the miners too.
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Majutsu
Caldari
S.Y.N.D
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:00:00 -
[13]
I'm all for it.
Simply from an immersion point of view, this magical channel where everyone can be seen does take away from the gameplay a little for me.
Caldari Gunboat Pilot
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:01:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 26/12/2006 20:02:23
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
That would make recon ship extremely good at killing npc hunters and miners. 0.0 warfare would be a lot more about deep strikes of singletons/small squads than fleet battles, and in the end, there would be relatively few pvper-vs-pvper encounters, and a lot more ganks everywhere. Would that be a good thing?
Not to mention the difficulty alliances would have patrolling their space.
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Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Snarls McGee
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:01:00 -
[15]
Prat jumps in with no localchat display and he already knows all he has to do is warp around to each belt to try to catch a miner or someone ratting.
Miner/Ratter jumps into a system and heads to a belt and without localchat display has no way of knowing if 1 or 100 hostiles shows up at any given time.
One side gets it super easy while the other side, already busy with something, would have to scan, scan, scan, scan again?
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We've all heard that a million monkeys typing will eventually create something intelligent. Thanks to message forums we know that isn't true. |
Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:04:00 -
[16]
I just had an idea. Deployable light sentry turrets that can only be deployed by industrial ships. Would give some added protection to large mining ops. Give them a range of say 50km and only do half the damage of regular sentries, so you still need to have op security, the light sentries would just be an augmentation. And the only function while a member of the corp that dropped the sentry is within 100km of the turret, and self-destruct after being left alone for 30 minutes, to prevent people from using them to spam gates and outposts with.
Actually, now that I think about it, isn't something sort of like this coming with faction warfare?
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Melissa Lodestar
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:05:00 -
[17]
CCP seems big on people "finding" content these days...  |
Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:06:00 -
[18]
A double edged proposal to be sure.
It would make it easier to catch someone without them getting the heads up that local currently provides.
It would make it very possible to spend HOURS searching for a target and never finding one as you warp from system to system having to scan the belts just to see if someone was there.
IIRC Oveur said something not that long ago along the lines of "local shouldn't be the tactical tool that it is today". Which implies, to me at least, that they are trying to think of something. I'd be willing to bet though that they realize that a nerf to local by itself would just further relagate nearly all pvp to gates so it's likely a change that will have to come in conjunction with something else. And it's that "something else" which hasn't been fully fleshed out yet.
Plus there's the whole sovereignty thing... People wanting to protect their space and not ever really knowing if there was an enemy in your system or not without constant gate camping and/or system probing would kind of suck.
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bastogne
I just had an idea. Deployable light sentry turrets that can only be deployed by industrial ships. Would give some added protection to large mining ops. Give them a range of say 50km and only do half the damage of regular sentries, so you still need to have op security, the light sentries would just be an augmentation. And the only function while a member of the corp that dropped the sentry is within 100km of the turret, and self-destruct after being left alone for 30 minutes, to prevent people from using them to spam gates and outposts with.
Actually, now that I think about it, isn't something sort of like this coming with faction warfare?
...nuff said?
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Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it. |
j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:21:00 -
[20]
"About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text "
For the sake of all that's holy; please tell me this was just random exercise in being trolling smartass for the sake of it, rather than complete misunderstanding of issue you were addressing. Because possibility of the latter coming from dev team is simply too scary to make the former even remotely funny :/
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Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:22:00 -
[21]
I have read the responces so far and for the most part they are all good responses.
I agree with one poster that it takes away from the game experience by having a magical channel that broadcasts everyone presence when they enter a system. I have always envisioned eve as a simulation of 'life in space'. It seems to me that if I were traveling in space the last thing I would want to do it broadcast my presence in every dangerous system I enter. But that is a different topic altogether.
What I'm really wondering is if showing all players in a system in local was put in place by design and if CCP had a specific tactical gameplay balancing reasons for doing so... or if prehaps it was something that CCP put in place early on solely as a casual social feature to have availiable while playing and not meant to also provide free and instant intel.
I hope that gives the gist of what I am trying to get at. Thanks for the replies so far :)
Rman
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j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:25:00 -
[22]
"What I'm really wondering is if showing all players in a system in local was put in place by design and if CCP had a specific tactical gameplay balancing reasons for doing so... or if prehaps it was something that CCP put in place early on solely as a casual social feature to have availiable while playing and not meant to also provide free and instant intel."
From the earlier threads and the dev comments in them, it's more of side-effect that wasn't considered very close when the system was put together, than anything else.
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Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
IIRC Oveur said something not that long ago along the lines of "local shouldn't be the tactical tool that it is today".
Ah ha! This is the kind of comments I am looking for! Thanks!
If you have a link to Oveurs post regarding this please free free to post it for me. I would like to see more on what the devs had to say.
Rman
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Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: j0sephine
"What I'm really wondering is if showing all players in a system in local was put in place by design and if CCP had a specific tactical gameplay balancing reasons for doing so... or if prehaps it was something that CCP put in place early on solely as a casual social feature to have availiable while playing and not meant to also provide free and instant intel."
From the earlier threads and the dev comments in them, it's more of side-effect that wasn't considered very close when the system was put together, than anything else.
Yeah, I was in the middle of composing my reply when that was posted. I type to slow I guess :)
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Dragunov
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:36:00 -
[25]
Considering that your ship is always in constant contact with huge galaxy wide databases (market, corp info, etc) it seems reasonable to me that your presence in a solar system can always be deduced from your data stream, even if other ships can't pinpoint your location.
Hiding yourself from Local would need to require cutting yourself off from all that information or it wouldn't make sense.
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Unvisibility
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:40:00 -
[26]
How about a new type of cloak? Hides you from local, with drawbacks ofc - I like the idea of cutting you off from external data streams when active.
How about you were hidden from local but also couldn't see anyone else in local, cloaked or not?
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Deacon Esk
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:47:00 -
[27]
remove local
miners more apprehensive to mine without knowing who is in system and dont want to risk losing their stuff.
the mining of high end ore will decrease.
prices of minerals will increase.
prices of ships and modules will increase.
people will then be whining that things are too expensive.
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Lance Tyr
Minmatar
Catalyst Reaction
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
You've obviously never been to jita or rens. they don't shut up.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.12.26 21:14:00 -
[29]
I don't see removing local as an unmitigated nerf to gankees. It's more complicated than that.
I'm not really decided on whether Local as it stands brings more bad than good to the game, but an interesting "compromise" would be to only show characters in local when they speak but to still show the local count.
You could have more elaborate mechanisms too. For instance, launching scan probes or aggressing could be treated as broadcasts on Local. There could also be new tools like probes that show who enters a system, and modules that hide ships from the directional scanner or allow somebody to aggress without broadcasting, for instance.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.26 21:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: j0sephine
"About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text "
For the sake of all that's holy; please tell me this was just random exercise in being trolling smartass for the sake of it, rather than complete misunderstanding of issue you were addressing. Because possibility of the latter coming from dev team is simply too scary to make the former even remotely funny :/
I guess from another point of view that comment sounded a little stupid and innapropriate. I have to admit it sounded a lot better in my head than it does now. Sorry about that.
___________________________
~Jiekon
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j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.26 21:34:00 -
[31]
"I guess from another point of view that comment sounded a little stupid and innapropriate. I have to admit it sounded a lot better in my head than it does now. Sorry about that."
It's all cool, it's just that small possibility it could actually be serious was waaay too scary and had to make sure just to not freak out. ^^;; thank you for explanation and sorry about it, too ^^;
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Diablique
The Forsakened Few
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Posted - 2006.12.26 21:35:00 -
[32]
ROFL, Jiekon hit for 450 points of logic.
Jiekon spins out of control and pops out at the nearest cloneing facility.
WTF Pownage.
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Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.26 21:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dragunov
Considering that your ship is always in constant contact with huge galaxy wide databases (market, corp info, etc) it seems reasonable to me that your presence in a solar system can always be deduced from your data stream, even if other ships can't pinpoint your location.
Hiding yourself from Local would need to require cutting yourself off from all that information or it wouldn't make sense.
Interesting way to imply 'eve lore' to explain it. But then any competent ship builder would also provide the option to disconnect thier ship from the public data steams. So if you talked in local or used the market then you would reveal yourself in the system. A trade off im sure most pilots would gladly take.
Imagine all those pilots rife with that new clone smell approaching the ship builder they bought thier ride from saying, "This time could you please build me a ship that does not broadcast my presence to every hostile pilot in the system??"
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.26 21:38:00 -
[34]
Because the people NPCing/Mining/Whatever have to scan constantly or die, while the attackers only have to scan a few times to find the targets, and don't suffer any real penalty for not hitting the 'Scan' button every three seconds, I'd think.
Also makes it nearly impossible to defend your space(Because it isn't hard enough now...).
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General Xerxes
GREY COUNCIL
Breidablik
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Posted - 2006.12.26 21:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rman
Originally by: Dragunov
Considering that your ship is always in constant contact with huge galaxy wide databases (market, corp info, etc) it seems reasonable to me that your presence in a solar system can always be deduced from your data stream, even if other ships can't pinpoint your location.
Hiding yourself from Local would need to require cutting yourself off from all that information or it wouldn't make sense.
Interesting way to imply 'eve lore' to explain it. But then any competent ship builder would also provide the option to disconnect thier ship from the public data steams. So if you talked in local or used the market then you would reveal yourself in the system. A trade off im sure most pilots would gladly take.
Imagine all those pilots rife with that new clone smell approaching the ship builder they bought thier ride from saying, "This time could you please build me a ship that does not broadcast my presence to every hostile pilot in the system??"
But wouldn't that mean giving up all chat channels aswell? Not sure if that'd be as popular.
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Drone Fanatic
Sig Coming soon...maybe... |
Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.26 22:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: General Xerxes
Originally by: Rman
Originally by: Dragunov
Considering that your ship is always in constant contact with huge galaxy wide databases (market, corp info, etc) it seems reasonable to me that your presence in a solar system can always be deduced from your data stream, even if other ships can't pinpoint your location.
Hiding yourself from Local would need to require cutting yourself off from all that information or it wouldn't make sense.
Interesting way to imply 'eve lore' to explain it. But then any competent ship builder would also provide the option to disconnect thier ship from the public data steams. So if you talked in local or used the market then you would reveal yourself in the system. A trade off im sure most pilots would gladly take.
Imagine all those pilots rife with that new clone smell approaching the ship builder they bought thier ride from saying, "This time could you please build me a ship that does not broadcast my presence to every hostile pilot in the system??"
But wouldn't that mean giving up all chat channels aswell? Not sure if that'd be as popular.
In the military they implements procedures like "radio silence" to sneak up on the enemy.
I realize eve is a game so we can take some artistic liberties and make some expections for the sake of peoples enjoyment, but if eve is to be a simulation of life in space then yeah, no talking at all unless you want everyone to know you are there :)
Or at the very least your transmissions could reveal that something is there but that is all it would reveal. It would not broadcast exactly who you are like it does now.
Anyway I am just playing devils advocate here. I am not trying to lobby for 'no-local'. My intention with the original post was just to find out why is the way it is, and that was answered already.
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Duntov Kray
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.26 23:44:00 -
[37]
As far as immersion goes... I thought I read somewhere that when you jump into a system the stargate records your passage and broadcasts the info to a "local" channel. Does anyone else remember reading this?
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.12.27 00:34:00 -
[38]
The whole immersion thing is just a BS excuse. It's science-FICTION for a reason. You can make up a huge number of reasons for and against local under the auspices of immersion.
It'd be pretty funny (aka screwed up) if instead of scan alts CCP mandated locator agent alts for when you are chasing someone through 0.0 with NO stations, let alone no locator agents.
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Crandall Six
Caldari
Black Knight Buccaneers
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.12.27 01:19:00 -
[39]
This is a tough one and there are reasons both for, and against changing the current system.
I would be interested in discussing the idea that in empire local is always around, but in 0.0 it only applies to systems where you have sovereignty. No sov, no local. I think CCP would need to do some changes about how sov is handled but with the constellation sovereignty this might be more doable. I suppose coding this could be a real bastard though.
Keep in mind, I'm saying that only the people and those set to + have local in systems where they have friendly sov, and hostiles will not. This would give a real tactical advantage to those taking the time and effort to actually claim space, and would make attackers actually put forth some effort to go gank someone.
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sesanti
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.27 02:09:00 -
[40]
Take out local, and let the carebears cry. whine and threaten to stop breathing like spoiled kids until they turn so blue they look like a smurf!
But seriously, a change like this would encourage team play and give a better sense of immersion to the game.
_______________________________________________
The ShadowMaster -
<I am a guy... don't mind the portrait> |
Theonlystd
Caldari
Fly-By-Night Enterprises
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.12.27 02:42:00 -
[41]
immersion arguement doesnt fly towel imho.
You can get Data about number of jumps,ships destroyed,nps destroyed ect ect for any system for the game.
But its To much to assume that gates don't somehow identify ships going threw them..
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Aye Spellcheck is beyond me along with propper grammer. |
Malibu Stacey
Gallente
Playboy Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.27 02:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Theonlystd
immersion arguement doesnt fly towel imho.
You can get Data about number of jumps,ships destroyed,nps destroyed ect ect for any system for the game.
But its To much to assume that gates don't somehow identify ships going threw them..
there's a big difference between
shipCount++
and
getShipInformation()
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! |
Dr Ming
Mindworks
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Posted - 2006.12.27 03:02:00 -
[43]
1) If your saying that it would hurt priates because they would be forced to blindly fly belt to belt without local to provide them info on what they are up agiant... Just plain lol. Learn2Scan. Arguing that your ignorant gameplay will be even more ineffective under a new system is an argument with no weight.
Not showing up in local helps pirates, as they don't instantly get their bio read the second they come into local giving the miner a chance to warp to their safe and log out.
Right now, the -only- miners that a pirate can catch are either monumentally retarded or the ones that went AFK.
2) As for miners being forced to 'scan all the time'. WTF else is occupying your time when your mining? FFS, your just sitting there transfering ore every 1-3 minutes. You've got PLENTY of time to scan.
If you want to be lazy and sit there and watch TV while you play EVE and rely on watching local and warping + logging the second someone enters the system, then the game mechanics that lets you do that ought to be changed. Because your not playing the game.
3) Yea, it would make territory a little harder to police. Simply because intruders that laid low, would go undetected unless someone was actively scanning for ships. Which is how it should be.
Would it be harder to track people attacking you? A little. If you have a good intel channel, and people actively scan systems looking for them, then you should be able to hunt them down.
But without local, you actually have a better chance of catching them since they won't fricking know for a 100% fact if the defenders have found them, and have a gang warping in on top of them until the last second. Especially if a Covert Ops caught them, or they warped ontop of a cloaked interdictor waiting at a gate to spring an ambush.
None of this 'lol I see you guys in local, we are going to run or log now since we know the odds are not in our favor'.
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.27 03:06:00 -
[44]
Really, think the implications all the way through.
It would empower those looking for ganks WAY more than the ones trying to work and live in a system. Its tough enough as it is with a cloaked non friendly in system. Imagine that you could hide a fleet of any size at a deep safe and and have a cloaker roam belts for targets - and same targets having no idea that anyone was there.
I work both sides from time to time and right now I'd say the benefits are quite balanced. There are pros and cons to both parties in a given situation. But the suggested change would tip the scale completely to one side. It would make residency a living hell and gypsy roaming an insane smorgasbord.
On another note: The reasoning behind it is that the gates relay the information. Not you initiating data streams and what have you. Not that it prevents any changes. Thats just the current reasoning.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.27 03:07:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
What locator agents let you search for an allaince?
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Mesacc
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.27 04:28:00 -
[46]
Im all for removing local. True you may not be able to see an enemy comming, but that enemy cant see you either. No one ever talks on local anyway, unless your in Jita or Oursulaert. Make everything below .8 have regional chat only.
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Dr Ming
Mindworks
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Posted - 2006.12.27 05:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 27/12/2006 03:08:45
Really, think the implications all the way through.
Think the current system all the way through.
Sitting there and watching local and logging is pure EZmode-Delux.
The ONLY way under the current system to catch anyone but a total retard is by leaving a character logged in and cloaked for hours or days.
Think about that for a minute. About how mindblowingly extreme of a measure that people have to stoop to inorder to even have a chance at killing someone who is putting their neck on the line by soloing in what is supposed to be dangerous space.
This is a PvP game, if your not getting your ships blown up (regardless if your the ganker or gankee) on a semi-regular basis, something is amiss.
Your supposed to get killed. Your mining barge isn't supposed to be a semi-permanate investment, it is supposed to be a bit of a challenge for you to clear a decent profit on it before you lose it.
By removing local, it can add the unknown to the mix. When things are not cut and dry captian obvious style, people can't only fight when they know for a 100% fact that they are going to win. There is too much running in this game because local makes everything 100% transparent to everyone.
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Dotar Sojat
Reality Check
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Posted - 2006.12.27 05:26:00 -
[48]
I find it pretty pathetic that a meaningless thread on this "dead horse" issue would get 3, count'em 3 Dev responses but threads like Invention test results - OMG! - Devs should read. get absolutely no response... |
Barasu
Minmatar
Crimson Wings Squadron
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.12.27 05:27:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Barasu on 27/12/2006 05:28:48
As a newish pilot I would quite eve if they removed local and didn't have a way of informing me of what was going on in system. To remove local means I would loose a tool that allows me to know whats going on in my surroundings and allows me to interact with allies. I would quite eve if they removed local because I would not want to keep buying ship after ship from getting blown up ratting. I also at that point would get really ****ed off at stupid developers and just go back to WoW where I can at least see the enemies name on top of their head.
Only people who really want it are pirates who will only gank people because they can't be seen comming anymore.
Whats more disgusting then death?
Not Trying! |
Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.12.27 05:33:00 -
[50]
Total nerf will probably never happen, but how about something like...
Instant local count, but local memberlist is delayed 1-2 minutes.
Sniggwaffe is recruiting |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 05:38:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Fto Cruise
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer could be to remove the local chat channel, or for a pilot to only appear if he speaks
as in alliance chat, if the channel gets over a certain size, wouldn't this greatly reduce server strain in nodes such as jita - where real time info was being broadcased to 500 people at once??
I want a compromise, I usualy don't check local in crowded systems, and frankly, if you enter a war or somewhat, it's usualy a good idea to avoid heavy nodes anyway, however, when theres less than 50 in a system, the current system is perfect.
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 06:42:00 -
[52]
Ok im sort of stuck on this issue based upon the area I operate in. I have to keep an eye on local for the gangs that jump through tasti from time to time as I am near 3 0.0 entry points.
Pros of Removing Local:
1. Finally possible to catch a miner that isn't a tard
2. No more oh shi- look at his sec status I better dock
3. it neutralizes the insta dock effect ccp gave us in kali whenever a pirate shows up
4. Surprise attacks easier
5. Increase emphasis on joining player corps so you can keep an eye on each other while out doing "your thing"
Cons of Removing Local
1. The unknown is the most terrifying of all variables
2. Kill fast or get blobbed (applies to the now but would be even more important to fit gank fittings to kill people)
3. Solo Piracy without a recon will be taboo
4. Increase use of cov ops scouts that will never be found due to our in ability to probe them (I hate these guys)
Sig Nerf - Cortes
I declare war on ISD!
You don't stand a chance -Karl
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Senti Kai
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Posted - 2006.12.27 06:55:00 -
[53]
Just to thrown in my 2cents, if the local list is removed (like it should :p) make sure it's not just a client side hack because someone will make a 3rd party program pretty fast.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.27 06:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Rman
Originally by: Roy Batty68
IIRC Oveur said something not that long ago along the lines of "local shouldn't be the tactical tool that it is today".
Ah ha! This is the kind of comments I am looking for! Thanks!
If you have a link to Oveurs post regarding this please free free to post it for me. I would like to see more on what the devs had to say.
Rman
Grab the Vegas gathering DevChat from eve-nn.com. But that's 9 months old news, dso basically useless now.
Did you see all the new info the chats are giving away now?
I don't think that removing of the chat as a tool for intel will happen any time soon because it basically kills off mining and ratting in LowSec and NulSec unless you're in Alliance-protected territory.
Or how'd you mine for hours on end when you have to scan (-1 miner and loads of scan probes!) every 30 seconds or more often if you want to have any chance to avoid getting ganked.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Ephemeron
The Syndicate Inc
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 07:17:00 -
[55]
Making local chat show character identity only when that character speaks would be a good change for me personally. It would benefit me as solo fighter against large numbers of enemies. Right now, if I, as solo fighter, jump into a system full of hostiles, they immidiately take notice and prepare an overwhelming force against me. If they didn't know that I just entered their system, I could have a chance, a bigger chance, to catch one or two of them unprepared before they setup a gank squad to counter me.
I can see how such changes to local would hurt the interest of non-pvpers and fleet oriented pvpers. It would make territory control harder for alliance leaders.
Nevertheless, I think that such a change to local is a step in right direction provided that new automated intelligence sharing tools are provided. These kind of tools:
*) When you see a player ship in your overview, the ship's pilot name automatically gets added to local chate. That person was scouted, so gathered information should be properly displayed.
*) You have option to share your intelligence with corp mates, alliance mates, gang members, and friendlies. Once someone in your gang has discovered a new person in local, all gang members should see that person in local.
*) Need a graphical feature that would signify age of the information. There needs to be a way to tell how recent the information you are getting is. It's possible that someone in your gang seen a new person in local, but if nobody seen him again for 5, 10, 30 minutes, the information becomes less valid. That person could have moved to different system or logged.
*) A smart local intelligence feature that knows that if your gang member seen Player1 in system A just now, then all other gang members in system B can't have Player1 show in local, in case he was previously spotted there but not seen leaving the system.
Stuff like that.
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Ephemeron
The Syndicate Inc
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.27 07:30:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tachy
Did you see all the new info the chats are giving away now?
I don't think that removing of the chat as a tool for intel will happen any time soon because it basically kills off mining and ratting in LowSec and NulSec unless you're in Alliance-protected territory.
Or how'd you mine for hours on end when you have to scan (-1 miner and loads of scan probes!) every 30 seconds or more often if you want to have any chance to avoid getting ganked.
Actually, that change to local wouldn't make rat hunting or mining in low sec impossible. It would make macro-NPCing and macro-mining impossible. But requiring a player to be at the computer to check scanner now and then and watch for signs on overview is not that bad.
You can still cloak instantly when some bad guy warps in on you. You can still use 1 WCS without it gimping your NPC setup too much. You can still insta-warp to ss when you are aligned. And, god forbid - fight back.
Yes, the change in local would remove something from near-invulnerability of smart NPCers and miners. You will lose ships. You will die now and then. But you will still make way more money than the ship losses.
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Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Provenance.
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Posted - 2006.12.27 08:00:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 27/12/2006 08:06:41
Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 27/12/2006 08:03:19
Quote:
it is supposed to be a bit of a challenge for you to clear a decent profit on it before you lose it.
Oh, I see. So Mining profit is way out of hand, and what we ACTUALLY want is to shift the vast majority of miners to the New Regions in their combat alts where they can "mine" while in a ship that can defend itself well, and "mine" by moving around constantly instead of sitting in one spot like a perfect target.
Wait...
Seriously, do people think about comments for 5 seconds? Sorry, but no, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make it "a decent challenge" to make a profit in a bloody mining barge(lol? I guess hulks are supposed to be a guaranteed loss investment, since it only costs you over 20 times as much to lose one of those, but they are nowhere near 20 times harder to kill).
If you make it HARDER to mine without getting killed, some very very simple consequences happen: People shift away from mining to safer isk-generating methods, because "profit" is a question of time input and isk gained.
OK, so now you say, "well generating isk should be much harder, lets nerf all methods of generating isk so that we can nerf miners without shifting them away!!"
Well, guess what happens now? Oh wait, that's RIGHT, high-end mineral prices rebound and then START TO SKYROCKET, making all ships more expensive and ****ing off pretty much everyone in the game as you have to spend more hours isk generating to play the other parts of the game, wars become more expensive, and thus rarer, ganking becomes more common and actual fights become less common.
Gratz? How does that make the game more fun?
(Do note, I'm not saying removing local would necessarily cause all this, but the motive of destroying mining safety to the point that you are at a decent risk of not making the cost of your mining barge back is so totally absurd that I really had to question that statement itself)
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Strel Samodelkin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.27 08:04:00 -
[58]
Nah, I only have 1 million skill points so I don't like this. I want to be able to see everyone in local, I don't care how fun it is for you to get right on top of me and warp scramble me in 5 seconds.
The origional "hate monger" |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.27 08:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Tachy
Did you see all the new info the chats are giving away now?
I don't think that removing of the chat as a tool for intel will happen any time soon because it basically kills off mining and ratting in LowSec and NulSec unless you're in Alliance-protected territory.
Or how'd you mine for hours on end when you have to scan (-1 miner and loads of scan probes!) every 30 seconds or more often if you want to have any chance to avoid getting ganked.
Actually, that change to local wouldn't make rat hunting or mining in low sec impossible. It would make macro-NPCing and macro-mining impossible. But requiring a player to be at the computer to check scanner now and then and watch for signs on overview is not that bad.
You can still cloak instantly when some bad guy warps in on you. You can still use 1 WCS without it gimping your NPC setup too much. You can still insta-warp to ss when you are aligned. And, god forbid - fight back.
Yes, the change in local would remove something from near-invulnerability of smart NPCers and miners. You will lose ships. You will die now and then. But you will still make way more money than the ship losses.
Cloaking is impossible when you're mining. Remember you need a cloak in a high slot, and nothing within 2.5km - not even a jetcan. Cloaking doesn't work when you're ratting because you're already locked. (So we're down 2 highslots - scanner and cloak - in your theory without any change for the miner/ratter.)
When you see someone in the overview with your barge, you're already in the wrong place. How long can you vex your overview constantly (10-15 minutes ...) and how do you see the CovOps or Recon that builds the undetectable warpin anchor for the rest of the group or the gankfitted alt? How long does it take to bump a ship out of alignment? Look at the time it takes to accelerate good enough to enter warp.
WCS are useless for mining and ratting. A single WCS wont save your ship and you already knew that. Multiple WCS will disable your ship for anything but travelling. 5km lock range does not cut it for mining.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
DaHeaVYFo
Gallente
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 09:15:00 -
[60]
I'm not going to scan for every ship in a system, to find they're at a POS or in a safe, and that there's no one in the system, waste of time. Nah, leave local where it is.
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Promon Delnai
Scorn.
Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.12.27 09:22:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jiekon
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
Smacktalked by a dev I win eve.
Originally by: Lance Tyr
You've obviously never been to jita or rens. they don't shut up.
Also, its obvious I'm not talking about the general smacktardery that goes on in Jita. The odds are the targets youre hunting in low-sec or 0.0 arent going to be trying to sell you caracals named as cerberuses in local.
________________
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Krashtest
Exploratory Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.27 09:45:00 -
[62]
Removal of local would suck , but making the use of the scanner make the user show in local would even things out. You are basically a submarine sending out a huge PING in order to scan a system, so the drawback would be instantly showing in local.
Think of it as walking into a dark auditorium and shouting "Anyone here?" Anyone there will know you are there.
This will allow the recon ships to warp around a system cloaked and not show, still allowing for sneak attacks, and gate campers will have to take on everything that jumps in, so fair for all involved.
As for claimed regions and systems , hostile and neutral jump-ins should be broadcast as early warning system with a module anchored at a gate which requires claiming of a system. These modules are able to be destroyed, but think of them as early warning sensors for an alliance. Not taking one out compromises an invasion attempt , but taking one out with a small roving force could make an annoyance for an alliance.
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papamikeforthewin
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Posted - 2006.12.27 11:46:00 -
[63]
Edited by: papamikeforthewin on 27/12/2006 12:07:02
hoo humm if only peeps would look a bit further than the first page of the General section for answers before starting new posts.
Check my sig for the best discussion so far on local nerfing.
basically removing local at this point would be overkill. Adding mods to basically do the same job could (tm) be on the drawing boards...
Also note that further into this thread a suggestion was raised regarding having a passive mod that "alarms" when a ship is being scanned hence pies would have to work harder for their meal ticket but macroers would be stuffed.
also the "local cloaks" could not be fitted in conjunction with standard cloaks to help combat against the use of covert op scouts that simply could not be found.
I find it interesting no one has discussed what nerfing local would mean for large fleet engagements in 0.0. I think the fact that ALL fleet engagements now come down to using local as A PRIMARY SOURCE OF INTEL is fundementally flawed.
Introducing anchorable lookout posts in 0.0 along with sentry guns would be an excellent balance for sov alliances. Perhaps even ones that require something like the pos documents for low sec could also work.
anyhoo check out sig for further explanation...
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.27 12:03:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
Don't be ignorant.
The problem with removing local is this:
A hunter will know where his prey will be: in 0.0 systems with highend ore and/or rats. For him to find his prey is easy.
For anyone living in 0.0 mining or ratting, he would need to push the scanning button every few seconds for all the long hours of a mining operation/ratting session. That is an unfair shift of the burden to miners/ratters. You cannot expect people to push a button to scan every few seconds for hours on end to be safe.
If you implement better scanning tools (which dont lag out the entire server or provide unusable results due to too many 'contacts'), then you can work on removing local.
The main reason you can't remove local now is because CCP has failed to put in decent scanning tools that would preserve a reasonable balance between attackers and defenders.
- Never trust a BoB, because he will lie and cheat while pretending to be honourable - |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
Rampage Eternal
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 12:04:00 -
[65]
#reading through the entire thread to make sure you are well informed: 10 min
#replying with a well informed and edited post in the attempt to contribute constructivly to an important issue within eve: 15 min
#realising you posted with your brand new alt and therefore look like a total jackass: timeless
Here is the link guys... ffs
The answer to Infection... I mean Local is HERE |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2006.12.27 13:22:00 -
[66]
My god, its only me that get this impression or all the miners don't know how tu use the directional scanner? People think they need probes to scan for pirates?
Anyones that does not want local removed or nerfed is simply LAZY AND COWARD!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.27 13:23:00 -
[67]
use more brute force or randomly place hig hvalue belts under the exploration system
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Dr Shameless
Skull Soft
The Sundering
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Posted - 2006.12.27 13:28:00 -
[68]
Removing local would be interesting and worth a try tbh. It doesnt need to be permanent - just to see how it works out, can be altered and made permanent later.
But then there would be something needed in 0.0 to make alliances holding space manageable. Something like a "Listening Post", that can be built only in claimed 0.0 space and constantly (every 30sec-5 min) reports the ships found in system to a channel of the builders choosing, with the name of the reporting post as there might be many. The post can be destroyable, so if a alliance places it in a safespot it needs to be probed out before taken down.
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.27 13:36:00 -
[69]
This is coming with deployable defences and scannable mining belts, and I'd bet money on that (ok maybe not). There are too many changes coming that'd make solo piracy near-impossible if they didn't remove local.
WTZ, static defenses, 'roid belts only accessible through scanning, standings showing in local, etc - CCP HAVE to know this would kill piracy dead cold. Remove local and piracy seems a lot more interesting though, so my bet is they're already planning on introducing it.
That or CCP are retarded, but I'm gonna play the optimist here and not accuse CCP of massive mental deficiencies.
Yet.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Winters Chill
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2006.12.27 14:05:00 -
[70]
If your going to remove "local" as a cheap as free system scanner (which it is btw). Not only does it show whoes in system, it give you free intel on the KINDS of player present. You should seriously consider rethinking the whole scanner/probe concept.
Maybe to be more in line with existing science fiction cannon (that makes more sense) than some convuluted game system mechanism.
1) Being able to scan a whole system should be available to everyone but should take time. Like the multifreqency probe execept comes as standard on a ship, dosn't cost 200k a time, is effected by skills and can be buffed with modules.
2) The directional scanner again should have a smaller arc (max 90 degrees), take time to get readings should be effected by skills, mudules etc.
3) scanning should have effective counters, powering down, lower energy signature, sensor cloak modules, to the full klingon style cloaking ships.
Tbh the whole present scanning system in eve is ill concienved and should have been fixed in beta, by looking at the real world and sci fi rather than game theory.
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Taliac
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.27 14:07:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Don't be ignorant.
The problem with removing local is this:
A hunter will know where his prey will be: in 0.0 systems with highend ore and/or rats. For him to find his prey is easy.
For anyone living in 0.0 mining or ratting, he would need to push the scanning button every few seconds for all the long hours of a mining operation/ratting session. That is an unfair shift of the burden to miners/ratters. You cannot expect people to push a button to scan every few seconds for hours on end to be safe.
If you implement better scanning tools (which dont lag out the entire server or provide unusable results due to too many 'contacts'), then you can work on removing local.
The main reason you can't remove local now is because CCP has failed to put in decent scanning tools that would preserve a reasonable balance between attackers and defenders.
Don't be ignorant.
Just have a cloaked scout on every gate in that system, you'll be warned if hostiles jump in.
No need to push scanner every second
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Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.27 14:28:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 27/12/2006 14:29:07
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
Don't be ignorant.
The problem with removing local is this:
[...]
Give Jiekon a break. From what i read the dev is answering to the impossibility of finding someone without local. It is far away from impossible, and anyway you do not use local to find someone. When it shows up in local you already found it.
to stay on topic :
With the current local if you are ratting alone and see someone in local in 0.0 your only choice is log off. As long as you stay online you will show in local and when you log back the probers will just come back to where you are.
You will never be able to hide, or escape if the attacker is persistent enough.
Where is the balance ? the defender has no tool to defend himself, just ctrl-q which is really lame.
In the end the attacker doesnt get any pvp because he is spotted as soon he enters, and the npcer doesnt get anything and have to stay logged off as long as the attacker knows he is there...
No npc, no pvp, no game, no fun...
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Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.27 14:31:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec
Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 27/12/2006 14:29:07
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
Don't be ignorant.
The problem with removing local is this:
[...]
Give Jiekon a break. From what i read the dev is answering to the impossibility of finding someone without local. It is far away from impossible, and anyway you do not use local to find someone. When it shows up in local you already found it.
to stay on topic :
With the current local if you are ratting alone and see someone in local in 0.0 your only choice is log off. As long as you stay online you will show in local and when you log back the probers will just come back to where you are.
You will never be able to hide, or escape if the attacker is persistent enough.
Where is the balance ? the defender has no tool to defend himself, just ctrl-q which is really lame.
In the end the attacker doesnt get any pvp because he is spotted as soon he enters, and the npcer doesnt get anything and have to stay logged off as long as the attacker knows he is there...
No npc, no pvp, no game, no fun...
What happened to cloaking, or trying to hide by bouncing your ship off of several different mons, roid fields, and safespots to confuse your pursuer and then hitting a gate and making a run for it?
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Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.27 14:59:00 -
[74]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
#reading through the entire thread to make sure you are well informed: 10 min
#replying with a well informed and edited post in the attempt to contribute constructivly to an important issue within eve: 15 min
#realising you posted with your brand new alt and therefore look like a total jackass: timeless
Here is the link guys... ffs
In my original post I was trying to find out why local is the way it is. Your post didn't really cover that. I just does what everyone else is doing by offering suggestions about that to do with local.
If you have any links to developer posts that explain the intended pourpose of local please post those too.
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Imperil
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.27 15:04:00 -
[75]
I thought this was in once for a test drive? You could see numbers in local, like you can now, you just could'nt see who it was.
You should add it again. It was great, and if carebears can't shut their crap mouth up, you can add a POS module that gives some kind of advantages to the alliance holding sovereignity.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Frobisher
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:05:00 -
[76]
I was thinking Local could be managed in a manner like this
Each person has their version of local that could work in the following way.
Station impact on local
- In a system containing an NPC station then local acts as it does now.
Reasoning: The NPC station can scan the system and recognise everyone who is present and broadcast to all pilots.
- In a system containing a POS then local would act as it does now for all members of the Corp (and alliance) that owns the POS.
Reasoning: The POS can scan the system and recognise everyone who is present and broadcast to all allied pilots.
- In a system with no station (or allied POS) then local would not show anything.
Scanning
To work as it does now. So you have the ability to scan who is in system.
Scan detection Module
A new module/innate ship ability/deployable item as a passive scan detector.
This would tell you that someone is scanning in system. DoesnÆt tell you who but at least you know someone is there and actively searching. Gives you the opportunity to scan yourself or run.
Cloaking
Cloaked ships will not appear in local. However if they actively scan then that would be detected. In addition it should be possible to scan for cloaked ships but at a greatly reduced effectiveness (i.e. it takes longer). If a cloaked ship spent (for example) 5 minutes in a system it would be detected by a Station or POS.
IÆm not sure what the ideas above would have on server load as it has to manage all these states but it would, I think, be a better representation of intelligence levels associated with a system.
Hey, this is my reality ... and I don't remember inviting you |
subvert
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Posted - 2006.12.27 15:12:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
A double edged proposal to be sure.
It would make it easier to catch someone without them getting the heads up that local currently provides.
It would make it very possible to spend HOURS searching for a target and never finding one
not true, the map tells you where targets are, but the targets cant sit in map when they doing whatever they are doing (especially the new buggy laggy map)
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.12.27 15:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Frobisher
I was thinking Local could be managed in a manner like this
Each person has their version of local that could work in the following way.
As interesting and thoughtful as your ideas are you are in danger of over-complicating an already over-complicated game with a myriad more new rules to remember (and there isn't a damned manual either). In this paper/scissors/stone game, stealth unwittingly (or rather wittingly) favours the attacker. Local as it is now addresses this in-balance by giving an opt-out option to the defender (unless of course you are up for a good log-off probing) and a good tool for tracking.
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j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.27 16:05:00 -
[79]
"to stay on topic :
With the current local if you are ratting alone and see someone in local in 0.0 your only choice is log off. As long as you stay online you will show in local and when you log back the probers will just come back to where you are.
You will never be able to hide, or escape if the attacker is persistent enough."
Kin, removing local is not answer to this problem, since even though the person won't show initially in the local their presence is still well established on the map. The attackers come to the system with fair knowledge there's target here to blow up and you are back to square one -- target has nowhere to run even if it spends whole day hitting that 'scan' button in "self-defense" to achieve the same thing the local window now provides them with.
A knee-jerk 'solution' to this could of course be removal of both local and map, but i'd like anyone who thinks this is great idea to perform simple exercise, first. Go and play EVE for a week never opening the map and with your local channel minimized no matter what. Only then come back and speak from some actual experience how such change worked out.
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Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.27 16:11:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Bastogne
What happened to cloaking, or trying to hide by bouncing your ship off of several different mons, roid fields, and safespots to confuse your pursuer and then hitting a gate and making a run for it?
Ofc you can do that, I would do that. but as soon you leave the system the attacker knows it, and will continue looking after you. Since you cant hide (thx to local) you will eventually die, dock, hide in a pos or log off. But for sure you will not be able continue your npcing. Local is double edged : it allows you to know if there is a probable danger, but it also allow anyone else to know you are there
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.12.27 16:49:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec
it allows you to know if there is a probable danger, but it also allow anyone else to know you are there
Sounds perfectly balanced to me.
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Fto Cruise
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Posted - 2006.12.27 17:20:00 -
[82]
I'd like to thank the OP for this thread, it's been an interesting discussion. Of course there is no easy answer to many of the problems people encounter in Eve, but discussing them doesn't harm anyone.
From my perspective, Warp to Zero plus Local is too powerful. Solo piracy has been reduced to gate camping unless your security status is positive. Why people trust a positive security status is beyond me, but they do!
Nowadays if you have a negative status, and I do, as soon as you turn up in Local, any possible target that's awake either warps to the instant safety of a station, the nearest gate to high sec or logs off completely. My local 0.4 is now virtually a 1.0 with jaspet and that aint right.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2006.12.27 17:30:00 -
[83]
I say remove local on the test server and see how things work out over there. As a solo pirate this could be interesting
Sig Nerf - Cortes
I declare war on ISD!
You don't stand a chance -Karl
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Mara Quinn
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.12.27 17:32:00 -
[84]
I think an answer was given to the problem close to the start..
Ships have a button to disconnect the datalink, turn off transponders etc etc.
By using the market etc, you are listed in local for a period of time.
If police, npc's etc see you, you are listed in local for a period of time.
Maybe 0.1 => Keep normal local, aswell as Sov constellations?..
Finally, a count of how many ppl are in system, which could be supplied by the gate(s) (rp).
Alliance / Corp members should show up in local to each other also.. RP element being the gates supplied the info to friendlys only...
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Xoria Krint
The Movement
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Posted - 2006.12.27 17:53:00 -
[85]
This is a great idea. PATCH NOW PLX!
---
My Movies
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.27 18:06:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
I say remove local on the test server and see how things work out over there. As a solo pirate this could be interesting
How many pilots do mine for hours on end in SiSi? How many free roaming gankers are out there? Oh right ... podding yields a nice ban ...
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Worry
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.27 18:07:00 -
[87]
Another option would be as follows.
1)I am in local alone ratting.
2)Someone jumps in- I see a unknown player icon
3)I hit scanner- all known friendly players with mutual standing are checked against my personal, corp & alliance list. If I know them the portrait pops up.
4)Oh Noes! I do not know them!
5)I safespot, run scanner and see a buzzard on scan dropping probes.
6)I run to second inline safe and align for gate.
7)Local fills up with unknown icons as I get up to speed.
8)Buzzard uncloaks as I see mixed fleet of cruisers and hacs dropping out of warp.
9)As each ship warps in the portrait appears in local.
To add depth to this players could keep a database of ôknown ship sigsö. This means if I pass the raven named SSbadguy2007 at a gate I know the ship and the pilot. If that ship jumps in and is scanned by me then I know who is in local with me but not until then.
In short players could keep a list of friendlies and hostiles that match against shiptype as well as ôfriendly broadcastsö û we still see when local gets a population spike. Eliminating local would be great but I still want some kind of population counter on my scanner that tells me the system is filling up.
Just a few ideasà.
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Promon Delnai
Scorn.
Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.12.27 18:15:00 -
[88]
Problem is a lot of these ideas might be good for a certain profession, but theyd utterly break other ones.
Worry has some decent ideas but the whole "check people against a server side list, every time" would likely result in bone-crushing lag, especially for people in empire.
________________
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Dirtball
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.27 18:50:00 -
[89]
Have the ( ) number in local change but you just dont know who.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.12.27 19:09:00 -
[90]
A plan for getting rid of local?
(1) Allow players to deploy sentries at gates - sentry alerts player when it attacks something (i.e. something not blue)
(2) Remove all asteroid and ice fields, make all fields appear by exploration only in random regional locations - or make them truly system-wide (with some nice GFX) but require some probing to find valuable seams.
(3) Allow players to scan the other side of a gate
.... just for starters ....
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Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.27 19:27:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Fto Cruise
I'd like to thank the OP for this thread, it's been an interesting discussion.
You are quite welcome! I had no idea it was going to turn into such a long disscussion though. I'm glad that it did. Some good points were brought. Im curious to see how it all turns out.
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Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.12.27 19:44:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Bastogne
What happened to cloaking, or trying to hide by bouncing your ship off of several different mons, roid fields, and safespots to confuse your pursuer and then hitting a gate and making a run for it?
These suggestions all assume that you know somebody is in the system with you.
The major flaw in removing local is that a ganker only needs to fly through the belts to find targets. Miners and ratters have to be in the belts and having to rescan every couple of seconds would reduce the entire game to pressing 1 button and hoping that nothing found you between presses.
As for picketing every gate, that's a silly suggestion. A small mining op, 2-3 miners, a hauler and some security, would then need to have as many people again picketing the gates to the system - which would eliminate the presence of small mining ops.
As much as local is a pain for some PvPers (heck, it was a pain last night when we went hunting and everything docked or SS'ed when our scouts jumped in) it would be much, much worse without it. The game would be nearly unplayable for many people. People who just want a casual gaming experience - log on for 30 min, kill some rats, chat with the corp, log off. If you can't even undock without a corp fleet what is the point of playing the game?
Kill Board
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Fto Cruise
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Posted - 2006.12.27 20:24:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
The game would be nearly unplayable for many people. People who just want a casual gaming experience - log on for 30 min, kill some rats, chat with the corp, log off. If you can't even undock without a corp fleet what is the point of playing the game?
This is what highsec and NPC corps are for.
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Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.28 00:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: j0sephine
Kin, removing local is not answer to this problem, since even though the person won't show initially in the local their presence is still well established on the map. The attackers come to the system with fair knowledge there's target here to blow up and you are back to square one
Not really square one, the map is updated every 30mn.
With local the attacker never gets the element of surprise that is necessary to get a kill (you have the same unknown when you jump in a system, the map is clear but there could be someone, and people camp gates and uses scouts for the same reason). But you also give the attacker the confirmation of a target in system.
In the end you have a stalled (stable) situation. Where both parties just wait the other (the attacker) to get bored or (the target) to make a mistake.
It's a binary system with a bynary input and a binary reaction : local friendly/hostile -> continue mining or npcing/hide.
Without local you create enough unstability (which doesn't mean unbalance since both parties are affected by such changes) to get a dynamic situation where the outcome is not fixed by just the amount of attention of the target on local, but by skills, experience and teamplay required to detect threat/target and avoid detection by target/threat.
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j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.28 02:12:00 -
[95]
"With local the attacker never gets the element of surprise that is necessary to get a kill"
I think this is in a way admitting people ask to get the local removed so they get better odds to gank targets that run as soon as they see them ... because these would-be targets are perfectly aware they stand no chance in actual combat with their attacker.
I'm not sure, but with the new scanning system which allows to locate such targets quite fast nowadays ... i just see even less need to screw with local than ever. Before, people did have a vaguely valid point of how it's impossible to chase/nail down people once they warp off the belt and into the safespot. But this is not really any longer the case and even logging off doesn't mean one can be 100% sure they saved their ship ::cough::Cyvok::cough::
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Zaribeth
Xoth Inc
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.28 02:35:00 -
[96]
If this was to get into eve two thing need also be added: System defense, liek sentrys at gate's or station's, and constelation chat to be non closeable.
OR just remove local and replace it with constelation chat alltoghter.
Imagine a bob assault and you dont even know about it before they jump you and kill you :)
(bob used as reference only becasue i love you guys)
-------FIX-------
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Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.28 03:30:00 -
[97]
I think this is in a way admitting people ask to get the local removed so they get better odds to gank targets that run as soon as they see them ... because these would-be targets are perfectly aware they stand no chance in actual combat with their attacker.
Imo nobody stands a chance if caught by surprise, you have to suppose that someone attacking you already did math about the odds of the fight, or the attacker is a fool. Reaction is escape, get intel, evaluate, and then strike back.
It is not about easy ganks, it's not even about alliances having hard times patrolling their territory (and paradoxally being the ones usually doing the ganking).
Someone said "without local it would be like being in a dark room", why there should be a light in the first place ?
It's like playing poker with cards on table, you cant lose if you do not play, and you will not play a losing game, but you cant win neither since it's the same for the others. You end up not playing.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2006.12.28 03:40:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec
I think this is in a way admitting people ask to get the local removed so they get better odds to gank targets that run as soon as they see them ... because these would-be targets are perfectly aware they stand no chance in actual combat with their attacker.
Imo nobody stands a chance if caught by surprise, you have to suppose that someone attacking you already did math about the odds of the fight, or the attacker is a fool. Reaction is escape, get intel, evaluate, and then strike back.
It is not about easy ganks, it's not even about alliances having hard times patrolling their territory (and paradoxally being the ones usually doing the ganking).
Someone said "without local it would be like being in a dark room", why there should be a light in the first place ?
It's like playing poker with cards on table, you cant lose if you do not play, and you will not play a losing game, but you cant win neither since it's the same for the others. You end up not playing.
I like what he said
Sig Nerf - Cortes
I declare war on ISD!
You don't stand a chance -Karl
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j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.28 05:00:00 -
[99]
"Imo nobody stands a chance if caught by surprise, you have to suppose that someone attacking you already did math about the odds of the fight, or the attacker is a fool. Reaction is escape, get intel, evaluate, and then strike back."
Hmm if we look at it from this angle, then wouldn't it mean the very thing that's being said in response to local nerf suggestions... that is, increase of surprise factor = less fights overall because no one is going to risk getting in fight where they aren't sure about having upper hand?
"Someone said "without local it would be like being in a dark room", why there should be a light in the first place ?"
See above ^^ even between 1-2 solar systems there's enough room to hide force that can be potentially always larger than whatever amount you have with you. With inability to estimate the odds how many people will be willing to risk "being a fool" (your words) and attack what's potentially a trap
"It's like playing poker with cards on table, you cant lose if you do not play, and you will not play a losing game, but you cant win neither since it's the same for the others. You end up not playing."
Precisely. except in EVE this tends to be more about people refusing to play if they don't know the other person't cards... because "you will not play a (potentially) losing game" as that would mean you are a fool. So yes, it's likely we would wind up with most simply not playing.
We can complain but this is simply way people are, as evidenced by numbers ctrl-q'ing daily. So making the mechanics even more severe ... there isn't much to gain here, but a lot can be lost imo.
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Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.28 12:04:00 -
[100]
increase of surprise factor = less fights overall because no one is going to risk getting in fight where they aren't sure about having upper hand?
You are assuming less people will attack because they will fear traps. Probably true, but in the other hand those who overcome their fear of the monster in closet will be able to attack more people (since target will be less likely able to hide).
The dark and unknown are not always hostiles. Sometimes they are, then your experience and teamplay will get you out of a trap. Most times it's just an empty dak room.
See above ^^ even between 1-2 solar systems there's enough room to hide force that can be potentially always larger than whatever amount you have with you. With inability to estimate the odds how many people will be willing to risk "being a fool" (your words) and attack what's potentially a trap
[...]
Precisely. except in EVE this tends to be more about people refusing to play if they don't know the other person't cards... because "you will not play a (potentially) losing game" as that would mean you are a fool. So yes, it's likely we would wind up with most simply not playing.
you misunderstood by a "fool" (or someone very brave) i was talking about attacking known odds stronger than yours, like attacking a force that outnumbers us for more than 5:1 for bob pilots. (5 max targets if you didnt bother training multitasking). The unknown is always there.
If the unknown is the same for both parties why be scared of it ?
People control-q because thay have more to lose than to win in an unconsensual fight. If they dont know it they wont be able to log. And after being ganked once, if they grow balls, maybe they will consider setting up a trap to take revenge.
We can complain but this is simply way people are, as evidenced by numbers ctrl-q'ing daily. So making the mechanics even more severe ... there isn't much to gain here, but a lot can be lost imo
There is a lot to gain imo. There is the ability to hide and surprise which is both ways ! Why people live in 0.0 ? because gain > fear. This ability will also take strategy and tactics to a new level. Not just the Estimate the opponent odds, wait for more reinforcements, Reestimate, wait for more people, Reestimate again... then engage when both fleets have reached their maximum number. If you have to engage to estimate the opponent, then you will engage with expendable ships, win or lose, then come back with more people and engage again.
I prefer the latter.
And ofc less gate camping without local :)
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Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.28 13:19:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Rman
Edited by: Rman on 26/12/2006 19:12:24
Originally by: Fto Cruise
The answer could be to remove the local chat channel, or for a pilot to only appear if he speaks.
This is from another thread but I like this idea. Anyone know why something like this has not been done already?
Thanks,
Rman
How about no local and no map showing that there was anyone in a system 30 minutes ago.
New NPC Region |
goatplasma
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.28 13:31:00 -
[102]
If anything of the sort was implemented, it would ruin EVE completely. This isn't real life kids, it's a game, get it into your heads.
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ArtemisEntreri
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.12.28 13:41:00 -
[103]
Originally by: goatplasma
If anything of the sort was implemented, it would ruin EVE completely. This isn't real life kids, it's a game, get it into your heads.
Please explain how that it would ruin the game? I say remove local and add something instead, constellation chat or longer scanning range or similar.
Cormack's Power diag |
Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.28 14:10:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec
There is a lot to gain imo. There is the ability to hide and surprise which is both ways ! Why people live in 0.0 ? because gain > fear. This ability will also take strategy and tactics to a new level. Not just the Estimate the opponent odds, wait for more reinforcements, Reestimate, wait for more people, Reestimate again... then engage when both fleets have reached their maximum number.
So instead of alliance battles being blob on blob, you want them to be a whole bunch of waiting and then blob on blob.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2006.12.28 14:35:00 -
[105]
No local is better for both sides.
Pirates can get in and not everyoen imediately log off 9 and taht is main problem log off!!!) While miners and others can get in and not imediately start tro be hunted.
Defensive scanning is much easier than offensive one (just keep 360 degree max range and click every 1 minute), at least you have something to do.. otherwise mining is just looking at local.
Even to rat i would get more often in low sec if there was no local. Because when i get in today i know i am going to be hunted as soon as I see someone in local.
Local disturbs most of the chances of fun in the game. No local also mean pirate smight attack a target just to discover that there were not 2 ships of that corp in system... but 8.. and now they are screwed.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Amiable Quinn
Minmatar
Lasleinur Production
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2006.12.28 14:59:00 -
[106]
Few points:
1. Removing local substantially favors the aggressor. If such a change were made there would need to be some other sort of re-balancing. NPCers/miners remain stationary while PvPer's roam. Basically if a PvP fitted ship ctaches an NPC fitted ship they are pretty much dead. The hard part is the catching, not the killing.
2. I catch haulers/miners fine in my PvP fitted rifter. Do some get away? Yes. It takes a long time for those local-hull-expanded babies to get into warp. If you jump into the right belt you can find them. This obviously requires a but of luck, but it can be done with any decntly fast-to-warp ship.
Local is fine as is.
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uNtOldOne
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Posted - 2006.12.28 15:20:00 -
[107]
Edited by: uNtOldOne on 28/12/2006 15:21:32
I would say a skill point cap. Say 3 mil to 5 mil on the primary character or highest skilled character on the account (so you cant just create an alt to see local)...some were in that area. No seeing local cept in high sec. There are new commers to the game and they really dont know or are still learning.
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Fto Cruise
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Posted - 2006.12.28 16:23:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Amiable Quinn
I catch haulers/miners fine in my PvP fitted rifter. Do some get away? Yes. This obviously requires a but of luck, but it can be done with any decntly fast-to-warp ship.
Local is fine as is.
I don't want to use a rifter. I haven't spent over 3 years training my skills to use a rifter. I want to be able to chase people to the gates, fire on them, tank their firepower and that of the sentry guns and blow them up before either they escape or I blow up!
Right now lowsec gives little pvp unless you're gate camping or you're up against complete idiots who stay where they are or warp right on top of you (yes, it happened!) No fun if there's no challenge!
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Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.28 16:30:00 -
[109]
Sentries should not be so easily tankable. I would be ok with them being tankable only in a heavily tanked BS or BC with other people remote repping/boosting the guy tanking the sentry hit.
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j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.28 17:41:00 -
[110]
"You are assuming less people will attack because they will fear traps. Probably true, but in the other hand those who overcome their fear of the monster in closet will be able to attack more people (since target will be less likely able to hide)."
Am estimating there will be (even) less people period in low security areas because of increased uncertainty factor.... which means even those willing to risk play in such environment would have less targets to attack. Coupled with increased difficulty of finding anyone, i think the end effect is going to be less people attacked (in raw numbers, not percentage) even if they may not run so often
E.g. if nowadays you can find 10 targets on daily trip and 8 of them gets away, you still have 2 targets attacked. If after new changes you can find 10 targets in a week and only 2 out of them run... you are still short compared to previous situation (14 targets in a week vs 8, and with significantly less trouble finding them in the first place)
"you misunderstood by a "fool" (or someone very brave) i was talking about attacking known odds stronger than yours, like attacking a force that outnumbers us for more than 5:1 for bob pilots. (5 max targets if you didnt bother training multitasking). The unknown is always there.
If the unknown is the same for both parties why be scared of it ?"
No, we simply looked at the same issue from different angles ^^
With removed ability to estimate the enemy odds, you have to presume your targets have backups. This means potentially the enemy has larger force than your own. So attacking anyone with this possibility looming *is* 'being foolish' because unlike nowadays you can never be sure you do have the upper hand.
And since like you said, with few exceptions people tend to attack only when they are sure they have the upper hand, with this assurance removed the number of fights is very likely to sharply drop... since it only takes one side to log off because they don't want to risk it, to make the fight not happen. Why would they be scared of unknown if it's the same for both sides? Because it's still the unknown _for them_ just the same.
"People control-q because thay have more to lose than to win in an unconsensual fight."
People ctrl-q because they don't want to lose, period ^^ this extends to all other parts of combat, unfortunately, but overall boils down to what you said -- if they cannot be certain of winning, they'd rather simply not fight.
"Why people live in 0.0 ? because gain > fear."
People live in low sec because gain exceeds the risk. So when you increase the risk, natural consequence is less people living there, because the gain that didn't change no longer meets their personal gain/risk threshold.
"This ability will also take strategy and tactics to a new level."
I think it's personal preference here, but myself i don't find anything exciting or new in the "a-ha! feel the wrath of my dozen extra battleships i had hidden until now!" ... so you manage to get a surprise gank on enemy who wasn't smart enough to take this into account. Big whoop, people do these every day as it is, sometimes with logging on and sometimes without. So what's *new* here?
"And ofc less gate camping without local :)"
Why would there be less gate camping? If anything, with the increased difficulty to locate people it's quite likely this is what people would focus on -- gates and stations. Because it's easiest way to actually find someone, and with cloaked lookout on gate in next and previous system you are pretty much immune to any surprise attack short of the old log on traps...
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Amiable Quinn
Minmatar
Lasleinur Production
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2006.12.28 18:00:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Fto Cruise
I don't want to use a rifter. I haven't spent over 3 years training my skills to use a rifter.
Uh... QQ?
If you want to catch people you need to:
1. Fly a fast ship or
2. Team up with someone flying a fast ship.
Training skills for three years (or buying a 3 year old character off of E-bay) doesn't = I win button. You still need to engage in some basic tactics to put those skills to use.
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Fto Cruise
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Posted - 2006.12.28 22:51:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Amiable Quinn
If you want to catch people you need to:
1. Fly a fast ship or
2. Team up with someone flying a fast ship.
Training skills for three years (or buying a 3 year old character off of E-bay) doesn't = I win button.
Incorrect. You just need to be able to lock fast. Teaming up is not always an option, plus I prefer the odds of 1 + sentry guns vs me, you do remember there are sentry guns in lowsec right? And yes I've been here 3 years+ 
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Skraelingz
Gallente
Gallente Federal Bank
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.28 23:14:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Siakel
Because the people NPCing/Mining/Whatever have to scan constantly or die, while the attackers only have to scan a few times to find the targets, and don't suffer any real penalty for not hitting the 'Scan' button every three seconds, I'd think.
Also makes it nearly impossible to defend your space(Because it isn't hard enough now...).
Exactly why the op idea would make going into 0.0 to do anything other than gank a suicide mission. goodbye ratting/mining.
-----------------------------------------------
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2006.12.28 23:19:00 -
[114]
I think removing local would open up a void in protection that would need to be filled and hence a good anti pirate force is finally born to protect 0.0 entry ways or miners in need (preferrably without the smacktalk skill lvl'd at all).
Sig Nerf - Cortes
I declare war on ISD!
You don't stand a chance -Karl
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Davmi Costo
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Posted - 2006.12.28 23:34:00 -
[115]
I'd like to see local and 'pilots in space' removed. I see both of them as a fix to space being too empty - is it still so empty though?
Granted 0.0 and low sec is but high sec is crammed full of players most of the day and I suspect if the chances of slipping by un-noticed were higher more of those would be taking trips into low sec / 0.0 than currently are.
There's still gate camps, but they canot camp every gate 23/7 and you only need to get through the border once to enjoy the bounty the other side, without people being able to 'know' you are there from the other side of the galaxy.
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Koval
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.28 23:36:00 -
[116]
I hope I'll manage to live long enough to see the local gone =] This is what this game really needs. It's not hard to improve scouting tools like scanner (add constant refresh rate, make some skills and mods to upgrade scanner abilities etc) so it doesn't have to be fighting in a fog. On the other hand Eve would gain insane depth. PVP would become more hardcore thing where balls > numbers, currently in most cases it's about comparing local numbers which personally i'm sick of.
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Daravel
Caldari
Ore Mongers
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.28 23:59:00 -
[117]
Taking a RP and practical view here, lets say every empire stargate records who jumps through a gate and that is broadcasted out. Sounds reasonable? Empires want to see who goes where, and broadcast it for public safety.
0.0, there are no empires, so it isnt recorded (possible with the later soverignty features?), so, no local.
Miners/ratters are vulnerable - Well, if your in alliance space, this should be controlled, and provides more incentive to do so.
increased use for recons/cov ops. Required for all gangs/fleets and all sorts. Kind of like real life would be... ever head of an army going somewhere without a recon group 20 miles ahead?
I read that cov-ops are immune to normal scanning? If so, why not provide a cov-ops/recon only probe that gives a reading of every ship in the system? I dunno, something to make a real cat and mouse type thing for scouts.
I dunno if its all a good thing, im sure there are many problems. But I think that in real life, and realisticaly (sp?) speaking, local wouldnt exist, and it sounds so much more fun for it to not exist.
This Sig is unerfable because I am going to take all the character spaces so that the evil sig hijackers can't get a single letter in. I beat ISD! Mwhahahahah |
Amiable Quinn
Minmatar
Lasleinur Production
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2006.12.29 00:21:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Amiable Quinn on 29/12/2006 00:21:03
Originally by: Fto Cruise
Incorrect. You just need to be able to lock fast. Teaming up is not always an option, plus I prefer the odds of 1 + sentry guns vs me, you do remember there are sentry guns in lowsec right? And yes I've been here 3 years+
Uh, if you want to catch slow ships before they warp off the belts upon your entrance to local, you will, indeed, need a ship that enters warp relatively fast and can get to them before they align to warp and warp off. I believe we were discussing warping to belts to catch folks, not gate camping. I have no idea what sentry guns have to do with this discussion.
If you are camping a gate I fail to see how local helps or hinders you, especially considering everyone has warp to zero now. You are going to have to catch them on the other side in any event. If they jump in and you are sitting at the gate, they are going to see you local or not. (Unless you are in a stealthed ship). So what does local have to do with tanking sentry guns?
I'm sorry you believe that CCP decided to make it more difficult for you to use your 3+ years of training to catch noobs jumping into gates. Since you have played the game so long obviously CCP should be catering to your every whim. I suggest writing a polite but stern letter beginning: "Dear CCP, I am not a c r ackpot..."
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Imperil
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 09:24:00 -
[119]
Who cares what other peoples will do. If they chose to not go out to 0.0 because there is no local, too bad for them. But I bet there is a lot of others that will.
Todays EVE is so fecking sad. As soon as people see hostile in local, they fecking LOG! And it is instant safety because you do not get aggression timer from NPC's.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Galk
Gallente
Autumn Tactics
All the things she said
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Posted - 2006.12.29 10:36:00 -
[120]
It would be like "hello... is anybody else playing this game"
The very forum vocal don't make the game unfortunately... shame realy.
It would be one more nail in the coffin were it ever to come about.
While im fairly sure something might change in your no sec space... in time after ccp feel enough people are out there playing the 'game'.
Sadly (or thankfully, if you enjoy the game) it won't change in empire sec.
Depends i spose if you play in 'hardcore' mode.... while the forum vocals think that everybody should.. and if not why not... ect ect...
Sadly ccp see things with a little more scope.
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Thetys
Surfer des Sandwurms
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:46:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Thetys on 29/12/2006 11:58:31
Edited by: Thetys on 29/12/2006 11:51:44
i would love the idea of having no local at all - but appear only if talking works too
it would add a lot for pvp and atmosphere.
it would be a benefit for both sides arguing here.
those guys who are afraid of low sec / 0.0 would be a lil bit more save since gankers/pirates will finally need to get a clue bout what they doing (scanner/probes) - atm most wanna be pirates just fly around belts and kos stuff
you guys need to realize that pirates choose their victims via local. if they find an empty local - they just fly to the next system. which means they need more time to find a pray, which means less people get killed by them
those guys who do nasty things out there can fit their role better, hide, sneak and ambush a LOT better if they bring propper skills/ships/equipment
fleet battles would be a lot more difficult and thrilling - atm its like "oh wait, the 120 man blob just left local"
oh and yes, scanning the other side of the gate would be a nice thing too - the only thing to avoid a gate camp in 0.0 is having a scout, thats ok, i like my covert but having another counter for it would be awesome! maybe special eq to scan other side of the gate or something - that would encourage people to invade 0.0 even more now with 0km warps
and another last thing, i understand the "miners-problem", most of them have problems dealing with rats - not to speak bout badass pirates, i do not say "make miners invicible" (since i like to shoot stuff as well) but giving small corps/teams the ability to mine in low/0.0 somewhat save would be a good thing. alltho, im not sure how to do it. maybe a scanner-avoid item with huge combat penalties? or add more explo belts? i dunno
but thats just me
thetys
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