| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Promon Delnai
Scorn.
Sani Khal'Vecna
   |
Posted - 2006.12.27 09:22:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Jiekon
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text 
Smacktalked by a dev  I win eve.
Originally by: Lance Tyr
You've obviously never been to jita or rens. they don't shut up.
Also, its obvious I'm not talking about the general smacktardery that goes on in Jita. The odds are the targets youre hunting in low-sec or 0.0 arent going to be trying to sell you caracals named as cerberuses in local.
________________
|
Krashtest
Exploratory Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 09:45:00 -
[62]
Removal of local would suck , but making the use of the scanner make the user show in local would even things out. You are basically a submarine sending out a huge PING in order to scan a system, so the drawback would be instantly showing in local.
Think of it as walking into a dark auditorium and shouting "Anyone here?" Anyone there will know you are there.
This will allow the recon ships to warp around a system cloaked and not show, still allowing for sneak attacks, and gate campers will have to take on everything that jumps in, so fair for all involved.
As for claimed regions and systems , hostile and neutral jump-ins should be broadcast as early warning system with a module anchored at a gate which requires claiming of a system. These modules are able to be destroyed, but think of them as early warning sensors for an alliance. Not taking one out compromises an invasion attempt , but taking one out with a small roving force could make an annoyance for an alliance.
|
papamikeforthewin
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 11:46:00 -
[63]
Edited by: papamikeforthewin on 27/12/2006 12:07:02
hoo humm if only peeps would look a bit further than the first page of the General section for answers before starting new posts.
Check my sig for the best discussion so far on local nerfing.
basically removing local at this point would be overkill. Adding mods to basically do the same job could (tm) be on the drawing boards...
Also note that further into this thread a suggestion was raised regarding having a passive mod that "alarms" when a ship is being scanned hence pies would have to work harder for their meal ticket but macroers would be stuffed.
also the "local cloaks" could not be fitted in conjunction with standard cloaks to help combat against the use of covert op scouts that simply could not be found.
I find it interesting no one has discussed what nerfing local would mean for large fleet engagements in 0.0. I think the fact that ALL fleet engagements now come down to using local as A PRIMARY SOURCE OF INTEL is fundementally flawed.
Introducing anchorable lookout posts in 0.0 along with sentry guns would be an excellent balance for sov alliances. Perhaps even ones that require something like the pos documents for low sec could also work.
anyhoo check out sig for further explanation...
|
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 12:03:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
Don't be ignorant.
The problem with removing local is this:
A hunter will know where his prey will be: in 0.0 systems with highend ore and/or rats. For him to find his prey is easy.
For anyone living in 0.0 mining or ratting, he would need to push the scanning button every few seconds for all the long hours of a mining operation/ratting session. That is an unfair shift of the burden to miners/ratters. You cannot expect people to push a button to scan every few seconds for hours on end to be safe.
If you implement better scanning tools (which dont lag out the entire server or provide unusable results due to too many 'contacts'), then you can work on removing local.
The main reason you can't remove local now is because CCP has failed to put in decent scanning tools that would preserve a reasonable balance between attackers and defenders.
- Never trust a BoB, because he will lie and cheat while pretending to be honourable - |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
Rampage Eternal
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 12:04:00 -
[65]
#reading through the entire thread to make sure you are well informed: 10 min
#replying with a well informed and edited post in the attempt to contribute constructivly to an important issue within eve: 15 min
#realising you posted with your brand new alt and therefore look like a total jackass: timeless
Here is the link guys... ffs
The answer to Infection... I mean Local is HERE |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 13:22:00 -
[66]
My god, its only me that get this impression or all the miners don't know how tu use the directional scanner? People think they need probes to scan for pirates?
Anyones that does not want local removed or nerfed is simply LAZY AND COWARD!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
New Eve Order
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 13:23:00 -
[67]
use more brute force or randomly place hig hvalue belts under the exploration system
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Dr Shameless
Skull Soft
The Sundering
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 13:28:00 -
[68]
Removing local would be interesting and worth a try tbh. It doesnt need to be permanent - just to see how it works out, can be altered and made permanent later.
But then there would be something needed in 0.0 to make alliances holding space manageable. Something like a "Listening Post", that can be built only in claimed 0.0 space and constantly (every 30sec-5 min) reports the ships found in system to a channel of the builders choosing, with the name of the reporting post as there might be many. The post can be destroyable, so if a alliance places it in a safespot it needs to be probed out before taken down.
|
Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 13:36:00 -
[69]
This is coming with deployable defences and scannable mining belts, and I'd bet money on that (ok maybe not). There are too many changes coming that'd make solo piracy near-impossible if they didn't remove local.
WTZ, static defenses, 'roid belts only accessible through scanning, standings showing in local, etc - CCP HAVE to know this would kill piracy dead cold. Remove local and piracy seems a lot more interesting though, so my bet is they're already planning on introducing it.
That or CCP are retarded, but I'm gonna play the optimist here and not accuse CCP of massive mental deficiencies.
Yet.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Winters Chill
Amarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 14:05:00 -
[70]
If your going to remove "local" as a cheap as free system scanner (which it is btw). Not only does it show whoes in system, it give you free intel on the KINDS of player present. You should seriously consider rethinking the whole scanner/probe concept.
Maybe to be more in line with existing science fiction cannon (that makes more sense) than some convuluted game system mechanism.
1) Being able to scan a whole system should be available to everyone but should take time. Like the multifreqency probe execept comes as standard on a ship, dosn't cost 200k a time, is effected by skills and can be buffed with modules.
2) The directional scanner again should have a smaller arc (max 90 degrees), take time to get readings should be effected by skills, mudules etc.
3) scanning should have effective counters, powering down, lower energy signature, sensor cloak modules, to the full klingon style cloaking ships.
Tbh the whole present scanning system in eve is ill concienved and should have been fixed in beta, by looking at the real world and sci fi rather than game theory.
|
Taliac
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 14:07:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Don't be ignorant.
The problem with removing local is this:
A hunter will know where his prey will be: in 0.0 systems with highend ore and/or rats. For him to find his prey is easy.
For anyone living in 0.0 mining or ratting, he would need to push the scanning button every few seconds for all the long hours of a mining operation/ratting session. That is an unfair shift of the burden to miners/ratters. You cannot expect people to push a button to scan every few seconds for hours on end to be safe.
If you implement better scanning tools (which dont lag out the entire server or provide unusable results due to too many 'contacts'), then you can work on removing local.
The main reason you can't remove local now is because CCP has failed to put in decent scanning tools that would preserve a reasonable balance between attackers and defenders.
Don't be ignorant.
Just have a cloaked scout on every gate in that system, you'll be warned if hostiles jump in.
No need to push scanner every second
|
Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 14:28:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 27/12/2006 14:29:07
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
Don't be ignorant.
The problem with removing local is this:
[...]
Give Jiekon a break. From what i read the dev is answering to the impossibility of finding someone without local. It is far away from impossible, and anyway you do not use local to find someone. When it shows up in local you already found it.
to stay on topic :
With the current local if you are ratting alone and see someone in local in 0.0 your only choice is log off. As long as you stay online you will show in local and when you log back the probers will just come back to where you are.
You will never be able to hide, or escape if the attacker is persistent enough.
Where is the balance ? the defender has no tool to defend himself, just ctrl-q which is really lame.
In the end the attacker doesnt get any pvp because he is spotted as soon he enters, and the npcer doesnt get anything and have to stay logged off as long as the attacker knows he is there...
No npc, no pvp, no game, no fun... 
|
Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 14:31:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec
Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 27/12/2006 14:29:07
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: Promon Delnai
Who talks in local anyway?
Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find people if this was implemented?
bad idea.
About as impossible as talking to a locator agent and typing the victims name into the search text
Don't be ignorant.
The problem with removing local is this:
[...]
Give Jiekon a break. From what i read the dev is answering to the impossibility of finding someone without local. It is far away from impossible, and anyway you do not use local to find someone. When it shows up in local you already found it.
to stay on topic :
With the current local if you are ratting alone and see someone in local in 0.0 your only choice is log off. As long as you stay online you will show in local and when you log back the probers will just come back to where you are.
You will never be able to hide, or escape if the attacker is persistent enough.
Where is the balance ? the defender has no tool to defend himself, just ctrl-q which is really lame.
In the end the attacker doesnt get any pvp because he is spotted as soon he enters, and the npcer doesnt get anything and have to stay logged off as long as the attacker knows he is there...
No npc, no pvp, no game, no fun...
What happened to cloaking, or trying to hide by bouncing your ship off of several different mons, roid fields, and safespots to confuse your pursuer and then hitting a gate and making a run for it?
|
Rman
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 14:59:00 -
[74]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
#reading through the entire thread to make sure you are well informed: 10 min
#replying with a well informed and edited post in the attempt to contribute constructivly to an important issue within eve: 15 min
#realising you posted with your brand new alt and therefore look like a total jackass: timeless
Here is the link guys... ffs
In my original post I was trying to find out why local is the way it is. Your post didn't really cover that. I just does what everyone else is doing by offering suggestions about that to do with local.
If you have any links to developer posts that explain the intended pourpose of local please post those too.
|
Imperil
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:04:00 -
[75]
I thought this was in once for a test drive? You could see numbers in local, like you can now, you just could'nt see who it was.
You should add it again. It was great, and if carebears can't shut their crap mouth up, you can add a POS module that gives some kind of advantages to the alliance holding sovereignity.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Frobisher
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:05:00 -
[76]
I was thinking Local could be managed in a manner like this
Each person has their version of local that could work in the following way.
Station impact on local
- In a system containing an NPC station then local acts as it does now.
Reasoning: The NPC station can scan the system and recognise everyone who is present and broadcast to all pilots.
- In a system containing a POS then local would act as it does now for all members of the Corp (and alliance) that owns the POS.
Reasoning: The POS can scan the system and recognise everyone who is present and broadcast to all allied pilots.
- In a system with no station (or allied POS) then local would not show anything.
Scanning
To work as it does now. So you have the ability to scan who is in system.
Scan detection Module
A new module/innate ship ability/deployable item as a passive scan detector.
This would tell you that someone is scanning in system. DoesnÆt tell you who but at least you know someone is there and actively searching. Gives you the opportunity to scan yourself or run.
Cloaking
Cloaked ships will not appear in local. However if they actively scan then that would be detected. In addition it should be possible to scan for cloaked ships but at a greatly reduced effectiveness (i.e. it takes longer). If a cloaked ship spent (for example) 5 minutes in a system it would be detected by a Station or POS.
IÆm not sure what the ideas above would have on server load as it has to manage all these states but it would, I think, be a better representation of intelligence levels associated with a system.
Hey, this is my reality ... and I don't remember inviting you |
subvert
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:12:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
A double edged proposal to be sure.
It would make it easier to catch someone without them getting the heads up that local currently provides.
It would make it very possible to spend HOURS searching for a target and never finding one
not true, the map tells you where targets are, but the targets cant sit in map when they doing whatever they are doing (especially the new buggy laggy map)
|
BurnHard
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Frobisher
I was thinking Local could be managed in a manner like this
Each person has their version of local that could work in the following way.
As interesting and thoughtful as your ideas are you are in danger of over-complicating an already over-complicated game with a myriad more new rules to remember (and there isn't a damned manual either). In this paper/scissors/stone game, stealth unwittingly (or rather wittingly) favours the attacker. Local as it is now addresses this in-balance by giving an opt-out option to the defender (unless of course you are up for a good log-off probing) and a good tool for tracking.
|
j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 16:05:00 -
[79]
"to stay on topic :
With the current local if you are ratting alone and see someone in local in 0.0 your only choice is log off. As long as you stay online you will show in local and when you log back the probers will just come back to where you are.
You will never be able to hide, or escape if the attacker is persistent enough."
Kin, removing local is not answer to this problem, since even though the person won't show initially in the local their presence is still well established on the map. The attackers come to the system with fair knowledge there's target here to blow up and you are back to square one -- target has nowhere to run even if it spends whole day hitting that 'scan' button in "self-defense" to achieve the same thing the local window now provides them with.
A knee-jerk 'solution' to this could of course be removal of both local and map, but i'd like anyone who thinks this is great idea to perform simple exercise, first. Go and play EVE for a week never opening the map and with your local channel minimized no matter what. Only then come back and speak from some actual experience how such change worked out.
|
Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 16:11:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Bastogne
What happened to cloaking, or trying to hide by bouncing your ship off of several different mons, roid fields, and safespots to confuse your pursuer and then hitting a gate and making a run for it?
Ofc you can do that, I would do that. but as soon you leave the system the attacker knows it, and will continue looking after you. Since you cant hide (thx to local) you will eventually die, dock, hide in a pos or log off. But for sure you will not be able continue your npcing. Local is double edged : it allows you to know if there is a probable danger, but it also allow anyone else to know you are there
|
BurnHard
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 16:49:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec
it allows you to know if there is a probable danger, but it also allow anyone else to know you are there
Sounds perfectly balanced to me.
|
Fto Cruise
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 17:20:00 -
[82]
I'd like to thank the OP for this thread, it's been an interesting discussion. Of course there is no easy answer to many of the problems people encounter in Eve, but discussing them doesn't harm anyone.
From my perspective, Warp to Zero plus Local is too powerful. Solo piracy has been reduced to gate camping unless your security status is positive. Why people trust a positive security status is beyond me, but they do!
Nowadays if you have a negative status, and I do, as soon as you turn up in Local, any possible target that's awake either warps to the instant safety of a station, the nearest gate to high sec or logs off completely. My local 0.4 is now virtually a 1.0 with jaspet and that aint right.
|
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 17:30:00 -
[83]
I say remove local on the test server and see how things work out over there. As a solo pirate this could be interesting
Sig Nerf - Cortes
I declare war on ISD!
You don't stand a chance  -Karl
|
Mara Quinn
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 17:32:00 -
[84]
I think an answer was given to the problem close to the start..
Ships have a button to disconnect the datalink, turn off transponders etc etc.
By using the market etc, you are listed in local for a period of time.
If police, npc's etc see you, you are listed in local for a period of time.
Maybe 0.1 => Keep normal local, aswell as Sov constellations?..
Finally, a count of how many ppl are in system, which could be supplied by the gate(s) (rp).
Alliance / Corp members should show up in local to each other also.. RP element being the gates supplied the info to friendlys only...
|
Xoria Krint
The Movement
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 17:53:00 -
[85]
This is a great idea. PATCH NOW PLX!
---
My Movies
|
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 18:06:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
I say remove local on the test server and see how things work out over there. As a solo pirate this could be interesting
How many pilots do mine for hours on end in SiSi? How many free roaming gankers are out there? Oh right ... podding yields a nice ban ...
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Worry
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 18:07:00 -
[87]
Another option would be as follows.
1)I am in local alone ratting.
2)Someone jumps in- I see a unknown player icon
3)I hit scanner- all known friendly players with mutual standing are checked against my personal, corp & alliance list. If I know them the portrait pops up.
4)Oh Noes! I do not know them!
5)I safespot, run scanner and see a buzzard on scan dropping probes.
6)I run to second inline safe and align for gate.
7)Local fills up with unknown icons as I get up to speed.
8)Buzzard uncloaks as I see mixed fleet of cruisers and hacs dropping out of warp.
9)As each ship warps in the portrait appears in local.
To add depth to this players could keep a database of ôknown ship sigsö. This means if I pass the raven named SSbadguy2007 at a gate I know the ship and the pilot. If that ship jumps in and is scanned by me then I know who is in local with me but not until then.
In short players could keep a list of friendlies and hostiles that match against shiptype as well as ôfriendly broadcastsö û we still see when local gets a population spike. Eliminating local would be great but I still want some kind of population counter on my scanner that tells me the system is filling up.
Just a few ideasà.
|
Promon Delnai
Scorn.
Sani Khal'Vecna
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 18:15:00 -
[88]
Problem is a lot of these ideas might be good for a certain profession, but theyd utterly break other ones.
Worry has some decent ideas but the whole "check people against a server side list, every time" would likely result in bone-crushing lag, especially for people in empire.
________________
|
Dirtball
Kemono.
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 18:50:00 -
[89]
Have the ( ) number in local change but you just dont know who.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
BurnHard
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 19:09:00 -
[90]
A plan for getting rid of local?
(1) Allow players to deploy sentries at gates - sentry alerts player when it attacks something (i.e. something not blue)
(2) Remove all asteroid and ice fields, make all fields appear by exploration only in random regional locations - or make them truly system-wide (with some nice GFX) but require some probing to find valuable seams.
(3) Allow players to scan the other side of a gate
.... just for starters ....
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |