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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
80
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Posted - 2016.05.04 21:46:33 -
[301] - Quote
Alexander Otium wrote:I have been saying this stuff for weeks now and everyone kept brushing it off. Citadels are not cost effective as a defensive asset and require a boost to their damage, particularly the bombs (including the neutbomb, its application is too weak).
It should be at least as expensive to destroy a defensive asset in a pitched battle as it is to construct the defensive asset. That's my opinion on how expensive or difficult it should be to destroy a Citadel.
Because everyone else understands the common sense of having a supporting fleet to back up the Citadel, instead of incessantly asking for personal Death Stars that can wipe out fleets on their own.
Stop thinking in terms of DPS and start thinking in terms of the overall utilities a Citadel - A SPACE STATION - is supposed to provide. Citadels are priced as such because they are expected to replace Outposts, and serve similar functions to the older Player-owned Stations, not be a player's personal armed bunker.
They are meant to support a Corporation and/or Alliance by being a place where all their assets are held. That's why they are so priced.
If your corporation or Alliance cannot commit to the defense of your assets, that is as good as saying you don't deserve a Citadel in the first place.
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Aurare Bel
Continuous Frequency Deviations
0
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Posted - 2016.05.05 05:23:45 -
[302] - Quote
Just gonna throw this out here, if one has fighters deployed while in control of a citadel and for whatever reason, leaves that position, thus causing the fighters to be disconnected. As far as i can tell, there is no way to reconnect them, without having to haul a indy to each group to scoop. Thanks in advance. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2430
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Posted - 2016.05.05 05:40:42 -
[303] - Quote
Aurare Bel wrote:Just gonna throw this out here, if one has fighters deployed while in control of a citadel and for whatever reason, leaves that position, thus causing the fighters to be disconnected. As far as i can tell, there is no way to reconnect them, without having to haul a indy to each group to scoop. Thanks in advance.
the hot key for reconnect still seems to work
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2430
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Posted - 2016.05.05 05:42:20 -
[304] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Alexander Otium wrote:I have been saying this stuff for weeks now and everyone kept brushing it off. Citadels are not cost effective as a defensive asset and require a boost to their damage, particularly the bombs (including the neutbomb, its application is too weak).
It should be at least as expensive to destroy a defensive asset in a pitched battle as it is to construct the defensive asset. That's my opinion on how expensive or difficult it should be to destroy a Citadel. Perhaps the long recognised general rules of war should be applied.... That a minor fortification needs a 3:1 ratio of attacker to defender to guarantee success and a major fortification 5:1 - with the attacker expecting to take not dissimilar losses. Ergo - a properly managed and setup Medium Citadel (worth 1b for example) would be expected to kill 3b in ships - a 180b XL then would normally kill some ~900b of ships. Citadels, the structure(s) designed for defence, would be completely killable - but would require the attacking fleet to commit and take losses.
because large established groups should be invincible to new smaller ones
Citadel worm hole tax
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2221
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Posted - 2016.05.05 06:02:02 -
[305] - Quote
I would like station interiors/captains quarters to be in citadels, and I doubt it would be difficult to implement... Why is it not being included?
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Aurare Bel
Continuous Frequency Deviations
0
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Posted - 2016.05.05 06:09:45 -
[306] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Aurare Bel wrote:Just gonna throw this out here, if one has fighters deployed while in control of a citadel and for whatever reason, leaves that position, thus causing the fighters to be disconnected. As far as i can tell, there is no way to reconnect them, without having to haul a indy to each group to scoop. Thanks in advance. the hot key for reconnect still seems to work Not in my case http://imgbox.com/yD8Y1mpr |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2432
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Posted - 2016.05.05 06:11:48 -
[307] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I would like station interiors/captains quarters to be in citadels, and I doubt it would be difficult to implement... Why is it not being included?
probably because ccp didn't want to look into the UI and didn't want to have ppl needing to click that button twice to get to the camera they wanted.
but i agree this would be nice.
i would also like it if we could pick our interiors (even if its just for the hangers and cq is never added) so i can have my citadel with a gal/amarr station hanger
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2432
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Posted - 2016.05.05 06:12:37 -
[308] - Quote
Aurare Bel wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Aurare Bel wrote:Just gonna throw this out here, if one has fighters deployed while in control of a citadel and for whatever reason, leaves that position, thus causing the fighters to be disconnected. As far as i can tell, there is no way to reconnect them, without having to haul a indy to each group to scoop. Thanks in advance. the hot key for reconnect still seems to work Not in my case http://imgbox.com/yD8Y1mpr
hmm send in a bug report i haven't been able to test since things left sisi and moved onto tq
Citadel worm hole tax
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Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
69
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Posted - 2016.05.05 11:19:35 -
[309] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:......................... because large established groups should be invincible to new smaller ones
Then you should absolutely re-think your rather biased point of view.....
For the current situation means that 'smaller groups' have little to no chance against the 'larger established groups'. For if the smaller manages the not inconsiderable feat of establishing its own base, then the larger can really easily blow it up.
Don't be silly and just look at my affiliation - read what is written instead
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2434
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Posted - 2016.05.05 12:28:08 -
[310] - Quote
O.o i hadn't even looked at your affiliation. i was talking as a small group who would like to be able to siege these if the defender doesn't bother to show up.
no matter what the smaller group is going to be in trouble if they get sieged by a major force
Citadel worm hole tax
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
432
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Posted - 2016.05.05 14:25:03 -
[311] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:O.o i hadn't even looked at your affiliation. i was talking as a small group who would like to be able to siege these if the defender doesn't bother to show up.
no matter what the smaller group is going to be in trouble if they get sieged by a major force
That's not really the issue though. The issue is how little it takes. 5 man corp throws a citadel up, 6 people can knock it down.. and how hard is it to find 6 peolple when you have 3 guys meeting the dps minumum and 2 logi tanking it (assuming no ecm). At least in HS there has to be a wardec.
Oh the corp is forming up a defense fleet in low, null, wh? Great, say the words 'we have pew' in any number of channels and you'll have peolle coming out of the wordwork... and it takes no great effort on the attackers part to make thaf happen.
My only point is that atfacking medium pos should be at least as difficult as attacking a large especially considering someone has to actually sit in it and t bhai us not be avail in a ship. If I can kick someones sand castle with 6 dudes compared to the 10-20 a large pos takes... then why would people bother? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
278
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:36:44 -
[312] - Quote
I think this is one of those things CCP throws out there not knowing for certain how people will adapt to it.
Maybe 5 guys are not supposed to run a Citadel? Maybe sometime in the future another citadel-like structure will come up more closely resembling a medium POS (like a SMALL citadel) ? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2440
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Posted - 2016.05.05 21:32:04 -
[313] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:O.o i hadn't even looked at your affiliation. i was talking as a small group who would like to be able to siege these if the defender doesn't bother to show up.
no matter what the smaller group is going to be in trouble if they get sieged by a major force That's not really the issue though. The issue is how little it takes. 5 man corp throws a citadel up, 6 people can knock it down.. and how hard is it to find 6 peolple when you have 3 guys meeting the dps minumum and 2 logi tanking it (assuming no ecm). At least in HS there has to be a wardec. Oh the corp is forming up a defense fleet in low, null, wh? Great, say the words 'we have pew' in any number of channels and you'll have peolle coming out of the wordwork... and it takes no great effort on the attackers part to make thaf happen. My only point is that atfacking medium pos should be at least as difficult as attacking a large especially considering someone has to actually sit in it and t bhai us not be avail in a ship. If I can kick someones sand castle with 6 dudes compared to the 10-20 a large pos takes... then why would people bother?
why would you assume no ECM when a citadel can kick out very powerful ecm i feel like ppl are only looking at the DPS of citadel missile launchers and nothing else. a M citadel is far more defensible than a large POS
Citadel worm hole tax
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Alexander Otium
Oasis Freeport Wormhole Citadel
14
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Posted - 2016.05.05 23:59:18 -
[314] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Noxisia Arkana wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:O.o i hadn't even looked at your affiliation. i was talking as a small group who would like to be able to siege these if the defender doesn't bother to show up.
no matter what the smaller group is going to be in trouble if they get sieged by a major force That's not really the issue though. The issue is how little it takes. 5 man corp throws a citadel up, 6 people can knock it down.. and how hard is it to find 6 peolple when you have 3 guys meeting the dps minumum and 2 logi tanking it (assuming no ecm). At least in HS there has to be a wardec. Oh the corp is forming up a defense fleet in low, null, wh? Great, say the words 'we have pew' in any number of channels and you'll have peolle coming out of the wordwork... and it takes no great effort on the attackers part to make thaf happen. My only point is that atfacking medium pos should be at least as difficult as attacking a large especially considering someone has to actually sit in it and t bhai us not be avail in a ship. If I can kick someones sand castle with 6 dudes compared to the 10-20 a large pos takes... then why would people bother? why would you assume no ECM when a citadel can kick out very powerful ecm i feel like ppl are only looking at the DPS of citadel missile launchers and nothing else. a M citadel is far more defensible than a large POS
With a Fortizar you can only jam 5 people, max, and that's assuming you don't fit any other kind of E-war like painters or scrams. So they bring 7 Guardians instead of 2, five get jammed, and you can still outrep all of the Citadel's damage for a fraction of the cost.
Aside from that, a Fortizar is just not cost-effective as a defensive asset. You can get much more defensive power by spending the ISK on tech 1 battleships. You can buy ~90 fully-fitted battleships for the price of a fully-fitted Fortizar, and you can use 4-5 of them to do more damage than a Citadel, with the advantage of mobility so you can use it offensively as well. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2441
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Posted - 2016.05.06 01:45:43 -
[315] - Quote
then its a good thing they don't have to defend themselves alone huh
Citadel worm hole tax
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
433
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Posted - 2016.05.06 17:44:50 -
[316] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:then its a good thing they don't have to defend themselves alone huh
You seem to fixate on one piece of every argument to prove your point... you could just acknowledge that I assumed no ecm tomade the conversation easier and for comparison purposes. I mean do we want to get into scram strength per ecm (fyi citadel is signifacantly lower).
Structures aren't meant to be owned by 5 man corps? We need to take a step back here and assume that we're using examples... great lets say its a 20 man corp, or 50 casual players.. or 1000 risk adverse bears. The point is, the structure is **** in comparison to the tools we have to defend ourselves now, why are we paying more for less?
There is 0 incentive for me as a wh corp to pull down my large and pop up a medium citadel. Can you give me one good reason outside of corporate theft? |
Nikolai Mazinkov
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.05.07 21:10:26 -
[317] - Quote
I agree that a citadel should have better DPS and defensive capability. A thing that is that huge and expensive should be more capable. Look at a Large citadel vs a Supercarrier, carrier, dread, or battleship. You should get more ability rom thestructure, even if that means scrapping or changing the DPS mitigation system and vulnerability windows.
Also, I couldn't find in here or elsewhere if there is a standings-based docking system or if you can't dock at a citadel if you are at war with the owner, anyone know?
"Momento Mori", Remember That You Must Die
www.rvbeve.com
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Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
70
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Posted - 2016.05.07 21:46:36 -
[318] - Quote
Nikolai Mazinkov wrote:.......................
Also, I couldn't find in here or elsewhere if there is a standings-based docking system or if you can't dock at a citadel if you are at war with the owner, anyone know?
You can set up discrete access groups, which can be from an individual to whole groups.
I've not yet tried this myself, but I think you can even deny all your enemy's Corps and Alliances and still even let individual bad guys in if you so wished.....
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
376
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Posted - 2016.05.08 03:32:29 -
[319] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Nikolai Mazinkov wrote:.......................
Also, I couldn't find in here or elsewhere if there is a standings-based docking system or if you can't dock at a citadel if you are at war with the owner, anyone know? You can set up discrete access groups, which can be from an individual to whole groups. I've not yet tried this myself, but I think you can even deny all your enemy's Corps and Alliances and still even let individual bad guys in if you so wished.....
And then let them worry about that "spy" that you let in by "accidentally".
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Nikolai Mazinkov
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.05.09 20:20:11 -
[320] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Nikolai Mazinkov wrote:.......................
Also, I couldn't find in here or elsewhere if there is a standings-based docking system or if you can't dock at a citadel if you are at war with the owner, anyone know? You can set up discrete access groups, which can be from an individual to whole groups. I've not yet tried this myself, but I think you can even deny all your enemy's Corps and Alliances and still even let individual bad guys in if you so wished.....
Fantastic, that is exactly the answer I was hoping for :)
Thanks
"Momento Mori", Remember That You Must Die
www.rvbeve.com
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1204
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Posted - 2016.05.13 00:36:16 -
[321] - Quote
It looks like the Deep Space Nine project had a flew and became Empok' Nor.
Yeay-ish.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
8
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Posted - 2016.05.14 01:31:57 -
[322] - Quote
Please, don't bother phasing POSs out anymore. |
aldhura
Bartledannians
41
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Posted - 2016.05.15 19:37:27 -
[323] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I would like station interiors/captains quarters to be in citadels, and I doubt it would be difficult to implement... Why is it not being included?
Why do you want it ? What do you actually do with with it ? This was the start to WIS, which thankfully has been abandoned, its a space ship game.. you need to undock to fly a spaceship.
Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting
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Alexander Otium
Oasis Freeport Wormhole Citadel
21
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Posted - 2016.05.17 08:37:12 -
[324] - Quote
Citadels are unaffected by wormhole effects, correct? does that also apply to the missiles and guided bombs fired by Citadels? |
Auron Orlenard
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2
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Posted - 2016.05.22 17:45:04 -
[325] - Quote
Dear CCP, we demmand citadel firework launchers+charges. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3480
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Posted - 2016.05.29 20:42:20 -
[326] - Quote
I agree with the above, Citadels should have a way to celebrate, make a module for 'disco mode' or a weapons package and a am sure poeple would buy and use them.
boots n pants n boots n pants n . . ..
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2690
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Posted - 2016.05.30 04:43:23 -
[327] - Quote
make it a a FDS firework delight system :p
Citadel worm hole tax
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
512
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Posted - 2016.06.01 00:39:11 -
[328] - Quote
All i want is my CQ in citadels. and a pony.
also get rid of that uselss external view.. and add CQ instead. Would be trivial to implement surely. Everything is already ingame and working.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where eve is placed... not in cave..." | zoonr-Korsairs | QFT !
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
512
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Posted - 2016.06.01 00:43:19 -
[329] - Quote
.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where eve is placed... not in cave..." | zoonr-Korsairs | QFT !
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Yuuto Amakawa
Freeport Expedition Association
0
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Posted - 2016.06.03 12:15:16 -
[330] - Quote
Hi:
First time posting on the forums, so thanks for all that you do! I was curious if there were any plans to allow Citadel owners to fit their structures during the initial 15 minute vulnerability window after anchoring? Currently, it is impossible to fit Citadels during that time. This, to me, is there to encourage people to show up to actually defend things, which is the point of course.
However, my corporation is very small (5 members and actively recruiting), and it is impossible for us to defend a structure without it being able to provide fire support in low, null, or wormhole space. As can be expected, there are roaming gangs just looking for sand castles to knock over outside of high-sec (that's cool, this IS Eve, so I expect that). However, we cannot hold our own against much larger more well equipped fleets who understandably see that first window as an easy kill.
Being a young corporation, many of our members are newer players who want to begin exploring other parts of the game outside of high-sec and have a base of operations they can fall back on. POS structures online faster, but are being phased out. I always believed that the spirit of Citadels, particularly the more affordable Astrahus class, was designed to give small, but active, groups outside of the larger corporations a fighting chance provided that they show up to defend the place.
I don't want that initial vulnerability window to go away. I am just suggesting that anyone who shows up to knock the castle over gets a good fight for those 15 minutes. Feel free to share your thoughts. |
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