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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Locke Deathroe
Clan 86 Antesignani Alliance
20
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Posted - 2015.10.30 22:47:27 -
[61] - Quote
Poranius Fisc[/quote wrote: They will probably get removed and you may or may not get reimbursed for them.
You sir should work for CCP, you have the vagueness down pat.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2654
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Posted - 2015.10.30 23:14:27 -
[62] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote: What happens if a pilot was logged off in an XL citadel in a Titan and the citadel was blown up with the pilot still in it?
Did your corpse and the Titan get hauled away by interbus? or do you log in where the citadel was...
Maybe docking at this stage isn't as safe as you think.
Personally id like to See Larges and Extra Larges take the place of outposts and tie into Perma sov with the option of tearing them down if you are the owner / sov holder. It's a lot of isk to throw away for someones killmail.
Then the titan pilot will get laughed at. You can dock, stretch your legs etc Personally, I will undock, tether and safe log prior to logging out for the night Actually I believe CCP have gone back on making your current ship & pod getting blown up on Citadel destruction. Because they realised how stupid it was to be safer logging off in open space than inside a citadel.
And you can remove Citadels, they are not 'permanent' like Outposts. It just takes time and they get a vulnerability window at the end of the removal process where anyone can come shoot them. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
479
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Posted - 2015.10.31 00:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
ThePiachu Avar wrote:Questions!1) CCP Ytterbium wrote:
X-Large Citadels: all ships can dock. [/list] Does this mean that supers and titans can dock? The keynote from Vegas was rather confusing on that part, implying that they would be only able to tether. 2) Is there a limit to what system X-Large Citadels can be anchored in? Say, "only in nullsec / w-space", or "nullsec, w-space, lowsec", or will everyone be able to place them everywhere? You do realise that you just made it really really clear that you have read nothing about anything *anywhere*. Seriously. Can we get posts just replaced with RTFM? Please?
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Nafensoriel
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
155
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Posted - 2015.10.31 01:40:57 -
[64] - Quote
Never assume any BPO will be reimbursed or converted to a new item. CCPs stance repeatedly has been "youve gotten use out of it" as a reason for lack of reimbursement.
There is, however, an extremely good reason for this stance. It levels the playing field for the new mechanic. While it may seem unfair to lose all of the hard work and time it would be even more unfair to newer players to release a system and then make them compete directly against perfect BPOs. |
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
1078
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Posted - 2015.10.31 06:19:40 -
[65] - Quote
Nafensoriel wrote:
Actually this is quite simple to answer.
Wormholes allow an incredible amount of income for personal users. No the corps directly don't make isk like moongoo in nullsec but individually you pull the highest isk per hour in the game potentially. The downside to this advantage is risk. You can lose your stuff.. and you cant use all the same toys as everyone else. You have to work a little to get that potential and you have to fight to keep it.
A citadel with this level of infinitely scalable isk generation allows a WH corp to seriously exploit the transfer system. One C5 site is enough to buy, deploy, and destroy a small citadel. Safe 100% risk free movement of your stuff to NSpace for a 15% tax? Do you see now why item transference in a WH is a terrible and literally game breaking idea?
I was thinking more that they should have either kept the only able to transfer to another citadel in the same system (which requires putting up another structure that can be destroyed), or randomly dump your crap around the system, and you have 20 days to pick it up before it goes poof, and if it's now a hostile system, that could be hazardous. The killmails from people trying to cut their losses could drive further conflict. Like blapping that guy who comes back to salvage and loot his own wreck. |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2015.10.31 17:28:04 -
[66] - Quote
Locke Deathroe wrote:They will probably get removed and you may or may not get reimbursed for them.[/quote wrote:
You sir should work for CCP, you have the vagueness down pat.
Look at the character creation date. I've been listening to it for a while... nm.. this isnt my main.. HE"s been around for a long while. |
Locke Deathroe
Clan 86 Antesignani Alliance
20
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Posted - 2015.11.01 00:52:33 -
[67] - Quote
Nafensoriel wrote:Never assume any BPO will be reimbursed or converted to a new item. CCPs stance repeatedly has been "youve gotten use out of it" as a reason for lack of reimbursement.
There is, however, an extremely good reason for this stance. It levels the playing field for the new mechanic. While it may seem unfair to lose all of the hard work and time it would be even more unfair to newer players to release a system and then make them compete directly against perfect BPOs.
I wouldn't expect to end up with the new BPO fully researched, that I do understand. It's more a matter of every time they remove something they don't give you what the market cost was for the item based on when they were bought, but what they are worth at the time of replacement. The problem with that is the second they say they are getting rid of something the price falls so fast it's a joke. I've had friends quit over that very fact and see many people in Eve facing the same choice over this given how much ISK we are talking for those that made investments in complete sets.
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Nafensoriel
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
157
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Posted - 2015.11.01 03:43:55 -
[68] - Quote
Understandable point of view.. but in CCPs case they take the lesser of two evils. If they provided market cost then they would have to establish what market cost was.. are we talking peak value, 6 month value, that one expansion in 2006 value? It rapidly becomes an opinion piece that will never satisfy a significant portion of the player base. Additionally if you convert that value to isk and materials you create other major problems. What if I just finished training the BPO to max? Is it fair I get full value compared to a guy who maxed it out 5 years ago? The same applies to minerals as it does to leveling the playing field. A sudden infusion of wealth as reimbursement can never be balanced enough to not be unfair to a majority. This is why the logical and fair thing to do is just say "you've gotten use" and remove them.
Even consider for a moment.. You mention people leaving the game over a lost item in this manner.. Statistically consider that while that is a sad case and rather extreme it is still a very insignificant majority of the player base affected by the change.
First rule of Dev Work or GM Work... Do what gives you the least amount of hate mail. |
Cynica Deetric
Quantum Singularities Half Massed
3
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Posted - 2015.11.01 06:04:31 -
[69] - Quote
I would like to know why we can't have both POSs and citadels?
I would think giving player more options not less is a better idea. (CCPlease keep both)
Also have any of the DEVs taken the time to site down and make a comparison as to what POSs offer/cost vs Citadels? (compaired to the "little" guy/corp) (As it stands I would like to keep my POS over buying a citadel or living in a corp citadel) |
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
1078
|
Posted - 2015.11.01 06:26:52 -
[70] - Quote
Cynica Deetric wrote:I would like to know why we can't have both POSs and citadels?
I would think giving player more options not less is a better idea. (CCPlease keep both)
Also have any of the DEVs taken the time to site down and make a comparison as to what POSs offer/cost vs Citadels? (compaired to the "little" guy/corp) (As it stands I would like to keep my POS over buying a citadel or living in a corp citadel) Mainly because POSes are terrible pieces of **** that are complicated to manage for players and have a horrendous mess of legacy code and should have been replaced years ago.
The better question is why the new Structure sizes and costs don't line up very well with the sizes POSes come in. |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2655
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Posted - 2015.11.01 08:54:43 -
[71] - Quote
Locke Deathroe wrote:
I wouldn't expect to end up with the new BPO fully researched, that I do understand. It's more a matter of every time they remove something they don't give you what the market cost was for the item based on when they were bought, but what they are worth at the time of replacement. The problem with that is the second they say they are getting rid of something the price falls so fast it's a joke. I've had friends quit over that very fact and see many people in Eve facing the same choice over this given how much ISK we are talking for those that made investments in complete sets.
If they are going to reimburse what it cost they should also take away all the isk you made or saved with it since you bought it. Seems only fair that if you want the isk from back years ago you don't get to keep any profit made since.
More likely they will reimburse based on the current research costs to get it to ME 10 TE 20 if you did that. Or whatever ME & TE you did. Since the research costs now provide a very concrete value for what a researched blueprint is actually worth. Which in a lot of cases will be far far more than you ever paid for it, and certainly vastly more than it cost you to research it at the time if you did it yourself. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2063
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Posted - 2015.11.01 13:33:12 -
[72] - Quote
I have a small concern with the deployment of the citadels: The current version of having the 3D mesh with the interior structure of the citadel showing translucent in the placement process is in my opinion nothing but a useless fancy. Judging by the video footage available of the placement of an M Citadel, it is hard to discern what is what on the structure even on that "small" version of it, especially where the undocks are or where they face.
Instead of this useless fancy, I would like to see clear and more opaque mesh that really only shows the outer shell of the structure and undocks displayed in a different color or some other means to highlight where they are, and in addition their undock direction indicated with arrows.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Gabriel Karade
Noir. Mercenary Coalition
287
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Posted - 2015.11.01 13:46:43 -
[73] - Quote
My concern is that the functionality provided by an XL-SMA (or even starbase forcefields) hasn't be replicated in this proposal, beyond the gold plated XL-Citadel option.
This is a major change to anyone who wants to be able to 'stretch their legs' for short periods outside a steel coffin. Is this intended?
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Gabriel Karade
Noir. Mercenary Coalition
287
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Posted - 2015.11.01 13:51:09 -
[74] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:I'm going to unpin the other structures threads and link them all here as we are running out of space in this forum subsection.
Well last dev post in any of them WAS some months ago. Any idea when we might hear any more thoughts on specialized structures? Hopefully you are thinking where to go next before citadels launch, so you can roll new stuff out without too much delay === I am wondering why you are treating W-space ENTIRELY differently from other areas of space where asset safety is concerned. It really isn't fair to let every single other area recover the entirety of their personal assets while people in W-space lose EVERYTHING. What makes W-space so special that it makes you lose everything? Certainly you can add some sort of asset recovery system that still results in some danger whether it exposes you, or requires you to plop a new structure. At the same time, 100% of assets back seems surprisingly generous for deep null Kenneth Feld wrote: Why do you NEED to dock those capitals?
Why is tethering not enough? You can tether up to Titans at a medium
Because it means you can't get out of your ship if you want it to remain safe. Hmm, maybe we have different definitions of safe Safe logging from tethered will be inherently more safe than docked, if you are docked and it gets blown up, you have to pay 15% to get your stuff back unless you build a new citadel He's referring to being able to get out of a ship for short periods of time, which otherwise cannot dock - tethering doesn't apply to unmanned ships in the way it has been described. This is completely different to existing mechanics.
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
315
|
Posted - 2015.11.01 14:33:54 -
[75] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:My concern is that the functionality provided by an XL-SMA (or even starbase forcefields) hasn't be replicated in this proposal, beyond the gold plated XL-Citadel option.
This is a major change to anyone who wants to be able to 'stretch their legs' for short periods outside a steel coffin. Is this intended?
We don't know yet
They sorta kinda have to dock in XL assembly arrays cause they will be built there, they should be significantly cheaper (But with less defense) than a citadel |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
508
|
Posted - 2015.11.01 21:00:56 -
[76] - Quote
better yet, why isnt this stuff released yet? ive seen this crap on the forums for MONTHS now.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Nafensoriel
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
158
|
Posted - 2015.11.01 21:22:51 -
[77] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:better yet, why isnt this stuff released yet? ive seen this crap on the forums for MONTHS now. Because it only takes seconds to do a few hundred thousand lines of code, create detailed hundred thousand poly models, and create custom texture maps for things right?
I bet you get pissed at McDonalds for taking 60 seconds to cook your burger too. |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2015.11.01 21:59:06 -
[78] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:My concern is that the functionality provided by an XL-SMA (or even starbase forcefields) hasn't be replicated in this proposal, beyond the gold plated XL-Citadel option.
This is a major change to anyone who wants to be able to 'stretch their legs' for short periods outside a steel coffin. Is this intended?
Also, does this satisfy replacing all outposts as well?
Perhaps L's and XL's might be better purposed and a break-downable outpost that can be flipped with entosis, but if the enemy flips it, your stuff is required to be shipped out, or you pick it up someplace else for that 15% fee.
Why the huge push for rediculous killmails? congrats.. you killed the XL.. now theres no more outposts. If you wnat to hold this system, you need to build something fast.
You want to set up what? How many cap's are limited in a medium structure tether? |
Cynica Deetric
Quantum Singularities Half Massed
3
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Posted - 2015.11.01 23:37:10 -
[79] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Cynica Deetric wrote:I would like to know why we can't have both POSs and citadels?
I would think giving player more options not less is a better idea. (CCPlease keep both)
Also have any of the DEVs taken the time to site down and make a comparison as to what POSs offer/cost vs Citadels? (compaired to the "little" guy/corp) (As it stands I would like to keep my POS over buying a citadel or living in a corp citadel) Mainly because POSes are terrible pieces of **** that are complicated to manage for players and have a horrendous mess of legacy code and should have been replaced years ago. The better question is why the new Structure sizes and costs don't line up very well with the sizes POSes come in.
Most of what you said is OPINION, could POSs be improved yes. I do not feel that POSs are a pieces of ****. On the management aspect of POSs I don't think it is compicated but I don't think it is as effective as some players would like it to be.
I feel that your question is valad and I wouldn't mind the extra cost IF they kept POSs in the game however if they are going to take them out later on down the road they should cost the same as what they are replacing.
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
509
|
Posted - 2015.11.02 00:22:19 -
[80] - Quote
Nafensoriel wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:better yet, why isnt this stuff released yet? ive seen this crap on the forums for MONTHS now. Because it only takes seconds to do a few hundred thousand lines of code, create detailed hundred thousand poly models, and create custom texture maps for things right? I bet you get pissed at McDonalds for taking 60 seconds to cook your burger too. these objects have been in demand for years. not months years. Yah i went to mcdonalds and pre ordered a bigmac for 3 months from now. so no, since the last few years of mostly no new updates, no it doesnt take THAT long to code some new buildings.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Nafensoriel
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
164
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Posted - 2015.11.02 01:38:32 -
[81] - Quote
Might want to google that before you assume...
CCP is currently rewriting code that has existed since the server was switched on. That isnt trivial. Its not simple... and no you cant do it in a few months.
What you are literally complaining about is akin to taking your car to the mechanic for a complete engine replacement and complaining that it isn't done in an hour. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
479
|
Posted - 2015.11.02 09:12:29 -
[82] - Quote
The main reason we are hearing about this soo soon in the dev cycle is because they want feedback.
And yea is DOES take that long to "add a few structures" when they behave and operate in complexity different ways.
Typical Junior dev comment right there. I wrote my tic tac toe assignment game in just 2 days. Adding all that structures is like only a few weeks of work. Art departments can just give me the models sometime by Tuesday right?
Yea right.
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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ThePiachu Avar
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.11.03 07:59:58 -
[83] - Quote
Question - will the Structure components and Structures themselves be constructable in POS assembly arrays, or only stations / outposts and eventually citadels? |
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2015.11.03 13:08:03 -
[84] - Quote
I couldn't find this info anywhere or probably it has not been mentioned before:
- Will citadel(s) decay in space if not used / accessed, in the same way mobile depots do? - In case they will / do, will we be able to use let's say entosis link to capture abandoned citadels? - In case we wont be able to use entosis links, what will be their fate is abandoned? |
Soldarius
Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore
1412
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 14:50:27 -
[85] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:I couldn't find this info anywhere or probably it has not been mentioned before:
- Will citadel(s) decay in space if not used / accessed, in the same way mobile depots do? - In case they will / do, will we be able to use let's say entosis link to capture abandoned citadels? - In case we wont be able to use entosis links, what will be their fate is abandoned?
Space, and not simply high sec, but also low and wh space, is littered by dead sticks that have too many HPs to be destroyed with ease if abandoned. Even a medium citadel need to pass 2 reinforced states from my understanding regardless the owner is active or not, and considering that ccp stated we will be able to see all the citadel / structures in the system, wont we be ending up with a massive amount of citadels in this list, with very little really operative?
We had dead sticks for years, are we going to have ghost station for the future?
All the Citadels are destructible. If you want to remove an abandoned citadel, blow it up. Since it's abandoned, it should be trivial.
It has already been stated that the old structures (outposts and POSes) are being removed. So any dead sticks will magically vanish.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
725
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Posted - 2015.11.03 17:06:19 -
[86] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:All the Citadels are destructible. If you want to remove an abandoned citadel, blow it up. Since it's abandoned, it should be trivial.
It has already been stated that the old structures (outposts and POSes) are being removed. So any dead sticks will magically vanish.
There should be a mechanic for unused structures to become more vulnerable; perhaps if no one docks / tethers at them for XX days the damage mitigation cap is lifted or the structure is vulnerable 24/7.
Remember that this is a long-standing complaint about poses, and new structures are even worse. At least poses ran out of fuel eventually and didn't keep entering new reinforcement timers without owner interaction. As things stand right now, Citadels are shaping up to be far worse in terms of abandoned space debris that starbases ever were. |
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2015.11.03 17:12:11 -
[87] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:All the Citadels are destructible. If you want to remove an abandoned citadel, blow it up. Since it's abandoned, it should be trivial.
It has already been stated that the old structures (outposts and POSes) are being removed. So any dead sticks will magically vanish.
Yet, dead sticks are everywhere, none is taking care of them as there's no real reason: free moons are everywhere, you don't need multiple POS for your jobs and why destroy the starbase control tower when you can simply destroy everything around it?
Now, a medium citadel present way more defenses than a dead stick, don't misunderstand me, I'm not afraid of a ghost station or of the fact it might or might not abandoned, I'm afraid we are going to have a lot more ghost citadels instead of the actual dead sticks.
If people are shying away from the grind of killing a dead stick, why should they be grind a ghost citadel? When I attacked abandoned POSses, I simply destroyed the research and assembly array, an ammunition assembly array has 50k total HP, a small control tower has a 10mil shield alone, and no, i'm not talking about the force field. After killing everything around the stick I looted all (if there was any) and waltzed away, since the tower at best can drop strontium, surely no fuel since it's offline.
The sheer amount of passive defense of a citadel, plus the fact it repair itself regardless anyone is around, plus the reinforcment timers, plus the fact that after all the grind it could be empty... because remember, thanks to the loot rules of the citadel, most of the assets in it are going to be sent to a station or another citadel, so you will loot only the mats of jobs actually running, but since it's abandoned you wont get any.
Which lead to my concern, is there going to be an inactivity timer that will make them capturable or that will unachor them?
I think it would be totally cool to probe (with combat probes) an abandoned citadel, not listed in the local citadel list, use the entosis link and make it your base. Since this kind of stuff create content, feel free to call it "recycled content". |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2658
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 18:26:18 -
[88] - Quote
Citadels drop loot, a M Citadel will drop on average 350-400 million loot even if dead. That's why you won't see dozens of citadels clustering every system, because they are actually worth attacking. And only require you to bring 4000 DPS.
L Citadels will drop 3.5-4 Billion loot.
So I don't believe any inactivity timer is needed, natural greed will make them vanish in balls of fire, thus also keeping the manufacturing market intact while any capture mechanic will kill the market. Remember they have no passive defences, simply a fairly easy to achieve DPS gate. If it shoots back at you, it's not a dead Citadel. |
Nafensoriel
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
171
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Posted - 2015.11.03 19:47:19 -
[89] - Quote
Everything POS do Citadels to better.. Including dying.
The point Nevyn made is not really being widely discussed yet its very critical to why citadels are better than POS. They will almost always be worth shooting. A stick is a stick.. its a time consuming multiday(if stronted) mess of utter BS. A citadel is a loot pinata that gives a carrot at the end of the grind.
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aldhura
Bartledannians
9
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Posted - 2015.11.03 21:08:40 -
[90] - Quote
I really think the mooring feature doesn't make sense. You are basically stuck in the cap ship. I have read that once you leave the moored ship in become vulnerable and your pod is moored, that will mean, as I read it anyway, you are basically stuck in that capital ship. I don't have one anymore, but means there will be no point in getting one. Something like being able to switch ships for a couple hours will be a better approach.
What will happen to all our current POS's and pos modules? will we get a "free" swap out for the new structures ? or are we now stuck with more junk we can't get rid of?
Bartledannians are recruiting.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6104254#post6104254
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