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No-one should ever disappear under fire

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Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:06:00 - [1] Logoffs are a severe problem, but IMO, the single worst part of it is logging at gates. If you come under fire, you should NOT disappear. Every shot fired against you should reset the logoff timer to 15minutes. No-one should EVER disappear while being fired at. Not ever. --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:08:00 - [2] Agreed. Logging off to avoid combat to begin with may be fine, but logging off should not allow one to escape combat once it has already started. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:13:00 - [3] Edited by: SasRipper on 01/01/2007 15:15:06 & if i jump & crash what I die... I personly feel logg on traps are more of a problem than noobs looging off & a good pvper or group should be able to drop anything none capital before it disappears. \|- Insert witty sig here -\| Save Radar Scanner Man!
Constantine Arcanum Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:13:00 - [4] /signed You would not BELIEVE the amounts of lamers logging off whenever they jump into a bubble.. it's so damn annoying and it needs to be stopped... somehow... I helped - Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1 I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:18:00 - [5] Originally by: SasRipper Edited by: SasRipper on 01/01/2007 15:15:06 & if i jump & crash what I die... I personly feel logg on traps are more of a problem than noobs looging off & a good pvper or group should be able to drop anything none capital before it disappears. Yes, you die. As opposed to what would have happened before, where you would have died unless you mysteriously crashed --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:22:00 - [6] i dunno someone logging off when people are sniping a gate isnt a bad thing. the snipers should be men and tank the sentrys.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i dunno someone logging off when people are sniping a gate isnt a bad thing. the snipers should be men and tank the sentrys. Logoffs make no difference to empire snipers WTF are you on about? --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i dunno someone logging off when people are sniping a gate isnt a bad thing. the snipers should be men and tank the sentrys. Logging off against a sniper is the same as warping away, so there's no difference there, and no problem, and the solution proposed in the first post would not affect that situation either. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Verus Potestas No-one should EVER disappear while being fired at. Not ever. I have some Fraps of my Malediction vs a Ferox that should see the light of day round about now. CCP, look out for it in a few hours.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.01 15:52:00 - [10] The same people who say logging in a bubble is lame, also think that using an alt to scout for them in the first place is also lame! How about some perspective. Players don't have the tools to avoid these things and in many situations that is exactly what they want to do. In many cases, a bubble camp is an I-win button to whoever has setup the camp; especially to lone travelers. It can often stop play for hours or even all evening for someone needing to pass. Best idea when you see one is to log off. If you alt-scouted you would do that in any case before you hit the bubble.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:05:00 - [11] Scouting is just common sense. How much freaking sense would it make for people to do things in Eve without scouting? What we're looking at is metagaming here, and metagaming certainly does NOT include scouting. Can you imagine from a RP perspective (urgh, I can't believe I'm using this argument), people in Eve using scouts? Now imagine them disappearing in the middle of combat. See the difference? So next time, don't say that just because I don't want you to take the easy way out that I think you should be too ***** stupid to scout. One thing has nothing to do with the other, and I'll request that you stay on the damn topic in future. Also, YOU THINK THAT CAMPERS ARE EVIL. CLEARLY YOU DELIBERATELY RUN OVER DOGS AND MACROMINE! --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, **heads, its my text, not yours.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Verus Potestas Scouting is just common sense. How much freaking sense would it make for people to do things in Eve without scouting? What we're looking at is metagaming here, and metagaming certainly does NOT include scouting. Can you imagine from a RP perspective (urgh, I can't believe I'm using this argument), people in Eve using scouts? Now imagine them disappearing in the middle of combat. See the difference? So next time, don't say that just because I don't want you to take the easy way out that I think you should be too ******* stupid to scout. One thing has nothing to do with the other, and I'll request that you stay on the damn topic in future. Also, YOU THINK THAT CAMPERS ARE EVIL. CLEARLY YOU DELIBERATELY RUN OVER DOGS AND MACROMINE! I don't think campers are evil, they just mean I don't play Eve as much because when I run into them I just log and go down the pub. Either I've lost my ship and my pod warps (usually trying manual warp doesn't work too well due to the lag) or I escape and come back later. Are you suggesting I should stay and fight it out with a 4 or 5 - 1 when there is a small chance I could escape - otherwise certain death? You think it's the easy way out? In many circumstances it's the only way out. You have the i-win button. Comprende?
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:22:00 - [13] gate campers should get 15mins added onto there timer every time they shoot someone gate campers should get perma banned everytime they have a nub alt scout in systems around them. must be nice to gank with no risk but expect everyone who travels through to be instant gratification ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own.
D'an Y'eal Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:24:00 - [14] I've never logged to avoid combat, but until you can guarantee no network outages, no ctd's and no lag you are going to have to just accept the fact that online gaming will always have this "log off = no combat" approach
Oogly Boogly	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:27:00 - [15] Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui gate campers should get 15mins added onto there timer every time they shoot someone gate campers should get perma banned everytime they have a nub alt scout in systems around them. must be nice to gank with no risk but expect everyone who travels through to be instant gratification they do get the 15 min timer reset when they shoot and if you think sniping has no risk then you are retarded
Moominer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Dark Shikari Logging off to avoid combat to begin with may be fine, but logging off should not allow one to escape combat once it has already started. How is this "fine" exactly? People logging off in bubbles, people logging off when in cloak at gates. Hell, even people who log off as soon as they see a hostile jump into local? All of these are "before combat has started" and game mechanically log off after 60seconds. The combat timer does not enable itself if a ship is fired at when the pilot is out of game but his ship is still in space space, so anything with large hitpoints is basically immune if up against a few pilots. Oh and by the way, if you probe their log off spot afterwards, the ship doesn't enter game at that point when it relogs. So they can just rinse and repeat. Said it already, will say it again, log off mechanics seriously need looking. The changes in Kali (local showing hostiles immediatly, and the faster probes) are making logging to avoid non-consentual combat common place.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:48:00 - [17] Edited by: Verus Potestas on 01/01/2007 16:48:49 Originally by: BurnHard I don't think campers are evil, they just mean I don't play Eve as much because when I run into them I just log and go down the pub. Either I've lost my ship and my pod warps (usually trying manual warp doesn't work too well due to the lag) or I escape and come back later. Are you suggesting I should stay and fight it out with a 4 or 5 - 1 when there is a small chance I could escape - otherwise certain death? You think it's the easy way out? In many circumstances it's the only way out. You have the i-win button. Comprende? No, YOU have the I-Win button. It looks like this: You press the I-fail button as soon as you jump into a camped gate without sniping. Then, you should die. That's what pressing the I-Fail button does to you. However, you follow it in rapid succession with the I-Win button, God dammit, you survive. If someone is camping a gate, you don't go through or shoot your way through. If you go in unprepared, you should die. That's how it works. No-one should have an "avoid the consequences of my stupidity" button. If you are in a camp that should kill you, without backup, you should sit there thinking about what you should have done differently while you cloak wears down. Then you should explode. Maybe next time you'll scout first. edit: To counter your point. Yes, it's the only way out once you are in that position. However, once you are in that position, there SHOULD BE NO WAY OUT. You should die. K? --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Verus Potestas Logoffs are a severe problem, but IMO, the single worst part of it is logging at gates. If you come under fire, you should NOT disappear. Every shot fired against you should reset the logoff timer to 15minutes. No-one should EVER disappear while being fired at. Not ever. Why not? It's a perfectly valid strategy for escaping gate camps. If you have the right to camp a gate with your T2 ship then I have the right to log out my little mining ship.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Verus Potestas No-one should have an "avoid the consequences of my stupidity" button. If you are in a camp that should kill you, without backup, you should sit there thinking about what you should have done differently while you cloak wears down. Then you should explode. Maybe next time you'll scout first. edit: To counter your point. Yes, it's the only way out once you are in that position. However, once you are in that position, there SHOULD BE NO WAY OUT. You should die. K? You are suggesting that anyone who gets caught at a camp is stupid? These things can go up and dissapear very quickly, especially in empire <-> 0.0 junctions. The only way to know if it's there is to field an ALT-SCOUT. Presumably your next thread will be getting your knickers in a twist about them too. It just shows how stupid and unbalanced the whole camp<->bubble<->interdiction thing is, if you need to use ALTs to avoid them.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Chimu Quien Originally by: Verus Potestas Logoffs are a severe problem, but IMO, the single worst part of it is logging at gates. If you come under fire, you should NOT disappear. Every shot fired against you should reset the logoff timer to 15minutes. No-one should EVER disappear while being fired at. Not ever. Why not? It's a perfectly valid strategy for escaping gate camps. If you have the right to camp a gate with your T2 ship then I have the right to log out my little mining ship. NO IT IS ***** NOT. IT IS NOT VALID. IT NEVER WAS, AND IT NEVER WILL BE. It is exploiting a game mechanic. It makes your ship disappear, right before your very eyes. You can read all about how I got my shiny ship in the Backstory, but there is all there about "the magic miner disappearing trick". Originally by:** BurnHard You are suggesting that anyone who gets caught at a camp is stupid? These things can go up and dissapear very quickly, especially in empire <-> 0.0 junctions. The only way to know if it's there is to field an ALT-SCOUT. Presumably your next thread will be getting your knickers in a twist about them too. It just shows how stupid and unbalanced the whole camp<->bubble<->interdiction thing is, if you need to use ALTs to avoid them. Going into 0.0 is a risk. That's WHY it's 0.0! I have no problem at all with scouts, so stop acting like that's my damn argument. Scouts are how you avoid camps. Alt scouts aren't, and certainly shouldn't be the only type of scout. Sometimes ** happens, and you will get caught at a gate, despite doing everything in your power to prevent it. That happens, but it's bloody rare. It's 0.0. It should happen. happens. ALWAYS happens. If you can't cope with that, try a game where it doesn't matter when happen, because that isn't Eve. The more intel you have, the less chance of happening there is. What I can tell you is that if you jump into a camp which has been there more than 2-3 minutes in a ship which can't handle it, you are doing something wrong. Your ship is forfeit, and you should lose it. Now please shut the up about alt scouts, and talk about logging off. --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, **heads, its my text, not yours.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Verus Potestas Logoffs are a severe problem, but IMO, the single worst part of it is logging at gates. If you come under fire, you should NOT disappear. Every shot fired against you should reset the logoff timer to 15minutes. No-one should EVER disappear while being fired at. Not ever. If something is done against logon traps (although I don't have a slight idea what can be done) then: /absolutely signed Logging off is so ***** lame. Originally by:** Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Chimu Quien Why not? It's a perfectly valid strategy for escaping gate camps. If you have the right to camp a gate with your T2 ship then I have the right to log out my little mining ship. Consider this. You log off. Your ship takes a few seconds to get up to speed to warp. During that interval, I place a stack of scramble on you and rip your shield off. You still warp off. You can even log into an alt on the same account for good measure. How is that fair?
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Originally by: Chimu Quien Why not? It's a perfectly valid strategy for escaping gate camps. If you have the right to camp a gate with your T2 ship then I have the right to log out my little mining ship. Consider this. You log off. Your ship takes a few seconds to get up to speed to warp. During that interval, I place a stack of scramble on you and rip your shield off. You still warp off. You can even log into an alt on the same account for good measure. How is that fair? It's fantastic, isn't it? Not really fair that you can prevent me playing by parking up at a gate and flying around in circles for 3 hours, but, you know, if thats the way you want to play...
Moominer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:24:00 - [24] Originally by: BurnHard It's fantastic, isn't it? Not really fair that you can prevent me playing by parking up at a gate and flying around in circles for 3 hours, but, you know, if thats the way you want to play... Firstly, you don't need an alt scout to avoid camps, intelligence from fellow players in your corp alliance. Or, god forbid, go with a real person in a covop/ceptor ahead!? Secondly, logoff mechanic abuse is hardly a valid reason because cry someone gate camped me for 3hours cry. Why not form up and take out their camp? Or do you play the game on your own?
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Moominer Originally by: BurnHard It's fantastic, isn't it? Not really fair that you can prevent me playing by parking up at a gate and flying around in circles for 3 hours, but, you know, if thats the way you want to play... Firstly, you don't need an alt scout to avoid camps, intelligence from fellow players in your corp alliance. Or, god forbid, go with a real person in a covop/ceptor ahead!? Secondly, logoff mechanic abuse is hardly a valid reason because cry someone gate camped me for 3hours cry. Why not form up and take out their camp? Or do you play the game on your own? People do form up and take out camps. Quite often though they can't be arsed. I don't cry when the gate is camped, I just log off and go and do something else. You cry in posts like this that you can't kill every ship that comes your way. Boo hoo muffincakes!
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:30:00 - [26] Originally by: SasRipper Edited by: SasRipper on 01/01/2007 15:15:06 & if i jump & crash what I die... I personly feel logg on traps are more of a problem than noobs looging off & a good pvper or group should be able to drop anything none capital before it disappears. Funnily enough, no, not by what the OP just said. The OP said taht if you get shot before you log, your timer resets. If you crash on jump-in, you'll "log" long before you uncloak and get shot at. If you crash mid battle, its a whole other thing though. That'd just have to be tough ****, though. You can't wreck the whole game's mechanics just "in case" of technical difficulties. Gameplay always has to come first. -----------------------------------------------
Moominer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:31:00 - [27] Originally by: BurnHard People do form up and take out camps. Quite often though they can't be arsed. I don't cry when the gate is camped, I just log off and go and do something else. You cry in posts like this that you can't kill every ship that comes your way. Boo hoo muffincakes! I would hardly call posting reasoned debate regarding people absuing game mechanics, with suggestions how to resolve the problem, crying.
Milkminer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:32:00 - [28] I have one real coment to add to this thread. In 0.0, there is alot of risk and alot of reward. If you dont want to be involved in combat then you should go back and join the 90% of the rest of the playerbase that lives in 0.5 and above. 0.0 is about PvP/Profit/Building something to be proud of (Outposts/Capital ships etc). Its not about avoiding combat and take only the good while avoiding the bad. They go hand in hand, you shouldnt beable to benifit without the risk that is normally assosiated with it. Originally by: John Moscroft Goons are a renewable resource. There are no recruitment problems.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:33:00 - [29] Make bubbles engage the aggression timer as soon as you land inside it if cloaked or not. Ship lovers click here
Thecle Vifargent GandY Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:34:00 - [30] Another year, another whine. Last year was WCS, now its logoff. "Eve online, the world's largest whining universe" Deal with it, adapt, and ask your friends to overscramble it and rip'em to shred.

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