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Dr Einkeisel
Evolution
Band of Brothers
   |
Posted - 2007.01.02 23:42:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Dr Einkeisel on 02/01/2007 23:42:12
 Originally by: Ramblin Man
Originally by: Julia Lycera
If you are *given* access to an opposing sides forum or Vent-TS2 server via deceit or espionage then you have done nothing wrong, legally or morally.
Just as a note, you stressing given is a straw man.
You're being "*given*" access under false pretenses.
Imo, that's more akin to *stealing*.
I dont understand how its under false pretenses, when I am on my BoB char I play the char in bob.
When Iam on my ASCN Char Iam playing on a char in ASCN.
If I partake in corp ops help with the alliance then I am just the an average member.
What I choose to do with my ASCN char be that pass on imformation etc, has nothing to do with my alter ego.
What Iam trying to say is -
When I play as my BoB char, I am in bob roleplaying a pilot in a ship in bob.
When I play as my ASCN Char, Iam roleplaying a pilot in ASCN
What I choose to do with any the imformation I required from either alliance is my own business.
If I have been passed imformation to log onto the forums and onto TS while roleplaying that character, then that is totaly correct since; am I not a member of ASCN? is that not the persona I am roleplaying?
And the same goes if I was to pass imformation about BOB onto ASCN ? Im finding it hard to explain what I mean here hopefully somone will save me from my own confusion 
oh and I know this is about bob and ASCN, I was just using that as an example since its very recent 
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:42:00 -
[122]
Originally by: KIAHicks
Edited by: KIAHicks on 02/01/2007 23:37:15
I don't have any problem with people spying on teamspeak, reading internal forums and in game alliance chat channels so long as they obtained that information by getting a character into the alliance/corp and were then given that information by those that run the alliance/corp.
That is in game, social engineering/trust manipulation which is totally an acceptable part of eve. It makes the game interesting (although some will disagree).
If however the person is not a member of the alliance/corp and has not been granted access to teamspeak/forums or been provided access by a disgruntled opposition member, then that is where i would draw the line.
Hacking, brute force or socially that does not meet the above criteria would be objectionable to me. NOTE socially does not include ingame social manipulation which I don't have a major objection to (although I still agree alts are too easy to use, there isn't much we or ccp can do to stop that. People would just buy multiple accounts and if C.C matching was done, they'd just have friends/family pay for one account etc)
Now if we're talking about morals, as in real life morals, I'd object to everything above. I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't be friends with those that did. But this is not real life, it's a game.
Here's an example. If I joined a corp and was provided access to their teamspeak and forums. I then would use and have no problem using information on those forums relating to eve for personal/corp/alliance gain in eve. HOWEVER if I found personal information on forums/teamspeak that was clearly only there because the people using those forums were chatting with friends in what they considered a semi-private forum, I wouldn't use it. That would be my moral line regarding in game/out of game use.
Another line I'd draw is the difference between getting a spy onto teamspeak (through one of the methods I agree with above, not hacking/password sniffing or any other means) and taking teamspeak offline through a DoS. The former I have no problem with, the latter I'd object to.
I often object to people posting private chat logs (eve related that is) on the eve-o forums, yet that is more of a moral issue than anything else. It's certainly not anything I'd want a player to be banned over, unlike DoS attacks on forums/teamspeak/other players or hacking forums/teamspeak/other players pc's all of which I'd hope the players involved would be banned for.
Actions that are morally questionable in real-life are often perfectly acceptable in a fictional game environment such as EVE. There are grey areas or borderline cases but on the whole even those I find acceptable so long as they're not taken too far. When things esculate to using illegal methods to obtain the same advantage, that is when people should really take stock of what they're doing and the reasons they're doing it. Is a game really so important that you'd resort to such acts?
Very good post on the subject.
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Arrgs
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:43:00 -
[123]
The line is drawn in a diffrent place for everyone. Some people have no problems with abusing RL friendships or gaining the trust of others through months and months then stabbing them in the back. It boils down the the morals of the person and how far they are willing to go to achieve their goal(s).
If someone does something illegal such as hacking a forum, then while it is illegal, they may not see it as wrong.
My first video!
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Dominie Dirtch
Minmatar
Revival.
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:43:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Xendie
what i think is worse then spying and infiltrating corps/alliances or even being given a sql dump from the enemies web admins is the fact that rules on these forums are effectively being changed to fit what one party ingame wants it be when they are the subject of the spying and infiltrating.
now that is lame of CCP to allow.
The rules were changed BECAUSE of us, xendie, not FOR us. We OBJECTED to to the stupid "no intel posts / internal forums" rule, it is pathetic, but it's there - now you're screaming that, AFTER it's changed, it's OUR fault?
Get a grip.
you are the ones that have used OOG forum info on these forums in the past and then it was very much ok.
when you are the recipient of it you whine and whine to your moderators so the rules gets changed.
you did it on the sig images and you did it on this.
get a grip yourself.
We are the ones that have used information that we were GIVEN, xendie, stop letting your bitterness get in the way of your judgement. ANY corp we have infiltrated use of the forums AND ts has been MANDATORY. You say get a grip yet it's you who point blank refuses to engage the notion that, actually, we're not cheats, nor do we have anyone high up in CCP, you simply cannot get it round your nouse that we're BETTER than you.
Prior to the sig rules "change" THERE WAS NO RULE u muppet. People had been making sigs of a similar nature to ours for YEARS prior to us doing the ascn set - you think we wanted them banned and then whined to have them put back?
ROFL.
Sit down, step back, get over it.
i dont trust your word further then my nose protrudes out from my face.
you were given the info, yeah right.
kugutsumen were GIVEN a sql dump from your forums.
you were allowed to post screenies and inside information you had gotten(god knows how) from other alliances forums and webservers.
when kugutsumen posted about bob you whined and cried and screamed hax/sploits and so on to the moderators so they ban him from the forums.
why should we believe you who has in the past stolen/been given info from other people forums/web servers and posted it on these forums and not him?
you look at it as impossible that someone in your midst would do something like giving all the info out to someone but it happens to everyone at some point.
as you propably know very well yourself.
you need to plug the intel hole and i would start with your server admins who gave away the sql dump and not cry so damn much about it.
get a grip.
as for the sig rules yes there have been moderation rules of sigs before and you know it since you have been petitioning every single on of my sigs for any remote chance of giving me a warning.
get a life Diana.
and personal attacks such as calling me a muppet will be reported as soon as [email protected] works again.
They cannot take what they give out Xendie, there is no point in arguing with them at all.
I recently joined a corp and was told all about bob and their ways, they make me laugh with their bitterness and egomania and angry with their self righteous indignation.
Dom
_________
My voice shall tear you asunder and show your vile ways. |
Cowan
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:44:00 -
[125]
Well there I have always found this an interesting debate on this topic. Whilst many have stated that getting given the password to someone's Vent/TS or forums is ok because it is not breaking the law. Well in some parts of the world this is not so the case.
Where I live we have social engineering laws. Basically it is illegal to access any information using false information. With the penalties for this being exactly the same as if you hacked access to this information. Now I doubt many would be so inclined as to approach the police for such an ingame abuse however might pay twice to think about it before doing such acts.
My company runs a webhosting business and at present I run a Teamspeak server for an alliance and also several corporations. This also brings another interesting turn. Anyone using those Teamspeaks for anything other then intended purposes could be liable for a lawsuit for excessive bandwidth usage. (The same as someone is liable for a DoS attack.)
So all up the legal ramifications are quite interesting. But back on topic.
I personally have been given access to opponents TS, Forums and the like. Now I never used any of this for anything in the end because personally I think knowing what your enemy is upto takes out a huge amount of fun out of the game. I would personally prefer the unexpected to happen.
Mods please note that this is currently my main that is in the process of changing corps. Cheers
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Dr Einkeisel
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:45:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Dr Einkeisel on 02/01/2007 23:44:50
Dominie Dirtch Right so you have no first hand experience of us ? yet you come here and blow your trumpet.
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Evil Thug
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:46:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse
you are even worse than any bob spy
Tell me, why so, Woody ?
Insulting real life people, with arrogant posts on forums, during wartime to bring their morale down is ok ?
Or may be singing songs on their teamspeak ?
I`m not bitter about bob. They are doing great job to eve community just by fact, that they are existing - evil empire etc. But, they started playing these games first, calling it 'social engineering'. They just forget about fact, that for someone its perfectly ok to call h4x - social engineering. In the end - result stays the same - you are aquiring intel.
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Dominie Dirtch
Minmatar
Revival.
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:47:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Dominie Dirtch on 02/01/2007 23:48:10
Originally by: Dr Einkeisel
Edited by: Dr Einkeisel on 02/01/2007 23:44:50
Dominie Dirtch Right so you have no first hand experience of us ? yet you come here and blow your trumpet.
I have not had first hand experience of you no, i have however played the game for just over one year now with a different character (which i recently traded and start this new one for)
I have seen post on the forums, i have seen bob generally annoy others and bait them into flame wars then not see the person they bait on the forum for the next week or two. I see bob cry wolf at things they them selfs have done.
This incident is no different, bob post internal ASCN information yet when it is done to them they cry to the mods until it is removed.
-added-
I expect to have first-hand knowledge very soon.
_________
My voice shall tear you asunder and show your vile ways. |
Dianabolic
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:49:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Dianabolic on 02/01/2007 23:51:27
Edited by: Dianabolic on 02/01/2007 23:50:40
Edited by: Dianabolic on 02/01/2007 23:49:32
Originally by: Xendie
and personal attacks such as calling me a muppet will be reported as soon as [email protected] works again.
Stop being a muppet, either that or wipe your mouth after you swallow!
I'll answer your petition as soon as it comes in, Malken 
Quote:
2006.12.18 23:46:04 Notify Phoenix belonging to nOrAb self-destructs.
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Dr Einkeisel
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:50:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Cowan
Well there I have always found this an interesting debate on this topic. Whilst many have stated that getting given the password to someone's Vent/TS or forums is ok because it is not breaking the law. Well in some parts of the world this is not so the case.
Where I live we have social engineering laws. Basically it is illegal to access any information using false information. With the penalties for this being exactly the same as if you hacked access to this information. Now I doubt many would be so inclined as to approach the police for such an ingame abuse however might pay twice to think about it before doing such acts.
My company runs a webhosting business and at present I run a Teamspeak server for an alliance and also several corporations. This also brings another interesting turn. Anyone using those Teamspeaks for anything other then intended purposes could be liable for a lawsuit for excessive bandwidth usage. (The same as someone is liable for a DoS attack.)
So all up the legal ramifications are quite interesting. But back on topic.
I personally have been given access to opponents TS, Forums and the like. Now I never used any of this for anything in the end because personally I think knowing what your enemy is upto takes out a huge amount of fun out of the game. I would personally prefer the unexpected to happen.
Mods please note that this is currently my main that is in the process of changing corps. Cheers
How can you say its social engineering, without been able to prove there was intent in the first place to spy etc.
Its not like you have one face like RL, infact you have the possibilty of three different personias <- sp, each one roleplaying a different kind of person, maybe in different corps or alliance. What you do with each one is your own choice, and each one a different "person" heck I could have 3 Chars in three different alliances and be a model member in each.
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:50:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Dr Einkeisel
Edited by: Dr Einkeisel on 02/01/2007 23:42:12
Originally by: Ramblin Man
Originally by: Julia Lycera
If you are *given* access to an opposing sides forum or Vent-TS2 server via deceit or espionage then you have done nothing wrong, legally or morally.
Just as a note, you stressing given is a straw man.
You're being "*given*" access under false pretenses.
Imo, that's more akin to *stealing*.
I dont understand how its under false pretenses, when I am on my BoB char I play the char in bob.
When Iam on my ASCN Char Iam playing on a char in ASCN.
If I partake in corp ops help with the alliance then I am just the an average member.
What I choose to do with my ASCN char be that pass on imformation etc, has nothing to do with my alter ego.
What Iam trying to say is -
When I play as my BoB char, I am in bob roleplaying a pilot in a ship in bob.
When I play as my ASCN Char, Iam roleplaying a pilot in ASCN
What I choose to do with any the imformation I required from either alliance is my own business.
If I have been passed imformation to log onto the forums and onto TS while roleplaying that character, then that is totaly correct since; am I not a member of ASCN? is that not the persona I am roleplaying?
And the same goes if I was to pass imformation about BOB onto ASCN ? Im finding it hard to explain what I mean here hopefully somone will save me from my own confusion
oh and I know this is about bob and ASCN, I was just using that as an example since its very recent
I think this was very confusing to read.
Just one quesiont if asked by ascn if you had any alts or characters in other alliances, did you tell them yes.
If not then you lied to get access. That means you hacked their private forums and TS.
And in the end not much different from the guy who tried to use brute force to do it. Your was is just a lot more sublte (and probably much more efficient) but is hacking none the less.
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Dominie Dirtch
Minmatar
Revival.
|
Posted - 2007.01.02 23:51:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Edited by: Dianabolic on 02/01/2007 23:49:32
Originally by: Xendie
and personal attacks such as calling me a muppet will be reported as soon as [email protected] works again.
I'll answer your petition as soon as it comes in, Malken
Arrogance becomes you Dianabolic. It most certainly does.
Quote:
#
# Impersonating another forum user, moderator, volunteer, administrator, CCP or Siminn employee is strictly prohibited.
You are very norty.
_________
My voice shall tear you asunder and show your vile ways. |
Weco
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:53:00 -
[133]
Its called War, you try to destroy something someone put RL time and money into (subscription) and they will come after you in RL aswell. Only natural.
____________________________________________
My sig? |
Menth
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.01.02 23:58:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Edited by: Dianabolic on 02/01/2007 23:56:00
Originally by: Xendie
and personal attacks such as calling me a muppet will be reported as soon as [email protected] works again.
Wipe your mouth before you speak 
I'll answer your petition as soon as it comes in, Malken
I'd edit it just to say that I'm not a mod, but I cba, believe me if you like, I care not.
Looks like he just made someones day.
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Cmd Woodlouse
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:59:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse
you are even worse than any bob spy
Tell me, why so, Woody ?
Cause applauding people ppl who are even using illegal by law acts to gain that intel is more than double standards to me.
I think most ppl here misunderstood me or maybe thats cause of my poor english. Im not against spying, it IS part of the game. But discriminating and ridiculing RL humans is not.
Its a thin red line. And i fear too many ppl out there are just unable to stop before crossing it.
--------------------------------
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thoradh
AirHawk Alliance
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.02 23:59:00 -
[136]
Ah yes, the chickens come home to roost, and they're not all home yet methinks...
>
> Noli illegitimi carborundum!
> |
Flapp
Dog Tags
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:00:00 -
[137]
In response to the original posting:
Check my Bio, i like being a spy.
I do use a lot of resources most people don't think about, like that i could tell you if that farmers account spotting all those fancy characters is right or left handed in real life.
No kidding.
The line i will never cross is about corp. integrity. I will never ever infiltrate a corp. or alliance by joining it. There are already so many scams, thefts and betrayals - too many for my taste, and besides all that... the important pieces of information can be gathered from outside just as easily.
See you southwards, i believe there is some work waiting for me down there.
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:00:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Edited by: Dianabolic on 02/01/2007 23:56:00
Wipe your mouth before you speak
I'll answer your petition as soon as it comes in, Malken
I'd edit it just to say that I'm not a mod, but I cba, believe me if you like, I care not.
that kinda shows why you fail at eve as well at life because you think eve=rl, pathetic diana.
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Metal Dude
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:00:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Weco
Its called War, you try to destroy something someone put RL time and money into (subscription) and they will come after you in RL aswell. Only natural.
I don't think we want to be playing this RL, all gloves are off attitude about a game, do we? Otherwise, this could get ugly.
The truth will set you free
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Dominie Dirtch
Minmatar
Revival.
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:01:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Weco
Its called War, you try to destroy something someone put RL time and money into (subscription) and they will come after you in RL aswell. Only natural.
I don't think we want to be playing this RL, all gloves are off attitude about a game, do we? Otherwise, this could get ugly.
Well BoB supposedly contacted this persons real life Boss... i think its already gotten ugly and will get uglier if that was the case.
_________
My voice shall tear you asunder and show your vile ways. |
Dianabolic
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.01.03 00:02:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Dianabolic
Edited by: Dianabolic on 02/01/2007 23:56:00
Wipe your mouth before you speak
I'll answer your petition as soon as it comes in, Malken
I'd edit it just to say that I'm not a mod, but I cba, believe me if you like, I care not.
that kinda shows why you fail at eve as well at life because you think eve=rl, pathetic diana.
Are you sure you're not confusing me with the picture in the mirror, malken dear fellow?
I think eve=rl?
I do?
Wait, I must go and extort someone out of their house (I'm a landlord!) and rip their implants right out of their still living head, all whilst I beat them round their grotty legs with their own grotty legs of some corps I collected.
Yes, I am obviously having seperation issues.
Quote:
2006.12.18 23:46:04 Notify Phoenix belonging to nOrAb self-destructs.
|
thoradh
AirHawk Alliance
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:05:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Dominie Dirtch
Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Weco
Its called War, you try to destroy something someone put RL time and money into (subscription) and they will come after you in RL aswell. Only natural.
I don't think we want to be playing this RL, all gloves are off attitude about a game, do we? Otherwise, this could get ugly.
Well BoB supposedly contacted this persons real life Boss... i think its already gotten ugly and will get uglier if that was the case.
Indeed, and I'll wager when it does get much much uglier Eve will not have benefited at all, you reap what you sow.
>
> Noli illegitimi carborundum!
> |
Serapis Aote
TBC
|
Posted - 2007.01.03 00:08:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Cowan
Where I live we have social engineering laws. Basically it is illegal to access any information using false information. With the penalties for this being exactly the same as if you hacked access to this information. Now I doubt many would be so inclined as to approach the police for such an ingame abuse however might pay twice to think about it before doing such acts.
Its actaully illegal in most countries.
In the US however they only prosecute (ie make it a crime if you cause a certain amount of damage, so they can limit prosecutions).
US STATE laws
US Federal Law
The fact still remains though. Nobody is ever going to be prosecuted for this. But they wont be prosecuted in the US for a brut force hack either, unless they cause damage. So i still dont see how people are drawing the line there, they are both illegal, but unenforced for this type of thing.
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searchi
tiberian suns
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:15:00 -
[144]
Edited by: searchi on 03/01/2007 00:29:25
infiltrating involves lieing to rl people which invest rl money and rl time into this game.
would be impersonating in rl be illegal? yes
bob tries to spread the disease because they wouldnt be half as succesful without it.
give the corps means to identify people. then spieing is legitimate. til then its just dirt.
bob forum brigade is out in force because they feel strong about it.
bob feels more or less safe because their invite only recruitment which they can afford because people gravitate to them to have eve in easy mode.
1 person worming up its way in a corp since years by lieing all the way can do more harm than a whole fleet.
what do ou think happens to our morale,when pos just go offline or the enem knows ever time whos fleetleader.
whats the difference between corp-theft and treason/spieing? none at all both involve lieing to rl persons abusing trust.
in rl such things can get you killed and rightly so but in eve you can hide because nobody can find out who you are.
fight unhonest, fight the darkness
arjun
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Evil Thug
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:19:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse
you are even worse than any bob spy
Tell me, why so, Woody ?
Cause applauding people ppl who are even using illegal by law acts to gain that intel is more than double standards to me.
For you - it is. For them - its not. For someone - insulting people to gain advantage in-game - is ok, for me - its not. There is no 'ultimate truth' in real life. In eve - it is, and this thing is called EULA. No point in EULA regarding hacking to gain access to forum information - its ok, and its allowed.
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Angry Dan
Caldari
Momentum.
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:19:00 -
[146]
Originally by: j0sephine
This brings interesting point.... how much of actual TS spying is going out there, and how much of it is just baseless accusations and responsibility dodging in the form of "well they must've had a TS spy otherwise we would've won. After all everyone know those cheaters and hackers never play fair and do nothing but exploit, or they'd never beat us"... o.(
The day Orc A had a spy suicide a FiX fleet onto a SA pos was the day I decided to leave Huzzah. One of Huzzah's founding tenets was to be above that sort of low life trick.
[right]++++++++++++++++++++
Founder member of the Huzzah Federation.
Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence
Originally by: Butter Dog
Good Sportsmanship > Winning.
[/quote |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:21:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Dianabolic
Edited by: Dianabolic on 02/01/2007 23:56:00
Wipe your mouth before you speak
I'll answer your petition as soon as it comes in, Malken
I'd edit it just to say that I'm not a mod, but I cba, believe me if you like, I care not.
that kinda shows why you fail at eve as well at life because you think eve=rl, pathetic diana.
Are you sure you're not confusing me with the picture in the mirror, malken dear fellow?
I think eve=rl?
I do?
Wait, I must go and extort someone out of their house (I'm a landlord!) and rip their implants right out of their still living head, all whilst I beat them round their grotty legs with their own grotty legs of some corps I collected.
Yes, I am obviously having seperation issues.
apparently you do as you think the guy did a RL crime but you want him to be punished ingame and on the forums when if it actually was a RL crime behind it wich i doubt then the police would handle it.
you whined and cried to get the rules changed when it wasnt suiting you and your corp/alliance anymore.
goodnight and have a nice day, ill come back tomorrow and see your repeated ramblings and giggle at them.
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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El Covah
Die Diener Melkors
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:21:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Evil Thug
No point in EULA regarding hacking to gain access to forum information - its ok, and its allowed.
It is a criminal act forbidden by RL law in most countries. There is still something above the EULA.
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Dianabolic
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:24:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Dianabolic on 03/01/2007 00:25:06
Originally by: Xendie
apparently you do as you think the guy did a RL crime but you want him to be punished ingame and on the forums when if it actually was a RL crime behind it wich i doubt then the police would handle it.
Where have I asked for him to be punished in-game? Nowhere, dear Malken, in fact I think the general concensus is that we're not going to involve the police, what would be the point? If we see him in-game, sure as hell we'll kill him... like we do most people. Show me logs of me asking for this guy to be prosecuted, dear chap, and you shall have your point - until then you're just sitting jerking your chain in the corner and giggling cuz uv found a new toy.
Originally by: Xendie
you whined and cried to get the rules changed when it wasnt suiting you and your corp/alliance anymore.
Again, incorrect - we have never ever asked for chat logs and "other website" material to be kept off the forums - don't you get it, spittle_loving_muppet of olde, we LOVE the drama.
Why would we ask for something that removes from that?
Or are you still stuck in your (already proven to be false) "sig" saga timeline?
Quote:
2006.12.18 23:46:04 Notify Phoenix belonging to nOrAb self-destructs.
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Wilfan Ret'nub
Singularity.
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:37:00 -
[150]
The cause for this dilemma is simple. The solution - impossible.
There are two worlds with different rules: EVE and RL ("real life", as overloaded as this word is...). In EVE, some actions are allowed and some are forbidden by EULA / TOS and bannable. Some are possible, then become bannable, then get fixed and can't be done anymore. In RL, some actions are allowed and some are illegal and punishable.
Does a (third-party, e.g. corporation's) forum belong into EVE or RL sphere?
If it's in EVE sphere, then we'd need CCP to tell us whether hacking is an exploit or not. Community consensus won't do it - it failed for logging off in bubbles. But even if CCP declares it's an exploit, how will they enforce that? It's impossible to link a competent hacker to the EVE account. He might even not have one.
If it belongs in the RL sphere, then there's no use to froth about it on the forums. It's up to law enforcement agencies to sort it out. Maybe a call to police would be in order, or some lobbying to tighten the legislation ... I'm sure it will work, especially when the perpetrator sits on the other side of the globe and police can't stop laughing while you describe the serius business of the internets. You better hope they don't take you seriously, or RL will start trampling on the "high art of EVE espionage" with myriad of lax computer intrusion, anti-pretexting and privacy laws.
It would all be much simpler if all EVE resources would be in the EVE client, under CCP control. But it would also make the game experience less flexible and honestly, much crappier.
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No ISK, no fun |
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