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Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.05 23:30:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Ramblin Man
Because if an alliance doesn't want an outpost, who else would they give it to?
Someone capable of defending it?
sorry I had to take the shot :o)
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2007.01.05 23:40:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Ramblin Man
Scenario:
.....
4) ISS is back in the outpost business
Why would that happen?
Because if an alliance doesn't want an outpost, who else would they give it to?
You can whine all you want about ISS being untrustworthy and breaking X clause in Y paragraph at Z date, but the fact of the matter is that, looking at things relatively, they're still a couple AUs above everyone else in the trustworthiness and dependability departments.
If you are an ISS supporter, the current developments must suck pretty hard. ISS are gonna get systematically wiped off the face of 0.0 It must be some consolation to cling onto your line of thought.
But.... the reality is its game over for ISS. After all its neutrality and 'good intentions' (and we all know what the road to hell is paved with) ISS has nobody to count on that does not have a commercial interest. To put it bluntly ISS has no friends in 0.0 Mercs aren't friends, alliances that have shares in ISS aren't friends. ISS is alone. ISS' best friend was ISK and unfortunately ISK cannot physically defend your stations. The pipedream of being able to exist in 0.0 and be neutral has been exposed for what it is, a delusion.
If ISS exists in some future state operating in 0.0 it will be under the watch of some 0.0 power, it will become somebody's pet in the business model of the shared outpost with LV. But ISS' neutral outpost holding days are over.
I know it sucks if you subscribed to the pipedream, but its over.
You may not realise it but atm ISS is probably the single most hated entity in the game. ISS' outpost days will be a historical oddity.
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Muesli Monster
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Posted - 2007.01.05 23:40:00 -
[63]
Probable scenario:
1. Masta'Blob (aka. AAA/D2/RAGOON/IAC/IMP/TCF) Takes 4-5 outposts.
2. ISS shareholders loose their minds trying to figure out if its worth saving the alliance
3. ISS has internal struggles because of the loss of income (alot, taken from the words of high officials, tho, those figures can be both nuttin and iskies depending on whats on stake)
4. ISS breaks apart into 'renegade side' taking allthe money and 'shareholder side' sitting there with 4 outposts unable to defend them.
5. ISS dies and noone really cares anymore...  |
WhiteBull
Minmatar
EDEN IN EVE
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Posted - 2007.01.05 23:44:00 -
[64]
If no one steps in to rescue ISS, D2 will not stop at their northern stations. It seems two northern stations have already fallen into D2 hands (or are on the verge of falling).
D2 will continue to take ISS stations across the entire map until someone steps into the rescue. I am sure D2 is betting that someone will challenge them, and is ready for the fight.
If no one will step up to defend ISS, then D2 will just continue to take station after station until all ISS stations are taken. It is D2's strategy to provoke a war on a very wide scale. This is just the opening salvo.
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:11:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Ramblin Man on 06/01/2007 00:15:46
Originally by: Fubear
Originally by: Ramblin Man
Because if an alliance doesn't want an outpost, who else would they give it to?
Someone capable of defending it?
sorry I had to take the shot :o)
Eh? Why would you give it to a military-based alliance with ulterior goals?
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Ramblin Man
Scenario:
.....
4) ISS is back in the outpost business
Why would that happen?
Because if an alliance doesn't want an outpost, who else would they give it to?
You can whine all you want about ISS being untrustworthy and breaking X clause in Y paragraph at Z date, but the fact of the matter is that, looking at things relatively, they're still a couple AUs above everyone else in the trustworthiness and dependability departments.
[{stuff}
And now for something that replies to the thread...]
If ISS exists in some future state operating in 0.0 it will be under the watch of some 0.0 power, it will become somebody's pet in the business model of the shared outpost with LV. But ISS' neutral outpost holding days are over.
[... more demagoguery]
Ummm, ISS was always supposed to operate this way. That's what shares are. That's why substantial portions of shares were sold to neighbors.
Just because someone calls it something different doesn't change the dynamic. Shares are control. Agreements are control. *shrugs and yawns* Control is control.
Edit: F.ex. the RAZOR guy who takes a 1.5B splash if ISSBO gets captured and not handed back.
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Harpoon
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:22:00 -
[66]
I find it hard to believe, that even after more than 1 1/2 years of ISS, there are still people who don't understand our business model. Those are not our stations you are sieging at the moment. They belong to thousands of people all over the eve-universe.
You act like some guys robbing a bank, boasting about "Whoa! We surely screwed those bank dudes! We took all their money! Now the guy behind the counter won't be able to pay his bills!", not understanding, that the "bank dude" only gets paid to take care of other peoples money.
Even if you would take each and every ISS outpost - people would still throw their money after us. Because making cash is what we are good at. You can't ruin Microsoft or Oracle or Apple by blowing up a random software shop. It's not going to happen.
Shooting at an idea is just a waste of ammunition.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:34:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Harpoon
Even if you would take each and every ISS outpost - people would still throw their money after us. Because making cash is what we are good at. You can't ruin Microsoft or Oracle or Apple by blowing up a random software shop. It's not going to happen.
Shooting at an idea is just a waste of ammunition.
You are wrong.... nobody is gonna give you money for an outpost ever again, certainly not a 'neutral' one. And about wasting ammunition... you simply do not understand how EVE works. The very ammunition that is being shot at you does not exist, it is a metaphor for displeasure with your ideology.. so infact your ideology is being shot down by another ideology.
And that ideology is Might is Right. You no longer have the might so you will get eliminated. The irony ofc is that you tried to play that game with IAC but it fell flat on its face.
You bring your spreadsheets to EVE and expect all to bow down in awe at your commercial entepreneurship. You must be out of your mind. EVE is about pew pew and power mongering.
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Muesli Monster
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:41:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Harpoon
Even if you would take each and every ISS outpost - people would still throw their money after us. Because making cash is what we are good at. You can't ruin Microsoft or Oracle or Apple by blowing up a random software shop. It's not going to happen.
Shooting at an idea is just a waste of ammunition.
You are wrong.... nobody is gonna give you money for an outpost ever again, certainly not a 'neutral' one. And about wasting ammunition... you simply do not understand how EVE works. The very ammunition that is being shot at you does not exist, it is a metaphor for displeasure with your ideology.. so infact your ideology is being shot down by another ideology.
And that ideology is Might is Right. You no longer have the might so you will get eliminated. The irony ofc is that you tried to play that game with IAC but it fell flat on its face.
You bring your spreadsheets to EVE and expect all to bow down in awe at your commercial entepreneurship. You must be out of your mind. EVE is about pew pew and power mongering.
QFTW |
Faramare
Foul Rodent
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:43:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Faramare on 06/01/2007 00:43:44
Originally by: Harpoon
Even if you would take each and every ISS outpost - people would still throw their money after us. Because making cash is what we are good at. You can't ruin Microsoft or Oracle or Apple by blowing up a random software shop. It's not going to happen.
Shooting at an idea is just a waste of ammunition.
You might have been good at making isk, but not anymore, as you have lost TRUST.
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Harpoon
Even if you would take each and every ISS outpost - people would still throw their money after us. Because making cash is what we are good at. You can't ruin Microsoft or Oracle or Apple by blowing up a random software shop. It's not going to happen.
Shooting at an idea is just a waste of ammunition.
You are wrong.... nobody is gonna give you money for an outpost ever again, certainly not a 'neutral' one. And about wasting ammunition... you simply do not understand how EVE works. The very ammunition that is being shot at you does not exist, it is a metaphor for displeasure with your ideology.. so infact your ideology is being shot down by another ideology.
And that ideology is Might is Right. You no longer have the might so you will get eliminated. The irony ofc is that you tried to play that game with IAC but it fell flat on its face.
You bring your spreadsheets to EVE and expect all to bow down in awe at your commercial entepreneurship. You must be out of your mind. EVE is about pew pew and power mongering.
Beware, ladies and gentlemens, this kind of willful ignorance is not limited to EVE. Indeed, it exists virtually unchanged in your very, very real world.
Don't let overspecialization of language infect you!
Build bridges from your discipline, not walls around it. [:peace:] 
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:49:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Cardassius
Edited by: Cardassius on 05/01/2007 11:34:08
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Orlando Gardner
well it spells the end of the 'industrial alliance' now that both ASCN and ISS have pretty much collapsed the lesson EVE is teaching us is
if you can't defend your outposts you will be exposed.
by bob or iac or whoever the fk.
QFT
These industrial type alliances were a pipedream anyways.... and now its over. And about time too.
Hi nezzy ;)
ISS isn't dead cause they have iskies :P and shares :)
They hired a bunch of people to kick IAC in the nuts.
ASCN had iskies!
Look where it got them
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Algey
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:57:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Harpoon
Even if you would take each and every ISS outpost - people would still throw their money after us. Because making cash is what we are good at. You can't ruin Microsoft or Oracle or Apple by blowing up a random software shop. It's not going to happen.
Shooting at an idea is just a waste of ammunition.
You are wrong.... nobody is gonna give you money for an outpost ever again, certainly not a 'neutral' one. And about wasting ammunition... you simply do not understand how EVE works. The very ammunition that is being shot at you does not exist, it is a metaphor for displeasure with your ideology.. so infact your ideology is being shot down by another ideology.
And that ideology is Might is Right. You no longer have the might so you will get eliminated. The irony ofc is that you tried to play that game with IAC but it fell flat on its face.
You bring your spreadsheets to EVE and expect all to bow down in awe at your commercial entepreneurship. You must be out of your mind. EVE is about pew pew and power mongering.
You sir are wrong. ISS makes money for people, money they don't have to make for themselves. People love having money made for them.
Even if we lose all of the stations there will be 500Bn isk being managed by ISS through the IPO, which is totally seperate from the stations. We're a capitalist bug, and we can't be squished that easily 
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:59:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Potty
I Believe that ISS are BoB alts/buddies/puppets ect ect.
Sorry, my friend. I've been in ISS ... a while, and I can honestly say that's an inaccurate perception. I've met BoB members IRL a couple of times, along with a whole load of other EVE players at fanfest and maybe one of the london meets.
They were one of our early customers. That got the ball rolling, but ... well, since a few months after that, to my knowledge BoB have been red to ISS ever since. (We reset standings a few months back, and BoB were back out shooting ISS shortly after).
As to the hypothetical, what if it all falls apart? Pull together the pieces and start again. I still think it's a cool and good idea.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:02:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Algey
You sir are wrong. ISS makes money for people, money they don't have to make for themselves. People love having money made for them.
Even if we lose all of the stations there will be 500Bn isk being managed by ISS through the IPO, which is totally seperate from the stations. We're a capitalist bug, and we can't be squished that easily
But when all is said and done.. in this game that we play for fun... you have proven to be more trouble than you are worth.
The attack of the spreadsheets has failed.... the last carebear managed entity in 0.0 is drawing its final breath.
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:09:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Ramblin Man on 06/01/2007 01:09:02
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Algey
You sir are wrong. ISS makes money for people, money they don't have to make for themselves. People love having money made for them.
Even if we lose all of the stations there will be 500Bn isk being managed by ISS through the IPO, which is totally seperate from the stations. We're a capitalist bug, and we can't be squished that easily
But when all is said and done.. in this game that we play for fun... you have proven to be more trouble than you are worth.
The attack of the spreadsheets has failed.... the last carebear managed entity in 0.0 is drawing its final breath.
It's like Fox News, except I don't have to pay for cable! 
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Algey
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:11:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Algey
You sir are wrong. ISS makes money for people, money they don't have to make for themselves. People love having money made for them.
Even if we lose all of the stations there will be 500Bn isk being managed by ISS through the IPO, which is totally seperate from the stations. We're a capitalist bug, and we can't be squished that easily
But when all is said and done.. in this game that we play for fun... you have proven to be more trouble than you are worth.
The attack of the spreadsheets has failed.... the last carebear managed entity in 0.0 is drawing its final breath.
Nah, in the game we play for fun, many people don't want to spend their time ratting and mining out in 0.0, they want to spend it shooting stuff. We make that money for them, and they like us doing it (even people who hate us have shares)
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:24:00 -
[77]
As long as NPC stations exist and an office is rentable ISS will not be wiped out of 0.0 space.
Thinking so is about as silly as saying if IAC loose their outposts they loose the war. Outposts are things. ISS will only rethink and reimplement their model and probably become renters to those who only care about an isk to wallet relationship.
The sieges are far from over so lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Pew... Pew... Pew!
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Harpoon
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:34:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Algey
You sir are wrong. ISS makes money for people, money they don't have to make for themselves. People love having money made for them.
Even if we lose all of the stations there will be 500Bn isk being managed by ISS through the IPO, which is totally seperate from the stations. We're a capitalist bug, and we can't be squished that easily
But when all is said and done.. in this game that we play for fun... you have proven to be more trouble than you are worth.
The attack of the spreadsheets has failed.... the last carebear managed entity in 0.0 is drawing its final breath.
Nez, I see where you are coming from. And I respect your personal view of this game. But unfortunately, you are a fine example for completely missing the idea if ISS. I don't even mind your sometimes a bit "aggressive" stance (although I sometimes get the feeling you seem to fear what you don't understand).
You are right when you say, that we play this game for fun. We all do. But please remember - fun costs ISK. And we literally make ISK. And we do it for other people. No matter, how many stations we have available at any given moment.
I am playing this game since 2003, and only after joining ISSN 3 month ago I started to realize which massive amounts of money people can make in this game. Believe me or not, but even in times of war, the fastest way to become a billionaire in this game is ISS. And as long as ANYTHING in this game costs ISK, people will look for the opportunity to invest. As I said before - shooting at ideas may be fun for a while, but will change nothing in the end.
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Muadeeb Ousil
Minmatar
Office linebackers
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:37:00 -
[79]
WTB: Viagra for ISS's Epeen...
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R3dSh1ft
Caldari
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:51:00 -
[80]
I made a little brown fish
______________________________________
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ElweSingollo
Starlancers
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Posted - 2007.01.06 02:12:00 -
[81]
Originally by: WhiteBull
If no one steps in to rescue ISS, D2 will not stop at their northern stations. It seems two northern stations have already fallen into D2 hands (or are on the verge of falling).
D2 will continue to take ISS stations across the entire map until someone steps into the rescue. I am sure D2 is betting that someone will challenge them, and is ready for the fight.
If no one will step up to defend ISS, then D2 will just continue to take station after station until all ISS stations are taken. It is D2's strategy to provoke a war on a very wide scale. This is just the opening salvo.
You have had a look at the map haven't you? ISS don't just own stations in the north and those in the south even if D2 took them would be to juicy a target for enemies of D2 why would D2 be idotic enough to split it's forces that much.
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Der Pfaffe
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.06 02:32:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Nez Perces
You bring your spreadsheets to EVE and expect all to bow down in awe at your commercial entepreneurship. You must be out of your mind. EVE is about pew pew and power mongering.
I beg to differ. Your and my idea of fun in EVE might be PVP, but many thousands of players are quite happy to mine, manufacture, trade, mission run, scam or whatever. Many of them never set foot in 0.0 or have even fired a shot in anger, except perhaps at the odd NPC.
Many have absolutely no interest in the power mongering or politics of EVE.
That's the beauty of EVE, there is no one way that is the "right" way to play it. Saying otherwise is just narrowminded.
But back to the OP.... all I can say that there are very interesting times ahead. GL to all those involved.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2007.01.06 02:35:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Der Pfaffe
I beg to differ. Your and my idea of fun in EVE might be PVP, but many thousands of players are quite happy to mine, manufacture, trade, mission run, scam or whatever. Many of them never set foot in 0.0 or have even fired a shot in anger, except perhaps at the odd NPC.
Many have absolutely no interest in the power mongering or politics of EVE.
That's the beauty of EVE, there is no one way that is the "right" way to play it. Saying otherwise is just narrowminded.
But back to the OP.... all I can say that there are very interesting times ahead. GL to all those involved.
I am referring to 0.0 where industry/isk is a means to bring more pew pew to the table... in empire anything goes.
But yes back to the OP. 
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Beringe
Caldari
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.01.06 05:06:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Nez Perces
You may not realise it but atm ISS is probably the single most hated entity in the game. ISS' outpost days will be a historical oddity.
I believe that's quite wrong. Amazingly, astronomically, staggeringly wrong, even.
In fact, if you have a moment, it's such a wrong statement that it has gained terminal wrongness and has condensed into a error singularity, collapsing in on itself.
Also, I'm fairly sure ISS will weather this...storm in a teacup. Soon enough, those alliances attacking them will have plenty of other worries.
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"Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.06 05:26:00 -
[85]
Edited by: j0sephine on 06/01/2007 05:23:40
"You are wrong.... nobody is gonna give you money for an outpost ever again (..)"
Out of curiosity Nez... all this talk and the "most hated in EVE" projection on general population and the time you spend haunting these ISS people thread after thread after thread, and the delight you take telling them in most drawn out details just how screwed they are... did they **** in your tech.2 cornflakes, or something? O.o
I'd have to go with Kryz here... so ISS may lose a few outposts because some people like to shoot while other like to build. Who cares? Nothing new since CFS and CFS 2.0 felt to people with the guns. Someone new will try the same thing few months from now on and eventually to the same result.
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Azzaa
Caldari
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 07:53:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
Have fun IAC shoting iss pos's the next 2 years
i dont see this lasting another 2 weeks
My little message to ISS
My little message to butter dog
[IMG]http://members.aardvark.net.au/spacef |
mamolian
Vortex.
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.06 07:56:00 -
[87]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
I made a little brown fish
I knew you were a dirty girl when I married you tubs..
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2007.01.06 09:40:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 06/01/2007 09:42:31
Originally by: j0sephine
Out of curiosity Nez... all this talk and the "most hated in EVE" projection on general population and the time you spend haunting these ISS people thread after thread after thread, and the delight you take telling them in most drawn out details just how screwed they are... did they **** in your tech.2 cornflakes, or something? O.o
Oh... its an amalgamation of things....too complicated to explain here. One of them includes my first dealings with ISS as a FIX JCoS where ISS falsely piggy-backed on FIX's status as an emerging 0.0 power to get itself in the EVE news, with a bunch of trumped up lies. It was the first time ISS entered EVE-Consciousness.. and they did it with a lie.
Other reasons include anything that even vaguely resembles CFS makes me see red, because I experienced first hand the kind of player that it attracts. Unfortunately I've also had to deal with that kind of player in NBSI alliances... with their insiduous tendency to talk of free markets and other claptrap... but when it comes to actually putting their ships on the line, they are the first to make themeselves conspicuous by their absence.
In short I could go on for ever ....... 
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Everbane
Underworld Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.01.06 10:26:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
#Theoreticly imagine you where one in high command of ISS, Your dream is falling apart around you. Theres little hope of any salvation yardy yar and your merc corps are no longer enough.......
What would you do with all the assets and corp funds at your disposal
While the peons fight you steal all the stuff...
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DrDevice
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.06 13:11:00 -
[90]
Personally i expect that when push comes to shove, that there will be a flurry of corp departures, massed confusion, an anouncment that ISS is finished as more corps leave, and that a few indiciduals will dissapear into the woodwork with more isk than they can carry.
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