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Wirewalker Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:07:00 - [1] Wow well done , why has this been kept quiet ? Anyway aparently this is what happened. "2007.01.07 20:54 As of this weekend, ISS Cassini Outpost corporations only revenue generating asset - ISS Cassini Outpost in EC-P8R was seized by Dusk and Dawn Alliance An overwhelming fleet Capital ships, Support Ships and D2's Titan participated in destroying the towers in Cassini - despite having over 48hrs stronium - due to identical timing of an assault by IAC/AAA/GoonFleet assault on the ISS Marginis station. The Dusk and Dawn corporations and member pilots involved in the assault include the original owners of the outpost. The original owners previously received 20bn isk for the sales of the stations to the EvE Public through the original ISS Managed Cassini IPO. The dividend accrued to date will be issued on 1st February. ISS have no immediate plans or capability to re-capture this station. An announcement will be made on the future of the ISSCA shares at that time." Tidied the shares mail up a little. Well Done D2/IAC/AAA/GoonFleet , as a shareholder in Cassini & a Blue to IAC This is a very nice move by all of you , well planned & executed.
Belid Hagen The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:09:00 - [2] Originally by: Wirewalker Wow well done , why has this been kept quiet ? because you post before reading
D2O HeavyWater Amarr Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:10:00 - [3] Looks like everyone was aware of this but you yarrr
Wirewalker Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:11:00 - [4] lol i only posted it because i hope there's some movies & screenshots.
Belid Hagen The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:14:00 - [5] which have also been posted
deadmaus Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:16:00 - [6] Well done guy's. (combat) Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Shipyard, wrecking for 488.1 damage.
Khermine Baddenash Sehmy Trading	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:45:00 - [7] The Trust is 20 billion isk paid for its Outpost then its alliance he taking it behind ultimate force with titan. Not greatest scam of the EVE, but scammers in EVE is normally anonymous.
Galbraith Caldari The X-Trading Company	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:56:00 - [8] ISS sleeps with the enemy, so sometimes its just politics.. btw, Trust ingame alliance was disbanded 10 months ago, so this deal was never on d2 ground, because d2 was founded later.
Khermine Baddenash Sehmy Trading	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:00:00 - [9] Edited by: Khermine Baddenash on 08/01/2007 12:57:20 Originally by: Galbraith ISS sleeps with the enemy, so sometimes its just politics.. btw, Trust ingame alliance was disbanded 10 months ago, so this deal was never on d2 ground, because d2 was founded later. Same people, same corps, differnet alliance name. Trust people and corps in D2. All politicians is thieves anyway. Trust not to be trusted. Watch if they sell it again and steal it again back months later. rofl
Dekiri Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Khermine Baddenash The Trust is 20 billion isk paid for its Outpost then its alliance he taking it behind ultimate force with titan. Not greatest scam of the EVE, but scammers in EVE is normally anonymous. Can't call it scam, while 20BN where payed for the outpost, trust did not have a choice to not pay and keep the outpost. ERGO: Ego's where hurt and hurt ego's usually shoot if they can, even if its many months later. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur
Khermine Baddenash Sehmy Trading	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Dekiri Can't call it scam, while 20BN where payed for the outpost, trust did not have a choice to not pay and keep the outpost. ERGO: Ego's where hurt and hurt ego's usually shoot if they can, even if its many months later. Trust not pay. Trust GET paid 20bn. Question? Did Trust say they robbed during IPO? did Trust say thank you for isk? did Trust say good deal at time but the scam later?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:07:00 - [12] Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/01/2007 13:05:43 Well, no real news, but the simultanous assault on that one and Marginis shows that Remedials plan that he announced in his TS speach has been successful: To get a good relation to D2 via RA as the diplomatic middleman. So much love now. Interesting times ahead. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Arimai hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:28:00 - [13] Good job D2.
k1Lz Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/01/2007 13:05:43 Well, no real news, but the simultanous assault on that one and Marginis shows that Remedials plan that he announced in his TS speach has been successful: To get a good relation to D2 via RA as the diplomatic middleman. So much love now. Interesting times ahead. :D DELTA is recruiting
Dekiri Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:31:00 - [15] Edited by: Dekiri on 08/01/2007 13:29:40 Originally by: Khermine Baddenash Originally by: Dekiri Can't call it scam, while 20BN where payed for the outpost, trust did not have a choice to not pay and keep the outpost. ERGO: Ego's where hurt and hurt ego's usually shoot if they can, even if its many months later. Trust not pay. Trust GET paid 20bn. Question? Did Trust say they robbed during IPO? did Trust say thank you for isk? did Trust say good deal at time but the scam later? Thanks for correcting me and then not even following up with halfway correct english. It was more of a typo =P I am well aware that trust did not pay but got payed 20BN. Take that into the context of my post. And yes of course they said good deal, because they had no choice AT ALL. They had these options: - Take money and shut up - Take the outpost back, just to have it taken again by BoB - Take nothing Wich option would you have taken? Ofc 20BN, but that doesn't compensate for the hurt ego =) So it is still no scam, it is late revenge for being forced to take a deal they did not really want. a bit mean towards the ISS, but definitly not a scam. Sad for the ISS, but still no scam. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:34:00 - [16] I knew investing was a bad idea Glad I didnt Originally by: omeega PICTURE TOO BIG, KGB INCOMING HAVE FUN.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:36:00 - [17] Wow, things are moving fast. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Khermine Baddenash Sehmy Trading	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Dekiri Thanks for correcting me and then not even following up with halfway correct english. It was more of a typo =P I am well aware that trust did not pay but got payed 20BN. Take that into the context of my post. And yes of course they said good deal, because they had no choice AT ALL. They had these options: - Take money and shut up - Take the outpost back, just to have it taken again by BoB - Take nothing Wich option would you have taken? Ofc 20BN, but that doesn't compensate for the hurt ego =) So it is still no scam, it is late revenge for being forced to take a deal they did not really want. a bit mean towards the ISS, but definitly not a scam. Sad for the ISS, but still no scam. ISSCA is not ISS. ISSCA is shares owning corp. Because ISS and Trust say good deal, pretend to EVE players they happy are, EVE players think all settled and buy shares. Lots of people, maybe some align to BOB others align to D2, people over all EVE buy the shares. The 20bn isk not from Count TaSessine and ISS people, 20bn isk from all over EVE. So Trust scam EVE players. ISS lose towers and moons and ships. But EVE players lose the 20bn isk. So yes, maybe not so good deal as Trust pretend druing IPO to get the money from all of EVE.
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.08 14:42:00 - [19] Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 08/01/2007 14:38:45 Exactly. If D2 wants to make this right, then return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders. They could have just refused the deal, accepted the loss, and kept their honor, or returned the 20 billion and kept some honor. If they keep the money and take the station, they show they have no honor. Do the right thing, D2. Return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders who paid it to you in good faith.
Cardassius Caldari Seraphin Technologies S.E.R.A	Posted - 2007.01.08 14:43:00 - [20] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Wow, things are moving fast. Easy when Dreads + Carriers are invincible in KALI. There is so much less risk deploying them now.
Dekiri Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2007.01.08 14:48:00 - [21] Edited by: Dekiri on 08/01/2007 14:46:44 Originally by: Khermine Baddenash Originally by: Dekiri Thanks for correcting me and then not even following up with halfway correct english. It was more of a typo =P I am well aware that trust did not pay but got payed 20BN. Take that into the context of my post. And yes of course they said good deal, because they had no choice AT ALL. They had these options: - Take money and shut up - Take the outpost back, just to have it taken again by BoB - Take nothing Wich option would you have taken? Ofc 20BN, but that doesn't compensate for the hurt ego =) So it is still no scam, it is late revenge for being forced to take a deal they did not really want. a bit mean towards the ISS, but definitly not a scam. Sad for the ISS, but still no scam. ISSCA is not ISS. ISSCA is shares owning corp. Because ISS and Trust say good deal, pretend to EVE players they happy are, EVE players think all settled and buy shares. Lots of people, maybe some align to BOB others align to D2, people over all EVE buy the shares. The 20bn isk not from Count TaSessine and ISS people, 20bn isk from all over EVE. So Trust scam EVE players. ISS lose towers and moons and ships. But EVE players lose the 20bn isk. So yes, maybe not so good deal as Trust pretend druing IPO to get the money from all of EVE. Everybody who is not completly clueless knew that an investment in the EC-P outpost was more then risky. If you did not know it and invested it is your fault. And yes trust me i am aware of what ISSCA is. If you check my corp history you will see that i am EX-ISSN(and proud so having flown with a bunch of really good guys) and i have myself defended EC-P versus various entities. And to be honest i would not have considered ISS-Cassini shares a safe investment EVER. Also if you think that the "eve-public" bought those shares i think you are very much mistaken. The bulk of shares of any ISS outpost are given out strategically or to ISS members. So don't get all hot about the "eve-public", when it fact it is not the eve-public, but a very small part of it. As for "giving back 20BN" I have nothing to do with D¦ at all btw, but i would laugh loud and hard if they did that. I actually doubt that the people who received the 20BN back then are currently of any significance within the D¦ alliance. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange	Posted - 2007.01.08 14:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 08/01/2007 14:38:45 Exactly. If D2 wants to make this right, then return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders. They could have just refused the deal, accepted the loss, and kept their honor, or returned the 20 billion and kept some honor. If they keep the money and take the station, they show they have no honor. Do the right thing, D2. Return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders who paid it to you in good faith. iss had get this outpost for " free"(getting control right from bob) ---->) shareholders paying them to get a dividende out of it----> Iss coudnt protect the station----> Bad contract and risk for share holders... good for iss----> earning isks from shares-----> Paying small dividende --- > making good prfit.... i think not d " had to pay back the shareholders.... Iss had to do it. cos they had earn the isks from u.... they coud not protect it... theyre Fault... my personal minds on it... Whats a human without dreams?..... DEATH
DANGEROUS PHANT0MS	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 08/01/2007 14:38:45 Exactly. If D2 wants to make this right, then return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders. They could have just refused the deal, accepted the loss, and kept their honor, or returned the 20 billion and kept some honor. If they keep the money and take the station, they show they have no honor. Do the right thing, D2. Return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders who paid it to you in good faith. umm D2 was not an entity when the ec debacle took place D2 was created AFTER that the deal was with TRUST Trust is NOT a political entity anymore I am AMAZED that it took this long for 'the right thing' to be done. My thoughts and observations on FACT are my own.
HatePeace LoveWar Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:11:00 - [24] /me Polishes off a Medal for D2. Truly an amazing feat.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:12:00 - [25] Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 08/01/2007 15:09:56 Originally by: Cardassius Originally by: FireFoxx80 Wow, things are moving fast. Easy when Dreads + Carriers are invincible in KALI. There is so much less risk deploying them now. Heh, I meant the whole thing. From what appeared to have the potential to be a long drawn out POS war between ISS and IAC, to a number of alliances having a go at ISS and them loosing an outpost. All in a few weeks. Originally by: Smoking Mirror Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 08/01/2007 14:38:45 Exactly. If D2 wants to make this right, then return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders. They could have just refused the deal, accepted the loss, and kept their honor, or returned the 20 billion and kept some honor. If they keep the money and take the station, they show they have no honor. Do the right thing, D2. Return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders who paid it to you in good faith. I think even ISS would laugh at this. IRL shares loose value as well as gain value, when companies go out of business the shareholders don't get their money back. When BoB took the AZN station, they didn't offer to reimburse ASCN the money spent in constructing the outpost; does BoB have 'no honor'? To be fair, this is not the first time someone has attacked an ISS POS. And it's not the first time there have been disagreements over ISS ownership of an outpost. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
VONLUCK88	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:18:00 - [26] snip Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. - Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:31:00 - [27] Yeah thats pretty much all wrong. LV Defending ISS doesnt mean those allainces will attack. As for D2 vs BoB there are plenty of other threads that talk about the logistical nightmare that would be for either side. And there's about a dozen and a half other reasons. snip Alt post. Any questions, email [email protected] - Kreul Intentions
Secondus Dawkins The Black Morias Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:34:00 - [28] Edited by: Secondus Dawkins on 08/01/2007 15:33:23 (edited for spelling) Originally by: Smoking Mirror Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 08/01/2007 14:38:45 Exactly. If D2 wants to make this right, then return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders. They could have just refused the deal, accepted the loss, and kept their honor, or returned the 20 billion and kept some honor. If they keep the money and take the station, they show they have no honor. Do the right thing, D2. Return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders who paid it to you in good faith. Let's clear this up. If someone beats me up and steals my house, I'm going to be cranky. If they then give it to their friend, I'm going to be crankier still. If their friend then offers me some pity money, I may just take it, but they did not just buy the rights to my house, they bought off their own guilt. They are illegal tenants and I will take the house back given any opportunity. Some might disagree with this interpretation, but as The Trust no longer exists as a political entity, it's members are not bound by any of its perceived obligations.
Dominie Dirtch Minmatar Revival.	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:37:00 - [29] Good on you D2! _________ My voice shall tear you asunder and show your vile ways.
thoradh AirHawk Alliance Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:50:00 - [30] Originally by: Secondus Dawkins Let's clear this up. If someone beats me up and steals my house, I'm going to be cranky. If they then give it to their friend, I'm going to be crankier still. If their friend then offers me some pity money, I may just take it, but they did not just buy the rights to my house, they bought off their own guilt. They are illegal tenants and I will take the house back given any opportunity. Some might disagree with this interpretation, but as The Trust no longer exists as a political entity, it's members are not bound by any of its perceived obligations. Exactly as the man says > > Noli illegitimi carborundum! >
Cker Heel ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:55:00 - [31] TRUST sold their outpost to ISS. The outpost was not a gift from BoB, and TRUST had no complaints about the deal. Their representative said so just last Friday- Originally by: "Phoenix Pryde" And finally, that was a simple business transaction between former TRUST IGA and ISS. The deal took some time, however finally was concluded to both parties satisfaction.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:57:00 - [32] Originally by: FireFoxx80 When BoB took the AZN station, they didn't offer to reimburse ASCN the money spent in constructing the outpost; does BoB have 'no honor'? We didn't pay ASCN for the outpost in the first place ;) Slightly different circumstances there :p But yeah, it's not a bob vs d2 thread, I just wanted to mention that was different as d2 had some sort of agreement in the first place (I have no clue what tbh nor do I care). dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.08 16:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 08/01/2007 14:38:45 Exactly. If D2 wants to make this right, then return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders. They could have just refused the deal, accepted the loss, and kept their honor, or returned the 20 billion and kept some honor. If they keep the money and take the station, they show they have no honor. Do the right thing, D2. Return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders who paid it to you in good faith. Or maybe the stockholders should have invested their ISK more wisely. There is always a risk in buying stock, and in this case, the risk was that the outpost could one day be taken back. Given the manner in which ISS acquired the outpost, I would have considered it a extrememly high risk investment. Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Damn what happens to all those people whose self esteem doesnt depend on eve then? Oh right, I'm asking in the wrong place
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.08 16:24:00 - [34] Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Smoking Mirror Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 08/01/2007 14:38:45 Exactly. If D2 wants to make this right, then return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders. They could have just refused the deal, accepted the loss, and kept their honor, or returned the 20 billion and kept some honor. If they keep the money and take the station, they show they have no honor. Do the right thing, D2. Return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders who paid it to you in good faith. Or maybe the stockholders should have invested their ISK more wisely. There is always a risk in buying stock, and in this case, the risk was that the outpost could one day be taken back. Given the manner in which ISS acquired the outpost, I would have considered it a extrememly high risk investment. Or maybe D2 should honor the deals its members make. Taking the money and then taking the station makes D2 a fraud. If they want the station, they should return the money they took for it. Or be known as a fraud. No more good guy chest-thumping for D2. Can't have it both ways.
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.08 16:26:00 - [35] Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 08/01/2007 16:35:02 Just a small observation: You cant on one hand state "The reason for invading is because some former TRUST members were disgruntled and wanted their old outpost back" (which they got paid for) and then on the other hand state "oh well, they took 20b for the outpost, but TRUST is dead so nobody currently should be giving back those 20b". Either TRUST died with all its assets and liabilities (including any grudges held by members) or it did not. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.08 16:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Or maybe D2 should honor the deals its members make. Taking the money and then taking the station makes D2 a fraud. If they want the station, they should return the money they took for it. Or be known as a fraud. No more good guy chest-thumping for D2. Can't have it both ways. Nobody forced ISS to take the outpost, but BoB forced TRUST to let someone else take it, so if anyone is to blame, it's BoB. Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Damn what happens to all those people whose self esteem doesnt depend on eve then? Oh right, I'm asking in the wrong place
Bigfood Gallente Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.08 17:40:00 - [37] Quote: Or maybe D2 should honor the deals its members make. Taking the money and then taking the station makes D2 a fraud. If they want the station, they should return the money they took for it. Or be known as a fraud. No more good guy chest-thumping for D2. Can't have it both ways. ok ok we are the baddies!
Raoul Endymion Gallente x13	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:09:00 - [38] ISS is gonna be without any outposts quite soon it seems.. x13 Website ~ x13 Killboard ~ x13 Recruitment
Taikun Gallente Reaver Academy	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Raoul Endymion ISS is gonna be without any outposts quite soon it seems.. God willing. Time for the eve world to stick the knife in deep and not stop twisting until every last ISS is incinerated in the depths of whatever hell spawned them. No mercy. Taikun
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:29:00 - [40] ah man, right after I invested 300 million in that new ISS IPO Ah well, cest la vie
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:30:00 - [41] Originally by: Taikun Originally by: Raoul Endymion ISS is gonna be without any outposts quite soon it seems.. God willing. Time for the eve world to stick the knife in deep and not stop twisting until every last ISS is incinerated in the depths of whatever hell spawned them. No mercy. Taikun I can imagine people not particularly caring for ISS, I know I don't. But I truely wonder whatever ISS could have done to warrant this kind of attitude towards them.
Taikun Gallente Reaver Academy	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Malachon Draco I can imagine people not particularly caring for ISS, I know I don't. But I truely wonder whatever ISS could have done to warrant this kind of attitude towards them. Try being ex-ISSN defending their carebear azzes for months only to be attacked by them on your first day back in game from a break, losing millions of ISK and having their directors tell you to basically to Foog Off. Anyones attitude towards them will change pretty damn quick. May they rot in the depths of a racid pit of vile evil. I spit on them and their endevours every last one of them. Taikun
Void Hawk Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.08 19:15:00 - [43] As a member of D2 for several months i can say this. 1. The rank and file didn't like ISS. A lot of people wanted any excuse to kill them. And their nap status with D2 wasn't universally popular. 2. ISS pilots giving information on d2 fleet movements was a deal breaker. D2 took that very seriously. And it gave those in D2 who wanted to kill ISS an opening. 3.As for ISS Cassini. Yes trust was paid 20b for it. But they didn't have a choice in the matter. It was forced on them. Still the deal was honored until ISS was seen as way too close to D2's enemies and were seen as a security risk. ISS brought this on themselves. ISS is supposedly neutral. Neutrality was their protection. When they were seen as no longer neutral D2 had several really good reasons to remove them. ISS was a good idea but they made some bad decisions and didn't police their members well enough. Now they're paying the price.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.08 19:22:00 - [44] Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/01/2007 19:23:12 Originally by: Void Hawk Still the deal was honored until ISS was seen as way too close to D2's enemies and were seen as a security risk. Close to who ? Close to LV ? Because of some outpost contract somewhere in the south and some problems that ISS has with IAC and others who got involved there. Why does D2 care about that ? Oh wait... CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Resipsa Loquitor Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 19:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Raoul Endymion ISS is gonna be without any outposts quite soon it seems.. Really? Does LV know that D2/IAC/whomever is going to roll freely into their space to take the other ISS outposts that are in Tenerifis? I think they'd be quite interested in that situation . . . . --- John McCreedy and EDF never paid their complex runners for the 100s of billions gathered in the name of EDF and ASCN. Who's the slave master now, McGreedy? Where's the money? Pay ARC!
darkfuntime Minmatar ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.08 19:42:00 - [46] Sure gald i didnt buy any iss shares.
Serenity Steele Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations	Posted - 2007.01.08 22:19:00 - [47] Edited by: Serenity Steele on 08/01/2007 22:47:30 Edit: Corrected Past and current corp alliance membership The quote in the OP is the announcement sent to ISSCA shareholders via sharevote when the station was taken. Further announcements on what will happen to the shares will be made before the next dividend (1 Feb). Just to clear up a few things being discussed in this thread: Originally by: Khermine Baddenash ISSCA is not ISS...The 20bn isk not from Count TaSessine and ISS people, 20bn isk from all over EVE. So Trust scam EVE players. ISS lose towers and moons and ships. But EVE players lose the 20bn isk. So yes, maybe not so good deal as Trust pretend during IPO to get the money from all of EVE. Originally by: Dekiri ...if you think that the "eve-public" bought those shares i think you are very much mistaken. The bulk of shares of any ISS outpost are given out strategically or to ISS members. So don't get all hot about the "eve-public", when it fact it is not the eve-public, but a very small part of it. http://eve-iss.com/cassini/images/isscaipo.gif Originally by: Dekiri I actually doubt that the people who received the 20BN back then are currently of any significance within the D¦ alliance. <G>[ASW] Asgard Schiffswerften corp kept 6 POS in the EC-P8R station after the agreement <D2>[ASW] Asgard Schiffswerften corp claimed system Sovereignty, when the <ISS> POS were killed. The original members of Trust were: <TRUST>[3-I] Infinite Improbability Inc. <TRUST>[XT] The X-Trading Company <TRUST>[OE] Omega Enterprises Now they are all: <D2>[3-I] Infinite Improbability Inc. <D2>[XT] The X-Trading Company <D2>[OE] Omega Enterprises Please do not post images directly. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Dal Thrax Caldari House Of Troy	Posted - 2007.01.08 22:21:00 - [48] Originally by: Khermine Baddenash Originally by: Dekiri Can't call it scam, while 20BN where payed for the outpost, trust did not have a choice to not pay and keep the outpost. ERGO: Ego's where hurt and hurt ego's usually shoot if they can, even if its many months later. Trust not pay. Trust GET paid 20bn. Question? Did Trust say they robbed during IPO? did Trust say thank you for isk? did Trust say good deal at time but the scam later? Is there any way I could get the cliff notes on this? Who forced Trust to sell and what peace treaty just went up in smoke?
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.08 22:25:00 - [49] Originally by: Serenity Steele <TRUST>[ASW] Asgard Schiffswerften corp kept 6 POS in the EC-P8R station after the agreement <D2>[ASW] Asgard Schiffswerften corp claimed system Sovereignty, when the <ISS> POS were killed. ASW has never been a member of TRUST
Serenity Steele Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations	Posted - 2007.01.08 22:52:00 - [50] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Serenity Steele <TRUST>[ASW] Asgard Schiffswerften corp kept 6 POS in the EC-P8R station after the agreement <D2>[ASW] Asgard Schiffswerften corp claimed system Sovereignty, when the <ISS> POS were killed. ASW has never been a member of TRUST Fixed it to <G> - that correct now? New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
Turkantho Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.08 22:58:00 - [51] so what serentity ? ASW had POS in EC before TRUST was ever conceived by it's founders, heck we build our first POS in EC one maybe two month after POS were introduced in EVE any you had even the audacity to try and charge us rent for the moons once you took over control of that outpost. ________ been there, done that, got the t-shirt
Abbas ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.08 22:59:00 - [52] Edited by: Abbas on 08/01/2007 22:57:01 Well.. If anyone really reads every post.. which I doubt they do.. I can say that I've seen a few that have read, "TRUST made the deal with ISS, not D2" or something along those lines. Having said this I think that every reject who chooses to only read what he or she wants without getting the whole story is a complete boob and should voluntarily come to EC-P8R and be vaporized without question. The 20BN ISK that is in question was not paid to us, nor did we receive any part of it. So please, get on with your life and let D2 supremecy continue in the north. Thank you ;) [D2] Forever!
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:07:00 - [53] Quote: so if anyone is to blame, it's BoB. And normal service is resumed... .... Playing EVE on easy mode since May 2003.
Balthorus Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:16:00 - [54] Edited by: Balthorus on 08/01/2007 23:13:39 LOL guys, this is a non sence thread. D¦ declared war against ISS. We attacked them and take their stations. THAT'S ALL, why are you talking about things concerning TRUST more than 1 year ago ? Why should D¦ paid ISS for a station taken in a state of war ? Politics and diplomacy are different now than 1 year ago, D¦ have no reason to pay ISS. And in the case of you, guys, are right, what about all the money made by ISS regarding this station during the entire year ? Should ISS pay D¦ for it ? Well, this discution is really nonsence. IT IS WAR. You guys are ungry because you own many ISS shares. That's it !
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Quote: so if anyone is to blame, it's BoB. And normal service is resumed... We should change our alliance name to Canada, then we can all sing "Blame Canada, blame Canada...". Blog
Oreh Anavrin ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:21:00 - [56] Originally by: Serenity Steele Originally by: Khermine Baddenash ISSCA is not ISS...The 20bn isk not from Count TaSessine and ISS people, 20bn isk from all over EVE. So Trust scam EVE players. ISS lose towers and moons and ships. But EVE players lose the 20bn isk. So yes, maybe not so good deal as Trust pretend during IPO to get the money from all of EVE. Ya und? What difference does it make? Eve players invested in a station, that is a risk, people take risks and sometimes they win and sometimes they lose. Scam how? TRUST didn't have a choice in selling the outpost, if they wouldn't have sold it BoB would have taken it back. You think BOB moved in for fun? No, they made a (good) move to wipe out capital ship yards and if TRUST was allowed to get back on it's feet it would just rebuild. Consider it revenge, if you like, but I am no higher up and don't speak on behalf of D2 or trust. I'm seeing this the same way the rest of you are.
Abbas ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:27:00 - [57] This station is the spoils of war, just as it was when bob took it from trust. Although Im all for ISS paying D2 ;).. gimme gimme gimme LOL
Crozon Crozon Corp	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Malachon Draco I can imagine people not particularly caring for ISS, I know I don't. But I truely wonder whatever ISS could have done to warrant this kind of attitude towards them. Disgruntled former employee, who seems to think that entering a private(ie not a public ISS station) outpost system, after having left ISS and swearing in local will not result in him being shot at. I absolutely 100% guarantee that he will reply to this post with more whining and drivel; you get used to it after a while. In fact, it adds a bit of humour to every ISS thread, I find!
Crozon Crozon Corp	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Void Hawk 2. ISS pilots giving information on d2 fleet movements was a deal breaker. D2 took that very seriously. And it gave those in D2 who wanted to kill ISS an opening. Which resulted at the time in ISS being set to negative for a while. Also please note that the entire corp that those guilty members got booted from ISS pretty quick.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:39:00 - [60] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Or maybe D2 should honor the deals its members make. Taking the money and then taking the station makes D2 a fraud. If they want the station, they should return the money they took for it. Or be known as a fraud. No more good guy chest-thumping for D2. Can't have it both ways. snip be nice. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:42:00 - [61] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Or maybe D2 should honor the deals its members make. Taking the money and then taking the station makes D2 a fraud. If they want the station, they should return the money they took for it. Or be known as a fraud. No more good guy chest-thumping for D2. Can't have it both ways. In real life, contracts entered into under duress are not legally enforceable. Trust was forced, with a gun at its head, to "sell" the station. As such Trust's sucessors did nothing morally or ethically wrong in reclaming their station - especially when that station posed a security threat to their space. Congrats to D2 on a well planned and well executed operation. BTW, the opinions expressed are my own - not my corp's or my alliance's
Tahitian Treat	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:07:00 - [62] Its 0.0, lifes a *****. ISS aren't special. D2 doesn't need a reason and if people think they are a fraud then they should note that in future deals.
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:10:00 - [63]
Muesli Monster	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:14:00 - [64] YAY, it turned into a MS Paint thread, BYOP! You want a Smack'n'flames with tha Picture dude?
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:14:00 - [65] Originally by: Rabb Darktide In real life, contracts entered into under duress are not legally enforceable. Trust was forced, with a gun at its head, to "sell" the station. (...) If that is the case and the contract itself is void, that would also mean the basis for a payment of ISS Cassini shares worth 20b ISK is also void, hence the payment would need to be reversed ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:16:00 - [66] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: Rabb Darktide In real life, contracts entered into under duress are not legally enforceable. Trust was forced, with a gun at its head, to "sell" the station. (...) If that is the case and the contract itself is void, that would also mean the basis for a payment of ISS Cassini shares worth 20b ISK is also void, hence the payment would need to be reversed And D2 could subsequently sue for damages for 10 months of 'illegal' squatting. Anyway, RL analogies don't work in EVE.
Dragerest Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:19:00 - [67] i guess thats what i get for being gone over the weekend. i missed all the fun. wts: 0.0 outpost? For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:19:00 - [68] Originally by: Rabb Darktide contracts entered into under duress are not legally enforceable I reckon the duress was already over at that point; Trust had no longer the station in their possession. They could have denied the deal without further harm I believe. To me it seemed the deal's main purpose was to secure the sitution; make Trust corps content so Eve public could safely invest. Apparently they weren't, thought greedily welcomed the ISK. But as someone pointed out; D2 apparently follows 'realpolitik'. Stick on agreements only for as long as the situation is benefitical. Honor doesn't get you that far in RL nor in Eve. -Lasse
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:19:00 - [69] as far as eve goes the rule of the ship gun or missile barrel rules and therefore he with the highest ability to kill, take down POSes and defend the sapce are therefore the ones that control the space - ISS lost it unless BOB MC and ISS and friends retake it well its back to d2. All posts made by myself represent my personal opinion only - they do not represent the rest of the privateer alliacne unless they decide to agree with what im saying
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:20:00 - [70] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: Rabb Darktide In real life, contracts entered into under duress are not legally enforceable. Trust was forced, with a gun at its head, to "sell" the station. (...) If that is the case and the contract itself is void, that would also mean the basis for a payment of ISS Cassini shares worth 20b ISK is also void, hence the payment would need to be reversed And D2 could subsequently sue for damages for 10 months of 'illegal' squatting. Anyway, RL analogies don't work in EVE. ... and would have trouble proving the damages received by not being able to operate that station, as the TRUST profits were not generated by the outpost, but the POS in the system But you are correct, RL analogies rarely work in MMOs. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
Serenity Steele Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:22:00 - [71] I'm just presenting the facts raised. If you want my opinion I'm happy to give it: [/opinion] Talk of D2 paying ISS any compensation for taking their stations is unrealistic, unprecendented, and unlikley. However, <D2> should serious consider compensating the Public Shareholders, here is my opinion as to why: The share market in EvE is promoting EvE as a game in the Real world. The recognition of property rights and share values in EvE rely on the ethics of the Alliances/Corps/People to follow their commitments. <D2> is the amlagamation of <G> and <TRUST> corporations involved in the original settlement of EC-P8R, and for all intensive purposes are ethically the same group. When the D2/G/TRUST corporations requested that ISS sell their shares through an IPO, to get them that 20bn, _on agreement they would't retake the stations, D2/G/TRUST, BOB and ISS created a precedent in the development of EvE society - ethical recognition of properties rights. D2/G/TRUST recognised these property rights by accepting shares in the propery management corp ISS Cassini as payment for their station. The D2/G/TRUST corps proceeded to sell all their shares to the Eve Public via the IPO. That 20bn helped them build the current empire. Now, D2/G/TRUST have taken the station control from the ISS Cassini corporation they sold their shares in, to the Eve Public. This is IMO, ethically wrong and dishouring the contract made. It would be the same were BoB to take the station. If it were another alliance, it wouldn't matter. Therefor, Compensating (at least in part) the shareholders, would not only show D2 to be an alliance with indviduals of strong ethical character and earn significant respect, it will promote EvE. [/opinion] For their part, ISS are working on a financial package to compensate shareholders. (Using funds external to the ISSO IPO). New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
Abbas ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:23:00 - [72] LOL.. just found this amusing :P 2007.01.07 13:15:07 Combat Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes ISS Cassini Outpost, wrecking for 489.6 damage. 2007.01.07 13:54:49 Notify The station ISS Cassini Outpost has been captured by Dusk and Dawn Holding corporation!
Phoenix Pryde Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc	Posted - 2007.01.09 01:31:00 - [73] partially as general response, partially in direct response to Serenity Steele... Naturally personal opinions are fine, but some of yours read either like blissfull unawareness of facts or wishfull thinking. But since an official representative of ISS gives his 'opinion' i guess me as former spokesman of TRUST (and i mean the now dead alliance) can give some facts and opinions too. First off, i partially feel a bit personally about that, as i was the one who officially dealt as the TRUST alliance spokesman with Count T as ISS counterpart. When i read parts of what you post i am not entirely sure if you (Serenity Steele) actually are aware of our deal with Count T. But some facts - TRUST alliance retook the EC OP after BoB left again. ISS publically agreed to take it over in agreement with BoB, only then was contacted by us. - TRUST then offered ISS the OP for 20b ISK. ISS agreed to that. I agreed with Count T about that. Count T himself, representative of ISS and not some ISSCA holding company dealt with me, and sent me the 20b ISK when he finally had the money. - TRUST did NEVER held any shares in the ISSCA IPO contrary to what ISS always depictured. You made it look like we sold shares to shareholders, we didnt. We sold to ISS. The alliance ISS, no IPO holding. ISS created ISSCA and sold shares to the public and took with that full responsibility to its shareholders. (P.S: i fully understand that it makes sense to let it look that way for PR reasons, but it quite simply was not the case) 0.0 is risk, for everybody, everywhere. No alliance is exempt from that. Other neutral alliances like NAGA, or TRUST felt that. Thinking that everybody accepts your neutrality for all time, especially when you act in some ways you did, is nothing but naive. Every investor in a station IPO in 0.0 should be aware that there is no 100% security in 0.0, for nobody and nothing. And finally, some ppl seem to think that D2 is responsible for actions of the former TRUST alliance, or also G alliance for that matter. Which, well, isnt true in any way. Some corps might be the same, but thats it. TRUST as alliance, all its political agreements, etc.. died in april when it disbanded. When ever ppl find it suitable for their opinions they attribute D2 things from former G or TRUST, which partially are part of D2. I guess that would be like making LV responsible for some stuff that 5 did, or which maybe even CA did? Bit pointless and not very realistic :P Fact is, the TRUST alliance died over 9 months ago. TRUST died without any promises or deals left open, everything was concluded and settled. If anybody is responsible to investors its ISS, for ISS created this 'high risk' ventures. However ultimately i dont even think that an entity like ISS in its current shape can be held responsible. Every investor should have been aware of risks, and that ISS could not guarantee eternal security for all its stations given its structure. TRUST Shop // Infinite Improbability Inc [3-I]
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 01:36:00 - [74] as a ISS shareholder as long as they do the right thing compensation wise ill be happy. All posts made by myself represent my personal opinion only - they do not represent the rest of the privateer alliacne unless they decide to agree with what im saying
sartorii Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.09 01:42:00 - [75] Edited by: sartorii on 09/01/2007 01:39:30 Originally by: Phoenix Pryde If anybody is responsible to investors its ISS, for ISS created this 'high risk' ventures. However ultimately i dont even think that an entity like ISS in its current shape can be held responsible. Every investor should have been aware of risks, and that ISS could not guarantee eternal security for all its stations given its structure. qft. the only thing you 'own' in Eve, is that which you can defend. Invest your isk and expect another to defend (or refund) your (bad) investment.. lollerskates... it is YOUR RISK, and YOUR LOSS... investment security is a myth, and one only fools and children believe.... edit for parsing *To Bad Ignorance isnt Painful*
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.09 01:47:00 - [76] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 09/01/2007 01:45:27 Originally by: Dekiri Originally by: Khermine Baddenash The Trust is 20 billion isk paid for its Outpost then its alliance he taking it behind ultimate force with titan. Not greatest scam of the EVE, but scammers in EVE is normally anonymous. Can't call it scam, while 20BN where payed for the outpost, trust did not have a choice to not pay and keep the outpost. ERGO: Ego's where hurt and hurt ego's usually shoot if they can, even if its many months later. Or D2 decided 'why let IAC and others have our old station?' and took it back. Had I been a member of D2, seeing the station's doom by another's hand, I'd have wanted it back instead of risking another having it. I'm curious to know what D2's plans are though. they could have a much easier time allowing it to be a free-trade area than ISS could. After all, we have to be reasonable. ISS's security of the area could never come close to what D2 can put out to enforce its law there. If D2 decide to give neutrality a chance there, it could make the outpost very profitable for them if it ends up being a situation where pirating there ends in getting blobbed to death by D2. edit: To clarify, I know D2 hit one station, while IAC and co hit another, but if D2 hadn't wanted to take back their old station, then I'd be surprised if IAC left it alone since they seem to be on quite the warpath against ISS now. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Dr Smog Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.01.09 01:53:00 - [77] Originally by: Serenity Steele for all intensive purposes If you're going to (mis-)use this phrase at least write it correctly. The phrase is "to all intents and purposes" - precisely what you think an "intensive" purpose is baffles me. Apologies if you're not an English speaker and are just parroting something you heard.
Master Spoonman Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 02:19:00 - [78] Originally by: Serenity Steele However, <D2> should serious consider compensating the Public Shareholders, here is my opinion as to why: The share market in EvE is promoting EvE as a game in the Real world. <D2> is the amlagamation of <G> and <TRUST> corporations involved in the original settlement of EC-P8R, and for all intensive purposes are ethically the same group. I don't know much about the original history behind this, but I don't think we should compensate anyone. In times of war the winners don't pay the losers for their losses. AFAIK there were/may have been hard feelings toward ISS within D2. D2 began a war upon ISS for insults such as when D2 fleet movement was leaked by members of ISS, a 'neutral' 0.0 entity. D2 is much more than "is the amlagamation of <G> and <TRUST>", indeed, some corporations had nothing to do with those issues. (These opinions are my own interpretation of the events as a pilot who had a front row seat in the EC fights.) *** Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me
Renax ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:42:00 - [79] Edited by: Renax on 09/01/2007 03:39:56 Half the corps in D2 were not in either G or Trust, and all of the corps from G and Trust did not join D2. If you Serenity kept control of your areas and members, and kept straight neutrality I am sure D2 would not have had to come take your stations. Every person who bought an ISSC share have already had their initial investment repaid with divedends, sorry you cannot continue to profit at other's expense any longer. Having ISS control one of the least secure entrances into 0.0 is just a breeding ground for pirates in the area, and now the open door is now closed.
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.09 05:56:00 - [80] Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 09/01/2007 05:52:33 Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2007.01.09 06:22:00 - [81] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 09/01/2007 05:52:33 didn't think so.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.09 06:24:00 - [82] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 09/01/2007 05:52:33 Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
rodgerd ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 07:00:00 - [83] Originally by: Cardassius Originally by: FireFoxx80 Wow, things are moving fast. Easy when Dreads + Carriers are invincible in KALI. There is so much less risk deploying them now. Dreads? Carriers? We D¦ carebears don't understand these things. We took EC with smartbomb equipped mining barges. -- Not the opinions of my corp or my alliance.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.09 07:25:00 - [84] Originally by: Master Spoonman D2 began a war upon ISS for insults such as when D2 fleet movement was leaked by members of ISS, a 'neutral' 0.0 entity. And were promptly booted from the alliance for doing so. That argument doesn't hold any water, as has been pointed out multiple times. I'm sure there are other reasons but people seem to like to bring this one up every time. The fact is that the situation was unpreventable and was handled very effectively. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.09 08:50:00 - [85] Originally by: Serenity Steele However, <D2> should serious consider compensating the Public Shareholders, here is my opinion as to why: The share market in EvE is promoting EvE as a game in the Real world. The recognition of property rights and share values in EvE rely on the ethics of the Alliances/Corps/People to follow their commitments. I'd just like to point out that EVE is generally advertised as a free universe to express your dark side (espionage, spying, scamming, all that and more). While people running EGSE and all those legitimate IPO:s are all nice and good at what they do, they should take a hint: After several years of development there's still no ingame mechanics to support real share holding and trading in EVE and as such it can't be used as an advertisement for the game itself. And for ISS' situation...the first time I heard about someone seriously going to wipe ISS out of (Southern) universe was about 9 months ago. Back then it was ASCN who was looking into ISS' outposts as a way to reinforce their own outpost systems in form of constellation sovereignity but when it became apparent that constellation sovereignity wouldn't come in Kali they scratched that thought. Anyway, don't think that all this grief towards ISS has been the result of few months of badly chosen words, there is a lot of shareholders and even ex-ISS members who would love to see entire ISS in flames. And yes, I'm both ex-shareholder and ex-ISS member.
Naldo Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.09 09:03:00 - [86] I am quite baffeled why they feel D2 owe people an explination. You made an investment and now its gone **** up. get over it. Really not more needs to be said. Well played D2, personally I seen it coming a long time ago, it was more a matter of which northern alliance did it though. To ISS. Things are tough for you right now and whether you deserve it or not (I am not here to argue that issue it has been done to death) You still achieved a lot and should pat yourselves on the back. To myself. Stop forum whoring you sheep loving prat. Naldo out.
rodgerd ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 09:09:00 - [87] Originally by: Nyphur EDIT: With regards D2 taking Cassini, let's be clear about one thing. At the time they took it, regardless of past agreements, the outpost did not belong to ISS. The outpost belonged to shareholders and was managed by ISS on their behalf. D2 haven't taken anything from ISS, they've stolen public property. Well, I guess you'll also be queuing up to lecture BoB about stealing ASCN's property next, right? If ASCN's shareholders cared about the station, they would have shown up to defend it. -- Not the opinions of my corp or my alliance.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.09 09:16:00 - [88] Originally by: rodgerd Well, I guess you'll also be queuing up to lecture BoB about stealing ASCN's property next, right? If ASCN's shareholders cared about the station, they would have shown up to defend it. I've been roger'd! Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 11:08:00 - [89] Edited by: Gyro DuAquin1 on 09/01/2007 11:12:10 the "station dont belong to iss" is quiet funny, cause iss told their shareholdes to take care of it as a mananger. As therefore iss made loads of mistake to be not as neutral as mentioned in their buisness plan which in the end caused the lose of stations in .0 So for me its not that the shareholders have to blaim the alliances taking over the iss station but more the iss managment which wasnt able to maintain its neutralitly in a .0 envoirment, which brings me to the conclussion that the managment of iss has to pay out the shareholders from their wallet. See the Train moves in both directions. Edit That iss is just an alliance with tons of corp to which belonged the pos, assets and whatnot is no excuse. The iss plan is mentioned as a big plan and therefore u have to see iss as one giant corp which was created to give ppl the option to invest in .0 and for smaller corps to gain a foothold in .0, but nonetheless ppl in those corps still have to focus on the aim to work for their shareholders, and with too many political mistakes iss mised that. I said before in random other threads that iss ran out of course with talking to much to other alliances. There is no need to be alligned with some alliances, but u should have tried to maintain a better relationship with the big players just that a situation as now doenst occur. But u missed that, tons of ppl have hard feelings towards iss, cause once the rumors spread about scouting fleets for others or give ppl are save haven is not a good idea. Nonetheless for me iss failed totaly i sold my shares as soon as i had no more trust in the neutrailtly of the alliance iss. which was a big factor in ur buisness plan.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.09 11:21:00 - [90] I don't see this whole argument over compensation. Surely the EC-P8R outpost is an ISS investment gone bad is all. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
HatePeace LoveWar Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 11:42:00 - [91] Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 09/01/2007 08:26:20 Originally by: Master Spoonman D2 began a war upon ISS for insults such as when D2 fleet movement was leaked by members of ISS, a 'neutral' 0.0 entity. And were promptly booted from the alliance for doing so. That argument doesn't hold any water, as has been pointed out multiple times. I'm sure there are other reasons but people seem to like to bring this one up every time. The fact is that the situation was unpreventable and was handled very effectively. EDIT: With regards D2 taking Cassini, let's be clear about one thing. At the time they took it, regardless of past agreements, the outpost did not belong to ISS. The outpost belonged to shareholders and was managed by ISS on their behalf. D2 haven't taken anything from ISS, they've stolen public property. ISS's assets in the area are the member corp POS, ships, modules etc. The stations we run are not ISS assets, they belong entirely to the corps, alliances and players who purchased shares in their IPOs. I don't expect that any other alliance will ever respect the public ownership of ISS-managed outposts but the bottom line is that they are attacking and siezing the assets of a diverse group of individuals, corps and alliances that they are not politically hostile with. Some would call that piracy, others would just call it theft. Personally, I just think it's a shame. We're currently discussing how to handle reimbursement to shareholders and if D2 had any honour they would recognise that they have just stolen shareholder property (of which BoB was a fairly big shareholder) and would contribute some isk toward reimbursing the shareholders. Regardless of whether or not D2 wants this to have been a clean cut "spoils of war" deal for them and a simple D2 vs ISS attack, it is not that simple. For example, with the share percentage ownership that BoB have in Cassini, D2 have just effectively nicked a few billion off them (unless they've sold the shares since then). I know that's a drop in the ocean for them but I wonder what they think of that. Another fact is that losing the outposts, while it may spook some member corps, will not ruin ISS as an organisation. Far from it, the ISSO IPO will not be harmed by it significantly as there are plenty of other places to trade to make the same level of profit. The ISS as an organisation is our asset and is what makes the ISS trade hub outposts worthwhile. Most of the outposts themselves are mediocre at best, placed in areas with little strategic benefit and poor natural resources. Morale high ground and idealism gets you nowhere in eve. Only two things get you what you want: Guns and ISK. You've been overwhelmed by one of these and the other isn't enough to save you.
God's Army Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:12:00 - [92] Originally by: Secondus Dawkins Edited by: Secondus Dawkins on 08/01/2007 15:33:23 (edited for spelling) Originally by: Smoking Mirror Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 08/01/2007 14:38:45 Exactly. If D2 wants to make this right, then return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders. They could have just refused the deal, accepted the loss, and kept their honor, or returned the 20 billion and kept some honor. If they keep the money and take the station, they show they have no honor. Do the right thing, D2. Return the 20 billion to Cassini shareholders who paid it to you in good faith. Let's clear this up. If someone beats me up and steals my house, I'm going to be cranky. If they then give it to their friend, I'm going to be crankier still. If their friend then offers me some pity money, I may just take it, but they did not just buy the rights to my house, they bought off their own guilt. They are illegal tenants and I will take the house back given any opportunity. Some might disagree with this interpretation, but as The Trust no longer exists as a political entity, it's members are not bound by any of its perceived obligations. well said, GJ D2 ---- Long life the warrios of God R0ADKILL ALLIANCE Killboard
Logan Williams Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:14:00 - [93] Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Quote: so if anyone is to blame, it's BoB. And normal service is resumed... We should change our alliance name to Canada, then we can all sing "Blame Canada, blame Canada...". Which of the Canadian kids are you, Terrence or Lawrance? I was not a part of G or TRUST when the outpost changed hands the first time. I do remember BoB and ASCN and whatever friends the two of them invited camping down EC and blowing up TRUST ship yards, taking the station, and immediately giving it to ISS. I don't think the choice to give it to ISS was a BoB or an ASCN plan but, simply a "Well, we've got it. What the hell do we do with it now?" plan. At any rate, the deal was at gunpoint. I'm sure that ISS might understand it better if put in terms of AAA taking the station in Catch and giving it to IAC. IAC gives them 20 bil "to look good for the shareholders". Eventually, ISS would want that outpost back. As far as "The ISS outpost in Teneferis" I, at least, was always under the impression that it was an LV outpost, built and maintained by ISS.
Mariko San Saints Surrounded	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:23:00 - [94] Originally by: Cardassius Originally by: FireFoxx80 Wow, things are moving fast. Easy when Dreads + Carriers are invincible in KALI. There is so much less risk deploying them now. I think if you look at the ASCN lossboard you will see this statement is not quite correct :) Though i agree they are much tougher to kill now, all the pirate gankers are gonna want to get one.
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:23:00 - [95] Originally by: Cardassius Originally by: FireFoxx80 Wow, things are moving fast. Easy when Dreads + Carriers are invincible in KALI. There is so much less risk deploying them now. I've been away five months and missed the changes .. could you give me a brief reason why this is, or point me at a thread that'll show me please?
Mariko San Saints Surrounded	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:27:00 - [96] Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Smoking Mirror Or maybe D2 should honor the deals its members make. Taking the money and then taking the station makes D2 a fraud. If they want the station, they should return the money they took for it. Or be known as a fraud. No more good guy chest-thumping for D2. Can't have it both ways. Nobody forced ISS to take the outpost, but BoB forced TRUST to let someone else take it, so if anyone is to blame, it's BoB. Poor D2, even in their finest moment someone has to go turn this onto a BoB thread
Mariko San Saints Surrounded	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:29:00 - [97] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg Originally by: Cardassius Originally by: FireFoxx80 Wow, things are moving fast. Easy when Dreads + Carriers are invincible in KALI. There is so much less risk deploying them now. I've been away five months and missed the changes .. could you give me a brief reason why this is, or point me at a thread that'll show me please? Basically all ships got a % boost in "hit points" and so with capital ships the boost was very great making them much harder to kill. Wow I am whoring this thread like a mofo
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 13:57:00 - [98] Quote: Poor D2, even in their finest moment someone has to go turn this onto a BoB thread This isnt a d2 thread so feel free to continue random tinfil hattery and pointless debating, we dont mind :P ------------ All hail! Leader of the pod brigade..
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 14:00:00 - [99] Originally by: Mariko San Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Smoking Mirror Or maybe D2 should honor the deals its members make. Taking the money and then taking the station makes D2 a fraud. If they want the station, they should return the money they took for it. Or be known as a fraud. No more good guy chest-thumping for D2. Can't have it both ways. Nobody forced ISS to take the outpost, but BoB forced TRUST to let someone else take it, so if anyone is to blame, it's BoB. Poor D2, even in their finest moment someone has to go turn this onto a BoB thread I can't imagine that D2 will want this remembered as their finest moment .... Playing EVE on easy mode since May 2003.
Turkantho Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 18:08:00 - [100] damn right Fi T'Zeh and what almost all people are forgeting here is that we attacked P-2TTL as well, even before we attacked EC, due to reinforcement timers EC was just the first to fall of those two stations. ________ been there, done that, got the t-shirt
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.09 18:53:00 - [101] Originally by: Mariko San Originally by: Blitz'Krieg Originally by: Cardassius Originally by: FireFoxx80 Wow, things are moving fast. Easy when Dreads + Carriers are invincible in KALI. There is so much less risk deploying them now. I've been away five months and missed the changes .. could you give me a brief reason why this is, or point me at a thread that'll show me please? Basically all ships got a % boost in "hit points" and so with capital ships the boost was very great making them much harder to kill. Wow I am whoring this thread like a mofo IIRC T1 ships got +50% HP, T2 ships got +25..30% and capital ships got +400%.
Cupdeez Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 19:13:00 - [102] Quote: edit: To clarify, I know D2 hit one station, while IAC and co hit another, but if D2 hadn't wanted to take back their old station, then I'd be surprised if IAC left it alone since they seem to be on quite the warpath against ISS now. I would like to point out a few things. IAC was after ISS but only in the South. The ISS station in the south was IAC's only target. (To hard to defend 2 systems so far apart) D2 took the ISS(North)station because they wanted so secure there boarders. The ISS station was an easy gateway into there home system. Now my View ISS does not belong owning control of any 0.0 space. Some people might say you ôcarebearö you killed an industry corp. One might respond if you canÆt defend your space in 0.0 then you should not be in 0.0. I know ISS has some big friends like LV, MC, and BOB but they can't always help or be the major power for someone elseÆs fight. The south and the north are both changing fast. BOB has flexed its muscles and now D2, RED, TFC, and IAC are following suit. Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo Davip
Belid Hagen The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.09 19:59:00 - [103] why do people continue to list BoB as a friend and backer of ISS? they shoot us at every oppertunity, and we do the same (when we dont run :) )
Omega Bloodstone Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 20:25:00 - [104] Originally by: Belid Hagen why do people continue to list BoB as a friend and backer of ISS? they shoot us at every oppertunity, and we do the same (when we dont run :) ) It has been proven, weather it be by payment or NAP, that Bob will come in at the end of a time of war, generally after attrition has set in, to win the day. This happened the last time FIX was being mauled by the Coilition at the time. Though I assume if not for payment that it was because of the strategic imbalance close to their region. Hostiles to close basically if FIX fell or they were paid off. Nothing against them, smart even, but they have also been known to just takes poeples space as well, even if a war has not previously been set forward for ****s and giggles. It is just assumed by many that they will eventually try and grab the headlines with all the conflict stemming from Curse/Catch/Great Wildlands ect regions. Just a matter of when, and if not...it's a first. Noteing they kinda did when they hired MC to come to the area. People just basing opinions around the table. who really knows...
Chin LoPan The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:05:00 - [105] Originally by: Master Spoonman D2 began a war upon ISS for insults such as when D2 fleet movement was leaked by members of ISS, a 'neutral' 0.0 entity. Oh God, if I hear this weak moral justification of this war one more time I'm going to hurl on my monitor. If it makes you feel "like the good guys" or some injured party to tell yourselves this, then go ahead. Originally by: Cupdeez D2 took the ISS(North)station because they wanted so secure there boarders. The ISS station was an easy gateway into there home system. Now there we go. Any D2 pilot using THAT as their rationale for the war, and not the above drivel, gains my respect. Why, oh why, in both EVE and for nations in RL, do we insist on rationalizing militaristic aggression so often with complete bull. EC was an easy target, and makes D2 stronger in the short run. Justify it that way and leave it at that, please.
Chin LoPan The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:05:00 - [106] Originally by: Master Spoonman D2 began a war upon ISS for insults such as when D2 fleet movement was leaked by members of ISS, a 'neutral' 0.0 entity. Oh God, if I hear this weak moral justification of this war one more time I'm going to hurl on my monitor. If it makes you feel "like the good guys" or some injured party to tell yourselves this, then go ahead. Originally by: Cupdeez D2 took the ISS(North)station because they wanted so secure there boarders. The ISS station was an easy gateway into there home system. Now there we go. Any D2 pilot using THAT as their rationale for the war, and not the above drivel, gains my respect. Why, oh why, in both EVE and for nations in RL, do we insist on rationalizing militaristic aggression so often with complete bull. EC was an easy target, and makes D2 stronger in the short run. Justify it that way and leave it at that, please.
OozoO Caldari Decadence. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:08:00 - [107] Originally by: Ceratin This isnt a d2 thread so feel free to continue random tinfil hattery and pointless debating, we dont mind :P I do! get out of my thread folks!
OozoO Caldari Decadence. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:08:00 - [108] Originally by: Ceratin This isnt a d2 thread so feel free to continue random tinfil hattery and pointless debating, we dont mind :P I do! get out of my thread folks!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:35:00 - [109] Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Originally by: Belid Hagen why do people continue to list BoB as a friend and backer of ISS? they shoot us at every oppertunity, and we do the same (when we dont run :) ) It has been proven, weather it be by payment or NAP, that Bob will come in at the end of a time of war, generally after attrition has set in, to win the day. This happened the last time FIX was being mauled by the Coilition at the time. Though I assume if not for payment that it was because of the strategic imbalance close to their region. Hostiles to close basically if FIX fell or they were paid off. Nothing against them, smart even, but they have also been known to just takes poeples space as well, even if a war has not previously been set forward for ****s and giggles. It is just assumed by many that they will eventually try and grab the headlines with all the conflict stemming from Curse/Catch/Great Wildlands ect regions. Just a matter of when, and if not...it's a first. Noteing they kinda did when they hired MC to come to the area. People just basing opinions around the table. who really knows... Look, seriously, I've been in ISS since right from the start. This BoB thing is really getting old. BoB aren't interested in ISS, beyond the idle curiousity of anyone in EVE. We had a deal in the early days, that got ISS some access to Period Basis. That was all well and good, but it fell apart. A whole lot of reasons, but ... well, the only time I've ever been to 'BoB space' was during the evacuation. It's possible members of BoB like what we do, and what we've done. Personally, I'd like to think so. But that's not really related to 'BoB' or anything else.
zykerx Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:29:00 - [110] Edited by: zykerx on 11/01/2007 17:26:26 how many dreads did d2 use vs iss ? heard somethingh about 110 ? nice fleet is that the biggest cap fleet a alliance has ? dunno how much others have ? geus will see soon enough
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:48:00 - [111] Originally by: Belid Hagen why do people continue to list BoB as a friend and backer of ISS? Looking from outsider's perspective (which I'm not but I can act like one): 1) ASCN+AXE+BoB+whatever blob EC-P8R. 2) BoB leaves in haste, ASCN gets blown up a bit in the process. 3) TRUST is forced by the gun (of BoB) to sell the EC- outpost to ISS. 4) Later on ISS starts the now infamous Calico project with LV. 5) BoB buys NAP Launcher II from TRUST's webshop and uses it on LV (or that's what at least these forums are claiming). 6) Things start blowing up again; LV comes to help ISS. People see this as altastic aid from BoB (wtf but whatever...) It's not very solid proof of anything, I admit that. The thing is though that people nowadays wrap their entire ship to tinfoil meaning that if you're a friend of A who is friend of B who is friend of C then you must be a friend of C too. If you want any real reasoning, imagine ISS for a moment as a true ally to BoB and what we know from BoB's planned cynonet thanks to the Kugutsumen. If ISS would still hold both EC-P8R and P-2TTL in North, BoB could've just push its main fleet to ROIR-Y (which afaik was BoB's weak point in their last Northern shooting fest) and then blob EC-P8R again. After that just secure P-2TTL and they could've cynoed a lot of ships to just about anywhere in northwest. From that standpoint it's a small miracle that ISS was allowed to operate for as long as it did. I will miss shooting you though...
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:48:00 - [112] Originally by: Belid Hagen why do people continue to list BoB as a friend and backer of ISS? Looking from outsider's perspective (which I'm not but I can act like one): 1) ASCN+AXE+BoB+whatever blob EC-P8R. 2) BoB leaves in haste, ASCN gets blown up a bit in the process. 3) TRUST is forced by the gun (of BoB) to sell the EC- outpost to ISS. 4) Later on ISS starts the now infamous Calico project with LV. 5) BoB buys NAP Launcher II from TRUST's webshop and uses it on LV (or that's what at least these forums are claiming). 6) Things start blowing up again; LV comes to help ISS. People see this as altastic aid from BoB (wtf but whatever...) It's not very solid proof of anything, I admit that. The thing is though that people nowadays wrap their entire ship to tinfoil meaning that if you're a friend of A who is friend of B who is friend of C then you must be a friend of C too. If you want any real reasoning, imagine ISS for a moment as a true ally to BoB and what we know from BoB's planned cynonet thanks to the Kugutsumen. If ISS would still hold both EC-P8R and P-2TTL in North, BoB could've just push its main fleet to ROIR-Y (which afaik was BoB's weak point in their last Northern shooting fest) and then blob EC-P8R again. After that just secure P-2TTL and they could've cynoed a lot of ships to just about anywhere in northwest. From that standpoint it's a small miracle that ISS was allowed to operate for as long as it did. I will miss shooting you though...
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:09:00 - [113] Thing is, as a neutral trade base they were not a threat to you, Ather - and those stations would have required a siege by BoB to take, which you could of disrupted. Now, you've taken the stations (and Cassini was never ever defensible in the long term, it was stupid to put it there in the first place), and BoB will begin their suege, if any, with you. More likely, they'll bypass and set up their OWN bases a few jumps up the line were it's a true bottleneck, leaving you with nothing but an expensive albatross which your pilots get killed trying to defend. Meanwhile, the locals who would also have chipped in to defend the stations from BoB are now going to be leaving the area, since you've removed their trade base. Oh, and BoB can cyno ships in ANYWAY, since you can't stop determined cloaked scouts. Strategic sense \| you. //Maya
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:27:00 - [114] Originally by: Maya Rkell Thing is, as a neutral trade base they were not a threat to you, Ather Yep, I was a threat to them. Do note that it was D2 who took those stations, not IRON. We enjoy our corner in Deklein even though we're not always there.
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:32:00 - [115] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Maya Rkell Thing is, as a neutral trade base they were not a threat to you, Ather Yep, I was a threat to them. Do note that it was D2 who took those stations, not IRON. We enjoy our corner in Deklein even though we're not always there. Yeah... where have you guys been? you dont come out to play with us anymore sniff ------------ All hail! Leader of the pod brigade..*
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:42:00 - [116] Originally by: Ceratin Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Maya Rkell Thing is, as a neutral trade base they were not a threat to you, Ather Yep, I was a threat to them. Do note that it was D2 who took those stations, not IRON. We enjoy our corner in Deklein even though we're not always there. Yeah... where have you guys been? you dont come out to play with us anymore *sniff It's winter, North is cold so we're in South since it's really nice and warm in here. Don't worry though, I'll send you a nice postcard with a picture of exotic dancers and odd sea creatures and I may bring some presents for you when we come back. With much love and multiple <3 :s Ather
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.14 08:10:00 - [117] Edited by: Weirda on 14/01/2007 08:07:22 Originally by: James Lyrus Look, seriously, I've been in ISS since right from the start. This BoB thing is really getting old. BoB aren't interested in ISS, beyond the idle curiousity of anyone in EVE. We had a deal in the early days, that got ISS some access to Period Basis. That was all well and good, but it fell apart. A whole lot of reasons, but ... well, the only time I've ever been to 'BoB space' was during the evacuation. It's possible members of BoB like what we do, and what we've done. Personally, I'd like to think so. But that's not really related to 'BoB' or anything else. Originally by: Belid Hagen why do people continue to list BoB as a friend and backer of ISS? they shoot us at every oppertunity, and we do the same (when we dont run :) ) maybe because certain ISS are making attempt in thread to swing around someone else pendulum? Originally by: Nyphur ... We're currently discussing how to handle reimbursement to shareholders and if D2 had any honour they would recognise that they have just stolen shareholder property (of which BoB was a fairly big shareholder) and would contribute some isk toward reimbursing the shareholders. Regardless of whether or not D2 wants this to have been a clean cut "spoils of war" deal for them and a simple D2 vs ISS attack, it is not that simple. For example, with the share percentage ownership that BoB have in Cassini, D2 have just effectively nicked a few billion off them (unless they've sold the shares since then). I know that's a drop in the ocean for them but I wonder what they think of that. Another fact is that losing the outposts, while it may spook some member corps, will not ruin ISS as an organisation. Far from it, the ISSO IPO will not be harmed by it significantly as there are plenty of other places to trade to make the same level of profit. The ISS as an organisation is our asset and is what makes the ISS trade hub outposts worthwhile. Most of the outposts themselves are mediocre at best, placed in areas with little strategic benefit and poor natural resources. __ Weirda Join QotSA
Commander AllstarBu Badguys N Stuff	Posted - 2007.01.14 09:37:00 - [118] nice work d2! congrats
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.14 23:56:00 - [119] Originally by: Cardassius Originally by: FireFoxx80 Wow, things are moving fast. Easy when Dreads + Carriers are invincible in KALI. There is so much less risk deploying them now. No, they're only invincible in the hands of a capable alliance... just ask FIX.... loot from carrier: t1 armour hardeners, t2 mining drones... 6 battleships and 25 light support and boom no more thanatos.

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