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Ship bouncing with different masses

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Commander Riggs Geier GmbH The Craftsmen 0	Posted - 2015.11.18 07:20:45 - [1] - Quote One of the most strange this to me is, how is it possible that a small frigate with a mass of 1.500.000kg is able to bounce a capital ship with 960.000.000 over hundreds of kilometers? This makes no sense and is even not realistic. The frigate should crash or even get damaged. It is like flying a mosquito into an asteroid and bounce the asteriod. The developers should care a bit more for the physics Commander Riggs
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 157	Posted - 2015.11.18 07:27:39 - [2] - Quote Welcome to EVE physics. "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 DIDE- is open to new members
Lugh Crow-Slave 1311	Posted - 2015.11.18 07:32:05 - [3] - Quote If we want to deal with realism there are far better places to start but good news games aren't bound by the logic of the real world Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16974	Posted - 2015.11.18 07:35:48 - [4] - Quote A frigate can't bump a capital any meaningful distance. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 530	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:18:10 - [5] - Quote I don't see any ideas nor a feature... If you want it to change why don't you add more info on how it should work, cause what you wrote so far will not go far
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1034	Posted - 2015.11.18 09:19:12 - [6] - Quote It's not going anywhere anyway it's just a repeat thread.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 1844	Posted - 2015.11.18 09:31:34 - [7] - Quote Commander Riggs wrote: This makes no sense and is even not realistic. its just a game mate Recruiting V I R I I Small Gang Nullsec PVP Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic \| Angel Cartel \| Serpentis \|
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2015.11.18 09:59:54 - [8] - Quote OP if you're going to start worrying about eves physics you're going to be there a while. A case for more AoE in EvE
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2833	Posted - 2015.11.18 11:13:41 - [9] - Quote A mosquito flying into an asteroid in space DOES move the asteroid... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 642	Posted - 2015.11.18 14:41:10 - [10] - Quote Celthric Kanerian wrote: I don't see any ideas nor a feature... If you want it to change why don't you add more info on how it should work, cause what you wrote so far will not go far The baisc idea here is plain to see, make EvE physics more in line with physics in real life. You do not have to agree with idea but to say that there is no idea in the OP is simply being blind, or willfully ignoring what is there. You can decide for yourself which of these is true in your specific case. Daichi Yamato wrote: A mosquito flying into an asteroid in space DOES move the asteroid... Maybe, depending on relative sizes. But even if we accept that your assessment as correct the important question is is how far would that asteroid move and would you be able to measure it?
Tabyll Altol Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two 134	Posted - 2015.11.18 15:14:31 - [11] - Quote Commander Riggs wrote: One of the most strange this to me is, how is it possible that a small frigate with a mass of 1.500.000kg is able to bounce a capital ship with 960.000.000 over hundreds of kilometers? This makes no sense and is even not realistic. The frigate should crash or even get damaged. It is like flying a mosquito into an asteroid and bounce the asteriod. The developers should care a bit more for the physics Commander Riggs I never seen a frig bumping a capital this distance, do you have a video or something more than your statement?
Commander Riggs Geier GmbH The Craftsmen 0	Posted - 2015.11.18 15:32:29 - [12] - Quote Just come to Teonusude with an Orca. I will Show you how to easy it is to bounce you with a Tristan a few hundred Kilometers
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 652	Posted - 2015.11.18 18:51:20 - [13] - Quote Oh, boy. Maybe it's time for me to go on another break...and perhaps I'm not the only one at that. Now, if there was more ** to do in this town, that's be a lot easier. I think it would be better if we told him that Eve is closer to a submarine sim than a game with actual astrophysics. Ships shouldn't stop on a dime like they do just by turning off the engines either, pretty sure planetary bodies should have orbital behaviors, asteroids don't form in a 50km wide sideways "c", and at some point not seeing one binary star formation in over several thousand stars should spell "bull-**", so...yeah, you're just telling us what we already know. To be fair, Eve and CCP can only do so much before it just becomes easier to expect people to use their imagination if only a little bit. "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 353	Posted - 2015.11.18 18:52:34 - [14] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Celthric Kanerian wrote: I don't see any ideas nor a feature... If you want it to change why don't you add more info on how it should work, cause what you wrote so far will not go far The baisc idea here is plain to see, make EvE physics more in line with physics in real life. You do not have to agree with idea but to say that there is no idea in the OP is simply being blind, or willfully ignoring what is there. You can decide for yourself which of these is true in your specific case. Daichi Yamato wrote: A mosquito flying into an asteroid in space DOES move the asteroid... Maybe, depending on relative sizes. But even if we accept that your assessment as correct the important question is is how far would that asteroid move and would you be able to measure it? Everything is mesurable over time, and the mosquito doesn't even have to hit the asteroid to change its trajectory, it can orbit the asteroid in a proper position to be a "gravity tractor." Seems silly but it is has been a proposal on how to move near earth asteroids that may threaten the planet. ed* obviously not with mosquitos Being disturbing is better than being boring.
Xe'Cara'eos A Big Enough Lever 353	Posted - 2015.11.19 06:37:58 - [15] - Quote to be fair - if he's asking for collision mechanics to chance slightly, I could understand that, but I'm not entirely sure what the feature/idea is..... For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 336	Posted - 2015.11.19 06:49:05 - [16] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: The baisc idea here is plain to see, make EvE physics more in line with physics in real life. Hang on there bud. You want EVE physics to be more true to life. However, instead of addressing the glaringly obvious "submarines in space", you instead cite bumping as the target for change. I smell ulterior motive. <^.^> I'm a cat lol
Iain Cariaba 1980	Posted - 2015.11.19 08:03:23 - [17] - Quote Zimmer Jones wrote: ed* obviously not with mosquitos You obviously haven't seen the mosquitos where I live. They've been know to carry off small to medium sized dogs. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
admiral root Red Galaxy 3562	Posted - 2015.11.19 08:19:10 - [18] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: The baisc idea here is plain to see, make EvE physics more in line with physics in real life. You do not have to agree with idea but to say that there is no idea in the OP is simply being blind, or willfully ignoring what is there. You can decide for yourself which of these is true in your specific case. The purpose of the F&I sub-forum is that you're supposed to clearly state your idea or suggested feature, together with all the pros and cons in order to facilitate a meaningful discussion. OP smells more like today's nerf bumping thread. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1037	Posted - 2015.11.19 10:41:28 - [19] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Zimmer Jones wrote: ed* obviously not with mosquitos You obviously haven't seen the mosquitos where I live. They've been know to carry off small to medium sized dogs. Yeah, some of the neighbors installed anti-air batteries for pest control of the things around here. It's not working, but enough of us survive to repopulate each year.
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 334	Posted - 2015.11.20 01:00:20 - [20] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: A mosquito flying into an asteroid in space DOES move the asteroid... Maybe, depending on relative sizes. But even if we accept that your assessment as correct the important question is is how far would that asteroid move and would you be able to measure it? Not maybe. Definitely. It's called the Law of Conservation of Momentum. It describes how much that mosquito will move that asteroid. We're talking high-school level science here.
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 363	Posted - 2015.11.20 01:50:46 - [21] - Quote Just for fun I reinstalled an ancient os and the original homeworld + neutonian physics mod( yeah not the right type, but for eve sized local space battle it sufficed). The result, split seconds of engagement followed by very long turnaround times. Spacemarine physics ftw in comparison. I'll see if I can find a YouTube video. Being disturbing is better than being boring.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 1895	Posted - 2015.11.20 08:45:29 - [22] - Quote The physics of the bumps are implemented correctly, you just forgot that the AB and MWD increase the mass of a ship. Also why cry in a new thread when there is already another one about the same topic? the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2833	Posted - 2015.11.20 12:45:00 - [23] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: A mosquito flying into an asteroid in space DOES move the asteroid... Maybe, depending on relative sizes. But even if we accept that your assessment as correct the important question is is how far would that asteroid move and would you be able to measure it? About as far as a frig moves a capital. That is to say not very much at all. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 365	Posted - 2015.11.20 14:56:40 - [24] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: The physics of the bumps are implemented correctly, you just forgot that the AB and MWD increase the mass of a ship. Also why cry in a new thread when there is already another one about the same topic? Because one small bump to that threadnaght will be like that mosquito bumping a... Being disturbing is better than being boring.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1957	Posted - 2015.11.20 15:46:21 - [25] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Zimmer Jones wrote: ed* obviously not with mosquitos You obviously haven't seen the mosquitos where I live. They've been know to carry off small to medium sized dogs. Do you live in Maine? Minnesota? Or Louisiana? Too bad your proposal did not call for using mosquitoes in that way... would finally be a good use for them besides yellow fever, malaria, and other lovely tropical diseases. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Iain Cariaba 1991	Posted - 2015.11.20 17:14:50 - [26] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Zimmer Jones wrote: ed* obviously not with mosquitos You obviously haven't seen the mosquitos where I live. They've been know to carry off small to medium sized dogs. Do you live in Maine? Minnesota? Or Louisiana? Too bad your proposal did not call for using mosquitoes in that way... would finally be a good use for them besides yellow fever, malaria, and other lovely tropical diseases. Alaska, where we have signs like this. Another relevant pic. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 646	Posted - 2015.11.21 08:02:20 - [27] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Donnachadh wrote: The baisc idea here is plain to see, make EvE physics more in line with physics in real life. Hang on there bud. You want EVE physics to be more true to life. However, instead of addressing the glaringly obvious "submarines in space", you instead cite bumping as the target for change. I smell ulterior motive. Hold on there cowboy. I said I would like to see some things in EvE be more accurate to real life. Yes bumps is one of them because when you run a simulation on these using the speed and mass as listed in game you find significantly less movement in your targets than we get in game. And yes I do know about how MWD etc can influence these things. I would like to see some equal and opposite reactions on ships that use guns. I would like to see missiles behave in a slightly more realistic manor. I would like to see instant hits taken away from all non-laser turret weapons and go to a velocity of shot versus distance calculation which would enable them to calculate the equal and opposite reaction thing. No I do not want EvE to be 100% true to real life space physics that would not be good. Rawketsled wrote: We're talking high-school level science here. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. And anyone that had that high school level of science knowledge would also understand that an insect hitting an asteroid larger than an average house is not likely to move it very far, in fact it may not even move it enough for it to be measured by any currently available means.
oohthey ioh Republic University Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2015.11.21 17:15:00 - [28] - Quote Donnachad wrote: Rawketsled wrote: We're talking high-school level science here. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. And anyone that had that high school level of science knowledge would also understand that an insect hitting an asteroid larger than an average house is not likely to move it very far, in fact it may not even move it enough for it to be measured by any currently available means. Is space there is no fiction for air, there if the mosquito is mov8ng fast enough relative to the asteroid the asterrod with move at high speed, till it hit an another object. The fact the frig have to be moving at high speed for the bumb to be notices, it show they bounce system is fairly realistic. Other then they bounce not collide at high speeds.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2836	Posted - 2015.11.21 17:45:43 - [29] - Quote @Donna Load up SiSi and bump an orca with a frig. The op is grossly exaggerating. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 3745	Posted - 2015.11.21 19:04:39 - [30] - Quote Commander Riggs wrote: One of the most strange this to me is, how is it possible that a small frigate with a mass of 1.500.000kg is able to bounce a capital ship with 960.000.000 over hundreds of kilometers? This makes no sense and is even not realistic. The frigate should crash or even get damaged. It is like flying a mosquito into an asteroid and bounce the asteriod. The developers should care a bit more for the physics Commander Riggs You do realize you are playing a game, right? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 3745	Posted - 2015.11.21 19:11:07 - [31] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Zimmer Jones wrote: ed* obviously not with mosquitos You obviously haven't seen the mosquitos where I live. They've been know to carry off small to medium sized dogs. Do you live in Maine? Minnesota? Or Louisiana? Too bad your proposal did not call for using mosquitoes in that way... would finally be a good use for them besides yellow fever, malaria, and other lovely tropical diseases. Aww man, what do you have against dogs? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 1903	Posted - 2015.11.22 03:41:01 - [32] - Quote I met the OP and his corp friends recently in game and they assured my that bumps are not bothering them at all or have any impact on their mining business. They had however some trouble with fitting ships in general. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Commander Riggs Geier GmbH The Craftsmen 3	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:12:43 - [33] - Quote Ima... go back to School. Quote "The physics of the bumps are implemented correctly" .... get your Toyota and kick a 40 tons Truck of the road ... and tell me again
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 337	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:35:46 - [34] - Quote Commander Riggs wrote: Ima... go back to School. Quote "The physics of the bumps are implemented correctly" .... get your Toyota and kick a 40 tons Truck of the road ... and tell me again Elastic Collisions are a thing.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 1913	Posted - 2015.11.27 06:40:33 - [35] - Quote Commander Riggs wrote: Ima... go back to School. Quote "The physics of the bumps are implemented correctly" .... get your Toyota and kick a 40 tons Truck of the road ... and tell me again Physics is done with math and not with gut feelings. Feel free to calculate it by yourself how much a Machariel + MWD (mass increase) at 2000 m/s would move a Freighter. You can also do the math for a Stabber + MWD at 3000 m/s against your Orca and show us how wrong EVE is. And now tell us how you tried to bump my stabber with your frigate and how it did not work. Also tell us how it did not work for your friend as well. The fittings for the frigs are on my killboard for reference. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Ageanal Olerie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.11.29 17:49:20 - [36] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: The physics of the bumps are implemented correctly, you just forgot that the AB and MWD increase the mass of a ship. Also why cry in a new thread when there is already another one about the same topic? Big surprise. High-sec mining, hauling, and industrial ganking filth don't want the bumping mechanics to be changed.
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 415	Posted - 2015.11.29 17:57:37 - [37] - Quote Oh yeah, don't forget us hauler and mining filth that don't want it change either. You speak for yourself, not for all of us. The cake is not a lie. Unfortunately, the fork is a parallel construction.
Ageanal Olerie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.11.29 18:35:07 - [38] - Quote Zimmer Jones wrote: Oh yeah, don't forget us hauler and mining filth that don't want it change either. You speak for yourself, not for all of us. LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Sure Zimmer Jones. Says the guy who's been defending gankers for years.
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 418	Posted - 2015.11.29 19:20:40 - [39] - Quote Yep, I champion their gameplay because their failure( the gankers and gankees) makes me feel better about my success. What have you lost that makes you so bitter? How did you lose it? Why shouldn't I support their efforts to part a fool from his/her isk? I adapt, avoid and prosper. I use the risk to increase my enjoyment, and i fully believe that candy taken from diaper wearing adults is fair game. Passive schadenfreude best schadenfreude. The cake is not a lie. Unfortunately, the fork is a parallel construction.
Ageanal Olerie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.11.29 20:02:11 - [40] - Quote Zimmer Jones wrote: Yep, I champion their gameplay because their failure( the gankers and gankees) makes me feel better about my success. What have you lost that makes you so bitter? How did you lose it? Why shouldn't I support their efforts to part a fool from his/her isk? I adapt, avoid and prosper. I use the risk to increase my enjoyment, and i fully believe that candy taken from diaper wearing adults is fair game. Passive schadenfreude best schadenfreude. I've never actually been ganked. Though I don't think much of the people who do it, particularly as a career. In any event, I for one have also long found the bumping mechanic to be one of the most stupid things about EVE. Particularly when a small ship can bump a much larger one. Still you'd think an advanced space ship would be able to counterbalance any forces being applied to it against its desired heading, orientation, or direction of travel.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 44	Posted - 2015.11.30 03:42:05 - [41] - Quote If both ships in a bump have shields at zero, it should be crunch time, because that would be consistent with lore about how shields work (and how they wouldn't when they've failed). Outside of that, the mechanic is just fine. A signature :o
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 3842	Posted - 2015.11.30 04:41:03 - [42] - Quote Ageanal Olerie wrote: Zimmer Jones wrote: Yep, I champion their gameplay because their failure( the gankers and gankees) makes me feel better about my success. What have you lost that makes you so bitter? How did you lose it? Why shouldn't I support their efforts to part a fool from his/her isk? I adapt, avoid and prosper. I use the risk to increase my enjoyment, and i fully believe that candy taken from diaper wearing adults is fair game. Passive schadenfreude best schadenfreude. I've never actually been ganked. Though I don't think much of the people who do it, particularly as a career. In any event, I for one have also long found the bumping mechanic to be one of the most stupid things about EVE. Particularly when a small ship can bump a much larger one. Still you'd think an advanced space ship would be able to counterbalance any forces being applied to it against its desired heading, orientation, or direction of travel. Well, what is stupid is that you don't understand bumping. A small ship will have a hard time bumping a much larger ship without at least a MWD....which also increases the mass of the ship doing the bumping (scroll down to the part that says mass addition; so for something like a taranis an increase of 500,000 kg would be a one third increase in ship mass) and even then it wont be terribly effective against a ship like a freighter. Maybe you should read a bit more on how the game mechanics work. As for bumping, it is totally fine, IMO. You don't take damage when you slam into other objects in game. And if you find yourself getting bumped in preparation of a gank, you screwed up several times over....you deserve what is coming, IMO. HTFU and fly smarter. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?

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