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CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13496	Posted - 2015.11.26 22:47:56 - [1] - Quote Hey folks. We're ready to gather feedback on our plan for a new set of Tech Two Logistics Frigates scheduled for release in Operation Frostline on December 8th. These ships are designed to release alongside the big set of remote rep changes in the same release. These ships use a new skill: Logistics Frigates 4x Multiplier, Will/Per Requires Spaceship Command 3, Signature Analysis V, Long Range Targeting 4 The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers" Deacon Amarr Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer duration and activation cost 5% bonus to all armor hitpoints Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer optimal range 600% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer falloff Slot layout: 3H, 2M, 5L; 2 turrets Fittings: 57 PWG, 145 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300 / 550 / 400 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 55 / 75 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 43.5 / 60 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 675 / 337.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 405 / 3.5 / 1,630,000 / 7.91s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 920 / 8 Sensor strength: 15 Signature radius: 32 Cargo Hold: 250m3 Kirin Caldari Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster amount 10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Shield Booster duration and activation cost 5% bonus to all shield hitpoints Role Bonus: 300% bonus to Remote Shield Booster falloff Slot layout: 3H, 5M, 2L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers Fittings: 42 PWG, 215 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 550 / 300 / 375 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 55 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 72.5 / 43.5 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 615 / 307.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 370 / 3.95 / 1,480,000 / 8.1s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 870 / 8 Sensor strength: 16 Signature radius: 33 Cargo Hold: 270m3 Thalia Gallente Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer duration and activation cost 5% reduction in signature radius Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer optimal range 600% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer falloff Slot layout: 3H, 3M, 4L; 2 turrets Fittings: 60 PWG, 155 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300 / 450 / 425 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 40 / 70 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 51.25 / 67.5 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 595 / 297.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 410 / 3.7 / 1,450,000 / 7.44s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 43km / 890 / 8 Sensor strength: 14 Signature radius: 34 Cargo Hold: 280m3 Scalpel Minmatar Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster amount 10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Shield Booster duration and activation cost 5% reduction in signature radius Role Bonus: 300% bonus to Remote Shield Booster falloff Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers Fittings: 42 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 450 / 300 / 350 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 40 / 40 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 80 / 51.25 / 25 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 560 / 280s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.85 / 1,420,000 / 7.58s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km / 940 / 8 Sensor strength: 13 Signature radius: 31 Cargo Hold: 260m3 Let us know what you think! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13496	Posted - 2015.11.26 22:48:08 - [2] - Quote Reserved Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1179	Posted - 2015.11.26 22:50:59 - [3] - Quote redesign bantam navitas and burst models pls
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2831	Posted - 2015.11.26 22:53:01 - [4] - Quote Those speeds seem really weird. 415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari?
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1247	Posted - 2015.11.26 23:12:50 - [5] - Quote Rowells wrote: Those speeds seem really weird. 415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari? yes that is a big disparity especially when you add the sig bloom from extenders, i would suggest bring the other 3 down under 400 T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Liam Inkuras AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 1623	Posted - 2015.11.26 23:28:34 - [6] - Quote Nice I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Dunk Dinkle Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids 114	Posted - 2015.11.26 23:33:47 - [7] - Quote Do pilots with Logistics skill already trained get grandfathered into the Logistics Frigate skill or will they train it up from zero?
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 531	Posted - 2015.11.26 23:57:22 - [8] - Quote so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor no inquisitor pilots asked for a 5th low. they wanted a mid. the amarr navy designed a 3rd mid. not a 5th low. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Anthar Thebess 1378	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:02:46 - [9] - Quote Why this are not pirate faction frigates that come from pirate LP store. More isk sinks are good. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1247	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:08:19 - [10] - Quote also not a fan of having sig analysis lv5 as a pre req, training skills too lv5 should be optional as much as possible T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Count Szadek Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids 12	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:18:15 - [11] - Quote im honestly a little curious about the amarr and caldari with a tank bonus. as they both have 5 slots in their respective tank oriented areas. I would like to actually see a mwd cap penalty reduction there instead. i feel that will give them a better bonus to their layouts. i like the sig radius as that will really help be more close range for brawler fleets, while a mwd cap penalty reduction would help kiting / fast moving fleets more.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1964	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:23:06 - [12] - Quote These look very nice. Still amazed at people complaining about training useful prerequisites... CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Dantelion Shinoni SQUIDS. 20	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:28:50 - [13] - Quote Flyinghotpocket wrote: so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor no inquisitor pilots asked for a 5th low. they wanted a mid. the amarr navy designed a 3rd mid. not a 5th low. Amarr is forever cursed with extra Lows, so that was expected, I'd have hoped we'd get something to compensate, but of course the Gallente one is the one getting the superior sig bonus :^) Being Amarr or Caldari is suffering, no mids or no speed.
Vic Jefferson Stimulus Rote Kapelle 711	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:29:17 - [14] - Quote Not a fan of the skill multiplier. Proper fitting and piloting of logistics already takes a very hefty SP investment, these should be easier and more forgiving as far as the SP barrier goes. It should be the small bump to make people want to train Logistics Cruisers to V. While these definitely look very cool and either augment present fleet compositions or enable others, there is still the overarching issue of small things being king and big things being comparatively worthless these days. Why would anyone undock in a T1 cruiser fleet with T1 cruiser logi when they could undock in t3ds with T2 logi frigates? This has potential to be good, but it also has the obvious potential to further exacerbate the 't3ds online' syndrome. It's very neat to have new toys, and while the BC changes overall have really helped, big things still need help. They are cumbersome dinosaurs living in a fast and competitive world, and it seems most game mechanics are against them these days. I thoroughly enjoy frigate PvP, but EvE as a whole becomes a little less epic when that's all you can find. We are shown epic battles with huge starships, and all that's really viable to play with are space bumper cars. This just enables further going down this road, and I don't think it's a good thing unless there are more changes for big things in the works. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
big miker Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 384	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:46:08 - [15] - Quote Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius. Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png Not to mention being able to easily fit a 10mn afterburner in combination with a respectable tank. Edit. I still find it stupid how these things and t3d's get such a ridiculously large cargohold. Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / marauders
Circumstantial Evidence 239	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:54:47 - [16] - Quote While you are renaming skills, is "Logistics" the best name for this function? The ships provide remote shield or armor... boost/repair/help/support... what about "Remote Support," or words of this nature. Force Auxiliary is the new name for the Capital ship class providing these functions, perhaps this could be borrowed to better describe the function. Querns wrote: "Auxiliary" is, really, the perfect word for this sort of ship line. Auxiliaries, in war-time, refer to noncombatants whose primary role is to tend to wounded and dead soldiers. In naval parlance, it refers to a vessel with a supporting role, which is not armed for combat. It makes a lot more sense than "logistics," which typically refers to moving goods, troops, or equipment, not healing. "Logistics" is what Jump Freighters do.
Valkin Mordirc 1688	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:57:34 - [17] - Quote The Sig bonus is what scares me the most with this ships, I've always thought that T2 Logi Frig's would become a little OP due to the small sig bonus, specially with implants + Links. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 2931	Posted - 2015.11.27 01:06:32 - [18] - Quote I don't grok the design philosophy of no optimal, huge falloff bonuses. The remote shield booster II is going to be 4.8 + 23.2km for the Kirin and Scalpel. The remote armour repper II is going to be 8.4 + 18km for the Deacon and Thalia. With the upcoming tiercide shunt towards slower cycle times, these bonuses to rep rate and capacitor use are obviously different from the previous T1 logi frigs. This is interesting, because consider the Burst with it's 500% range bonus; that's going to now get 20 + 40km range. You might want to go back and tiercide the T1 logi frigates again, Fozzie, because they are going to be repping more or less as well as the T2's at well outside T2 range. The sig radius is also a little on the ridiculous side. As Big Miker says, 12m sig rad for the armour, 14 for the shield (with links, no pills or plants). With 10MN fits quite doable (especially for the Deacon; what else do you do with 5 lows?) these are going to be utter cancer. Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads. Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot. i suppose i'm overall happy; I just think you need to go and have a re-look at the T1 frigates now you've changed the RR's. They vastly outrange the T2 frigates. ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1332	Posted - 2015.11.27 01:38:51 - [19] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: I don't grok the design philosophy of no optimal, huge falloff bonuses. The remote shield booster II is going to be 4.8 + 23.2km for the Kirin and Scalpel. The remote armour repper II is going to be 8.4 + 18km for the Deacon and Thalia. For comparison, investing in a little pimp for your Scalpel and going with pithi A-type RR, it should end up being 5.8km+37km, 195hp/cycle every 3secs, or 200hp/s roughly at 6km and 100hp/s at ~42km. In melee range, that would rep as hard as a 3 meta large scimi right now and half that much at 42km. The RR-mods were like 6mil recently.
Silverbackyererse The Church of Awesome 173	Posted - 2015.11.27 01:45:59 - [20] - Quote Holy align times Batman.

Mad Abbat Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET 10	Posted - 2015.11.27 01:48:04 - [21] - Quote Sig tank is better than buffer face tank in fleets, as fellow logi pilots just have much less raw armor/shield damage to rep, wich magnify tanking power of signature bonussed logi wing vs facetanking logi wing. (same rep power to rep less raw damage -> better general tank) Amarr and caldari ships it seems designed to be more durable but suffer form EWAR Matar and Gal ships designed to have better utility but be less durable. With current desigh sigtanking ships have better actual tanks than facetanking buffer-bonussed ships and have better utility by initial design, wich means that Amarr and Cal ships are inferior. Suggestion: Change buffer bonus for appropriate resists bonus to make design tanking bonuses equal between races. OR change signature bonus for scan res bonus high scan res allows logi to apply reps faster, that is crutial aspect that current t1 ships lack. Curent t1 line ships melt in few seconds under foccused fire, often unable to catch reps from t1 logi (especially armor, due to combination of low scan res+application of HP at the end of the long cycle). That change will make Gal/Min logi more desirable for fast t1 FW frigate-dessie fights where reaction time is valued more than raw tanking power, and make Amarr/Cald ships more desirable in small T2 / T3D / T1 cruiser gangs where reaction time valued less than raw tanking power of individial logi ship.
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 320	Posted - 2015.11.27 01:53:38 - [22] - Quote big miker wrote: Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius.... I have to agree with this... It's ridiculusly small. Imagine those things in a C6 wolf rayet. 6m sig radius with an oversized prop mod... they would be practically invincible. Give them more EHP/resists instead of the tiny sig radius.
aria Yatolila SnaiLs aNd FroGs 46	Posted - 2015.11.27 02:02:21 - [23] - Quote The sig radius bonus seems pretty strong as pointed by Big Miker, even if i like the idea of this kind of bonus, maybe move it as a role bonus or a fix number (like -1 sig per level of logi freg), to avoid ridiculous number. I think the red line about sig radius is around 20 (as a linked claw can go to 19~) and any ship shouldn't go under 20. Lady Yatolila, retainer of her Lady Kadesh and Khanid Royal House
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 2932	Posted - 2015.11.27 02:06:55 - [24] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: big miker wrote: Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius.... I have to agree with this... It's ridiculusly small. Imagine those things in a C6 wolf rayet. 6m sig radius with an oversized prop mod... they would be practically invincible. Give them more EHP/resists instead of the tiny sig radius. More like a C13....but, then again, 1500 DPS hecates are a thing, so...good with the bad. ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Penance Toralen School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.11.27 02:10:07 - [25] - Quote Gallente Navy Navitas with RR hull "coming soon"? For Real Men.
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 349	Posted - 2015.11.27 02:46:18 - [26] - Quote Why the grid disparity between the deacon/thalia?
Jaro Essa Dahkur Forge 29	Posted - 2015.11.27 04:00:16 - [27] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads. So shoot them with lights? Trinkets friend wrote: Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot. The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them.
Scheulagh Santorine The Math Department 26	Posted - 2015.11.27 04:05:28 - [28] - Quote I'm seeing a lot of comments about the sig radius, which I agree will be quite small with the bonus. I wonder though, is the extremely poor agility and mass intended to make it difficult to make these ships kitey? With ABs and MWDs you wont get much speed and your transverse velocity on orbits is going to be quite poor compared to most ships, T1 or T2. S. Santorine ============================== I used to shoot things. Now I do math. S. Santorine Writings on some formal methods in EvE-Online: Ship Motion in EVE Online
Bob Niac Joint Espionage and Defence Industries Preatoriani 54	Posted - 2015.11.27 04:18:50 - [29] - Quote Please add utility hull! Remote cap for Amarr Remote sensor booster for Gallente Remote tracking links for Minmatar Remote ECCM for Caldari. Edi: Again SECOND SHIP, separate from OP. [u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all -áT2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
Blackfeathers Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 32	Posted - 2015.11.27 05:08:22 - [30] - Quote To be honest, I was really hoping for bonuses towards remote assistance modules like tracking links, remote sebos, and remote eccm to bring some more utility to the field in small gangs. The few times I e flown a tracking link oneiros have been really fun- not so much the scimi due to mid slot tank and all. There are already a bunch of rep focused ships. A repair drone bonus to go along with the remote assist stuff coulda been really fun- cap boosting, a sebo/eccm on the logi gang, and some hull drones to help out - target range and tracking links (optimal scripts) on a corm gang? I think it could have been wicked.

Eodp Ellecon Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team 25	Posted - 2015.11.27 05:14:03 - [31] - Quote Regarding INVENTION of these - the Amarr Inquisitor BPO is dedicated to the bomber Purifier. So this will be properly addressed by release date? The other three should work readily towards T2 invention by simply adding the invention path as their BPO's are clear.
Maxxor Brutor Unsettled Unsettled. 90	Posted - 2015.11.27 06:07:56 - [32] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: redesign bantam navitas and burst models pls Yeah, Bantam being a vacuum cleaner kind of made sense when it was a mining ship but not now...
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 1974	Posted - 2015.11.27 06:46:47 - [33] - Quote I hope there is an excellent reason as to why the kirin is a good 40m/s below the other three... Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Scheulagh Santorine The Math Department 26	Posted - 2015.11.27 07:59:32 - [34] - Quote Altrue wrote: I hope there is an excellent reason as to why the kirin is a good 40m/s below the other three... This is not uncommon. As you can see, the racial trend is that Caldari tend to be about 10% slower. On the other hand, they usually have a bit of an advantage over the armor races when it comes to time-constant. For these frigates though, it seems that CCP made the Caldari agility also the worst of the group! S. Santorine ============================== I used to shoot things. Now I do math. S. Santorine Writings on some formal methods in EvE-Online: EVE Math & Physics Blog
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2099	Posted - 2015.11.27 08:25:18 - [35] - Quote So I asked about cap transfers in the twitch chat, the main reason for that was for small ship content where neuts are an issue. I don't have a super compelling reason for it, but overall think it would be nice. it is also possible someone else can point out that it is a terrible idea. if it just means bringing cap boosters than so be it. although with that I have to wonder if it is worth it to bring a t1 logi cruiser cap chain? can't wait to look at these in more detail. @ChainsawPlankto
Xavier Azabu Tarantism 28	Posted - 2015.11.27 09:08:33 - [36] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Kirin! Please continue to throw in names from Japanese mythology when you make new Caldari ships! Great name. Otherwise, still waiting for the "Penguin". Looking forward to "Oni", "Kappa", and "Namazu" as well. The amount of new stuff in this expansion is overwhelming. Lots of fun to come.
Lia' Vael Trillionaire.pro 4	Posted - 2015.11.27 09:37:36 - [37] - Quote Will the current Logistics skill get splitted into Logistics cruisers and Logistics frigates (like when the scout drones were splitted into light and medium drones) or will it be an entirely new train?
Luscius Uta 187	Posted - 2015.11.27 10:24:00 - [38] - Quote If these ships are going to be called "Logistics Frigates", does that mean that the existing Logistics will be renamed into "Logistics Cruisers" (because consistency)? Even though I would prefer renaming into Auxiliary Frigates/Cruisers since Logistics has nothing to do with their purpose. Drifters have arrived - The End is nigh!
Abbot Jackson Puppies and Christmas 7	Posted - 2015.11.27 10:43:59 - [39] - Quote Xavier Azabu wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Kirin! Please continue to throw in names from Japanese mythology when you make new Caldari ships! Great name. Otherwise, still waiting for the "Penguin". Looking forward to "Oni", "Kappa", and "Namazu" as well. When T3 battlships come around, I demand that the Caldari one be the "Senpai". SULKY CAREBEAR RAGE PRONS4LIFE HTP REPRESENT
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 332	Posted - 2015.11.27 12:35:36 - [40] - Quote I think if you are going to give them a signature as low as is being predicted then you need to remove all offensive capabilities as I can imagine these being used as annoying PvP ships. 12m sig is virtually immune to damage from a lot of ships. If their role is just to provide reps though then I am fine with them having the low sig, it might make them a viable replacement in fleets too. CCP Fozzie wrote: The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers" So I take it from this that the former logistic skill is no longer going to be a requirement for using force auxiliaries then? If so then that is a good change. Lia' Vael wrote: Will the current Logistics skill get splitted into Logistics cruisers and Logistics frigates (like when the scout drones were splitted into light and medium drones) or will it be an entirely new train? It will be a new train as it doesn't break the rule of "if you could fly it before you can fly it after" as T2 logi frigates are new ships so no one could fly them before. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading

Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2848	Posted - 2015.11.27 12:42:33 - [41] - Quote Im glad they dont have full on T2 resists and the combined duration and cap use bonus for the t2 skill thankfully means you dont need these to level 4/5 before they become usable. But im also concerned about the Sig bonuses. Perhaps tone it down or swap it for an e-war resist bonus or remote utility bonuses. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Funz Orlenard Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.11.27 12:50:18 - [42] - Quote Minmatar Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster amount 10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Shield Booster duration and activation cost 5% reduction in signature radius Why is the minmatar frigate skill giving way more boost to reps as logistics is doing? I think you should replace bonuses of the skills with one another, makes more sense.
Luscius Uta 187	Posted - 2015.11.27 12:55:03 - [43] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Kirin! Why not Kuririn? You are making DragonBall fans unhappy Drifters have arrived - The End is nigh!
Ovv Topik Hoplite Brigade 760	Posted - 2015.11.27 12:55:29 - [44] - Quote Flyinghotpocket wrote: so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor Amarr armor resist 60% Galente armor resist 10% Reading is hard. "Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7
Elyia Suze Nagala Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2015.11.27 12:57:14 - [45] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: redesign bantam navitas and burst models pls The Bantam needs a face lift, but the the Navitas needs to be totally redesigned. It looks more like the old Jove frigates than anything and is quite honestly, in my opinion, one of the ugliest ships in the game. The Bursters is fine I think! I also have concerns over the speed of the Caldari ship. It needs a little more. The other stats for these look pretty decent.
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 533	Posted - 2015.11.27 14:33:26 - [46] - Quote Ovv Topik wrote: Flyinghotpocket wrote: so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor Amarr armor resist 60% Galente armor resist 10% Reading is hard. what are you pole smoking? racial t2 resistances have nothing to do with this. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2468	Posted - 2015.11.27 16:47:32 - [47] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers" Is this going to be tied to the frigate skill for people who don't have it trained yet; like happened with the mining frigate introduction?
Bateau Erinys Nuwa Foundation 15	Posted - 2015.11.27 17:38:25 - [48] - Quote big miker wrote: Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius. Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png Not to mention being able to easily fit a 10mn afterburner in combination with a respectable tank. Edit. I still find it stupid how these things and t3d's get such a ridiculously large cargohold. OGB confirmed remove
Samaz Ralan Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2015.11.27 18:38:01 - [49] - Quote so we can get rid of ceptor bubble immunity, right?
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 2936	Posted - 2015.11.28 00:50:43 - [50] - Quote Jaro Essa wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads. So shoot them with lights? Trinkets friend wrote: Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot. The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them. golf clap Truly, I have had something I already know extremely well explained to me. However, lucky shots are just that - luck. Keeping transversal up with a low-sig ship still sees you liable to taking a range of damage on any individual shot. Tell me, O Explainer of Everything Obvious, what's the sig resolution on a Warrior II? Is it 25m? If your flight of Warriors does 80DPS on paper, how much is it really going to do against, say, a Deacon with a base 75% Explosive resist and 12m sig radius? Hmm? 10? I would have thought Fozzie's figured out already how OP low-sig ships really are. For instance, at 12m sig radius a BC will take about 20s to lock these ships. Without even a res damp on it. Battleships, probably 35-45s. If you cover your bases with res damps, you will be able to avoid all damage entirely for the duration of a fight against the now-useless range of ships bigger than a T3D. GJ Fozzie. ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~

Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2840	Posted - 2015.11.28 04:27:11 - [51] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Jaro Essa wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads. So shoot them with lights? Trinkets friend wrote: Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot. The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them. golf clap Truly, I have had something I already know extremely well explained to me. However, lucky shots are just that - luck. Keeping transversal up with a low-sig ship still sees you liable to taking a range of damage on any individual shot. Tell me, O Explainer of Everything Obvious, what's the sig resolution on a Warrior II? Is it 25m? If your flight of Warriors does 80DPS on paper, how much is it really going to do against, say, a Deacon with a base 75% Explosive resist and 12m sig radius? Hmm? 10? I would have thought Fozzie's figured out already how OP low-sig ships really are. For instance, at 12m sig radius a BC will take about 20s to lock these ships. Without even a res damp on it. Battleships, probably 35-45s. If you cover your bases with res damps, you will be able to avoid all damage entirely for the duration of a fight against the now-useless range of ships bigger than a T3D. GJ Fozzie. thoe battlecruisers and battleships could always shoot the link ship and then work on not being caught without some kind of anti tackle support. I think the bellicose just found its niche. In fact, any of the minmatar painters could perform well here. All the way from the other side of the fight too. If a rapier of huggin were to apply a web and a paint, it really may be in trouble. Which brings up another way-op sig tanking ship: hyena.
Joelleaveek Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 267	Posted - 2015.11.28 08:09:28 - [52] - Quote "scalpel" is win
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 918	Posted - 2015.11.28 08:39:59 - [53] - Quote Rowells wrote: ...I think the bellicose just found its niche. In fact, any of the minmatar painters could perform well here. All the way from the other side of the fight too. If a rapier of huggin were to apply a web and a paint, it really may be in trouble. Which brings up another way-op sig tanking ship: hyena. Shhh baltec1 already told me to not give out free tactical advice. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Ovv Topik Hoplite Brigade 760	Posted - 2015.11.28 12:38:08 - [54] - Quote Flyinghotpocket wrote: racial t2 resistances have nothing to do with this. If you think the 'Armor' Resists of your 'Armour' Logi has nothing to do with it's performance versus it's Gallente equivalent, good luck defending your home in Sahtogas when we come to take it from you. Oh. Wait. We already took it. KK I see now. "Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7
Morrigan LeSante Senex Legio The OSS 690	Posted - 2015.11.28 13:01:40 - [55] - Quote Rowells wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: Jaro Essa wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads. So shoot them with lights? Trinkets friend wrote: Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot. The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them. golf clap Truly, I have had something I already know extremely well explained to me. However, lucky shots are just that - luck. Keeping transversal up with a low-sig ship still sees you liable to taking a range of damage on any individual shot. Tell me, O Explainer of Everything Obvious, what's the sig resolution on a Warrior II? Is it 25m? If your flight of Warriors does 80DPS on paper, how much is it really going to do against, say, a Deacon with a base 75% Explosive resist and 12m sig radius? Hmm? 10? I would have thought Fozzie's figured out already how OP low-sig ships really are. For instance, at 12m sig radius a BC will take about 20s to lock these ships. Without even a res damp on it. Battleships, probably 35-45s. If you cover your bases with res damps, you will be able to avoid all damage entirely for the duration of a fight against the now-useless range of ships bigger than a T3D. GJ Fozzie. thoe battlecruisers and battleships could always shoot the link ship and then work on not being caught without some kind of anti tackle support. I think the bellicose just found its niche. In fact, any of the minmatar painters could perform well here. All the way from the other side of the fight too. If a rapier of huggin were to apply a web and a paint, it really may be in trouble. Which brings up another way-op sig tanking ship: hyena. Painters don't work so well on already small sigs. x% of buggerall is buggerall. What you'll need, are caracals with RLML and MGCs AND triple rigors AND precision light missiles. And probably a web from someone else Because, you know, they'll last a long time on field fit like that
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 535	Posted - 2015.11.28 14:31:11 - [56] - Quote Ovv Topik wrote: Flyinghotpocket wrote: racial t2 resistances have nothing to do with this. If you think the 'Armor' Resists of your 'Armour' Logi has nothing to do with it's performance versus it's Gallente equivalent, good luck defending your home in Sahtogas when we come to take it from you. Oh. Wait. We already took it. KK I see now. it has nothing to do with its performance because all these t2 logis have t2 racial res, and OBVIOUSLY panders to there own style of fighting. what im talking about is the clear discrepancys between the 2 ships. BOTH have t2 racial res, you got that? but the cpu? the grid? the faster align time the less mass, the better recharge rate, everything that matters in a fight the gallente have a superiority with. amarr one? tank. wow.................. thats not a role. tanking is not a role. keep thinking you took sahtogas through combat because you didnt. you took it by out plexing us in our off timezone. you lost every single fight in sahtogas over the last week with the exception of maybe 2. 2 out of 50. go back to being bad. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Richard TheLordOfDance New Eden Special Operations Force 15	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:21:24 - [57] - Quote big miker wrote: Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius. Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png Not to mention being able to easily fit a 10mn afterburner in combination with a respectable tank. Edit. I still find it stupid how these things and t3d's get such a ridiculously large cargohold. Haven't they said they'll nuke of grid boosting? Yes 12m is still a bit silly but at least we will be able to bump it up by killing the boosts that are sitting right next to it!
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2842	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:08:20 - [58] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Painters don't work so well on already small sigs. x% of buggerall is buggerall. What you'll need, are caracals with RLML and MGCs AND triple rigors AND precision light missiles. And probably a web from someone else Because, you know, they'll last a long time on field fit like that Properly bonused, a hyena can brin the scalpel close enough to its original stats to make the skin-tank an issue again. A set of lights or lights/rockets would put it in a really bad spot. The only real issue to killing the scalpel, is if you're ship cannot catch it. With most frigates, that shouldn't be too hard, and possibly an interceptor could work on it (it'll take some time though). The gutted agility also becomes an issue since you need to be pretty set on a flight path to stay alive, and that path may put you way into shield rep falloff, which means logi survives, but dos doesn't. If pyfa is correct, scalpel also has very small capacitor strength. 10mn fit means running reps conservatively or using prop only when in danger. There may be situations where pilots can use that fit very well, but in general, the counters aren't as limited as one may initially think. Unlike most small sig OP ships, the scalpel doesn't have a way to fend off its primary threats. As support, it will depend heavily on its line ships to keep it clear. But yes, the dig tank will definitely help with staying alive longer against other threats.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2842	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:18:36 - [59] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Rowells wrote: Those speeds seem really weird. 415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari? yes that is a big disparity especially when you add the sig bloom from extenders, i would suggest bring the other 3 down under 400 good too see them getting only partial T2 resists, the T2 logi cruisers need theres toned down, the assault line should have the best resists. I really think that the difference in speed will play big negative factor in choosing scalpel over Kirin. Adding that on top of the different tanking styles. Unless the issue is that they made the amarr one fast so it wouldn't be useless... Maybe idk
Z1gy Vindicator Corporation 12	Posted - 2015.11.29 07:31:22 - [60] - Quote which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP

Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2845	Posted - 2015.11.29 08:36:15 - [61] - Quote Z1gy wrote: which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP from the T1 logi versions. SISI models reflect it.
Hilti Enaka State War Academy Caldari State 78	Posted - 2015.11.29 12:57:45 - [62] - Quote More barriers to PVP. Logi needs a rethink all together.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2850	Posted - 2015.11.29 14:07:38 - [63] - Quote Funz Orlenard wrote: Why is the minmatar frigate skill giving way more boost to reps as logistics is doing? I think you should replace bonuses of the skills with one another, makes more sense. The point is to make them less dependent on sp. The bonuses have been set up such that not having logi to V doesnt mean you have crippling cap issues and a more significantly weak repping power that will make fc's say 'get logi to V or fly dps'. This way is better and I hope it is applied to all other logi. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1337	Posted - 2015.11.29 15:48:25 - [64] - Quote I tried the pyfa build using singularity stats. The scalpel does have quite the CPU issues. You can fit an LSE one with about 15k ehp including links and full reps, but getting pithii A-type RR to work will encounter some harsh issues with your CPU. If you're in a fleet full of pros that can make the 10mn work without messing up their transversal to the next best HFI, they'll be dank. Both the Kirin and the Deacon can be fitted in a cheap way, with absurd tanks. Assuming a links and a hull price of some 30mil, a 70mil Deacon with coreli A-type RR will put out reps rivaling a pimped Exeq while having a 21m sig, 1.2km/s and 23k ehp in a fleet scenario. The Kirin is a bit more spendy, but also racks up similar sig, 22k ehp and 1km/s as stats, with rep output in melee range rivaling that of 3 meta4-scimis today. As far as T3D gangs go, they finally get their own megatough logistics. Not sure how I feel about logistic frigates with 4.5k armor hp and 80% resists or 5.3k shield hp and 75% avg resists.

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13524	Posted - 2015.11.29 17:32:32 - [65] - Quote Rowells wrote: Those speeds seem really weird. 415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari? It's important to take mass into account when comparing speeds. With prop mods on, the distribution of speeds across the class is a lot more evenly spread. Dunk Dinkle wrote: Do pilots with Logistics skill already trained get grandfathered into the Logistics Frigate skill or will they train it up from zero? It's a new skill for new ships so everyone will need to train it from zero. It's a pretty easy train though. big miker wrote: Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius. Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png The numbers on SISI are a little more extreme than even the original design showed, as they are running with even lower sigs than the OP states on the current SISI build. That being said I do agree that even the original design numbers push sigs a bit too low. In the new iteration of the design I'm increasing base sigs a bit and reducing the strength of the Thalia and Scalpel bonuses. It's still possible that they might be too strong of course, but we can keep an eye on them and see what happens. afkalt wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers" Is this going to be tied to the frigate skill for people who don't have it trained yet; like happened with the mining frigate introduction? Like other Tech 2 skills, Logistics Frigate and Logistics Cruisers will not be in a direct prereq chain. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2479	Posted - 2015.11.29 17:50:51 - [66] - Quote Thank you
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1187	Posted - 2015.11.29 20:13:46 - [67] - Quote you can still just prevent fitting oversized/undersized prop and fix like 100 problems at once
Kibitt Kallinikov Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.11.29 20:38:42 - [68] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Rowells wrote: Those speeds seem really weird. 415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari? It's important to take mass into account when comparing speeds. With prop mods on, the distribution of speeds across the class is a lot more evenly spread. This implies a positive message - that Caldari is more even with the other logi ships (all of them). What it really means is that Amarr is slower than people think it is, and Gal/Min are faster than Cal/Am as per the norm.
Fintarue Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 12	Posted - 2015.11.29 21:04:32 - [69] - Quote Hiya! As pointed out by Big Miker in a previous post about the t2 logi frigs and signature radius, the signature bonus is easily breakable by the people that would most likely be using these ships. I propose this, instead of giving the Thalia and Scalpel a signature tank bonus, instead swap it to a local rep bonus. This still keeps the goal in mind of some form of tank bonus that the caldari and amarr t2 frigs have. This keeps the flavor of the tanking bonuses each race has, and makes it harder to completely break with links and implants. With the reduction in cap useage on the ships, a cap booster on them will easily run local and remote reps. This is already similar to how I run my t1 logi frigs with local reps. I know how you like giving the players choices Fozzie, this would also open more choices for the players to decide on how to tank their ships. This also keeps the flavor similar to how the scimitar and oneiros are flown compared to guardian and basalisk Host of http://www.twitch.tv/fintarue Bringing you the best tunes for the trip to a new clone!
Bob Niac Joint Espionage and Defence Industries Preatoriani 56	Posted - 2015.11.29 21:10:55 - [70] - Quote Fozzie has CCP ever considered splitting logi [cruisers] into 2 hulls? I would love to see the removal of split role logi tbh. We have racial remote preferences to use for assistance mods. ( see previous post.) Doing this would be very much in line with tech 2's directive of specializtion, I think. [u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all -áT2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.

Mad Abbat Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET 18	Posted - 2015.11.30 00:44:44 - [71] - Quote May somebody explain fitting chioces in the current build, and why does Gallente ship has more PG and CPU than Amarr ship? I can see why it can have more CPU (extra mid slot) but more PG??? Amarr should have more PG to be able to fit better (IN) armor plates.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2847	Posted - 2015.11.30 01:36:10 - [72] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Rowells wrote: Those speeds seem really weird. 415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari? It's important to take mass into account when comparing speeds. With prop mods on, the distribution of speeds across the class is a lot more evenly spread. Ok, I see it now. Makes more sense. Another question: Is there any consideration or possibility of these ships getting a similar bonus to remote tracking enhancers like their cruiser counterparts? And on that note, any opinions on the cruisers getting similar tanking bonuses as these ships? I think it would definitely be interesting to see how the different tanking bonuses play out for the logistics meta.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2847	Posted - 2015.11.30 03:07:12 - [73] - Quote Mad Abbat wrote: May somebody explain ship stats choices in the current build, and why does Gallente ship has more PG and CPU than Amarr ship? I can see why it can have more CPU (extra mid slot) but more PG??? Amarr should have more PG to be able to fit better (IN) armor plates. And why only 10% mass difference? The deacon has a built in armor bonus, so it may not need as much PG for plates. Those extra low slots may be better suited for power relays, nanos, or more resists. The thaila would still likely have significantly lower tank even with lower PG, because of no bonus and one less low.
Onslaughtor Reikoku Pandemic Legion 161	Posted - 2015.12.01 03:18:59 - [74] - Quote I just have to ask about the design behind haveing the amarr and caldari not haveing cap transfer bonuses. As someone who FCs smaller fleets I have been waiting on these but am a little sad that I wont have the options for reliable cap transfers on ships that actually could really use them.
NeoShocker Oppose Militancy and Neutralize Invasion. Exodus. 219	Posted - 2015.12.01 11:00:46 - [75] - Quote Mm, time to hunt for Kirin then! I always been slacking off to get the amor and weapons, but now I have a reason to! Oh wait ... wrong game ... I mean... I can't wait to fly it! :D
Xindi Kraid Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 1081	Posted - 2015.12.01 16:13:44 - [76] - Quote The production for the Amarr T2 is going to be a bit weird since CCP made the decision to turn the old mining frigate into a combat ship and an old combat ship into the support frig, so now we have the stealth bomber already being made from the support frigate hull that would otherwise have been used to build a T2 logi.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 895	Posted - 2015.12.01 22:30:36 - [77] - Quote Nah, they aren't going to be OP at all. [Deacon, Deacon fit] Damage Control II Energized Thermal Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II Capacitor Power Relay II 10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner Cap Recharger II Coreli A-Type Small Remote Armor Repairer Coreli A-Type Small Remote Armor Repairer Coreli A-Type Small Remote Armor Repairer Small Anti-EM Pump II Small Anti-Kinetic Pump II Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1 Genolution Core Augmentation CA-4 Genolution Core Augmentation CA-3 Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2 Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Systems Operation EO-605 Inherent Implants 'Noble' Remote Armor Repair Systems RA-705 Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Management EM-805 Above is cap stable with all 5s. Evasive Maneuvers 2 link makes the sig 22.8 and speed 2189. Nah. Not OP at all.
Mad Abbat Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET 21	Posted - 2015.12.02 01:04:50 - [78] - Quote are you aware that is a niche fit, and w/o 400mm plate that ship is useless in a FW fleet fight? ofc you can fit like that and be one shotted by a thasher/svipul gang. you know.. hyenas, derptrons etc etc etc as a supprt ships do fit webs...
Haoibuni Air The Initiative. 51	Posted - 2015.12.02 13:20:26 - [79] - Quote Deacons are going to be nicknamed Joey.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 904	Posted - 2015.12.02 22:22:56 - [80] - Quote Mad Abbat wrote: are you aware that is a niche fit, and w/o 400mm plate that ship is useless in a FW fleet fight? ofc you can fit like that and be one shotted by a thasher/svipul gang. you know.. hyenas, derptrons etc etc etc as a supprt ships do fit webs... You do realize how much low sig and speed add to your tank? Small gangs of 3 of these and some Confessors will be painful.

Mad Abbat Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET 22	Posted - 2015.12.02 23:19:40 - [81] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Mad Abbat wrote: are you aware that is a niche fit, and w/o 400mm plate that ship is useless in a FW fleet fight? ofc you can fit like that and be one shotted by a thasher/svipul gang. you know.. hyenas, derptrons etc etc etc as a supprt ships do fit webs... You do realize how much low sig and speed add to your tank? Small gangs of 3 of these and some Confessors will be painful. It adds notnig, when you are webbed and painted. And yes, as I said, good for small gang, bad for FW plex brawl.
Slaktoid Perkone Caldari State 43	Posted - 2015.12.02 23:32:38 - [82] - Quote Logistics is a **** game mechanic. Peace out.
Torei Dutalis IceBox Inc. 41	Posted - 2015.12.03 21:28:49 - [83] - Quote Obligatory disapproval of additional anti-explosion ships post.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 904	Posted - 2015.12.03 22:36:22 - [84] - Quote These will also make good fleet tacklers. Look at the scan res.
Kaska Iskalar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2015.12.04 02:35:44 - [85] - Quote Harvey James wrote: also not a fan of having sig analysis lv5 as a pre req, training skills too lv5 should be optional as much as possible All T2 ships require lv5's.
rsantos TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh 47	Posted - 2015.12.04 14:31:16 - [86] - Quote My 2 cents! Game doesn't need more combat or logistic frigates! Bye!
Eodp Ellecon Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team 27	Posted - 2015.12.05 03:13:46 - [87] - Quote Rowells wrote: Z1gy wrote: which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP from the T1 logi versions. SISI models reflect it. While this is a snappy player answer, it's still not a Dev answer, which I asked on page 2....the Amarrian T1 Logi = Inquisitor that bpc's to invention of the Amarrian T2 Bomber = Purifier. So either they need to spec out the Logi to Logi invention by moving the Purifier to another hull, in all likelihood - Tormentor. The question is will it be right on patch day.
Lee Church SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 10	Posted - 2015.12.05 16:34:01 - [88] - Quote Flyinghotpocket wrote: so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor no inquisitor pilots asked for a 5th low. they wanted a mid. the amarr navy designed a 3rd mid. not a 5th low. EDIT: Replied to wrong post
Lee Church SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 10	Posted - 2015.12.05 16:36:20 - [89] - Quote Rowells wrote: Those speeds seem really weird. 415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari? The amarr and gallente ships will fit plates. That will drag their speed down to be more in line with the caldari. The minmatar version will then be out ahead of the pack, as it should be. If the caldari was dragged up to the level of the amarr and gallente, or they were dragged down, the caldari one would be faster just from not using plates, when it is intended to be slower.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2857	Posted - 2015.12.05 16:49:07 - [90] - Quote Eodp Ellecon wrote: Rowells wrote: Z1gy wrote: which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP from the T1 logi versions. SISI models reflect it. While this is a snappy player answer, it's still not a Dev answer, which I asked on page 2....the Amarrian T1 Logi = Inquisitor that bpc's to invention of the Amarrian T2 Bomber = Purifier. So either they need to spec out the Logi to Logi invention by moving the Purifier to another hull, in all likelihood - Tormentor. The question is will it be right on patch day. They would also need to change the gallente BPC too. And since gallente have no missile ships, there is no 'sensible' ship to change it to. It is as it has been for years, and I see no reason why it would need to change suddenly. Bombers are special outliers in their design. Wait for a dev tag if you want, but that's likely how it's going to be.

BABARR PARABELUM-Project Vendetta Mercenary Group 30	Posted - 2015.12.05 21:54:08 - [91] - Quote Base speed is too much, stop kidding CCP....
Zaknussem Everybody Loves Donuts 88	Posted - 2015.12.06 11:30:39 - [92] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Kirin Let us know what you think! Since SiSi has confirmed that these new T2 frigates are based on the T1 Logi frigate hulls, there's something you should be made aware of. In the Kamokor system in Lonetrek is a Data Center for the Caldari State, where several agents can be found. One of them (Korhonomi Oti) is in-space in a Bantam. Except it's a T2 Bantam and it's called a Sparrow, not a Kirin. He's been there, in that same Sparrow, since I started playing in 2007, probably longer. Back then the ship had the Lai Dai paintjob, but it lost that skin a couple of graphical overhauls ago. Go and have a look. I just did, and he's still there. This leaves CCP with two choices: Either to change the agent's ship class to a Kirin, or rename the Kirin ships to Sparrow. The latter makes sense because it's a small bird, when many Caldari vessels are already named after birds, and the T1 > T2 progression is from one small bird (the Bantam) to another (the Sparrow), while the Kirin is a mythological quadruped of an inappropriate size. But knowing CCP's level of competence, the Kirin will probably prevail. Please bring the Sparrow into EVE in the role it's always intended to be. Use the Kirin name for a later ship class (preferably something bigger than a tiny frigate!)
Eodp Ellecon Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team 27	Posted - 2015.12.07 00:16:29 - [93] - Quote Rowells wrote: Eodp Ellecon wrote: Rowells wrote: Z1gy wrote: which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP from the T1 logi versions. SISI models reflect it. While this is a snappy player answer, it's still not a Dev answer, which I asked on page 2....the Amarrian T1 Logi = Inquisitor that bpc's to invention of the Amarrian T2 Bomber = Purifier. So either they need to spec out the Logi to Logi invention by moving the Purifier to another hull, in all likelihood - Tormentor. The question is will it be right on patch day. They would also need to change the gallente BPC too. And since gallente have no missile ships, there is no 'sensible' ship to change it to. It is as it has been for years, and I see no reason why it would need to change suddenly. Bombers are special outliers in their design. Wait for a dev tag if you want, but that's likely how it's going to be. Actually they don't have to for the Gallente. T1 Navitas bpo/bpc path is clear. They moved the bomber off it back at least as far as Crius to the Tristan when they updated the body.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2857	Posted - 2015.12.07 02:28:11 - [94] - Quote Eodp Ellecon wrote: Rowells wrote: Eodp Ellecon wrote: Rowells wrote: Z1gy wrote: which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP from the T1 logi versions. SISI models reflect it. While this is a snappy player answer, it's still not a Dev answer, which I asked on page 2....the Amarrian T1 Logi = Inquisitor that bpc's to invention of the Amarrian T2 Bomber = Purifier. So either they need to spec out the Logi to Logi invention by moving the Purifier to another hull, in all likelihood - Tormentor. The question is will it be right on patch day. They would also need to change the gallente BPC too. And since gallente have no missile ships, there is no 'sensible' ship to change it to. It is as it has been for years, and I see no reason why it would need to change suddenly. Bombers are special outliers in their design. Wait for a dev tag if you want, but that's likely how it's going to be. Actually they don't have to for the Gallente. T1 Navitas bpo/bpc path is clear. They moved the bomber off it back at least as far as Crius to the Tristan when they updated the body. the nemesis has been on the tristan line since way before crius. They didnt move it anywhere for that. They updated the nemesis model when inferno brought missile launcher models, and they updated the tristan last year along with some other skins and such. The purifier has been based off of the Inquisitor hull, since before the inquisitor was a logistics frigate. What purpose would moving the purifier from the inquisitor do? It's surely not the first hull to have 2 T2 variants from it. You say it's "needed", but why is it really needed? Is there some sort of downside to having it the way it is? Or, what benefit would switching the hulls have? but, then again, I was answering the question of what they were based from, not why they should be changed or remain the same.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1330	Posted - 2015.12.08 03:12:40 - [95] - Quote Eodp Ellecon wrote: Rowells wrote: Eodp Ellecon wrote: Rowells wrote: Z1gy wrote: which t1 ships CCP gonna based the t2 hull from ? it was not mentioned in the OP from the T1 logi versions. SISI models reflect it. While this is a snappy player answer, it's still not a Dev answer, which I asked on page 2....the Amarrian T1 Logi = Inquisitor that bpc's to invention of the Amarrian T2 Bomber = Purifier. So either they need to spec out the Logi to Logi invention by moving the Purifier to another hull, in all likelihood - Tormentor. The question is will it be right on patch day. They would also need to change the gallente BPC too. And since gallente have no missile ships, there is no 'sensible' ship to change it to. It is as it has been for years, and I see no reason why it would need to change suddenly. Bombers are special outliers in their design. Wait for a dev tag if you want, but that's likely how it's going to be. Actually they don't have to for the Gallente. T1 Navitas bpo/bpc path is clear. They moved the bomber off it back at least as far as Crius to the Tristan when they updated the body. you do understand that a t1 bpo can be researched into more than one type of t2 bpc right? Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
soranno 14th Legion The Bloc 37	Posted - 2015.12.12 10:45:15 - [96] - Quote Makes no sense to me that these are prevented from entering FW small plexes. Assuming it was just an oversight, and not a bizarre decision, I hope it wont take weeks to fix it.
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 551	Posted - 2015.12.16 03:24:08 - [97] - Quote this fix doesnt take 6 months to work out. t2 logi frigates in fw in the small. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Sitting Bull Lakota Careless Bears LLC 53	Posted - 2015.12.18 09:42:16 - [98] - Quote The deacon looks like the inquisitor. The purifier is also based off of the inquisitor. Clearly the purifier is out of place right? Wrong. Before the Retribution release, the Inquisitor was a combat frigate with a bonus to missile damage. With the first grand round of tiericide, the old mining/logi hybrid frigates and cruisers were totally redone. The navitas lost its mining bonus and gained armor repair. The burst lost its mining bonus and gained shield repair. The bantam lost its mining bonus and gained shield repair. The tormentor lost its mining bonus and gained small energy turret cap usage and damage. Well that makes sense right? I complained then (not on the forums), and I'll complain now. Let us a raise a glass of good rum to the Li'l Missile Murder Frig that never got the chance.


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