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Agony Unleased = PVP Training? *Fixed*

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Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:30:00 - [31] Originally by: Gharthak The whole intent of this post was not to start a smack fest on forums and maybe I should have made that clear. Oh get off it that was completely your intent, the post can not be interpreted in any other way. Originally by: Gharthak Its simply that the AGONY Unleashed pilots have shown to me bad judgements and bad tactics - example would be the solo brutix pilot who did have the guts to engage my Drake - and he didnt have a single piece of TII gear onboard and somehow thought he could win that fight? In one breath you say we are cowards and another breath you say an Agony pilot took on a fight in which the odds werent in his favor? Which is it? Agony pilots will somethimed engage pilots that have a good chance of killing them for the rush. Killing an ares with a crow is not nearly so much fun as killing the ares with a Merlin. Its a chance to show off skill. The fight you are referring to he lost. The next one he might have won. Or are yo uasserting that you never loose a fight? Originally by: Gharthak In other words. AGONY Unleashed wants to charge tens of millions of isk of pilots/corps to train them how to PVP and their own pilots excercise bad tactics and bad judgement. If your going to pirate - pirate right correctly. :) I cant see sending my newb pilots to their courses in light of this - and several months ago I had considered it but their abilities have proven to me that its a waste of iskies in the future. Quite frankly we dont make a great deal of ISK off the courses. Not nearly the hordes of money most people think we make. This is despite every class being sold out. The fact is we do it to get people into PvP and to have fun. A class is a place to learn, not measure appendages. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Kristyl Jade	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:35:00 - [32] Quote: A class is a place to learn, not measure appendages. QFT!
Zaphod Jones Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:36:00 - [33] I have only really faced AU once, was a strange but fun occurence. Scrapheap Challenge Ganknight II in Great Wildlands A complete mixture of corps in gang (including many reds working together), AU dont suspect anything is up due to the mixture of local. My Huginn warps to gate, 3 AU inties see me and think WTF, may as well attack him, 1st one is dead before he gets within 20k the next dies at about 10k when the third starts to engage a few more of them have entered local but the ganknight boys have also just come out of warp. I think a few of the AU class may have escaped but not many, was excellent fun, no smack, and some nice loot. SHC Ganknight 4.5 is soon approaching beware in local.
Kyguard Fire Mandrill Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:37:00 - [34] Agony Unleashed are pretty cool, nuff said. -
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Kyguard Agony Unleashed are pretty cool, nuff said. Thanks Kyguard ... my complements to you once again. Let me know if you need a job in game. We fought so many fun engagements in Syndicate. I remember the Pilgrim Thorax battle and how we puzzled through scenarios to attempt take out you and Xtreem in your uber-raxes. Great times and great respect. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Greater Mind Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Gharthak Edited by: Gharthak on 11/01/2007 09:47:35 1: Run away from a fair fight. 2007.01.01 21:55 Victim: *** Alliance: * Corp: * Destroyed: Raptor System: *** Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Greater Mind (laid the final blow) Security: 0.6 Alliance: None Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Merlin Weapon: Foxfire Rocket Destroyed items: Salvager I, Qty: 6 125mm Railgun II, Qty: 2 Rocket Launcher II Thorn Javelin Rocket, Qty: 5 Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I Small Armor Repairer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Nanofiber Internal Structure I T1 fitted Merlin vs. T2 fitted interceptor? Sounds like a fair fight to me
Alvar Ursidae Amarr Decisive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:23:00 - [37] I just thought I might add a few cents to the comments here. First off I am EX-Agony. My reasons for leaving are personal, as I wanted to do some different things. Things agony doesn't do, like Piracy. Agony pilots are a VAST mix of skill sets and experiences. Some are fresh to the game, new to the characters, with just the basic skills, while others are multiple million SP characters able to fly and fit everything around. What makes Agony great, is that one thing that ties them together. A better experience in PvP. This does NOT come from jumping into a massive gate camp, or sitting at a gate to be ganked by bigger numbers. Loads of people smack talk about Agony in local, and here too it seems, but since proof is in the pudding they usually in game shut up once they get shown. Agony pilots are trained to think, to apply their skill sets to the fullest, and to fly smart. As a result, if they have low numbers, they will choose to decline an engagement. I have seen BS pilots call a frigate pilot out for a 1v1. Then I have seen pilots who lose a T2 fitted BS to an agony gang, claim victory for killing 3 T1 fitted frigates! I was in one of the most devestating destroyer classes Agony ever held. In Syndicate, we ran 30 destroyers through it from end to end, and in the end of that we had done over 1.5 BILLION ISK in damage, to a loss of about 100mil in ships and mods, in only a few hours. Agony my not fall on your sword, and don't like a lot of players might like, instead they think about what they are doing, and most times get it right. I think a lot of you are bitter because of Agony tactics don't allow your big nasty muscle boat to get some easy kills. Instead Agony uses real tactics, and thinks it's way through combat. Not always successfully, but they do try. Me, I will fly with Agony at any time. Most who have flown with us them are the same, and those that have engaged in long combats with Agony have learned to respect them. The OP WAS a flame starting post. No two ways about it. -= services =-
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Yoshi Toranaga Originally by: Zimi Vlasic Actual quote from agony guy: "How do you rat up here? These serpentis rats are really tough!" I remember that night. We took a small gang of 2 intys and 8 rifters to Fade to find some targets. After killing a few of you, you all left system. You then jumped in 2! smartbombing carriers, killing your own cynosaural pilot and none of us, while we were killing your interdictor 40km's away. System grew kinda quiet after that and we decided to go ratting in your space, while you camped the neighboring system with 30 odd pilots .. ever heard of sarcasm? That's why I want you guys in Fade more often. You help cull the newbs. and it's not my space, weren't my carriers, wasn't my dictor, and most certainly wasn't my plan. The only people I'm responsible for are people in my corp, and I'm pretty sure you didn't kill any of us. The SB carriers were in a different gang than mine. The hauler was a suicide hauler. The dictor was ****ed he died but their plan was pretty ill-conceived. I think they got impatient. I even yelled at my gang for bringing BSes. I can't believe people bring BSes to kill a buncha T1 frigs and a couple intys. I know you guys killed a thorax in l-c as well that warped right into you. I'd like to encourage anyone that got killed by you guys to enroll in your classes...maybe it will teach them to listen a bit Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer
comojo	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:56:00 - [39] Alvar I remember that night was my first wolfpack class man what a night, i went to bed at 4am that night or should i say morning with the shivers, never had so much fun with end to end stuff. Oh and for the record yes about 1.5 billion damage but received 100m i dont think so we lost about 6 dessis in total that night i think max cost was around 25m max. And as for that screenshot close to the start oh i remember that, yes we died yes you got mass kills however, this was a mistake by our covert op pilot (who i wont name for security reasons :) )who thankfully has never done that again. The moral of the story was he was learning just as those who go on the class, it was his first time in covert op he learnt lesson badly but in the many months since he did that he has made up for it time and time again. Oh its good to die like that sometimes you can learn so much from one big mistake like that and you can be sure you do your best not to repeat it ever again.
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:57:00 - [40] Originally by: Plutoinum Remember one funny accounter starting in GW, when we chased them back to empire. Somehow in the first empire system a drake pilot thought the hunt is over, since he stayed at that gate watching us. Well, two battle-cruisers can tank two sentries pretty well for a short time even the nano-hurricane that I flew and a sec. hit doesn't really hurt, if you have 5.0 already ... Guess lesson learned: Don't attack someone in 0.0 and think the fun is over in low sec, just because the opponent is no pirate. Oh of course not. I wasn't in that encounter so I don't know the details, but I recall two similar instances being chased into egbinger and then making a counter attack with the sentry gun advantage. One involved killing a Raven, Scorpion, and other cruiser whilest losing only a thorax and t1 frig. The other involved killing an Abbadon, huginn, sabre, hurricane, and blackbird whilest losing 5 t1 frigs, a bait enyo, and a vexor. When outmatched, we try to do something to give us fighting advantage and if nothing can be done, we decline the fight. As for the catching the drake. No idea since I don't know the details. Confusion in battleplans perhaps? who knows. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
Cthulhu Destroyer Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:45:00 - [41] All I care to add to this thread is: Those who fly with us or have fought us for extended periods will tell you what you need to know about AGONY's effectiveness. Everyone else is either jumping on the "lol noob pvp teachers" bandwagon (with no idea how we actually function or fight), or have lost very very expensive ships to us and try to justify the loss by attacking our tactics. And yes, I was the pilot that made it through your 30 man gatecamp (with several bubbles, nice piece of work actually) and relayed the fact that my gang was ratting to your campers ^_^ (I still want reimbursement for those pizzas that got cold) OP: Even though I don't particularly care about the amount of smack we get on these forums, I cannot see your post as anything but flaming. Regardless of your position when you encountered AGONY pilots as non-friendlies, you are now with NEC and as such your comments reflect (poorly) on them. For my part, I have never encountered an unfriendly NEC pilot in space.
Zembla Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:06:00 - [42] Edited by: Zembla on 12/01/2007 01:04:45 Originally by: Christina Bamar Also, as far as criticizing our PVP Uni... we offer a better service for pvp training than any other entity in EVE. It's easy to criticize and poke fun, but really we provide a gateway into PvP that no one else has been able to match. We've had hundreds of satisfied customers, and opened up the best side of EVE to many who wouldn't have seen it otherwise. It's easy to make fun of us for being "noobies" or whatever, but the bottom line is that we're actually doing something to encourage people to go into pvp, something that I think is a pretty damn good thing. I don't care much if you guys gank people, I don't care if you hide if you're outnumbered, if you stay away from absurd numbers, I don't care much. What does tick me off a bit though, is what Christina said above. You are not the only entity in EVE launching people into pvp or guiding them there. EVE University has been doing this ever since they started off almost 3 years ago. The nature of their tutoring may be slightly different, namely that they offer courses in any field, and also that they require you to be member to participate in the courses (IIRC), but the end result is the same. EVE Univsity has been involved in all out 0.0 warfare in defense of its own space, and has proven itself more than capable (TBB and the IPS constellation). Agony Unleashed I've only had dealings with when an occasional gang or solo-ganker flew around a bit through Syndicate while I was down there, so I don't have a good idea of your capacities. Though I do know that you're in error to claim you're the only one to offer such a service. EVE-U offers a similar service, and has some great teachers etc. Don't mistake me for a fanboy, I'm just trying to correct a lack of credit where there is credit due. <Z>
Christina Bamar Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:27:00 - [43] Edited by: Christina Bamar on 12/01/2007 01:27:15 You're correct about EVE-U providing training; however, I stand by my statement. All kinds of corps train their own members(which is what EVE University does). We're the only corp that I know of that trains non-members and the only real alternative for a corp or alliance who wants their members trained without doing it themselves. I have a lot of respect for what EVE University does, but the service they provide is very different from ours.
Henrique Padua	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:45:00 - [44] Edited by: Henrique Padua on 12/01/2007 02:50:15 As a recent member of Agony Unleashed, i can say Agony got me completely addicted to the game once more when i was thinking of quiting eve. And now i go to bed at crazy hours to work in the next day wid my heart still pumping. Even while at work i cant stay away of Agony Unleashed's website so i can keep in COMM with all of them. They got me to be the best i can possibly be in PvP. Im now in a corp i respected since i found out about. Took their (now ours) basic class. Went like crazy to their(now ours) wolfpack class, repeated them several times, and when i thought it couldnt get any better, I JOINED AGONY UNLEASHED. And man... i know im a noob, but i know im on the right path to achieve all my goals. U shouldnt talk about what u dont know. Smacking our tactics wont make u overcome the poor results u had in your so called past... and i quote: "between into different corps". Gharthak wid tons of respect, man... and this comes from a noob, why dont u take Agony Unleashed's BASIC course? My guess is that u would forseek AU's wolfpack course too on the next possible class. And maybe u could pass it and attend one of Au's advanced course, and them MAYBE, but only maybe, u could learn about psychological warfare and finally understand what u just did creating this thread. cant tell ya koz i aint no instructor. FRIENDLY WORD TO NEC One of these days while i was moving my hauler through 0.0 to put my poor t1 stuff where i needed it to be i jumped right into an awesome large bubble camp from NEC... the ones i bet... just like u say... U DO NOT represent, or else REPRESENT QUITE BADLY. No need to say they gave my scan alt(not in Agony) a fast trip back to station, then i jumped in the XL bubble camp wid the hauler, took me about 7 mins to fly out of it and be able to warp away, they were awesomely cool wid me. That was without doubts one of the best gate camps i ever seen. Quite impossible to get through alive, wont say why so it can remain THEIR(NEC) secret. Cooler than they were the only way i can imagine is if they bumped my hauler to get out of that bubble faster. I believe u should have done your homework b4 creating this thread, wich by the way i cant imagine its purpose. Anyways, take care buddy. Not gonna say "fly safe" if u want to fly safe... just log" U being on NEC and all, if the situation arrises i will prolly loose my poor t1 frig trying to get u out of a dangerous situation as an honourable payment of the politeness ive been shown from NEC. But maybe we can see more of u out there in one more of yours... and i quote: "between into different corps" situation.
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:52:00 - [45] <---- very satisfied Agony customer right here. Highly recommend the class. /waves to Gemini Zero who I actually convinced to take the class with me and is now one of their best pilots. Still get called primary in almost every engagement? ----------------------------------------------------
Logan Williams Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.12 08:46:00 - [46] Perhaps I've only ever run into decent members of Agony Unleashed. I remember trying to probe out a guy in Great Wildlands who was hunting Angels in a Cyclone. (Angels > Serpentis/Guristas imho) The guy had the presence of mind to keep scanning for probes. They did engage some of our Alcatraz guys while I was there as well. They outnumbered us....by maybe one or two.....and we had vastly superior ships. I also seem to recall thinking "COOL!! Agony Unleashed is up here!!" When returning to the north. I didn't think this because I thought they hid away and never fight. I thought this because past experience had taught me that lesser skills or ships or what, Agony Unleashed bring the fight to the best of their ability. Thinking back, I don't recall ever seeing much smacktalk from them in local either. Sorry OP but, even as annoying as they are, I'd have to give them a "thumbs up" on heart. I can also see where being in that corp might provide a relatively high level of fun (especially in the absence of politics). Aren't games meant to be fun?
RuleoftheBone Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.12 10:21:00 - [47] Current related thread in C&P (ignore the flames): http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=457057 As this area is Alliance-specific: 1-Non-combatants (i.e. miners/producers) would benefit. 2-New recruits would learn basic fleet tactics without potentially borking an actual fleet operation. It also gets them trigger time in a neutral environment where mistakes are expected/tolerated and they don't have to feel bad in front of corp/alliance mates if they do screw up. 3-Introduction to commo discipline which would help FC's in maintaining their sanity 4-Cost effective (I think the two courses-Basic/Wolfpacks are a combined cost of 11 million isk not including ships/fittings. Call it 15 million total for both...whats that...20 minutes of ratting in 0.0?) 5-Breaks "bigger is better" mindset and may save your rookie/non-combatant pilots from losing their treasured NPC Raven when a T1 frig/DD would do the job. The course also teaches realistic basic combat fitting's for Frigs/DD's so your support fleets actually have useful tackle points/ew fitted versus trying to tank with a Rifter 6-They might get "killed" on the course. Takes away that "fear"....wierd how that can happen. Just my two cents/pence/isk. I would recommend AU...especially Wolfpacks
Mitchum DuFinn Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.12 11:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Gharthak Stein, Check character corp history. Was in a different corp at the time of engagement. I wanted a change of atmosphere and ended up missing the old guys and went back to NEC. Brief change. Anyways. The whole intent of this post was not to start a smack fest on forums and maybe I should have made that clear. Its simply that the AGONY Unleashed pilots have shown to me bad judgements and bad tactics - example would be the solo brutix pilot who did have the guts to engage my Drake - and he didnt have a single piece of TII gear onboard and somehow thought he could win that fight? In other words. AGONY Unleashed wants to charge tens of millions of isk of pilots/corps to train them how to PVP and their own pilots excercise bad tactics and bad judgement. If your going to pirate - pirate right correctly. :) I cant see sending my newb pilots to their courses in light of this - and several months ago I had considered it but their abilities have proven to me that its a waste of iskies in the future. Guilty as charged. I admit it, it was really dumb to engage. However at that point in time I really only had 3 choices: 1) Logoffski, that'd make me a real wimp. 2) Redockski, that'd make me a real gimp. (the smart thing though) 3) Stand my ground and take my licks. I've never seen a Drake up close before. Lets call it a learning experience. I don't think I'll be soloing many Drakes with that configuration again. So, as to the original post I'd say that options 1 and 2 would just add fuel to your fire. I chose option 3. I got potted like a plant and you got a kill mail. No whining here.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:13:00 - [49] Mitch is also way too much of a gentleman to point out the fact that it wasnt just your drake vs his brutix but that you called in a friend to help you in the middle of the battle. What's the matter Gharthak? Not so sure you could do it on your own? You bluster falls a little flat on its face there. P.S. I have talked with Marauder, executor of NEC alliance, and he has said to me flat out that Gharthak's views are not shared in any way, shape or form by the NEC alliance. We continue to be friendly with NEC in general. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Ramirez Theed	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:24:00 - [50] Edited by: Ramirez Theed on 12/01/2007 17:21:36 snip (stupid alt posting)
Ragel Tropxe The Older Gamers	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:30:00 - [51] wow I'm famous - my corpse is one of those in the picture earlier in this thread Agony rock as far as I'm concerned - I've flown with them a few times and always had great fun. keep it going Agony! charge in!...pod out!
Saint Battalion Decepticons of War	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Ragel Tropxe wow I'm famous - my corpse is one of those in the picture earlier in this thread Agony rock as far as I'm concerned - I've flown with them a few times and always had great fun. keep it going Agony! lol I'd love to have been on TS with you guys when that smartboming Megathron let loose on ya. But seriously Agony are ok guys, had good fights with them back in Syndicate and Rells always took it on the chin like a man when he lost.
Alexandre Martin Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.12 23:16:00 - [53] Just remember that when we lose, the suicide kessies come out :P
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.13 07:54:00 - [54] Originally by: Saint Battalion Originally by: Ragel Tropxe wow I'm famous - my corpse is one of those in the picture earlier in this thread Agony rock as far as I'm concerned - I've flown with them a few times and always had great fun. keep it going Agony! lol I'd love to have been on TS with you guys when that smartboming Megathron let loose on ya. But seriously Agony are ok guys, had good fights with them back in Syndicate and Rells always took it on the chin like a man when he lost. It wouldnt have been very spectacular. It was a bad covops drop. You would have jsut heard me telling people forcefully to get out of range. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Sinder Ohm Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:24:00 - [55] Edited by: Sinder Ohm on 15/01/2007 19:22:34 Originally by: Rells Originally by: Saint Battalion lol I'd love to have been on TS with you guys when that smartboming Megathron let loose on ya. But seriously Agony are ok guys, had good fights with them back in Syndicate and Rells always took it on the chin like a man when he lost. It wouldnt have been very spectacular. It was a bad covops drop. You would have jsut heard me telling people forcefully to get out of range. I remember that class Too bad I heard the order when I was already in warp. Btw keep up the good work agony I did learn alot from your classes that I took part in the past Originally by: Blind Man okies so liek when u warp in on them u shod target them... and stuff k.then u FIRE ZE MISSILES
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 17:02:00 - [56] Hmmm, so their squad commander calls for a biobreak and you get a thread like this? ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Cerias Shadows Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:13:00 - [57] Have no idea what DrAtomic is talking about... give us a quote im lost. ~CS
Galaor Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:06:00 - [58] As a former student and corp member, I have nothing but praise for AU. You can't really put them down by citing one or two examples when their recon or FC messed up, as for each of those there must be a hundred other times when they got it right. The thing I liked the most was that after the patrol was over I could always ask why a certain decision was made and I got a coherent answer. I learned a hell of a lot, and I'd recommend them to anybody.
Elena Bothari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.22 02:46:00 - [59] Edited by: Elena Bothari on 22/01/2007 02:53:40 As a former student of Agony I have nothing but praise for Agony. As a former Agony pilot, my views are somewhat different. By all means, take the courses. They are cheap at the price and show Agony at it's best. Don't let that fool you however.... Agony from the inside is an entirely different story, with an ego-centric commander, arbitrary decisions, and a ruthless suppression of anything even approaching dissenting discussion. Then of course there is the endless litany of "you don't appreciate what we do for you...." In just over 4 months I have seen two major regional moves, a major command purge, and Rells throwing a hissy and claiming to be AFG for 8 months... I have seen a hike in the corp tax rate to 20%, but only for those who run missions or rat. Industrialists and traders are, of course, exempt. The bottom line? Stay out of Agony as a member, but take the courses. They at least are worth the price of admission.
Nova Z Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:01:00 - [60] Edited by: Nova Z on 22/01/2007 11:06:03 LMAO! 1) Both regional moves were following input from members and although the second wasn't initially planned, more members felt it offered many better opportunities. 2) The 'purge' was to remove the 'deadwood' of inactive members that are present in most corps so that the corp numbers more accurately reflect the active members. 3) The tax rise was following a post by an Agony member (not Rells), who volunteered to have the tax raised in order to help fund the expansion of the corp. Pretty much all of the active members on the Agony forums commented and no-one else seems to have had a problem with it, given all the benefits that we do get with Agony. It would be interesting to hear if any other members have such poor views of the corp as you do Elena - but this is really a matter for our private forums. It just sounds really childish to bring your problems here. .

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