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Agony Unleased = PVP Training? *Fixed*

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Gharthak Gallente The 5 Amigo's LLC. New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.11 08:50:00 - [1] Well for months I've seen advertisements from Agony Unleased for their various courses for their.. PVP University.. This past week and a half or so I've came across quite a handfull of AGONY unleased pilots pirating random members. My observations so far is that they: 1: Run away from a fair fight. 2: Run away from a fight that is numerically in their odds 3: Dock for hours on end afraid that my little drake and hyperion are going to get them (this is like 2 on 6 odds keep in mind). So this mighty university is supposed to teach people how to PVP. Once I figured I might even send a bunch of my newbs their way as I recruit them.. Let them get some training... But my question is.. Did they forget to teach their own? I'm not exactly the jedi master of PVP myself but I have to say.. these guys suck. They were trying to snipe ships at a stargate 75 km away in destroyers. :) Oh for those in AGONY - this was when I was between into different corps.. different standings.
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.11 08:58:00 - [2] The few encounters I've seen from them in the pure blind area have been pretty decent. They used a lot of fast long range snipe ships (harpy, hurricanes, cormorants) and managed to use snipe spots to instant pop lots of support craft then warp away. Completely impossible to pin down. Good enough for me.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.11 09:30:00 - [3] Remember one funny accounter starting in GW, when we chased them back to empire. Somehow in the first empire system a drake pilot thought the hunt is over, since he stayed at that gate watching us. Well, two battle-cruisers can tank two sentries pretty well for a short time even the nano-hurricane that I flew and a sec. hit doesn't really hurt, if you have 5.0 already ... Guess lesson learned: Don't attack someone in 0.0 and think the fun is over in low sec, just because the opponent is no pirate. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 11:14:00 - [4] Many moons ago I was with a gang of em who knowingly engaged a Bob Bs gang in syndicate, everyone was in a frigate. Admitadly we did get pounded but at that point there was no fear of engaging heavy odds. I cant say how they are now though since that incident lies 6 months in the past, I still continue to endorse their Basic course for beginner pvp pilots, they really do supply a crapton of useful information.
Jhonen Senraedi Minmatar Decimus Corp Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.01.11 11:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Plutoinum Well, two battle-cruisers can tank two sentries pretty well for a short time even the nano-hurricane that I flew and a sec. hit doesn't really hurt, if you have 5.0 already ... Guess lesson learned: Don't attack someone in 0.0 and think the fun is over in low sec, just because the opponent is no pirate. Such a shame that your alliance now actively endorses piracy and flies alongside such as allies....guess it's not just GW you guys lost...but a certain amount of your moral values as well! This is my view...and although it may be shared by others...I do not speak on their behalf..nor on the behalf of my corp,my alliance or any other entity.
Gragnor Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.11 11:31:00 - [6] I am afraid I disagree with the OP. I was a carebear, we all are when we start out playing. I was getting owned every time I stepped out into zero sec by veterans. Basically all I was good for was gank bait. I saw the ads on the forums, I went and did their basic course, learned heaps and came back for their wolfpack course. The instructors are very good. They love the game. They teach noobs how to survive in the nastiest space. Agony have earned my respect for what they did for me. And I recommend their courses to anyone new to the game. As for your experience, well, all I can say is that you only gloat over victories against a worthy foe.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.11 12:09:00 - [7] Edited by: Plutoinum on 11/01/2007 12:14:05 Edited by: Plutoinum on 11/01/2007 12:08:18 Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi Originally by: Plutoinum Well, two battle-cruisers can tank two sentries pretty well for a short time even the nano-hurricane that I flew and a sec. hit doesn't really hurt, if you have 5.0 already ... Guess lesson learned: Don't attack someone in 0.0 and think the fun is over in low sec, just because the opponent is no pirate. Such a shame that your alliance now actively endorses piracy and flies alongside such as allies....guess it's not just GW you guys lost...but a certain amount of your moral values as well! This is my view...and although it may be shared by others...I do not speak on their behalf..nor on the behalf of my corp,my alliance or any other entity. Lol. Our policy has always been NBSI in 0.0 and fire-at-will at hostiles in low sec. There we are even less aggressive than alliances, who allow piracy. And for sure, if someone attacks someone of us, he counts as hostile. Doesn't even require setting them from neutral to red first. And if you talk about INFOD, they are ex-V and yes they are pirates. So what ? We also fly with LV and some of them are known pirates. Can't say that I care much. They follow their policy with neutrals in low sec and we ours. There are more important things in EVE than to debate about how to treat neutrals in low sec, when it comes to alliance politics. edit: This was also just my personal view of course ! Good that I'm not a diplomat. Hrhr. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Zhaine Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.11 12:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Plutoinum edit: This was also just my personal view of course ! Good that I'm not a diplomat. Hrhr. Heh /me think you should be tbh Of everone still in V you make the most sense I reckon. - - - - - - - - - - World's best insult: Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr You thundering retard. Coreli: Our boosters make you happy. . .
Saint Battalion Decepticons of War	Posted - 2007.01.11 13:18:00 - [9] Agony PVP school in operation
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.11 13:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Gharthak 1: Run away from a fair fight. 2: Run away from a fight that is numerically in their odds 3: Dock for hours on end afraid that my little drake and hyperion are going to get them (this is like 2 on 6 odds keep in mind). This actually sounds like perfect preparation for how most people fight in 0.0. ===This is a sig=== "no matter where you are or what you're doing, you know that down in the southeast, LV and RA are trying to stab each other in the face." -- Cadiz ==============
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 14:19:00 - [11] They are not 100% useless but they do suck quite bad... They probably need to get their faculty member to learn a few things and then start teaching others tbh... In syndicate at least ... they are less dangerous than the Serpentis tbh Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.11 14:24:00 - [12] Please train in Fade more, AGONY. The residents need training! Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.11 14:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Crellion They are not 100% useless but they do suck quite bad... They probably need to get their faculty member to learn a few things and then start teaching others tbh... In syndicate at least ... they are less dangerous than the Serpentis tbh Actual quote from agony guy: "How do you rat up here? These serpentis rats are really tough!" Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer
WhiteBull Minmatar EDEN IN EVE	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:01:00 - [14] I can only speak from my own experience. The PVP course they offered was fantastic! We engaged all kinds of targets, single ships, multiple ships, BS's, etc. etc. We camped a gate in Syndicate for a while, and eventually the locals sent a gang of about 15 to break up our camp. We warped to a safe spot when they came (we really had no chance), and part of the course was teaching us how to use safe spots while we were being pursued. We never left the system while they were hunting us. Eventually the gang gave up and we then moved on to other targets. Best 6 hours of EVE I have had really. A lot of fun and I learned a lot.
Cupdeez Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 11/01/2007 12:27:46 Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi Originally by: Plutoinum Well, two battle-cruisers can tank two sentries pretty well for a short time even the nano-hurricane that I flew and a sec. hit doesn't really hurt, if you have 5.0 already ... Guess lesson learned: Don't attack someone in 0.0 and think the fun is over in low sec, just because the opponent is no pirate. Such a shame that your alliance now actively endorses piracy and flies alongside such as allies....guess it's not just GW you guys lost...but a certain amount of your moral values as well! This is my view...and although it may be shared by others...I do not speak on their behalf..nor on the behalf of my corp,my alliance or any other entity. Lol. Our policy has always been NBSI in 0.0 and fire-at-will at hostiles in low sec. There we are even less aggressive than alliances, who allow piracy. And for sure, if some neutral attacks someone of us, he counts as hostile. Doesn't even require setting him from neutral to red first. And if you talk about INFOD, they are ex-V and yes they are pirates. So what ? We also fly with LV and some of them are known pirates. Can't say that I care much. They follow their policy with neutrals in low sec and we ours. There are more important things in EVE than to debate about how to treat neutrals in low sec, when it comes to alliance politics. edit: This was also just my personal view of course ! Good that I'm not a diplomat. Hrhr. And no hard feelings to Agony Unleashed of course. It's just that a pvp situation doesn't automatically end, because you have jumped to empire and there are sentries. I don't agree with -v- very often but I agree with them on this one. Them agony guys just gank people once the numbers get close they just run to empire again. I would have done the samething as -v-. Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo Davip
Kaar Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:32:00 - [16] They will go for a fight when leading a course...but individual members tend to shy away from pvp. Good guys most of them, wish they would sell my their wolfpack script :< --- ---
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:47:00 - [17] Since when did shooting a hostile in lowsec become "piracy". It's no more piracy than shooting them in 0.0 is. According to your logic I can go out to 0.0 and ransom pods and not be a pirate just because it's 0.0 and lawless. Pirates are defined by their actions, not their location. Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Damn what happens to all those people whose self esteem doesnt depend on eve then? Oh right, I'm asking in the wrong place
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:47:00 - [18] Since when did shooting a hostile in lowsec become "piracy". It's no more piracy than shooting them in 0.0 is. According to your logic I can go out to 0.0 and ransom pods and not be a pirate just because it's 0.0 and lawless. Pirates are defined by their actions, not their location. Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Damn what happens to all those people whose self esteem doesnt depend on eve then? Oh right, I'm asking in the wrong place
Domalais Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:02:00 - [19] Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi Such a shame that your alliance now actively endorses piracy and flies alongside such as allies....guess it's not just GW you guys lost...but a certain amount of your moral values as well! If it's a known hostile who was attacking alliance members in your claimed space, how can it possibly be piracy? Does all combat in low sec space automatically fall under the stamp of piracy?
Christina Bamar Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:18:00 - [20] <3 1) Even odds != fair fight, especially considering most of our members are much newer than the people we're fighting 2) Odds != advantage. 3 frigs don't have the advantage over 1 BS. 3) I'd love to kill your drake, thanks for offering. Also, as far as criticizing our PVP Uni... we offer a better service for pvp training than any other entity in EVE. It's easy to criticize and poke fun, but really we provide a gateway into PvP that no one else has been able to match. We've had hundreds of satisfied customers, and opened up the best side of EVE to many who wouldn't have seen it otherwise. It's easy to make fun of us for being "noobies" or whatever, but the bottom line is that we're actually doing something to encourage people to go into pvp, something that I think is a pretty damn good thing. So in conclusion.. 1) If you can do better then do it. 2) We fight differently, not worse. 3) We do more with 3 month old characters than many do with 3 year olds 4) Don't knock sniping destroyers till you've tried one :)
Alexandre Martin Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:32:00 - [21] Boom and Zoom boys, Boom and Zoom. Stupidity is never rewarded but patience always is... seriously I could go on with these one liners all day.
Yoshi Toranaga Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:07:00 - [22] Originally by: Zimi Vlasic Actual quote from agony guy: "How do you rat up here? These serpentis rats are really tough!" I remember that night. We took a small gang of 2 intys and 8 rifters to Fade to find some targets. After killing a few of you, you all left system. You then jumped in 2! smartbombing carriers, killing your own cynosaural pilot and none of us, while we were killing your interdictor 40km's away. System grew kinda quiet after that and we decided to go ratting in your space, while you camped the neighboring system with 30 odd pilots .. ever heard of sarcasm?
Littleluk The Ancient Order Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:21:00 - [23] They have allot of personal respect from me. They don't do the local smack. They engage on their terms and are succesful on their terms. They have caught quite a few IMP targets. Their leaders fly respectable ships and effectively control the actions of their very new pilots. I know I never want to lead a fleet of 30 "how do I target another player pilots" with only 1-2 other experienced pilots. If they are engaged by a superior force or baited into a trap they respond as a team well and frequently outrun experienced 0.0 pilots to safety, no mean feat with a gang that is flying together for the first time. Sure their students are realtively lower skilled and flying lower tiered ships but that doesn't dampen their enthusaism for the fight. Anything that leads to a love of pvp being born in new pilots is a "good thing" in my book no matter what alliance or corp that pilot goes off to join in the future. There isn't an instructor in the universe that is going to be able to take a brand new gang of brand new pilots in brand new frigates and fight equal odds vs assault frigates, cruisers and battleships. I certainly won't insult them for not doing something I wouldn't do myself. Keep doing what you do Agony. It is good for your students and good for the game. (it might even be good for IMP to be reminded to check local once in awhile) This is a personal statement not a post as the Imperium Diplomat. Everyone needs a little luk.
Nova Z Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Yoshi Toranaga Originally by: Zimi Vlasic Actual quote from agony guy: "How do you rat up here? These serpentis rats are really tough!" I remember that night. We took a small gang of 2 intys and 8 rifters to Fade to find some targets. After killing a few of you, you all left system. You then jumped in 2! smartbombing carriers, killing your own cynosaural pilot and none of us, while we were killing your interdictor 40km's away. System grew kinda quiet after that and we decided to go ratting in your space, while you camped the neighboring system with 30 odd pilots .. ever heard of sarcasm? Yoshi - I could kiss you sometimes .
Stein Voorhees Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Gharthak Edited by: Gharthak on 11/01/2007 09:47:35 Well for months I've seen advertisements from Agony Unleased for their various courses for their.. PVP University.. This past week and a half or so I've came across quite a handfull of AGONY unleased pilots pirating random members. My observations so far is that they: 1: Run away from a fair fight. 2: Run away from a fight that is numerically in their odds 3: Dock for hours on end afraid that my little drake and hyperion are going to get them (this is like 2 on 6 odds keep in mind). So this mighty university is supposed to teach people how to PVP. Once I figured I might even send a bunch of my newbs their way as I recruit them.. Let them get some training... But my question is.. Did they forget to teach their own? I'm not exactly the jedi master of PVP myself but I have to say.. these guys need some training themselves.. :) They were trying to snipe ships at a stargate 75 km away in destroyers. :) Oh for those in AGONY - this was when I was between into different corps.. different standings. Gharthak, With respect matey, you might want to go off and check with your bosses. If memory serves me right, we have been NAP'd with NEC since the start of 2007. It might explain the behaviour you have seen. We tend not to fire on Blues although if you know of anyone in AU that has, please let Rells know. All the best, Stein.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:15:00 - [26] Edited by: Rells on 11/01/2007 20:18:51 Originally by: Gharthak Edited by: Gharthak on 11/01/2007 09:47:35 Well for months I've seen advertisements from Agony Unleased for their various courses for their.. PVP University.. This past week and a half or so I've came across quite a handfull of AGONY unleased pilots pirating random members. My observations so far is that they: 1: Run away from a fair fight. 2: Run away from a fight that is numerically in their odds 3: Dock for hours on end afraid that my little drake and hyperion are going to get them (this is like 2 on 6 odds keep in mind). Hmm quite interesting. I wonder if Marauder (executor of NEC alliance) is privy to this post. Ill be sure to link it to him. We have been NAPed with NEC for several weeks now and that MIGHT indicate why AGONY pilots dont fire on you. The smack talk here is disturbing from someone supposed to be our friend. If NEC wants us to engage you, a cancellation of the NAP can be arranged. Originally by: Gharthak Edited by: Gharthak on 11/01/2007 09:47:35 So this mighty university is supposed to teach people how to PVP. Once I figured I might even send a bunch of my newbs their way as I recruit them.. Let them get some training... But my question is.. Did they forget to teach their own? I'm not exactly the jedi master of PVP myself but I have to say.. these guys need some training themselves.. :) They were trying to snipe ships at a stargate 75 km away in destroyers. :) Oh for those in AGONY - this was when I was between into different corps.. different standings. On saturday a fleet of the destroyers and harpys that you despise were rampaging EC-P8R sniping anything snipable on the gates. A total of four interdictors, 5 interceptors and god knows how many other ships and pods were quasi instapopped. So yes, we were trying ... and succeeding, as you heard from the D2 pilot above. Oh and point of Order. AGONY members are not students merely attending courses) but members of the corp. Our class students do not join AGONY. Finally to the Eve Animal Control pilot ... . Try looking up the word "gullible". In the space of three hours we killed an interdictor, raven, 2 battlecruisers, and miscelaneous other ships in return for losing 4 tech 1 fitted tech 1 frigates. Too funny. And BTW carriers with smart bombs is a really stupid way to try and catch a frig fleet. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Gharthak Gallente The 5 Amigo's LLC. New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:18:00 - [27] Stein, Check character corp history. Was in a different corp at the time of engagement. I wanted a change of atmosphere and ended up missing the old guys and went back to NEC. Brief change. Anyways. The whole intent of this post was not to start a smack fest on forums and maybe I should have made that clear. Its simply that the AGONY Unleashed pilots have shown to me bad judgements and bad tactics - example would be the solo brutix pilot who did have the guts to engage my Drake - and he didnt have a single piece of TII gear onboard and somehow thought he could win that fight? In other words. AGONY Unleashed wants to charge tens of millions of isk of pilots/corps to train them how to PVP and their own pilots excercise bad tactics and bad judgement. If your going to pirate - pirate right correctly. :) I cant see sending my newb pilots to their courses in light of this - and several months ago I had considered it but their abilities have proven to me that its a waste of iskies in the future.
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC.	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Gharthak Oh for those in AGONY - this was when I was between into different corps.. different standings. As he stated, this occured when he was not with NEC. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with any of the statements in this thread, but please don't take NEC to task over this, as he was not in NEC at that time. I also am not a diplomat, I'm just pointing this out for those that missed it. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
Kristyl Jade	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:27:00 - [29] I want to respond to this so badly... but I just keep coughing up smack. Anyway I feel that our killboard actually shows the opposite of what the OP is trying to say. - Run from a fair fight? = 1 of our Merlins vs an Interceptor - Run away from a fight that is numerically in their odds? = 1 of our Merlins vs an Assault frig and a T1 Frig? - Stay docked hours on end? Bro you do realize that alot of people just like to stay online doing stuff like running the corp / manufacturing / trading / etc. Often times a good percentage of the Agony Members docked are AFK. If we really thought you were a threat we would have killed you. Now our killboard shows contrary evidence to what your claiming. Sure we get in gangs and kill people. Im sure there are alot of people out there that wish we would all fly completely solo in expensive ships with out voice comms / tacticals / and not use our ship scanners... Theres also a lot of people that blob us right back and with bigger ships. I guess I just dont see the point of your post. also... Who are we pirating? Not you and not NEC? Your old corp? Anything that flys through pure blind is game. Players out in 0.0 should know the risks and what they are doing out there. If not, Let me cordially extend an invitation to one of our pvp classes. :-) It also seems if I may be so bold that the people that do have respect for us are those that have flown with us and those that have flown against us for any length of time. Everyone gets lucky. Everyone has a bad day. Even me. Even you. Whats really got my interest though is what we did to upset you so much? Id also like to point out that the screen shot of several agony members corpses only proves one thing... were not BoB and we do die.
Yoshi Toranaga Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:28:00 - [30] Originally by: Gharthak 1: Run away from a fair fight. 2: Run away from a fight that is numerically in their odds Originally by: Gharthak .. example would be the solo brutix pilot who did have the guts to engage my Drake - and he didnt have a single piece of TII gear onboard and somehow thought he could win that fight? I'm confused O?

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