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Need some war advice...about a greifer corp.

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evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:57:00 - [1] My corp is at war with a corp called Blood Sweat and Tears, They are a dedicated PVP corp, who war decs corps for ransom cash, or Protection money or disbandedment. Now while my war with them is ongoing, I come to ask how likely these corps will keep their word. From my personal experience , they technically do. Example: Promises Corp X withdraws the war for 10 isk, creates corp y and keep the war going. Kept their word in all technicality. All members in my corp agree we will not pay up the 500 million isk they are asking for. They went through the usual I am different from all the previous corps that attacked us, we honor our word, we can even show you pass contacts, etc etc. I have caught their members lie to me already once, and their ceo does not reinforce the image that he is honorable. He also seems to lack some control over his members. He said no smack talk, but his guys do such things still. How would a corp like this prove themselves, because while they have failed to live up to expectations on these small things, how could one possible trust them on the big thing? They feel we are a rich fat cow, worth milking, but the truth is we are not. This is a Leadership and Management corp, I spend my time training people, not making isk. ----------- Management and Leadership
Helen STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:59:00 - [2] Either hire mercs or the A-Team. Or fight them or not. Not much else you can do really.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:02:00 - [3] I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word. ----------- Management and Leadership
Irrilian Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:03:00 - [4] You might find this a useful read: Fight Back : Guide to Corporation Defence. Get organised, get voice coms, use cheaply outfitted frigs and cruisers etc, go heavy on the ew (they really wont like it and its a great equalizer) and start blowing up their expensive toys. They may briefly rally, but keep up the pressure and they'll probably quietly slink off. PIs and Forensic Accountants: adding risk vs reward for scams and thievery
Irrilian Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:05:00 - [5] Originally by: evistin I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word. If you mark yourself out as a sheep, be prepared to be shorn regularly. If you pay up then they will be back in some form or another eventually asking for more ISK. Even if its just an ex member who's joined some other corp and has told them about likely targets to shake down. PIs and Forensic Accountants: adding risk vs reward for scams and thievery
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Irrilian Originally by: evistin I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word. If you mark yourself out as a sheep, be prepared to be shorn regularly. If you pay up then they will be back in some form or another eventually asking for more ISK. Even if its just an ex member who's joined some other corp and has told them about likely targets to shake down. Irrilian is right. Even if you can trust them (maybe you can, I don't know, never heard of them before), word will get out you're an easy target if you pay.
Sonos SAGD Minmatar Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:14:00 - [7] well your options are 1. pay up 2. hide in the station until they get bored 3. fight 4. hire your own mercs 5. make some alts to move your stuff and find a new system
Dekiri Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:16:00 - [8] I would hire mercs if i was you, but then again i am a little biased=) --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:16:00 - [9] We are fighting, we are not weaklings, but we are not super pvpers either. I rather they blow up 500 million isk in equipement then pay them the 500 million isk. ----------- Management and Leadership
Irrilian Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Helen Either hire mercs or the A-Team. Ive often thought that something along those lines would be a great use of an alliance as a tool. They could keep an eye on whats going on and when some new/starter corp gets war dec'ed invite them temporarily into the "a-team" alliance to help them fight back against the aggressor. PIs and Forensic Accountants: adding risk vs reward for scams and thievery
Irrilian Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:20:00 - [11] Originally by: evistin We are fighting, we are not weaklings, but we are not super pvpers either. I rather they blow up 500 million isk in equipement then pay them the 500 million isk. Good for you! Good hunting. PIs and Forensic Accountants: adding risk vs reward for scams and thievery
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:23:00 - [12] Originally by: evistin We are fighting, we are not weaklings, but we are not super pvpers either. I rather they blow up 500 million isk in equipement then pay them the 500 million isk. Pride is expensive it seems. I know blood sweat and tears they are nice guys. Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -ISD Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:27:00 - [13] Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/01/2007 15:23:59 If you pay you have no guarantee that next week the next corp doesn't war decs you, no matter if this corp keeps their word. I wouldn't pay. If the only way to avoid destruction of your corp is to pay whenever some an pvp-experienced corp asks for money, then something it obviously wrong. That can't be the way to go. ______________ need new sig
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:49:00 - [14] id say laugh at their request. then do ur best to cause them, or at leasat one of their members, some serious financial losses. Alot of empire griefer corps seem to fly pretty expensive ships to do their griefing in. cause enough damage n theyll retract, specially if u do it in inferior T1 ships.
Archilies Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:50:00 - [15] join an alliance Recruitment Thread
Helganstandt Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:55:00 - [16] If you're wondering if there's a way to prove that they are trustworthy, there's no other way to find out than to pay them and see. So if you're willing to fork over the 500 mil to them, do the following: Have a convo with the CEO, and fraps/take screenshots with the deal you make. Make sure you mention that you never want to be war dec'd by them again in any form, or something concrete like that. If they don't lift the war dec, name and shame here, and I'm sure someone will do a charity war dec for you to get them off your back. Well, you can hope anyway. My guess is that they will probably leave you alone. It won't do good for their reputation to go back on a deal like that, and you'll give them the confidence of thinking that others will follow suit. All that being said, unless you're losing tons of isk by keeping this war going, it's probably not worth 500 mil. Just have your guys spread out to different regions for a few weeks, they'll get bored and move on.
Shyalud Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:27:00 - [17] If you pay a ransom to get out of the war, expect a lot more war declarations in the future.... Originally by: Jules The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:28:00 - [18] Edited by: kublai on 19/01/2007 16:25:02 Originally by: evistin Edited by: evistin on 19/01/2007 15:15:07 Edited by: evistin on 19/01/2007 15:14:44 My corp is at war with a corp called Blood Sweat and Tears, They are a dedicated PVP corp, who war decs corps for ransom cash, or Protection money or disbandedment. Now while my war with them is ongoing, I come to ask how likely these corps will keep their word. From my personal experience , they technically do. Example: Promises Corp X withdraws the war for 10 isk, creates corp y and keep the war going. Kept their word in all technicality. All members in my corp agree we will not pay up the 500 million isk they are asking for. They went through the usual I am different from all the previous corps that attacked us, we honor our word, we can even show you pass contacts, etc etc. I have caught their members lie to me already once, and their ceo does not reinforce the image that he is honorable. He also seems to lack some control over his members. He said no smack talk, but his guys do such things still. How do I know this Corp can be trusted? As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you. 1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK
Gungankllr Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:36:00 - [19] Join a large alliance and watch the wardec vanish in a week or so.
Rina Shanu Computer-Aided General Exploitation	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:37:00 - [20] Originally by: evistin I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word. Hi, They can not.... Don't fall for them, there are multiple options for you, like involving one or all of the following: mercs, pvp freaks, friends, simpathizers, business partners. Joining an alliance... Fighting them back and making them stay docked. >> JOIN CAGE <<
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:42:00 - [21] When you pay once, word will get out that you are an easy target and other corps like them will war-dec you, even if this corporation keeps their word and doesnt war-dec you ever again. On the other hand, for 500m you can hire a small mercenary outfit, pay the Privateers for 250 weeks of war against them, or get a lot of Kestrels blown up while taking down their tech-2 ships. The only way for you to prevent this kind of stuff in the future is by establishing yourself as a hard target - ready to fight back or ready to call in mercs. Furthermore, if your opponent has a POS as the previous poster suggests, you dont need to tear that down at all. Stick to destroying their ships over and over again. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
Nhi'Khuna	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:43:00 - [22] Evistin, They've wardecced us too and we intend to fight. Send me an evemail (or get your CEO to reply to mine) and we can organize a two pronged offensive. We've got the muscle if you've got the numbers. We have extensive experience in pvp ops and I'd be happy to provide your pilots with training if need be. Nhi'khuna http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4507/nhikhunasigcopyix3.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize to keep it within the 400*120 pixel and 24,000 byte limit. E-mail us with any questions at [email protected]. -ReverendM
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar When you pay once, word will get out that you are an easy target and other corps like them will war-dec you, even if this corporation keeps their word and doesnt war-dec you ever again. On the other hand, for 500m you can hire a small mercenary outfit, pay the Privateers for 250 weeks of war against them, or get a lot of Kestrels blown up while taking down their tech-2 ships. The only way for you to prevent this kind of stuff in the future is by establishing yourself as a hard target - ready to fight back or ready to call in mercs. Furthermore, if your opponent has a POS as the previous poster suggests, you dont need to tear that down at all. Stick to destroying their ships over and over again. I suggested they pirate in capital class ships, not that they had pos's.
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:55:00 - [24] I beleive "Blood Sweat and Tears" is treys Azagoths corp.In which case i'd say his word is probably good. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:55:00 - [25] Originally by: kublai (...) I suggested they pirate in capital class ships, not that they had pos's. If that is the case it only is dangerous if the OP has a POS in a low-sec or 0.0 system. They cant move their capital ships to high sec. If you have a POS in low-sec, either reinforce it with lots of hardeners and weapons and be ready with NOS battleships to defend, or just unanchor it until the war is over. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:55:00 - [26] Move to 00, problem solved. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: kublai (...) I suggested they pirate in capital class ships, not that they had pos's. If that is the case it only is dangerous if the OP has a POS in a low-sec or 0.0 system. They cant move their capital ships to high sec. If you have a POS in low-sec, either reinforce it with lots of hardeners and weapons and be ready with NOS battleships to defend, or just unanchor it until the war is over. Which is why I was reffering to how it would make it slightly more difficult to hire merc's to steamroll them. It means the merc's can't camp them into a station with shiny carriers like merc's love to do, as those shiny carriers will go poof. They won't need capitals to beat up some newbies in high sec.
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:08:00 - [28] Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 19/01/2007 17:04:32 Evistin, its a game...hold your ground and fight back, belive me you will get a hang of it in the end. Better use your isk for yourselves..than feed some leechers ;) I once had a sig...it deleted
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:10:00 - [29] Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 19/01/2007 17:07:08 High-sec merc contracts are fairly cheap, and thats all that is needed to bolster the high-sec PvP capability of the corp. Its not about going out into low-sec or 0.0 to take out pirate capitals, its about letting them come into high-sec in their expensive ships and tearing them apart. The point I made still stands, though: If you pay once, you will get more payment requests, either from the same people or from others - which makes it irrelevant if the current opponents are trustworthy or not. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
Admentus Cor'vion Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 19/01/2007 17:07:08 High-sec merc contracts are fairly cheap, and thats all that is needed to bolster the high-sec PvP capability of the corp. Its not about going out into low-sec or 0.0 to take out pirate capitals, its about letting them come into high-sec in their expensive ships and tearing them apart. The point I made still stands, though: If you pay once, you will get more payment requests, either from the same people or from others - which makes it irrelevant if the current opponents are trustworthy or not. QTF. Roll over once and your assumed to roll over time and again. While financially it maybe immediately adventageous to say "ok, here here's your money please let us mine in peace", eventually every entity in this game save for noob corpers need to step up and fight at one point or another. Looks like you've got friends who are in the same boat that are looking for a fight. Here's a tip. Maximize kills to losses. Take that other guy up on his PVP training if you guys have NFI what to do. Listen, Follow orders, get on the same teamspeak, and ffs have fun. Empire wars can be a nice game of cat and mouse on small scale. _______________________________________________ Black Avatar - One of the oldest corps in Eve. "The end and the beginning."
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:35:00 - [31] Don't pay. Period. Look at it this way.. You were minding your own business when someone came along and figured they could put a little pressure on you and you'd give them a little cash. This is thuggery. So when anyone ransoms, whether at the pilot or corp/alliance level, why would you give them exactly what they want PLUS the power to then dictate how you operate in the future. Like others have said, don't give yourself the rep of paying to make trouble go away.. eve has a LOT more people like this than these guys. Besides, there are much more productive uses of 500mil ISK. Heck, move somewhere else temporarily until the war is over, buy a few BSs with the money and rat somewhere in 0.0. At least then you could make some money and then who cares if you lose the ships, it would have been money gone if you had paid anyway. The options are limitless.. but paying someone who thinks they deserve your money for nothing should NEVER be an option. People argue when their personal views are at odds, whereas a debate is a more formal method of analyzing the angles of an issue.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:40:00 - [32] Edited by: Mattduk on 19/01/2007 17:37:21 Originally by: evistin We are fighting, we are not weaklings, but we are not super pvpers either. I rather they blow up 500 million isk in equipement then pay them the 500 million isk. That's the spirit. :) In my time in this game, my corp has been held to randsom a few times. We have never paid, and will never pay. If you pay them now, you are stamping a big sign on your foreheads for other such corps to do the same thing to you. Take a stand now, one way or another, but do not let them get what they are after, whether that is kills, or isk. Deprive them of their fun and I guarantee they will be looking for new peeps to grief soon enough. Good luck with it. Kind regards Mattduk
dailyhazard Caldari Unauthorised.	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:42:00 - [33] Mail me ingame. Im gonna be bored for a few weeks, so i will come help you out and give you advise and stuff. This is one of my nice moments, use it wisely ;)
Nai Ling Diligent Souls	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:43:00 - [34] Originally by: evistin All members in my corp agree we will not pay up the 500 million isk they are asking for. I have caught their members lie to me already once, and their ceo does not reinforce the image that he is honorable. He also seems to lack some control over his members. He said no smack talk, but his guys do such things still. hehe.. That reminds me of a war I had when I first joined EVE a little over a year ago. The corp war dec'd both corporations I was in (merger), and both corps refused to pay the 500M ISK ransom to stop the war. Partly, because we were having fun, and partly because they didn't work hard enough to earn that ransom. Eventually, we adopted the idea that we had to **** them off so much that they wouldn't pay for the war dec anymore. Each Corp had it's own way of doing this. One scattered. Each member to a different region/constellation. The further away from the headquarters, the better. If they can't find you, they can't kill you, which makes it a boring play session for them. (hehe) The other corp would just dock when they entered local. Not out of fear, but for the same reasons. No kills = boring. You need to figure out what you want to do. If you want to have fun and fight, do just that. If you just want the war dec to be over, find out a way to make the war dec stop by whatever means possible. Merc Contracts, pacifism, scatter the corp, etc. Make it more of a hassle for them to fight you. If they get no enjoyment out of you, they will go away. They may come back later, but that's just a risk you take in EVE. _____________________________________________
Helganstandt Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:46:00 - [35] I personally think it's a load of bull** that word will get out that you're easy targets if you pay. The truth of the matter is, these guys saw you on a mining op or got blown up by a POS you had, could have been any reason to be honest, and they were just looking for some easy ganks. The 500 mil is just to give the war a sort of legitimacy, and to see if you're actually willing to not fight for that much. There seems to be some unfounded paranoia that every griefer corp out there will suddenly hone in on your ability to pay a single ransom attempt and start war dec'ing you left and right, and I seriously doubt that's the case. Griefer corps aren't in it for the money, they're in it for the ganks, and to have some fun. 500 mil doesn't split very well even among 5 people for a week's work. Let alone 10 or 20. You take away that fun, they'll move on to better targets. My suggestion is that unless you're capable of hiring a proper mercenary outfit, or fending them off yourselves, you guys should just spread out across different regions for a few weeks.** But it looks like you guys already made up your mind. You said you guys would rather lose the money than give it to them, so why exactly are you bothering to ask us? Seems a little pointless doesn't it? It wouldn't matter if they're trustworthy or not if you had no intention of paying them in the first place.
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 19/01/2007 17:07:08 High-sec merc contracts are fairly cheap, and thats all that is needed to bolster the high-sec PvP capability of the corp. Its not about going out into low-sec or 0.0 to take out pirate capitals, its about letting them come into high-sec in their expensive ships and tearing them apart. The point I made still stands, though: If you pay once, you will get more payment requests, either from the same people or from others - which makes it irrelevant if the current opponents are trustworthy or not. You want the merc's to bodyguard in high sec, or attack the agressing corp? The agressing corp will most likely have it's hq in low sec. Now, these aren't your average "LOOK MOMMY I HAZ RAVEN" players, you'll need good merc's to take them out, and i'm willing to bet they'll kill a merc or ten aswell. If you find merc's willing to do this cheap, then they are either idiots or VERY kind
Nigel Carruthers Black Watch Regiment	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:22:00 - [37] Originally by: Helganstandt I personally think it's a load of bull** that word will get out that you're easy targets if you pay. The truth of the matter is, these guys saw you on a mining op or got blown up by a POS you had, could have been any reason to be honest, and they were just looking for some easy ganks. The 500 mil is just to give the war a sort of legitimacy, and to see if you're actually willing to not fight for that much. There seems to be some unfounded paranoia that every griefer corp out there will suddenly hone in on your ability to pay a single ransom attempt and start war dec'ing you left and right, and I seriously doubt that's the case. Griefer corps aren't in it for the money, they're in it for the ganks, and to have some fun. 500 mil doesn't split very well even among 5 people for a week's work. Let alone 10 or 20. You take away that fun, they'll move on to better targets. My suggestion is that unless you're capable of hiring a proper mercenary outfit, or fending them off yourselves, you guys should just spread out across different regions for a few weeks.** But it looks like you guys already made up your mind. You said you guys would rather lose the money than give it to them, so why exactly are you bothering to ask us? Seems a little pointless doesn't it? It wouldn't matter if they're trustworthy or not if you had no intention of paying them in the first place. nullnullnull By all Means for GOD sake Don't ask advice here. You are better Off asking in the INGAME help channel than asking advice here. These Forum trolls self esteem is so shot they have to belittle people constantly.(watch the smack I get for calliung the kettle black. The difference is. In 2 years of Eve this is probably my 3rd post total) Eve the game is a great game. The Forums are not a reflection of the game THANK GOD!!!! If you need a hand INGAME against someone ransoming you. My Tiny corp will gladly help. Evemail me ingame we are not the best PVP'ers but we do know our EW and have some decent pilots.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Nigel Carruthers Originally by: Helganstandt I personally think it's a load of bull** that word will get out that you're easy targets if you pay. The truth of the matter is, these guys saw you on a mining op or got blown up by a POS you had, could have been any reason to be honest, and they were just looking for some easy ganks. The 500 mil is just to give the war a sort of legitimacy, and to see if you're actually willing to not fight for that much. There seems to be some unfounded paranoia that every griefer corp out there will suddenly hone in on your ability to pay a single ransom attempt and start war dec'ing you left and right, and I seriously doubt that's the case. Griefer corps aren't in it for the money, they're in it for the ganks, and to have some fun. 500 mil doesn't split very well even among 5 people for a week's work. Let alone 10 or 20. You take away that fun, they'll move on to better targets. My suggestion is that unless you're capable of hiring a proper mercenary outfit, or fending them off yourselves, you guys should just spread out across different regions for a few weeks. But it looks like you guys already made up your mind. You said you guys would rather lose the money than give it to them, so why exactly are you bothering to ask us? Seems a little pointless doesn't it? It wouldn't matter if they're trustworthy or not if you had no intention of paying them in the first place. nullnullnull By all Means for GOD sake Don't ask advice here. You are better Off asking in the INGAME help channel than asking advice here. These Forum trolls self esteem is so shot they have to belittle people constantly.(watch the smack I get for calliung the kettle black. The difference is. In 2 years of Eve this is probably my 3rd post total) Eve the game is a great game. The Forums are not a reflection of the game THANK GOD!!!! If you need a hand INGAME against someone ransoming you. My Tiny corp will gladly help. Evemail me ingame we are not the best PVP'ers but we do know our EW and have some decent pilots. Actually, this is a good tactic. When the corp is tightly packed into a few systems it's like shooting fish in a barrel and theres always that expectation of another** target around the corner to keep you interested. When the target corp spreads out it becomes a chore to run a locator and then move 15 jumps to find the person in a station afk etc etc. Dont discount the amount of time you can waste doing this and the effect it can have on the aggressing corp. It won't be long before they look for more "fun" targets. So Mrnullnullnull, you see, it can be a good tactic, perhaps not in all circumstances but it's an option. I read the advice quoted and thought it was about the best I saw in the thread. Accurate, objective and short. You highlighting it and trashing it proves you have little experience. Finally, what the hell is with the word "griefer"? It's as annoying as "toon".
Helganstandt Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Nigel Carruthers nullnullnull By all Means for GOD sake Don't ask advice here. You are better Off asking in the INGAME help channel than asking advice here. These Forum trolls self esteem is so shot they have to belittle people constantly.(watch the smack I get for calliung the kettle black. The difference is. In 2 years of Eve this is probably my 3rd post total) Eve the game is a great game. The Forums are not a reflection of the game THANK GOD!!!! If you need a hand INGAME against someone ransoming you. My Tiny corp will gladly help. Evemail me ingame we are not the best PVP'ers but we do know our EW and have some decent pilots. Which part of my post don't you agree with? All of it? I would at least like to know why you don't think it has any relevance or offers any helpful solutions. If you're trying to convince the OP otherwise, maybe offer an alternative suggestion other than "The forums suck, and none of these guys know what they're talking about." I'm just talking from experience because I used to be the corp that war dec'd targets for fun, and asked for ransoms. And that was the way people got rid of our war decs.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:48:00 - [40] Originally by: dailyhazard Mail me ingame. Im gonna be bored for a few weeks, so i will come help you out and give you advise and stuff. This is one of my nice moments, use it wisely ;) damn u know i woulda been down for that ****. griefing griefers4tw CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
superboms	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:34:00 - [41] Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 19/01/2007 16:25:02 As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you. 1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK And that being said, TunDraGon is a piracy corp afaik... She's prolly just coughting up some bull**** to help out her pirate friends...
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:27:00 - [42] Originally by: superboms Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 19/01/2007 16:25:02 As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you. 1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK And that being said, TunDraGon is a piracy corp afaik... She's prolly just coughting up some bull**** to help out her pirate friends... TunDraGon is not a pirate corporation. But hey, feel free to go after them, they'll love more targets ;)
Shzanzia Love and Rockets	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:29:00 - [43] Pay nothing, give nothing, offer nothing. How you respond to this threat will shape your corp for the rest of its life. Respond with force, and win or lose your corp earns respect and honor. End this war with your guns ablaze and your honor intact...... not on your knees paying ransom and groveling like a dog. You owe it to your corp to show them their leadership has backbone.
Cheng Kung Amarr Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:31:00 - [44] We will help you out for 600 mil.
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:51:00 - [45] Don't trust them. You have no reason to and, to be blunt, you should learn how to handle such things on your own. There are a lot of corps that do this kind of thing and so it can just keep happening over and over. If you really don't want to worry about defending yourself and just want it over with, your money would be better spent hiring a mercenary corp to deal with them. ----------------------------------------------------
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:01:00 - [46] Edited by: evistin on 20/01/2007 08:59:24 It seems Blood Sweat and Tears the corp who war dec my corp are now using logoffski tactics, according to one of my members. Fair enough I loose ships and parts in a war, but would you really respect an enemy that uses logoffski tactic? They claim system crash, so after several hrs of play, several battles the ONLY battle you were losing was the same time you crashed? A little hard for me to believe. ----------- Management and Leadership
gfldex Gallente Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:45:00 - [47] Edited by: gfldex on 20/01/2007 09:45:14 Originally by: evistin It seems Blood Sweat and Tears the corp who war dec my corp are now using logoffski tactics, according to one of my members. Please describe exactly what happened in detail. If you dont a lot ppl will see your post as blunt propaganda.
Darth Maule Pitch Black Incorporated Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:47:00 - [48] Edited by: Darth Maule on 20/01/2007 10:45:24 Either fight , stay docked. or hire mercs. Paying is not a option.(unless you are paying mercs), If you have to pay you might as well get something for your money.
gfldex Gallente Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Darth Maule Edited by: Darth Maule on 20/01/2007 10:45:01 Either fight , stay docked. or hire mercs. Paying is not a option.(unless you are paying mercs), If you have to pay you might as well get something for your money. Mercs can take the money and do nothing. It may not even be their fault. RL can be tricky.
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:49:00 - [50] Edited by: Del369 on 20/01/2007 12:52:37 Pay nothing, consider it vital on the job training, if you spend 500mil on yourselves fighting the war consider it money well spent. Also don't the Privateers take on High sec war contracts ? iirc all you have to do is pay 10mil isk per week to cover the cost of the war dec (if they're a Corp that is and not an Alliance) and wasn't there a post in one of these Alliance Forums a few weeks ago from an ex AXE or ASCN Corp that was offering free empire war decs ? edit and as if by magic http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=445094 and look up the ASCN/AXE link and have them dec them to, make their* lives a misery Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
IntegralHellsing Gallente The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:37:00 - [51] don't ever give in to them. 500m for a war dec clearance? pfff. i'd rather let them blow my ships and not get a single decent loot. just go out in mass gang and pwn their t2 gear ships one by one. there's nothing like swarm of cruisers and frigates that can scare an opponent. in ISK wise, they will lose much more for every t2 gear ship you destroy. 20 cruisers against 1 t2 gear battleship/bc/t2 ships. in ISK wise you win. don't ever give up. let them face the wrath ------------------------------
War Machine Murini Ice Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:40:00 - [52] Spend the 500million ISK they are demanding on Frigates. Fight back. You won't regret it.
Wwhisper Gallente Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.01.20 14:56:00 - [53] Originally by: evistin I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word. You can't. The fact is, pirates by their very nature are untrustworty. There may be elements within the corp that fancy themselves honorable pirates, but in the long run pirates or untameable. You can talk to one, but he can't keep a leash on the others. They will do what they want, with or without permission. I have been in this game nearly two year, and have yet to meet a group of pirates that are trustworty. Some questions for you. What system is this in and what is the name of the pirate group? ------------------------------- Tactical Smack-Talker I've taken my pills today, have you?
Sean Dillon Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.20 15:08:00 - [54] For 500 million you can hire 3 cheap merc corps for a week. Its a damn better investment then into giving it as protection money.
Tarphon Caldari Realm of Majestic Empire	Posted - 2007.01.20 15:20:00 - [55] Originally by: kublai As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you. 1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK LMAO no wait... ROFLMFAO Griefer corp, if they were that uber they would attack someone other than noob corps. __________________________________ ISD broke my sig :(
Nastratu Minmatar Serefon Creatin	Posted - 2007.01.20 16:36:00 - [56] If they are an established corp, not populated by alts, they will care about their reputation. And if they do not honour this agreement, you can always post about it here on the forums. It will make a lot of pirates and other ransoming pvp corps look down on them because they will just make ransoming business more difficult for everyone else. I do not think that after that they'll go and tell everyone about how they extracted money from you. Because once again that is bad for their business. Other corps migth hear about it and not pay up when they in turn are being ransomed. So it would make little sense for them to spread any information of the kind. To the contrary, they better keep quiet about about any such transaction. My advice is, of course, to not pay. And not because their trustworthiness is an issue. It makes sense to pay a reasonable ransom to a pirate. In this case, the pirate will kill you with 100% guarantee if you do not pay. Any attempts to fight back have already failed if you are at the stage of being ransomed. They have your ship/pod scrambled and you cannot log off either. Same is not true with a war. You can fight back, you can possibly win, you can keep docked, you can quit playing for some time, you can wear them out with boredom, you can scatter or even disband, you can hire some mercs on their case, you can enter an alliance (in which case they will start paying 50 mil a week for the war) or even create one of your own (requires about 1 bil ISK though). Many different possibilities here. If you decide to engage them on your own, my advice would be to get voice communication and plan your battles in advance. Lack of organization costs in ships and increases their efficiency. Also visit their killboard and see what they fly and how they outfit their ships.
Ffaide Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.01.20 16:50:00 - [57] I have to agree with those that have posted here. The question is not wether or not this corporation is going to be trustworthy, but wether or not you are going to be the kind of corporation that folds to that kind of pressure or not. Yes, pride is expensive, but in many cases its worth every penny. reinvesting your cash into a merc corp may be a viable alternative. You could also take your mates over to the Test Server, ships are cheap and plentiful, and hone your PVP skills. This is NOT that same as real PVP, but its a method to hammer out some of the basics. Still, organization, team work and coordination are powerful weapons against any foe. So, I would say fight. Learn from your losses, and take this for the opportunity that it is; to become capable PVPers yourself. As someone said earlier, mark yourself as a sheep, and you better be prepared to be shorn often <fantastic statement, by the way>. Luck in battle
Helganstandt Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:24:00 - [58] I certainly hope you guys are winning your engagements. If you're losing, the war dec is never going to go away until you're members either start winning all the time, or stop fighting and your aggressors get bored. Several corps I used to be at war with ended up basically disbanding because their leadership was unwilling to accept the facts that their members were incapable of PVPing at our level, and eventually decided to form other corps. Oh, we war dec'd those corps too.
Leikeze Mrotserif Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:18:00 - [59] Woe is me for I am such a bad person. The suggestion for payment was withdrawn last night and replaced with a good old fashioned 'fight and thats it'. In regards to what i saw about logoffski.. as the story goes my corpmate crashed while engaging one of your buddies. No harm done tho as when he logged on the killmail for the guy was sitting right there. Offline killing 4tw? Flame away ladies... flame away.. -------
Spaja Saist Gallente Void Engineers	Posted - 2007.01.20 22:32:00 - [60] Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 19/01/2007 16:25:02 Originally by: evistin Edited by: evistin on 19/01/2007 15:15:07 Edited by: evistin on 19/01/2007 15:14:44 My corp is at war with a corp called Blood Sweat and Tears, They are a dedicated PVP corp, who war decs corps for ransom cash, or Protection money or disbandedment. Now while my war with them is ongoing, I come to ask how likely these corps will keep their word. From my personal experience , they technically do. Example: Promises Corp X withdraws the war for 10 isk, creates corp y and keep the war going. Kept their word in all technicality. All members in my corp agree we will not pay up the 500 million isk they are asking for. They went through the usual I am different from all the previous corps that attacked us, we honor our word, we can even show you pass contacts, etc etc. I have caught their members lie to me already once, and their ceo does not reinforce the image that he is honorable. He also seems to lack some control over his members. He said no smack talk, but his guys do such things still. How do I know this Corp can be trusted? As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you. 1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK Don't listen to this *******. He's obviously in league with them. Fight back or disband your corp. See how the griefers like that tactic.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.20 23:01:00 - [61] Yes they have withdrawn the ransom demand, and the logoffski was a false alarm, my guy misunderstood the tactic. ----------- Management and Leadership
Phoenix Mulderdart Caldari Starlancers	Posted - 2007.01.21 03:39:00 - [62] Originally by: evistin oh we are fighting still. Excellent, keep them on their toes. If you would like any assistance please pop into the "Bar - Lancers" channel. We would be only too happy to help.
Akov Stohs Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 11:19:00 - [63] Honestly...You want them to go away and never come back? http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/main/contracts_form.asp You'd be suprised what 500mil might buy you
minkow chi	Posted - 2007.01.21 15:27:00 - [64] I would pay if you cant fight. Not everyone in the game is a crook. Some people still hold their word. It might work out for you in the future if you need help. You never know. But from the sounds of it your not going to be able to survive it on your own!!
Argors Caldari Starlancers	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:24:00 - [65] Well lets see , lets play this out alittle and see where it leads. Lets say you do pay them the 500mil and they do stop. ok we have heard from alot of what should happen , ect , they won't tell if thier smart ( not likly IMO), then you well be sheep for ever more in anyones eyes that knows , and many well know , no dought about that. Pirates Love to brag about the things they have done. Next you do pay them the 500mil and they don't unhold thier word, are you realy going to come back and scream to the the 4 winds how this pirate corp ripped you off and are still killing you. You lost your 500mil, you lost your pride , you are losing the War and your going to tell everyone so that the pirate corp looks bad ? hmmmm don't think that plays the way pirates would like you to think it does. Can you imagen the posts you would see if you did that, i bet that would make you feel alot better about paying ? And i realy do fale to see how a pirate telling me that they think it SHOULD be ok is supose to make everything shiny , its just silly to think payment well solve your troubles. It could be the kiss of death. "For those who understand no explanation is needed, ...For those who don't none will do". - Jerry Lewis
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:34:00 - [66] Edited by: kublai on 21/01/2007 18:30:43 Originally by: Spaja Saist Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 19/01/2007 16:25:02 Originally by: evistin Edited by: evistin on 19/01/2007 15:15:07 Edited by: evistin on 19/01/2007 15:14:44 My corp is at war with a corp called Blood Sweat and Tears, They are a dedicated PVP corp, who war decs corps for ransom cash, or Protection money or disbandedment. Now while my war with them is ongoing, I come to ask how likely these corps will keep their word. From my personal experience , they technically do. Example: Promises Corp X withdraws the war for 10 isk, creates corp y and keep the war going. Kept their word in all technicality. All members in my corp agree we will not pay up the 500 million isk they are asking for. They went through the usual I am different from all the previous corps that attacked us, we honor our word, we can even show you pass contacts, etc etc. I have caught their members lie to me already once, and their ceo does not reinforce the image that he is honorable. He also seems to lack some control over his members. He said no smack talk, but his guys do such things still. How do I know this Corp can be trusted? As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you. 1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK Don't listen to this *******. He's obviously in league with them. Fight back or disband your corp. See how the griefers like that tactic. Damn, secret's out, TunDraGon is just an alt corp, Kublai is an alt.
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.21 23:03:00 - [67] Dont trust them. This is a game and nothing stops them from rip you off as many times as you fall into it. Just try to kill them or die trying. ---
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:02:00 - [68] Originally by: Spaja Saist Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: evistin We are fighting, we are not weaklings, but we are not super pvpers either. I rather they blow up 500 million isk in equipement then pay them the 500 million isk. Pride is expensive it seems. I know blood sweat and tears they are nice guys. They're not nice guys if they are picking on industrial corps. They are nice guys when I'm not anywhere close to them. I should've rephrased that Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
dawood koplanski The Devil's Rejects	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:11:00 - [69] multiverse??? i thought you were into the war deccing weaker targets yourself
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.22 01:02:00 - [70] Considering I have run the corp from the start, we have yet to war dec any other corp. ----------- Management and Leadership
Irrilian Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.22 01:08:00 - [71] Originally by: dawood koplanski multiverse??? i thought you were into the war deccing weaker targets yourself I think you're confusing them with Multiversal Enterprises Inc, or some such. PIs and Forensic Accountants: adding risk vs reward for scams and thievery
Tarphon Caldari Realm of Majestic Empire	Posted - 2007.01.22 07:18:00 - [72] evistin, contact me in game, I have some mates that have been bored off their ass and would love some more shooty shooty Ill get you in touch with them __________________________________ ISD broke my sig :(
oil University of Caille	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:18:00 - [73] dont pay them or the next wardeclaration is just waiting to happen if you show yourself as a milking cow. make their job as difficult as possible. think before undocking add all their known members to the adressbook, dont act stupid adjust overview to only show wartargets with color no panic autotargeting to zero make all corpomembers adjust acording to theese points and you will lose a lot less. if you have oportunity, try to fight with t1 cruisers and cheaper ships. use clones without implants for those actions but fight with a plan.
Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:59:00 - [74] Originally by: Wwhisper Originally by: evistin I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word. You can't. The fact is, pirates by their very nature are untrustworty. There may be elements within the corp that fancy themselves honorable pirates, but in the long run pirates or untameable. You can talk to one, but he can't keep a leash on the others. They will do what they want, with or without permission. I have been in this game nearly two year, and have yet to meet a group of pirates that are trustworty. Then you really need to look more closely. Est for example all keep our word, both as a corp and as individuals - and I can think of several other 'pirate' corps that also have honourable reputations. Zarch AlDain
Argors Caldari Starlancers	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:16:00 - [75] Edited by: Argors on 22/01/2007 13:15:25 Edited by: Argors on 22/01/2007 13:13:32 Originally by: Zarch AlDain Originally by: Wwhisper Originally by: evistin I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word. You can't. The fact is, pirates by their very nature are untrustworty. There may be elements within the corp that fancy themselves honorable pirates, but in the long run pirates or untameable. You can talk to one, but he can't keep a leash on the others. They will do what they want, with or without permission. I have been in this game nearly two year, and have yet to meet a group of pirates that are trustworty. Then you really need to look more closely. Est for example all keep our word, both as a corp and as individuals - and I can think of several other 'pirate' corps that also have honourable reputations. That makes me feel so much better about paying, A pirate telling me that they keep thier word. I gess i need to make a list i can check in the 10 secs i have to pay eh , make sure your a pirate i CAN trust before i pay. LOL Edit = post did funny things the first try "For those who understand no explanation is needed, ...For those who don't none will do". - Jerry Lewis
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 15:00:00 - [76] Just a word about how well words spread over bullies that a soft target's been found. About a year ago, an interesting thing happened to a bunch of friends. I had been asked to join a freighter escort from empire to close 0.0, was at around 9am local time for me, and I convinced my friends to postpone it until 10 (I'm a late sleeper) ... (I was a merc at that time) Logged in at 9:50 to learn that : - They had finally decided to reschedule it at 9am - They had taken the direct AP route and fallen into an ambush - They had their freighter ransomed, the ransom was worth paying to save the freighter, so they paid and left the system. I managed to reroute them on their way back to avoid known pirate nests, and we thought the incident over. surprisingly, a week later, they got wardecced by 2, then 3 empire thug corpos, asking for ransoms. Took a few weeks and involved 2 merc corps to get rid of the trouble. coincidence? Originally by: Radeberger If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts
RuleoftheBone Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.22 15:45:00 - [77] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 22/01/2007 15:43:50 Originally by: evistin Edited by: evistin on 20/01/2007 23:57:50 Yes they have withdrawn the ransom demand, and the logoffski was a false alarm, my guy misunderstood the tactic. oh we are fighting still. Evistin--salute and keep fighting (and having fun doing so!). It is ever so refreshing to see this sort of class versus the usual whining...please keep us posted on how you fare p.s. Regardless of the outcome-perhaps the folks who attacked you would see your corp's spirit and offer a bit of training in return for the pew-pwe action?
Volar Kang Gallente General Miners	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:00:00 - [78] I do respect your decision to fight them and as long as the game is still fun thats alright. If you start taking heavy losses or these jokers start taking the fun out of the game then do what we did when they war-dec'ed us. We just changed the CEO to an alt and everyone dropped from the corp. We all still mined together, still hung out in chat together and still posted on our website forums. It didnt effect us other than no corp isk for missions for a little bit. We told BST what we did and they dropped the war-dec a day later. They dont want to pay millions a week for nothing. Then we all just rejoined the corp when it was safe. If they take the fun out of the game for you then do the same to them and make them pay to war-dec empty corps.
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:10:00 - [79] Dont pay any corp anything, if you do this you might aswell disband your corp now because you've failed. If you can't fight or hire mercs, either ignore them, move to 0.0 or join an alliance. Alternatively, find yourself another griefer corp to fight for you, a few will do it for free if you can provide them with real targets ------------ All hail! Leader of the pod brigade..
Fornacis Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:29:00 - [80] Never give in, if you do....you're dead already. Either use the 500mil to hire mercs, or if you have friends in another corp get them to wardec and help in the fight. The gentleman in this thread that has offered help in tactics would be a good resource. You might even find a handful of guys to join your corp and help with the fighting. In one of my first corps we had someone do this, and you would be amazed in some of the things that we learned. Keep you head high m8!
Helganstandt Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:59:00 - [81] So are you guys winning your engagements? Don't get me wrong, I am rooting for you guys, but you should reconsider your strategy if you're not winning at least some of your engagements. You're risking demoralizing your corporation which could lead to disbandment, and you'd be better off not fighting at all if that's the case.
Argors Caldari Starlancers	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:42:00 - [82] it is great that you are fighting back aye , and thier are points were other options come in , you don't want to just feed them the 500mill in your ships, you want them to screw off. Ransom is never one of those option , why would you when thier are so many other ways to wreak thier party. My Point of view on the whole ransom thing is simple realy ,from when i was a noob i learned that eve is full of bad podders and good podders and no matter where or when you undock you better be ready to kiss it goodbye, If your flying a Faction ship and get caught then you got caught, you should already be ready for the lose, nothing can not be killed.This being sayed implants the whole deal your just going to paid. Well i gess some well the ones that think they were safe and could fly free and clear and have the isk asked fast enough and are lucky after they pay.No one likes to lose Bills in ships and mods and implants i never tryed to say they did , but when it comes down to it you should be ready for it. In that case some well always pay your ransom and some well never pay your ransom ever no matter what you say and how you ask. Posts here to talk about how to ransom , when to ransom , why you ransom , how to Ransom better are fine , just don't ask the question if you don't want to hear a answer that doesn't meet up with Pirate thinking. Why ask Here. This is not personal , its not smack , its not RL , Its the way Arg sees it and i would think alot of others, that can and well speak for themself. Its seams clear ingame and on the Forums Pirates don't like podders that stand up to them, unless you win thier respect by fighting back. Should it realy be any deffrent, if you what to change my mind give me a real reason to i just don't see that happening tho , i plan to win but i'am ready to die every time i undock. not to just Pirates mined you , how many times have you lost a shiny ship to other EVE hazards, even when(if) you get those back it could take weeks on end. If you play not ready to ever lose you make a shiny target. "For those who understand no explanation is needed, ...For those who don't none will do". - Jerry Lewis
Kalil d'Maelstromo The Establishment	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:02:00 - [83] Originally by: Zarch AlDain Originally by: Wwhisper Originally by: evistin I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word. You can't. The fact is, pirates by their very nature are untrustworty. There may be elements within the corp that fancy themselves honorable pirates, but in the long run pirates or untameable. You can talk to one, but he can't keep a leash on the others. They will do what they want, with or without permission. I have been in this game nearly two year, and have yet to meet a group of pirates that are trustworty. Then you really need to look more closely. Est for example all keep our word, both as a corp and as individuals - and I can think of several other 'pirate' corps that also have honourable reputations. Methinks people are confusing pirates and empire gankers mate. Empire gankers are mainly in it for the fun whereas pirates run along lots of motivations. Also I wish we didnt have such an honour creed somtimes :P Originally by: Thor Xian I use a named WCS called "Situational Awareness".
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.01.22 21:31:00 - [84] Imho, paying is not an option. As many said before, you'll look like a soft target and you'll wear a big "dec me" sign if you pay the ransom. Fighting is fun on the other hand, and you get to fight when they pay for the war going. Use this as a chance to train some PvP skills. Even if they outclass and outtech you you'll be surprised how much damage an organized group of T1 pilots can inflict on T2 gang. You'll need a good commander on TS, gang discipline and a fire concentration. Also, have as much intel as possible, there's never too much intel. You should know what's going on 2-3 systems away from where you are based or where you are fighting. If you are in high sec, you don't even need cov ops for intel. Use alts in n00b corps for that. Although cov ops are nice for tactical maneuvering. Target expensive ships 1-st, so, that even if you lose a battle (and you will most likely lose battles) you will take 1 or 2 expensive ships with you. Just be sure that your gang can finish them off before you're all killed. Command bc's for example have very tough tanks, but those are tactical decisions for your gang commander to take. GL in your war btw...

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