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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:11:00 -
[1]
There seems to be a stalemate on the market. Rigs are sitting a a frction above the build price, and still not selling.
Perhaps the salvagers need to drop their sell prices? But then they can't justify the time the salvaging takes.
Perhaps the manufacturers need to cut their profit more? But what's the point in building for zero profit?
Perhaps the component drop rate needs to be increased? Or the build requirements decreased? Either way, something has to be done otherwise rigs are about as useful to the GENERAL population as invention is.
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Ediz Daxx
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:11:00 -
[2]
Supply and demand.... supply and.. demand..
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Nir
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:15:00 -
[3]
Yes its a supply vs. demand thing. Maybe its just me but I havn't had a need to replace any rigs yet. People who live in 0.0 probably build their own, too.
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Ashurn
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:21:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ashurn on 20/01/2007 17:18:53 I think the main problem is that most most players aren't really pulling in the major ISK, unlike some forum posters whom think that we might be. I've been on level 3 missions for a month or two, earning a pittance.
I've joined EVE just right before all the nerfs and the coming of the Revelations. Seeing how the amount of loot got cut down as well as bounties getting halved, the income most mission runners (which I think might be the majority of rig buyers) just can't afford to buy a rig at the price of 1/2 to 2/3 of a Dominix.
Salvaging ain't easy, just as you said. The salvagers aren't going to lower the price of components due to the work and time needed to actually salvage the wrecks.
In my opinion, there should be couple of changes and additions.
1.) Add in better tractor beams. There's already a medium and a large tractor beam in the database. Why not seed it?
2.) Instead of having the skill Salvaging work on chances, why not make them increase yield as well as giving you access to bigger/higher tech wrecks.
3.) Make the Salvager Modules work 100%, having more of them means you can salavge more wrecks at the same time.
4.) Give us a dedicated Salvager ship, maybe by the ORE corporation.
Just some random rabble by me. Bored at work.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:28:00 -
[5]
Sell them for under 10m and I'll buy.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ashurn 4.) Give us a dedicated Salvager ship, maybe by the ORE corporation.
Er hell no on that. You crazy? Needing more and more accounts to be able to be competitive is what's gonna bring Eve down eventualy.
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:33:00 -
[7]
3M for the worst T1 rigs, 5M for the good ones and 10M for the Most Awesome Rigs. Everything beyond that is a waste.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun There seems to be a stalemate on the market. Rigs are sitting a a frction above the build price, and still not selling.
Perhaps the salvagers need to drop their sell prices? But then they can't justify the time the salvaging takes.
If the value of your time according to the market is greater than what you think your time is worth, you should stop salvaging (economics term is shutdown). --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:49:00 -
[9]
I'll preceed this by stating I am likely in the minority on this one.
I would prefer to see rigs stay expensive and impractical for most in a PVP ship. Putting in resist rigs that harden (3 damage types) better than the best deadspace EANM shouldn't come cheap, likewise an additional 15% to your MWD Shouldn't be something every ceptor pilot can afford to lose. 10% more powergrid with no drawback other than cost? That's no small benefit, and should come at a premium.
Rigs work similar to implants, if you've got the isk and are willing to take your chances, implants give you a decisive advantage over your opponent. If everyone were running around with pirate sets and 5% hardwirings, well, that would suck.
Just seems to me it kills the fun if everyone is implanted and rigged out the ass
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Ashurn
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:52:00 -
[10]
Hey, at least you can't manufacture implants. But oh well, I would probably salvage myself and build the rigs for my own use. 25m for a single Core Defence Field Purger I just ain't worth the ISK for me at the moment.
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Bellatrix VanFeldt
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:02:00 -
[11]
You got it right that it's stalemated. Corps operating out of 0.0 make their own rigs and empire mission-runners bought their rigs, improved their survivability, and don't die so much. Personally I'd love to fit rigs on frigates and cruisers but don't see the point on anything less than a battleship for the cost.
What needs to happen is a 5x decrease in parts cost for T1 rigs. This will bring the cost down to 5-10M each without overstressing salvager cargo space. For T2 rigs the drop rates need to be bumped up immensely to get the price down to where T1 rigs are now.
The prices are just not competitive with existing modules that perform the same function.
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Rhene
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:04:00 -
[12]
Yesterday I put one on the market with my alt and I'm not sure I agree that the rigs are sitting at a price just above the parts cost. I was able to identify three rigs that although are dropping in price slowly, are currently making close to 50% material profit (9mil in material costs, 18mil sell price).
Even with that level of profit, the time it took for me to get the parts is probably worth more than the 9mil in possible profit from the sale. In the time it took for me to pull the rig parts I could have run another mission.
As I see it there are a variety of problems with rigs that affect the current market situation (T1 Rigs Only Here):
1.) For the variety of rigs out there the parts necessary to build them aren't dropping in enough quantities. With as many rig parts as there are, there needs to me a larger variety dropping from salvage.
2.) Not enough of the NPC targets are itemized to drop rig parts. From a mission standpoint where you see multiple factions, rats, drones etc., there are whole groups that don't appear to drop rig parts at all.
3.) The drawbacks on the rigs probably needs more work and are stifling more widespread use of rigs. I can agree with CCP's approach, where the drawbacks are big to moderate usage so any changes that need to be made are more of an unnerf than a nerf.
Thats my quick take on the situation after dabbling a little bit with T1 rigs.
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The Slayer
Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:05:00 -
[13]
I cant justify putting rigs on my ships, I have a horrible habit of flinging domis into huge gatecamps and seeing how many I can take down before I die, I would NOT do that with 500mil of rigs fitted, and I cant afford to lose that much isk.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun There seems to be a stalemate on the market. Rigs are sitting a a frction above the build price, and still not selling.
Perhaps the salvagers need to drop their sell prices? But then they can't justify the time the salvaging takes.
Perhaps the manufacturers need to cut their profit more? But what's the point in building for zero profit?
Perhaps the component drop rate needs to be increased? Or the build requirements decreased? Either way, something has to be done otherwise rigs are about as useful to the GENERAL population as invention is.
Salvaging itself needs to change. It still takes way too much time.
[ 2007.01.20 15:24:59 ] (notify) Your salvaging attempt failed this time. [ 2007.01.20 15:25:07 ] (notify) Your salvaging attempt failed this time. [ 2007.01.20 15:25:07 ] (notify) Your salvaging attempt failed this time. [ 2007.01.20 15:25:09 ] (notify) Your salvaging attempt failed this time. [ 2007.01.20 15:25:17 ] (notify) Your salvaging attempt failed this time. [ 2007.01.20 15:25:17 ] (notify) Your salvaging attempt failed this time. [ 2007.01.20 15:25:19 ] (notify) Your salvaging attempt failed this time. [ 2007.01.20 15:25:24 ] (notify) Your salvaging attempt failed this time. [ 2007.01.20 15:25:27 ] (notify) You successfully salvage from the Wreck. Unfortunately there was nothing to be salvaged.
I have to keep rolling the dice trying to get a salvage to work, then when it finally does work "successfully" I'm told there was nothing to be salvaged... grr
Just don't care for that design. It seems... unfun. Anyway, I think it could really stand some more tweeking and hopefully in some way that could also bring the price of salvage material down. ------------------- ... [OK] ...
zOMG! |
Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Fear's dev blog
Since I joined the team, I was given the task of fixing salvaging. Salvaging as a feature was not broken as such, but there are aspects of it that needed some attention and tuning. One, which you are undoubtedly aware of, is that certain NPCs were not dropping salvage. No matter how much you tried, you always got the nice message ôYour salvaging attempt has been successful, however there was nothing to salvageö. Having experienced this myself I do understand this frustration.
This is something that needed to be fixed, but it's not an easy task. There were about 500 entities not dropping salvage, but in order to make them drop, they needed to be categorized according to size, race and so forth.
Amongst other things that have been changed are player ships. They will now drop more salvage than they have been, and in more variety based on their faction. Damaged Artificial Neural Networks were also added to some NPCs as they were only being dropped in minimum amount in player ships.
The drops from NPC factions were also tweaked a bit, moved around, added to some, frequency increased and/or decreased and so forth, so balance would be held between the factions.
The work on this has been finished, and only awaits testing by the QA department.
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Nastratu
Minmatar Serefon Creatin
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:15:00 -
[16]
Yeah rigs right now cost as much as implants. I keep all the implants that cost as much as most rigs do on a separate clone that I never pvp with. I just don't want to lose that much money in one shot. I also do not make all that much money to afford to lose additional hundred million with every ship that I lose. It amounts to enough with modules, so no thank you, I'd rather keep my costs down than have to play the game even more each week to earn that kind of ISK.
right now I think rig components are overpriced. My friend who is a total newbie (started this game just a week ago) went out salvaging for a couple of hours in high sec belts. He managed to pull off 8 million from the sale of the components. When I started playing this game and had as many skills points as him, making 8 million took much, much longer than that.
A lot of people I know just built their own rigs. They set them up on their missioning ships, of course, not their pvp ships as they are pricey to lose for majority of EVE population.
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Mirasta
Caldari Aggressive Tendencies
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:16:00 -
[17]
Stop buying the components, then the compnent prices will fall, then the rig prices will fall...
Of couse, You are now reading my sig.
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Badhands
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:16:00 -
[18]
Pfft. I can gather enough parts for a rig in a week, and quicker if i have a friend or two around to swap parts with. THAT'S why your rigs aren't selling. It isn't worth it as a profession, at the moment, in my opinion. Why would i spend 50m on a rig, when i can just salvage the wrecks from my ratting and build it myself?
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2007.01.20 18:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Badhands Pfft. I can gather enough parts for a rig in a week, and quicker if i have a friend or two around to swap parts with. THAT'S why your rigs aren't selling. It isn't worth it as a profession, at the moment, in my opinion. Why would i spend 50m on a rig, when i can just salvage the wrecks from my ratting and build it myself?
it's the fact that it takes you 1 WEEK to get the parts for 1 rig that is the promblem. You can build a battleship in a day (getting mins etc)
Drop Rates still need to be greatly increased.
That being said, i've started to put rigs on to some of my PvP ships. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Twin blade
Minmatar The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2007.01.20 19:47:00 -
[20]
The problem is the Skill its so easy to train every one has it.
All most every one in my corp can the skill to 3-4 and collect's there own part's and i think its the same in most corps so people trade and make there own so few sell. !
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.20 20:03:00 -
[21]
Why don't you grind missions and make your own rigs? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Ravenal
The Fated
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Posted - 2007.01.20 20:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun There seems to be a stalemate on the market. Rigs are sitting a a frction above the build price, and still not selling.
Perhaps the salvagers need to drop their sell prices? But then they can't justify the time the salvaging takes.
Perhaps the manufacturers need to cut their profit more? But what's the point in building for zero profit?
Perhaps the component drop rate needs to be increased? Or the build requirements decreased? Either way, something has to be done otherwise rigs are about as useful to the GENERAL population as invention is.
rigs have no build price - they have a time price equal to the time it takes to get the salvaged parts required to make them.
this time price can be described as player supply build price. If the part price is too steep for people to buy the rigs themselves can never be but too expensive either. Thus people salvage components themselves or simply ignore rigs until the market stabilizes. You know, people have gotten by fine without rigs for almost four years now, why would they need to add rigs to their fittings in a hurry before market stabilization?
patience is a virtue... enjoy . |
000Hunter000
Gallente Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.20 20:25:00 -
[23]
well it's very simple, the more people salvage and build rigs the cheaper they will become, so go salvage and build rigs allready if u want them cheap.
For instance, i salvage when i feel like it, and i throw all the parts on a big pile, one of these days i will build me a few rigs, check market and sell them a little cheaper then the cheapest seller on market. Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
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Jarjar
exscape corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.20 21:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: The Slayer I cant justify putting rigs on my ships, I have a horrible habit of flinging domis into huge gatecamps and seeing how many I can take down before I die, I would NOT do that with 500mil of rigs fitted, and I cant afford to lose that much isk.
Use Tech 1 rigs, then. 500 mil of rigs? CCC rigs cost 36 mil each. Armor resistance rigs cost approx. 31-36 mil each. Shield resistance rigs cost less than 20M each.
Oh, and saying that rigs have no build cost is just stupid. Ships have no build cost either then, I take it, since you can mine the minerals?
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.20 21:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: doctorstupid2 I'll preceed this by stating I am likely in the minority on this one.
I would prefer to see rigs stay expensive and impractical for most in a PVP ship. Putting in resist rigs that harden (3 damage types) better than the best deadspace EANM shouldn't come cheap, likewise an additional 15% to your MWD Shouldn't be something every ceptor pilot can afford to lose. 10% more powergrid with no drawback other than cost? That's no small benefit, and should come at a premium.
Rigs work similar to implants, if you've got the isk and are willing to take your chances, implants give you a decisive advantage over your opponent. If everyone were running around with pirate sets and 5% hardwirings, well, that would suck.
Just seems to me it kills the fun if everyone is implanted and rigged out the ass
I echo this sentiment.
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Jarjar
exscape corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.20 21:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
Originally by: doctorstupid2 I'll preceed this by stating I am likely in the minority on this one.
I would prefer to see rigs stay expensive and impractical for most in a PVP ship. Putting in resist rigs that harden (3 damage types) better than the best deadspace EANM shouldn't come cheap, likewise an additional 15% to your MWD Shouldn't be something every ceptor pilot can afford to lose. 10% more powergrid with no drawback other than cost? That's no small benefit, and should come at a premium.
Rigs work similar to implants, if you've got the isk and are willing to take your chances, implants give you a decisive advantage over your opponent. If everyone were running around with pirate sets and 5% hardwirings, well, that would suck.
Just seems to me it kills the fun if everyone is implanted and rigged out the ass
I echo this sentiment.
... and I agree completely too.
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Aaron Min
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Posted - 2007.01.20 21:56:00 -
[27]
well, it really depends on where you are, prices are going down though since drop rates have gone up. I suspect rigs will become reasonable eventually. I would be interested in providing rigs at lower then normal prices to people if I had enough buyers in a localized region. If you are interested in buying rigs eve mail me in game with the rig and how much you are willing to pay.
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smashsmash
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Posted - 2007.01.20 22:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
Originally by: doctorstupid2 I'll preceed this by stating I am likely in the minority on this one.
I would prefer to see rigs stay expensive and impractical for most in a PVP ship. Putting in resist rigs that harden (3 damage types) better than the best deadspace EANM shouldn't come cheap, likewise an additional 15% to your MWD Shouldn't be something every ceptor pilot can afford to lose. 10% more powergrid with no drawback other than cost? That's no small benefit, and should come at a premium.
Rigs work similar to implants, if you've got the isk and are willing to take your chances, implants give you a decisive advantage over your opponent. If everyone were running around with pirate sets and 5% hardwirings, well, that would suck.
Just seems to me it kills the fun if everyone is implanted and rigged out the ass
I echo this sentiment.
... and I agree completely too.
me2
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Mesacc
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.20 22:19:00 -
[29]
I think the biggest problem is the time it takes to salvage. If it takes me an hour to clean out a 3 room mission, then, after changing ships, it takes another hour and a half to clean up the wrecks. We need better tractor beams or somthing to speed it up a bit. It just isnt worth the time to me to gather them all up. If im running missions just to make isk, im better off leaving the wrecks and going on to the next mission.
My suggestion would be to cut down the amount of parts it takes to build rigs. then maybee prices would drop. Better tractor beams would be very helpful to.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2007.01.20 22:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun There seems to be a stalemate on the market. Rigs are sitting a a frction above the build price, and still not selling.
The build cost is being set by the manufacturers though. As long as they feel they can make a profit, they will keep the prices of components high.
As demand ebbs, they will be forced to drop their own sell prices and they will offer less for components, to stay in profit.
Originally by: Brutor Shaun Perhaps the salvagers need to drop their sell prices? But then they can't justify the time the salvaging takes.
Doesn't really work that way. The price of components will be set by manufacturer demand rather than willingness of people to work for less. There will always be someone willing to harvest components for a pittance.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
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