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Action Nerd
Petulant Luddite GmbH
3
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Posted - 2016.01.08 18:08:02 -
[61] - Quote
OP, you mentioned WoW
How many times did you LFG or LFR and want to kill the asshat hunter who would constantly lose you tanks by pulling too fast, or was just needing on every single thing in the dungeon?
How many times did you want to kill the annoying spambots and trolls?
Here, you can kill the whiners, the mostly afk miner bots, and the rude.
This is not my only reason for PvP, but it is certainly my favorite.
Kevin: Yes, why does there have to be evil?
Supreme Being: I think it has something to do with free will.
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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1044
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Posted - 2016.01.08 20:53:26 -
[62] - Quote
TBH i do not pvp, i do not like you got better stats so win. Sorry. But i enjoy other stuff in eve. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2199
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 20:56:37 -
[63] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Fa Xian wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Fa Xian wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel... The wealthy, veteran player helping you earn that first Navy Raven by running his Maelstrom for you must have really sucked. Erm? what? You say you had to work to get something. Then you lament how easy it was for another person. Could it be easy because you provided a lot of guidance and help? Who helped you get the Raven? No one? So is it a surprise it was harder then? Nonsense. I had help for my 1st Raven from the guy that introduced me to the game (in the same way I helped this other guy by loaning him a t1 battleship). I had to earn my 1st Navy Raven the same way the new guy earned his 1st Machariel, via PVE. You telling me you don't understand what I'm saying? If so, let me put it this way: The guy I helped spent 2 days in 2013 doing what it took me about 90 days to do in 2007. An 88 day difference. Part of why it took so long is that I whelped 3 Ravens as a noob (when losing a t1 BS meant something), unlike my new bro, I didn't have an entire logistics squad to broadcast to. Nowadays people are starting to roam in carriers out of boredom. It's easier to get a carrier hull today via pve than it was to get a t1 BS back in 2009/10. Under the right circumstances a FW mission blitzer can earn a carriers worth of LP in 4-7 hours using nothing more than 1 character in a disposable Stealth Bomber. The point here is that CCP has made it too easy to make isk (both personally and as an organization) in this game ,even right out of the gate, we train noobs to use Navy Vexors now to make as much with a couple weeks training as pro mission blitzers with deep game knowledge did in 2009. This makes many experiences less valuable than they once were. There is no reason beyond boredom or the need to stoke thine epeen to fight over anything if everything is provided so easily.
While I agree with a lot of this, there is another side to the coin as well. Making it easier to make ISK also theoretically gives people more time to PVP. In reality, people seem to spend the extra time grinding for PLEX or further pimping their PVE ships.
When I first came to 0.0 it took a lot of time and energy to earn enough ISK for PVP ships. This made losses more meaningful - each lost ship represented many hours of work destroyed. Destroying a ratting Battleship was a big deal - potentially you could really cripple a player for quite a while. Today, destroying a ratting Ishtar or Gila is nothing. Yet I am still happy when I catch one.
For me, Eve PVP has always been a lot like real hunting (one of my other hobbies). The hard part of hunting is not usually killing a deer - rifles and other modern weapons greatly simplify that and make it more humane - it's finding, tracking, and putting yourself in a position to take the shot. I enjoy Eve PVP because it is generally so easy to avoid a fight, so the real struggle is in surprising, baiting, or tricking your opponent into an fight. I rarely catch something I cannot kill, but I find a lot of things I cannot catch. Not all good PVP sessions end in a kill mail. The mental game of keeping track of the relative positions of friends and enemies in time and space, while hiding your strengths, and the maneuvering and fighting your own space ship, is the best PVP in any game I have played.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2199
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Posted - 2016.01.08 21:01:39 -
[64] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:TBH i do not pvp, i do not like you got better stats so win. Sorry. But i enjoy other stuff in eve.
There is far more to PVP than stats. Almost the only time stats really matter is in an arranged 1v1 (which I don't do because I don't like consensual PVP, it is a pointless waste of time, not a true contest of opposing wills). Even in an arranged 1v1, player tactics and maneuvers play a huge part (unless both players suck and it truly is a brawl between two mindless morons).
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
Chao3 Alliance
305
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Posted - 2016.01.08 21:25:40 -
[65] - Quote
PvP in Eve, for me, is a mix of being hunter and fisherman at the same time, knowing that there is always a bigger fish than you. It is the thrill of the hunt and the patience required to do a successful catch that does it for me.
Check Zosius blog if you want an example of the kind of thrill I am talking about.
Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XI
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
Freedom fighters, unite with Chao3
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Arya Ikahrus
28
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Posted - 2016.01.08 21:31:41 -
[66] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:At a trillion ISK you start doing titan Drive-bys, and there's still very real risk. Or small gang in AT ships worth up to 200 billion each :)
I'll bear it in mind for if I ever reach those lofty heights  . |
Commander Spurty
Moosearmy
I N G L O R I O U S
1609
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 21:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
Incentives to PVP:
- to take someone else's stuff
- to defend your stuff
- to purge non-blues from your space
- to protect and defend the miners (without whom, you would have to get all your stuff from two people. They hate you!)
Reasons to PVP are completely different set of answers:
- because that's fun for you
- to make money from looting their wrecks
- huge ego, need to waggle it around on killboards (knobs reason)
- to stop others from making money you wanted
Other than that, you should be making money because if you don't have 5 trillion ISK, you're not keeping up.
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Spurty
Moosearmy
I N G L O R I O U S
1609
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Posted - 2016.01.08 21:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Incentives to PVP:
- to take someone else's stuff
- to defend your stuff
- to purge non-blues from your space
- to protect and defend the miners (without whom, you would have to get all your stuff from two people. They hate you!)
Reasons to PVP are completely different set of answers:
- because that's fun for you
- to make money from looting their wrecks
- huge ego, need to waggle it around on killboards (knobs reason)
- to stop others from making money you wanted
Other than that, you should be making money because if you don't have 5 trillion ISK, you're not keeping up.
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Mercury Madullier
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.01.08 22:36:16 -
[69] - Quote
Angel T Hunter wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:TLDR version: I know that the best reason to PVP is because you like to PVP.
No.. Best reason is that something explodes on your screen
You beat me to it. This is exactly if for me. When I PvP I am usually guaranteed at least one su-splosion. AND as I get better at it I may get 2 or more at a time (cuz who is going to let something like the cost of a ship get in the way of one more splosion?). |
Hilti Enaka
State War Academy
Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2016.01.08 22:56:13 -
[70] - Quote
PVP in Eve iss being ruined by EWAR and Logi. These two things along with inflation have made players risk averse. If the devs did any research into gamification they would realise they have made decision that go against all of the well documented and well researched theory papers.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2200
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Posted - 2016.01.09 00:20:53 -
[71] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:PVP in Eve iss being ruined by EWAR and Logi. These two things along with inflation have made players risk averse. If the devs did any research into gamification they would realise they have made decision that go against all of the well documented and well researched theory papers.
Players have always been risk averse. E-war and Logistics do not make people risk averse - you are confusing the cure for risk adversity with the underlying condition.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Doc J
Assisted Homicide
18
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Posted - 2016.01.09 00:27:10 -
[72] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:PVP in Eve iss being ruined by EWAR and Logi. These two things along with inflation have made players risk averse. If the devs did any research into gamification they would realise they have made decision that go against all of the well documented and well researched theory papers.
Players have always been risk averse. E-war and Logistics do not make people risk averse - you are confusing the cure for risk adversity with the underlying condition.
Dude - I remember the days when people would engage because it was the need of the gamer to have fun. We would go toe to toe and it would be a battle of who more skill and awareness. Now these days as soon as logi and ewar are in intel the call is to stand down unless the opposing fleet can match them. Thats risk aversion right there caused by logi and ewar. |
Ria Nieyli
38113
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 00:34:32 -
[73] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:PVP in Eve iss being ruined by EWAR and Logi. These two things along with inflation have made players risk averse. If the devs did any research into gamification they would realise they have made decision that go against all of the well documented and well researched theory papers.
Players have always been risk averse. E-war and Logistics do not make people risk averse - you are confusing the cure for risk adversity with the underlying condition.
Making correct gameplay decisions is now "risk averse". Really? |
ll Kuray ll
The Scope
Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2016.01.09 01:23:59 -
[74] - Quote
It says a lot for the state of PVP when the most fun i've had in eve for a long time involved no logi, limited EWAR, and was an organised good old battleship fight. |
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 02:45:09 -
[75] - Quote
Fa Xian wrote:But it's all PVP to me.
Not to me, PvP always used to be combat PvP.
If market trading for instance was PvP then that would mean all MMOs and all their different servers, PvE, RP, RPPvP and PvP would all be either RPPvP or PvP, there would be no PvE or RP servers. |
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 02:58:23 -
[76] - Quote
I think PvP changed when killmails were introduced.
Ended up with players looking for easy kills just to increase the amount of kills they had, bragging rights.
So KMs kind of killed any meaningful reason in MMOs (except for arena style PvP), beyond collecting points and for the fun. Although you soon get bored if kills are too easy all the time, well I know I would. |
Ria Nieyli
38123
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 03:00:47 -
[77] - Quote
Implying that some people won't be looking for easy kill regardless of whether killmails exist or not. |
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 03:41:55 -
[78] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Implying that some people won't be looking for easy kill regardless of whether killmails exist or not.
There's always going to be those that want a decent fight regardless of kilmails.
But as it's an MMO and a lot opted for easy kills because of killmails, it did have an impact on open world PvP.
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Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
708
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Posted - 2016.01.09 11:45:18 -
[79] - Quote
When I PVP, I do it for the epic killmails. You know how serial killers like to keep mementos of their victims? Well, I do that with KMs, and wave my victorious T1 vs T3 KMs like a big swinging e-peen. |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
137
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 12:11:19 -
[80] - Quote
ISK is definitely an issue. For me I make no isk from space. Well I do sometimes but it's totally insignificant compared to what I make through my station characters doing trading. I have no need for a 'better system' with better anoms or better ores or better signatures, because I don't make isk from those resources.
And when you lose billions and it actually makes you lol instead of sad or angry or depressed or heart pounding like it used to when losing a ship was a big deal financially, then it certainly loses its meaning somewhat. I often engage with less than 50% chance of me winning, knowing full well that it's more likely I lose the ship than I survive, knowing full well that if I lost my ship it would be heavier loss than if I killed the other guy (this usually happens when you are flying T2/T3 vs. multiple T1 ships).
I don't care about KB efficiency at all and isk flows well enough from market activities that I don't need to go back to any activity I don't enjoy in order to cover for loss.
So it's all about pure hedonistic pleasure. Always fly what I feel like flying, always try new fits, even if it's stupid or whacky, engage against the odds at the end of the night because seriously, I just want to at least shoot something before I log off for the night. :p
So yeah, it's all for fun. |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2202
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Posted - 2016.01.09 13:40:26 -
[81] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:PVP in Eve iss being ruined by EWAR and Logi. These two things along with inflation have made players risk averse. If the devs did any research into gamification they would realise they have made decision that go against all of the well documented and well researched theory papers.
Players have always been risk averse. E-war and Logistics do not make people risk averse - you are confusing the cure for risk adversity with the underlying condition. Making correct gameplay decisions is now "risk averse". Really?
Yes, I do not view being risk averse as a bad thing. It just makes sense. In many ways, Eve is a game about managing risk.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
1308
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Posted - 2016.01.09 14:10:03 -
[82] - Quote
I think you have hit the nail on the head on one of the issues with Eve.
In 2011 the alliance I was in found a niche and took 4 poor systems and renting them from Atlas at a cheap price in Querious, we had a great time pretending to be renters next to other renter types and killed a lot of stuff. Then the alliance that took over Atlas space came all greedy on us and we left to do something else. At that point it was only possible to do such things under the cover of the major entities and the fun was kicking people who roamed into what was our prime time late AU TZ.
In 2009 say what you want about the POS sov system it created some epic fights such as the IRC / ED fight against RA.
The fun part about that period was that the Goons were the first to start camping us, but we made it too tough for them so they went after Krysis instead, they did send two Au TZ alliances to go after our sov space and we managed to win by getting help from the dying remnents of Morsus Mihi, great times and the most fun I have had in Eve, defending rubbish space that we wanted, the two Goon aligned alliances even begged us for an organised fight which I refused, our fight was to defend our space and not some bull honour fight.
However it also became apparant to me that with the ease of infiltration that a small entity was pretty much in an impossible situation, add to that cloaking camping and the total dominance of capital swarms there was no way that we could hold or take space, most of us just played at it around the periphery or joined groups that held space and walked when they got the attention of the more predatory groups who could just take the space without breaking sweat. It became too difficult that you would be the turkey in the turkey shoot. So why bother?
My last period in Eve was fun in that I was killing mission runners in Stain of the Soviet Union, but it was hollow, not fun and got samey.
If I could get back to what I saw in 2011 then I would however there are predatory alliances that will just come in with their spy accounts then hell camp you, I guess I am waiting for them to die, and while I see signs that the Goons are dying, PL is not sadly.
CCP have not given enough tools for small alliances to keep a toehold against those entities, while that is the case expect us not to bother, and I repeat myself from another thread, a structure that can be cloaked that enables a player to stay in his own space regardless of his enemy destroying his main structures, CCP nerfed logistics so much for us little guys that the thought of moving around blocks me before I even start, so the idea to safeguard assets does not quite get there either...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically a themepark for gankers
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
272
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Posted - 2016.01.09 16:23:02 -
[83] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:PVP in Eve iss being ruined by EWAR and Logi. These two things along with inflation have made players risk averse. If the devs did any research into gamification they would realise they have made decision that go against all of the well documented and well researched theory papers.
Clearly, EWAR and logi make combat more complicated than you would prefer it to be. Groups that effectively employ EWAR and/or logi can be harder to defeat than those that do not especially if you don't understand how EWAR and logi work or refuse to adapt your tactics accordingly.
EWAR and logi require different tactics and countermeasures, that's all.
In fact, EWAR and logi offer another aspect to PVP that encourages players who (either through lack of "skill" or lack of ISK) might feel they are unable to get into PVP to make a real contribution to fights.
I'd argue that EWAR and logi add to the motivation to and options for PVP.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
Chao3 Alliance
307
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Posted - 2016.01.09 20:23:07 -
[84] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:
Reasons to PVP are completely different set of answers:
...
- huge ego, need to waggle it around on killboards (knobs reason)
...
You do not do PvP when you are motivated that way.
You simply go into fleets with a decent FC, and boost up your killmails without much risks, and whore on kill mails whenever your PvPer wingmates catch something and call in for whoring.
In fact those with 95%+ killboards stats will 99,9% of the time only be whorers and fleet lemmings, not PvPers
PS : I forgot the KM doctors, i.e. characters that will set up the stage for a succesful PvP interactions with different alts, and bring in their shiny "PvPer" on the kill once the victory is sure. They are not very different than whorers, just a bit more sophisticated int he way they do it.
Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XI
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
Freedom fighters, unite with Chao3
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ll Kuray ll
The Scope
Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2016.01.10 02:16:08 -
[85] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
Clearly, EWAR and logi make combat more complicated than you would prefer it to be. Groups that effectively employ EWAR and/or logi can be harder to defeat than those that do not especially if you don't understand how EWAR and logi work or refuse to adapt your tactics accordingly.
Adaption basically means "bring more logi and ewar" YAWN.
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
EWAR and logi require different tactics and countermeasures, that's all.
In fact, EWAR and logi offer another aspect to PVP that encourages players who (either through lack of "skill" or lack of ISK) might feel they are unable to get into PVP to make a real contribution to fights.
I'd argue that EWAR and logi add to the motivation to and options for PVP.
I think you might be 1 in a 100 who thinks that.
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Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations
Get Off My Lawn
398
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Posted - 2016.01.10 02:49:33 -
[86] - Quote
For me Pvp is not my first love in eve.
However i pvp.
Why?
1. You are in my region, messing with my stuff.
2. I like your region and would like to mess with your stuff
Its all about stuff, defending my stuff or purloining yours.
Stuff. Mmmmmmmmm
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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ll Kuray ll
The Scope
Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2016.01.10 13:03:15 -
[87] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:PVP in Eve iss being ruined by EWAR and Logi. These two things along with inflation have made players risk averse. If the devs did any research into gamification they would realise they have made decision that go against all of the well documented and well researched theory papers.
Players have always been risk averse. E-war and Logistics do not make people risk averse - you are confusing the cure for risk adversity with the underlying condition. Making correct gameplay decisions is now "risk averse". Really? Yes, I do not view being risk averse as a bad thing. It just makes sense. In many ways, Eve is a game about managing risk.
Yeah you're right. So much risk in a important internet spaceship game. |
Ria Nieyli
38195
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 13:18:11 -
[88] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Yes, I do not view being risk averse as a bad thing. It just makes sense. In many ways, Eve is a game about managing risk.
I guess researching fits for your spaceship and trying to optimise it before you go out and fight is risk aversion too? |
Thorian Baalnorn
Perkone
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.01.11 06:42:23 -
[89] - Quote
I dont know what drives everyone else to pvp but my reason is simple: AI scripts are predictable. Even complex ones are predictable. Even ones that "learn" are predictable. Humans by their very nature are unpredictable.
* What ship are they using? Hows mine match up?
*How did they fit it?
* Are they using T1? T2? Faction? Deadspace?
* Do they have neuts? Tackle?
* Shield armor or hull tanked?
* Short or long range weaps?
* Active or passive tank?
* Whats their skill set? Can they barely fit in the ship or they all L5s for the whole fit?
* They have allies nearby?
* What might drop if i kill them?Maybe they have faction/deadspace?
* Can i beat them in my ship? Should i try?
* Are they going to run? Fly close in? Try to stay outside my range?
PVE is much like working in a factory, you do a certain task in a certain order and you get a certain reward. PVP is like a hobby, Its fun and unpredictable and sometimes you make( or kill in this case) something really awesome, but sometimes it just doesnt work out. But it doesnt matter because you still had fun doing it.
There will never be an NPC that is more challenging than a player because at the end of of the day the NPC can only do what it is told to do while a player may do anything and ive seen them do some pretty unpredictable things. And thats the fun of pvp. Its like chess...on megasteroids |
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
863
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 06:55:04 -
[90] - Quote
I am guy ho never kills just for fun.
I need reason to fight.
Lately it has been really hard to find real reason to fight, 0.0 has no reason, FW is dead, highsec wars pretty useless (suicide ganking more effective and that is not my style).
so 500+ days from last pvp encounter for me. |
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