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We should eliminate basic insurance.

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Troy Cintryx Strategic Operations Inc. 9	Posted - 2016.01.19 07:26:57 - [1] - Quote Hey EVE. Troy Cintryx here. We should eliminate basic insurance on all ships. That's the 40% payout you automatically get when your ship goes ka-boom. I always wondered why this was in place to begin with. If people want insurance, they can pay for it. There needs to be greater consequences for getting destroyed. Death barely has any consequences anymore, save for the loss of any implants installed, or boosters... boosted. Anyway, I digress. Insurance can be bought at most stations for a price. It's not like it would be difficult for capsuleers to get if we eliminated basic insurance. I just think it's time the Secure Commerce Commission stopped rewarding people for getting destroyed. Note: There was a previous topic from 2012 here - I'm not talking about getting rid of ALL insurance, just the basic automatic insurance that everyone gets for free. Building empires in EVE for over 11 years. Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2231	Posted - 2016.01.19 07:42:02 - [2] - Quote Getting rid of basic insurance is a good start. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Tabyll Altol Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two 148	Posted - 2016.01.19 07:57:23 - [3] - Quote +1 good idea
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2903	Posted - 2016.01.19 08:03:13 - [4] - Quote Great idea for rich people, terrible idea for poor people. 40% of the base hull price is not that significant a payout in the smaller ships relative to the module cost, so it hurts people who aren't sitting on multiple billions just fine. And I'm pretty sure most are not sitting on that kind of money.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 379	Posted - 2016.01.19 08:49:22 - [5] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Great idea for rich people, terrible idea for poor people. 40% of the base hull price is not that significant a payout in the smaller ships relative to the module cost, so it hurts people who aren't sitting on multiple billions just fine. And I'm pretty sure most are not sitting on that kind of money. Just to be devil's advocate here - you're not supposed to fly what you can't afford to lose. It's sometimes easier said than done, but this proposal wouldn't change that. If that 40% of base hull price, which as you pointed out is rather insignificant, is the make-or-break threshold for whether or not you undock to do something risky, then you'd be better served by not undocking. Yes, I realize that's tantamount to treason, to tell someone not to undock, but you shouldn't live that close to the line of being broke anyway. There are ways around that, of course. If you're going for a roam, ask your buddies about possible SRP in case the worst comes to pass. Playing EvE responsibly is remarkably close to playing "life" correctly. Secure and maintain your income first, watch your back, don't trust too easily or too much, and always have a fallback plan. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1033	Posted - 2016.01.19 09:35:54 - [6] - Quote Troy Cintryx wrote: ...There needs to be greater consequences for getting destroyed. Death barely has any consequences anymore, save for the loss of any implants installed, or boosters... boosted. Anyway, I digress..... Hi elitatwo here. I has a better idea, crush the economy, remove incursions and block all combat anomlies with a gate that doesn't allow capital ships at all. EVE just became a better place. You are welcome! Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1404	Posted - 2016.01.19 09:38:30 - [7] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Great idea for rich people, terrible idea for poor people. 40% of the base hull price is not that significant a payout in the smaller ships relative to the module cost, so it hurts people who aren't sitting on multiple billions just fine. And I'm pretty sure most are not sitting on that kind of money. Just to be devil's advocate here - you're not supposed to fly what you can't afford to lose. It's sometimes easier said than done, but this proposal wouldn't change that. If that 40% of base hull price, which as you pointed out is rather insignificant, is the make-or-break threshold for whether or not you undock to do something risky, then you'd be better served by not undocking. Yes, I realize that's tantamount to treason, to tell someone not to undock, but you shouldn't live that close to the line of being broke anyway. There are ways around that, of course. If you're going for a roam, ask your buddies about possible SRP in case the worst comes to pass. Playing EvE responsibly is remarkably close to playing "life" correctly. Secure and maintain your income first, watch your back, don't trust too easily or too much, and always have a fallback plan. Exactly this let's people fly more things as they become more affordable to lose Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1404	Posted - 2016.01.19 09:39:26 - [8] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Troy Cintryx wrote: ...There needs to be greater consequences for getting destroyed. Death barely has any consequences anymore, save for the loss of any implants installed, or boosters... boosted. Anyway, I digress..... Hi elitatwo here. I has a better idea, crush the economy, remove incursions and block all combat anomlies with a gate that doesn't allow capital ships at all. EVE just became a better place. You are welcome! Can we move l4s to low sec as well Citadel worm hole tax
Troy Cintryx Strategic Operations Inc. 10	Posted - 2016.01.19 10:45:49 - [9] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Playing EvE responsibly is remarkably close to playing "life" correctly. Secure and maintain your income first, watch your back, don't trust too easily or too much, and always have a fallback plan. This should be required reading for all new capsuleers. Not to mention, frigates, destroyers, and industry ships aren't hard to come by. Career agents give them out like candy. Including the Venture, which is very easy to make ISK with. Also, I'm not advocating for the elimination of insurance, just the basic free insurance that everyone gets. If you are afraid of losing your ship... then buy insurance! Building empires in EVE for over 11 years. Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2903	Posted - 2016.01.19 10:48:10 - [10] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Just to be devil's advocate here - you're not supposed to fly what you can't afford to lose. It's sometimes easier said than done, but this proposal wouldn't change that. If that 40% of base hull price, which as you pointed out is rather insignificant, is the make-or-break threshold for whether or not you undock to do something risky, then you'd be better served by not undocking. Yes, I realize that's tantamount to treason, to tell someone not to undock, but you shouldn't live that close to the line of being broke anyway. There are ways around that, of course. If you're going for a roam, ask your buddies about possible SRP in case the worst comes to pass. Playing EvE responsibly is remarkably close to playing "life" correctly. Secure and maintain your income first, watch your back, don't trust too easily or too much, and always have a fallback plan. Sure, but why move the gate? It's not going to affect the rich & powerful at all. Who it will affect are the poor who don't have 100's of hours a month to farm new things and don't live in a coalition with SRP. So why are we aiming at the poor. Austerity never works, all it does is increase the divide between the rich & poor.

Troy Cintryx Strategic Operations Inc. 10	Posted - 2016.01.19 10:55:17 - [11] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: So why are we aiming at the poor. Austerity never works, all it does is increase the divide between the rich & poor. I'm not aiming at the poor. I'm aiming at everyone. Stopping automatic insurance payments will slow the inflationary pressures being felt on the EVE market, which drives up the price of basically everything. New/poor players have many different opportunities to make ISK, from agents, to mining, to whatever else they want to do. Losing their ship will teach them a valuable lesson.... STOP GETTING DESTROYED. Or, alternatively... BUY INSURANCE. Building empires in EVE for over 11 years. Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2881	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:10:21 - [12] - Quote Troy Cintryx wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: So why are we aiming at the poor. Austerity never works, all it does is increase the divide between the rich & poor. I'm not aiming at the poor. I'm aiming at everyone. Stopping automatic insurance payments will slow the inflationary pressures being felt on the EVE market, which drives up the price of basically everything. New/poor players have many different opportunities to make ISK, from agents, to mining, to whatever else they want to do. Losing their ship will teach them a valuable lesson.... STOP GETTING DESTROYED. Or, alternatively... BUY INSURANCE. So, don't undock or spend less time playing the fun parts. Noted.
Troy Cintryx Strategic Operations Inc. 10	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:16:30 - [13] - Quote Rowells wrote: So, don't undock or spend less time playing the fun parts. Noted. How does having to buy insurance turn into "don't undock"? Building empires in EVE for over 11 years. Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2903	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:19:28 - [14] - Quote Troy Cintryx wrote: Stopping automatic insurance payments will slow the inflationary pressures being felt on the EVE market, which drives up the price of basically everything. Ah, I see your issue. You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false. You secondly believe that basic insurance payouts make up a significant portion of isk creation. And you thirdly believe that this will have any effect on the market. I suggest going away, and actually looking into your assumptions properly.
Troy Cintryx Strategic Operations Inc. 10	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:40:00 - [15] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Troy Cintryx wrote: Stopping automatic insurance payments will slow the inflationary pressures being felt on the EVE market, which drives up the price of basically everything. Ah, I see your issue. You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false. You secondly believe that basic insurance payouts make up a significant portion of isk creation. And you thirdly believe that this will have any effect on the market. I suggest going away, and actually looking into your assumptions properly. Please, Nevyn, tell me what else I believe. Clearly you've known me for so long that you know that. There is inflation in EVE. There's more ISK being created than disappearing. There's also more ISK per player then there was 10 years ago. I do not believe basic insurance makes up a "significant" portion of isk creation. Basic insurance creates isk without cost. I have suggested we eliminate that. Having every single player not receive 40% of their ships value every time they explode will absolutely have an effect on the EVE market. Not a major one, but it will have an effect. Let's say for example the SCC pays out 10 trillion ISK per day in basic insurance. While I don't think it would move the markets in any major way, keeping 10 trillion ISK per day out of the market would have an effect. I'm also not against insurance. I'm just advancing an idea that we have people pay for it. Building empires in EVE for over 11 years. Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1034	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:48:35 - [16] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: ...Can we move l4s to low sec as well Or make them as difficult as they used to be. We already have the new AI and soloing level 4 missions wasn't as easy as it is now before they introduced level 5 missions - which still are a bust. To hell with ewar immunity, Guristas jam you, Serpentis damn you, Sanshas tracking disrupt you, Blood Raider neut you and Angels well they are faster than anyone else and stuff, which leaves Rogue Drones that hurt you all over the doll. And we have it, level 4 missions as highest possible income with appropiate risk in highsec. You know, I still want to fly and afford a Moa every now and then. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2904	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:51:34 - [17] - Quote Troy Cintryx wrote: [ Please, Nevyn, tell me what else I believe. Clearly you've known me for so long that you know that. There is inflation in EVE. There's more ISK being created than disappearing. There's also more ISK per player then there was 10 years ago. I do not believe basic insurance makes up a "significant" portion of isk creation. Basic insurance creates isk without cost. I have suggested we eliminate that. Having every single player not receive 40% of their ships value every time they explode will absolutely have an effect on the EVE market. Not a major one, but it will have an effect. Let's say for example the SCC pays out 10 trillion ISK per day in basic insurance. While I don't think it would move the markets in any major way, keeping 10 trillion ISK per day out of the market would have an effect. I'm also not against insurance. I'm just advancing an idea that we have people pay for it. You are advancing the idea of austerity. Which advantages the already rich and pushes the middle class down. As for the rest, you are making up laughable figures when CCP have regularly and consistently released economic figures, and explained what is actually going on with the economy. At least use actual real numbers rather than inventing pure bull. Even if you get the conclusions wrong then you at least have some basis to start with. Anyway, the large price rises in the market have all been due to changes in build requirements causing significant mineral value changes, nothing to do with inflation at all. There is no need to screw with the poorer players for the sake of a tiny change to the overall isk faucets of EVE, which will not impact the markets because the rich won't be significantly affected.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1034	Posted - 2016.01.19 11:53:41 - [18] - Quote Troy Cintryx wrote: ...New/poor players have many different opportunities to make ISK, from agents, to mining, to whatever else they want to do. Losing their ship will teach them a valuable lesson.... STOP GETTING DESTROYED. Or, alternatively... BUY INSURANCE. You are quite a funny guy, hope you did a pricecheck recently. The insurance for an Apocalypse costs as much has a Harbinger, so you get almost the current pricetag pricetag of said Apocalypse but you didn't fit her yet. I don't know if you ever dabbled in ship vs ship combat but if you aren't winning, you lose all. Meaning you pay another 80-90 million for the loss of your fit and you will end up flying a Drake for some time. Either way, your wallet starts looking at you funny. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17124	Posted - 2016.01.19 12:23:00 - [19] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false. It is a fact that the cost to put together a ship has doubled in the last 5 years. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 870	Posted - 2016.01.19 12:46:45 - [20] - Quote What do I do about the carriers I steal in C1-C4 wormholes though?. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

morion Lighting Build 57	Posted - 2016.01.19 12:55:23 - [21] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false. It is a fact that the cost to put together a ship has doubled in the last 5 years. With market history in game going back only 1 year. I can not see that with my eyes.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15830	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:03:59 - [22] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Great idea for rich people, terrible idea for poor people. Ah ah ah. In the short term, perhaps. But part of what keeps the poor players poor is the relative income and buying power they lack... precisely because the rich players have such secure streams of income, especially liquid isk like insurance provides. Remember, income and buying power are all relative. A rich player(and we're really talking about rich PvE players compared to poor PvE players, I just wanted to establish that) gets way, way more raw benefit from basic insurance than a poor player ever will. Why? Because the rich player flies larger ships MUCH more often. Once you cross the barrier into flying and losing battlecruisers and battleships, you derive disproportionate benefit from it compared to people using frigates and cruisers. And that is cumulative, so the upper ends keep getting higher and higher raw numbers, outpacing the lower levels and creating inflation, which devalues the buying power of the poor player still further. To improve the lives of the space peasants we need to shake up the primary income streams in this game, and basic ship insurance is unfortunately a very big one. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
morion Lighting Build 57	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:46:59 - [23] - Quote Insurance v isk created / Stuff ^ exploded basic moor isk less stuff inflationary Ratting v isk created + stuff ^ born basic offsets or neutral Ratting without looting is inflationary Mining zero isk created + ^ Stuff is born deflationary That said insurance is a Isk faucet. I would like to see smarter insurance. It is only part of a larger picture.
Doddy Excidium. 948	Posted - 2016.01.19 14:14:29 - [24] - Quote Troy Cintryx wrote: Hey EVE. Troy Cintryx here. We should eliminate basic insurance on all ships. That's the 40% payout you automatically get when your ship goes ka-boom. I always wondered why this was in place to begin with. If people want insurance, they can pay for it. There needs to be greater consequences for getting destroyed. Death barely has any consequences anymore, save for the loss of any implants installed, or boosters... boosted. Anyway, I digress. Insurance can be bought at most stations for a price. It's not like it would be difficult for capsuleers to get if we eliminated basic insurance. I just think it's time the Secure Commerce Commission stopped rewarding people for getting destroyed. Note: There was a previous topic from 2012 here - I'm not talking about getting rid of ALL insurance, just the basic automatic insurance that everyone gets for free. You live in opposite land, the eve player base is already far too risk averse, that is why pvp has dried up. Removing insurance just makes people less likely to take risks.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 385	Posted - 2016.01.19 14:21:30 - [25] - Quote Doddy wrote: You live in opposite land, the eve player base is already far too risk averse, that is why pvp has dried up. Removing insurance just makes people less likely to take risks. He's advocating for the removal of "basic" insurance, the sort that you don't buy, but the kind that pays you out when you lose your ship regardless if you bought a policy or not. I don't know if that changes your response any, but you said "removing insurance", when he's just asking for the removal of free insurance. He outright said he wants to keep other insurances that you pay for. So if someone is risk adverse, they can still buy a policy. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Xe'Cara'eos A Big Enough Lever 400	Posted - 2016.01.19 15:54:46 - [26] - Quote while we're at it, can insurance instead of paying isk, pay out minerals/moongoo? - so if you get top insurance on a T1 ship, you can then go and find a ME 10 BPC, and make a new ship for only the cost of the run? For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17124	Posted - 2016.01.19 18:37:35 - [27] - Quote morion wrote: With market history in game going back only 1 year. I can not see that with my eyes. Info is there if you know where to look, I still have a load of old EON mags with prices in them. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1588	Posted - 2016.01.19 19:21:59 - [28] - Quote baltec1 wrote: morion wrote: With market history in game going back only 1 year. I can not see that with my eyes. Info is there if you know where to look, I still have a load of old EON mags with prices in them. Even if it's accurate (which I kind of doubt), it's incomplete. Most ships, as well as pretty much all T2 modules, have had their build inputs directly altered in that timeframe. Metamaterials were introduced, tiericide saw material costs normalized across entire classes, generally with the "bad" ships being brought up closer to the requirements for the "Good" ships, etc. You can't actually just look at a number from yesteryear and a number today and attribute the difference to inflationary action. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2906	Posted - 2016.01.19 21:12:25 - [29] - Quote baltec1 wrote: It is a fact that the cost to put together a ship has doubled in the last 5 years. Entirely related to CCP's changes to build requirements, build costs, introduction of supers which massively inflated the demand for trit, etc. As you very well know. Every price hike in the mineral market has happened as a direct response to a CCP change, not a gradual sneak of inflation. Trying to pretend otherwise as one of the main null cartels just shows how much you want this to step on the small guy, since the 'income stream' from this is at most 5% of what Null ratting brings in. Even if we attribute nearly all insurance payouts to basic payment.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17125	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:37:53 - [30] - Quote Doesn't matter how the prices have risen it doesn't change the fact that they have, OP's idea will change very little in the long run. Fact is that prices have gone up a lot over the years and there is an awful lot of isk sloshing about out there. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship

Eli Apol Definitely a nullsec alt 499	Posted - 2016.01.20 11:49:06 - [31] - Quote I still don't understand why the insurance companies keep on paying out to these irresponsible guys that lose their ships on an hourly basis without increasing their premiums. but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1042	Posted - 2016.01.20 12:25:10 - [32] - Quote morion wrote: With market history in game going back only 1 year. I can not see that with my eyes. ...and we almost care about you. I do have all the most common ship base prices in my head, floating around and my obsessive compulsive disorder is comparing my memory with current pricetags and goes haywire. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2507	Posted - 2016.01.20 13:58:08 - [33] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Great idea for rich people, terrible idea for poor people. Ah ah ah. In the short term, perhaps. But part of what keeps the poor players poor is the relative income and buying power they lack... precisely because the rich players have such secure streams of income, especially liquid isk like insurance provides. Remember, income and buying power are all relative. A rich player(and we're really talking about rich PvE players compared to poor PvE players, I just wanted to establish that) gets way, way more raw benefit from basic insurance than a poor player ever will. Why? Because the rich player flies larger ships MUCH more often. Once you cross the barrier into flying and losing battlecruisers and battleships, you derive disproportionate benefit from it compared to people using frigates and cruisers. And that is cumulative, so the upper ends keep getting higher and higher raw numbers, outpacing the lower levels and creating inflation, which devalues the buying power of the poor player still further. To improve the lives of the space peasants we need to shake up the primary income streams in this game, and basic ship insurance is unfortunately a very big one. The poor player would feel it worse than the rich guy if it was taken away tho since he does not have a stash of ISK to absorb losses. The player with a "rich" level of income probably no longer care about the payout one way or another because he can afford to lose the ship anyway. The player with a "poor" income is probably really happy to see that his T1 frig losses pas partially covered by a welfare system. The base insurance isn't one at the end of the day. It's just a welfare from CCP to push player to stay in ships. The only odd part of this welfare system is that it's applied to all bracket of income unlike welfare in the real world that would usually apply only to people who effectively need it.
Amber Starview Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:27:13 - [34] - Quote Absolutely not this idea is not required or needed in any way shape or form ~1 if you have too much ISk it makes you personally unhappy give some away to a new player Corp / simple
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4434	Posted - 2016.01.20 21:57:55 - [35] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Doddy wrote: You live in opposite land, the eve player base is already far too risk averse, that is why pvp has dried up. Removing insurance just makes people less likely to take risks. He's advocating for the removal of "basic" insurance, the sort that you don't buy, but the kind that pays you out when you lose your ship regardless if you bought a policy or not. I don't know if that changes your response any, but you said "removing insurance", when he's just asking for the removal of free insurance. He outright said he wants to keep other insurances that you pay for. So if someone is risk adverse, they can still buy a policy. Even basic insurance will change peoples evaluation of the risk in certain situations, most like leading people to be more risk averse. baltec1 wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false. It is a fact that the cost to put together a ship has doubled in the last 5 years. I think you are actually both correct. The average price of a Hyperion battleship in January 2010 was around 124 million ISK. Now the cost is 1.88 times higher or just under 234 million ISK. Now one could argue that that is inflation. However, if CCP does things to change the availability of minerals in game and thus the price of minerals then youGÇÖd see an increase in the price of battleships. But calling this inflation is only really true in the most basic sense of the word: inflation is an increase in prices. But typically inflation is considered to be a monetary phenomenonGÇöi.e. print more money you get inflation, contract the money supply (take money out of circulation by buying assets via open market operations or increasing ISK sinks in terms of the game) and you get deflation. In the later sense of the word inflation then the price of a Hyperion has been remarkable stable except for an uptick in the price starting in the fall of 2011 and stabilizing in Spring of 2012. When exactly did drone poo go away and when did refining loot drops from rats change? Since the Spring of 2012, the trend in price for the Hyperion has been, if anything, slightly negative. However, if we look at the data since August 2014 the price has been trending up slightly. There does appear to be a cycle in the price All data are from eve-marketdata.com Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4434	Posted - 2016.01.20 22:05:52 - [36] - Quote Regarding historical price increases for the Hyperion. From January 2010 to November 2011 the price increased 14%. From November 2011 to April 2012 the price increased 70%. That 70% increase is unlikely to be inflation, but is more likely due to changes in loot drops that made GÇ£mining with gunsGÇ¥ far less of a thing. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4436	Posted - 2016.01.20 22:12:08 - [37] - Quote Annual average prices for a Hyperion: YearAvg_Price 2010---113749241 2011---134637613 2012---214977236 2013---218973515 2014---207220150 2015---223308370 If there is sustained inflation...what happened to it after 2012? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1647	Posted - 2016.01.20 22:13:33 - [38] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Doesn't matter how the prices have risen It matters if you want to use naive price data as evidence of inflation. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15856	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:06:13 - [39] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Annual average prices for a Hyperion: YearAvg_Price 2010---113749241 2011---134637613 2012---214977236 2013---218973515 2014---207220150 2015---223308370 If there is sustained inflation...what happened to it after 2012? I'm curious why a Hyperion, instead of Plex, is being used as the metric here? My own claims of inflation have been purely Plex related for some time now. It's a very direct reflection on the value of time in EVE. Your time is worth less than it was in 2010, for example. A lot less. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4436	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:49:55 - [40] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Annual average prices for a Hyperion: YearAvg_Price 2010---113749241 2011---134637613 2012---214977236 2013---218973515 2014---207220150 2015---223308370 If there is sustained inflation...what happened to it after 2012? I'm curious why a Hyperion, instead of Plex, is being used as the metric here? My own claims of inflation have been purely Plex related for some time now. It's a very direct reflection on the value of time in EVE. Your time is worth less than it was in 2010, for example. A lot less. Back up stream the reference was to a battleship and inflation. PLEX has a much more gradual rise, but there are periods where the price climbs as well. Later when I get home I can down load the PLEX data and look at that too. I have the graphs of the average daily Hyperion prices that are quite interesting and was planning on posting those too. Well, links to them. I've been wondering though if PLEX is soaking up much of the extra ISK in the game thus keeping inflation "away" from other in game items. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15856	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:56:01 - [41] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: I've been wondering though if PLEX is soaking up much of the extra ISK in the game thus keeping inflation "away" from other in game items. That's been my working assumption, yes. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1655	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:58:46 - [42] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Annual average prices for a Hyperion: YearAvg_Price 2010---113749241 2011---134637613 2012---214977236 2013---218973515 2014---207220150 2015---223308370 If there is sustained inflation...what happened to it after 2012? I'm curious why a Hyperion, instead of Plex, is being used as the metric here? My own claims of inflation have been purely Plex related for some time now. It's a very direct reflection on the value of time in EVE. Your time is worth less than it was in 2010, for example. A lot less. Back up stream the reference was to a battleship and inflation. PLEX has a much more gradual rise, but there are periods where the price climbs as well. Later when I get home I can down load the PLEX data and look at that too. I have the graphs of the average daily Hyperion prices that are quite interesting and was planning on posting those too. Well, links to them. I've been wondering though if PLEX is soaking up much of the extra ISK in the game thus keeping inflation "away" from other in game items. Neither plex nor a hyperion, by itself, would generally be used as an indicator of inflation. You would typically track a price index of a "basket of goods". However, of the two, the hyperion would generally be a better indicator once you adjusted for spikes that were the result purely of direct changes to the game, such as build cost adjustments and ore/mineral yields, as to a certain degree, the price of a ship could be used as a sort of index price for the basket of minerals. If you wanted to really assess inflation in Eve, you would want to do it across several different market segments (raw material, T2 modules, ships, etc.), and need to adjust for the above mentioned changes. PLEX are an odd duck in their own right. New additions to the NES can tweak demand for PLEX, and they're also viewed as a "safe" inflation shield. Even if the price were to crash, they still have intrinsic value in their ability to be redeemed for AUR or game time. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4436	Posted - 2016.01.21 01:18:34 - [43] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Annual average prices for a Hyperion: YearAvg_Price 2010---113749241 2011---134637613 2012---214977236 2013---218973515 2014---207220150 2015---223308370 If there is sustained inflation...what happened to it after 2012? I'm curious why a Hyperion, instead of Plex, is being used as the metric here? My own claims of inflation have been purely Plex related for some time now. It's a very direct reflection on the value of time in EVE. Your time is worth less than it was in 2010, for example. A lot less. Back up stream the reference was to a battleship and inflation. PLEX has a much more gradual rise, but there are periods where the price climbs as well. Later when I get home I can down load the PLEX data and look at that too. I have the graphs of the average daily Hyperion prices that are quite interesting and was planning on posting those too. Well, links to them. I've been wondering though if PLEX is soaking up much of the extra ISK in the game thus keeping inflation "away" from other in game items. Neither plex nor a hyperion, by itself, would generally be used as an indicator of inflation. You would typically track a price index of a "basket of goods". However, of the two, the hyperion would generally be a better indicator once you adjusted for spikes that were the result purely of direct changes to the game, such as build cost adjustments and ore/mineral yields, as to a certain degree, the price of a ship could be used as a sort of index price for the basket of minerals. If you wanted to really assess inflation in Eve, you would want to do it across several different market segments (raw material, T2 modules, ships, etc.), and need to adjust for the above mentioned changes. PLEX are an odd duck in their own right. New additions to the NES can tweak demand for PLEX, and they're also viewed as a "safe" inflation shield. Even if the price were to crash, they still have intrinsic value in their ability to be redeemed for AUR or game time. Correct, ideally we'd pick a basket of goods and then construct the price index based on the quantities and the prices. And yes, you could look at say PI, T2 components, T2 modules, ships, and so forth, much like is done today with various price indices, but even these are not really measures of inflation, they are more like attempts to measure the cost of living which can change due to inflation, but other factors as well. Uhhhh....how did a discussion on insurance lead to price indices? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15857	Posted - 2016.01.21 01:56:30 - [44] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Uhhhh....how did a discussion on insurance lead to price indices? One of the major reasons to delete basic insurance is to remove the isk faucet it represents. And one of the reasons to do that is to help with inflation, as well as to increase the value of non-isk rewards and income. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
M1k3y Koontz Respawn Disabled The Initiative. 804	Posted - 2016.01.21 03:14:54 - [45] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false. It is a fact that the cost to put together a ship has doubled in the last 5 years. ^ Can confirm. My first Hurricane was something like 26-27m. Now they're over 50m. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz Respawn Disabled The Initiative. 804	Posted - 2016.01.21 03:18:36 - [46] - Quote morion wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false. It is a fact that the cost to put together a ship has doubled in the last 5 years. With market history in game going back only 1 year. I can not see that with my eyes. http://www.eve-markets.net/ That web site will let you go as far back as you want (as long as the website as existed, so 2008). You can check that way. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17135	Posted - 2016.01.21 05:03:55 - [47] - Quote As I said it doesnt matter how it happened prices have gone up. We have always had a great deal more isk entering the system than leaving and the last economy blob indicated that the playerbase has started to hoard isk on a scale the would rival scrooge mcduck. Spending twice as much on our things brings about problems such as PVE that has a fixed income (aka all the rewards are paid in bounties) are now effectively worth half what they used to be. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4436	Posted - 2016.01.21 05:39:54 - [48] - Quote Here are the graphs I mentioned earlier... Complete price history for the Hyperion from eve-marketdata.com Full data Data after April 2012. I'm sorry this does not look like inflation. baltec1 I usually agree with much of what you are posting, but this does NOT look like inflation--i.e. an increasing money supply. The data do NOT fit that explanation unless you want us to believe that for about a 6 month period the money supply dramatically increased and that increase stopped. This not to say that the the increase in the money supply is not having some effect overall...but looking at the graphs I have just linked, it looks like changes to minerals on the market (e.g. changes to loot drops) was the larger effect. Further, if people are hoarding ISK then it is, by definition, not in circulation and thus cannot be influencing prices. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17135	Posted - 2016.01.21 05:48:18 - [49] - Quote As I said it doesn't matter how its happened, its that its happened and its causing issues with parts of the game. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4436	Posted - 2016.01.21 05:55:06 - [50] - Quote baltec1 wrote: As I said it doesn't matter how its happened, its that its happened and its causing issues with parts of the game. Alright, you are beyond reason on this. If the costs are going up because of a supply shock to the inputs vs. a change in the money supply are two very different things. If you want to deny this, fine but you are quite simply wrong and, IMO, your reputation has taken a hit in this thread and that...that is a shame. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4436	Posted - 2016.01.21 07:02:25 - [51] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: baltec1 wrote: Doesn't matter how the prices have risen It matters if you want to use naive price data as evidence of inflation. ' Exactly. The reason for the price increase is different in the 2 scenarios. Scenario 1: The supply of ISK is increasing too fast and inflation is a problem. Scenario 2: CCP changed some aspect of the game resulting in higher prices, in this case a supply shock. The "policy response" if we are to design one is different in each scenario, to pretend they are the same it is worse than sticking one's head in the sand, it is sticking one's head into their third point of contact. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4437	Posted - 2016.01.21 07:24:54 - [52] - Quote Here is a PLEX price graph. Linky. This indicates, at least to me, where the problem with inflation is. My personal theory is that PLEX is viewed as a superior good, so as ISK rises consumption of PLEX rises disproportionately. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2914	Posted - 2016.01.21 07:50:52 - [53] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Here is a PLEX price graph. Linky. This indicates, at least to me, where the problem with inflation is. My personal theory is that PLEX is viewed as a superior good, so as ISK rises consumption of PLEX rises disproportionately. Except even that is use based as CCP introduce more and more Aurum uses. And CCP have confirmed that most plex trades are going through investor hands, not end user hands. Which means again it's not inflation, it's market speculation on a market small enough that it can be controlled. If anything is needed at all, it's some way to eat into the isk & asset savings of the big guys. Like oh,... costs for having more than 'x' value or 'x' volume in your hanger in a single station. Create a lot more of a use it or lose it effect which then encourages people to actually use assets rather than infinite stockpiles. However that has the downside of being very arbitrary.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4437	Posted - 2016.01.21 08:02:07 - [54] - Quote General FYI: Price index number calculations, at least on the consumer side, are attempts to calculate the cost of living. However, a true cost of living index is not observable, the next best thing is a cost of living index (COLI). The two most commonly used COLI are a Paasche or Lapereyes indexes. However, these indexes have issues. Namely both give greater weight to price increases to price decreases. This effect is considered a bias. Further, a cost of living index does not measure just inflation but any changes that increase the cost of living. Thus, it is an overly broad interpretation of inflation. Given the problems with the Paasche and the Laspereyes indices, such measures of inflation are biased upwards. To deal with the bias due to how the COLI is calculated teh solution is to switch to a superlative index such as the T+¦rnqvist index. CCP could easily do this as they have all the data necessary to do this. However, there are a number of points to keep in mind. A price index is not necessarily a measure of inflation but a measure of the change in the ability to purchase the basket of goods that make up a given level of consumer welfare. Given 1 above, inflation is primarily a monetary phenomenon. A Cost of Living Index is an approximation of the Cost of Living Adjustment, usually an upper bound. Thus a COLI/COLA is an upper bound on inflation. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17136	Posted - 2016.01.21 12:03:05 - [55] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: baltec1 wrote: As I said it doesn't matter how its happened, its that its happened and its causing issues with parts of the game. Alright, you are beyond reason on this. If the costs are going up because of a supply shock to the inputs vs. a change in the money supply are two very different things. If you want to deny this, fine but you are quite simply wrong and, IMO, your reputation has taken a hit in this thread and that...that is a shame. I have agreed its not all down to inflation and that the OPs idea would have little impact. But there is still the fact that the price of everything has just about doubled aside from pirate faction ships and t2 moon goo resources. It is far more complicated than too much isk entering the system and this does need to be addressed as there are several issues this price rise has caused. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4437	Posted - 2016.01.21 16:18:51 - [56] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: baltec1 wrote: As I said it doesn't matter how its happened, its that its happened and its causing issues with parts of the game. Alright, you are beyond reason on this. If the costs are going up because of a supply shock to the inputs vs. a change in the money supply are two very different things. If you want to deny this, fine but you are quite simply wrong and, IMO, your reputation has taken a hit in this thread and that...that is a shame. I have agreed its not all down to isk injection and that the OPs idea would have little impact. But there is still the fact that the price of everything has doubled aside from pirate faction ships and t2 moon goo resources. It is far more complicated than too much isk entering the system and this does need to be addressed as there are several issues this price rise has caused. Not seeing it with the moon goo except for dyspro, and in any index that would be countered by the massive drop in technetium. The problem with inflation is that there have been other factors that is going to confuse the issue. The recent changes to manufacturing and invention for example. Is there inflation in the economy, probably. Is it bad? Probably not at least based the items that have been looked at so far. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17136	Posted - 2016.01.21 18:17:28 - [57] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Not seeing it with the moon goo except for dyspro, and in any index that would be countered by the massive drop in technetium. Tech is the goo I was on about. It was a bottleneck and the price was artificially high. Teckos Pech wrote: The problem with inflation is that there have been other factors that is going to confuse the issue. The recent changes to manufacturing and invention for example. Is there inflation in the economy, probably. Is it bad? Probably not at least based the items that have been looked at so far. The bad isn't in everything costing twice as much its what that has done to some of the activities in the game. Belt ratting for example has gone of not bad income to terrible because of the way the reward pays out. Activities that have bounties as the primary for of payment have effectivly reduced in worth as the cost of buying stuff has gone up. With putting a ship together costing twice as much it means the effective spending power you have from running things that reward you in primerally bounties have halfed. This means any area of space that has this form of isk gathering as its primary income is now worth half what it was worth 6 years ago. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lugh Crow-Slave 1454	Posted - 2016.01.21 18:28:32 - [58] - Quote I'v got it we remove insurance and then bring it back but make it so you have to pay AUR for it Citadel worm hole tax
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1765	Posted - 2016.01.21 19:02:04 - [59] - Quote The hyperion (or any other ship for that matter) is a bad metric to judge inflation. Hull values have a lot of variables. I'll mention a few: Rail gun (or blaster) nerf or buff will directly affect value. Major t3 nerf would inversely effect BS value. BS class warp speed buff would directly effect value. General speed nerf would inversely effect a blaster boat. Adding MJD for BS hulls directly effects their value. Sloppy Sally puts out a skewed hyperion solo pvp video that all the pvp pubbies think is just awesome would directly effect the ships value (purely on emotion w/ no actual performance impact). Stinky Pete comes up w/ a sweet railperion doctrine that pwnts all T3 fleets - value leaps as all the null pubbies stockpile (again value is influenced by non-performance based stuff). and so on. The value of ship hulls are influenced by inflation, but there are a lot of other things that go into it. Real money correlates to plex which correlates to isk and can therefore be used to measure inflation. Stick w/ PLEX as the yardstick.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1765	Posted - 2016.01.21 19:20:34 - [60] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Not seeing it with the moon goo except for dyspro, and in any index that would be countered by the massive drop in technetium. Tech is the goo I was on about. It was a bottleneck and the price was artificially high. Teckos Pech wrote: The problem with inflation is that there have been other factors that is going to confuse the issue. The recent changes to manufacturing and invention for example. Is there inflation in the economy, probably. Is it bad? Probably not at least based the items that have been looked at so far. The bad isn't in everything costing twice as much its what that has done to some of the activities in the game. Belt ratting for example has gone of not bad income to terrible because of the way the reward pays out. Activities that have bounties as the primary for of payment have effectivly reduced in worth as the cost of buying stuff has gone up. With putting a ship together costing twice as much it means the effective spending power you have from running things that reward you in primerally bounties have halfed. This means any area of space that has this form of isk gathering as its primary income is now worth half what it was worth 6 years ago. A somewhat related factor is the ability to upgrade systems. Any system can be turned into anomaly farming heaven. There is no need to fight for 'good' space. All space is good. Since all space is good everyone has just settled in and anom farming is both easy and abundant. Getting the anom farming isk faucet under control is a different matter, but also a similar problem. Belt ratting is no longer a thing because you can warp to abelt, farm (at best) 5 mil isk and then warp to the next belt. You can upgrade any system and pollute it with anoms and make 10 of millions w/out moving. You can simultaneously support way more ratters w/ anoms than belts. Getting rid of insurance is a great first step. Getting rid of passive isk (current moon goo stystem) is a good second step. Removing 'all space is good space' is a good third step.

baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17137	Posted - 2016.01.21 21:21:28 - [61] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: A somewhat related factor is the ability to upgrade systems. Any system can be turned into anomaly farming heaven. There is no need to fight for 'good' space. All space is good. Since all space is good everyone has just settled in and anom farming is both easy and abundant. Getting the anom farming isk faucet under control is a different matter, but also a similar problem. Belt ratting is no longer a thing because you can warp to abelt, farm (at best) 5 mil isk and then warp to the next belt. You can upgrade any system and pollute it with anoms and make 10 of millions w/out moving. You can simultaneously support way more ratters w/ anoms than belts. There is in fact bad space out there, it actually makes up the bulk of null. Anom upgrades are impacted by the true-sec of the space, the worse the truesec the fewer anoms will spawn and the ones that do are of lower quality. There is also a the issue with that these things can only support a finite number of players and yes, you are quite right in saying you cant buff them without them becoming an issue with regards to injecting too much isk. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Darkblad 2563	Posted - 2016.01.21 21:24:37 - [62] - Quote morion wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false. It is a fact that the cost to put together a ship has doubled in the last 5 years. With market history in game going back only 1 year. I can not see that with my eyes. https://eve-central.com/dumps/
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2509	Posted - 2016.01.21 21:26:41 - [63] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Getting rid of insurance is a great first step. Getting rid of passive isk (current moon goo stystem) is a good second step. Removing 'all space is good space' is a good third step. Removing basic insurance does not solve anything and "hurt" the low earning guy more than the high earning one. The guy who grind his ship ISK will be affected by this elimination more than the guy who is rolling in ISK and and don't care about the x million his BS going boom gives him back. Passive ISK from moon goo generate 0 inflation unless people started having so much goo selling to NPC buy order has become competitive. I'm pretty sure it's not the case so this does not solve any inflation issue there might be. Removing "all space is good" could be positive IF the good space is good enough to support WAY more player than a good system currently does. If not, null player would be starved out of content to earn ISK leading them to not live in their space. The issue with remving "all space is good" is finding any use for the rest of the system who were not selected to be good. Do they only exist so space feel larger than it really need to be? How can you be sure people won't just find a diplomatic way to share the pool of good systems and thus stop the conflicts you think would be generated by a rarity?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4437	Posted - 2016.01.21 21:55:28 - [64] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: baltec1 wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Not seeing it with the moon goo except for dyspro, and in any index that would be countered by the massive drop in technetium. Tech is the goo I was on about. It was a bottleneck and the price was artificially high. Teckos Pech wrote: The problem with inflation is that there have been other factors that is going to confuse the issue. The recent changes to manufacturing and invention for example. Is there inflation in the economy, probably. Is it bad? Probably not at least based the items that have been looked at so far. The bad isn't in everything costing twice as much its what that has done to some of the activities in the game. Belt ratting for example has gone of not bad income to terrible because of the way the reward pays out. Activities that have bounties as the primary for of payment have effectivly reduced in worth as the cost of buying stuff has gone up. With putting a ship together costing twice as much it means the effective spending power you have from running things that reward you in primerally bounties have halfed. This means any area of space that has this form of isk gathering as its primary income is now worth half what it was worth 6 years ago. A somewhat related factor is the ability to upgrade systems. Any system can be turned into anomaly farming heaven. There is no need to fight for 'good' space. All space is good. Since all space is good everyone has just settled in and anom farming is both easy and abundant. Getting the anom farming isk faucet under control is a different matter, but also a similar problem. Belt ratting is no longer a thing because you can warp to abelt, farm (at best) 5 mil isk and then warp to the next belt. You can upgrade any system and pollute it with anoms and make 10 of millions w/out moving. You can simultaneously support way more ratters w/ anoms than belts. Getting rid of insurance is a great first step. Getting rid of passive isk (current moon goo stystem) is a good second step. Removing 'all space is good space' is a good third step. Getting rid of insurance is going to make some players less inclined to PvP and if you think that ISK sources are a problem it should very, very low on your list of things to go after and hence is a bad first step. So you have it exactly backwards. And as has been noted moon goo in no way has an effect on inflation. Changes to moon goo uses, the distribution of moon goo might effect prices, but that is not really inflation. Quote: Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon in the sense that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than in output. GÇª A steady rate of monetary growth at a moderate level can provide a framework under which a country can have little inflation and much growth. It will not produce perfect stability; it will not produce heaven on earth; but it can make an important contribution to a stable economic society.--Milton Friedman Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4437	Posted - 2016.01.21 22:08:54 - [65] - Quote You know....we know how much ISK is entering the in game economy. What I'd be curious to see is the amount of goods being produced. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2919	Posted - 2016.01.21 23:48:11 - [66] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: You know....we know how much ISK is entering the in game economy. What I'd be curious to see is the amount of goods being produced. I believe it's about 120 trillion per month, I found a graph showing that the other day but unfortunately didn't bookmark it. It didn't have a matching destruction value per month and I also don't think it included any direct LP store purchases or officer mods etc. Just things which use manufacturing.


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