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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
13671
   |
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:16:23 -
[211] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
I accept your surrender. You know that's what you just did right? They only time one gets these kinds of replies is when a poster knows what your saying makes sense and they don't want to admit it..
No, I am openly mocking you because you are coming off as a know-it-all; you're better than everyone because you work a crappy job as a public servant(by choice of course!), you've attempted to psychoanalyze peoples responses as an armchair psychologist, and now you are a master at game marketing and business plans for MMOs. It is amusing to me that you take ridicule as a sign of winning, you must win a lot of arguments on the internets 
I've claimed to be master of nothing, that's just you projecting son. I am saying that I think the maker of the game i liek is making some mistakes, and while to err is human, making avoidable mistakes is stupid, and making avoidable mistakes chasing new money is worse still.
If CCP thought skill trading was what the game (rather than their bottom line) needed, they could have made skill injectors and extractors items that drop from npcs and appear in lp stores. They could give them to new players who subscribe after trial as a 'welcome to new eden' gift. They could have done a lot of things, but they do the thing that monetizes SP above and beyond what the char bazaar did, and in a way that ends up as another major wealth faucet, and one that helps vets and will actually end up hurting new players.
I'm real sorry if you don't like me pointing these things out. But that's your problem.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2611
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:20:07 -
[212] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
You are wrong (and you're usually better than that). My using what CCP gives me in a video game, and CCP turning it's back on it's proven way of doing business to gamble on the hopes that 'new players' empowered by cash bought skill-points will stay (or a few whales will spend a lot of cash before leaving) are 2 different things.
You don't realize it, but of the two of us, I'm the one arguing for the continuation of EVE Online and CCP (by CCP learning the lessons of the past, which they haven't done as evidenced by SP trading). What CCP is actually doing is reckless. The difference between now and monocle-gate is that people are so used to being juiced by corporations now they don't recognize it when it's happening.
Keep on preaching without acting. You sure are teaching people a lesson by acting that way.
Abusing the system is bad but you abuse it just like the others. You can't expect to change people's mind over something when you admit to doing what you call wrong yourself.
The fact that some devs failed after entering the micro transaction ring does not mean CCP will fail just il some being successful does not mean they will succeed. The only thing we can say for sure is that it CAN work if you do it the right way. It's of course important to understand what "the right way" mean. The right way is right from the business standpoint. EA is making a killing out of it because they are doing it "the right way". The games that failed did it wrong. EA had a proven business model before going to DLC and other stuff like that and adding it to their market was "turning it's back" to it's usual business model. Doing so is a risk for anyone who tries it. You are thinking CCP will fail and possibly fall because of it. It's a legitimate point of view but it does not make it the right one just like I could also be wrong in thinking the risk will pay off.
Whoever's money is at stake is the one taking the real risk just like EA was when they started it, like blizzard started doing it and any other failed company when they tried it. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3291
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:25:23 -
[213] - Quote
For much of the time that I have been aware of Jenn a Side, he and I have been on opposite sides of just about everything to do with the game.
For us to have the same views on cash for skills, is indicative of how how bad an idea it is.
Furthermore, if CCP mange to get away with it, what next to nickle and dime us - the infamous gold ammo?
This is not a signature.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2611
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:28:17 -
[214] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:For much of the time that I have been aware of Jenn a Side, he and I have been on opposite sides of just about everything to do with the game.
For us to have the same views on cash for skills, is indicative of how how bad an idea it is.
Furthermore, if CCP mange to get away with it, what next to nickle and dime us - the infamous gold ammo?
What if you were both wrong on this case instead of both right? Is there anything that makes this completely impossible? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
13672
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:28:36 -
[215] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:For much of the time that I have been aware of Jenn a Side, he and I have been on opposite sides of just about everything to do with the game.
For us to have the same views on cash for skills, is indicative of how how bad an idea it is.
Furthermore, if CCP mange to get away with it, what next to nickle and dime us - the infamous gold ammo?
I just realized that Josef Djugashvilis and I are on the same side. This must mean I was wrong and I for one now fully welcome our new SP injected Overlords!.
Just kidding, SP trading still sucks. Now who here wants to buy some of my skill points, I'm feeling like whelping a Nyx tonight? 
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1915
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:18:04 -
[216] - Quote
You are not really going to see the true effects of SP trading until large alliances with ISK to burn (or members with real life deep pockets) can suddenly take on a new meta and have entire fleets retrained into a new doctrine ship the same week it is released. |
Osmonde Jr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 01:34:00 -
[217] - Quote
quote=David Semris]Osmonde Jr wrote: It really has no effect and the chances of new players dropping $600 (costs $300 if you already have alts) into a brand new game unless they have friends already in it is still pretty slim. Think a lot of the tears are from being unable to afford it when they first played the game is my guess  .
To use your numbers...
Boosting character to decent SPs in EVE online - 600 USD
Buying maxed out character in WoW - 60 USD
(Flying in virtual spaceship - priceless! The commercial just came to my mind... )
Something went awry. [/quote]
Yea it is a bit pricey, which is why I fail to understand where they keep getting this butt hurt of new players going to 500 mill sp as most typical whales spend what I do.
Jenn aSide wrote:Osmonde Jr wrote: Think a lot of the tears are from being unable to afford it when they first played the game is my guess . Some of us wanted our gameplay to mean something (in the context of the game of course). Personally, I wouldn't have started playing EVE if it offered this kind of "short cut for cash" option in 2007, which is why i don't start new games that do that now. They introduced PLEX a year after I started playing and that was a stretch but I could understand needing to counter illegal RMT, but SP trading doesn't combat any ills (it stands to make them worse as the rich players get richer off the backs of new players).
Well that is you problem that your only game play in Eve to have "meaning" is no different then a wow player or Rift player which is your characters sp you accumulated or the isk. Me it is the impact I make on other players whether I decide to help them or most of the time just **** in their Cheerios for the .
Also amusing you believe that plex combats isk trading when isk purchases are still 100x cheaper. No what combat isk trading is when CCP stop being lazy and scorch earth all the botting accounts and banning players that sell them and punishing buyers (see unholy rage). But of course for a long term veteran such as yourself you would have known that .
Anyway please, continue with the tears as I enjoy people who have nothing in life other then Eve to rage at the studio believing that it will force them to rescind all sp trading.
Also another bump as I know there are more then this person that is butt hurt over these changes, please let out the emotion, my shoulder is available  .
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
5742
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 05:09:17 -
[218] - Quote
Malcanis's Law: "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of GÇÿnew playersGÇÖ, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players." |
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
586
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 04:57:09 -
[219] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Pages of Goonish drivel.
All I can say is that maybe Mittens/James315/latest churned ganker alt should create some new content and get CCP to come up with a new skill.
Literate Forum Posting.
I realize it may slow you down into skilling into a Talos and get in on those big ganks...you know a defenseless Anshar or Bowhead. We know you won't attack a freakin Obelisk piloted by someone bright enough to have slaves and armor resists.
You could get a skill injector and become a literate forum poster overnight!
Kidding aside, This is just another REALLY dumb move by CCP. Almost as dumb as believing Goons advice on how things in the game should work. Almost...
Free to play coming up for noobs....then it's goodbye eve.
Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
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Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
177
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 16:01:38 -
[220] - Quote
Avvy wrote:pajedas wrote:RMT is BAD!!!
Really, the only difference is that CCP wants to corner the market.
They are the very essence of RMT now.
They're just getting in tune with other companies. At least they kept it in the player market.
Other companies don't even try to pretend they have (had) a sandbox. |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
13712
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 16:15:05 -
[221] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Malcanis's Law: "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of GÇÿnew playersGÇÖ, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
Maybe it's this law (which is actually just age old good sense instead of a true new thought, no one could have said it better than Malcanis though). My it's me having a firm foot in middle age now lol. But whatever it is, I've learned something: Don't argue (so much at least). Arguing just makes people entrench further in their beliefs.
The better way is to calmly wait for things to become so apparent that only the most delusional liar can ignore it, then point out to reasonable folks that the situation was avoidable with just a little bit of wisdom. I say Wisdom instead of intelligence because there is no shortage of intellectual horsepower in discussions like this, just very little foresight , and even less applying the lessons of the past to the current ideas.
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Divine Entervention
Hunters Elite
Krab Republic
818
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 15:13:06 -
[222] - Quote
Even with my own trepidations, I know this does not ruin the game.
EvE devalued still has a lot more to offer than just about every other mmo on the market.
Perfection is impossible and those who demand it will always find disappointment.
Except with me, cuz I'm #thebest |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2397
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 04:31:16 -
[223] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
You don't realize it, but of the two of us, I'm the one arguing for the continuation of EVE Online and CCP (by CCP learning the lessons of the past, which they haven't done as evidenced by SP trading). What CCP is actually doing is reckless. The difference between now and monocle-gate is that people are so used to being juiced by corporations now they don't recognize it when it's happening.
So what you are saying is that you know better than those involved at CCP. Great! Maybe they should hire you.
Given CCPs track record of woeful decisions thats not a big thing? There are good people at CCP but that matters little if theyre not making the decisions. Happens all the time - Hubble - engineers wanted to check mirror measurements management didnt. Challanger - engineers wanted to wait for warmer weather the night before launch over concerns o rings would freeze, management didnt. Im sure there are people at CCP shaking their heads at this lameness.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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blue dehazon
Vega Farscape
31
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 00:21:17 -
[224] - Quote
Kant se that thers many valid points in this thred,first of all SP have nothing with howe good you are or knowe the game,it only showe howe loong you been paying for playing it,only way to find out if som is better or knowe more about the game is to interact with other players in ways EvE let you do,And most gamers are don with a game after 3-5 years,earning ingame Sp can be better for the game in the loong run like a smal reward for actuly logging in and playing it,if its not just for repeting the same missions.Buying Sp on the marked will probebly not be a bigg issue,after all you all redy have the caracter bassar. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2400
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 01:36:50 -
[225] - Quote
blue dehazon wrote:Kant se that thers many valid points in this thred,first of all SP have nothing with howe good you are or knowe the game,it only showe howe loong you been paying for playing it,only way to find out if som is better or knowe more about the game is to interact with other players in ways EvE let you do,And most gamers are don with a game after 3-5 years,earning ingame Sp can be better for the game in the loong run like a smal reward for actuly logging in and playing it,if its not just for repeting the same missions.Buying Sp on the marked will probebly not be a bigg issue,after all you all redy have the caracter bassar.
Nothing to do with how good you are despite providing between 10% to 50% more cap hp repairing armor speed accuracy damage targeting ECM cap leeching cap draining scanning warp scrambling, range, tracking.... yup apparantly in EvE skillpoints dont matter its all about RL player skill =ƒÿë
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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blue dehazon
Vega Farscape
31
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 02:59:32 -
[226] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:blue dehazon wrote:Kant se that thers many valid points in this thred,first of all SP have nothing with howe good you are or knowe the game,it only showe howe loong you been paying for playing it,only way to find out if som is better or knowe more about the game is to interact with other players in ways EvE let you do,And most gamers are don with a game after 3-5 years,earning ingame Sp can be better for the game in the loong run like a smal reward for actuly logging in and playing it,if its not just for repeting the same missions.Buying Sp on the marked will probebly not be a bigg issue,after all you all redy have the caracter bassar. Nothing to do with how good you are despite providing between 10% to 50% more cap hp repairing armor speed accuracy damage targeting ECM cap leeching cap draining scanning warp scrambling, range, tracking.... yup apparantly in EvE skillpoints dont matter its all about RL player skill =ƒÿë Sp dont tell you what a player been doing in the game, im 70m+ SP.and not don that mutch PVP.have good basic knowled about the game and most ship,but knowe werry well that som wth mutch less sp kan have a lot more exp with pvp,the point is its all depends on what you doing in game,and yes max pvp and skills give you an advantage,but iven more so if you knowe what your doing. |
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1071
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 03:11:26 -
[227] - Quote
Stop the QQ people and play the god damn game already or leave it. There is nothing you can do about it unless you stop buying subscribes. And feel it that way. Shouting and debate won`t help at all. Only sturning people up for no reasons. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2400
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 03:11:54 -
[228] - Quote
blue dehazon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:blue dehazon wrote:Kant se that thers many valid points in this thred,first of all SP have nothing with howe good you are or knowe the game,it only showe howe loong you been paying for playing it,only way to find out if som is better or knowe more about the game is to interact with other players in ways EvE let you do,And most gamers are don with a game after 3-5 years,earning ingame Sp can be better for the game in the loong run like a smal reward for actuly logging in and playing it,if its not just for repeting the same missions.Buying Sp on the marked will probebly not be a bigg issue,after all you all redy have the caracter bassar. Nothing to do with how good you are despite providing between 10% to 50% more cap hp repairing armor speed accuracy damage targeting ECM cap leeching cap draining scanning warp scrambling, range, tracking.... yup apparantly in EvE skillpoints dont matter its all about RL player skill =ƒÿë Sp dont tell you what a player been doing in the game, im 70m+ SP.and not don that mutch PVP.have good basic knowled about the game and most ship,but knowe werry well that som wth mutch less sp kan have a lot more exp with pvp,the point is its all depends on what you doing in game,and yes max pvp and skills give you an advantage,but iven more so if you knowe what your doing.
That reasoning applies to almost every PvP game. Better RL skiiled players can beat badly RL skilled players. That goes without saying. In a game such as WoW a player who is total crap can beat an amazing player based on gear. In EvE that is also true - Gear in WoW is looted gear as well as gems, specs. Gear in EvE is ships as well as skills. There is a vast difference between a plated proteus with T2 guns with applicable skills skills trained to 5 vs the same ship with skills trained to minimum prereqs only.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Geronimo McVain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 09:32:55 -
[229] - Quote
1. for every player that want's to buy skills there has to be one who ist willing to distribute, CCP is NOT selling skillpoint but the ability to trade them: big difference.
2. Who cares? I always looked down on cheaters because they take the easy way and are destroying their own fun in the end. Man will I be proud of my fist battleship and mounr when it goes down. THATS why I play eve. And thats why I never gank: The most fun ist a fight that you crawl out with just the paint and ducktape holding your ship in one peace.
Anyone who takes the ultrafast lane will soon be bored about the game cause there isn't anything to achieve and to be proudly remember. So CCP get some money, players get some isk AND the ability to respec some alts. I wouldn't be surprised if most injectors will be used within an account and not really sold on the market. |
Ravana 729
Imperial Guardians
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 11:37:09 -
[230] - Quote
Ok first of all Eve is not a sandbox. I see people say that a lot but it is not much of one, and hasn't been for some time. People keep saying it is but it isn't. One of the ways it totally isn't a sandbox is the extremely problematic training climb - players MUST buy a character to even play the game. Being forced to fly frigs and do FW is not a sandbox at all. Not being able to influence the storyline at all unless CCP wills it is not a sandbox. Just look at the recent Imperium/Amarr conflict which CCP ignored so they could one-shot Jamyl because they have the attention span and imagination of an amoeba. Why would a company interfere with player driven stories with no professional writers on board?
Being forced to buy SP packs to augment training is not a sandbox. It means players like me who have extra cash and their dignity to sacrifice will prosper, other newbies will suffer the abhorrent current state of training. Secondly I am the target audience for the SP packs, low sp, one year of play, waiting months between ships I want to fly...it's absurd really. But I am not stupid and I refuse to shell out cash just because Eve has poor game design in its training and progression. Instead of fixing it they decided to cash in. And when I see this kind of behavior it seems desperate and really doesn't make me feel confident that the game is moving in a direction of growth.
When I saw that they were hiring people out of Electronic Arts it made me nervous. EA is known for this smash and grab behavior and cashing in wherever they think they can get away with it. I have boycotted EA games for almost 10 years.
As far as WoW being pay-to-win that situation is quite different. You have always been able to buy a bunch of ISK and then buy a "max" Eve Character. But the difference between WoW and Eve is that the game is playable from 1-100. It's fun to play in between if you choose not to buy a character prelevelled or not. Eve is quite different in that as a player there is no diversity at low levels unless you do Faction Warfare and get in a good corp. Even then you're limited to frigates and destroyers for quite some time, and they are not very effective compared to a one year old character. That is enough time to completely lose most new players.
Good game design requires game designers to hold the hand of new players, and let older players be free to do what they want.
I see little of either in Eve as it is right now. |
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Ravana 729
Imperial Guardians
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 12:02:12 -
[231] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Avvy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
You don't realize it, but of the two of us, I'm the one arguing for the continuation of EVE Online and CCP (by CCP learning the lessons of the past, which they haven't done as evidenced by SP trading). What CCP is actually doing is reckless. The difference between now and monocle-gate is that people are so used to being juiced by corporations now they don't recognize it when it's happening.
So what you are saying is that you know better than those involved at CCP. Great! Maybe they should hire you. Given CCPs track record of woeful decisions thats not a big thing? There are good people at CCP but that matters little if theyre not making the decisions. Happens all the time - Hubble - engineers wanted to check mirror measurements management didnt. Challanger - engineers wanted to wait for warmer weather the night before launch over concerns o rings would freeze, management didnt. Im sure there are people at CCP shaking their heads at this lameness.
I think about this all the time, I can't imagine how painful it must be for people to watch who are not in a position to change this shameful trend. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
1086
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 18:47:10 -
[232] - Quote
When CCP chose DUST over World of Darkness, that was their biggest mistake. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
56
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 20:34:51 -
[233] - Quote
Ravana 729 wrote:Ok first of all Eve is not a sandbox. .. (snip)
I think you may not understand what the definition of a sandbox is. All those things you pointed out were game mechanics and nothing to do with 'sandbox worthiness'.
The sandbox concept, from a game design perspective is:
- The entire game player base is in the same universe, no doppelganger split of the universe across servers to handle player load or locality issues.
- The rules are the same for everyone, but everyone decides how to use and play with the rules, the game itself does not attempt to control the players beyond the interaction and boundary restriction rules.
- A sandbox is always at risk for players inventing unforeseen ways to play and use/abuse the rules. CCP calls this 'emergent gameplay' and encourages it. (That's risky for a company, most are control freaks so CCP is very different there!)
None of the points you raise really counter any of the list above, so EVE is a sandbox and the most open one I've ever seen in a game, much less an MMO.
The skill system, good or bad, appears to be a 'level system' replacement that most other MMO's use. If you were a tabletop RPG player, games like Call of Cthulu, GURPS, the Hero System, etc. all had experience points you could either earn and add at will to your character, or in the case of CoC, you got to check a skill every time you successfully did it and then rolled against it after the adventure. If you 'failed' that skill roll, you actually learned something and went up a point in that skill (you generally learn more from failure than success), some GM's reversed that and required a double failure of the skill (fail at first for the check, fail at the second check, this let skills that were low climb faster.)
The point is, all games with characters generally have some kind of skill increase system, either levels, roll checks, experience points, or in EVE's case, skill training tree which is active every second of every day, something most other games don't do.
So all CCP has done now, as has been stated in this thread and many others, is to allow those skills to be sold and redistributed to others that want faster learning of them and are willing to pay cash for it. That's good for CCP and the players. Yes, I see the reason for those that had to stay subscribed for so long to get high skill chars and it chaps them that rookies can now equal them. However, it's up to the player to play the game their way. The "New Rich" types shouldn't be much of a threat and the "Old Rich" can recall the glory days and how hard it was to get there as well as be proud they did it the hard way.
This horse is so dead, the flies are even done with it and the bacteria are starting to feel like it's not worth their effort. Nothing left to beat folks. Maybe post on the feedback thread some positive changes you might like to see to the skill system.
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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1072
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 21:20:39 -
[234] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:When CCP chose DUST over World of Darkness, that was their biggest mistake.
That has nothing to do with eve. On topic the numbers are stable for now. And a little increase.
And lets hope it stop the drop in numbers.
Source : http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility |
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
1088
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 22:01:20 -
[235] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:When CCP chose DUST over World of Darkness, that was their biggest mistake. That has nothing to do with eve. On topic the numbers are stable for now. And a little increase. And lets hope it stop the drop in numbers. Source : http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Actually, it does. World of Darkness would have been another income generator for the company. More income = more money to allocate to projects. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2405
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 03:16:23 -
[236] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Johan Civire wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:When CCP chose DUST over World of Darkness, that was their biggest mistake. That has nothing to do with eve. On topic the numbers are stable for now. And a little increase. And lets hope it stop the drop in numbers. Source : http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Actually, it does. World of Darkness would have been another income generator for the company. More income = more money to allocate to projects.
Imagine Microsoft on finding their Windows flagship was popular didnt create Windows 95, XP etc etc. Or the Ipod was never turned into the Iphone. CCP never creating an EvE 2 is the biggest mistake CCP made not Dust or WoD.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Daerrol
Death By Design
Did he say Jump
294
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 05:46:48 -
[237] - Quote
People need to realize you could already do this for less IRL money than it costs now through the character bazaar. Used to get a very nice char for much less until SP trading came out. You just didn't know it was a 4 day old player who bought my Titan pilot, now you get to know. It's amazing how much agony people get when the veil is lifted but everything is pretty mcuh exactly as it was. (actually SP is now much more expensive to buy so likely less people will do it.) |
Ravana 729
Imperial Guardians
25
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 21:41:32 -
[238] - Quote
The word emergent in game design doesn't mean what you think it does.
It's a word used to describe the phenomenon of eerie realism that emerges when certain elements are brought together in just the right way. Sim City was one of the most famous games to do this, many other games can be observed creating this phenomenon. I havn't actually seen a lot of it in Eve, probably because of the limited amount of interaction one can have with the world of Eve itself. I don't consider interaction with people to be emergent gameplay, it's just playing with other humans, therefore it is real, but whether it's emergent depends on how good your sense of imagination is. If you're good at this then you will experience a special kind of emergence. But you can get this same kind of emergence from LARP and FPS . It isn't part of a sandbox experience.
One world is not a sandbox, even considering that there are private Eve servers and parallel universe instances of Eve. They have no bearing on the gameplay at all. How you got to this conclusion is beyond me. Maybe because you think that you end up dealing with more players? With the way servers are linked on most other games now it just isn't that unique or revolutionary, and it certainly isn't a part of a "sandbox"
A sandbox experience is one in which you can choose how you want to play the game, who you want to be. Some of that IS there, but most of it isn't. The very important parts that have to do with Pvp do not exist. I think this is why so many new players go into trading and mining.
The game needs an actual game designer to get in there and fix the power creep that has gone on and the bad game design that has been applied in an attempt to fix it. Someone who could design a fun board or card game from the ground up - not a programmer or artist, or someone who can do anything technical, but a real game designer. That's what game designers are for - they make stuff fun, and they know what words like emergence and sandbox mean. |
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