And how exactly do target painter modules remove 6 or more ships from a fight single handedly with a single boat?

How many tracking enhancers do you need on a single target to be invulnerable from attack?

How many damps boats do you need in a fleet to completely shut down an opposing fleet?

So, maybe T2 ECM should be -2 targets (most ewar that's ever useful on any target due to stacking penalties is 4 or 5.) But ECM is broken. It's unbalanced and that it remains the way it is in the game is a major sign of dev incompetence. And arguing "omg, my ECM solopwnmobile might no longer be all-poweful" is the most incompetent argument you can make in favor of it.

edit: but this isn't a 'nerf ecm' thread... this is a 'balance the races' thread. Back on topic, does anyone else think the core of the balancing should be focused on the rock/paper/scissors ewar philosophy? Or what kinds of ewar vs guns changes would need to happen to balance the races?

. ECM brings the role of force multiplier to the game and in that role it is perfectly balanced.

The amount of dumb in this thread is astounding.

The OP does bring up some fine points, but he's wrong on some of them.

The Talos is the only not being used, due to having to be at 0 and no tank, you might as well just get a Brutix.

250mm rails do hae a slight problem, but not as big as your making it out to be.

the problem is essentially the same: why fly anything other than Canes and Drakes?

I'd still like to see Hybrids redesigned.

Blasters = Slow rate of fire, HUGE alpha.

And by this, you mean "omg, my wtfsolopwnmobile will be balanced in line with the other ships! no way!"

Actually, I'm not particularly against 1 ewar ship shutting down multiple targets (i.e. force multiplication). The reason I'm particularly against ECM as it exists is because it's not balanced. No other race has a force multiplier at all if judged by the same standards. No other race has an ewar where the only defense of against it can completely fail to do it's job. No other race has an ewar where the mere threat of the possibility of encountering that ewar forces the defenders to decide if they will waste a slot on a defensive module that doesn't really do anything. And finally, ECM kills opportunities for creative fleet compositions and tactics (and rock/paper/scissors.)

And by this, you mean "omg, my wtfsolopwnmobile will be balanced in line with the other ships! no way!"

Actually, I'm not particularly against 1 ewar ship shutting down multiple targets (i.e. force multiplication). The reason I'm particularly against ECM as it exists is because it's not balanced. No other race has a force multiplier at all if judged by the same standards. No other race has an ewar where the only defense of against it can completely fail to do it's job. No other race has an ewar where the mere threat of the possibility of encountering that ewar forces the defenders to decide if they will waste a slot on a defensive module that doesn't really do anything. And finally, ECM kills opportunities for creative fleet compositions and tactics (and rock/paper/scissors.)

Speed boost and agility are nice. Still cannot catch targets for blaster love and hugs is the point I believe, amongst other things.

Yes we got a speed boost.

No, it wasn't enough to get us into engagement range with blasters before we pop. The main ***** about gallente is the supposed focus on blasters.

Scorch is the new Beams.

My gallente alt now has 200+ kills with a rail Talos, stop whining and innovate beyond trying to use cookie cutter blaster fits on ******* everything like all the other nubs.

My mega out runs and out manovers most BCs it meets now and the combat range of blasters is perfectly fine so long as you dont try to fly them like an auto ship.

My gallente alt now has 200+ kills with a rail Talos, stop whining and innovate beyond trying to use cookie cutter blaster fits on ******* everything like all the other nubs.

your solution, posted on another post, would totally remove the "force multiplier" role of ECM, making it a hindrance no bigger than a TP, since you would need to focus all your ewar in a single ship, and make it totally useless vs ships like logis that can lock 10 targets. And "creative fleet composition and tactics" is a bit relative. It is possible to make a creative fleet with ECM, that can beat a bigger fleet with no way to counter it, and that's what ECM is supposed to do.

Well the fact you put a close range gun in with long range guns should tell you pulse is pretty broken.-á

wrong, pulses are still relatively close range, with DPS dwindling severely as you switch to farther optimal crystals, and they are easy to overpower in a long term engagement IN FACT the biggest weakness of amarr pulse ships is their ******** levels of cap usage which IMO i belive is enough of a counterbalance to their high volley ability.

though arties have high alpha AND optimal and have NO excuse.

My gallente alt now has 200+ kills with a rail Talos, stop whining and innovate beyond trying to use cookie cutter blaster fits on ******* everything like all the other nubs.

Removing Rig Penalties would be a big start.

Between Gallente Armor Ships with Armor Rigs that don't hurt there Speed, Astronautics Rigs that increase it w/o hurting there tank and Hybrid Rigs that can be fit with a rack of Neutrons well that would definitely help a lot.

As long as Arties with there Massive Alpha and Selectable Dmg Types and Scorch that has the fleet range with greater tracking and Dmg Exist then Rails and Beams will always be a foot note.

Can you imagine an armor tanked hurricane with no loss to speed? All that would do is make minmatar even more OP.

The Talos is the only not being used, due to having to be at 0 and no tank, you might as well just get a Brutix.

Someone else posted a no-relock delay idea that might be acceptable if:

All other racial ewar boats had a 100% role bonus to their ewar (thus providing that force multiplier mechanic to other races). and ECCM had some benefit in addition to countering ECM.

ECM is a bad mechanic, from the randomness, to the counter, to it's ability to 100% completely remove someone from a fight rather than reduce their effectiveness.

I was going to suggest earlier that what if ECM, instead of breaking locks ECM had a 100% chance of offlining random modules? ECCM would be changed to reduce the capacitor needed to online those modules (and maybe a scripted secondary benefit, like reducing heat from overloading?) I'm not sure how this would balance with rock/paper/scissors ewar between the races, but either way, pretty much ANY other idea is better than ECM as it is now.