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Shira d'Radonis
Amarr
Minmatar United Freedom Front
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.02.04 01:49:00 -
[61]
While I've already said that I think the Republic shouldn't have conducted this unpleasant business in the manner in which it did, dealing with Muritor was absolutely essential. People don't seem to realize the embarressing and compromising situation that such freedom fighter groups put the Republic in not only with its enemies but with its friends as well.
When partisans carry out unsanctioned actions and steal state property, they make the Republic look impotent, or even worse, complicit. The government then has to respond to this international skepticism by dealing with these elements. It has to prove to the Gallente that the it can handle issues in its own backyard, and it has to prove to the Amarrians that the government is not giving these groups support behind the scenes. If they fail to do that, then it provides the Empire with a pre-packaged justification for war and an excuse for the Gallente to gracefully wash their hands of the situation...
The Republic walks a tight rope right now trying to avert a disastrous war that I think even the most ardent partisan knows the Republic is not at all likely to win.
Not only must the government make a proper showing of trying to maintain the peace and demonstrating its capability to manage itself, but it has to do so very loudly. Quietly dealing with Muritor either by killing him or negotiating with him would not do. It had to be something big. Preferrably, he should've been arrested. I've heard a few of Ushra'Khan's members say that they would've accepted his arrest and trial but that using a friend to assasinate him was inexcusable. On that point I agree. The friend should've been used to convince him to surrender himself to the authorities and if that failed to work, then he was resisting arrest and if he was killed in the process then... oh well. But the government has made the mistake of letting others take the spin initiative... but whether guilty of cold-blooded assasination or political ineptitude, the government has clearly managed to botch this whole affair.
So in my typically long-winded way, what I mean to say by all of this is that neither side is blameless. Everyone has some valid points as well as some foundless bluster, and so I think before this gets any more out of hand, the two sides need to talk rationally with each other. No more public condemnations. No more bounties. Just rational discussion away from the eyes of those who mean to exploit an internal conflict...
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ōąquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
"Our histories, one day, will absolve me..."
- Shira d'Radonis
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Ottom Ephesianos
Amarr
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.04 03:54:00 -
[62]
The bounty is a necessary counter to Captain Muritors assassination. There was no trial and under CONCORD the second he left Republic space and still had allied with groups such as the Ushra-Khan political asylum is a viable option in response to military tribunal. There for at a trial must be conducted with representatives from all affiliated parties.
None of which actually happened: Making the soul party members of the crime of Captain Muritors murder subject to serious inquiry and public trial.
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"Trust me I've done this before."
Elite R. Ephesianos
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.04 04:45:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Originally by: Pezzle
So you went from Rebel 'freedom fighters', to pirates to traitors.
Nonsense.
The Ushra'Khan are to be commended for being clear-eyed enough to see that the state that was once created as a shelter and advocate for their people has become simply another machine that will do literally anything to perpetuate its existence.
There has been a betrayal here but it is not on the part of the Ushra'Khan or anyone else who fights for true freedom.
I wish the hunters of those who live only to oppress all good fortune.
The Cosmopolite
May I have some lemon with that twist?
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.04 06:17:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Shira d'Radonis
When partisans carry out unsanctioned actions and steal state property, they make the Republic look impotent, or even worse, complicit.
There is nothing wrong with being complicit in a cause as noble as the freedom of our people. By stamping on any of our people with the glands to fight the enemy the Republic does however render itself impotent.
Face it, those ships may as well have been discarded as military surplus. Midular and her cronies were never going to use them except maybe to host the signing over to the Amarr of all Republic territories.
>> RECRUITING << |
Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.04 16:02:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
where was her last known location?
the tallest tower in the land plated with gold and encrusted gems built of the backs of our dying children and painted in their blood bought with hollow peace.
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Tomahawk Bliss
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Posted - 2007.02.04 20:40:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Hakera
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
where was her last known location?
the tallest tower in the land plated with gold and encrusted gems built of the backs of our dying children and painted in their blood bought with hollow peace.
can i get an address, because that sounds like a lot of places.
Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think.
GLBTA Channel |
Kell Atorr
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.04 20:46:00 -
[67]
Anyone who has actually worked for the Republic knows how many dangers the Republic is actively confronting. There's not a warship in the Republic Fleet whose armor is unscarred from defending our people from the constant harassment we face.
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Sapphrine
Kinda'Shujaa
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.04 23:24:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kell Atorr
Anyone who has actually worked for the Republic knows how many dangers the Republic is actively confronting. There's not a warship in the Republic Fleet whose armor is unscarred from defending our people from the constant harassment we face.
And yet they are held back from fully fighting back by a spineless leader who lacks the courage to fight to free her people. The fleet may well be valiant, indeed i do not doubt that they are, the Republic's head of state however... that is another matter.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.04 23:43:00 -
[69]
I have it - and you have it - from a Fleet Admiral, that should there be a war between us and the Amarr now, it would not end well.
You excuse me if I take the Fleet's estimate of the strategic situation as more reliable than yours? ;)
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Vreena
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.05 00:46:00 -
[70]
I don't know why I'm sticking my nose in this, but here we go...maybe it's because I'm making 26 jumps right now...
Some one said that attacking the government now was a hard choice, but if you look at the other choice, which one is really harder? Attacking the government, or making the people see what's wrong with it?
Half of you want blood, and I would as well I think, but an eye for an eye is the easy choice that you have. It's also the most disastrous for your people. The Amarr want you to fight for the profit of the Amarr and their people are doing a grand job of setting you against each other. As to it being the easy choice? The easiest reaction is to draw your guns. It's easier to demand blood shed than to try and work things out. To rally the Minmatar people together against this government that honestly seems to not have its entire people in their minds.
From what I see of your conflict, you're falling right into what the Amarr want. A civil war benefits none of you except the Amarr who can exploit it to attack the Republic. Whether or not they succeed set aside, they will have more success if you are fighting each other than if you are together. Looking at it logically, it would be the perfect time to attack.
Finally, it is the Amarrian's business how this conflict turns out. After all, they really want their slaves back.
Vreena
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One Caracal down. *sigh* I'm broke again. |
Kell Atorr
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 02:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Hakera
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
where was her last known location?
the tallest tower in the land plated with gold and encrusted gems built of the backs of our dying children and painted in their blood bought with hollow peace.
Such a ludicrous metaphor. We Matari are well-known -- when not ridiculed -- for our severe asceticism. We don't waste our limited resources on fancy trappings. Even the offices of Parliament and of the Tribe bureaus are plainer than the meanest of warehouses in the Gallente Federation. Where *does* our wealth go? Towards defense, and towards educating and integrating freedmen, mostly -- as you all know perfectly well.
It is a commonplace of strategic thinking, that one must be able to meet the enemy's direct assault, but one wins the battle with the flanking maneuver. It is, of course, a metaphor. The direct assault is obvious, but the flanking maneuver cannot be expected by the enemy. One does not publicize the flanking maneuver on GalNet -- not directly, anyway.
How can you not understand this? How can you not perceive the real purpose of the Republic?
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Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 04:50:00 -
[72]
I say again, we must attempt a political solution rather than one of violence. Attacking her or the Republic Fleet will throw the Republic into a civil war. The survivors will then have to contend with the Second Reclaiming as the Amarr attack again.
Instead, we must use this opportunity to call for political change. Demand Midular's resignation. Demand a full investigation. But do not start a civil war that will destroy the Republic, and take the freedom of the Matari people with it.
__________________________________________
What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Sapphrine
Kinda'Shujaa
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 05:00:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I have it - and you have it - from a Fleet Admiral, that should there be a war between us and the Amarr now, it would not end well.
You excuse me if I take the Fleet's estimate of the strategic situation as more reliable than yours? ;)
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I have it - and you have it - from a Fleet Admiral, that should there be a war between us and the Amarr now, it would not end well.
You excuse me if I take the Fleet's estimate of the strategic situation as more reliable than yours? ;)
Yes by all means try and diminish my strategic analysis of the situation, it's not as though I don't lead Fleets of ships into battle every week, its not like I don't lead skirimish forces daily.
Your personal besmirchment aside, if I was the admiral and had Midular as a leader then no, should there be a war between us and the Amarr with Midular as a leader I do not believe for one second that our forces could succeed. She is not the kind of leader that is willing to see a conflict through, hell she refuses to even start one for fear that we might take some losses and suffer in search of our true cause.
Under a true leader, a leader with a military background and the ability to utilise our Fleet to its maximum potential.... I wander if our Fleet Admirals answer would be different. After all, a small group of 'traitors' and a bunch of 'rebels' manage to achieve a victory that the Republics leader did not believe possible in the destruction of an Amarr Battlestation. Who knows what else could be achieved with a real Leader for the Minmatar people!
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Sapphrine
Kinda'Shujaa
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 05:02:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Nachshon
I say again, we must attempt a political solution rather than one of violence. Attacking her or the Republic Fleet will throw the Republic into a civil war. The survivors will then have to contend with the Second Reclaiming as the Amarr attack again.
Instead, we must use this opportunity to call for political change. Demand Midular's resignation. Demand a full investigation. But do not start a civil war that will destroy the Republic, and take the freedom of the Matari people with it.
Why do you seem to believe that the death of Midular would mean a Civil war. Personally I'd see it as a reason to have a big party.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 05:39:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Nachshon
I say again, we must attempt a political solution rather than one of violence. Attacking her or the Republic Fleet will throw the Republic into a civil war. The survivors will then have to contend with the Second Reclaiming as the Amarr attack again.
Instead, we must use this opportunity to call for political change. Demand Midular's resignation. Demand a full investigation. But do not start a civil war that will destroy the Republic, and take the freedom of the Matari people with it.
We are calling for regime change. We are calling for elections. It is the Republicans sending out death squads and talking about civil war.
Of course like the majority of Matari in the galaxy our voices are ignored by the Republic. Slaves don't get a vote, nor do exiles and outlaws. I am sure it is no coincidence that anyone who stands against Midular ends up falling into one of those categories eventually.
Midular chose to start sending out hit squads against freedom fighters, if her life is in danger because of that choice then welcome to consequence.
Does the Republic support this action? does the Republic condone death squads coming for prominant freedom fighters? An election will answer that once and for all. As long as Midular is allowed to remain in power then the answer to those questions is a simple yes.
You want a political solution? We demand Midular step down. We demand elections. There, now make it happen. My influance in Republic politics has waned somewhat since I became listed as a traitor and exile for fighting to free our people.
>> RECRUITING << |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 07:06:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sapphrine
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I have it - and you have it - from a Fleet Admiral, that should there be a war between us and the Amarr now, it would not end well.
You excuse me if I take the Fleet's estimate of the strategic situation as more reliable than yours? ;)
Yes by all means try and diminish my strategic analysis of the situation, it's not as though I don't lead Fleets of ships into battle every week, its not like I don't lead skirimish forces daily.
Your personal besmirchment aside, if I was the admiral and had Midular as a leader then no, should there be a war between us and the Amarr with Midular as a leader I do not believe for one second that our forces could succeed. She is not the kind of leader that is willing to see a conflict through, hell she refuses to even start one for fear that we might take some losses and suffer in search of our true cause.
Under a true leader, a leader with a military background and the ability to utilise our Fleet to its maximum potential.... I wander if our Fleet Admirals answer would be different. After all, a small group of 'traitors' and a bunch of 'rebels' manage to achieve a victory that the Republics leader did not believe possible in the destruction of an Amarr Battlestation. Who knows what else could be achieved with a real Leader for the Minmatar people!
Making sure: your strategic analysis is that under competent leadership, the Republic probably would win an offensive war against the Amarr Empire?
--
NMTZ forum |
Occasus Vim
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 07:10:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Occasus Vim on 05/02/2007 07:09:34
To those dreading the implications of internal conflict, consider your fears and your chief argument:
"If we fight, the Amarr will take us all."
Listen! Listen to yourselves! There is no doubt in your mind that the jailers, the owners, the torturers of your great grandparents would seize this opportunity to strike us.
We tell you that they are already seizing, striking, every hour of every day.
Both Rebel and Republican forces in current or recent wars with Loyalist factions know this to be true, the political propagandists be damned. You know it, I know it, they know it. Whether we bicker amongst ourselves or not, our people are being smuggled out of our borders into lives they did not choose. Countless others are being born into that life daily only because the Empire had the power and technology to enslave us when they came upon the Matari in their crusade of expansion and subjugation across the stars. Slavery is not legitimated by the fact that there was not power enough to resist it when it was imposed.
You still fear there is not power enough. But you are wrong. You fight for a Republic that exists because people fought and died during a time that had less hope than now. Leadership that will fight for all free Matari, and will not forfeit any of our ancestors children to a fate on a slaver's inventory manifest, no matter how long their line has been in slavery, is the only kind of leadership we can follow, and keep our consciences.
We owe it to those who died in the Rebellion to keep fighting, to never cow under even constant threats, to stamp out the power of that threat so that it cannot be turned on us again.
You have said it yourselves, the Amarr will exploit our every weakness. So let us stop being weak and fight together, not sit idly by, building our castles in the sky together. No matter how high we build our walls, if left alone in their current mindsets, our oppressors will always endeavour to breach them.
No more 'peacekeeping' when there is no real peace to be kept. We can only find that peace when we prove we cannot be taken again.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 09:39:00 -
[78]
Your words are very strong and tempting, Occasus Vim.
But again, you'll excuse me if I trust the Fleet's assessment of the strategic situation better than yours.
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Forty Three
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 09:43:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Forty Three on 05/02/2007 09:40:09
Edited by: Forty Three on 05/02/2007 09:39:25
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Sapphrine
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I have it - and you have it - from a Fleet Admiral, that should there be a war between us and the Amarr now, it would not end well.
You excuse me if I take the Fleet's estimate of the strategic situation as more reliable than yours? ;)
Yes by all means try and diminish my strategic analysis of the situation, it's not as though I don't lead Fleets of ships into battle every week, its not like I don't lead skirimish forces daily.
Your personal besmirchment aside, if I was the admiral and had Midular as a leader then no, should there be a war between us and the Amarr with Midular as a leader I do not believe for one second that our forces could succeed. She is not the kind of leader that is willing to see a conflict through, hell she refuses to even start one for fear that we might take some losses and suffer in search of our true cause.
Under a true leader, a leader with a military background and the ability to utilise our Fleet to its maximum potential.... I wander if our Fleet Admirals answer would be different. After all, a small group of 'traitors' and a bunch of 'rebels' manage to achieve a victory that the Republics leader did not believe possible in the destruction of an Amarr Battlestation. Who knows what else could be achieved with a real Leader for the Minmatar people!
Making sure: your strategic analysis is that under competent leadership, the Republic probably would win an offensive war against the Amarr Empire?
And this is why Midular's goverment is a faliure... You underestimate our true strength... strength that comes from the union of all the tribes... The Empire is weak, The Emperor is dead... Under competent leadership, so much more could be done to free our brothers... what if the Fleet was used to free our brothers instead of being used to kill them?
and, finally, excuse me while I laugh at you for discrediting Sapprine's strategic analysis... he has been in more fights and freed more matari than any of you pigs ever would... you should be ashamed
UNITY!!!
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Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 10:23:00 -
[80]
Well, and a Sigma to everybody,
I've been mulling over this for a while.
Desertion and capital theft is probably something that was asking for a hefty penalty, so I won't argue that Captain Muritor had it coming. Some call his late actions against the Amarr Empire treason to the peace, which would be worse.
What however I'd like to highlight is that THERE WAS NO PUBLIC TRIAL. This could have been done in absentia.
This is a beef I've got with the current Republic leadership. Secret decisions, behind-the-curtains going on, not a single word of public communication with the public at large, and then suddenly you find yourself at the receiving end of a law you haven't even had a chance to read.
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Firstly I would like to see all the tribes represented, not just four. Greater effort should be made to reconcile with the Thukker and rumours of Starkmanir survivors should be followed up. The Republic needs to compromise more with our own people as we are very diverse and do not all dance to one drum.
For a start, I'd love to hear an official public declaration on WHY, in the first place, the Republic has put the Thukker tribe in the same bin as the Angels. Everybody is speculating it's because of all the drug trafficking - but is it? I mean, WE can change, too. We do need to know what's wrong first. Even the Nefantar receive more respect than that, and personally I believe we should make an attempt at a reconciliation even with those, and I'm now finding myself officially at war declared by Scagga and his friends.
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
It is time for new leadership. It is time for a new Republic. A Republic for the people and of the people. All of them.
Oh yes please. But make it one that talks, if you have to drag them into pubs and make them drunk.
It's sort of ironic: The Amarrian Empire is failing to elect a new Emperor, and yet they find it easier to reason their causes by cleverly interpreting their scriptures than us with our Midular, who won't talk and has us guessing what her wishes are.
Family Tahar, of Clan Hadar, of Caravan of Namtz'Aar K'in |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 10:23:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Forty Three
Edited by: Forty Three on 05/02/2007 09:40:09
Edited by: Forty Three on 05/02/2007 09:39:25
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Making sure: your strategic analysis is that under competent leadership, the Republic probably would win an offensive war against the Amarr Empire?
and, finally, excuse me while I laugh at you for discrediting Sapprine's strategic analysis... he has been in more fights and freed more matari than any of you pigs ever would... you should be ashamed
UNITY!!!
Please point out where I discredited his analysis? To me that reads as a request for clarification.
--
NMTZ forum |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 10:35:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Firstly I would like to see all the tribes represented, not just four. Greater effort should be made to reconcile with the Thukker and rumours of Starkmanir survivors should be followed up. The Republic needs to compromise more with our own people as we are very diverse and do not all dance to one drum.
Mind you, it was the Thukker tribe's own decision to stay out of the Republic. I am sure if they wanted to open negotiations about joining now, the government would talk to them. However, it is the whole basis of the Republic that tribes are independent in their internal matters. We cannot force the Thukker to join in. There are those who say we should have sent in the Fleet when they refused to co-operate, but personally I do not believe in that - it would go against all that we believe in.
Those of you quick to blame the Republic about changing standings overnight - might I remind you that the same happened the other way round too? Without communications from either the Thukker tribe leaders or the Republic, how can you know who took the initiative there?
Though I agree that hearing the whole story would be good for us all.
(( OOC: And no, no one here represents the Thukker tribe anymore than I am Karin Midular. Silence from CCP can be interpreted as silence from the government, but if you go that route, then Thukker tribe is equally stubborn and guilty in my books. :P ))
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 11:53:00 -
[83]
The Thukker, a free spirited, independant and nomadic tribe. Their tribe elder died during the Reclaiming, terrible blow that.
So, instead of being offered equal representation they have the choice. In matters extending outside the scope of their tribe submit to the will of the Sebiestor and Midular. Or scratch out their own path outside Republic restrictions. Is anybody really suprised at the choice they made?
So the Republic lists them as pirates and smugglers. Speaking as one who also lives on the fringe of space you have to rub shoulders with all types out here. As far as the Thukkers are concerned there is a big difference between walking the path and harbouring those who walk it.
Of course it doesn't serve Republic interests to acknowledge that distinction. Although my cousins, my father was Thukker, can name quite a number of Republic officials that routinely purchase all manner of pills from them. Fancy that, corrupt officials in the Republic still wanting what the Thukkers can get. I don't blame the suppliers for that, I blame the buyers. Without them there would be no market and there would be no smuggling.
>> RECRUITING << |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 12:47:00 -
[84]
Well, the drug laws are idiotic if you ask me, but don't you think that's beside the point of the current debate, really?
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:42:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Ottom Ephesianos
The bounty is a necessary counter to Captain Muritors assassination. There was no trial and under CONCORD the second he left Republic space and still had allied with groups such as the Ushra-Khan political asylum is a viable option in response to military tribunal. There for at a trial must be conducted with representatives from all affiliated parties.
None of which actually happened: Making the soul party members of the crime of Captain Muritors murder subject to serious inquiry and public trial.
There was no trail because Muritor didn't want to give himself up.
As far as I know, Republic law is applicable to every Republic Fleet vessel, notwithstanding the fact that they are not in Republic space. Wars would be pretty hard to fight if the second you cross a border you are no longer subject to the military law of your own state.
Muritor could have resigned and joined Ushra'Khan legally. He didn't and suffered the consequences.
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Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.06 01:37:00 -
[86]
Were Midular to be assassinated, that alone might not spark a civil war. What would spark a civil war would be violent clashes between Ushra'Khan and the Republic Fleet - which might happen if Midular were to be assassinated.
Actually, your valuing of Midular at 1 ISK, rounded up, might actually be helpful. Nobody is going to try and assassinate her for a mere 1 ISK - a single round of ammo can cost more.
__________________________________________
What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.06 02:03:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Well, the drug laws are idiotic if you ask me, but don't you think that's beside the point of the current debate, really?
Not at all. I hear people defending the execution of Muritor as an upholding of the Republics laws. Yet when those laws get between a member of Parliament and his bag of crash they are cast aside.
The only people Muritor killed were slavers. The enemy of our people. The drug trade claims countless lives, not only of the addicts in the Republic but of those strong armed by the cartels.
No doubt the reaction to this is that there are grey areas of law. I say there should not be. You cannot uphold one law and ignore another then claim to be a just society.
But of course, in the Republic if you speak against Midular you must be a traitor. If you see anything distastful then it is beside the point. Oh what brave new world is this.
>> RECRUITING << |
Rocius
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.06 04:01:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
But of course, in the Republic if you speak against Midular you must be a traitor. If you see anything distastful then it is beside the point. Oh what brave new world is this.
I do belive you sir may be under the influence of drugs yourself. Frankly haveing to constantly hear crap from a bunch of sepratists that seem to be more self centered for their own hind quarters than the good of that which the scream so loudly against? Tell me sir, how is the view from the sidelines? You were once a great and wise man Telemicus, yet the longer you are away, the more indoctrined you become. Speaking against Midular doesnt make you a traitor. Never has. There are many people in the Republic that would not mind an election to see her replaced. I would never see them silenced. It is my personal opinion that she is not doing her job well enough actualy. BUT, so long as she is in charge, I will follow. I do however belive, that placing a bounty on the head of the Republic, because YOU dont agree with her, to be very traitorous. Odd how its ok from your point of view, but not mine eh? Bigoted is what I see.
Oh, and by the way, desertion and Capital ship theft... yeah, that is Treason. The fact that he was given as many chances as he was before a shot was fired should have been proof enough, that Fleet sought a more peacable path. Karishal made his choice. Karishal paid the price.
Rocius
CEO, Gradient |
Sholar
Minmatar
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.02.06 05:17:00 -
[89]
I cannot believe that this is how Muritor would have wanted the freedom fighters to respond to his death. What you are calling for is a conflict that will bring with it the death of scores of Matari and weaken both the Republic and the greater Minmatar freedom fighting community.
If we cannot settle our differences but through violence, if we cannot trust in peaceful means to exert the will of the Matari people in our own government, then we will push back the cause of freedom a dozen generations. A great injustice has been done in the assassination of a brave soldier of freedom, but we must not let this tragedy spark the unraveling of the last strands of Matari unity. For if civil war is the only path left, then the slavers have won and I refuse to accept that outcome.
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Explosion Matrix: Our Name Makes No Sense |
Tar Kovsky
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.06 05:30:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Sholar
I cannot believe that this is how Muritor would have wanted the freedom fighters to respond to his death.
As to what Muritor wanted, I have the following transcript:
Quote:
Karishal Muritor > The Empire has weakened, they are splintered and the infighting that they have saught to keep from the public eye is becoming more apparent with the Navys beligerance
Karishal Muritor > We can beat them, the people of the Republic have seen you and us in action, I believe they have seen this too
rotweiler > Even the toughest of woods succumbs to rot when in the water for too long brother
Tar Kovsky > Isn't your strategic goal to motivate the Republic into action?
Karishal Muritor > Even so, it does not do to underestimate your enemy
Karishal Muritor > Indeed Tar
Ugleb > /emote snorts "Forgive my scepticism on that point"
Karishal Muritor > /emote nods
Karishal Muritor > I know, they have been less than forthcoming on that point in the past
Karishal Muritor > However, there are honourable men in the Fleet. Men that look across the border as I do, as we do, and see the full plight of our people
Mah Kraah > the recent sanctionated wars between amarr paramilitarys and republic loyalists may help in that case
Tar Kovsky > /emote nods
Karishal Muritor > Yes, I am sorry to say but that fighting has been nothing but beneficial to our cause
Mah Kraah > as it shows that even republicans are not save from the amarr opression within the borders of our homelands
Karishal Muritor > Indeed, its a common cause to bind us all
Karishal Muritor > And perhaps the loyalists now see that there will be no peace with the Amarr
His goals and hopes are quite unambiguous.
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