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Bye bye watch lists

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Valkin Mordirc 1927	Posted - 2016.03.06 09:22:29 - [31] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: You can see wardeccers in system, why do you need to know if they're online? Need to move to another system? Use a scout. Hell, a T1 frigate should suffice, you are in highsec after all. You've obviously never actually been apart of wardeccing corp before? Unless you already know where the dec corp likes to hang you basically picking a random direction and moving towards it, not counting the hot spots like Pipes, Mission Hubs, and the ever popular Trade Hubs, which a lot of highsec corps surprisingly dont go to during a dec. Surprising I know. The after effect is either more trade hub camping which ever loves to ***** about, or more mass dec's. Which mean Mercenary corps get bigger because expenses are higher and it further stales highsec as a playground. This nerf effects more then just the nullsec blobs, and because it does a broad stroke shouldn't be the action CCP has taken. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 1150	Posted - 2016.03.06 09:48:29 - [32] - Quote I was responding to someone who claimed that this change was bad for the corps that get wardecced, not the corps that do the wardeccing. If it's both, then it balances out, doesn't it?
Luna Bowman Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2016.03.06 09:54:16 - [33] - Quote Droidster wrote: I have a friend that just joined and he is basically terrified all the time and telling me how its "not fun". If he is afraid of PVP, why is he playing a PVP centric game? Does he say that for CoD, World of tanks, or other such games as well? Some people just dont have brains...
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 356	Posted - 2016.03.06 11:14:25 - [34] - Quote Luna Bowman wrote: Droidster wrote: I have a friend that just joined and he is basically terrified all the time and telling me how its "not fun". If he is afraid of PVP, why is he playing a PVP centric game? Does he say that for CoD, World of tanks, or other such games as well? Some people just dont have brains... not that i disagree with you but..when you even look at the new eve homepage.. it shows transports in and out (beautiful btw ccp thank you) it leaves out the ships blowing up left and right coming from hub gankers though.. i guess they need to show the violence. it'll get the message across lol
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17529	Posted - 2016.03.06 11:23:21 - [35] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Yep, this is going to make for a lot of station spinning during wardecs if we can't see when wardeccers are online. The watch list is an integral tool of warfare and intelligence gathering, why the gigantic nerf bat hit to it? Come on CCP, stop making stupid decisions, your track record lately is apalling enough. Don't nerf the watch list! You do realise that now they also can't see that you're online? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Poddington Bare Angur Therapy 291	Posted - 2016.03.06 11:28:57 - [36] - Quote Malcanis wrote: You do realise that now they also can't see that you're online? Never let facts or common sense get in the way of a good rant.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 708	Posted - 2016.03.06 11:29:07 - [37] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: I was responding to someone who claimed that this change was bad for the corps that get wardecced, not the corps that do the wardeccing. If it's both, then it balances out, doesn't it? The aggressor doesn't see when his targets are online, so he will fly around a lot just to find that his war targets aren't actually logged in. The defender will not know when the enemy is online and potentially out hunting, and will have to be extra careful, even if nobody is actually around. So, yeah - in that case it balances out. But mostly in the sense that it makes the game more annoying for both sides equally. My hope is, that at least in smaller wars people will add each other anyway, hoping that the other side does so as well. - Imagine if there was a war, and nobody knew if the other side was even logged in.
Hetty Lang Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.03.06 13:04:35 - [38] - Quote Losing the ability to see when your war targets are online would be so bad if you could filter local chat If you could set local chat to display war targets at the top of the list would be useful and something that in the absence of online/offline status would be useful Imagine in a busy system like jita, who wants to spend ages scrolling through a 2500 person list just to try and work out if you have a war target in system? It's ok removing the ability to see if a person is online or off if you introduce a better way of filtering out what you dont want, as it stands atm in a busy system people are going to be at a disadvantage Sort it out please CCP
Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 197	Posted - 2016.03.06 13:11:08 - [39] - Quote The watch list was an essential tool in our capacity for resource protection and investigation activities. It was also a mainstay in our other activities regarding enforcing the EULA. I guess CCP will still be able to access this information for their own use within security and EULA work but we are being denied it within the game. Yet another bad change to add to the list and another disincentive for players to return to the game.
Chili Klaus Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.03.06 13:38:17 - [40] - Quote Like it or not, carebears won't undock anymore and will probably end up quitting out of boredom. I'm not sure CCP thought this through.
Poddington Bare Angur Therapy 291	Posted - 2016.03.06 13:45:36 - [41] - Quote Bethan Le Troix wrote: It was also a mainstay in our other activities regarding enforcing the EULA. Okay, I'll bite. What on earth are you talking about.
Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 197	Posted - 2016.03.06 13:55:46 - [42] - Quote Poddington Bare wrote: Bethan Le Troix wrote: It was also a mainstay in our other activities regarding enforcing the EULA. Okay, I'll bite. What on earth are you talking about. Hehe. It's not so much of a frequent problem nowadays as most players observe the new rules in the EULA. But when, for example, twenty accounts all come online within say fifteen seconds, it attracts our interest. We investigate further and pass on any relevant information to CCP.
Valkin Mordirc 1928	Posted - 2016.03.06 14:09:48 - [43] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: I was responding to someone who claimed that this change was bad for the corps that get wardecced, not the corps that do the wardeccing. If it's both, then it balances out, doesn't it? As said before. Sure it balances both evenly, but if you read the post you would've saw that I wasn't saying it will unbalanced things. I said it makes the style of playing for a Highsec wardeccer unbelievably tedious and completely worthless to actually try and be active in your decs by hunting down targets. It kills entirely that style of play. Making a part of your game, even more tedious than it already is. Is not good game design. I've said before, this change makes sense for the nullblocs. It however does not for Highsec and Wormhole space. For the defender. It removes all knowledge on how they can react. If they don't know if Wartargets are online they will just stay docked up for the week. Some already do with current watchlist. This will only amplify this, For highsec it's not a good idea. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Telerus Malix Warriors for Christ 4	Posted - 2016.03.06 17:26:14 - [44] - Quote I'm actually excited about this change, and I think it's something that should of been done at the start of this games inception. Did anyone honestly feel it was fair to know when other people were online with out having to do the work to find out? Of course the didn't feel like it was fair, nothing in eve is fair, and now this is fair. Should you really be able to know if a player who likes to frequent your worm hole is online so you can gank him, or let him have a chance of you not knowing he is online, so you actually have to put in some work to find out if he is, and if that's him in your system. Lot's of complaining going on here, and remember who it's from, lazy people, already crying out they will just station sit. Well have fun with that, while the rest of the men actually do something.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 4854	Posted - 2016.03.06 18:42:40 - [45] - Quote This change strikes me as "5% asked, so 95% were fcked". Personally, now I will have exactly zero chances to learn when/if old friends are back to the game. But some 5% needed this change so bad, right? In a perfect world, this feature would be implemented as a "hide online status from non-buddies" switch, rather than this retrded "hide status to everyone but buddies". Same result, very different collateral damage. But, !!CCP!! CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now". 62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?" CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
Saisin Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance 314	Posted - 2016.03.06 19:51:02 - [46] - Quote This is a great change. Outside of the overpowered benefit of free login/logout intel, no longer will players with only a few accounts will be disadvantaged in that regard while switching toons over players using dozens of accounts and/or able to run Eve 24/7 on their machine. Unfortunately, the game still allows players to ping other toons to see if they are online or not, though not in an automated way anymore. The start conversation should show the same message when either the target toon is offline or is set to reject chat invites. Right now, it says "X has rejected the invitation" in the laster case, while it says "X is either offline or otherwise unreachable." in the former case. So it will still be easy to ping a toon to see oif they are online or offline. In the same vein, fhe fleet invite message should be changed so that if the toon is offline or already in a fleet, it gives out the same mesage text. rather than giving out "Invitee offline - X is offline and thus of no value to your fleet" when the toon is offline. Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XI "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. Freedom fighters, unite with Chao3
Ashterothi The Order of Thelemic Ascension 370	Posted - 2016.03.06 19:52:53 - [47] - Quote The arguments that people make to keep the watchlist are exactly my reasons why it is best to remove it. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Indahmawar Fazmarai 4854	Posted - 2016.03.06 20:24:17 - [48] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: The arguments that people make to keep the watchlist are exactly my reasons why it is best to remove it. Yes, go figure, just today a player I hadn't seen in months has logged in and I've learned of it, so I've invited her to our chat channel. Absolutely terrible, until when will we suffer the injustice of knowing that a buddy is back just because we added him to watchlist years ago? Next tuesday, you say? CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now". 62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?" CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
Alea Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 229	Posted - 2016.03.06 21:28:17 - [49] - Quote Droidster wrote: I think the main issue here is not really the watch lists, it's that EVE is already too pvp centric as it is and the watch list thing is disturbing the balance even more. I have a friend that just joined and he is basically terrified all the time and telling me how its "not fun". I try explaining to him that nobody is going to bother to blow up his newbie ship, but it doesn't help. This guy is not a "carebear". He always plays PVP in other games. Most of the ship destruction in the game is in empire which is not the way it is supposed to be. If the pvp balance were less extreme, I think people would be concerned about the watchlist issue a lot less, but as things are the let's-kill-every-autopilot and wardec every single 3-player corp in EVE mentality is driving people away from the game. Its at the point where there are more wolves than there are elk. Wardeccers chose to pick on highsec players as it's pvp on super easy mode, tell your friend to get into a good null sec corp he'll be much safer there once he learns how to move around. For the pvp side of Eve I feel it's being nerfed too much, life in New Eden is much easier for low SP players than it was back in my day, plus you can pay to win now so there is no excuse for not having the skillpoints needed to run a good tank. Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Alea Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 229	Posted - 2016.03.06 21:33:44 - [50] - Quote Droidster wrote: Whoa, whoa, whoa. You mean there is PVP content going on in hisec. I've been in a 3 player corp with my alts for years. How do I get these "people" to wardec me? Is there a form I have to fill out or something? Dec the wardeccers, but if you're competent at pvp they'll just dock up if they can't greatly outnumber you. Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Alea Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 229	Posted - 2016.03.06 21:39:44 - [51] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Personally, now I will have exactly zero chances to learn when/if old friends are back to the game. That's about the only reason why I'll miss the watch list. Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 744	Posted - 2016.03.07 02:17:49 - [52] - Quote Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: People have been asking for watch lists to be removed for aaaaaaaaages, now CCP are actually doing it people are upset. Well, be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Maybe you missed the CSM notes where noone could create a compelling argument in favour of the status quo? Hyperbole looks good on paper but it doesn't hold much weight. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 744	Posted - 2016.03.07 02:20:59 - [53] - Quote Alea wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Personally, now I will have exactly zero chances to learn when/if old friends are back to the game. That's about the only reason why I'll miss the watch list. Tbh if you weren't in contact that much before why would it matter now? It's like people telling me they use facebook to stay in touch with their friends from school aka people not interesting enough to meet for a beer at the local watering hole but interesting enough to Like their random quips and photos. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Mina Sebiestar Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate 1055	Posted - 2016.03.07 03:41:42 - [54] - Quote Don't find this troubling hope local is next. Typhoon Fleet Issue SOE skin for the win.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 744	Posted - 2016.03.07 06:53:40 - [55] - Quote Mina Sebiestar wrote: Don't find this troubling hope local is next. Originally local in nullsec becomes sov-holders only. Information advantage to the people holding the space. Local in empire/lowsec is fine although if you wanted to make the case that local degrades in lowsec (ie names disappear if they stay in system a long time/dont talk for a while) then I could see that argument and probably throw my +1 at it. PVPers talk like its hard to find **** to shoot at but really if we're totally honest this game practically spoon feeds the hunter information. If GFC could be scanned down bet your ass that zkill would light up with 500k of those on day 1 too. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 347	Posted - 2016.03.07 07:33:26 - [56] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Ashterothi wrote: The arguments that people make to keep the watchlist are exactly my reasons why it is best to remove it. Yes, go figure, just today a player I hadn't seen in months has logged in and I've learned of it, so I've invited her to our chat channel. Absolutely terrible, until when will we suffer the injustice of knowing that a buddy is back just because we added him to watchlist years ago? Next tuesday, you say? if you two are really buddies then you should have been in his watchlist, yes? coming this new release, you'll still see him go online, so, what's the problem? Just Add Water
Morgan Agrivar Peace.Keepers 297	Posted - 2016.03.07 08:34:50 - [57] - Quote I would like to start off by thanking CCP for sending me in a different direction from what I thought I would go. After starting this game two and a half years ago, I have pretty much done everything in game in one way or another. But the one 'job' I absolutely loved doing was high security wardeccing, which I mostly did solo. I thoroughly enjoyed hunting down my war targets and engaging them in glorious combat. I won most of them but have suffered defeat...and loved it. And even my war targets learned a thing or two on what I taught them after the war was over, like putting your enemy corporation members on a watch list (from Evewho) and to pay attention to it at all times. The two integral parts to my profession was the watch list and the locater agent. The third part was using neutral alts, but I mostly distained the use of them. To me, personally, it wasn't really solo. I did use a neutral alt to take out a Skiff but that was pretty much the only kill I used a neutral alt in. The thrill of coming into local and seeing them there, gauging where they possibly might be and get the jump on them before they realize I was there was intoxicating. But I knew my war targets could have the same access and I had to be a bit more careful while in pursuit. Most of the time, I was outnumbered but that did not matter to me whatsoever. But with the new change coming, that part of my Eve career is over. I don't find hub camping all that thrilling, and gate camping is the way to see if they are online when they show up in local. I personally don't like the change at all, but since CCP is going forward with it, then it is time to move towards another direction. I made no isk whatsoever on my high security wars and that did not matter to me at all. It was my personal isk sink... Seeing the change coming, I bitterly decided to hang up my small guns and go into wormholes again. It doesn't provide the same thrill that I had hunting down my moving war targets, but I am back with a corporation I love to fly with. I am hoping that this will renew my love of this game. I have invested so much time and effort into Morgan that I cannot think of just giving it up. Hell, I am even writing her background as a story to keep myself immersed in Eve Online. Sadly, my stories in the Pirate thread in Crime and Punishment has to come to an end since I am no longer doing that anymore. But I will keep pushing and see what is ahead... Morgan o/ This would cure me of the fear...
Dak Hakin Frogly Technologies 2	Posted - 2016.03.07 10:26:16 - [58] - Quote Its free intel that is going away for you, sure. But, its also free intel going away for anyone that might have you on their watch list. I think this will be an interesting change
Smitty Uitra Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 14	Posted - 2016.03.07 11:16:34 - [59] - Quote I agree that the watchlist is free Intel but it's only letting me know if I'm going to actually play Eve today. If I log on and there are no wartargets online then I'm going to go play a different game because I don't have any content today. It's not like the watchlist tells you what system or region of space someone is in. You still have to run locates, send an alt, get eyes on them and still that doesn't guarantee a fight. It all starts with knowing if anyone is online. If that's gone then what's the point of logging in? Let's see I have 600-1000 wartargets. Let me start running locates on someone that may or may not be online send eyes 30 jumps only to not know if the person moved or never was online. I'd almost rather gatecamp lowsec and just kill everything that comes in but CCP will probably do away with that soon too since someone in c&p is crying about that. The other side is that people on the receiving end of wardecs also use watchlists to make sure no one is hunting them while they are afk mining, running missions\ sites and hauling their crap to hubs. Not all high sec mercs hub camp and sit in the pipe all day. Some mercs look down at that because we like the thrill of the hunt. Sorry for the rant. Just my $.02
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 3624	Posted - 2016.03.07 11:41:51 - [60] - Quote Droidster wrote: Wardeccers chose to pick on highsec players as it's pvp on super easy mode Nope. Try again. Hint: If you've never actually engaged in an activity, don't presume to understand the motivations behind it. For example, I don't speculate on what drives people to engage in sov mechanics that sound incredibly tedious to me. I'm sure they find it rewarding for various reasons, but i don't see the draw. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

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