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t2 lottery - change must be done

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Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.02.10 13:53:00 - [31] the T2 BPO Lottery should reset every five to six months and rerelease all of them again, basicly this could account for people who quit EVE, accidental clicking of 'Trash', cargo destroyed. However you make BPOs into what is called in other MMORPGs a "Lore" item which means you can only have one of that type. basicly if you already have a Cerberus BPO for example you can never win another one when the lottery resets.
Virida Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.10 13:57:00 - [32] My sugestion is simple: make the current T2 BPO's limited runs, as 100-200 or something, and let the T2 BPO lotter make long run(but limited) BP's. The result is the blueprints generated would be sent out faster, and the ones knowing statistical methods will get theirs, but its of less importance than a eternal lasting moneymaking machine. Add the new invention system, and EVE got many ways of getting the ships, breaking all attempts of "monopolies" forever. and letting devs have full control of eventual inflation of Tech2 ships, so this game dont end as a lot of old mmo's, with obese economies who dont look as anything.
Majutsu Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.10 13:57:00 - [33] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 10/02/2007 11:29:47 Originally by: Majutsu Edited by: Majutsu on 10/02/2007 11:05:17 Lottery giving ME10 1000 run BPC's Still a very nice thing to win and much profit for the winner, not a money mountain forver. When the 1000 runs are used they're reseeded through the lottery No more T2 BPO's, anywhere, ever. All the ones in current existence converted. Horrible idea. You would end up with higher prices on t2 mods/ships that way. People farming the bpc's not to build from, but to sell. People who buy bpc's to produce end up charge higher prices on the end product to consumer (being you). Would end up with less than stable supply to market as well, which would increase prices due to higher demand. I don't believe that would happen and there's no reason to think the prices would go up. Of course people would buy the BPC's, it could also see T2 items being produced where the current BPO owner isn't bothering anymore (ie got lots of money can only be bothered to build every now and again or quit game, BPO just sits in hangar). Personally I think this we'd see higher T2 supply. I'm not saying it's the best idea, I do think it's better than the current one.
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2007.02.10 14:32:00 - [34] First: Please don¦t mix the current problems with Dev misconduct with the problems of T2 and specially the T2 BPO lottery. I don¦t think that the lottery is more abuseable than any other system. T2 BPOs: The biggest problem is, that T2 BPOs are too worthful. There is no real good method of distributing T2 BPOs in a fair way. Either it prefers the rich people too much (auction) or it only leads to grinding. The lottery is still the best method, while it has also it weaknesses. Like Virida (and many more in other threads) already wrote: The best solution will be to change all existing T2 BPOs into high-run BPCs. New BPCs will only come from inventions. For this several features have to be changed or tuned: ) T2-lottery: abolished ) Research agents: reformed, they have to offer datacores, but the way to accumulate RPs has to be revised. ) Contracts: We need a much better way of selling and purchasing contracts. How about a BPC-browser (similar to the market) within the contract-system? ) BPCs: It should be possible to improve the ML and PL of an BPC. *) Research-slots: Both the research-slots of the stations and the number off concurrent research jobs of a char have to be revised (increased).
Naskaya Elegance Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.02.10 17:03:00 - [35] The ideas that if T2 BPOs were available on the market, prices would drop dramatically, and T1 would be unused, are false ideas, maintained by those who have a direct interest in that affair. Do you see Typhoon selling for 10M ? Do you see Megathron selling for 25M ? Are they T2 level ? No. T1 would be become obsolete ? That's a joke. Not everyone has skills to pilot a hac, do you know ? So the need for T1 ships will be always present. T1 can be built from basic mineral also, T2.. from a bunch of hi-tech materials, not available everywhere. Not to mention the assurance available on T1 ship, not T2. Give me others arguments, i'm curious.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.02.10 17:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Naskaya The ideas that if T2 BPOs were available on the market, prices would drop dramatically, and T1 would be unused, are false ideas, maintained by those who have a direct interest in that affair. Do you see Typhoon selling for 10M ? Do you see Megathron selling for 25M ? Are they T2 level ? No. T1 would be become obsolete ? That's a joke. Not everyone has skills to pilot a hac, do you know ? So the need for T1 ships will be always present. T1 can be built from basic mineral also, T2.. from a bunch of hi-tech materials, not available everywhere. Not to mention the assurance available on T1 ship, not T2. Give me others arguments, i'm curious. EvE isnt "undercutting online. Seriously, with this idea stuff would sell at build cost + a few isk and all the t1 builders would have nothing to aspire to. No holy grail to lust after. No carrot dangling infront of them. Give everybody ingame reasonably easy access to everything and they will see it all, do it all and leave. For Gods sake leave the aspirational element in there.
Lygos Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.10 17:32:00 - [37] Cartels are good. Absence of risk is bad. There shouldn't be ANY T2 bpos in highsec. Even T1 manufacturers that want to improve their margins shouldn't be based out of highsec. Empire taxes should be worse grief than pirates. --- T2 Risk \| Corp Divisions
mesirass	Posted - 2007.02.10 18:49:00 - [38] pre-revelations oveur stated t2 bpos were to be seeded and dropped to improve t2 circulation, iv checked my rp agent constantly since then and the same amount and type of t2 bpos still show up on the agents, are any dropping? i also noticed a market change when invention started to take hold, but have seen very little change in the t2 market due to more t2 bpos supposedly being dropped, doh rocket scientist something isnt cocha.....
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.10 19:15:00 - [39] Originally by: mesirass pre-revelations oveur stated t2 bpos were to be seeded and dropped to improve t2 circulation, iv checked my rp agent constantly since then and the same amount and type of t2 bpos still show up on the agents, are any dropping? i also noticed a market change when invention started to take hold, but have seen very little change in the t2 market due to more t2 bpos supposedly being dropped, doh rocket scientist something isnt cocha..... Oh there is new t2 bpo's being seeded. But that doesnt mean the lucky owners of them want to go into charity. As with business else, people try get the most out of what they can offer, anything else doesnt make much sense. Influx from invention atm can't really be expected as invention is borked big time. Before the run nerf on invention you could see the prices on expanded cargo hold 2 and cap recharger 2 and some other modules where going down somewhat, but I think most of that halted now. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Par'Gellen Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Oh there is new t2 bpo's being seeded. But that doesnt mean the lucky owners of them want to go into charity. As with business else, people try get the most out of what they can offer, anything else doesnt make much sense. Influx from invention atm can't really be expected as invention is borked big time. Before the run nerf on invention you could see the prices on expanded cargo hold 2 and cap recharger 2 and some other modules where going down somewhat, but I think most of that halted now. Agreed. Invention was decent until they hosed the runs. Maybe there should be an investigation into whether or not the dev that screwed Invention to hell by borking the runs only did so because he has buddies in game that profit from it. I can't imagine a sane reason for doing it otherwise. It was just plain stupid. --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
Par'Gellen Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:55:00 - [41] Edited by: Par''Gellen on 10/02/2007 22:51:26 Double post? WTF? --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:48:00 - [42] Why not just allow agent offers to continue and sell BPC's on the market as well. Lottery continues for BPO's and people not willing to be ripped off on covert ops cloaks any more can just buy the BPC. I think Snow Balls proved CCP doesn't care how harsh the solution is. signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!
Sonos SAGD	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:56:00 - [43] why not have the t2 bpo amount relate to the number of skill books sold for that item (on ships anyways) so if there are 8 vagabond bpo for 8000 pilots and they can only make 1 a day thats only 2920 vaga's made a year for 8000 people
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.02.11 02:28:00 - [44] Should implement a second lottery with a higher frequency and BPC rewards rather than BPOs that way theres less hogging of BPOs and everyone has a nicer chance of T2 production.
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:02:00 - [45] when I buy t2 stuff I try not to lose them if I need to risk losing them I make sure I have enough money to back up the loss just have to suck it up until devs finally come to their senses.
Dravin Dread	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Genericforumalt Also putting them on the market is the WORST IDEA EVER. It would pretty much invalidate an entire career path/months of skill training. CCP knows this and this is why it would never happen, ever happen. It's simply too radical a change, even for CCP. The system that we have now is the best we can get without a horrible grind. All those skill points and time have already been invalidated. Invalidated by recent events. As for what would "never happen" ... recent events were supposed to "never happen" either.
Father Weebles North Face Force	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Genericforumalt If they were seeded onto the market and only limited by moon mining yeild they would still become far too common, and T1 would be made completly worthless for pvp and other activities. Not anymore "worthless" than it is now.... "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
Genericforumalt Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Dravin Dread Originally by: Genericforumalt Also putting them on the market is the WORST IDEA EVER. It would pretty much invalidate an entire career path/months of skill training. CCP knows this and this is why it would never happen, ever happen. It's simply too radical a change, even for CCP. The system that we have now is the best we can get without a horrible grind. All those skill points and time have already been invalidated. Invalidated by recent events. As for what would "never happen" ... recent events were supposed to "never happen" either. I don't see how the recent events have any bearing on people ***ing about expensive T2 prices. Originally by:** Father Weebles Originally by: Genericforumalt If they were seeded onto the market and only limited by moon mining yeild they would still become far too common, and T1 would be made completly worthless for pvp and other activities. Not anymore "worthless" than it is now.... I mean T1 as in T1 ships mainly.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08 This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread. It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused. The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further. A new and improved system must be installed asap. I have always been a fan of simply seeding T2 BPOs to market at huge prices, OR, making invention create T2 BPOs with negitive me/pe. The Invention part would work far better. CCP could up the materials needed to balance it. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
TorquePSA Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:28:00 - [50] Edited by: TorquePSA on 11/02/2007 03:27:48 Edited by: TorquePSA on 11/02/2007 03:27:07 I don't really see a problem with the lottery system. I just don't think people like something they have no control over. I've been playing EVE on and off for 3 years, and just this week got my first t2 BPO from my agent. I never really got upset in all that time that I didn't get one, it's a lottery and that's how they work. I've never hit the Powerball jackpot either, and I've played that lottery much longer than 3 years. I waited and eventually got one, and from one of the worst agents in EVE no less (that's right lvl 1, quality -18) so appearantly you really can get a BPO from any agent. I recommend doing research in a field other than starship engineering (which everyone and their brother is in) and go on with playing EVE. Think of t2 BPOs as a stroke of luck, not an unalienable right. If you're lucky, some day you'll open up your mail and see "We've had a breakthrough!". Then comes the glorious life of industry and the valorous life of a carebear, living to service that little blue box (which isn't even special looking itself). I do think it would be a good idea though to make it a little more transparent. There should be a list somewhere that you can see at least when a BPO is awarded and the NPC agent it was awarded to. I think the main problem with current state is that with players being completely blacked-out to the whole process you really can't fault them for thinking dirty dealings are going on, which wasn't paranoid of them at all, we now find out.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:33:00 - [51] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08 This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread. It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused. The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further. A new and improved system must be installed asap. You mean the t20 lottery right? Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:36:00 - [52] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/02/2007 03:32:31 Originally by: Soulita It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused. Baloney. Any system is potentially very easily dev-abuseable. If the core system mechanic works - and I have yet to hear alternatives which are not dramatically biased and unfair - then there is no reason to change it. //Maya
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:38:00 - [53] i've said it a hundred times if i've said it once. i've heard others say it. only thing i haven't heard is one good reason not to do it. (thats good reason, not blah blah blah) NO MORE BPO LOTTERIES. INSTEAD, BPC LOTTERIES, MORE LOTTERIES AND MORE OFTEN! These would be high run bpc's. One win and your looking at building 50 ships or a 100 mods. Only arguments against the above is probably gonna come from ppl that would be set to lose isk on their current money printers. Oh god! Now no one has a corner on the market. People will actually be able to reap real research rewards! i think i just peed a little. wow, wouldn't it be cool if CCP fixed stuff like this? You know, with logical and simple solutions like the above? Also by eliminating eternal rewards out of one lottery, you minimize the impact of any future abuse of blueprints (as they wouldn't last FOREVER and be able to build unlimited runs!). talk about a win - win situation. of course, this is providing CCP doesn't like monopolies, illogical risk vs reward systems, imbalance ingame, etc etc etc.... basically the whole 'top 3% characters hold most the isk in the game' kinda thing.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.02.11 03:40:00 - [54] Originally by: Maya Rkell I have yet to hear alternatives which are not dramatically biased and unfair - then there is no reason to change it. see above. I KNOW you had to have seen this before. and if not from me, from others. gotta love ppl that just ignore things they dont wanna hear
Genericforumalt Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.02.11 04:16:00 - [55] Originally by: Rells Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08 This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread. It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused. The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further. A new and improved system must be installed asap. You mean the t20 lottery right? hahaha, zing.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 04:38:00 - [56] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Maya Rkell I have yet to hear alternatives which are not dramatically biased and unfair - then there is no reason to change it. see above. I KNOW you had to have seen this before. and if not from me, from others. gotta love ppl that just ignore things they dont wanna hear No, ignore things which as a BASE would at least triple the price of T2 items on the market. Just because you don't look at the true impact of your proposed changes.. //Maya
Arushia Nova Labs	Posted - 2007.02.11 06:51:00 - [57] Originally by: Genericforumalt Invention is the way around this "insurmountible barrier", true it might not be the best for ships but I hear it works well with modules now. and dare I ask why players who start the game after people deserve to be on the same level as people who played for years? Too bad about the near-insurmountable barrier of getting those **** data interfaces that are required for it.
Wega Noir Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.11 06:54:00 - [58] A lottery, by nature is about the WORST way to distribute anything. CCP really dropped the ball when they thought that one up.
Yelina	Posted - 2007.02.11 07:04:00 - [59] Originally by: HankMurphy i've said it a hundred times if i've said it once. i've heard others say it. only thing i haven't heard is one good reason not to do it. (thats good reason, not blah blah blah) NO MORE BPO LOTTERIES. INSTEAD, BPC LOTTERIES, MORE LOTTERIES AND MORE OFTEN! These would be high run bpc's. One win and your looking at building 50 ships or a 100 mods. Only arguments against the above is probably gonna come from ppl that would be set to lose isk on their current money printers. Oh god! Now no one has a corner on the market. People will actually be able to reap real research rewards! i think i just peed a little. wow, wouldn't it be cool if CCP fixed stuff like this? You know, with logical and simple solutions like the above? Also by eliminating eternal rewards out of one lottery, you minimize the impact of any future abuse of blueprints (as they wouldn't last FOREVER and be able to build unlimited runs!). talk about a win - win situation. of course, this is providing CCP doesn't like monopolies, illogical risk vs reward systems, imbalance ingame, etc etc etc.... basically the whole 'top 3% characters hold most the isk in the game' kinda thing. /Signed. BPO Lotteries are not good at all.. maybe i would go for the Research Points trade for BPC¦s with variable runs depending on agent level.
The Judge The Eternal Knights	Posted - 2007.02.11 12:23:00 - [60] As i said earlier i've won a t2 bpo but even before that i thought the lottery was the fairest and best system there is to use. I'm sure alot of you complaining would change their minds in a second as well if you suddenly won one in the lottery, it would be the best system then wouldn't it ?

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