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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.02.10 06:15:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08
This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread.
It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused.
The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further.
A new and improved system must be installed asap.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.02.10 07:10:00 -
[2]
any suggestions that both cover a base supply while ensuring constant growth?
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.10 07:14:00 -
[3]
I posted a long time ago with a very extensive idea, as well as RP justifcation, but i cant be screwed finding that post.
So basically... Sell BPCs with negative ME and PE to allow everyone in on it... it will at least cap prices...
And dont make people run your **** house missions to get access to invention or the BPOs... missions are crap... the end.
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 07:56:00 -
[4]
Personally I'd favour something with some gameplay for the person doing the research, that had as little of a chance-based element in it as possible.
I actually wrote up a "blackprint" idea for reverse engineering before Invention came out, will see if I can find it.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2007.02.10 08:15:00 -
[5]
In light of the recent revelations by the dev staff, and the fact they allowed the BPOs remain inside a major alliance for 7 months after discovering the wrongdoing shows that clearly there is something wrong with the system.
Invention is not a good enough solution for the current trouble, it takes to long and it doesn't produce the best results, at least not enough where you could compete using them.
I believe what should happen is that it is time to seed the open market with all the t2 BPOs. I say this realizing some might oppose it but even the devs have stated in a few places they consider tech 2 to be the standard now. If its the standard it should be available for use.
When tech 3 is released it should be done entirely through invention, and invention should be improved to make it more viable.
There is no way that anyone will have faith in the current lottery, given the revelations that have occured. I can't really think of a better idea.
Keep in mind that t2 stuff takes a lot more to build as well and possession of a BPO does not guarantee you'd be able to actually produce using it.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Za Link
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Posted - 2007.02.10 08:16:00 -
[6]
You are trying to use the situation for your own advantage?
He has used a little database trick to get what he wanted (like an Event guy could make appear any ships he wanted 2 years ago), this has nothing to do with the lottery.
Even if you would keep calling the lottery unfair for the next 5 years, it wouldn't change a thing. Look at the wonderful invention for therapi! |
Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.10 08:18:00 -
[7]
How many Dev's do you think own T2 BPO's that they got legit? I'm not talking about what T20 did but just the fact that almost all of them have been playing a long time and they are pretty well informed about the game.
The fact that there was a public admission restores some faith. But the whole situation brings up a lot of thoughts about subconscious decisions they might make.
When they sit there discussing changes to the T2 BPO system are they really objective? Do they even know if they are really objective?
T2 BPO's are one of those no-brainers that people looking in can spot as obviously flawed. Yet the only internal attempt to fix that flaw has been invention and it's not even really designed to fix the fact that some people won a lottery and got an isk printer.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.10 09:51:00 -
[8]
To reply to some of the above posts, probably one of the reasons because the lottery will not change is because the Dev fear to get an unfair advantage.
They will know for start how a new system will work, and the ones interested in research will make the "right" decisions on what to do with little chance of chosing the less efficent path. And as some of the player base will certanly do the same "right" decision, based on the availabe informations, it is not acceptable to ask them to artificially make the wrong ones to be "fair".
Even more they know that the decision they make in implementing a new system will be influenced by the game fields they like more (see as most new things in game are for 0.0 and Alliancs, not for single players and high sec.), so often they will refrain to change wat so far has woreked, albeit not so well.
If they would change the system and for fairness reasons refrain from partecipate in a new T2 BPO diffusion system, again the net effect would be biased, as the only feedback would be from the forum, so, usually, not the people finding the changed system fair or efficent, but the ones finding it negative, wrong, ecc.
I am partecipating in the T2 BPO lotto, got nothing so far, but I am really unsure on the option of a new distribuition system.
T2 BPO on market?
If the prices are paragonable at the current T2 BPO prices, they will be way out of my puchase power, and that of most players, so we will be even more cut out than before:
if the price is lower, the ones that have brought T2 BPO get the short stick.
T2 BPC on sale? A bit better, but it will touch both invention and BPO coping.
T2 BPC for RP? that seem the best option, will cut the usefulness of invention, but seem the most harmless one.
A bit of rambling, but I hope it clear that there isn't a easy solution both to the T2 BPO problem (it exist, as we all know), and the larger problem related to the Dev involvement in the game.
Again on a side note: I feel that the Dev need to partecipate in the game, as they need to experience it from the point of view of the gamer to see what the problem are and what can and should be done.
That can sometime create problems, but if it is not done the developement of the game will be stunted.
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Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.02.10 10:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 10/02/2007 10:39:01
The solution is really pretty simple. Put every BPO in the game on the market and adjust the prices accordingly to fit the estimated target spread and growth.
Edit:
Oh and give those with research points a discount so that they are not worthless then get rid of the lottery completely and change research agents to fill a different role.
It's never to late to fix a broken system.
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CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:04:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Par'Gellen
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 10/02/2007 10:39:01
The solution is really pretty simple. Put every BPO in the game on the market and adjust the prices accordingly to fit the estimated target spread and growth.
Edit:
Oh and give those with research points a discount so that they are not worthless then get rid of the lottery completely and change research agents to fill a different role.
It's never to late to fix a broken system.
I totally agree 1000000000% Get rid of the lottery and put the BPOs on the market. |
Brutor Shaun
Minmatar
Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:06:00 -
[11]
Agents give out BPCs. The more Rp you pay, the higher runs and better ME/PE.
This could be implemented at the same time as the LP 'shop' idea that was around a while ago. Rather than an agent saying 'Do you want this?' he would say 'You have a choice of these'. You get to pick how much LP/RP you want to spend.
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Majutsu
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Majutsu on 10/02/2007 11:05:17
Lottery giving ME10 1000 run BPC's
Still a very nice thing to win and much profit for the winner, not a money mountain forver. When the 1000 runs are used they're reseeded through the lottery
No more T2 BPO's, anywhere, ever. All the ones in current existence converted.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:23:00 -
[13]
In my opinion, the way to get a T2 BPO must remain the same since ppl have invested a lot of rl money and time to make it work the way it does now....
T3, we'll see.
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Ky Vatta
Caldari
Empire Mining and Industrial Taskforce
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:31:00 -
[14]
 How about Agents giving out BPO`s for LPs??
To prevent people just getting them through excessive combat missions, people would have to get high LPs from non-combat mission agents as well, to even things out....
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:32:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 10/02/2007 11:29:47
Originally by: Majutsu
Edited by: Majutsu on 10/02/2007 11:05:17
Lottery giving ME10 1000 run BPC's
Still a very nice thing to win and much profit for the winner, not a money mountain forver. When the 1000 runs are used they're reseeded through the lottery
No more T2 BPO's, anywhere, ever. All the ones in current existence converted.
Horrible idea. You would end up with higher prices on t2 mods/ships that way.
People farming the bpc's not to build from, but to sell. People who buy bpc's to produce end up charge higher prices on the end product to consumer (being you). Would end up with less than stable supply to market as well, which would increase prices due to higher demand.
For those that want T2 bpo's to be sold on the open market. Sure, I believe some ship bpo's have been auctioned for 70b+ and even more. If those was the prices to be used on the prints I wouldn't mind. But then we would get a cry about only the rich could afford them.
The "lottery" with R&D is imho the best solution there is. I seen quite new players with very few rp's get a bpo, and I know very old players with lots of RP who havent even got a offer for one. And yes, there is those that got lucky many times, but then ask yourself why that is?
People who have multiple accounts with all characters on them doing R&D, and working for R&D agents that hardly anyone else touch. When that agent get picked for a draw you got a good chance at being lucky. Than work for an agent tons of other players does too.
Sometimes go with the best R&D agents, that give the most RP etc isn't always the best choice.
Beisde, we got invention now, you can spend some isk and effort and build your own t2 mods/ships. Yes the state of invention isn't perfect, but if more people explore that path and voice their opinions and concerns, maybe the devs would pay a bit more attention to it too.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Naskaya
Elegance
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:37:00 -
[16]
All BPO should be on market.
Price & skills to use them, are sufficient enough to limit the use of T2.
And let's face it : like the bookmark/'warp to 0' story, the only ones hurted by this,
are those who own them before the evolution. And in the case of T2 BPO, I think they have made enough money from them.
To fix research agents, they could give points on ME research, also.
No more conspiracy, no more luck about BPO.
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Enigmier
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:46:00 -
[17]
agrred with poster further above,
get rid of bpo`s and make r&d agents off big run bpc`s, few hundred for ships and maybe 1000 for modules,
will keep the market alive, give more people a chance to compete or even become self sufficient for a period,
the way it is atm is a monopoly, those who get 1 decent BPO can print isk, from there the upward spiral of profit and the ability to aquire more t2 bpo`s with isk continues,
the newer play will never get chance to compete.
lottery is a crap system,
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Fracking Beach
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
In light of the recent revelations by the dev staff, and the fact they allowed the BPOs remain inside a major alliance for 7 months after discovering the wrongdoing shows that clearly there is something wrong with the system.
QFT. I don't understand why CCP has not commented on why the BPOs were not removed in June 2006 when the whole incident was discovered. |
Genericforumalt
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.02.10 12:05:00 -
[19]
it's fine, just wait till T3 will come out with reverse engineering and all that jazz, then there will be a lot less focus on the lottery.
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teeze
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Posted - 2007.02.10 12:37:00 -
[20]
I swore I would never reply to a T2 BPO lottery thread, because they are all just tin foil hat discussions normally, but I actually have a suggestion that might hit middle ground and please a lot of people....
What about if a lot of LP offers were made for all ships where you could convert your cyclone to a sleip, or your EMP s to quake, a lot like the "freed slaves" issues. You already can I believe with things like wolves.
This would introduce more offers that would please the missioners, rather than just heading for that fleet tempy, what next, oh another fleet tempy.... hence protecting the value of them. It would not adversely effect the BPO values themselves to a major degree as the ability to produce on demand exactly what you want is still invaluble.
PvPers would be able to buy off market easier, but of the LP figures were high enough (i.e. adjusted for curent sales figures on a regular bais) so you were not getting a munnin for the same LP as a +3 plant. This could also be extended to storylines to add variety, and maybe even agent time reward payments "complete this Blockade within 3 hours and get a LAR II)... there is so much T2 gear that it would add interest again. It would also dilute the supply of implants flooding to the market, stabilising this aspect too.
It keeps the balance of the producer having a lot of control, but also with there being an alternative source onto the market.
Just my two-penneth worth. whadda ya think?
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Steve Holt
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.10 12:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Genericforumalt
Edited by: Genericforumalt on 10/02/2007 12:06:13Also putting them on the market is the WORST IDEA EVER. It would pretty much invalidate an entire career path/months of skill training. CCP knows this and this is why it would never happen, ever happen. It's simply too radical a change, even for CCP. The system that we have now is the best we can get without a horrible grind.
The lottery is already the WORST IDEA EVER to begin with so spare me.
If the BPOs were available on the market how would that invalidate months of skill training? You still need the same skills to produce a T2 item and components whether the BPO is given or purchased.
If T2 BPOs were seeded, corps and alliances would actually fight in lowsec/0.0 over valuable moons/reaction chains which would be worth a lot more money and be more tightly contested. Mercoxit miners might actually have a market to sell to! Fancy that!
Existing T2 BPOs would not become worthless. Those with BPOs already have reaped their benefits for quite some time, and received them for free. The market price for T2 BPOs should be in the billions like capital BPOs, a major alliance/corp investment, it would make a good isk sink. If someone offered me a free Dreadnought BPO for just a little one time faction grinding, I'd be pretty happy. You may not receive 50 billion for it, but frankly that is indicative of a horribly broken game mechanic.
You wouldn't even need to seed them to the market, you could merely make them lp rewards just like faction battleships for every other mission runner. Research skills would help you boost the lp that you get from running missions for your agent, as a political connections skillbook would.
Invention could still be kept around for t3/cosmos/faction stuff.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.10 12:49:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/02/2007 12:47:05
Originally by: Steve Holt
Originally by: Genericforumalt
Also putting them on the market is the WORST IDEA EVER. It would pretty much invalidate an entire career path/months of skill training. CCP knows this and this is why it would never happen, ever happen. It's simply too radical a change, even for CCP. The system that we have now is the best we can get without a horrible grind.
The lottery is already the WORST IDEA EVER to begin with so spare me.
A lot of people seem to forget why the lottery, a player-designed idea was instituted.
Its because there were only three obvious ways to distribute BPOs in a limited manner.
1. Auction. This way, only the rich would have any chance, and everyone else would be screwed.
2. Grindfest. I don't think I have to explain why having to "race to 3 million LP" or some crap like that would suck.
3. Lottery. Totally random, giving everyone a chance to get BPOs.
Anyone who really thinks 1) or 2) would be a better option is crazy.
There is no such thing as an "abusable" system; every system for distributing anything is by definition abusable if you're a dev, because a dev can do anything in the game world. Blaming the current problems on the lottery system are absolutely silly and stupid, because the dev didn't even use the lottery system to get the items, he spawned them 
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Genericforumalt
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.02.10 12:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Steve Holt
Originally by: Genericforumalt
Edited by: Genericforumalt on 10/02/2007 12:06:13Also putting them on the market is the WORST IDEA EVER. It would pretty much invalidate an entire career path/months of skill training. CCP knows this and this is why it would never happen, ever happen. It's simply too radical a change, even for CCP. The system that we have now is the best we can get without a horrible grind.
The lottery is already the WORST IDEA EVER to begin with so spare me.
If the BPOs were available on the market how would that invalidate months of skill training? You still need the same skills to produce a T2 item and components whether the BPO is given or purchased.
Research project management is a long skill to train :colbert:
Quote:
If T2 BPOs were seeded, corps and alliances would actually fight in lowsec/0.0 over valuable moons/reaction chains which would be worth a lot more money and be more tightly contested. Mercoxit miners might actually have a market to sell to! Fancy that!
If they were seeded onto the market and only limited by moon mining yeild they would still become far too common, and T1 would be made completly worthless for pvp and other activities.
Quote:
Existing T2 BPOs would not become worthless. Those with BPOs already have reaped their benefits for quite some time, and received them for free. The market price for T2 BPOs should be in the billions like capital BPOs, a major alliance/corp investment, it would make a good isk sink. If someone offered me a free Dreadnought BPO for just a little one time faction grinding, I'd be pretty happy. You may not receive 50 billion for it, but frankly that is indicative of a horribly broken game mechanic.
They might not become worthless but their prices would decrease substantially and a lot of decent people who researched for years would see their system pilliaged by the same people who think selling a ship for below mineral build cost is a good idea. The same thing that happened to T1 production would happen to T2 production.
Quote:
You wouldn't even need to seed them to the market, you could merely make them lp rewards just like faction battleships for every other mission runner. Research skills would help you boost the lp that you get from running missions for your agent, as a political connections skillbook would.
:psyduck: NO GRIND PLEASE, K THX.
Quote:
Invention could still be kept around for t3/cosmos/faction stuff.
in summation it's fine :colbert: .
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Astarte Nosferatu
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.02.10 12:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
I totally agree 1000000000% Get rid of the lottery and put the BPOs on the market.
Only if said BPO's are rediculously overpriced so only a handfull of people can produce T2. T2 is meant for the rich and the veterans, not for your average Joe.
I'm personally sick and tired of seeing all the whines about how T2 should be easy to get and cheap to buy. Seems it's only getting worse due to all the kids that crave for instant gratification who are joining.
On second thought, it's a great idea, let's just spawn every ship and every module on the market for 1 isk, ban non-consentual PvP, hell, ban PvP all together (yes, with PvP I mean every single aspect of Player versus Player, like competing on the market etc...) and let's all just go mine or kill some NPC's.
Oh, another great idea, let's get rid of the current skillsystem and replace it with gaining experience points for every npc you kill or every time you use a module.
I think I'm going to go play WoW...
Originally by: Dianabolic
I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
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slothe
Caldari
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.10 12:56:00 -
[25]
i always liked the idea that limited run bpc should be given by research agents in exchange for research points... i guess invention is like this.. kind off :s
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |
Steve Holt
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Steve Holt on 10/02/2007 13:14:59
Quote:
They might not become worthless but their prices would decrease substantially and a lot of decent people who researched for years would see their system pilliaged by the same people who think selling a ship for below mineral build cost is a good idea. The same thing that happened to T1 production would happen to T2 production.
"Researched for years" implies that people actually did something aside from train up a couple skills and grinded up corp standings a bit and let the RP trickle in. The VAST majority of us with 50k or more in RP who have received nothing could actually get a BPO or high run BPC offer with a little bit of ISK kicked back to the agent.
T2 items would not flood the market. The market is limited by tech 2 materials, people with capital (a lot of capital, say at least 10 billion for a ship blueprint), and people with the skills and patience to set up production chains. Capital ship production is available to everyone, yet there are still huge margins to make on that since the entry cost is so steep.
If you want to you could even limit the types of T2 bpos seeded, baced on how long the technology has been out. So maybe interceptor and HAC BPOs would be available, but not Command Ship or Interdictor BPOs.
Saying that artificial and insurmountable barriers should be removed from T2 production is not the same as saying 'T2 BPOs for everyone!' Unless you can find me a time machine, T2 production will always be unfair to those who simply got into the game later than others, and that is just plain ridiculous.
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Genericforumalt
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Steve Holt
Edited by: Steve Holt on 10/02/2007 13:14:59
Quote:
They might not become worthless but their prices would decrease substantially and a lot of decent people who researched for years would see their system pilliaged by the same people who think selling a ship for below mineral build cost is a good idea. The same thing that happened to T1 production would happen to T2 production.
"Researched for years" implies that people actually did something aside from train up a couple skills and grinded up corp standings a bit and let the RP trickle in. The VAST majority of us with 50k or more in RP who have received nothing could actually get a BPO or high run BPC offer with a little bit of ISK kicked back to the agent.
50k RP isn't very much RP :colbert:. To get the most out of your agents it becomes very helpful to get your standing with your research corp obscenely high, I did that. If T2 BPCs were avalible to be bought with 100% certainty from r&d agents, then every shmuck with 6 of them could easially pump out enough ships to flood the market, even with the constraints of moon mining materials.
Quote:
T2 items would not flood the market. The market is limited by tech 2 materials, people with capital (a lot of capital, say at least 10 billion for a ship blueprint), and people with the skills and patience to set up production chains. Capital ship production is available to everyone, yet there are still huge margins to make on that since the entry cost is so steep.
It might be limited, but not to a degree that would prevent cheap T2 from flooding the market. and Capital ship production stays profitable because the logistics involved are too much for the average player.
Quote:
If you want to you could even limit the types of T2 bpos seeded, baced on how long the technology has been out. So maybe interceptor and HAC BPOs would be available, but not Command Ship or Interdictor BPOs.
That wouldn't make too much sense, if they were newley developed wouldn't there be more T2 BPOS of them?
Quote:
Saying that artificial and insurmountable barriers should be removed from T2 production is not the same as saying 'T2 BPOs for everyone!' Unless you can find me a time machine, T2 production will always be unfair to those who simply got into the game later than others, and that is just plain ridiculous.
Invention is the way around this "insurmountible barrier", true it might not be the best for ships but I hear it works well with modules now. and dare I ask why players who start the game after people deserve to be on the same level as people who played for years?
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:34:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Steve Holt
"Researched for years" implies that people actually did something aside from train up a couple skills and grinded up corp standings a bit and let the RP trickle in. The VAST majority of us with 50k or more in RP who have received nothing could actually get a BPO or high run BPC offer with a little bit of ISK kicked back to the agent.
T2 items would not flood the market. The market is limited by tech 2 materials, people with capital (a lot of capital, say at least 10 billion for a ship blueprint), and people with the skills and patience to set up production chains. Capital ship production is available to everyone, yet there are still huge margins to make on that since the entry cost is so steep.
For those inpatient of waiting for a lucky strike, there is always invention. You can cash in your RP for datacores, either use them in invention jobs, or sell them on the market.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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The Judge
The Eternal Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:37:00 -
[29]
I didn't want to post in a t2 bpo thread but here goes ...
I have won a t2 bpo however it was in this latest batch, been playing since 2003 and that was my first one i've ever won so please don't start with the whines of how only veterans always win, they're all rich etc. The fact is that the current lottery system is the fairest method to use to distribute the bpo's between players. I wouldn't be suprised if i never won another one again.
Also the argument of people with t2 bpo's have already made enough isk out of them is pointless, sure the people who won theirs years ago might have, but what about people who won in this latest batch, or recently payed for a t2 bpo. I've had mine a few weeks, not exacley enough time to make multiple billions is it ???
Putting the bpo's on the market won't solve anything, people who are already rich will buy them, market will become flooded, prices will drop to ridicously low levels etc ...
BPC's from agents, again same problem as above. Market will become flooded, prices will drop to ridicously low levels.
Just take an example, do you ring up the national lottery every week and complain to them its not fair you're numbers weren't drawn in the lottery ??
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:38:00 -
[30]
The main problem with the lottery is that it is a diminishing chance of winning over time given the likelyhood of each one settling in the hands of someone who will use it longterm.
It's a weird problem though given the other side of the issue, that being value versus power of the items. A certain amount of rarity is necessary otherwise the t1 side of things becomes completely unused.
So what do you do? To me the only logical answer is to give each T2 BPO a limited time to live. Say four to six months or so. Guaranteed recycling back into the pool and inherently more chances for everyone else out there to win.
Perhaps a bit rough on those who wish to base their entire gameplay on production, but there is an adaptable middle ground there somewhere. The main issue people have with this concept is that they can't envision it being worth the time due to it being difficult to recoup the cost of the BPO. However, I would imagine that BPO prices would naturally adjust down to reflect it.
Any random based solution is going to be inherently unfair. All you can do to mitigate that is to give players more turns at the roullette table.
Just my noob 2 isk.
Oh, and I agree with DS. I don't think the current Eve drama can be held up as proof a broken system. If a dev spawned 20 motherships what broken system would that indicate? Mining? CSA arrays?
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Ignorance |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Worms Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:53:00 -
[31]
the T2 BPO Lottery should reset every five to six months and rerelease all of them again, basicly this could account for people who quit EVE, accidental clicking of 'Trash', cargo destroyed. However you make BPOs into what is called in other MMORPGs a "Lore" item which means you can only have one of that type. basicly if you already have a Cerberus BPO for example you can never win another one when the lottery resets.
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Virida
Mindstar Technology
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:57:00 -
[32]
My sugestion is simple: make the current T2 BPO's limited runs, as 100-200 or something, and let the T2 BPO lotter make long run(but limited) BP's. The result is the blueprints generated would be sent out faster, and the ones knowing statistical methods will get theirs, but its of less importance than a eternal lasting moneymaking machine.
Add the new invention system, and EVE got many ways of getting the ships, breaking all attempts of "monopolies" forever. and letting devs have full control of eventual inflation of Tech2 ships, so this game dont end as a lot of old mmo's, with obese economies who dont look as anything.
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Majutsu
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 10/02/2007 11:29:47
Originally by: Majutsu
Edited by: Majutsu on 10/02/2007 11:05:17
Lottery giving ME10 1000 run BPC's
Still a very nice thing to win and much profit for the winner, not a money mountain forver. When the 1000 runs are used they're reseeded through the lottery
No more T2 BPO's, anywhere, ever. All the ones in current existence converted.
Horrible idea. You would end up with higher prices on t2 mods/ships that way.
People farming the bpc's not to build from, but to sell. People who buy bpc's to produce end up charge higher prices on the end product to consumer (being you). Would end up with less than stable supply to market as well, which would increase prices due to higher demand.
I don't believe that would happen and there's no reason to think the prices would go up.
Of course people would buy the BPC's, it could also see T2 items being produced where the current BPO owner isn't bothering anymore (ie got lots of money can only be bothered to build every now and again or quit game, BPO just sits in hangar). Personally I think this we'd see higher T2 supply.
I'm not saying it's the best idea, I do think it's better than the current one.
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Helison
Gallente
Times of Ancar
THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2007.02.10 14:32:00 -
[34]
First: Please don¦t mix the current problems with Dev misconduct with the problems of T2 and specially the T2 BPO lottery. I don¦t think that the lottery is more abuseable than any other system.
T2 BPOs: The biggest problem is, that T2 BPOs are too worthful. There is no real good method of distributing T2 BPOs in a fair way. Either it prefers the rich people too much (auction) or it only leads to grinding. The lottery is still the best method, while it has also it weaknesses.
Like Virida (and many more in other threads) already wrote: The best solution will be to change all existing T2 BPOs into high-run BPCs. New BPCs will only come from inventions. For this several features have to be changed or tuned:
*) T2-lottery: abolished
*) Research agents: reformed, they have to offer datacores, but the way to accumulate RPs has to be revised.
*) Contracts: We need a much better way of selling and purchasing contracts. How about a BPC-browser (similar to the market) within the contract-system?
*) BPCs: It should be possible to improve the ML and PL of an BPC.
*) Research-slots: Both the research-slots of the stations and the number off concurrent research jobs of a char have to be revised (increased).
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Naskaya
Elegance
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.10 17:03:00 -
[35]
The ideas that if T2 BPOs were available on the market, prices would drop dramatically, and T1 would be unused,
are false ideas, maintained by those who have a direct interest in that affair.
Do you see Typhoon selling for 10M ? Do you see Megathron selling for 25M ? Are they T2 level ? No.
T1 would be become obsolete ? That's a joke.
Not everyone has skills to pilot a hac, do you know ? So the need for T1 ships will be always present.
T1 can be built from basic mineral also, T2.. from a bunch of hi-tech materials, not available everywhere.
Not to mention the assurance available on T1 ship, not T2.
Give me others arguments, i'm curious.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 17:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Naskaya
The ideas that if T2 BPOs were available on the market, prices would drop dramatically, and T1 would be unused,
are false ideas, maintained by those who have a direct interest in that affair.
Do you see Typhoon selling for 10M ? Do you see Megathron selling for 25M ? Are they T2 level ? No.
T1 would be become obsolete ? That's a joke.
Not everyone has skills to pilot a hac, do you know ? So the need for T1 ships will be always present.
T1 can be built from basic mineral also, T2.. from a bunch of hi-tech materials, not available everywhere.
Not to mention the assurance available on T1 ship, not T2.
Give me others arguments, i'm curious.
EvE isnt "undercutting online. Seriously, with this idea stuff would sell at build cost + a few isk and all the t1 builders would have nothing to aspire to. No holy grail to lust after. No carrot dangling infront of them.
Give everybody ingame reasonably easy access to everything and they will see it all, do it all and leave. For Gods sake leave the aspirational element in there.
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Lygos
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.10 17:32:00 -
[37]
Cartels are good. Absence of risk is bad.
There shouldn't be ANY T2 bpos in highsec. Even T1 manufacturers that want to improve their margins shouldn't be based out of highsec. Empire taxes should be worse grief than pirates.
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T2 Risk | Corp Divisions |
mesirass
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 18:49:00 -
[38]
pre-revelations oveur stated t2 bpos were to be seeded and dropped to improve t2 circulation, iv checked my rp agent constantly since then and the same amount and type of t2 bpos still show up on the agents, are any dropping?
i also noticed a market change when invention started to take hold, but have seen very little change in the t2 market due to more t2 bpos supposedly being dropped, doh rocket scientist something isnt cocha.....
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.10 19:15:00 -
[39]
Originally by: mesirass
pre-revelations oveur stated t2 bpos were to be seeded and dropped to improve t2 circulation, iv checked my rp agent constantly since then and the same amount and type of t2 bpos still show up on the agents, are any dropping?
i also noticed a market change when invention started to take hold, but have seen very little change in the t2 market due to more t2 bpos supposedly being dropped, doh rocket scientist something isnt cocha.....
Oh there is new t2 bpo's being seeded. But that doesnt mean the lucky owners of them want to go into charity. As with business else, people try get the most out of what they can offer, anything else doesnt make much sense.
Influx from invention atm can't really be expected as invention is borked big time. Before the run nerf on invention you could see the prices on expanded cargo hold 2 and cap recharger 2 and some other modules where going down somewhat, but I think most of that halted now.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 22:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Oh there is new t2 bpo's being seeded. But that doesnt mean the lucky owners of them want to go into charity. As with business else, people try get the most out of what they can offer, anything else doesnt make much sense.
Influx from invention atm can't really be expected as invention is borked big time. Before the run nerf on invention you could see the prices on expanded cargo hold 2 and cap recharger 2 and some other modules where going down somewhat, but I think most of that halted now.
Agreed. Invention was decent until they hosed the runs. Maybe there should be an investigation into whether or not the dev that screwed Invention to hell by borking the runs only did so because he has buddies in game that profit from it. I can't imagine a sane reason for doing it otherwise. It was just plain stupid.
---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 22:55:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 10/02/2007 22:51:26
Double post? WTF?
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CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Slash Harnet
Minmatar
Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2007.02.11 00:48:00 -
[42]
Why not just allow agent offers to continue and sell BPC's on the market as well.
Lottery continues for BPO's and people not willing to be ripped off on covert ops cloaks any more can just buy the BPC.
I think Snow Balls proved CCP doesn't care how harsh the solution is.
signature removed ... Pirlouit
I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior! |
Sonos SAGD
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 00:56:00 -
[43]
why not have the t2 bpo amount relate to the number of skill books sold for that item (on ships anyways)
so if there are 8 vagabond bpo for 8000 pilots and they can only make 1 a day thats only 2920 vaga's made a year for 8000 people
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X99 Z990
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Posted - 2007.02.11 02:28:00 -
[44]
Should implement a second lottery with a higher frequency and BPC rewards rather than BPOs that way theres less hogging of BPOs and everyone has a nicer chance of T2 production.
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EPSILON DELTA
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Posted - 2007.02.11 03:02:00 -
[45]
when I buy t2 stuff I try not to lose them
if I need to risk losing them I make sure I have enough money to back up the loss
just have to suck it up until devs finally come to their senses.
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Dravin Dread
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Posted - 2007.02.11 03:12:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Genericforumalt
Also putting them on the market is the WORST IDEA EVER. It would pretty much invalidate an entire career path/months of skill training. CCP knows this and this is why it would never happen, ever happen. It's simply too radical a change, even for CCP. The system that we have now is the best we can get without a horrible grind.
All those skill points and time have already been invalidated. Invalidated by recent events.
As for what would "never happen" ... recent events were supposed to "never happen" either.
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Father Weebles
North Face Force
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 03:13:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Genericforumalt
If they were seeded onto the market and only limited by moon mining yeild they would still become far too common, and T1 would be made completly worthless for pvp and other activities.
Not anymore "worthless" than it is now....
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
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Genericforumalt
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.02.11 03:18:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dravin Dread
Originally by: Genericforumalt
Also putting them on the market is the WORST IDEA EVER. It would pretty much invalidate an entire career path/months of skill training. CCP knows this and this is why it would never happen, ever happen. It's simply too radical a change, even for CCP. The system that we have now is the best we can get without a horrible grind.
All those skill points and time have already been invalidated. Invalidated by recent events.
As for what would "never happen" ... recent events were supposed to "never happen" either.
I don't see how the recent events have any bearing on people *****ing about expensive T2 prices.
Originally by: Father Weebles
Originally by: Genericforumalt
If they were seeded onto the market and only limited by moon mining yeild they would still become far too common, and T1 would be made completly worthless for pvp and other activities.
Not anymore "worthless" than it is now....
I mean T1 as in T1 ships mainly.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 03:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08
This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread.
It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused.
The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further.
A new and improved system must be installed asap.
I have always been a fan of simply seeding T2 BPOs to market at huge prices, OR, making invention create T2 BPOs with negitive me/pe.
The Invention part would work far better. CCP could up the materials needed to balance it.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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TorquePSA
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 03:28:00 -
[50]
Edited by: TorquePSA on 11/02/2007 03:27:48
Edited by: TorquePSA on 11/02/2007 03:27:07
I don't really see a problem with the lottery system. I just don't think people like something they have no control over. I've been playing EVE on and off for 3 years, and just this week got my first t2 BPO from my agent. I never really got upset in all that time that I didn't get one, it's a lottery and that's how they work. I've never hit the Powerball jackpot either, and I've played that lottery much longer than 3 years. I waited and eventually got one, and from one of the worst agents in EVE no less (that's right lvl 1, quality -18) so appearantly you really can get a BPO from any agent. I recommend doing research in a field other than starship engineering (which everyone and their brother is in) and go on with playing EVE. Think of t2 BPOs as a stroke of luck, not an unalienable right. If you're lucky, some day you'll open up your mail and see "We've had a breakthrough!". Then comes the glorious life of industry and the valorous life of a carebear, living to service that little blue box (which isn't even special looking itself).
I do think it would be a good idea though to make it a little more transparent. There should be a list somewhere that you can see at least when a BPO is awarded and the NPC agent it was awarded to. I think the main problem with current state is that with players being completely blacked-out to the whole process you really can't fault them for thinking dirty dealings are going on, which wasn't paranoid of them at all, we now find out.
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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.02.11 03:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08
This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread.
It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused.
The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further.
A new and improved system must be installed asap.
You mean the t20 lottery right?
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 03:36:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/02/2007 03:32:31
Originally by: Soulita
It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused.
Baloney.
Any system is potentially very easily dev-abuseable. If the core system mechanic works - and I have yet to hear alternatives which are not dramatically biased and unfair - then there is no reason to change it.
//Maya |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 03:38:00 -
[53]
i've said it a hundred times if i've said it once.
i've heard others say it. only thing i haven't heard is one good reason not to do it. (thats good reason, not blah blah blah)
NO MORE BPO LOTTERIES.
INSTEAD, BPC LOTTERIES, MORE LOTTERIES AND MORE OFTEN!
These would be high run bpc's. One win and your looking at building 50 ships or a 100 mods.
Only arguments against the above is probably gonna come from ppl that would be set to lose isk on their current money printers.
Oh god! Now no one has a corner on the market. People will actually be able to reap real research rewards!
i think i just peed a little. wow, wouldn't it be cool if CCP fixed stuff like this? You know, with logical and simple solutions like the above?
Also by eliminating eternal rewards out of one lottery, you minimize the impact of any future abuse of blueprints (as they wouldn't last FOREVER and be able to build unlimited runs!).
talk about a win - win situation. of course, this is providing CCP doesn't like monopolies, illogical risk vs reward systems, imbalance ingame, etc etc etc.... basically the whole 'top 3% characters hold most the isk in the game' kinda thing.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 03:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I have yet to hear alternatives which are not dramatically biased and unfair - then there is no reason to change it.
see above.
I KNOW you had to have seen this before. and if not from me, from others.
gotta love ppl that just ignore things they dont wanna hear
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Genericforumalt
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 04:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08
This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread.
It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused.
The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further.
A new and improved system must be installed asap.
You mean the t20 lottery right?
hahaha, zing.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 04:38:00 -
[56]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I have yet to hear alternatives which are not dramatically biased and unfair - then there is no reason to change it.
see above.
I KNOW you had to have seen this before. and if not from me, from others.
gotta love ppl that just ignore things they dont wanna hear
No, ignore things which as a BASE would at least triple the price of T2 items on the market. Just because you don't look at the true impact of your proposed changes..
//Maya |
Arushia
Nova Labs
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 06:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Genericforumalt
Invention is the way around this "insurmountible barrier", true it might not be the best for ships but I hear it works well with modules now. and dare I ask why players who start the game after people deserve to be on the same level as people who played for years?
Too bad about the near-insurmountable barrier of getting those **** data interfaces that are required for it.
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Wega Noir
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 06:54:00 -
[58]
A lottery, by nature is about the WORST way to distribute anything. CCP really dropped the ball when they thought that one up.
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Yelina
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 07:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: HankMurphy
i've said it a hundred times if i've said it once.
i've heard others say it. only thing i haven't heard is one good reason not to do it. (thats good reason, not blah blah blah)
NO MORE BPO LOTTERIES.
INSTEAD, BPC LOTTERIES, MORE LOTTERIES AND MORE OFTEN!
These would be high run bpc's. One win and your looking at building 50 ships or a 100 mods.
Only arguments against the above is probably gonna come from ppl that would be set to lose isk on their current money printers.
Oh god! Now no one has a corner on the market. People will actually be able to reap real research rewards!
i think i just peed a little. wow, wouldn't it be cool if CCP fixed stuff like this? You know, with logical and simple solutions like the above?
Also by eliminating eternal rewards out of one lottery, you minimize the impact of any future abuse of blueprints (as they wouldn't last FOREVER and be able to build unlimited runs!).
talk about a win - win situation. of course, this is providing CCP doesn't like monopolies, illogical risk vs reward systems, imbalance ingame, etc etc etc.... basically the whole 'top 3% characters hold most the isk in the game' kinda thing.
/Signed. BPO Lotteries are not good at all.. maybe i would go for the Research Points trade for BPC¦s with variable runs depending on agent level.
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The Judge
The Eternal Knights
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 12:23:00 -
[60]
As i said earlier i've won a t2 bpo but even before that i thought the lottery was the fairest and best system there is to use.
I'm sure alot of you complaining would change their minds in a second as well if you suddenly won one in the lottery, it would be the best system then wouldn't it ?
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Susa Ou
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 12:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08
This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread.
It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused.
The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further.
A new and improved system must be installed asap.
I have always been a fan of simply seeding T2 BPOs to market at huge prices, OR, making invention create T2 BPOs with negitive me/pe.
The Invention part would work far better. CCP could up the materials needed to balance it.
I agree,
Invention should produce BPOs
or
The market should seed T2 BPOs.
I prefer the latter. People make money selling T1 gear, why should the production of T22 gear be economicaly different in any way? We all know the base price for a HAC is about 30ish mil. We also know that a Hac is made about 4 times a month. i This system needs a little more competition. It needs to eliminate the price gougers, the ccorps and alliance that depend on the T2 BPOs to fund their wars, the industrialist that simply got luckey - the T2 market needs to open up so that competition can right this wrong.
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 12:46:00 -
[62]
good point really
since invention for modules was made a bit profitable, i saw some corpmates go that way, and damn it looks interesting. but the amount of TIME involved!!! those deserve their bpo eheh
------
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 12:52:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Steve Holt
Originally by: Genericforumalt
Edited by: Genericforumalt on 10/02/2007 12:06:13Also putting them on the market is the WORST IDEA EVER. It would pretty much invalidate an entire career path/months of skill training. CCP knows this and this is why it would never happen, ever happen. It's simply too radical a change, even for CCP. The system that we have now is the best we can get without a horrible grind.
The lottery is already the WORST IDEA EVER to begin with so spare me.
If the BPOs were available on the market how would that invalidate months of skill training? You still need the same skills to produce a T2 item and components whether the BPO is given or purchased.
Let's see: 3 characters with research project management at 4 = more than 1 month of play time (leave alone the prerequisite, they may be useful for something).
If I ever train the fifth level those are another 4-5 months.
The 5 level is 36 days for a character with 28 int and 23 memory.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 13:04:00 -
[64]
Originally by: mesirass
pre-revelations oveur stated t2 bpos were to be seeded and dropped to improve t2 circulation, iv checked my rp agent constantly since then and the same amount and type of t2 bpos still show up on the agents, are any dropping?
i also noticed a market change when invention started to take hold, but have seen very little change in the t2 market due to more t2 bpos supposedly being dropped, doh rocket scientist something isnt cocha.....
Before revelation there weren't BPO availables from research agents, those vere seeded after the deploing of revelation.
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WhoreMonger
ShipYards Inc
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 14:38:00 -
[65]
I recently got a T2 BPO through the lottery...my first sniff in over 2 and a half years of play time (Yes this is a production alt and NOT the char who won the BPO)
I was dead against the lottery but it DOES work....it is just that a lottery.
Having said that I think the only REAL flaw with it is there is no transparency....you don't "pick" a number or indeed are you assigned any numbers...theres no lottery winning numbers published you just get a msg from you're research agent telling you that he has made a break through or he has hit a problem.
Make things a little more transparent....give ppl something they can check against make them get involved with it and all the whines about the lottery will go away.
My 0.02 isk's worth 
W
n.
A *****master.
ShipYards Inc Research Service's |
Ky Vatta
Caldari
Empire Mining and Industrial Taskforce
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 17:17:00 -
[66]
 The idea of selling T2 BPOs through the market at ridiculously high prices, is a very stupid idea at the very least
What will happen then, is that the buyer of those BPOs will be trying to recoup his expenses of buying that T2 BPo by overcharging the customers for the goods (It is already happening--->See Hulk, where the actual cost is less than a quarter of the sale price)
Best leave the lottery as it is, with one exception:
Post up what BPOs are issued weekly, so we at least know there is some lucky guy out there who can produce certain T2 items....
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Alexi Johns
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 17:29:00 -
[67]
I dont have a problem with the lottery as it is, players have to put some sort of effort in to be in the running.
The major issue is the risk reward factor once a bpo has been aquired, you can sit in a NPC corp and build in hi sec and the bpo never has to leave the station and you cant be the target of war.
Fair enough effort is involved in buying components etc, but NO risk for great reward is just wrong in my books isnt it an IWIN button?, fair enough not all t2 BPOs are like that but its still 0% risk to the security of the BPO.
I say add POS Modules specific to building tech 2 components and allow in 0.0 only, i dont care if the price goes up and all the alliances buy everything up i just want to see risk involved and bpos change hands as regions are conquored during alliance warfare. IMO this would move alot more players out to 0.0 too and i know thats something CCP are pushing for.
At the very least turn the lottery into BPC runs but keep production in empire and when it comes t3 production should be 0.0 only to add risk to reward.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 17:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Susa Ou
why should the production of T22 gear be economicaly different in any way?
Because a real market and player-run T2 economy is one of the major draws of Eve.
//Maya |
Bryg Philomena
Green Lantern Corps
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 18:09:00 -
[69]
My BIGGEST concern is more that the people who had taken the time to get R&D agents will be screwed over! And datacores are NOT worth it. I cannot see, nor want to see a change to the t2 lottery. The t2 lottery gives EVERY player access to the possibility of a t2 bpo. These threads that CONSTANTLY ask for a new way, is, like many others, a whine thread. That point is concrete, you cannot deny that. The fact that you are disgusted by those who recieved them, while you sit there hoping and waiting for one.
Please CCP, leave the system as it is. I don't want my month of training and months of waiting for it to be meaningless. I cannot fathom that I am the only one who thinks this way.
Those that are waiting for one and complain, I have a solution, make isk and buy one. Find a bpo owner and negotiate a deal to buy one.
-Bryg
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465618 |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 18:17:00 -
[70]
Nooo changeeem ir have won a t2 bpo yay More more more more.
-----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Kerdrak
Amarr
3B Legio IX
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 18:24:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Kerdrak on 11/02/2007 18:21:16
http://www.petitiononline.com/ 
________________________________________
First atheist amarr on EVE
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Shameless Avenger
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 18:27:00 -
[72]
Kill the lottery, seed the BPOs on the market and make invention produce BPOs. Current T2 owners will cry but they are not the mayority of the player base and they have billions already.
Sory guys but it's the only fair thing to do, even if it doesn't sound fair to you. |
The Judge
The Eternal Knights
|
Posted - 2007.02.11 18:48:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Kill the lottery, seed the BPOs on the market and make invention produce BPOs. Current T2 owners will cry but they are not the mayority of the player base and they have billions already.
Sory guys but it's the only fair thing to do, even if it doesn't sound fair to you.
Have you even read the thread ?
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.02.11 18:58:00 -
[74]
Originally by: The Judge
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Kill the lottery, seed the BPOs on the market and make invention produce BPOs. Current T2 owners will cry but they are not the mayority of the player base and they have billions already.
Sory guys but it's the only fair thing to do, even if it doesn't sound fair to you.
Have you even read the thread ?
Hello T2 BPO owner. Yes I have. |
Bryg Philomena
Green Lantern Corps
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Posted - 2007.02.11 19:03:00 -
[75]
if you want something fair, the ONLY thing is the lottery, it gives NO ADVANTAGE to ANY PLAYER. Regardless of age, play time or isk. So how can you say anything to the contrary? If you put t2 bpo's on the market, think these t2 BPO owners whom you claim to have billions couldn't, or wouldn't buy them? Fair is a lie. Lottery is fair.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465618 |
Sessho Seki
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Posted - 2007.02.12 01:43:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Bryg Philomena
[...]Fair is a lie. Lottery is fair.
Shakespearian...
Yes indeed the lottery is “fair” so long as we derive the meaning of fair from your above equation of “fair” being a lie…
Please keep in mind this is coming from a winner of the “lottery”, however I prefer to call it: A joke in bad taste played upon the EVE community which CCP calls a research system so they won’t have to actually invest the effort necessary to let the players control their fate(s).
I have no problem with T2 being rare or expensive, I do however have a considerable problem with calling a broken raffle system a substitute for an actual research mechanism. If anything, Invention is better than the T2 lottery, and Invention is almost as big a joke as the T2 lottery is already, let’s all cross our fingers and pray that CCP doesn’t let Invention die on the vine, but rather expands on it and pushes it as the primary avenue for technology research outside of dumb-luck, err, “the research system”.
As with every other market that has ever been, if there is demand to be attended to, the market will do everything within its power to produce as much of whatever is desired to sate that demand. As with everything, PRODUCTION is the axis around which this entire issue should revolve, however production is literally not even allowed to have a say in the matter because it’s artificially capped by a joke of a lottery that only releases “X” number of BPO’s for each type, effectively “bending the market over” before the lottery winners even collect their prizes.
The lottery could actually be nearly palatable if and only if there were monthly drawings of EVERY BPO after the initial release of them, and numbers would of course vary upon the type of BPO. This would allow for competition, AND keep T2 BPO holders from whining (as much) that they can’t make money because their BPO will retain considerable value, when even after a year the number of BPO’s introduced would still be EXTREMELY small compared to the population of EVE and demand would be allowed plenty of time for gougerific prices in the early days of the BPO’s but the market itself would at least have a chance with such a system to fend for itself over time.
Oveur, among others, have even spoken of EXACTLY this same idea, and why on God’s green Earth they continue to drag their feet is curiously close to warranting a trial in The Hague for crimes against humanity, as they are clearly using the T2 lottery as a Weapon of Mass Frustration on thousands of innocent people…
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente
Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.12 02:45:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 12/02/2007 02:47:03
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 10/02/2007 10:39:01
The solution is really pretty simple. Put every BPO in the game on the market and adjust the prices accordingly to fit the estimated target spread and growth.
Edit:
Oh and give those with research points a discount so that they are not worthless then get rid of the lottery completely and change research agents to fill a different role.
It's never to late to fix a broken system.
This is what you really want.
T2 was supposed to fix the broken T1 system (YES, BROKEN) because players spend a lot of time skilling up to manufacture stuff, and guess what, what they make in five hours can be made by killing 1 NPC in 0.0.
Invention is to stop it from going out of control, not to make T2 into T1. If T2 is everywhere, guess what, nobody uses T1, and T1 might as well go the way of basic items.
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Kill the lottery, seed the BPOs on the market and make invention produce BPOs. Current T2 owners will cry but they are not the mayority of the player base and they have billions already.
Sory guys but it's the only fair thing to do, even if it doesn't sound fair to you.
Let's see you say that after spending over a year collecting T2 bpos and BILLIONS of ISK spent on them. I didn't win my BPO's in a magic lottery. I worked for them. What stopped you from doing the same?
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.02.12 03:01:00 -
[78]
Meh, I won a couple of t2 bpo's recently (I actually bought one earlier with ISK made from missions / trading)
Now, as one of those rich layabout bastards who prints ISK while sleeping I have only one one thing to say to you commoners "nyanananana!!!eleven111!!"
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Trask Kilraen
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.02.12 04:09:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
A lot of people seem to forget why the lottery, a player-designed idea was instituted.
Its because there were only three obvious ways to distribute BPOs in a limited manner.
1. Auction. This way, only the rich would have any chance, and everyone else would be screwed.
2. Grindfest. I don't think I have to explain why having to "race to 3 million LP" or some crap like that would suck.
3. Lottery. Totally random, giving everyone a chance to get BPOs.
Anyone who really thinks 1) or 2) would be a better option is crazy.
There is no such thing as an "abusable" system; every system for distributing anything is by definition abusable if you're a dev, because a dev can do anything in the game world. Blaming the current problems on the lottery system are absolutely silly and stupid, because the dev didn't even use the lottery system to get the items, he spawned them
You miss an abvious alternative:
A modified lottery. Right now, the T2 market is artificially inflated because the number of BPO's is fixed. Regardless of the number of toons performing T2 research, only a set number of BPOs are awarded. One alternative is to have a CHANCE of getting a BPO offer based on the number of RP's you have. The more RP's the greater the chance you are made an offer. Exactly WHICH BPO you're offered would be totally random (within your area of research anyway). This would keep a steady supply of BPO's coming into the market, and would better support market mechanics.
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Lori Labratt
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Posted - 2007.02.12 06:17:00 -
[80]
Isn't that the way it is right now?
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Neesa Corrinne
Black Watch Legionnaires
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.12 06:24:00 -
[81]
The best idea ever put forth has been repeatedly ignored for some reason.
A BPO lottery was a very unplanned and irresponsible method of handling the distribution. A BPC lottery on the other hand would make a lot of people shut their big mouths.
Instead of giving absolute control over the production of an item to a few individuals, the lottery should instead drop decent sized BPC's. I wouldn't complain if my agent dropped a 5-10 run ship BPC every couple of months.
This way it lets everyone who has an R&D agent receive some profit at random intervals instead of someone hitting the jackpot and basically growing ISK on their BPO tree.
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medecau
33 cl's
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:53:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 10/02/2007 06:12:08
This pledge is directly related to the current situation as discussed in this thread.
It is now a fact that the by principle very abuseable system of t2 BPO distribution has in fact been abused.
The community has called for changes to the t2 lottery since a very long time now. In light of the recent developments there is no more excuse for delaying a complete overhaul of the t2 distribution system any further.
A new and improved system must be installed asap.
You mean the t20 lottery right?
thats exactly what i read. 
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Torg Jupiter
Minmatar
Exploration Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:09:00 -
[83]
in opposition to a lot of posters in this thread i believe that CCP was right the way they handled the T2BPO fraud. stability is restored. but an increase in T2 research output should be benefitting as well, and if in the way of additional T2BPCs, like suggested above.
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Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.02.14 21:39:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 14/02/2007 21:41:24
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 14/02/2007 21:35:51
Originally by: Jennifer Meek
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 12/02/2007 02:47:03
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 10/02/2007 10:39:01
The solution is really pretty simple. Put every BPO in the game on the market and adjust the prices accordingly to fit the estimated target spread and growth.
Edit:
Oh and give those with research points a discount so that they are not worthless then get rid of the lottery completely and change research agents to fill a different role.
It's never to late to fix a broken system.
This is what you really want.
T2 was supposed to fix the broken T1 system (YES, BROKEN) because players spend a lot of time skilling up to manufacture stuff, and guess what, what they make in five hours can be made by killing 1 NPC in 0.0.
Invention is to stop it from going out of control, not to make T2 into T1. If T2 is everywhere, guess what, nobody uses T1, and T1 might as well go the way of basic items.
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Kill the lottery, seed the BPOs on the market and make invention produce BPOs. Current T2 owners will cry but they are not the mayority of the player base and they have billions already.
Sory guys but it's the only fair thing to do, even if it doesn't sound fair to you.
Let's see you say that after spending over a year collecting T2 bpos and BILLIONS of ISK spent on them. I didn't win my BPO's in a magic lottery. I worked for them. What stopped you from doing the same?
That made me LOL hard. Calling fair competition on an open market "communism" and then looking at your sig of the T2 cargo expander and the infinite wallet balance is just classic.
Edit: Oh and if you will actually read more than the first line of my post you will see we are saying the same thing about the prices. T2 BPO's SHOULD be very expensive!
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CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2007.02.14 21:55:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
The best idea ever put forth has been repeatedly ignored for some reason.
A BPO lottery was a very unplanned and irresponsible method of handling the distribution. A BPC lottery on the other hand would make a lot of people shut their big mouths.
Instead of giving absolute control over the production of an item to a few individuals, the lottery should instead drop decent sized BPC's. I wouldn't complain if my agent dropped a 5-10 run ship BPC every couple of months.
This way it lets everyone who has an R&D agent receive some profit at random intervals instead of someone hitting the jackpot and basically growing ISK on their BPO tree.
i keep tryin to say it. but when your head is stuck in the sand (or a pile of isk, or up your.. well we wont go there ) its kinda hard to hear common sense.
DOWN W/ BPO LOTTERIES
UP W/ BPC LOTTERIES
MORE LOTTERIES MORE OFTEN
"WHAT!? WHAT DID YOU SAY HANK??? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER TEH THUNDERING NOISE OF MY ISK PRINTING MACHINE?"
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.14 22:32:00 -
[86]
Personally, I think the R&D Agents should issue T2 BPO's and BPC's as random rewards, limited to those BPO's they are "researching"...
No need to reseed the lotto, just a (very very low) chance each day and a (very low) chance with each mission you run for that agent... all you need to do is be tied up with the R&D agent (as it is now) for you to have a chance to get a BPO/BPC.
When you figure you get 1 R&D mission per day, with the low chance of the mission paying off with a BPO/BPC the number of t2 BPO's would still be low, but the lotto issues would be out of the picture.
Noob in training...
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.02.14 23:39:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Jennifer Meek
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Kill the lottery, seed the BPOs on the market and make invention produce BPOs. Current T2 owners will cry but they are not the mayority of the player base and they have billions already.
Sory guys but it's the only fair thing to do, even if it doesn't sound fair to you.
Let's see you say that after spending over a year collecting T2 bpos and BILLIONS of ISK spent on them. I didn't win my BPO's in a magic lottery. I worked for them. What stopped you from doing the same?
So I say the lottery must die and BPOs should be bought, not won.
Then you say I'm wrong because you bougth your BPOs instead of winning them and suggest me to do the same? Isn't that what I said in the first place?
/me predicts now most T2 BPO owners will say "I did not win it, I bought it!" 
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.15 00:07:00 -
[88]
Seems like a lot of people just aren't even talking about the same thing.
The main problem is that some people feel T2 production should be limited in some way so that those who engage in it can at least get profit. This is not a flawed point in and of itself. But when it comes down to deciding who gets in on the sweet deal theres no fair way to do it.
Everyone here who isn't a jerk clearly admits there is no fair way to decide this. That's why "luck" was decided on.
At this point though a much larger group exists who isn't ok with this whole idea of artificial scarcity allowing profit. Frankly this group is the correct group. Nobody can honestly deny that their arguments are the most valid ones. I myself am not a member of this philosophy.
I don't like the lottery or unlimited run BPO's but artificial scarcity is fine with me as long as the system is changed into a method that favors me(prolly some grinding method). At least I'm willing to admit my bias though unlike a lot of the irritating lottery supporters that show up in these threads.
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Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.02.15 00:16:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Sorela
Seems like a lot of people just aren't even talking about the same thing.
The main problem is that some people feel T2 production should be limited in some way so that those who engage in it can at least get profit. This is not a flawed point in and of itself. But when it comes down to deciding who gets in on the sweet deal theres no fair way to do it.
Everyone here who isn't a jerk clearly admits there is no fair way to decide this. That's why "luck" was decided on.
At this point though a much larger group exists who isn't ok with this whole idea of artificial scarcity allowing profit. Frankly this group is the correct group. Nobody can honestly deny that their arguments are the most valid ones. I myself am not a member of this philosophy.
I don't like the lottery or unlimited run BPO's but artificial scarcity is fine with me as long as the system is changed into a method that favors me(prolly some grinding method). At least I'm willing to admit my bias though unlike a lot of the irritating lottery supporters that show up in these threads.
A lot of people here are talking about the same thing, and it is a fair way. Tech2 BPC instead of BPO. Convert all old BPO to BPC, and only offer BPC from here on out. BPC runs out and is then re-seeded.
Has anyone offered a reason why this wouldn't work? How or why it would be unfair? I'd love to see that.
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente
Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.15 00:18:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
That made me LOL hard. Calling fair competition on an open market "communism" and then looking at your sig of the T2 cargo expander and the infinite wallet balance is just classic.
Edit: Oh and if you will actually read more than the first line of my post you will see we are saying the same thing about the prices. T2 BPO's SHOULD be very expensive!
I'm glad you found it funny. I meant to make it like that. I'm not hiding anything.
If every T2 bpo was on the market, everyone would be producing T2 items, and in a few short weeks every item would be available for the mineral cost, meaning anyone who has invested billions of ISK into these prints will NEVER recoup their costs, and the players who just won the lottery won't make diddly squat.
Most supporters of the "seed bpos on market" are simply non-lottery winners, and are probably just jealous.
If you want a garanteed T2 bpo, save the ISK and buy one.
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Hauler McTote
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Posted - 2007.02.15 01:01:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Hauler McTote on 15/02/2007 01:00:15
I'd just be interested, as said in another thread, to learn some game stats about bpo ownership and quantity(figures, not names).
Course, that will never happen, knowing the Iron Curtain mentality, and statistical black hole that is CCP. |
Dark Kavar
Caldari
Even-Flow
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Posted - 2007.02.15 02:43:00 -
[92]
I was thinking mabey they could do something where R and D agents hand them out like normal agent rewards so you actually have to do missions for them, and then have the actual production use more minerals so the production price is more around insurance cost? I haven't thought about it alot though so i'm sure there are problems with my suggestion.
Originally by:
id rather leave on a good note but I hate my corp and do not want to play with them.
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Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.02.15 03:48:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Jennifer Meek
Originally by: Par'Gellen
That made me LOL hard. Calling fair competition on an open market "communism" and then looking at your sig of the T2 cargo expander and the infinite wallet balance is just classic.
Edit: Oh and if you will actually read more than the first line of my post you will see we are saying the same thing about the prices. T2 BPO's SHOULD be very expensive!
I'm glad you found it funny. I meant to make it like that. I'm not hiding anything.
If every T2 bpo was on the market, everyone would be producing T2 items, and in a few short weeks every item would be available for the mineral cost, meaning anyone who has invested billions of ISK into these prints will NEVER recoup their costs, and the players who just won the lottery won't make diddly squat.
Most supporters of the "seed bpos on market" are simply non-lottery winners, and are probably just jealous.
If you want a garanteed T2 bpo, save the ISK and buy one.
And again I notice you only read the first line of my post. I totally agree that T2 BPO should be rediculously expensive. Billions and billions! It's the part about them not being available at all to those of us that want to spend that kind of isk on them that I have a problem with.
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CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Novina Agrari
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Posted - 2007.02.15 03:53:00 -
[94]
Want to really make the T2 BPO market fun?
Only award BPCs. Never BPOs. Remove T2 BPOs from the game entirely! Invention would take off overnight
But hey, that's probably more of a T3 thing. :D
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Neesa Corrinne
Black Watch Legionnaires
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.15 05:18:00 -
[95]
Some people are whining about removing the lottery altogether and putting the BPO's on the market instead. I think this would be an incredibly bad idea for reasons that other people have already mentioned in this thread.
The lottery itself isn't the bad idea. The bad idea was to put BPO's in the lottery instead of BPC's. BPO's ensure that the people who receive them will be wealthy beyond the rest of our dreams. BPC's would help relieve the frustration of having thousands or RP's and never seeing any benefit from them.
Or how about both? Give out some BPO's so that we can always keep the dream of owning one alive, but then hand out BPC's on a more regular basis so that the rest of us can still turn a penny or two every once in a while.
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Lubomir Penev
Gallente
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2007.02.15 11:04:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 15/02/2007 11:01:14
Originally by: The Judge
Just take an example, do you ring up the national lottery every week and complain to them its not fair you're numbers weren't drawn in the lottery ??
The problem is that EVE is sold as being a free market economy game but that it isn't true if anybody cannot enter it.
Says that in real world you want to enter the space MMORPG market, you have to aquire commodities (office space, programmers, designers...) put them to use and eventually you get a result.
If you want to enter T2 industry in EVE you have to somehow get hold of a very rare item thru a lottery or the rare (for good BPOs) open sale. That's not a real free market, that's an oligopoly, and people that were sold the game under promises of free market are justifiably not satisfied.
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente
Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.16 00:50:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 16/02/2007 00:47:25
Originally by: Par'Gellen
And again I notice you only read the first line of my post. I totally agree that T2 BPO should be rediculously expensive. Billions and billions! It's the part about them not being available at all to those of us that want to spend that kind of isk on them that I have a problem with.
They are available, you just have to convince the owner to sell it.
OMG Noes! I HAVE TO TALK TO ANOTHER PLAYER OMG HOW HORRIBLE OHNOESNOTTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.16 00:54:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Some people are whining about removing the lottery altogether and putting the BPO's on the market instead. I think this would be an incredibly bad idea for reasons that other people have already mentioned in this thread.
The lottery itself isn't the bad idea. The bad idea was to put BPO's in the lottery instead of BPC's. BPO's ensure that the people who receive them will be wealthy beyond the rest of our dreams. BPC's would help relieve the frustration of having thousands or RP's and never seeing any benefit from them.
Or how about both? Give out some BPO's so that we can always keep the dream of owning one alive, but then hand out BPC's on a more regular basis so that the rest of us can still turn a penny or two every once in a while.
The alternative to get lucky with bpo through R&D agents, is invention.
If you didnt get lucky you could always gather the isk and try buy a tech2 bpo from those who get lucky and sell theirs. Or you could explore the invention path. Yes, Invention is a bit flawed, but its still an option.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.02.16 01:18:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 16/02/2007 01:15:32
Originally by: Jennifer Meek
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 16/02/2007 00:47:25
Originally by: Par'Gellen
And again I notice you only read the first line of my post. I totally agree that T2 BPO should be rediculously expensive. Billions and billions! It's the part about them not being available at all to those of us that want to spend that kind of isk on them that I have a problem with.
They are available, you just have to convince the owner to sell it.
OMG Noes! I HAVE TO TALK TO ANOTHER PLAYER OMG HOW HORRIBLE OHNOESNOTTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please make some more assumptions about how I play and then tell me how I should be playing! It amuses me.
OMG Noes! SOMEONE DOESN'T PLAY THE GAME EXACTLY LIKE I DO! OMG HOW HORRIBLE OHNOESNOTTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Neridine
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Posted - 2007.02.16 01:28:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Neridine on 16/02/2007 01:24:33
The easiest way to help the t2 lottery is to just keep putting out t2 bpos as the population increases. Maybe a new lottery cycle every 3 months or whatever...
As others have said, the basic problem is that even with all of the in-game bpos running 24/7, the demand can't be supplied (admittedly - this is for some items more than others...)
I'm less thrilled with the idea of BPCs being lotteried, purely as they are less useful for manufacturing (although, I guess if the runs are long enough, that may make a negligable difference)
I would *LOVE* to see how many t2 bpos are owned by Devs (or were won by Devs...). T2 BPOs are specifically one thing that Devs don't need to have especially since they're playing the game to get a feeling for it, and the rarity of t2 bpos makes it an exclusive club, and hence something that the vast majority of users will not experience.
It also (especially with the recent events) gives the impression (probably unjustified - after all these people have been playing for a long time...) of scamming the system.
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente
Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.16 11:50:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 16/02/2007 01:15:32
Originally by: Jennifer Meek
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 16/02/2007 00:47:25
Originally by: Par'Gellen
And again I notice you only read the first line of my post. I totally agree that T2 BPO should be rediculously expensive. Billions and billions! It's the part about them not being available at all to those of us that want to spend that kind of isk on them that I have a problem with.
They are available, you just have to convince the owner to sell it.
OMG Noes! I HAVE TO TALK TO ANOTHER PLAYER OMG HOW HORRIBLE OHNOESNOTTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please make some more assumptions about how I play and then tell me how I should be playing! It amuses me.
OMG Noes! SOMEONE DOESN'T PLAY THE GAME EXACTLY LIKE I DO! OMG HOW HORRIBLE OHNOESNOTTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So you admit that you just want to buy BPO's from NPC's whenever you please?
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Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.02.16 14:47:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 16/02/2007 14:44:20
Originally by: Jennifer Meek
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 16/02/2007 01:15:32
Originally by: Jennifer Meek
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 16/02/2007 00:47:25
Originally by: Par'Gellen
And again I notice you only read the first line of my post. I totally agree that T2 BPO should be rediculously expensive. Billions and billions! It's the part about them not being available at all to those of us that want to spend that kind of isk on them that I have a problem with.
They are available, you just have to convince the owner to sell it.
OMG Noes! I HAVE TO TALK TO ANOTHER PLAYER OMG HOW HORRIBLE OHNOESNOTTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please make some more assumptions about how I play and then tell me how I should be playing! It amuses me.
OMG Noes! SOMEONE DOESN'T PLAY THE GAME EXACTLY LIKE I DO! OMG HOW HORRIBLE OHNOESNOTTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So you admit that you just want to buy BPO's from NPC's whenever you please?
NPCs, players, my mom, God, who cares? You are missing the point entirely and I tire of trying to explain it to you.
*waves dismissively*
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CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
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