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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Won Swunglow
Dead By Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.13 13:08:00 -
[91]
You tried using passive targeters... oh wait
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Fuchsia
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Posted - 2007.02.13 13:14:00 -
[92]
Once upon a time (back in 2003) if you logged out you would just float helplessly out of control. Couldn't we go back to that? Ok if you really do crash or due to lag you loose your ships, its always petitionable.
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The Archimandrite
AUS Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.13 13:24:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Tar om
My view is that CTD/Disco should not matter. I know its a tough line to take but if you CTD or disco then it should just be tough luck. If you have a crappy connection or EVE install - fix it. This rule would be fair for all and would eliminate exploits. If you leave the game, your ship floats in space for 5 minutes if not aggro'd or 15 minutes if aggro'd. No exceptions, no favoritism.
I'm in complete agreeance with Tar om. If you CTD/Disconnect and lose your ship, tough. I had a CTD problem months ago, all to do with the new soundcard I had. Anytime I initiated combat, I'd crash to desktop without warning. I VERY quickyl would log back in, usually to find my ship warping back to the belt I was ratting in. The single time it happened to me in PvP, I was warping to ambush a group, and logged back on to find myself in a pod, sans ship. Needless to say, I very quickly sorted out the problem, and NO, I didn't petition the loss.
It's Harsh but Fair.
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Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2007.02.13 16:27:00 -
[94]
Quote: My view is that CTD/Disco should not matter. I know its a tough line to take but if you CTD or disco then it should just be tough luck. If you have a crappy connection or EVE install - fix it. This rule would be fair for all and would eliminate exploits.
So what you are encouraging is for gate campers to cause as much lag as possible in order to ensure anyone coming through the gate gets blicked before they even load the other side?
So it's not ok for people to use an out of game solution like Ctrl-q or disconnect....but its perfectly acceptable to lag that guys connection to cause major out of game lag? (because we all know there is no lag in RL)
I personally don't think this is any kind of rational solution at all.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.02.13 16:37:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Tuxford We could map ctrl-q to "eject from ship without confirmation" and just not tell anyone about it,... but frankly I think its too evil, even for me
And it will only work once
Oh, but what a glorious once it would be.
I contrl Q all the time in empire just becuase I am to lazy to dock at a station
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.02.13 18:00:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Vladikov Orrico
Quote: My view is that CTD/Disco should not matter. I know its a tough line to take but if you CTD or disco then it should just be tough luck. If you have a crappy connection or EVE install - fix it. This rule would be fair for all and would eliminate exploits.
So what you are encouraging is for gate campers to cause as much lag as possible in order to ensure anyone coming through the gate gets blicked before they even load the other side?
So it's not ok for people to use an out of game solution like Ctrl-q or disconnect....but its perfectly acceptable to lag that guys connection to cause major out of game lag? (because we all know there is no lag in RL)
Neither one is ok. And I'm not sure why you think that being against a bad logoff mechanic means that somebody is *for* crappy lag tactics.
The latter is already petitionable and something the GMs will intervene in. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.02.13 18:01:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Tuxford Naturally logging out is not meant to be "get out of jail free card". I'm looking into it and a fix should be coming soon.
Thank you. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Octaviun
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.13 21:37:00 -
[98]
This thread delievers. /bump _________________________________________________
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DDaisy
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.13 22:02:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Skeeta Mar And for the record, if the devs really wanted to determine when someone ctrl-q's, they most certainly could and it isn't a lot of code to do so.
Yes, they could get the client to report when it's closed due to ctrl-q.
But they cannot detect when you simulate a CTD or loss of connection by: Clicking the "stop internet" button in your firewall Pulling out your network/modem cable Killing the eve process manually Pulling out your PC power cable
All of which have exactly the same effect as ctrl-q as far as the server is concerned, and are so quick and simple anyone can do it.
Exactly.
I prefer your more colourful view of gate loggers from last November's Fanfest. Don't think it would pass the content filter though. Certainly got your point across though -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In the wake of DDaisy's Megathron"
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DDaisy
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.13 22:02:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Skeeta Mar And for the record, if the devs really wanted to determine when someone ctrl-q's, they most certainly could and it isn't a lot of code to do so.
Yes, they could get the client to report when it's closed due to ctrl-q.
But they cannot detect when you simulate a CTD or loss of connection by: Clicking the "stop internet" button in your firewall Pulling out your network/modem cable Killing the eve process manually Pulling out your PC power cable
All of which have exactly the same effect as ctrl-q as far as the server is concerned, and are so quick and simple anyone can do it.
Exactly.
I prefer your more colourful view of gate loggers from last November's Fanfest. Don't think it would pass the content filter though. Certainly got your point across though -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In the wake of DDaisy's Megathron"
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Shinto Shai
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Posted - 2007.02.13 22:40:00 -
[101]
agreed if they put in a counter to bubbles first, its complete **** that you cant counter one tbh if there was a counter , people wouldnt log is my bet.
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Apollo Kreed
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:36:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Shinto Shai agreed if they put in a counter to bubbles first, its complete **** that you cant counter one tbh if there was a counter , people wouldnt log is my bet.
There's a few counters to bubbles/gate camps actually.
#1 - Ask a buddy or corp mate to scout for you in a cheap frigate outfitted with a mwd and a couple of stabs. (Eve is an MMO after all, one of those 'm's standing for multi-player so there's no foul in getting a little help.)
#2 - Use the local channel to your advantage. A lot of times you can hear about gate camps from people in local. It probably isn't as solid in 0.0 as it is in low-sec but if a gate is being camped word tends to spread into the neighboring systems. It doesn't hurt to ask how safe things are in the area. Failing that, a lot of campers set up a scout on the other side of the gate. If you hit local and see someone in a pirate corp, noob corp (possible alt), or corp you suspect for any reason could be camping the gate you're about to hit, then pay attention once you get to that gate. Look for Mr. Alt/Enemy Corp/Lone Pirate. If he's sitting there all alone and looks like he's watching the gate then don't jump.
Finally #3 - And this one is your best friend. There's a hotkey (you know hotkeys, much like control - q), that when you press it, it pulls up all kinds of useful info. That's right, info, right at your fingertips. Info that can tell you how many ships have been destroyed in the last hour in a system, how many pilots are likely in that system, if anyone's been recently podded in that system, as well as much more. Just hit f10 and all this is your's.
In closing, if you don't think you can survive a gate camp without control - q you're either...
a) Illiterate or b) Lazy or c) Stupid
Apollo
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:27:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Shinto Shai agreed if they put in a counter to bubbles first, its complete **** that you cant counter one tbh if there was a counter , people wouldnt log is my bet.
You can always mwd back to the gate. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Shinto Shai
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Posted - 2007.02.14 01:41:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Shinto Shai on 14/02/2007 01:40:04 ya but it should have a module counter or ship skill counter , or type of tier 3 covert ops ship thats able to warp out of bubbles, dictor and anchored, yet not immune to scrambling if uncloaked without wcs.
or since gate camping should in fact also leave one OPEN to attack and not just by superior numbers, something similiar to a pod that lauches 3-5 fof missles and is only one or two pods per indy (5k m3 say) that or if not fof then self guided. that way a fleet or person has the chance to send a drone salvo through .
Imho giving people an option other than logging would be more pleasing to the greater number of people than if you just declare its illegal. which as stated already brings its own problems.
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Archachi Niyabain
Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2007.02.14 02:33:00 -
[105]
how about, when you log (such as in a bubble), you dont warp... but instead, just stay cloaked where you are (and disappear after timer, ofc). When you log back in you're at the same spot, just cloaked still. That way, if you CTD you cant get killed, but you cant escape bubbles by logging, cause when you come back in, if the bubbles still there youre still stuck.
Then again, one could still log out then just not come back for a few hours... hmm.
ah, well, I tried.
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Daniel Lentz
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Posted - 2007.02.14 02:50:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Tuxford Naturally logging out is not meant to be "get out of jail free card". I'm looking into it and a fix should be coming soon.
Thank you.
\o/ Yeah! the end of whining in EvE!!!
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ghosttr
Amarr The Department of Resource Control
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Posted - 2007.02.14 05:35:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Tuxford Naturally logging out is not meant to be "get out of jail free card". I'm looking into it and a fix should be coming soon.
It needs to be fixed in a way that still will allows legitimate disconnects or ctds.
I don't believe that logging should be a "get out of jail free card", but i also don't think its a good idea to leave no safety mechanism for legitimate problems. I rarely ctd, but it does happen every so often, and i would hope to be able to return to the game in-tact if such an event occurs.
Looking to join an allaince with 0.0 access where i am allowed to build poses. EVE-Mail me if you have any opportunities. |
Apollo Kreed
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.02.14 07:17:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Apollo Kreed on 14/02/2007 07:18:05
Originally by: Archachi Niyabain how about, when you log (such as in a bubble), you dont warp... but instead, just stay cloaked where you are (and disappear after timer, ofc). When you log back in you're at the same spot, just cloaked still. That way, if you CTD you cant get killed, but you cant escape bubbles by logging, cause when you come back in, if the bubbles still there youre still stuck.
Then again, one could still log out then just not come back for a few hours... hmm.
ah, well, I tried.
So.. instead of warping off you cloak and avoid the gatecamp?
How about following the three ways to avoid a gate camp I described above?
Seriously, people need to quit being lazy asses as well as stupid and get over the fact that GATECAMPS are MEANT to be PART OF THE GAME.
If you crash in a situation where you have an aggro timer or are scrambled it's your own damn fault. Don't put yourself in this situation to begin with... period! Control - q should only be safe to do at stations in my opinion when you have an aggression timer. If someone targets you, the whole warp off function should be ******. Don't like it, don't put yourself in that situation.
If your computer crashes on you right after you pop into a gate camp odds are you're ****** anyway. So yeah... carebearing aside, PvP isn't based on consent in Eve, if that's not your thing go back to WoW.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.14 07:22:00 -
[109]
Originally by: The Archimandrite
Originally by: Tar om
My view is that CTD/Disco should not matter. I know its a tough line to take but if you CTD or disco then it should just be tough luck. If you have a crappy connection or EVE install - fix it. This rule would be fair for all and would eliminate exploits. If you leave the game, your ship floats in space for 5 minutes if not aggro'd or 15 minutes if aggro'd. No exceptions, no favoritism.
I'm in complete agreeance with Tar om. If you CTD/Disconnect and lose your ship, tough. I had a CTD problem months ago, all to do with the new soundcard I had. Anytime I initiated combat, I'd crash to desktop without warning. I VERY quickyl would log back in, usually to find my ship warping back to the belt I was ratting in. The single time it happened to me in PvP, I was warping to ambush a group, and logged back on to find myself in a pod, sans ship. Needless to say, I very quickly sorted out the problem, and NO, I didn't petition the loss.
It's Harsh but Fair.
As 95% of my DC are because some moron ping repeteadly my IP and EVE lose the signal, you have some suggestion on how to avoid it?
And how much people you all think CCP should pay to sort 1000 petition/day for ship loss?
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D1ck Jones
Old Detroit Crime Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.14 07:29:00 -
[110]
If you're out i 0.0 and disconect, then tough ****. It always seems to happen that these 'disconects' are where there are some camps. Camps tht could easily be avoided with 1/2 a clue. But as usual there is the whining empireish babies that like to cheat because they suck.
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.14 07:33:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 14/02/2007 07:29:26
Originally by: Tuxford Naturally logging out is not meant to be "get out of jail free card". I'm looking into it and a fix should be coming soon.
We bug reported this a year ago. Please fix. Game breaker.
Do Not Discuss Moderation - hutch |
Lorth
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.14 07:39:00 -
[112]
Few things discorage me more about this game then the random amount of flaming alts that frequent these threads defending out right exploits, since it fits thier own misguided vision of the game. A vision of eve that is nothing at all like what eve was intentionally designed as.
The frequancy of cheating, and the numerous people who defend it, is perhaps one of the saddest displays I have seen in an online community in a while. People frankly should be ashamed, at the notion that its fine to exploit the game mechanics to tailor the game to your own wishes.
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Norrinas
Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.14 07:43:00 -
[113]
What about using a standard 15 min log out in space timer for normal disconnects where the ship remains in space and a 20min for aggressed ships? Makes 0.0 a hell of a lot more dangerous and .1 - .4 insane. The emergency warpoff is one thing that is good to keep just for the pure fact of untrackable disconnects or server issues.
Also probably should find a way where people in a friendly POS has the standard insta log timer with no agression countdown. Just as an added benefit to having a POS.
This would remove all pretense of not being able to kill someone and so forth.
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Gradinger
Todmacher
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Posted - 2007.02.14 08:10:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Tuxford Naturally logging out is not meant to be "get out of jail free card". I'm looking into it and a fix should be coming soon.
feel the luv
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Mindlles
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.14 08:38:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Mindlles on 14/02/2007 08:40:25
Originally by: Tuxford Naturally logging out is not meant to be "get out of jail free card". I'm looking into it and a fix should be coming soon.
When is soon, this has been a problem for a long time now, and soonTM isnt really doing it for me.
Do what ever nessary to sort this problem, even if its evil. Becouse todays gameplay and how players react to this problem is just insane and destroys the game play for the few off us that dont use this. And refuse to do so.
So plz Tuxford and co sort this problem out asap. Im defently not in the mode to wait another year for a critical fix like this.
Thx in advance.
=)
Edit . Ps.
For all u that complains about that its good as it is, Go play another game, EvE have never been forgiving and never will be.
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.14 20:22:00 -
[116]
Thx Tuxford, my faith restored.
KIA EVE Home
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ghosttr
Amarr The Department of Resource Control
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Posted - 2007.02.14 21:01:00 -
[117]
I think it should be based on ships in range or something. If there are no ships within x km of you then you will instawarp. If there are ships (yes even cloakers) then you must wait at least 5 minutes long enough for a gang that is camping the gate to attack, but not long enough for reinforcements to be called in from a few jumps away to destroy a logged ship
Looking to join an allaince with 0.0 access where i am allowed to build poses. EVE-Mail me if you have any opportunities. |
Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.02.14 22:22:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Mindlles For all u that complains about that its good as it is, Go play another game, EvE have never been forgiving and never will be.
You people complaining that things are fine... you need to go play another game, Eve's not for you.
I love the forums.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2007.02.14 22:51:00 -
[119]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 14/02/2007 22:48:22 I agree with the OP. (Which is why I asked about it at fanfest and apparantly made it onto Kieron's List ).
Basically, logging in and out is not and never should be a part of gameplay. If it's ok to ewarp off in a bubble, I want an in game button to do it. But you know, and I know, that's not going to happen BECAUSE IT'S LAME.
But it's not, and as has been said, the only reason it gets a 'not a sploit' is because it's impossible to tell for sure.
Edit: Go on Tuxford. Dooooooo it. You KNOW you want to.
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Constantine Arcanum
IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2007.02.14 23:46:00 -
[120]
Originally by: d026
Quote: The fix to 99% of all bubble-logoffs would be to have "System contains Warp Disruption Effects" visible on the starmap.
no! but it woul dbe nice to get a ptobe you can launch trough the gate so that the probe can scann the next system :)
would be even cooler if the probe was all blinky and visible to those on the other side. see blink, jump through and pwn said prober.
the prober doesn't get killed by a gatecamp, the prober isn't bubbled and stays logged on. everybody wins! but yes warp bubbles should stop all warps.
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