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It is my opinion that Amarr need to be changed for the better.

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Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:41:00 - [61] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/02/2007 15:38:18 As someone who thought that the abaddon sucks, and could not understand the point of it, I have changed my mind. Almost all my kills are either in a Pilgrim, Curse or Caldari ships, with the odd apoc smartbomb kill. This was until I found out about the ingenious abaddon setup's for fleet warfare (i.e full rack of tach's) It is the perfect fleet battleship...... When setup correctly. And by correctly, I do not mean these half assed setups on the forums. And by setup, I mean good rigs. And by good rigs, I do not mean cap rigs. Think and you will understand. Now to finish Amarr BS lvl5 --
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:52:00 - [62] Screw it what are ammar willing to lose to gain this cap reduction? Ammo that never runs out? (unless tech 2) Higher damage mod on guns? Or we could give a EM res increase on shilds to compisate for it. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Master Spoonman Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:02:00 - [63] Originally by: Taedrin Amarrs problem is not with their ships, but with their guns. Their ships are just about the best armor tankers out there. The problem is entirely with lasers. Lasers just aren't useful enough against armor. IMO the best way to handle Amarr is to change them from dealing EM/Thermal damage to EM/Explosive. Precisely! I know it isn't logical physics-wise (but really, what in this game is?), but there needs to be more variation in crystal types/damage types for lasers. Sure we can go through shields fast enough, but once we hit armour we're pretty useless. Also, capacitor is a huge problem with Amarr ships. I often use Minnie guns on my Amarr ships just because I can't afford cap for any tank at all when I have lasers equipped. I played pure Amarr for about my first two months into the game. After that, I switched to Caldari, and it felt like going from 'Extremely hard' to 'Bloody easy' mode. *** Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:03:00 - [64] Well, EM/Explosive crystals might be the wrong idea. However, turning all Amarr ships into faction ships (3 bonuses instead of 2) is also the wrong idea. So far the only idea here that makes much sense is to reduce cap consumption on lasers and remove the cap bonus from ships and give it something more useful.
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium Kurai Komichi	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:50:00 - [65] I love my Amarr ships. (Having said that those of you with unthinking biasas can now tune me out and the rest can keep reading.) PVP in EVE is the best ballanced PVP I've ever played, at least in a MMO. If you look every race has a couple major skills they need to be effective. Minmitar must learn both their guns and missles. I also hear that they armor and shield tank though I've not had that confirmed. Caldari Missles, Shields. And yeah you have to put a lot of work sp wise to make that tank work. Galentee, Hybreds and Drones. Amarr? You guessed it Gunnery and Cap. If you raise the two basic cap skills to 4 you eliminate nearly all of your cap based problems. Then you fit the odd CPR, look the named ones give better than 20% bost to cpu recharge now! Also am I the only one who noticed, and rejoyced, when they increased all capacitors size by 25%? That opened a slot on nearly every T1 ship I fly. In all my time with Amarr, I've been activly and happily engaged in PVP and I only fit lasers, when I win and when I lose comes down a lot more to relative sp between pilots and tatics used than wether or not my EM dammage was gimped. My only beef is that with Weapon Upgrades 5 and AWU 4 I still find it hard to fit beam lasers onto frigates. Also I'd like it if the Retribution had a 2nd mid slot, I'll trade you one of the lows.. For those of you endlessly wasting your time with Multifreq, Drop em. Fit Gammas instead. What you lose in dammage you more than make up for in the increased range and the 50% drop in cap use. My Apoc shoots its Megapulses for a measly 13 energy per shot. About the reloads, It's not the ammo in your bay that we are laughing at, well unless you are pve and can't haul the loot, it's that 10 secconds you waste refiling your whatever while I get a free repair cycle and keep blasting away. Worked great for me against a Raven just the other night. Or how about that by dedicating a tiny percentage of my cargo to a 2nd set of crystals I can hit effectivly at whatever range combat is likely to occur? One final point, w/o endorsing the idea, Lasers could do explosive dammage if we suggest that there is so much energy transfer from being hit by them that objects superheat and explode. (yay David Webber). Having said that I'll keep my EM and Therm thanks.
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:00:00 - [66] Why not just have amarr damage types switched. So instead of Em primary, therm secondary ... its Therm primary and em secondary. Would be a simple change in the DB. It even makes sense from an RP perspective. 0_0 I do agree with other posters, the no-ammo and instant reload are huge bonuses to amarr that are often overlooked. What would be nice would be a macro "switch all crystals to multifreq" or something, instead of clicking X amount of times to change ammo. But thats another topic. (man everyone would love that i would bet)
Saarin	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:37:00 - [67] Hmm an idea I have not seen before... though mebbe I missed it... Introduce Ammo for Energy weapons in the form of batteries which hold X number of charges. Might fix a large number of issues.. Dunno how we'll ever solve the damage type thing though...
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:43:00 - [68] I think the only real improvement Amarr could be given without breaking their racial design is a much, much bigger Armor buffer when compared to Gallente. Just leave lasers alone, with all their problems. Give us a holy motherfiretruck of an armor buffer, not this '500 more here 900 more there' when compared to Gallente like it is now.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.12 21:51:00 - [69] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/02/2007 15:38:18 As someone who thought that the abaddon sucks, and could not understand the point of it, I have changed my mind. Almost all my kills are either in a Pilgrim, Curse or Caldari ships, with the odd apoc smartbomb kill. This was until I found out about the ingenious abaddon setup's for fleet warfare (i.e full rack of tach's) It is the perfect fleet battleship...... When setup correctly. And by correctly, I do not mean these half assed setups on the forums. And by setup, I mean good rigs. And by good rigs, I do not mean cap rigs. Think and you will understand. Now to finish Amarr BS lvl5 Abaddon setup like so < Geddon set up like so. Geddon will be cheaper, have more relative hit points, will do a measly 2.2% less damage than the Abaddon and will be able to fire its guns without running out of capacitor. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Frothgar Caldari Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.02.12 21:54:00 - [70] How about in response to the new Heat system upcoming give amarr some portion of the damage from lasers as heat which can overload the enemy's systems. Also allow them to regulate heat more efficiently than the other races. IMO that would prolly do it.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.02.12 21:55:00 - [71] How about if the cap use and damage is reduced on the base guns, and Amarr ships are given a 5% dmg per level bonus instead of the 10% cap use reduction per level? It wouldn't really change anything, but would at least make a few people happy. Other than that I don't really know what could be done to Amarr without completely changing their entire philosophy of tank tank tank!! t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Scav Silver Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.13 01:56:00 - [72] Originally by: Aarin Wrath I do agree with other posters, the no-ammo and instant reload are huge bonuses to amarr that are often overlooked. What would be nice would be a macro "switch all crystals to multifreq" or something, instead of clicking X amount of times to change ammo. But thats another topic. (man everyone would love that i would bet) Pls do.. I'm tired of ppl tellin' me how great no ammo is.. When infact T2 crystals do fall apart.. ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.02.13 02:32:00 - [73] Edited by: X99 Z990 on 13/02/2007 02:30:04 Alternatives to 10% cap reduction per level. Crucifier - 10% bonus to tracking disruptor optimal range. Executioner - 7.5% bonus to small energy turret tracking speed. Crusader - Interceptors - 7.5% tracking bonus changed to 10% optimal range bonus. Malediction - Interceptors - Retain its current bonuses. Punisher - 5% bonus to small energy turret thermal damage output. Vengeance - Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses but has 5% thermal damage output on frigate level. Retribution - Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses but has 5% thermal damage output on frigate level. Omen - 10% bonus to medium energy turret accuracy falloff. Zealot - Heavy Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Maller - 5% bonus to medium energy turret thermal damage output. Sacrilege - Heavy Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Prophecy - 5% bonus to medium energy turret thermal damage output. Damnation - Command Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Absolution - Command Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Harbinger - 5% bonus to drone velocity and tracking speed. Armageddon - 10% bonus to large energy turret accuracy falloff. Apocalypse - 10% bonus to scan resolution and targeting range. These are only examples of new roles and flavour amarr ships can get if they remove the laser cap usage and build it into the guns.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.13 03:17:00 - [74] Originally by: Aarin Wrath Why not just have amarr damage types switched. So instead of Em primary, therm secondary ... its Therm primary and em secondary. Would be a simple change in the DB. It even makes sense from an RP perspective. 0_0 I think most Amarr posters would agree to this.. /signed
gfldex	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:03:00 - [75] Amarr ships problem is simply that they got three problems at once. They are to low on PG, to low on CPU and their guns use to much cap. All the the same time. No other race got that many problems. With the combat prolongment Amarr ships are now forced to fit a cap injector. In every pvp situation they have to use one! That means they carry the ammo for 4 1/2 minutes of fighting. Limit the cargo bay of ammo using ships by the same degree and you would have protestors in Jita around the clock. My proposal would be the following. Increase PG and CPU off nearly all Amarr ships by the same amount their cap injectors need. Increase the reload time of cap injectors to 3 minutes to make ppl die that run out of cap after they burned a clip of cap charges. Decrease the size of cap charges so charges for 4 1/2 minutes will fit in. As a side effect all players that tend to loot cap charges will love you. -- Number of pilots that logged while I scrambled, bubbles or shooten them: 9.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.13 05:24:00 - [76] Honestly i like the cap reduction bonus on laser guns as the amarr bonus, makes them unqiue, but there laser need to deliver more damage to compensate for armor tankers which is about 3/4 of eve anyway. Amarr battleships are good so as their bc and their recon ships. The crusader is a nice ship as well but its dmg is not as good as it should be compared to other ceptors. The zealot is good but their other ships are pretty weak. They have the worse AF. The retribution delivers huge dmg for a frig but is so limited by only having 1 mid slot. The problem with amarr is they are not a great solo ship, more of a good large gang group. But honestly ppl fear and domi, falcon/rook, arazu and others over the amarr ships. Is it that other races are overpowered compared to amarr or amarr just weaker? Give the amarr ships more dps against armor tanks. Thats my 2cents. And yes im caldari but i do fly amarr t2 cruisers atm but prefer caldari and gal frigs.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 06:36:00 - [77] Originally by: X99 Z990 Snip Those are terrible suggestions. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.02.13 06:56:00 - [78] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: X99 Z990 Snip Those are terrible suggestions. Indeed, i like the idea of a crusader with 10% optimal bonus though.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.13 09:11:00 - [79] Originally by: Goumindong Abaddon setup like so < Geddon set up like so. Geddon will be cheaper, have more relative hit points, will do a measly 2.2% less damage than the Abaddon and will be able to fire its guns without running out of capacitor. Not so! Again - Avoid the crappy setups on the forums and do not get stuck in the trap of "must fit cap rigs" --
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 09:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Goumindong Abaddon setup like so < Geddon set up like so. Geddon will be cheaper, have more relative hit points, will do a measly 2.2% less damage than the Abaddon and will be able to fire its guns without running out of capacitor. Not so! Again - Avoid the crappy setups on the forums and do not get stuck in the trap of "must fit cap rigs" Uhhh no. I know exactly how you plan on setting up that Abaddon, and a Geddon does it better and cheaper. Pulse or Tachs. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.02.13 09:40:00 - [81] Originally by: X99 Z990 Armageddon - 10% bonus to large energy turret accuracy falloff. Lasers + falloff bonus? t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.13 11:27:00 - [82] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/02/2007 11:25:38 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Goumindong Abaddon setup like so < Geddon set up like so. Geddon will be cheaper, have more relative hit points, will do a measly 2.2% less damage than the Abaddon and will be able to fire its guns without running out of capacitor. Not so! Again - Avoid the crappy setups on the forums and do not get stuck in the trap of "must fit cap rigs" Uhhh no. I know exactly how you plan on setting up that Abaddon, and a Geddon does it better and cheaper. Pulse or Tachs. Nope. You dont know what I am thinking. And 8 x T2 Tach's are the end result. You want to know the fitout? My answer is in my sig. Remember - I was the ultimate Anti-Abaddon supporter. Now things have changed. The Abaddon is pretty much the ultimate fleetship. --
Grytok	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:10:00 - [83] No problem for me with PG or CPU on Amarr-Ships Skills to have @ LvL 5 for PewPew: Electronics, Engineering, EnergySystemsOperation, EnergyManagement, WeaponUpgrades, AdvancedWeaponUpgrades, ControlledBursts, and the ShipSkill itself preferably. OK, the switch from EM to Thermal as the primary damage would be nice, but not necessarily needed. And CapProblems, because I'm NOSsed dry? Show me the one Active-Tank-Ship that doesn't die to NOS, except the ones who are equipped with the same amount of NOS. Fact is: I kill things quicker with a Harbinger then with a Brutix (7xPulse vs. 7xBlaster), and the skills for Hybrid and Energy-Weapons are exactly the same. .
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:17:00 - [84] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 13/02/2007 12:14:11 Quote: And CapProblems, because I'm NOSsed dry? Show me the one Active-Tank-Ship that doesn't die to NOS, except the ones who are equipped with the same amount of NOS. The problem is that when an Amarrian ship is drained of it's cap, it can't use its weapons. The same cannot be said of Caldari ships, Minmatar ships, and some Gallentean ships. Furthermore, only the Apocalypse has a significantly better recharge rate than the other equivalent tier battleships. The Typhoon, Scorpion and Dominix all have more or less the same recharge rate as the Armageddon, and yet can devote pretty much all of their cap to tanking. Dulce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Mortim Minmatar Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:31:00 - [85] I think part of the beauty of this game is that it ISN'T balanced, and future changes, nerfs and additional features will indeed change certain aspects of current situations. Best just to sit tight and go with the flow in my opinion, leave making everything 100% quantified, level and balanced whilst ripping all sense of originality out of the game to Blizzard. Yes, yes I went there... Mort
Mortim Minmatar Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:31:00 - [86] I think part of the beauty of this game is that it ISN'T balanced, and future changes, nerfs and additional features will indeed change certain aspects of current situations. Best just to sit tight and go with the flow in my opinion, leave making everything 100% quantified, level and balanced whilst ripping all sense of originality out of the game to Blizzard. Yes, yes I went there... Mort
Leilani Solaris Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.13 13:45:00 - [87] Originally by: Taedrin Amarrs problem is not with their ships, but with their guns. Their ships are just about the best armor tankers out there. The problem is entirely with lasers. Lasers just aren't useful enough against armor. IMO the best way to handle Amarr is to change them from dealing EM/Thermal damage to EM/Explosive. The problem isn't with the damage types. EM/Thermal is fine. The problem vs armour tanks lies in the 2 eanm/dcu tank. Giving roughly 85% em/thermal resists with decent skills. Thus meaning you are only doing an average of 15% of your total DPS. Against shield tankers it's not too bad seeing as they start with low em resists anyway. The cap is only a problem when you come to shoot and tank, and with the low amount of mid slots it's not always possible to fit a cap booster without sacrificing a web or speed mod etc. I think i remember reading a dev response a while ago though that amarr is in line for a boost, no idea when though. Outbreak Killboard
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 15:13:00 - [88] Edited by: Goumindong on 13/02/2007 15:12:02 Originally by: Lord WarATron Nope. You dont know what I am thinking. And 8 x T2 Tach's are the end result. You want to know the fitout? My answer is in my sig. Remember - I was the ultimate Anti-Abaddon supporter. Now things have changed. The Abaddon is pretty much the ultimate fleetship. Your answer is "I dont know what im talking about, and dont have a setup that trumps the Armageddon"? If you say so. As they say, proof or stfu. I suppose you choose to stfu. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.13 16:44:00 - [89] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/02/2007 16:41:19 Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 13/02/2007 15:12:02 Originally by: Lord WarATron Nope. You dont know what I am thinking. And 8 x T2 Tach's are the end result. You want to know the fitout? My answer is in my sig. Remember - I was the ultimate Anti-Abaddon supporter. Now things have changed. The Abaddon is pretty much the ultimate fleetship. Your answer is "I dont know what im talking about, and dont have a setup that trumps the Armageddon"? If you say so. As they say, proof or stfu. I suppose you choose to stfu. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. The form follows function. On a pure isk/damage ratio, the Corcerer is probebly the king ship in the game. Does that mean everyone should be flying around in Corcerer's? Theory is one thing, and practical reality is another. I will reveal my setup in the battlefield first. --
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 17:21:00 - [90] Originally by: Lord WarATron The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. The form follows function. On a pure isk/damage ratio, the Corcerer is probebly the king ship in the game. Does that mean everyone should be flying around in Corcerer's? Theory is one thing, and practical reality is another. I will reveal my setup in the battlefield first. I.E. you dont have it... The Geddon does it better AND cheaper. Not just cheaper. Not "isk/damage" ratio. Just plain better. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

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