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It is my opinion that Amarr need to be changed for the better.

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SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:20:00 - [1] Before you click the post reply button to make a sarcastic comment about "Oh, another buff Amarr thread", or using World of Warcraft rhetoric "It's fine, learn2play", know this: I'm not Amarr, I cannot even fly Amarr ships, nor would I ever want to. I don't like the Amarr race as a whole, and would quicker remove the race from the game than buff them if the option was available, but in the spirit of balance, I think there is something wrong with the overwhelming majority of their ships. Sure, you can tell me "Well, this ship is awesome" or "I always see that ship in PvP!" and of course, you're probably referring to a Battleship, HAC, or Command Ship. It's true: those ships, with proper Tech2 guns and drones are quite effective in combat. Just last week an Absolution caught me at a gate in 0.0 and got me to 50% shields in my Nighthawk in the time it took to MWD back to the gate I had just jumped from. So no, not all Amarrian ships are broken, and even then, I don't think the ones that are underpowered are in need of a game-breaking fix. What I propose is that all Tech1 Amarrian ships get 3 bonuses instead of 2, and that their Tech2 counterparts remain the same. This bonus would be static and the same for all ships: 50% reduction in whatever energy turret they use. I think a faction ship or two already has a bonus like this already, but how many people fly faction ships on a regular basis? You could even keep the current bonuses, adding a further decrease in capacitor use to said ships. On the other hand, if you don't want to be redundant, I would say give them a bonus to capacitor recharge rate for each level of the ship skill trained. Truly, it is a sad state that whenever I see a new Amarr character in my corporation I the first thing I wonder is if they still fly Amarr ships. If they do, I let them know a small part of me just died inside. One of my corpmates, a die hard Amarr pilot when he was new, argued with me repeatedly that "Amarr ships don't suck". I eventually just told him it was his choice to fly them. A few months go by and I hear him talking about how great it is to finally be in his Harpy (Caldari sniper Assault Frigate). "Why did you switch?" I ask. Paraphrased, he basically told me that he was tired of the limited ability the Amarr have in comparison to other races ships, and he switched to Caldari gunboats -- something I find superior to missile boats, I just can't be bother to train gunnery skills. I ask that if you're going to disagree with me, do so in a constructive manner. Is it not easier to mission in other ships? Caldari/Minmatar both use missiles on some level, and Gallente, while stuck with Kinetic/Thermal damage that is hybrids, still can select their damage with very good drone bonuses. Amarr have... turrets, and with a few exceptions, that's it. In PvP, a knowledgeable shield tanker will get his EM resists to an acceptable level, and armor tankers usually don't have to worry EM damage. The only problem ends up being thermal, which can be solved with 1 rig, or a couple EANMs and a Damage control. I know this has nothing to do with how much damage Amarr ships do, but with how important your capacitor is in PvP and PvE, it will serve to indirectly help them when faced with Nosferatus and such. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:23:00 - [2] Amarr problem is simple, and similar to what you stated. Almost all Amarr T1 ships have only one bonus, because of the cap usage bonus that doesn't actually do anything except help them use their own weapons. Solution is simple: Lower all laser base cap usage by 35%, and replace all those bonuses with something useful. Amarr is good again. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Dark Shikari Amarr problem is simple, and similar to what you stated. Almost all Amarr T1 ships have only one bonus, because of the cap usage bonus that doesn't actually do anything except help them use their own weapons. Solution is simple: Lower all laser base cap usage by 35%, and replace all those bonuses with something useful. Amarr is good again. The problem arises then, with other races, and with Tech2 ships. Tech2 ships are fine. They don't really need to be changed, so only tech1 ships need a reduction in cap. The other thing is that could bring it to a level where other races are using the turrets on their ships. I know some guys who, back when we were in Empire mission-running, would put on small hybrid turrets on their torpedo ravens to take out smaller ships when the mission was drone-bugged. I think CCP doesn't want anyone using energy turrets except amarr. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:30:00 - [4] Hmmm.. Those are actually some nice suggestions that I'm sure with a bit of work could be implimented.. And when I first saw this thread I thought is was going to be about making us 'good' in the moral sense.. Its not our fault.. Its the damn low charisma.. Dred'Pirate Jesus.. Not a Dev or BoB alt ..or am I?
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:41:00 - [5] Amarrs problem is not with their ships, but with their guns. Their ships are just about the best armor tankers out there. The problem is entirely with lasers. Lasers just aren't useful enough against armor. IMO the best way to handle Amarr is to change them from dealing EM/Thermal damage to EM/Explosive.
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Taedrin Amarrs problem is not with their ships, but with their guns. Their ships are just about the best armor tankers out there. The problem is entirely with lasers. Lasers just aren't useful enough against armor. IMO the best way to handle Amarr is to change them from dealing EM/Thermal damage to EM/Explosive. That would break them. They would become what a lot of people consider Caldari to be (or what I consider Minmatar ). From a roleplaying sense, I'm not sure how you could fit that one in, either, as there is very miniscule amounts of matter in lasers to cause explosions. My proposed change would open up a bonus slot for maybe an added rate of fire bonus, which would improve damage all around. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:53:00 - [7] Or allow ammar lasers to cause tertiary damage on the heat level causing weapons to overload. Of course changes needed to be made to make it seem useful for khanid ships to use their launcher slots cough curse cough Half Assed Rhymage
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:58:00 - [8] Originally by: SonOTassadar From a roleplaying sense, I'm not sure how you could fit that one in, either, as there is very miniscule amounts of matter in lasers to cause explosions. And space doesn't act like water, and you can't have howitzers in space. Reality never stopped anything in EVE before; it won't in the future. At any rate, EM/Explosive wouldn't solve a damned thing. What armor tanker doesn't boost explosive? The real problem is that every other race's primary weapons can do any damage type. Matari? Their ammo tends to do three bloody damage types, and they have ammo that covers all four types. Caldari? Missiles can do any damage type. Gallente? Drones can do any damage type. The Amarr, of course, get stuck with two specific damage types on their primary weapons. Go us. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Dark Shikari Solution is simple: Lower all laser base cap usage by 35%, and replace all those bonuses with something useful. Fix fitting requirements as well please kthx
mechtech	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:03:00 - [10] This is an "out there" idea: Wait for the patch that adds heat and overheating to modules (it is currently in development), and give lasers the ability to cause heat in the opposing ships modules. Maybe even let lasers target specific areas of a ship to overheat (weps, tanking equipment, ect.) That would be fun to use, and make the race more unique...
Ekscalybur	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: SonOTassadar From a roleplaying sense, I'm not sure how you could fit that one in, either, as there is very miniscule amounts of matter in lasers to cause explosions. And space doesn't act like water, and you can't have howitzers in space. Reality never stopped anything in EVE before; it won't in the future. At any rate, EM/Explosive wouldn't solve a damned thing. What armor tanker doesn't boost explosive? The real problem is that every other race's primary weapons can do any damage type. Matari? Their ammo tends to do three bloody damage types, and they have ammo that covers all four types. Caldari? Missiles can do any damage type. Gallente? Drones can do any damage type. The Amarr, of course, get stuck with two specific damage types on their primary weapons. Go us. Don't a lot more Gallente boats have a bonus to hybrid turret damage than a bonus to drone damage?
Gobblock Gobbatron's cloning vats	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: SonOTassadar Gallente? Drones can do any damage type. The Amarr, of course, get stuck with two specific damage types on their primary weapons. Go us. umm, galente are stuck with 2 as well on their primary weapons.
MMoroz Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:14:00 - [13] Wanna be constructive? So what is wrong with geddon, abbadon , harbinger, curse, pilgrim, absolution and i think few others. Oh so not everyone ship rocks...hm yes we need to change that so amarr owns all. Put skills in guns and you will see that amarr are good in pvp, if you talking about PVE just choose right region or complex. So exaclty what is wrong with this ships. And why you argue if you know **** about ammars ships?
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Gobblock Originally by: Anatolius Gallente? Drones can do any damage type. The Amarr, of course, get stuck with two specific damage types on their primary weapons. Go us. umm, galente are stuck with 2 as well on their primary weapons. Depending on the ship, Drones are the primary weapons, not guns. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Tyrantus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Of course changes needed to be made to make it seem useful for khanid ships to use their launcher slots cough curse cough A launcher bonus in addition to the drone bonus for the Curse? Yes Plz! Though I seriously doubt we would ever see that one implimented as the thing is already on the border of overpowered (I'm not complaining!) as it is..
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Tyrantus Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Of course changes needed to be made to make it seem useful for khanid ships to use their launcher slots cough curse cough A launcher bonus in addition to the drone bonus for the Curse? Yes Plz! Though I seriously doubt we would ever see that one implimented as the thing is already on the border of overpowered (I'm not complaining!) as it is.. Maybe when the nos nerf comes Half Assed Rhymage
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 11/02/2007 20:20:26 grumble Dred'Pirate Jesus.. Not a Dev or BoB alt ..or am I?
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:24:00 - [18] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 11/02/2007 20:22:01 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Tyrantus Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Of course changes needed to be made to make it seem useful for khanid ships to use their launcher slots cough curse cough A launcher bonus in addition to the drone bonus for the Curse? Yes Plz! Though I seriously doubt we would ever see that one implimented as the thing is already on the border of overpowered (I'm not complaining!) as it is.. Maybe when the nos nerf comes That would be cool as I hardly ever use nos as a primary fit on my Curse anyways.. Any launcher bonus would rock as long as its not a damn EM damage bonus.. Rof would be tops if you lost the nos drain amount bonus for it.. Dred'Pirate Jesus.. Not a Dev or BoB alt ..or am I?
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Any luancher bonus would rock as long as its not a damn EM damage bonus.. I would giggle myself silly the day CCP did that. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Tyrantus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Tyrantus Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Of course changes needed to be made to make it seem useful for khanid ships to use their launcher slots cough curse cough A launcher bonus in addition to the drone bonus for the Curse? Yes Plz! Though I seriously doubt we would ever see that one implimented as the thing is already on the border of overpowered (I'm not complaining!) as it is.. Maybe when the nos nerf comes Nos nerf is coming? Neato.
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:29:00 - [21] I promise, i'm NOT trying to hijack this thread. Another imbalance with amarr is that all the other races can still do a good amount of damage when nossed. Sure, they're tank is dead, but all races have that problem. The problem I have is that our guns require SO much cap to fire, that when nossed, we just sit there. Other races can at least fight back. Oh, and on the damage type thing, I don't remember who has it, but there's this guy with the best sig for this thread. It says something about how "the race least able to vary their damage type does the damage that every race has a base 60-80% resist to" or somethign like that. Kinda sucks. No worries though, I love my amarr ships, and i'm not switchin, but man, i'd like just a small amount of love for the T1 ships. Thanks! good game
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Tyrantus Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Tyrantus Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Of course changes needed to be made to make it seem useful for khanid ships to use their launcher slots cough curse cough A launcher bonus in addition to the drone bonus for the Curse? Yes Plz! Though I seriously doubt we would ever see that one implimented as the thing is already on the border of overpowered (I'm not complaining!) as it is.. Maybe when the nos nerf comes Nos nerf is coming? Neato. Well I assume that the nerf is comming soonÖ since no one has really said anything about it being changed Half Assed Rhymage
Ralara Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Anatolius Gallente? Drones can do any damage type. The Amarr, of course, get stuck with two specific damage types on their primary weapons. Go us. Blasters / rails are Gallente's primary. Gallente's primary can only do two specific damage types on their primary weapons. Their secondary is the drones. Just like Amarr. Although amarr could do with bigger drone bays. That said, Caldari should technically have larger drones, since it was drones vs frigates that were in the Caldari/'Gallente split, in a role playing sense.
tiewan	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Moraguth Another imbalance with amarr is that all the other races can still do a good amount of damage when nossed. Sure, they're tank is dead, but all races have that problem. The problem I have is that our guns require SO much cap to fire, that when nossed, we just sit there. Other races can at least fight back. True, but I think that is a fair trade for not having to buy ammo
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:19:00 - [25] Originally by: tiewan Originally by: Moraguth Another imbalance with amarr is that all the other races can still do a good amount of damage when nossed. Sure, they're tank is dead, but all races have that problem. The problem I have is that our guns require SO much cap to fire, that when nossed, we just sit there. Other races can at least fight back. True, but I think that is a fair trade for not having to buy ammo T2 crystals do break over time Half Assed Rhymage
Scav Silver Amarr Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:20:00 - [26] Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 21:19:10 Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 21:18:35 I'm Amarr w/ Amarrian Ships.. It took me 4 trail accounts to finally decide how I want to start the game.. :P It's True that T1 Ships are a bit "underpowered".. I use my drones as my secondary type "dmg" when runnin' missions.. But it's OK, T2 where the fun is.. There are somethings I still don't understand.. How does a "light" based wpn cause EM dmg?? Shouldn't Thermal be thier primary dmg?? And if so, just give 'em all dmg types.. Laser are "instant" hit wpns, why the lack of accuracy over other wpns?? And the range is all messed up.. Forget all the small problems w/ lasers.. Just unnerf heat sinks.. ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
Pharos Dei Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:23:00 - [27] Originally by: tiewan Originally by: Moraguth Another imbalance with amarr is that all the other races can still do a good amount of damage when nossed. Sure, they're tank is dead, but all races have that problem. The problem I have is that our guns require SO much cap to fire, that when nossed, we just sit there. Other races can at least fight back. True, but I think that is a fair trade for not having to buy ammo seriously that ammo nonsense crap is starting to get stupid... yes t1 crystals dont need ammo, so what? i have never ever ran into situtaions where my raven ran out of ammo in critical situations. Neither did it on any of my gallante ships... besides when was the last time a ammo user lost some 20m in ammo when he died?
Scav Silver Amarr Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:29:00 - [28] Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 21:26:16 Originally by: tiewan True, but I think that is a fair trade for not having to buy ammo That's the most retarded thing a Baby Seal can say.. Just unplug your computer and give it to me.. ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
Queen Lo	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:30:00 - [29] I think the obvious solution is to ditch lasers in favour of giant space flamethrowers which use no cap and do thermal and explosive damage. They would have relatively short range but would cause their target to continue to burn and take damage for a short period after the shot is fired, giving you the rather cool option of being able to kill someone after they have already podded you. This would also open up an avenue to return snowball launchers as a kind of support weapon, which you can fire upon your burning gangmate to douse him and put out the flames, perhaps in time to save his ship. Amarr problem solved. Seriously though, I agree with Dark Shikari's assessment. I don't see why Amarr are the only race that have to have cap use bonuses for their guns, merely to make them viable. I mean jees, try tachyon sniping in an abaddon. Those babies use almost 100 cap per shot if iirc. Put 8 of those on with heatsinks, with a rof of around 8 seconds, and that is 100 cap /sec just for the guns alone. Too much.
Azirapheal	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:53:00 - [30] confessional time - i used to fly amarr (shocked gasps from audience) what i found was thus - t2 tachs OWN causing enough thermal damage to melt armor and the em takes care of shields. anything less. sucks ass. the em as primary is just intrinsically wrong - if em was dropped a massive amount, or limited to certain Crystals and lasers just did thermal damage it would be much more effective. and for the love of god would i like to fly an effective prophecy setup without having to use a stupid amount of cap relays and rechargers yeesh currently training for a deimos... at least i can hurt people with it.
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:07:00 - [31] Okay, maybe i do mean to hijack this thread, sorry. If we really wanna go into the awesomeness of never having to buy ammo for amarr, I think that one other race needs a massive un-nerf. that's right, gallente. If for some reason, after i disconnected, my lasers exploded... i would be royally ****ed. Granted, large drones are cheaper than my mega pulses, but still. I know some might say that ballances out cause they can have a wave of heavies, mediums, and lights in their hold (for some of the bigger ships) so they can be effective against all class ships, but still. THE HORROR. Back on the topic of crystals: I love not having to buy ammo. I can use my cargo for looting/salvaging, AND i can stay in deep 0.0 being a hermit without having to go back to a station for a VERY long time. I only have to go back if i get found and destroyed, or if i disconnect too many times and my drones are gone. It is really demeaning when you've just killed off 6M isk in bounties worth of BSs, and you have to logoff cause you can't kill the frig that is warp jamming you cause your drones got killed when you disconnected earlier that day. yeah, suckage. good game
Megan Maynard Minmatar RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:30:00 - [32] Originally by: mechtech This is an "out there" idea: Wait for the patch that adds heat and overheating to modules (it is currently in development), and give lasers the ability to cause heat in the opposing ships modules. Maybe even let lasers target specific areas of a ship to overheat (weps, tanking equipment, ect.) That would be fun to use, and make the race more unique... awesome idea, i approve.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:38:00 - [33] A 10% reduction of the grid cost of all lasers would be a good start. Dulce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.11 23:01:00 - [34] Edited by: Goumindong on 11/02/2007 22:59:05 Originally by: Dark Shikari Amarr problem is simple, and similar to what you stated. Almost all Amarr T1 ships have only one bonus, because of the cap usage bonus that doesn't actually do anything except help them use their own weapons. Solution is simple: Lower all laser base cap usage by 35%, and replace all those bonuses with something useful. Amarr is good again. That doesnt solve the problem. At 35% the cap use is still too high[40% at least would be nessesary, 45-50% would be better]. As well, lasers really do have other problems, especialy tech 1 lasers. The second half of the laser problem is that lasers, unlike all other turret systems do not have viable downfitting options. The difference between Heavy Pulses and Focused Medium Pulses is greater than the difference between Electron Blasters and Neutron Blasters[which is greater than the difference between 180mm ACs and 425 ACs], and the powergrid saved is less. There isnt even anything close to an ion/220 equilvelent. This trend continues accross all ranges of weapons, large, small, short and long. Another problem for Amarr is their long optimal range for their short range guns. This seems counter intuitive, but because Amarr depend on doing damage before other ships get close[typicaly at a gun damage disadvantage over blasters and autocannons], the range reductions on tech 1 ammo result in larger penalties. I.E. if a tech 1 amarr ship is shooting at a tech 1 Gallente ship, the Gallente ship looses 1.5km from using antimatter and the amarr ship 7.5km from using multifrequency. The 7.5km would turn into about 3-5 seconds of extra firing the amarr could do before the Gallente got to him. While the 1.5km would be 1 second. I.E. Tech 1 ammo choices penalize amarr more than any race. These three items, combined with the lack of real bonuses on amarran ships, as well as the almost useless "utility" high slot[as it typically cannot be fitted due to CPU or PG constrains] make up the majority of the Amarr tech 1 defecit. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.11 23:08:00 - [35] Originally by: Queen Lo I mean jees, try tachyon sniping in an abaddon. Those babies use almost 100 cap per shot if iirc. Put 8 of those on with heatsinks, with a rof of around 8 seconds, and that is 100 cap /sec just for the guns alone. Too much. No way. Abaddon cap recharge blows. The ship can have a helluva alpha strike but it is out and down for the count in practically no time. I use an Abaddon when missioning and with 3 cap rigs and two Cap Recharger-IIs I can just hold my cap steady shooting my guns (dual modulated heavy energy beams) and running my active tank w/out the single armor rep running. Once my armor rep gets going the cap slowly dwindles to zero. I cannot imagine what Tachs would do to that. My beams use 21 cap per shot. Tachs use 95. So, 168 cap per volley versus 760! I don't think so.
PutShoe OnHead Not Even Doom Music	Posted - 2007.02.12 00:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Scav Silver Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 21:19:10 How does a "light" based wpn cause EM dmg?? Light is just visible EM radiation.
Redback911	Posted - 2007.02.12 00:39:00 - [37] Just boost the actual capacitors of Amarr ships, then change the Laser capacitor bonus to damage, ROF, tank etc. Job done.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.12 01:27:00 - [38] Originally by: Redback911 Just boost the actual capacitors of Amarr ships, then change the Laser capacitor bonus to damage, ROF, tank etc. Job done. Doesnt work, it would make amarr have ridiculous tanks with blasters or autocannons ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
diabolic clone Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.12 01:43:00 - [39] To the OP As an amarr newb I think the solution is not to boost amarr. It is to nerf every other race as hard as amarr were nerfed. Almost ALL our ships are laser gunboats and lasers are scaled down to be fit on every ship in game and sustainable (to an extent) on amarr ships. Anyway I like amarr ships but I'll be disapointed if they got just a cap bonus like apocalypse or cap recharge I'll just get nos'd anyway or run my rep too long
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.12 02:23:00 - [40] Originally by: diabolic clone To the OP As an amarr newb I think the solution is not to boost amarr. It is to nerf every other race as hard as amarr were nerfed. Almost ALL our ships are laser gunboats and lasers are scaled down to be fit on every ship in game and sustainable (to an extent) on amarr ships. Anyway I like amarr ships but I'll be disapointed if they got just a cap bonus like apocalypse or cap recharge I'll just get nos'd anyway or run my rep too long I don't think this is a good idea. The other races, save for broken things like the Nos-domi (which is really only good for 1v1 or small gang fights) and everything being nano'ed to hell and back now, are relatively balanced. Just like some other folks were saying about how they weep when they use Tachyons -- a 50% reduction in cap use would put them much closer to on par with their railgun counterpart (425mm). Now you don't have people complaining about their cap running out just from firing guns (how dumb is that?). Combine that with controlled bursts level 5, and you still are using around 36 cap a shot per turret -- my Invulnerability Field uses less cap (How dumb is that?). It is my opinion that the other races are fairly close to being balanced, but Amarr are just the ugly duckling of the bunch. From a developer standpoint, it would be easier to buff 1 race and work on fixing them through 2-3 patches (which they have to do in every major patch, anyways), than it would be to nerf the other 3 races, and work on balancing that mess. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.12 03:15:00 - [41] Originally by: PutShoe OnHead Originally by: Scav Silver Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 21:19:10 How does a "light" based wpn cause EM dmg?? Light is just visible EM radiation. OMG YOUR CORP NOTHING IS SAFE FROM NEDM! Half Assed Rhymage
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.02.12 03:24:00 - [42] grant amarr lasers a target painting bonus? I mean if your using a target painter which is probably a medium beam laser with radio s anyways why not just have lasers give a target painting effect? It would solve some of the problems. Second is greatly increase tracking speed, i cant hit anything with pulses or beams because they transverse too much or are too small. ------------- Midshipman Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.12 06:14:00 - [43] Originally by: Lithalnas grant amarr lasers a target painting bonus? I mean if your using a target painter which is probably a medium beam laser with radio s anyways why not just have lasers give a target painting effect? It would solve some of the problems. Second is greatly increase tracking speed, i cant hit anything with pulses or beams because they transverse too much or are too small. Ummm...that's the point of all turrets. A battlecruiser isn't designed to hit an interceptor, and target painting would not help against battleship class ships. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.12 07:37:00 - [44] Imho the fitting requirements for the top lasers are the problem, especially for t1 frigates/cruisers. You simply can't fit them, even if you have some powergrid left it won't be enough to make a sensible setup. That goes even for tech 1 lasers, forget using the tech 2 version.
Bugszor Caldari The Redeeming Age	Posted - 2007.02.12 08:36:00 - [45] i am a Caldari pilot flying Amarrian ships. why? cause amarians are different then the rest. people keep saying they're nerfed and bad and stuff. i do have to say. i run from nosdomis noss are a pain in the ass for amarr. and amarr has some MAYOR fitting problems. but how come. at the time that you talk about problems. i shoot down a raven with ease? check this out. abaddon has 8 highslots. ever frigging thought of fitting 4 heavy diminishings and 4 mega modulated? USE YOUR WEAKNES AS A ADVANTAGE! noss the foockers dry and keep yours running. now dont go blabbing about "yeah but they wil still shoot me!!" boy. if you cant take out a active tanked raven without cap in the time he gets through your armor. you should stop paying for eve and go play in traffic. (dont forget to gimme ur stuff) i've been flying amarr for 2 years now. i gatecamp with it PERFECTLY. why? with my skills my optimal range is 15 km with multispec on my mega modulated wich means. optimal range when they jump in. lol no really.. the only thing that should be nice for amarr is a PGU reduction so we can atleast fit our highslots good while still having a normal tank that is all. PS: Get a bhaalgorn. its not expensive and ahs the 50% cap reduction and even noss bonus! maybe then you stop whining. OR.... get 3 cap rigs. i did it without any cap rigs i just had my tank uppened so i had lowslots over for RCUt2 :) amarr is a pain in the beginning. but when bitten through that hard time. you have a race that no one can understand cause we just rule. period :) ------------------------------------ Dont make me bug you... Originally by: Nex Angelus Perhaps it was a Bugszor
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.12 08:46:00 - [46] Idea: Let the Amarr load cap booster charges into their lasers in a limited quantity to reduce/eliminate capacitor use.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.12 08:52:00 - [47] Originally by: James Duar Idea: Let the Amarr load cap booster charges into their lasers in a limited quantity to reduce/eliminate capacitor use. Aside from the problems of writing that into the game, cap booster charges arent exactly small. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 09:28:00 - [48] Oh, another buff Amarr thread It's fine, learn2play Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Redback911	Posted - 2007.02.12 09:44:00 - [49] Originally by: Bugszor check this out. abaddon has 8 highslots. ever frigging thought of fitting 4 heavy diminishings and 4 mega modulated? USE YOUR WEAKNES AS A ADVANTAGE! noss the foockers dry and keep yours running. period :) Dont ever let me catch you using that setup. Abaddon was made to kill stuff, not pansy about. Fit 8 guns and that Raven will be smoke without even turning your repper on. Nosdomis the same, bring on dual rep tank it dont matter, abaddon kills all.
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.02.12 09:47:00 - [50] Amarr ships are great, lasers are the problems. I think it would do well for them to scratch the 10% cap usage for lasers "bonus" and reduce the cap usage on them. "but they have in build damage!" ; as it stands lasers arent more powerful than other turrets anyway and take a hell of a lot to fit, how many restrictions do they need? Amarrs fitting advantage for lasers should be their powergrid not the bonus. Its often blown out of proportion how bad lasers are against armor. On most t2 ships and decent tanked ships all resistances are about the same and lasers cut through shields much faster so they can get to work on the armor sooner than other turrets. EANM + DC ect.. They do slightly ruin things for lasers i cant think of what can be done about them without ruining active hardener tanks. --- Advantage of scratching the 10% cap usage bonus would be giving amarr ships a bit of versatility or whatever they are lacking currently, its annoying rather than having a good variety of ships we have ships trying to compete with eachother. The ships themselves are great, they have good cap, good powergrid, good tanks but it will be just so much nicer to see a second notable bonus in place.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:01:00 - [51] Originally by: Moraguth If we really wanna go into the awesomeness of never having to buy ammo for amarr, ...... Back on the topic of crystals: I love not having to buy ammo. I can use my cargo for looting/salvaging, AND i can stay in deep 0.0 being a hermit without having to go back to a station for a VERY long time. I only have to go back if i get found and destroyed, or if i disconnect too many times and my drones are gone. It is really demeaning when you've just killed off 6M isk in bounties worth of BSs, and you have to logoff cause you can't kill the frig that is warp jamming you cause your drones got killed when you disconnected earlier that day. yeah, suckage. Unfortunately as convinient as no ammo use is for pve its the major reason Amarr are gimped pvp wise without uber skills and exspensive T2/Faction fits.. Ammo for Amarr is cap and in pvp cap is life.. Guess were that leaves us in a firefight with both the tank and the gank eating it up.. Dred'Pirate Jesus.. Not a Dev or BoB alt ..or am I?
Bugszor Caldari The Redeeming Age	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:03:00 - [52] Edited by: Bugszor on 12/02/2007 10:03:28 Originally by: Redback911 Originally by: Bugszor check this out. abaddon has 8 highslots. ever frigging thought of fitting 4 heavy diminishings and 4 mega modulated? USE YOUR WEAKNES AS A ADVANTAGE! noss the foockers dry and keep yours running. period :) Dont ever let me catch you using that setup. Abaddon was made to kill stuff, not pansy about. Fit 8 guns and that Raven will be smoke without even turning your repper on. Nosdomis the same, bring on dual rep tank it dont matter, abaddon kills all. wanna try? your abaddon versus mine. :) u'd be dead with cap and i'll be slowly shooting you to smithereens my friend. face it. without cap you're useless in your abaddon. edit:typos ------------------------------------ Dont make me bug you... Originally by: Nex Angelus Perhaps it was a Bugszor
diabolic clone Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:52:00 - [53] Originally by: Bugszor Edited by: Bugszor on 12/02/2007 10:03:28 Originally by: Redback911 Originally by: Bugszor check this out. abaddon has 8 highslots. ever frigging thought of fitting 4 heavy diminishings and 4 mega modulated? USE YOUR WEAKNES AS A ADVANTAGE! noss the foockers dry and keep yours running. period :) Dont ever let me catch you using that setup. Abaddon was made to kill stuff, not pansy about. Fit 8 guns and that Raven will be smoke without even turning your repper on. Nosdomis the same, bring on dual rep tank it dont matter, abaddon kills all. wanna try? your abaddon versus mine. :) u'd be dead with cap and i'll be slowly shooting you to smithereens my friend. face it. without cap you're useless in your abaddon. edit:typos lol heavey nos range 26 kilometers tachyon II 40km Amarr ships have huge mass, unless you fit a microwarp drive and kill your cap/tank I doubt you'd have a chance since it is unlikely your fight would start at that close of a range unless you jumped in on eachother at a gate.
Max Godsnottlingson Amarr Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:19:00 - [54] Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 12/02/2007 11:16:49 You know. I've been in Eve right from the start, and have never played anything other then Amarr, and generally only ever fly Amarr ships. Sure, they both have their weaknesses, but I'd not have them anyother way. That is the challenge of playing Amarr for me. Remember. Any Amarr ship that has a drone bay or missile launcher hard points doen't have to be limited to EM/Thermal damage. Nor is it manditory to fit lasers to Amarr ships, granted it may take some lateral thinking to get them working well, but a loadout of Projectile turrets on an Amarr ship can cause some nasty damage.Especially against a player pirate, who hunts Amarr, and who is tanked against EM/Thermal damage, It can be a very, very nasty surprise
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:41:00 - [55] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 12/02/2007 11:38:15 Originally by: Max Godsnottlingson Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 12/02/2007 11:16:49 You know. I've been in Eve right from the start, and have never played anything other then Amarr, and generally only ever fly Amarr ships. Sure, they both have their weaknesses, but I'd not have them anyother way. That is the challenge of playing Amarr for me. Remember. Any Amarr ship that has a drone bay or missile launcher hard points doen't have to be limited to EM/Thermal damage. Nor is it manditory to fit lasers to Amarr ships, granted it may take some lateral thinking to get them working well, but a loadout of Projectile turrets on an Amarr ship can cause some nasty damage.Especially against a player pirate, who hunts Amarr, and who is tanked against EM/Thermal damage, It can be a very, very nasty surprise Indeed.. Just imagine the look on a Blasterthron pilots face as he mwds up to a geddon and finds himself nossed webbed and scrambled with BS sized AC ripping him to shreads as the uber tank you can fit with projectiles shrugs off his blasterboat with ease.. Dred'Pirate Jesus.. Not a Dev or BoB alt ..or am I?
Clurk Brodon CthulhuFhtagn	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:11:00 - [56] Amarrs are so great they need to fit AC to be effective.
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:18:00 - [57] hehe i will tell you why amarr is a nice race.. ( im an amarr pilot) abaddon 8 tach II, 3 damage mods ( death to anything in fleet!) pilgrim.. death to anything with 3+ of these ships curse.. solo doom! intys.. catch me if you can enough PG to fit atleast 50/50 nos/guns small but valuble drone bays! consider this situation.. abaddon with 8 tach II is having a hard time killing a rohk.. ( lol.. like that would ever happen) abaddon calls for backup.. [enter the curse!] curse engages and sucks the rohk dry.. bye bye tank. abaddon rapes the rohk in seconds --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:21:00 - [58] Originally by: Tisanta hehe i will tell you why amarr is a nice race.. ( im an amarr pilot) abaddon 8 tach II, 3 damage mods ( death to anything in fleet!) pilgrim.. death to anything with 3+ of these ships curse.. solo doom! intys.. catch me if you can enough PG to fit atleast 50/50 nos/guns small but valuble drone bays! consider this situation.. abaddon with 8 tach II is having a hard time killing a rohk.. ( lol.. like that would ever happen) abaddon calls for backup.. [enter the curse!] curse engages and sucks the rohk dry.. bye bye tank. abaddon rapes the rohk in seconds Yay, now find something positive about any non-battleship tech 1 amarr ship besides the a-typical arbitrator.
Onchas Erivvia The Andromeda Directorate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:30:00 - [59] Originally by: Taedrin Amarrs problem is not with their ships, but with their guns. Their ships are just about the best armor tankers out there. The problem is entirely with lasers. Lasers just aren't useful enough against armor. IMO the best way to handle Amarr is to change them from dealing EM/Thermal damage to EM/Explosive. If by "handle" you mean "uber them out to be the best thing on wheels", yeah, I guess that is a way to do it. EM/Explosive? Seriously? Please. If you really want to follow your line of reasoning, just upping the Thermal part of their damage-dealing a tiny bit would help them get through armour without making them able to melt everything in sight. ------------------------------------------ 'Teh Onchinator' Personal Assistant to MrsPitman
C4rnage	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:35:00 - [60] Sure I love my zealot, but only 4 turrets an no drones for instance going against a deimos or cerb or ishtar I mean it seems a little imbalanced, but dont get me wrong Zealot is an awesome HAC.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:41:00 - [61] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/02/2007 15:38:18 As someone who thought that the abaddon sucks, and could not understand the point of it, I have changed my mind. Almost all my kills are either in a Pilgrim, Curse or Caldari ships, with the odd apoc smartbomb kill. This was until I found out about the ingenious abaddon setup's for fleet warfare (i.e full rack of tach's) It is the perfect fleet battleship...... When setup correctly. And by correctly, I do not mean these half assed setups on the forums. And by setup, I mean good rigs. And by good rigs, I do not mean cap rigs. Think and you will understand. Now to finish Amarr BS lvl5 --
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:52:00 - [62] Screw it what are ammar willing to lose to gain this cap reduction? Ammo that never runs out? (unless tech 2) Higher damage mod on guns? Or we could give a EM res increase on shilds to compisate for it. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Master Spoonman Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:02:00 - [63] Originally by: Taedrin Amarrs problem is not with their ships, but with their guns. Their ships are just about the best armor tankers out there. The problem is entirely with lasers. Lasers just aren't useful enough against armor. IMO the best way to handle Amarr is to change them from dealing EM/Thermal damage to EM/Explosive. Precisely! I know it isn't logical physics-wise (but really, what in this game is?), but there needs to be more variation in crystal types/damage types for lasers. Sure we can go through shields fast enough, but once we hit armour we're pretty useless. Also, capacitor is a huge problem with Amarr ships. I often use Minnie guns on my Amarr ships just because I can't afford cap for any tank at all when I have lasers equipped. I played pure Amarr for about my first two months into the game. After that, I switched to Caldari, and it felt like going from 'Extremely hard' to 'Bloody easy' mode. *** Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:03:00 - [64] Well, EM/Explosive crystals might be the wrong idea. However, turning all Amarr ships into faction ships (3 bonuses instead of 2) is also the wrong idea. So far the only idea here that makes much sense is to reduce cap consumption on lasers and remove the cap bonus from ships and give it something more useful.
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium Kurai Komichi	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:50:00 - [65] I love my Amarr ships. (Having said that those of you with unthinking biasas can now tune me out and the rest can keep reading.) PVP in EVE is the best ballanced PVP I've ever played, at least in a MMO. If you look every race has a couple major skills they need to be effective. Minmitar must learn both their guns and missles. I also hear that they armor and shield tank though I've not had that confirmed. Caldari Missles, Shields. And yeah you have to put a lot of work sp wise to make that tank work. Galentee, Hybreds and Drones. Amarr? You guessed it Gunnery and Cap. If you raise the two basic cap skills to 4 you eliminate nearly all of your cap based problems. Then you fit the odd CPR, look the named ones give better than 20% bost to cpu recharge now! Also am I the only one who noticed, and rejoyced, when they increased all capacitors size by 25%? That opened a slot on nearly every T1 ship I fly. In all my time with Amarr, I've been activly and happily engaged in PVP and I only fit lasers, when I win and when I lose comes down a lot more to relative sp between pilots and tatics used than wether or not my EM dammage was gimped. My only beef is that with Weapon Upgrades 5 and AWU 4 I still find it hard to fit beam lasers onto frigates. Also I'd like it if the Retribution had a 2nd mid slot, I'll trade you one of the lows.. For those of you endlessly wasting your time with Multifreq, Drop em. Fit Gammas instead. What you lose in dammage you more than make up for in the increased range and the 50% drop in cap use. My Apoc shoots its Megapulses for a measly 13 energy per shot. About the reloads, It's not the ammo in your bay that we are laughing at, well unless you are pve and can't haul the loot, it's that 10 secconds you waste refiling your whatever while I get a free repair cycle and keep blasting away. Worked great for me against a Raven just the other night. Or how about that by dedicating a tiny percentage of my cargo to a 2nd set of crystals I can hit effectivly at whatever range combat is likely to occur? One final point, w/o endorsing the idea, Lasers could do explosive dammage if we suggest that there is so much energy transfer from being hit by them that objects superheat and explode. (yay David Webber). Having said that I'll keep my EM and Therm thanks.
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:00:00 - [66] Why not just have amarr damage types switched. So instead of Em primary, therm secondary ... its Therm primary and em secondary. Would be a simple change in the DB. It even makes sense from an RP perspective. 0_0 I do agree with other posters, the no-ammo and instant reload are huge bonuses to amarr that are often overlooked. What would be nice would be a macro "switch all crystals to multifreq" or something, instead of clicking X amount of times to change ammo. But thats another topic. (man everyone would love that i would bet)
Saarin	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:37:00 - [67] Hmm an idea I have not seen before... though mebbe I missed it... Introduce Ammo for Energy weapons in the form of batteries which hold X number of charges. Might fix a large number of issues.. Dunno how we'll ever solve the damage type thing though...
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:43:00 - [68] I think the only real improvement Amarr could be given without breaking their racial design is a much, much bigger Armor buffer when compared to Gallente. Just leave lasers alone, with all their problems. Give us a holy motherfiretruck of an armor buffer, not this '500 more here 900 more there' when compared to Gallente like it is now.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.12 21:51:00 - [69] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/02/2007 15:38:18 As someone who thought that the abaddon sucks, and could not understand the point of it, I have changed my mind. Almost all my kills are either in a Pilgrim, Curse or Caldari ships, with the odd apoc smartbomb kill. This was until I found out about the ingenious abaddon setup's for fleet warfare (i.e full rack of tach's) It is the perfect fleet battleship...... When setup correctly. And by correctly, I do not mean these half assed setups on the forums. And by setup, I mean good rigs. And by good rigs, I do not mean cap rigs. Think and you will understand. Now to finish Amarr BS lvl5 Abaddon setup like so < Geddon set up like so. Geddon will be cheaper, have more relative hit points, will do a measly 2.2% less damage than the Abaddon and will be able to fire its guns without running out of capacitor. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Frothgar Caldari Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.02.12 21:54:00 - [70] How about in response to the new Heat system upcoming give amarr some portion of the damage from lasers as heat which can overload the enemy's systems. Also allow them to regulate heat more efficiently than the other races. IMO that would prolly do it.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.02.12 21:55:00 - [71] How about if the cap use and damage is reduced on the base guns, and Amarr ships are given a 5% dmg per level bonus instead of the 10% cap use reduction per level? It wouldn't really change anything, but would at least make a few people happy. Other than that I don't really know what could be done to Amarr without completely changing their entire philosophy of tank tank tank!! t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Scav Silver Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.13 01:56:00 - [72] Originally by: Aarin Wrath I do agree with other posters, the no-ammo and instant reload are huge bonuses to amarr that are often overlooked. What would be nice would be a macro "switch all crystals to multifreq" or something, instead of clicking X amount of times to change ammo. But thats another topic. (man everyone would love that i would bet) Pls do.. I'm tired of ppl tellin' me how great no ammo is.. When infact T2 crystals do fall apart.. ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.02.13 02:32:00 - [73] Edited by: X99 Z990 on 13/02/2007 02:30:04 Alternatives to 10% cap reduction per level. Crucifier - 10% bonus to tracking disruptor optimal range. Executioner - 7.5% bonus to small energy turret tracking speed. Crusader - Interceptors - 7.5% tracking bonus changed to 10% optimal range bonus. Malediction - Interceptors - Retain its current bonuses. Punisher - 5% bonus to small energy turret thermal damage output. Vengeance - Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses but has 5% thermal damage output on frigate level. Retribution - Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses but has 5% thermal damage output on frigate level. Omen - 10% bonus to medium energy turret accuracy falloff. Zealot - Heavy Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Maller - 5% bonus to medium energy turret thermal damage output. Sacrilege - Heavy Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Prophecy - 5% bonus to medium energy turret thermal damage output. Damnation - Command Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Absolution - Command Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Harbinger - 5% bonus to drone velocity and tracking speed. Armageddon - 10% bonus to large energy turret accuracy falloff. Apocalypse - 10% bonus to scan resolution and targeting range. These are only examples of new roles and flavour amarr ships can get if they remove the laser cap usage and build it into the guns.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.13 03:17:00 - [74] Originally by: Aarin Wrath Why not just have amarr damage types switched. So instead of Em primary, therm secondary ... its Therm primary and em secondary. Would be a simple change in the DB. It even makes sense from an RP perspective. 0_0 I think most Amarr posters would agree to this.. /signed
gfldex	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:03:00 - [75] Amarr ships problem is simply that they got three problems at once. They are to low on PG, to low on CPU and their guns use to much cap. All the the same time. No other race got that many problems. With the combat prolongment Amarr ships are now forced to fit a cap injector. In every pvp situation they have to use one! That means they carry the ammo for 4 1/2 minutes of fighting. Limit the cargo bay of ammo using ships by the same degree and you would have protestors in Jita around the clock. My proposal would be the following. Increase PG and CPU off nearly all Amarr ships by the same amount their cap injectors need. Increase the reload time of cap injectors to 3 minutes to make ppl die that run out of cap after they burned a clip of cap charges. Decrease the size of cap charges so charges for 4 1/2 minutes will fit in. As a side effect all players that tend to loot cap charges will love you. -- Number of pilots that logged while I scrambled, bubbles or shooten them: 9.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.13 05:24:00 - [76] Honestly i like the cap reduction bonus on laser guns as the amarr bonus, makes them unqiue, but there laser need to deliver more damage to compensate for armor tankers which is about 3/4 of eve anyway. Amarr battleships are good so as their bc and their recon ships. The crusader is a nice ship as well but its dmg is not as good as it should be compared to other ceptors. The zealot is good but their other ships are pretty weak. They have the worse AF. The retribution delivers huge dmg for a frig but is so limited by only having 1 mid slot. The problem with amarr is they are not a great solo ship, more of a good large gang group. But honestly ppl fear and domi, falcon/rook, arazu and others over the amarr ships. Is it that other races are overpowered compared to amarr or amarr just weaker? Give the amarr ships more dps against armor tanks. Thats my 2cents. And yes im caldari but i do fly amarr t2 cruisers atm but prefer caldari and gal frigs.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 06:36:00 - [77] Originally by: X99 Z990 Snip Those are terrible suggestions. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.02.13 06:56:00 - [78] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: X99 Z990 Snip Those are terrible suggestions. Indeed, i like the idea of a crusader with 10% optimal bonus though.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.13 09:11:00 - [79] Originally by: Goumindong Abaddon setup like so < Geddon set up like so. Geddon will be cheaper, have more relative hit points, will do a measly 2.2% less damage than the Abaddon and will be able to fire its guns without running out of capacitor. Not so! Again - Avoid the crappy setups on the forums and do not get stuck in the trap of "must fit cap rigs" --
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 09:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Goumindong Abaddon setup like so < Geddon set up like so. Geddon will be cheaper, have more relative hit points, will do a measly 2.2% less damage than the Abaddon and will be able to fire its guns without running out of capacitor. Not so! Again - Avoid the crappy setups on the forums and do not get stuck in the trap of "must fit cap rigs" Uhhh no. I know exactly how you plan on setting up that Abaddon, and a Geddon does it better and cheaper. Pulse or Tachs. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.02.13 09:40:00 - [81] Originally by: X99 Z990 Armageddon - 10% bonus to large energy turret accuracy falloff. Lasers + falloff bonus? t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.13 11:27:00 - [82] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/02/2007 11:25:38 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Goumindong Abaddon setup like so < Geddon set up like so. Geddon will be cheaper, have more relative hit points, will do a measly 2.2% less damage than the Abaddon and will be able to fire its guns without running out of capacitor. Not so! Again - Avoid the crappy setups on the forums and do not get stuck in the trap of "must fit cap rigs" Uhhh no. I know exactly how you plan on setting up that Abaddon, and a Geddon does it better and cheaper. Pulse or Tachs. Nope. You dont know what I am thinking. And 8 x T2 Tach's are the end result. You want to know the fitout? My answer is in my sig. Remember - I was the ultimate Anti-Abaddon supporter. Now things have changed. The Abaddon is pretty much the ultimate fleetship. --
Grytok	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:10:00 - [83] No problem for me with PG or CPU on Amarr-Ships Skills to have @ LvL 5 for PewPew: Electronics, Engineering, EnergySystemsOperation, EnergyManagement, WeaponUpgrades, AdvancedWeaponUpgrades, ControlledBursts, and the ShipSkill itself preferably. OK, the switch from EM to Thermal as the primary damage would be nice, but not necessarily needed. And CapProblems, because I'm NOSsed dry? Show me the one Active-Tank-Ship that doesn't die to NOS, except the ones who are equipped with the same amount of NOS. Fact is: I kill things quicker with a Harbinger then with a Brutix (7xPulse vs. 7xBlaster), and the skills for Hybrid and Energy-Weapons are exactly the same. .
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:17:00 - [84] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 13/02/2007 12:14:11 Quote: And CapProblems, because I'm NOSsed dry? Show me the one Active-Tank-Ship that doesn't die to NOS, except the ones who are equipped with the same amount of NOS. The problem is that when an Amarrian ship is drained of it's cap, it can't use its weapons. The same cannot be said of Caldari ships, Minmatar ships, and some Gallentean ships. Furthermore, only the Apocalypse has a significantly better recharge rate than the other equivalent tier battleships. The Typhoon, Scorpion and Dominix all have more or less the same recharge rate as the Armageddon, and yet can devote pretty much all of their cap to tanking. Dulce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Mortim Minmatar Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:31:00 - [85] I think part of the beauty of this game is that it ISN'T balanced, and future changes, nerfs and additional features will indeed change certain aspects of current situations. Best just to sit tight and go with the flow in my opinion, leave making everything 100% quantified, level and balanced whilst ripping all sense of originality out of the game to Blizzard. Yes, yes I went there... Mort
Mortim Minmatar Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:31:00 - [86] I think part of the beauty of this game is that it ISN'T balanced, and future changes, nerfs and additional features will indeed change certain aspects of current situations. Best just to sit tight and go with the flow in my opinion, leave making everything 100% quantified, level and balanced whilst ripping all sense of originality out of the game to Blizzard. Yes, yes I went there... Mort
Leilani Solaris Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.13 13:45:00 - [87] Originally by: Taedrin Amarrs problem is not with their ships, but with their guns. Their ships are just about the best armor tankers out there. The problem is entirely with lasers. Lasers just aren't useful enough against armor. IMO the best way to handle Amarr is to change them from dealing EM/Thermal damage to EM/Explosive. The problem isn't with the damage types. EM/Thermal is fine. The problem vs armour tanks lies in the 2 eanm/dcu tank. Giving roughly 85% em/thermal resists with decent skills. Thus meaning you are only doing an average of 15% of your total DPS. Against shield tankers it's not too bad seeing as they start with low em resists anyway. The cap is only a problem when you come to shoot and tank, and with the low amount of mid slots it's not always possible to fit a cap booster without sacrificing a web or speed mod etc. I think i remember reading a dev response a while ago though that amarr is in line for a boost, no idea when though. Outbreak Killboard
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 15:13:00 - [88] Edited by: Goumindong on 13/02/2007 15:12:02 Originally by: Lord WarATron Nope. You dont know what I am thinking. And 8 x T2 Tach's are the end result. You want to know the fitout? My answer is in my sig. Remember - I was the ultimate Anti-Abaddon supporter. Now things have changed. The Abaddon is pretty much the ultimate fleetship. Your answer is "I dont know what im talking about, and dont have a setup that trumps the Armageddon"? If you say so. As they say, proof or stfu. I suppose you choose to stfu. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.13 16:44:00 - [89] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/02/2007 16:41:19 Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 13/02/2007 15:12:02 Originally by: Lord WarATron Nope. You dont know what I am thinking. And 8 x T2 Tach's are the end result. You want to know the fitout? My answer is in my sig. Remember - I was the ultimate Anti-Abaddon supporter. Now things have changed. The Abaddon is pretty much the ultimate fleetship. Your answer is "I dont know what im talking about, and dont have a setup that trumps the Armageddon"? If you say so. As they say, proof or stfu. I suppose you choose to stfu. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. The form follows function. On a pure isk/damage ratio, the Corcerer is probebly the king ship in the game. Does that mean everyone should be flying around in Corcerer's? Theory is one thing, and practical reality is another. I will reveal my setup in the battlefield first. --
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 17:21:00 - [90] Originally by: Lord WarATron The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. The form follows function. On a pure isk/damage ratio, the Corcerer is probebly the king ship in the game. Does that mean everyone should be flying around in Corcerer's? Theory is one thing, and practical reality is another. I will reveal my setup in the battlefield first. I.E. you dont have it... The Geddon does it better AND cheaper. Not just cheaper. Not "isk/damage" ratio. Just plain better. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.02.13 17:54:00 - [91] Originally by: Bugszor check this out. abaddon has 8 highslots. Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.02.13 17:57:00 - [92] Originally by: X99 Z990 Amarr ships are great, lasers are the problems. I think it would do well for them to scratch the 10% cap usage for lasers "bonus" and reduce the cap usage on them. "but they have in build damage!" ; as it stands lasers arent more powerful than other turrets anyway and take a hell of a lot to fit, how many restrictions do they need? Amarrs fitting advantage for lasers should be their powergrid not the bonus. Its often blown out of proportion how bad lasers are against armor. On most t2 ships and decent tanked ships all resistances are about the same and lasers cut through shields much faster so they can get to work on the armor sooner than other turrets. EANM + DC ect.. They do slightly ruin things for lasers i cant think of what can be done about them without ruining active hardener tanks. --- Advantage of scratching the 10% cap usage bonus would be giving amarr ships a bit of versatility or whatever they are lacking currently, its annoying rather than having a good variety of ships we have ships trying to compete with eachother. The ships themselves are great, they have good cap, good powergrid, good tanks but it will be just so much nicer to see a second notable bonus in place. geddon with 5% damage 5% rof per level... yummy....
Iktoe Amarr Darkspear Industrial	Posted - 2007.02.13 18:59:00 - [93] PG upgrade would satisfy me for T1.
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:29:00 - [94] my Approuch for fixing some obvios amarr Problems is two way. 1) Fix Ship Roles 2) Fix Stats of Lasers 1) Gankships: Missingfrig - Coercer - Omen - Harbinger - Armageddon - Revelation --> First Bonus 5% Rof or Damage --> Second Bonus 7,5% Tracking Tankships: Punisher - Tier2 DD - Maller - Prophecy - Abaddon - Tier 2 Dread --> First Bonus: 10% Cap or 5% Cap Rechargerate --> Second Bonus: 5% Armor Resistances Supportships: Crucifier - Arbitrator - Redesigned Apocalypse --> First Bonus: 5%Strength or 10%Range Tracking Disruptor --> Second Bonus: 10%Drone(Cru/Arb) 10% EM Missile dmg (apo) Oddoneouts: Inquisitor - Auguror --> both crap, evry race needs this ^^ Changes to ships to reflect Progression Lines: -Cruzifier: 10-15m¦ Dronespace -Omen: More Powergrid -Maller: More Powergrid -Apocalypse: 6/6/6 Layout, 4 Turret 5 Launcher Less Grid More CPU The New Apoc is a blend between the Inquisitor and the Cruzifier on Battleship scale, no omghaxoverpowered Drone BS (i wish it was) but a good skirmisher which rapes Shilds and gives EW Support) 2) Laser Stats: -Reduce Capneed from all Lasers by 25%, increase Damage by 20%, keep high Grid to prevent Gallente Scum from abusing them on their I-Win Mobiles. -Reduce Grid on Medium Beam/Pulse to 12/10 for T1 and 14/11 for T2 Amarr fixed. ________________ Kali 2.0 Patchnotes; "Cleared old and useless Database entries": 1) All Amarr Ships have been deleted
DrEiak Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.14 05:51:00 - [95] Edited by: DrEiak on 14/02/2007 05:49:33 I will be honest, I didnt read this at all, but I have been posting all kinds of stuff on this topic for some time. I am getting tired of finding new material to support my arguments, but I am sure that I disagree with most of the material in this post save for the punch line. But as a closing comment I bought a drake just for the sake of seeing just exactly how underpowered amarr is, and I must say, with Tech 1 mods and crap skills (for caldari) I can tank LvL 3 missions that a Tech 2 modded prophecy could never dream of tanking, AND i can do it without using any capacitor.... OH also forgot to add how EASY it is to fit caldari ships, amarr ships are tight on both PG and CPU, caldari have troubles with neither. AND considering that gallente and minmataar ships have ~same grid/cpu or very similar it seems kinda odd how easy autocannons are to fit (plus the fact that they easily outdmg blasters which ALSO use cap) seems a little jacked up. I know that even the devs mostly play as caldari, so its no surprise to me that amarr gets no luv. take away double damage bonus on minmataar (mainly RoF)and replace with something else (mainly due to autocannons), boost artillery(RoF), (ASSUMING ALL PREVIOUS CHANGES) boost autocannon dmg (slightly), make controlled burst 10%, Remove 10% laser cap usage from ALL AMARR SHIPS (in lue of a REAL bonus), reduce base laser cap usage by 25%, Fix Gleam (its worthless), make khanid not suck, make I stabs do MORE for small ships then big ships (aka make mass reduction static NOT percentage), boost amarr CPU on certain ships (mainly khanid ships).... That is in a nutshell what needs to happen with absolutly NO reasons whatsoever to justify them because if you search for my previous posts in the forums you will come accross all the math and proof you can shake a stick at and i HATE retypeing stuff...
Almarez	Posted - 2007.02.14 06:17:00 - [96] Originally by: SonOTassadar Originally by: Dark Shikari Amarr problem is simple, and similar to what you stated. Almost all Amarr T1 ships have only one bonus, because of the cap usage bonus that doesn't actually do anything except help them use their own weapons. Solution is simple: Lower all laser base cap usage by 35%, and replace all those bonuses with something useful. Amarr is good again. The problem arises then, with other races, and with Tech2 ships. Tech2 ships are fine. They don't really need to be changed, so only tech1 ships need a reduction in cap. The other thing is that could bring it to a level where other races are using the turrets on their ships. I know some guys who, back when we were in Empire mission-running, would put on small hybrid turrets on their torpedo ravens to take out smaller ships when the mission was drone-bugged. I think CCP doesn't want anyone using energy turrets except amarr. I disagree, the powergrid requirements of lasers would make it nearly impossible for other race ships to use them. In all honesty there are several problems with Amarr. I can live with lack of flexibility somewhat but it does make Amarr ships very predictable. The two damage types are terrible especially with the high base resistances to EM on all armor. I mean have you seen T2 Minmitar ships, they are impossible to ***** with Amarr ships. Look at the Minmitar command ships, one has 88.75 EM base resists on armor and 62.5 EM base resists on shields. I mean it has higher base resists on the main damage type of the race that is least able to switch among damage types. The other one has 92.5 EM base resists on armor and 75 EM base resists on shields. I mean it leaves lasers with basically one damage type, thermal. Now let's look at their thermal resists. The first, which is the Sleipnir btw, has 58.27 base resists to thermal on armor and 50 on shields. The second being the Claymore has 67.5 and 60 resists on thermal for armor and shields, respectively. So I ask you this, name an Amarr ship that can take out one of these things using traditional Amarr weaponry. Meaning, I don't want to hear any "just use blasters on Amarr ship" arguments because no race should have to go away from their traditional weaponry to be effective. The closest thing I could think of is maybe the Curse if the ships have turrets and the Curse can tracking disrupt and NOS the thing but then again this thing can also carry 4 med drones so who knows. This isn't as bad with the other races but it is what I consider to be the most extreme example.
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2007.02.14 14:55:00 - [97] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 13/02/2007 12:14:11 Quote: And CapProblems, because I'm NOSsed dry? Show me the one Active-Tank-Ship that doesn't die to NOS, except the ones who are equipped with the same amount of NOS. The problem is that when an Amarrian ship is drained of it's cap, it can't use its weapons. The same cannot be said of Minmatar ships, Most Caldari ships and some Gallentean, Ammar ships. Furthermore, only the Apocalypse has a significantly better recharge rate than the other equivalent tier battleships. The Typhoon, Scorpion and Dominix all have more or less the same recharge rate as the Armageddon, and yet can devote pretty much all of their cap to tanking. So you are saying that all Ammar ships have no drone bays and none have any missile slots at all? Oh wait thats not the case so you could make your statement a bit more accurate. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.14 15:01:00 - [98] I really hope CCP won't remoev the 10% cap need reduction. Its a "special" and different bonus, instead of the "usual" RoF, Dam, Tracking and Range... Also makes laser only usefull on Amarr ships. Diversity in the game, FTW
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:23:00 - [99] Originally by: nahtoh So you are saying that all Ammar ships have no drone bays and none have any missile slots at all? Are you saying that all Amarr ships have drones bays and missile slots? --
Sheriff Badden Amarr Legion Federation Amen Anera	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:34:00 - [100] Amarr are supposed to be behind in any technological race, they could use a boost
UPA Terf Scorn.	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:37:00 - [101] truth be told i think the problem is simply solved. Have a story event with a scientific breakthrough and allow amarr ships to use lasers that deliver different kinds of damage on top of thermal or em... simply change the EM damage number to another type and you have a versatile race that isnt too far behind missile users ------------------------------ *~~Scorn~~*
DanMck Amarr Rionnag Alba Veni Vidi Vici .	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:18:00 - [102] Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 13/02/2007 12:14:11 Quote: And CapProblems, because I'm NOSsed dry? Show me the one Active-Tank-Ship that doesn't die to NOS, except the ones who are equipped with the same amount of NOS. The problem is that when an Amarrian ship is drained of it's cap, it can't use its weapons. The same cannot be said of Minmatar ships, Most Caldari ships and some Gallentean, Ammar ships. Furthermore, only the Apocalypse has a significantly better recharge rate than the other equivalent tier battleships. The Typhoon, Scorpion and Dominix all have more or less the same recharge rate as the Armageddon, and yet can devote pretty much all of their cap to tanking. So you are saying that all Ammar ships have no drone bays and none have any missile slots at all? Oh wait thats not the case so you could make your statement a bit more accurate. he is saying after your train 8m skill points in lasers to get to use large tech II beam and pulse , you then need to train missiles aswell as the compulsory drones skills to be able to break a armor tank that is heavy tanked in em and thermal (which they all are) 2 x eanm II , damage control II also add that to the base resist on a mim ship only role players care about the back story and so called racial wars nahtoh go fit rails on your ferox as it has TURRENT POINTS !
Ashareth Caldari Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:39:00 - [103] I guess none of you is flying Minmatar, otherwise we would have you screaming all over the board.:D Even if damage wise, Amarr are a little gimped(and not so much than that, you can't really have a really good tank against everything, specially when shield tanking, you often have to choose between em and kin/thermal), they nearly all have a ubertank or the capacity to have huge damage in snipper mode. With their low slots then can have a tank AND damage mods. Yes, the boost in hp put them in trouble because the fihts are longer and they don't have more cap. But do you realize that minmatar lost their only advantage(alpha strike namely) with the hp boost, that they don't have an ubertank to cope with it, that they don't have really good dps(cause their rof is not good), that they have the lower shortrange range and so on? That they take EVERY nerf hard(cause most of their ships needs guns and drones and missiles, cause half their ships are armor tank, the other half shield tank, that for them, versatility is with different ships, not different fittings)? Amarr has a "little" probleme right now, but still have tremendous ships and only needs a tweak. The pendulum will swing back, amarr has been the flavor of the month race for long(just after caldari), rigth now it's the gallente, let's go on. I don't see how somebody can really stay on one races in Eve, you need to specialize in at least two to always have choice and good ships, and some are easy to train at the same time(like amarr/gallente, who are both armor tankers and gunnery users, with a little missiles for some ships. And drones are to be trained for EVERY race in eve, since it's a non negligeable addition). It's not stated anywhere that race x should be the king of the hill. (BTW, even if i fly mostly caldari, i'm flying Gallente and Amarr to, all t1 ships until bs, and assault frigs for all. I just don't had the time to train t2 lasers skills at the moment, since i'm still skilling hybrids for some months.:D). ------------------------------------------------ "Heaven is for the Dead Hell is for the Living" Harrisson *Flowerchild* AndromFde
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:58:00 - [104] so what... we have a race with large cap and lots of turret~ and low slots... which results in formidable tanks that can fit any desired weapon type - lasers just being one extra. "missing" turret boni are compensated by sheer amount. this freedom is one heck of a treat. if it is not enough here and there, add some turret slots - cap is the limiting factor and projectiles greatly depend on boni and then we can have a look at lasers again
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2007.02.15 17:34:00 - [105] Originally by: DanMck Originally by: nahtoh he is saying after your train 8m skill points in lasers to get to use large tech II beam and pulse , you then need to train missiles aswell as the compulsory drones skills to be able to break a armor tank that is heavy tanked in em and thermal (which they all are) 2 x eanm II , damage control II also add that to the base resist on a mim ship only role players care about the back story and so called racial wars nahtoh go fit rails on your ferox as it has TURRENT POINTS ! I would if I flew a ferox ;) It would have something to do with a lot more SPs in gunnery than I do in missiles . I pointing out that the lack of thought or the why should I use missiles/drones to takle that tank from some ammar players is their own damm fault. You also are guilty of that view point in your post dan ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.02.15 17:38:00 - [106] Omni tanks arent the problem, its that armor tanks overall are easier to use in PvP than shield tanks. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.02.15 17:45:00 - [107] Originally by: Azirapheal currently training for a deimos... at least i can hurt people with it. LOL gras is green, gras is green...on the other side _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Borasao	Posted - 2007.02.15 17:55:00 - [108] Originally by: Scav Silver Originally by: Aarin Wrath I do agree with other posters, the no-ammo and instant reload are huge bonuses to amarr that are often overlooked. What would be nice would be a macro "switch all crystals to multifreq" or something, instead of clicking X amount of times to change ammo. But thats another topic. (man everyone would love that i would bet) Pls do.. I'm tired of ppl tellin' me how great no ammo is.. When infact T2 crystals do fall apart.. No joke. If they think it is so great, let's switch weapons :) They get the lasers and Amarr ship bonuses and Amarr get their primary weapon with the appropriate ship skill bonuses. Any takers?
Captain Crimson CoreTech Industries	Posted - 2007.02.15 18:46:00 - [109] Originally by: Dark Shikari Amarr problem is simple, and similar to what you stated. Almost all Amarr T1 ships have only one bonus, because of the cap usage bonus that doesn't actually do anything except help them use their own weapons. Solution is simple: Lower all laser base cap usage by 35%, and replace all those bonuses with something useful. Amarr is good again. Why not just put this in as an amarr ship special ability? Stops lasers being used by other races.... 'What do you mean, where's the treasure? It's in this chest: ****ography and biscuits! Yarrr!'
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.15 19:06:00 - [110] Edited by: Goumindong on 15/02/2007 19:03:25 Originally by: Captain Crimson Originally by: Dark Shikari Amarr problem is simple, and similar to what you stated. Almost all Amarr T1 ships have only one bonus, because of the cap usage bonus that doesn't actually do anything except help them use their own weapons. Solution is simple: Lower all laser base cap usage by 35%, and replace all those bonuses with something useful. Amarr is good again. Why not just put this in as an amarr ship special ability? Stops lasers being used by other races.... Why stop lasers being used by other races? They arent used on non damage bonused amarr ships as it is right now, clearly they arent good enough to be used over other ships weapons except in specific circumstances that arent going to be large enough to worry about. Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Azirapheal currently training for a deimos... at least i can hurt people with it. LOL gras is green, gras is green...on the other side I thought that was funny too. Poor poor deimos, totaly out-performed by the brutix. The thing has no role like the other good HACs do. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Borasao	Posted - 2007.02.15 19:08:00 - [111] Quote: its EASY to avoid a doomsday blast. 2 1600 plates, 2 EANMs and a DCU on my geddon (standard PVP fit) and i can survive: Avatar blast - 34% armor remaining (confirmed) Erebus blast - 0-15% armor remaining (approx) Leviathan blast - 50-80% structure remaining (approx) Ragnarok blast - 0-20% structure remaining (approx) From the Titan thread... Summary... Standard PvP fit of 2xEANM, DCU, Plates... assuming all do the exact same raw damage... EM blast, 34% armor remaining Thermal blast, 0-15% armor remaining Kinetic blast, 50-80% structure remaining Exp blast, 0-20% structure remaining Any questions?
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:26:00 - [112] Originally by: X99 Z990 Edited by: X99 Z990 on 13/02/2007 02:30:04 Alternatives to 10% cap reduction per level. Crucifier - 10% bonus to tracking disruptor optimal range. Executioner - 7.5% bonus to small energy turret tracking speed. Crusader - Interceptors - 7.5% tracking bonus changed to 10% optimal range bonus. Malediction - Interceptors - Retain its current bonuses. Punisher - 5% bonus to small energy turret thermal damage output. Vengeance - Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses but has 5% thermal damage output on frigate level. Retribution - Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses but has 5% thermal damage output on frigate level. Omen - 10% bonus to medium energy turret accuracy falloff. Zealot - Heavy Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Maller - 5% bonus to medium energy turret thermal damage output. Sacrilege - Heavy Assault Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Prophecy - 5% bonus to medium energy turret thermal damage output. Damnation - Command Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Absolution - Command Ships - Retains its current bonuses. Harbinger - 5% bonus to drone velocity and tracking speed. Armageddon - 10% bonus to large energy turret accuracy falloff. Apocalypse - 10% bonus to scan resolution and targeting range. These are only examples of new roles and flavour amarr ships can get if they remove the laser cap usage and build it into the guns. Ill just comment on the Omen and Maller. Omen - It would be too much like the Zealot. The Zealot is a HAC, it needs to have some reason to be picked over the Omen other than 7 low slots and 2 mediokre bonuses. 5mil omen that can hit to 10km with Conflagration > 150mil Zealot that can hit to 10km with conflagration And the Maller- Its now a wannabe Omen. It should have an armor repair amount bonus...or would that be overpowered ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:36:00 - [113] Originally by: Borasao Quote: its EASY to avoid a doomsday blast. 2 1600 plates, 2 EANMs and a DCU on my geddon (standard PVP fit) and i can survive: Avatar blast - 34% armor remaining (confirmed) Erebus blast - 0-15% armor remaining (approx) Leviathan blast - 50-80% structure remaining (approx) Ragnarok blast - 0-20% structure remaining (approx) From the Titan thread... Summary... Standard PvP fit of 2xEANM, DCU, Plates... assuming all do the exact same raw damage... EM blast, 34% armor remaining Thermal blast, 0-15% armor remaining Kinetic blast, 50-80% structure remaining Exp blast, 0-20% structure remaining Any questions? Well, it might have something to do with the plates and armor tank as opposed to shield extenders. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Borasao	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:45:00 - [114] Originally by: Tasty BurgerWell, it might have something to do with the plates and armor tank as opposed to shield extenders. [:roll: Yeah...? I'm not sure what you're getting at here... I'm assuming the guy included shields being at full (even without any extenders) when the various DDD hit... Which means that with no EM resists (the shields don't block nearly as much as, say against EXP) the amount of damage the shields block is lots smaller so more damage goes through the shields to hit the armor, the omni-armor-tank is still able to soak more EM damage than any other type of damage. There's been argument that "now there will be more shield tankers" with the latest ships and that will "help Amarr be better". Well... maybe a little better... but even if a shield tanker doesn't plug the EM hole with anything at all, the armor still requires lots more to work through, even on a shield tanked ship, than other damage types.... the end result is that lasers would have to do (according to those numbers) 34% more damage than any other damage type to make EM damage on par with other damage types even with zero EM shield resistance, all else being equal. I'm not doing a good job explaining it... but something like: With 60% EXP shield resistance on the 'geddon, the shields allow 6000 more EM damage to pass through than EXP damage minimum. 60% EXP resists with a (non-extended, no skills) shield is the equivalent of 10,937 shields against EXP compared to only 4,375 against EM, so almost 6,500 more EM damage hits the omni-tank armor than against EXP, yet even that much more damage hitting the armor results in 19% to 34% less net damage to armor. This means that even against shield tanks, to do the equivalent EM damage as anything else, lasers would have to do 34% more EM damage to even be comparable to the EXP damage required to kill the target ship, which is against a shield's strongest resists (remember, this is against the shields weakest resists for EM... 0% resists). Basically, if 20,000 EXP damage were required to kill the shield tank ship (the strongest resists against EXP), you'd have to do 26,800 EM damage to kill that same shield tanked ship if that shield tanked ship didn't plug the EM hole at all and this is against the 0% EM resist hole that's supposed to make lasers so scary to shield tanked ships.
Aberash eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:24:00 - [115] To fix amarr: -reduce cap usage of lasers and change the bonus' to something more useful, but not something that makes them omgwtfpwn -Make thermal the primary damage and em the secondary damage of crystals... making them do explos and em, besides defying physics CCP will never do it
Captain Crimson Caldari CoreTech Industries	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:00:00 - [116] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 15/02/2007 19:03:25 Originally by: Captain Crimson Originally by: Dark Shikari Amarr problem is simple, and similar to what you stated. Almost all Amarr T1 ships have only one bonus, because of the cap usage bonus that doesn't actually do anything except help them use their own weapons. Solution is simple: Lower all laser base cap usage by 35%, and replace all those bonuses with something useful. Amarr is good again. Why not just put this in as an amarr ship special ability? Stops lasers being used by other races.... Why stop lasers being used by other races? They arent used on non damage bonused amarr ships as it is right now, clearly they arent good enough to be used over other ships weapons except in specific circumstances that arent going to be large enough to worry about. Cos then you get an extra bonus to the amarr ship to make lasers more acceptable. Simple. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Sett AtOn Amarr 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:18:00 - [117] On the issue of Lasers... I welcomed the rise of Abaddon and Harbinger with a nice grin, the damage bonus is an excellent echange for a RoF or Energy Turret Cap Use bonus, gives more diversity and allows for a better sniping setup on those ships. Other races' Battleships mostly get a damage or "similar to damage" bonus, but for instance, the RoF bonus on Amarr means only more cap will be burned in the same timeframe (also the other races' new ships with optimal range bonus surprised me so bear with me please), and while the Apocalypse's cap bonus comes in handy, it really isn't that majestic when you look at it, and compare it to others. I have personally used 8x1400mm Artillery on an Apoc for PvE and 800mm Autocannons for some close-range PvP. For PvE, I noticed that Artilleries did better damage to NPCs than lasers (mostly due to the fact that I hunted Guristas). I observed the Amarr as the only race which can fit any kind of guns on its ships, for instance the Minmatar guns have less powergrid/CPU needs, and with the number of low slots the Amarr ships have, it makes for a great tank. No cap use means all goes into tank... However! Since I see other races are almost required to fit the appropriate guns on their ships, the effective damage of an Amarr ship with any other races' guns is -25%. It seems like a fair tradeoff, damage for tank, AND it allows me to use a lot of the ship's resources for other purposes, but since Amarr are so intensively Gunnery focused (I have over 10 million in Gunnery and still need lvl5 of most of the specialization skills, so many more SP are in there), I have had time and will only to spend another 600k SP for Minmatar guns. I have long forgotten the last time I spent any SP in Missiles, and I have only trained the neccessary skills for those. For those who preach fitting lasers on any other race's ships than Amarr, please have a look at Tachyon Beam Laser II powergrid needs, as well as the required amount of cap to fire off one round. It would seem foolish at best to fit a gun of those requirements on any other ship than Amarr. You lose the gun bonus from your non-Amarr ship, you lose more cap, your fitting looks ridiculous because Lasers eat powergrid/CPU and you have no tank. No flaming intended, but please give us a reasonable fitting for any non-Amarr ship with Lasers. I know I would like to try out some Caldari/Gallente, but those darn Hybrids are too much for me to chew on for some more time. The nastiest thing about Amarr newbie pilots is they have no skills for their weapons, and their ships (T1, mind you) mostly give them 10% reduced cap use. This is discouraging at best, and while I have not thought of a way to please everyone, it would be nice if t1 Amarr ships up to BC could have a single 50% bonus to Energy Turret Cap Use, and a minor bonus for different stuff. To top it all off... I don't know if I need to point it out at all, but Amarr is the only race without an Astrometrics frigate (if we're gonna dig into role-playing, Amarr were the first to embrace inter-stellar travel. weren't they? ). The result is a number of newbie pilots willing to go into exploration, but who need to learn skills of other races just so they can use a Probe launcher. Not to mention, these newbies are also poorly skilled in Lasers without any skills for other guns, and trying to fit those lasers onto their ships which aren't Amarr is giving them one hell of a headache. I remember the first time I looked at a Medium Beam Laser and thought "Wow, this baby deals some serious damage". The euphoria quickly faded as I noticed that I cannot fit the Beams onto a frigate without gimping its tank/speed/cap etc. It just seems wrong to be forced to learn skills for a Micro Aux Powercore, just so you can fill the high slots of your ship with your race's guns. (this was my first post on Eve-O if I'm not mistaken, so feel free to flame
Danjira Ryuujin	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:37:00 - [118] We should just give caldari a bonus to tampon launcher rate of fire. I think that would fix all of amarr's problems. Wow, that was so blantantly misogynistic I've gone and shocked myself

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