And you have pointed it out in this thread -- repeatedly.

You'd think that even after such events as the Somer Blink fiasco and the aforementioned dustup between SMA and IWI which resulted in the banning and subsequent unbanning of a number of IWI's bankers, that CCP would have shut down casino operations by now. Yet they have not. I ask again why you don't petition them formally and lay out your case, and see if they give you a a ruling on the matter? Since it's a topic that seems to hit close to home to you, why not do that instead of cry about it on the forums?

Hahaha that's a slightly whiney response, I've never been ganked by a Goon, Code or anyone for that matter (see for yourself on my KB, but then I am an alt!). Surely if the people using IWI are breaking the EULA then we would see the ban hammer? But alas we're not......Maybe CCP are sick of you lot too, oh yeah they are, FozzySov proves that.

as no one is listening to you

Gambling sites have been around for years, CCP is well aware of them and is condoning or even endorsing them by providing sponsorship or positive mentions. Nothing about this is currently against the EULA and if CCP thought there was some sort of problem with it the entire gambling niche would have been banned after the SOMER Blink fiasco.

Between full on market traders and incursion runners, a single guy running a gambling site is hardly something that jumps out. Trillions upon trillions can be made by any clever player who is willing to put in the time and effort. And make no mistake, running a site like that and managing all the people working for it is no easy task. I'd say it's many times harder than making trillions station trading or running incursions. God knows especially the latter is so easy even TEST could do it.

He accumulated that isk because people chose to give it to him. Should minerbumping.com be brought down because they have accumulated so much isk through 'share purchases'?

You absolutely are.

When his website falls into that category, we can talk. He isn't using macros, he isn't using software that improves gameplay. People are volunteering to donate him money. The website doesn't make it any easier to do that. The website doesn't make gameplay any easier.

He accumulated that isk because people chose to give it to him. Should minerbumping.com be brought down because they have accumulated so much isk through 'share purchases'?

You should really read the EULA Lucas. Market bots mean a person isn't physically placing orders and moving money in game. IWI has actually players doing 100% of the work with 100% of the ISK gained in game.

You keep using that term. Please define 'normal gameplay' for us

Goons had fucktons of untouchable income for years in the form of tech moons.

Pretty much sums it up right there.

If I did a facebook or youtube site asking for ISK donations, and managed to get trillions, would that make me bannable too?
Better shut down anyone who has a donation box on their Eve fansite; by Lucas standards you are breaking the rulez

If you get trillions of ISK, what would you do with it?

If you converted it somehow into real currency then I would think it's breaking the rules.

It's a bit dodgy anyway as you could give it away in-game and those that you give it to could effectively pay you real currency for it outside of the game.

You're suggesting I haven't?

So you have done so, and you received no response at all, or they told you that casinos are not a breach of the EULA, or they simply said "Thank you for your concern; we will look into this matter" or some other noncommittal gesture. Ok.

So you are saying that if he didn't use that software and just did it in game, he would be able to acquire isk at the same rate he does now? I don't believe you, because that's obviously wrong.

Since their share purchases are generally done on the forum, probably not. There's a slight difference between volumes of isk able to be made between the sites though, since minerbumping is literally just a blog, while IWI is a full web application. If anything minerbmping shows more realistically how little IWI would make if it really didn't use a third party app to acquire all that isk.

No, you really need to read the EULA. The rule is that third party applications may not facilitate the acquisition of items or currency at an accelerated rate compared to normal play. At no point does it state that it needs to be automated for it to be classed as bannable.

Really? Log into the client full screen and don't use any outside tools or websites. Tada, everything you are looking at is "normal gameplay".

Really? Log into the client full screen and don't use any outside tools or websites. Tada, everything you are looking at is "normal gameplay".

So, using the give isk option is normal gameplay.

Not been in the captain's cabin for sometime, but casinos used to be advertised on the screen which would have been before the changes to the bounty system. Back then a lot of the most wanted characters were connected with casinos. So they were tolerated at least in the past.

Not a single ISK has been generated by the website. 100% of it was generated inside the game through donations to players. Are you honestly going to disagree with that?

So, using the give isk option is normal gameplay.

Dude, your face!

So explain exactly why you think that IWI which is undeniably a third party application, which allows the owner to acquire isk at a faster rate than normal gameplay isn't covered by the EULA clause covering exactly that? And often CCP don't act all the time there's no light being shined on things.

The main problem here is, once again, that people need to stop interpreting CCP's EULA for them. They wrote the damn thing, they enforce the damn thing, they don't need you or me or any of their paying players to tell them wat is and isn't against the EULA. If CCP tells you that something is okay to do, what is waving the EULA in their face going to accomplish? It's not the US constitution and CCP isn't a government body bound by the EULA they themselves wrote. They can ignore and cherry pick the EULA whenever they damn well please and the only people who should be worried about that is CCP's own internal affairs staff.

If you have an issue with something, make your case for it independently. Take it up with CCP, send in a ticket, send an e-mail, open a thread on the forum. But DON'T come in quoting the EULA as if it's somehow meant to limit what CCP can and can't do, because that's not what it's for. It's intended to limit what YOU can and can't do. And CCP is allowed to make exceptions all day long if they want.

As for IWI, I think it's amazing that things like this can exist in our little game world. What other game has gambling sites that allow you to use your game currency to play, win things, lose things? And in what other game is that gambling site ran by an actual player who can turn around and decide the course of a game's narrative for thousands of people? As a community we should be proud that initiatives like this exist, it's what makes EVE unique. The only thing it requires is that CCP keeps a close eye on it to make sure such sites aren't abused for RMT purposes.

Hahaha that's a slightly whiney response, I've never been ganked by a Goon, Code or anyone for that matter (see for yourself on my KB, but then I am an alt!). Surely if the people using IWI are breaking the EULA then we would see the ban hammer? But alas we're not......Maybe CCP are sick of you lot too, oh yeah they are, FozzySov proves that.

Whiney? In what way? You;'re babbling on about Burn Jita like in means a damn thing then rolling don the route of "can't wait for the end of goons HAHAHA ALL THE TEARS" which is classic defensive crap from highsec gank victims. Calling everything tears doesn't actually make it so it just makes you look desperate.

Clearly they are otherwise there would be so many posts direct at me.

I'm not interpreting their EULA for them. Like with many other situations I'm just calling it as I see it and it's up to CCP to decide if they want to act. You're right, they wrote their EULA so it's up to them to decide how to enforce it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still call that enforcement into question. It's through people pushing for change that progress is made.

You're suggesting I haven't? Nobody here is crying.

Whiney? In what way? You;'re babbling on about Burn Jita like in means a damn thing then rolling don the route of "can't wait for the end of goons HAHAHA ALL THE TEARS" which is classic defensive crap from highsec gank victims. Calling everything tears doesn't actually make it so it just makes you look desperate.

Clearly they are otherwise there would be so many posts direct at me.

So explain exactly why you think that IWI which is undeniably a third party application, which allows the owner to acquire isk at a faster rate than normal gameplay isn't covered by the EULA clause covering exactly that? And often CCP don't act all the time there's no light being shined on things.

And sure, there's other ways to make trillions, usually with a whole heap of work over a long period of time and still it's all dwarfed by a guy running a third party application. Not to mention that every single one of those in-gmae mechanics can be affected and attacked by players using in-game methods while IWI cannot. And I didn't state it was an easy task, I'm sure running 200 bots isn't an easy task, yet that's still banned. Just because it takes effort doesn't change whether it's right or not to allow it.

At the end of the day, I still see this as a third party app that allows a player to effectively win EVE by have a completely uncounterable method of gaining more isk that even whole alliances can make. A lot of people are happy with it now because their target is goons and they don't like goons, but that doesn't make it right to allow it. There's no point in other players even trying to compete with that.

Whiney as in your first response to me was that I must have been ganked, highsec bear blah blah blah.....

Also I mentioned Burn Jita once in relation to the current burning of your space and how hilarious it is.

That is all very noble on paper, but I would love to know for certain whether you have actually filed a formal ticket or petition with them about this. I don't even care to know about the answer, if any, because I understand that there may be rules about sharing private correspondence from CCP employees blah blah, that come into play.

I just want to know how committed to this you really are. Seriously, it seems to me that you're brown-nosing The Mittani more than anything else. He brought this up in one of his dispatches to the faithful sometime last week and you've been on a tear about it ever since.

I don't recall seeing you taking issue with IWI, until after you lost all your space and your "mighty" coalition started failcascading.

*popcorn*
The MBC has a long way to go before they can honestly claim victory.

Yes, it's been raised.

And no, this has nothing to do with Mittani. Once again I invite you to peruse my post history and you'll find that my stance on these gambling sites has been the same for a long time, likely longer than I've been in the Imperium. The only thing the latest activities have done is compound my belief that they are bad for the game and encourage me to push even harder for their removal.

Well you were the one complaining about Burn Jita bro.

I know I said I wouldn't be back but I couldn't resist......

N, I don;t, but the rules isnt; about generating isk, it's about acquiring isk. If it were only about generating isk there would be multiple tools like (like market bots for example) which would not be covered. Your inability to read the EULA is your problem.

Let me know when you have a half decent argument not based on your misunderstanding.

Known as The Mittani within the virtual world of GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ Gianturco commands an army of 40,000 space pilots loyal to his Imperium coalition. He has a trusted band of lieutenants and uses propaganda, espionage and deception to retain his position as the gameGÇÖs most powerful player, describing himself as the Vladimir Putin of the GÇ£EveGÇ¥ universe. He has even leveraged his position to earn a living from GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ setting up his own website and renting out his army of mercenaries to other video games.