Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 22 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
164
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 17:24:17 -
[1] - Quote
If the allied forces now smelling blood in the water and massing like a school of sharks around the corrupt and soon to be defunct (probably, hopefully) Imperium what are we grrrgoon folks going do do? Who are we going to hate? Who can we blame?
May i be the first to blame Seraph IX Basarab ? All the ills in the world have to be someones fault and he has stuck his head over the parapet.
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
|
Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
158
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 17:49:09 -
[2] - Quote
*sigh*......and so it starts. Oh, and IBTL,too.
To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.
...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
|
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
862
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 18:08:56 -
[3] - Quote
I give it about another month or two before the "allies" start bickering and squabbling with each other about how to carve up the Goonspace they haven't even conquered yet, and flounce off all buttmad with each other.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
|
Divine Entervention
Hunters Elite Krab Republic
834
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 18:57:27 -
[4] - Quote
You'll probably just hate whoever ends up on top.
It's what people like you do. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 20:09:56 -
[5] - Quote
Apparently BoB's not dead.
Let's hope they rise from the ashes; and under the protection of Texas Law, become the new entity to hate (though I'm more likely to laugh). |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
958
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 22:19:39 -
[6] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:I give it about another month or two before the "allies" start bickering and squabbling with each other about how to carve up the Goonspace they haven't even conquered yet, and flounce off all buttmad with each other.
That would require the space being worth something to them.
Half of the alliances involved neither want or need the space, and realize the same vulnerabilities they are exploiting would make it a tenuous proposition at best to try and hold it. Squabbling over extra work? Naw, they are smarter than that.
The other alliances involved could very well actually take, hold, and colonize the space. The south and the south west show that sov space can be cultivated and useful to alliances of the right size and type, and those with the right mindset. Just that pseudo renter/buffer alliances don't really stand a chance succeeding at sov, and this is a good thing. These alliances don't need that much space to make magic happen, so again, infighting is not something I'd expect. There's a whole lot of space available soon.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1420
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 23:25:38 -
[7] - Quote
They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
867
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 00:52:50 -
[8] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
|
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
432
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 01:27:08 -
[9] - Quote
It will be fine. There will always be someone to hate in Eve, you just have to open your heart. |
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
38
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 01:42:33 -
[10] - Quote
Looks like ranting to me. How 'bout to you? |
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3632
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 01:45:07 -
[11] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that.
Seriously. I was around in 2011, when PL teamed up with basically all of nullsec, killed the Northern Coalition, and took essentially all Goon space except Deklein.
Goonswarm had its space back and then some a few weeks later. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
959
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 04:10:44 -
[12] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Seriously. I was around in 2011, when PL teamed up with basically all of nullsec, killed the Northern Coalition, and took essentially all Goon space except Deklein. Goonswarm had its space back and then some a few weeks later, and the alliance that tried to kill them was shattered.
The political and military realities of then and now are quite different.
Defending multiple fronts from multiple attackers was trivial in the old system, where coalition meant everything and distance meant nothing. Now we see what happens when it is both a viable tactic, and there is the collective will to enact it.
Exciting times if it holds.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3635
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 04:35:25 -
[13] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Seriously. I was around in 2011, when PL teamed up with basically all of nullsec, killed the Northern Coalition, and took essentially all Goon space except Deklein. Goonswarm had its space back and then some a few weeks later, and the alliance that tried to kill them was shattered. The political and military realities of then and now are quite different. Defending multiple fronts from multiple attackers was trivial in the old system, where coalition meant everything and distance meant nothing. Now we see what happens when it is both a viable tactic, and there is the collective will to enact it. Exciting times if it holds.
I don't see how "annoy them to death" could possibly work against goons, considering they would be doing the exact same thing to anyone who tried to move in, and no one does "annoy them to death" as well as they do. |
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
3
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 05:26:06 -
[14] - Quote
Goon hubris......
If Darius returns it might be interesting....status quo....well....lolMittens can always write another book.
Also...in the spirit of things...paging Butterdog |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7365
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 05:29:53 -
[15] - Quote
I'm just going to look forward to Harry Forever posting videos of his sniping stragglers from the fleets with his SB.
C'mon it is fun to watch at least.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
959
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 05:42:59 -
[16] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:I don't see how "annoy them to death" could possibly work against goons, considering they would be doing the exact same thing to anyone who tried to move in, and no one does "annoy them to death" as well as they do.
So they keep Dek. That's fine, I don't think people really have a problem, conceptually or philosophically, with a strong alliance holding a region they actively use. Freeing the rest of the North from the tyranny of coalitions, a mechanic and a concept that has long outlived its place and use, and seeing what can actually grow there...that's something to be lauded and good for the game in general.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17566
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 09:26:15 -
[17] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:If the allied forces now smelling blood in the water and massing like a school of sharks around the corrupt and soon to be defunct (probably, hopefully) Imperium what are we grrrgoon folks going do do? Who are we going to hate? Who can we blame? May i be the first to blame Seraph IX Basarab ? All the ills in the world have to be someones fault and he has stuck his head over the parapet.
grrr TEST?
grrr PL?
And of course there's always the old standby of grrr CCP
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 10:19:44 -
[18] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Prt Scr wrote:If the allied forces now smelling blood in the water and massing like a school of sharks around the corrupt and soon to be defunct (probably, hopefully) Imperium what are we grrrgoon folks going do do? Who are we going to hate? Who can we blame? May i be the first to blame Seraph IX Basarab ? All the ills in the world have to be someones fault and he has stuck his head over the parapet. grrr TEST? grrr PL? And of course there's always the old standby of grrr CCP
How is your Tenal evac going? |
Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
485
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 11:35:11 -
[19] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:If the allied forces now smelling blood in the water and massing like a school of sharks around the corrupt and soon to be defunct (probably, hopefully) Imperium what are we grrrgoon folks going do do? Who are we going to hate? Who can we blame? May i be the first to blame Seraph IX Basarab ? All the ills in the world have to be someones fault and he has stuck his head over the parapet. +1 for the sig
Create your own in-game shiplabels:
>EVE Custom Ship Labeler application forum thread
>iciclesoft.com
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4441
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 14:34:10 -
[20] - Quote
If it happens we're going to declare a Year of Jubilee, during which time there will be no grrr.
Portrait inspired by my cocktiel Cockatiel.
|
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10072
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 14:51:05 -
[21] - Quote
The wheels of mass perception turn slowly.
In other words, grr Goons will be around for the life of the game no matter what the actual in-game situation.
Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 16:40:47 -
[22] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:In other words, grr Goons will be around for the life of the game no matter what the actual in-game situation. The game has 1 month to live left, so yeah, grr will follow it to the end. |
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
533
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 16:54:47 -
[23] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that.
Crack in the wall, my friend. A crack in the wall.
That's all you need in this game for an alliance to start to failcascade.
Vale has already been abandoned.
Some perspective on how things have been going for you
Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1424
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 17:11:28 -
[24] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Crack in the wall, my friend. A crack in the wall. That's all you need in this game for an alliance to start to failcascade. Vale has already been abandoned. Some perspective on how things have been going for you
Yes, a crack in the wall of the castle that is located miles away from the actual fortress they will have to siege. Such an achievement :D
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3637
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 19:43:17 -
[25] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Crack in the wall, my friend. A crack in the wall. That's all you need in this game for an alliance to start to failcascade. Vale has already been abandoned. Some perspective on how things have been going for you
Wat.
I, too, like to steal pebbles from people's driveways and act like I just caused irreparable damage to their house. |
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
533
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 19:53:25 -
[26] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Crack in the wall, my friend. A crack in the wall. That's all you need in this game for an alliance to start to failcascade. Vale has already been abandoned. Some perspective on how things have been going for you Yes, a crack in the wall of the castle that is located miles away from the actual fortress they will have to siege. Such an achievement :D
Yeah, yeah....Didn't want that region anyway.
It's a start.
I'm sure Bastion and LAWN are very happy that Goons are allowing them the privilege to defend Goon space, while their own sov gets burnt to the ground.
Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
|
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
833
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 20:41:11 -
[27] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Crack in the wall, my friend. A crack in the wall. That's all you need in this game for an alliance to start to failcascade. Vale has already been abandoned. Some perspective on how things have been going for you Yes, a crack in the wall of the castle that is located miles away from the actual fortress they will have to siege. Such an achievement :D Yeah, yeah....Didn't want that region anyway. It's a start. I'm sure Bastion and LAWN are very happy that Goons are allowing them the privilege to defend Goon space, while their own sov gets burnt to the ground.
How about you such a brave start inviding Deklein straight away? "Let's go kill goons" won't be motivating factor for allied forces for too long. Someone would decide that its nice to have a piece of space in VoS. So we all kniw what is all about. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1425
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 20:54:28 -
[28] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Crack in the wall, my friend. A crack in the wall. That's all you need in this game for an alliance to start to failcascade. Vale has already been abandoned. Some perspective on how things have been going for you Yes, a crack in the wall of the castle that is located miles away from the actual fortress they will have to siege. Such an achievement :D Yeah, yeah....Didn't want that region anyway. It's a start. I'm sure Bastion and LAWN are very happy that Goons are allowing them the privilege to defend Goon space, while their own sov gets burnt to the ground.
I never said 'we' didn't want that space. Moar space = moar money = moar space. But when push comes to shove and it turns out that space is acting like a hard to defend anchor, cutting it off is just as much a strategy as throwing trillions of ISK in ships at the problem. If people want to perceive that as a weakness on Goons part, that is on them. For LAWN and Bastion it's a temporary setback, nothing more. If 'our enemies' want to convince themselves that we are weak and disorganized, I certainly won't stop them. The gates to Deklein are open, you know where to find us.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
533
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 21:06:12 -
[29] - Quote
The War So Far
Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3637
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 21:10:50 -
[30] - Quote
These kinds of videos are so frustrating to watch when you speak the language. |
|
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
534
|
Posted - 2016.03.27 23:12:56 -
[31] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:BuckStrider wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Crack in the wall, my friend. A crack in the wall. That's all you need in this game for an alliance to start to failcascade. Vale has already been abandoned. Some perspective on how things have been going for you Yes, a crack in the wall of the castle that is located miles away from the actual fortress they will have to siege. Such an achievement :D Yeah, yeah....Didn't want that region anyway. It's a start. I'm sure Bastion and LAWN are very happy that Goons are allowing them the privilege to defend Goon space, while their own sov gets burnt to the ground. I never said 'we' didn't want that space. Moar space = moar money = moar space. But when push comes to shove and it turns out that space is acting like a hard to defend anchor, cutting it off is just as much a strategy as throwing trillions of ISK in ships at the problem. If people want to perceive that as a weakness on Goons part, that is on them. For LAWN and Bastion it's a temporary setback, nothing more. If 'our enemies' want to convince themselves that we are weak and disorganized, I certainly won't stop them. The gates to Deklein are open, you know where to find us.
A temporary setback? I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation. About all of Eve is coming after you.
Allied Forces Overview
Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
|
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
833
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 00:17:30 -
[32] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:A temporary setback? I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation. About all of Eve is coming after you. Allied Forces Overview
lol @ "all" Eve |
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
535
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 04:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:BuckStrider wrote:A temporary setback? I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation. About all of Eve is coming after you. Allied Forces Overview lol @ "all" Eve partially participated won't make them counted as a part of Incursion. I wonder if goons would pay money for merc alliances which are part of Invaders would any of those deny an offer and reject their own codex since it's just a business and nothing else...
Holy crap! WTF did you just type, because I speak fluent drunkenese and even this doesn't make any sense.
Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7370
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 07:34:30 -
[34] - Quote
Hmmm this is real sh!t
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3639
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 09:01:47 -
[35] - Quote
Good lord, that coalition is going to last like a week before it implodes. Half of the members hate the rest of them. |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
165
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 09:10:38 -
[36] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Good lord, that coalition is going to last like a week before it implodes. Half of the members hate the rest of them.
True, but they all hate goons more then they hate each other.
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
|
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
540
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 14:25:23 -
[37] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Good lord, that coalition is going to last like a week before it implodes. Half of the members hate the rest of them.
If this was any other time, I'd have to totally agree with you. This is different.
When you have an entity that has caused some much strife and discord among the general player base, something has to give.
Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
|
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1489
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 14:40:58 -
[38] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that.
Something something abandoning Vale something....
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1428
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 14:46:25 -
[39] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Good lord, that coalition is going to last like a week before it implodes. Half of the members hate the rest of them. True, but they all hate goons more then they hate each other.
I think their love for the free money they are getting outweighs any hate for us, but I might be wrong...
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Pix Severus
Empty You
3710
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 17:01:20 -
[40] - Quote
I think you should actually win the war before you start trumpeting the demise of your enemy.
Good luck to all parties involved, I'll be over here with a bucket of popcorn.
-ì-ä-à -£-à+¦-äGêâ-Ç
|
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3640
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 17:02:47 -
[41] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:
When you have an entity that has caused some much strife and discord among the general player base, something has to give.
What are you even on about now? The allies include PL and NC., both responsible for far more. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
871
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 17:10:11 -
[42] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote: I think their love for the free money they are getting outweighs any hate for us, but I might be wrong...
Well, some of that "free money" is going to go play another game. http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2016/03/i-need-suggestion-for-new-mmo-and-you.html
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
126
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 18:33:17 -
[43] - Quote
Quick Poll:
This new conflict is:
A. The start of a new, New Eden wide Galactic War.
B. A Local dustup of corps and alliances to adjust the property lines.
C. Only a momentary conflict to ease some boredom on the part of the participants.
D. Tempest in a teapot, nothing that will last, these aren't the droids you're looking for... move along.
E. None of the above
Enquiring minds want to know!
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 18:49:06 -
[44] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Quick Poll:
This new conflict is:
A. The start of a new, New Eden wide Galactic War.
B. A Local dustup of corps and alliances to adjust the property lines.
C. Only a momentary conflict to ease some boredom on the part of the participants.
D. Tempest in a teapot, nothing that will last, these aren't the droids you're looking for... move along.
E. None of the above
Enquiring minds want to know!
B. Although outgrown "local", it's a war for the bigger cut from the New Jita. Nothing personal, just business. It'll be finished in a month no matter what stage it goes, along with eve. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
11461
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 19:00:16 -
[45] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Looks like ranting to me. How 'bout to you?
Looks like Otso Bakarti to me. How 'bout to you?
PS: Another bounty added
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
|
Pryce Caesar
The Scope Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 19:53:45 -
[46] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:BuckStrider wrote:
When you have an entity that has caused some much strife and discord among the general player base, something has to give.
What are you even on about now? The allies include PL and NC., both responsible for far more.
It is basically a power-grab for PL and NC, in that sense. I apologize to anyone who has not watched or read Mockingjay yet...
I.E SPOILERS AHEAD
But PL and NC could very well turn out to be the Coin to Goonswarm's Snow: they'll attempt to use the war to depose the Goons, only to turn out to be much worse than Goonswarm ever was. In other words, they won't change anything; they'll just put another group of guys just as bad, if not worse than Goonswarm, at the top.
But with the Citadel update coming soon, I can imagine the dynamics of the war potentially changing.
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2016.03.28 20:02:30 -
[47] - Quote
Pryce Caesar wrote:But with the Citadel update coming soon, I can imagine the dynamics of the war potentially changing. To a grinding halt, and consequently, eternal love and piece. All hail the broker fee moons. |
Shemmy
The Order Of Entropy
8
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 00:28:20 -
[48] - Quote
Sister MaryElephant wrote:Goon hubris...... If Darius returns it might be interesting....status quo....well....lolMittens can always write another book. Also...in the spirit of things...paging Butterdog
I literally signed into the forums for the first time in ages to +1 your Butterdog reference. You're welcome. |
Mario Putzo
1564
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 01:10:51 -
[49] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Quick Poll:
This new conflict is:
A. The start of a new, New Eden wide Galactic War.
B. A Local dustup of corps and alliances to adjust the property lines.
C. Only a momentary conflict to ease some boredom on the part of the participants.
D. Tempest in a teapot, nothing that will last, these aren't the droids you're looking for... move along.
E. None of the above
Enquiring minds want to know!
F. A complete beat down of Goons from the looks of today.
CFC -2 Regions in 3 days, and -1 Alliance. |
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
543
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 02:11:45 -
[50] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:BuckStrider wrote:
When you have an entity that has caused some much strife and discord among the general player base, something has to give.
What are you even on about now? The allies include PL and NC., both responsible for far more.
PL and NC didn't tell someone to 'kill themselves' like Mittens did.
PL and NC didn't badmouth the entire community because they couldn't raise $150k for a book like Sion did.
And PL and NC sure as hell weren't arrogant enough to think they could enact a 'Viceroy' program over all of Eve because they thought they were so 'badass'.
Crap like that all adds up and crap just hit the fan.
Oh and that crack in the wall just got a crapload bigger....After CO2 saw what happened to Bastion and LAWN, they decided they didn't want to be meatshields anymore.
Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
|
|
Pryce Caesar
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 02:32:02 -
[51] - Quote
Blame the individual, not the coalition. Unless Mittani has gotten so full of himself as to turn Goonswarm into his personal piggy bank, it can be said that PL and NC are just using everyone else to get territory from the Imperium and revenge for the events of B-R5RB.
|
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
543
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 03:13:09 -
[52] - Quote
Pryce Caesar wrote:Blame the individual, not the coalition. Unless Mittani has gotten so full of himself as to turn Goonswarm into his personal piggy bank, it can be said that PL and NC are just using everyone else to get territory from the Imperium and revenge for the events of B-R5RB.
You obviously A) have no idea who PL and or/ NC are and B) have not been keeping up on recent events
Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5908
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 03:26:42 -
[53] - Quote
EVE is dying. |
Dirk Magnum
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
528
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 03:29:54 -
[54] - Quote
We are the villains Eve deserves, and the ones it needs, for we did not come to ruin the game, but your game. You wanted a war for Nullsec, and now you have one. No matter who loses, we all win in the end.
You need us so you can have someone to point to and say "that's the bad guy." These pretzels are makin me thirsty.
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "LIVE FAST DIE."
- traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
|
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1706
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 04:00:17 -
[55] - Quote
Pryce Caesar wrote:Blame the individual, not the coalition. Unless Mittani has gotten so full of himself as to turn Goonswarm into his personal piggy bank, it can be said that PL and NC are just using everyone else to get territory from the Imperium and revenge for the events of B-R5RB.
Strong accusations from the Gallente Federation. Best watch your step or it will be Dodixie next. |
Verlyn
Teutate raiders DARKNESS.
57
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 06:44:50 -
[56] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:In other words, grr Goons will be around for the life of the game no matter what the actual in-game situation. The game has 1 month to live left.
Omg the bullshit, it burns !!! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7371
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 07:18:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dirk Magnum wrote:We are the villains Eve deserves, and the ones it needs, for we did not come to ruin the game, but your game. You wanted a war for Nullsec, and now you have one. No matter who loses, we all win in the end.
You need us so you can have someone to point to and say "that's the bad guy." These pretzels are makin me thirsty.
What you goons fail to grasp, is that no matter what happens, a good time will be had by all.
Some of us remember the days before you lot. Grrrrr.
(Ya'll are good sports to hunt though, I'll give you that)
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
4
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 07:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Dirk Magnum wrote:We are the villains Eve deserves, and the ones it needs, for we did not come to ruin the game, but your game. You wanted a war for Nullsec, and now you have one. No matter who loses, we all win in the end.
You need us so you can have someone to point to and say "that's the bad guy." These pretzels are makin me thirsty.
Sucked by node crashing then:
https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=477065
Sucking worse when you actually have to fight.
Enjoy.
|
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
833
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 07:43:14 -
[59] - Quote
I don't like goons either PL/NC and even more Loltron Coalition but if only GSF which is 17k of memebers could ping 1% out of its numbers that would easily provided 1,7k memebrs on field. Instead Imperium havily rely on coalition forces. GSF as a major member should be shown and demonstrate a classic "lead by example" but we didn't see that much. |
Sol epoch
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
282
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 07:52:49 -
[60] - Quote
CO2 Reset standing with the Imperium!
At last they found the Kahunas to do the right thing. |
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1007
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 09:14:27 -
[61] - Quote
Dirk Magnum wrote:We are the villains Eve deserves, and the ones it needs, for we did not come to ruin the game, but your game. You wanted a war for Nullsec, and now you have one. No matter who loses, we all win in the end.
You need us so you can have someone to point to and say "that's the bad guy." These pretzels are makin me thirsty.
The CFC hasn't been "villainous" in years. They sat up north running sanctums all day, and their FC's left, their dipsos were driven out, and finally the backbone of their military might, CO2, has finally realized that they've been carrying the biggest bunch of bads in EVE and abandoned you.
The war is over. Now its just a game of slap the mittani till he pods himself.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Nefariouscaine
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 09:27:07 -
[62] - Quote
I dont think most people know whats going on and what is true and false, Assumptions are made on reddit and here on forums that arent true.
True facts no words. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1430
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 11:24:43 -
[63] - Quote
Sol epoch wrote:CO2 Reset standing with the Imperium!
At last they found the Kahunas to do the right thing.
Like all other events in this war, they were offered a big wad of money to give up their loyalty. And if a little bit of money is enough to tide you over, "we don't want allies like that anyway". CO2 set a trap for their own coalition and it didn't work. Now they may join a coalition of alliances that is being held together by nothing but promises of free money and Goon super kills. Once either of those start drying up, someone in that coalition is going to backstab the rest and everything will fall like dominos. And that will happen long before "The Good Guys" even have a chance of taking Deklein.
So enjoy the good fights for as long as they last. These are exciting times for EVE no doubt. But Goons and the Imperium are not going anywhere :)
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1008
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 12:26:23 -
[64] - Quote
CO2 was getting shat on by GSF for months now. The evacuation of Vale showed exactly how much goons cared about their "valued allies". You're pulling in the idiots too dumb to know any better to defend your space, and hoping that their now empty space slows people down.
Spin it any way you want, but people are leaving the CFC.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Sol epoch
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
283
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 12:33:04 -
[65] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Sol epoch wrote:CO2 Reset standing with the Imperium!
At last they found the Kahunas to do the right thing. Like all other events in this war, they were offered a big wad of money to give up their loyalty. And if a little bit of money is enough to tide you over, "we don't want allies like that anyway". CO2 set a trap for their own coalition and it didn't work. Now they may join a coalition of alliances that is being held together by nothing but promises of free money and Goon super kills. Once either of those start drying up, someone in that coalition is going to backstab the rest and everything will fall like dominos. And that will happen long before "The Good Guys" even have a chance of taking Deklein. So enjoy the good fights for as long as they last. These are exciting times for EVE no doubt. But Goons and the Imperium are not going anywhere :)
I think you are just towing the party rhetoric with your first sentence, Loyalty/Isk wasn't the reason and you know it, Being pushed to one side by the Diplo's/leaders and keeping them in the dark over issues time and time again was more the case.
I agree with your second sentence but which one is first to dry up should be your concern.
There is no doubt that by them leaving you have lost a big offensive/Defensive force.
If the other two alliances being talked about also leave then you have serious problems. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1430
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 12:52:50 -
[66] - Quote
Sol epoch wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Sol epoch wrote:CO2 Reset standing with the Imperium!
At last they found the Kahunas to do the right thing. Like all other events in this war, they were offered a big wad of money to give up their loyalty. And if a little bit of money is enough to tide you over, "we don't want allies like that anyway". CO2 set a trap for their own coalition and it didn't work. Now they may join a coalition of alliances that is being held together by nothing but promises of free money and Goon super kills. Once either of those start drying up, someone in that coalition is going to backstab the rest and everything will fall like dominos. And that will happen long before "The Good Guys" even have a chance of taking Deklein. So enjoy the good fights for as long as they last. These are exciting times for EVE no doubt. But Goons and the Imperium are not going anywhere :) I think you are just towing the party rhetoric with your first sentence, Loyalty/Isk wasn't the reason and you know it, Being pushed to one side by the Diplo's/leaders and keeping them in the dark over issues time and time again was more the case. I agree with your second sentence but which one is first to dry up should be your concern. There is no doubt that by them leaving you have lost a big offensive/Defensive force. If the other two alliances being talked about also leave then you have serious problems.
I don't know the exact history with CO2, of course there was more leading up to this than mere cash, but it was definitely a factor. Their own CEO admitted as much. From their own goodbye statement it became clear that they often didn't see eye to eye with the leadership and chose not to speak up about, even though they could have and should have. Instead of bringing their issues to the table they chose to backstab their allies over their own built up frustrations. That is their decision and it will come to bite them in the ass at some point, but such is the nature of EVE politics I guess.
As for how much of a loss their departure is in the current climate only time will tell.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Duke Killem
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 13:06:40 -
[67] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Seriously. I was around in 2011, when PL teamed up with basically all of nullsec, killed the Northern Coalition, and took essentially all Goon space except Deklein. Goonswarm had its space back and then some a few weeks later, and the alliance that tried to kill them was shattered. The political and military realities of then and now are quite different. Defending multiple fronts from multiple attackers was trivial in the old system, where coalition meant everything and distance meant nothing. Now we see what happens when it is both a viable tactic, and there is the collective will to enact it. Exciting times if it holds.
So what we're saying is that FozzieSov has or is having the desired effect?
Tisk, tisk all you haters.. |
Sol epoch
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
283
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 13:06:47 -
[68] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Sol epoch wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Sol epoch wrote:CO2 Reset standing with the Imperium!
At last they found the Kahunas to do the right thing. Like all other events in this war, they were offered a big wad of money to give up their loyalty. And if a little bit of money is enough to tide you over, "we don't want allies like that anyway". CO2 set a trap for their own coalition and it didn't work. Now they may join a coalition of alliances that is being held together by nothing but promises of free money and Goon super kills. Once either of those start drying up, someone in that coalition is going to backstab the rest and everything will fall like dominos. And that will happen long before "The Good Guys" even have a chance of taking Deklein. So enjoy the good fights for as long as they last. These are exciting times for EVE no doubt. But Goons and the Imperium are not going anywhere :) I think you are just towing the party rhetoric with your first sentence, Loyalty/Isk wasn't the reason and you know it, Being pushed to one side by the Diplo's/leaders and keeping them in the dark over issues time and time again was more the case. I agree with your second sentence but which one is first to dry up should be your concern. There is no doubt that by them leaving you have lost a big offensive/Defensive force. If the other two alliances being talked about also leave then you have serious problems. I don't know the exact history with CO2, of course there was more leading up to this than mere cash, but it was definitely a factor. Their own CEO admitted as much. From their own goodbye statement it became clear that they often didn't see eye to eye with the leadership and chose not to speak up about, even though they could have and should have. Instead of bringing their issues to the table they chose to backstab their allies over their own built up frustrations. That is their decision and it will come to bite them in the ass at some point, but such is the nature of EVE politics I guess. As for how much of a loss their departure is in the current climate only time will tell.
I believe they did address the issues and frustrations but being ignored long enough makes you think about what you are actually doing and worth, Being taken for granted eventually leads to decisions of this type and to say they backstabbed you begs the question of who backstabbed whom first! Might be an Idea to get Scion's take on this as he was directly involved if he can be objective and not use spin. |
Duke Killem
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 13:14:44 -
[69] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:
Like all other events in this war, they were offered a big wad of money to give up their loyalty. And if a little bit of money is enough to tide you over, "we don't want allies like that anyway".
How disgusting of a corp, alliance or a single person to be offered isk to break their loyalty.....hmmmmm wasn't this has The Goons disbanded BoB? The promise of riches for one and infamy for another! |
Sol epoch
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
283
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 13:17:32 -
[70] - Quote
Duke Killem wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:
Like all other events in this war, they were offered a big wad of money to give up their loyalty. And if a little bit of money is enough to tide you over, "we don't want allies like that anyway".
How disgusting of a corp, alliance or a single person to be offered isk to break their loyalty.....hmmmmm wasn't this has The Goons disbanded BoB? The promise of riches for one and infamy for another!
It does make you think doesn't it! |
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
290
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 13:32:27 -
[71] - Quote
I'm loving the goon tears in this thread. Keep telling everyone you're the best, you might have to shout over the gunfire though. Time will tell how things turn out but I'd not underestimate how much people would like to see goons wrecked. Think of the pride people are going to feel being a major part in the downfall of eves biggest single coalition.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
559
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 13:48:50 -
[72] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You'll probably just hate whoever ends up on top.
It's what people like you do.
This, right here.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13836
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 13:59:15 -
[73] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:I'm loving the goon tears in this thread. Keep telling everyone you're the best, you might have to shout over the gunfire though. Time will tell how things turn out but I'd not underestimate how much people would like to see goons wrecked. Think of the pride people are going to feel being a major part in the downfall of eves biggest single coalition.
History always repeats itself. It remains to be seen what happens here, but I'll bet that there will be lots of reverses, imperium is so big, the war will bog down at some point, they might even take back some territory, and the spy game is going to make a huge mess too.
That being said, I can't help but read some of the posts (and pings posted at places like Reddit) and feel like it's 2009/10/11 all over again. They sound a lot like GBC and the original Northern Coalition.
I remember being in Raiden when we joined up with DRF to attack the North, NC posters on the forums were all like "the Russians and their pets hate each other more than they hate us, they will start killing each other long before they beat us!" lol. GBC said the same thing about Goons and many NC alliances. Now it's all happening again.
Does this sound familiar: Quote:by The Mittani 2011-05-24 19:00
Vale of the Silent has fallen, Geminate is long-lost, Majesta Empire and RAGE (for their sake, I have helpfully eliminated no less than four periods in their alliance name) are in retreat, evacuating to Tribute, the bastion of Morsus Mihi and the core territory of the Northern Coalition bloc. Tribute itself is now at risk, and the eyes of EVE are watching, wondering if the largest bloc in the game (with some 50k members, depending on how you do the math) is about to shatter in the face of an assault spearheaded by the Drone Russian Federation. Six months ago, the commentariat was espousing the consensus that the NC was almost embarrassingly invincible, that particular flavor of power which causes its enemies to beg for CCP to intervene on their behalf; now that same group heralds the NC's imminent doom. What the hell happened?
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7442
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:01:20 -
[74] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:I'd not underestimate how much people would like to see goons wrecked. The funny part of this is that those people include highsec players who would be laughing about goons getting destroyed. But if they go get booted out of sov space, with citadels rolling out, there's every chance it might work out worse for many highseccers.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Anyura
Dark-Rising
181
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:26:23 -
[75] - Quote
Any chance someone could do a Downfall meme video of this? |
Carn Uta
Misfits United I N G L O R I O U S
5
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:33:38 -
[76] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:I'd not underestimate how much people would like to see goons wrecked. The funny part of this is that those people include highsec players who would be laughing about goons getting destroyed. But if they go get booted out of sov space, with citadels rolling out, there's every chance it might work out worse for many highseccers.
Highsec tears - best tears
Was in a very educational forum the other day organised for newbros like me by Danielle where Porkbutte was talking about the meta game; spying, allegiances and so on. It's the bit he enjoys the most. Going to be watching this with interest. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
835
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:40:07 -
[77] - Quote
I am not ashamed of my tears. I feel sad and betrayed - who wouldn't in this situation? If as an ally for years you feel you need to go, have some basic human decency and do it in a manner acceptable for both sides.
That out of the way, though: Bring it on, "Moneybadger Coalition"! Now more than ever. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
126
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:46:33 -
[78] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:I'd not underestimate how much people would like to see goons wrecked. The funny part of this is that those people include highsec players who would be laughing about goons getting destroyed. But if they go get booted out of sov space, with citadels rolling out, there's every chance it might work out worse for many highseccers.
I don't think all the NPC stations are going away in HiSec, that's just a prophecy there, despite what CCP has said on their 'intent', it still feels like they aren't 100% decided. It will impact so much and possibly, as you say, make the current HiSec PvE lifestyle unplayable. If that happens, a good chunk of the player base may just walk away if your prediction comes true.
I'd predict that smaller citadels will be more common with reasonable tax rates due to wanting competition in the areas. Some really large corps might get in and muscle around to claim space and try to monopolize stuff, but if they force all the small corps out, it will have an adverse effect on the PvE player base and I think CCP is aware of this. They will either have to have some kind of protections for the small corps or leave NPC stations around to keep the larger corps in check.
Regardless of the final change, it will cause a fairly large disruption/rebalancing if they completely ditch the NPC stations.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
331
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:49:31 -
[79] - Quote
Id blame Prt Scr and the 569th Freelancers!
They must pay for their crimes grr! |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13836
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
Anyura wrote:Any chance someone could do a Downfall meme video of this?
Ask and ye shall receive.
|
|
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
466
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:57:02 -
[81] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You'll probably just hate whoever ends up on top.
It's what people like you do. Exactly, if it is not goons then it will be PL led coalition on top.
It is not going to make any difference for the smaller entities; you are still going to be an irrelevant pawn for the big players to manipulate.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1010
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 17:01:41 -
[82] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:I am not ashamed of my tears. I feel sad and betrayed - who wouldn't in this situation? If as an ally for years you feel you need to go, have some basic human decency and do it in a manner acceptable for both sides.
That out of the way, though: Bring it on, "Moneybadger Coalition"! Now more than ever.
Maybe your leadership should have treated them more like allies and not like pets. Because they've been talking, and it seems the CFC is even more terrible for "allies" than we thought.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7372
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 17:13:49 -
[83] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:I'd not underestimate how much people would like to see goons wrecked. The funny part of this is that those people include highsec players who would be laughing about goons getting destroyed. But if they go get booted out of sov space, with citadels rolling out, there's every chance it might work out worse for many highseccers.
This is a prediction that's been in the back of my mind as well. Since they have been all about ruining the game (well, "our" game) it's possible that we will see a boon for anti-ganking.
oops.
You know, maybe the goons will abuse bumping so much CCP will be forced to do something about it, and the gankbears currently in operation now will be, in the end, the ones crying the most.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
waltari
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
13
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 17:20:58 -
[84] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:I give it about another month or two before the "allies" start bickering and squabbling with each other about how to carve up the Goonspace they haven't even conquered yet, and flounce off all buttmad with each other.
hardly as most of allies don't give a jackshit about that space of yours |
Anyura
Dark-Rising
185
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 18:28:20 -
[85] - Quote
Oh Internet, what would I do without you? ^_^ |
Mario Putzo
1564
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 18:42:01 -
[86] - Quote
Interesting news from High Sec.
Quote:Hello, my name is Kalorned and IGÇÖm the head diplomat for the CODE. Alliance. Up until today it is well known that we have received a large portion of our funding (somewhere between 80-90%) from the Goonswarm Federation. After yesterdayGÇÖs events in M-0EEB and surrounding systems myself, loyalanon, our head FC, and Siegfried Cohenberg, our executor, were pulled aside by Goonswarm directorate and informed that our funding would be cut effective immediately. Suffice to say this is a rather sudden, hugely impacting decision made by Goons and while we respect their decision making process we can no longer support them in this war. We continue to hold high respect for Goons due to their minority status as mandated by The New Halaima Code of Conduct but we will be heading in our own direction to seek new avenues of fiscal support. We wish all the best to our friends in Goonswarm as we make this difficult decision. |
Demica Diaz
SE-1
281
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 19:07:11 -
[87] - Quote
"Without its master's command, the restless Goons will become an even greater threat to this galaxy. Control must be maintained. There must always be...the Mittani." |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1713
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 19:15:40 -
[88] - Quote
waltari wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:I give it about another month or two before the "allies" start bickering and squabbling with each other about how to carve up the Goonspace they haven't even conquered yet, and flounce off all buttmad with each other.
hardly as most of allies don't give a jackshit about that space of yours that's the worst thing about Fozziesov: people kicking the last alliance who actually gives a f... about sov. Once they win nobody will ever care....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3645
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 19:17:33 -
[89] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Dirk Magnum wrote:We are the villains Eve deserves, and the ones it needs, for we did not come to ruin the game, but your game. You wanted a war for Nullsec, and now you have one. No matter who loses, we all win in the end.
You need us so you can have someone to point to and say "that's the bad guy." These pretzels are makin me thirsty. The CFC hasn't been "villainous" in years. They sat up north running sanctums all day, and their FC's left, their dipsos were driven out, and finally the backbone of their military might, CO2, has finally realized that they've been carrying the biggest bunch of bads in EVE and abandoned you. The war is over. Now its just a game of slap the mittani till he pods himself.
Did you *SERIOUSLY* just call CO2 the CFC's backbone?
My sides. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7375
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 21:26:39 -
[90] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Interesting news from High Sec. Quote:Hello, my name is Kalorned and IGÇÖm the head diplomat for the CODE. Alliance. Up until today it is well known that we have received a large portion of our funding (somewhere between 80-90%) from the Goonswarm Federation. After yesterdayGÇÖs events in M-0EEB and surrounding systems myself, loyalanon, our head FC, and Siegfried Cohenberg, our executor, were pulled aside by Goonswarm directorate and informed that our funding would be cut effective immediately. Suffice to say this is a rather sudden, hugely impacting decision made by Goons and while we respect their decision making process we can no longer support them in this war. We continue to hold high respect for Goons due to their minority status as mandated by The New Halaima Code of Conduct but we will be heading in our own direction to seek new avenues of fiscal support. We wish all the best to our friends in Goonswarm as we make this difficult decision.
I don't believe it. They get so much loot from ganking, and their fits are so cheap, if they were actually "cut off" they could probably maintain operations well until the cows come home.
(if you have cows, or whatever).
If they were running Talos team ganks all of the time then I would wonder but T1 fit cats a dime a dozen.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
|
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
167
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 22:42:17 -
[91] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Interesting news from High Sec. Quote:Hello, my name is Kalorned and IGÇÖm the head diplomat for the CODE. Alliance. Up until today it is well known that we have received a large portion of our funding (somewhere between 80-90%) from the Goonswarm Federation. After yesterdayGÇÖs events in M-0EEB and surrounding systems myself, loyalanon, our head FC, and Siegfried Cohenberg, our executor, were pulled aside by Goonswarm directorate and informed that our funding would be cut effective immediately. Suffice to say this is a rather sudden, hugely impacting decision made by Goons and while we respect their decision making process we can no longer support them in this war. We continue to hold high respect for Goons due to their minority status as mandated by The New Halaima Code of Conduct but we will be heading in our own direction to seek new avenues of fiscal support. We wish all the best to our friends in Goonswarm as we make this difficult decision. I don't believe it. They get so much loot from ganking, and their fits are so cheap, if they were actually "cut off" they could probably maintain operations well until the cows come home. (if you have cows, or whatever). If they were running Talos team ganks all of the time then I would wonder but T1 fit cats a dime a dozen.
They have to run T1 fit cats as they are all broke,. Most of the line members spend their isk gambling....even they are supporting the end of the imperium , even if it is through the back door and without knowing
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
|
Duke Killem
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
68
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 22:55:25 -
[92] - Quote
There has to be a good book here somewhere at the end that could get Kickstarted, make someone loads in RMT!
Hahahaahahahahahaahahahahaahhahaahahaahahahahaha i can't stop..... hahahahahahahahahahahahaahah
And again.. hahahahahahahahahaahahaha. |
Duke Killem
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
68
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 23:03:21 -
[93] - Quote
Sorry but it needed more hahahahahahahahahahaah's |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7376
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 23:34:37 -
[94] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Interesting news from High Sec. Quote:Hello, my name is Kalorned and IGÇÖm the head diplomat for the CODE. Alliance. Up until today it is well known that we have received a large portion of our funding (somewhere between 80-90%) from the Goonswarm Federation. After yesterdayGÇÖs events in M-0EEB and surrounding systems myself, loyalanon, our head FC, and Siegfried Cohenberg, our executor, were pulled aside by Goonswarm directorate and informed that our funding would be cut effective immediately. Suffice to say this is a rather sudden, hugely impacting decision made by Goons and while we respect their decision making process we can no longer support them in this war. We continue to hold high respect for Goons due to their minority status as mandated by The New Halaima Code of Conduct but we will be heading in our own direction to seek new avenues of fiscal support. We wish all the best to our friends in Goonswarm as we make this difficult decision. I don't believe it. They get so much loot from ganking, and their fits are so cheap, if they were actually "cut off" they could probably maintain operations well until the cows come home. (if you have cows, or whatever). If they were running Talos team ganks all of the time then I would wonder but T1 fit cats a dime a dozen. They have to run T1 fit cats as they are all broke,. Most of the line members spend their isk gambling....even they are supporting the end of the imperium , even if it is through the back door and without knowing
I do believe you are pulling my leg.
Stahp
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7443
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 00:23:17 -
[95] - Quote
Duke Killem wrote:There has to be a good book here somewhere at the end that could get Kickstarted, make someone loads in RMT!. If by "loads" you mean "pocket change" then sure. The vast majority of that budget was going to the writer, and the benefit to the community would have been profound, but ah well.
Now back to the trash with you irrelevant NPC alt.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1018
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 03:40:46 -
[96] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Aiwha wrote:Dirk Magnum wrote:We are the villains Eve deserves, and the ones it needs, for we did not come to ruin the game, but your game. You wanted a war for Nullsec, and now you have one. No matter who loses, we all win in the end.
You need us so you can have someone to point to and say "that's the bad guy." These pretzels are makin me thirsty. The CFC hasn't been "villainous" in years. They sat up north running sanctums all day, and their FC's left, their dipsos were driven out, and finally the backbone of their military might, CO2, has finally realized that they've been carrying the biggest bunch of bads in EVE and abandoned you. The war is over. Now its just a game of slap the mittani till he pods himself. Did you *SERIOUSLY* just call CO2 the CFC's backbone? My sides.
They've contributed the most pilots and ships to the conflict out of every CFC alliance.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
400
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 04:55:49 -
[97] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Aiwha wrote:Dirk Magnum wrote:We are the villains Eve deserves, and the ones it needs, for we did not come to ruin the game, but your game. You wanted a war for Nullsec, and now you have one. No matter who loses, we all win in the end.
You need us so you can have someone to point to and say "that's the bad guy." These pretzels are makin me thirsty. The CFC hasn't been "villainous" in years. They sat up north running sanctums all day, and their FC's left, their dipsos were driven out, and finally the backbone of their military might, CO2, has finally realized that they've been carrying the biggest bunch of bads in EVE and abandoned you. The war is over. Now its just a game of slap the mittani till he pods himself. Did you *SERIOUSLY* just call CO2 the CFC's backbone? My sides.
Kinda looking that way isn't it. Oh, you didn't see all the goon tears? All I hear from Mittwtf is waaaaa. |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
753
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 05:10:53 -
[98] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You'll probably just hate whoever ends up on top.
It's what people like you do.
You could be forgiven for thinking the get stiffness in their necks from staring up for so long.
Bugenhagen had a quote about such a phenomenon.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7443
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 06:47:50 -
[99] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Did you *SERIOUSLY* just call CO2 the CFC's backbone?
My sides. They've contributed the most pilots and ships to the conflict out of every CFC alliance. *sniff sniff* Smells like bullshit bub.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations RAZOR Alliance
477
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 07:29:52 -
[100] - Quote
Time to break out the popcorn.
We have corruption, betrayal, backstabbing and backbiting out in the sticks
Its like a great big Shakespearean Drama out here.
Loving it
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
|
Duke Killem
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
69
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 08:17:49 -
[101] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:
the benefit to the community would have been profound, but ah well.
I think you need to look up the definition of profound. |
Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2168
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 08:30:43 -
[102] - Quote
PL because of their tendency to blob when it's unnecessary
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7443
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 08:55:35 -
[103] - Quote
Duke Killem wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:the benefit to the community would have been profound, but ah well. I think you need to look up the definition of profound. Nope, I'm well aware and it's spot on. The funny thing is if someone you didn't hate proposed the exact same project, you'd probably agree. That's the problem with bias.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
43
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 08:57:42 -
[104] - Quote
Have you ever seen so many tears in your life? From what I heard today, GrrrrGoons are being told what to do. Sure their mitten wearing kitten gurgles excuses to make things look like someone's in charge. But, hey. Goons are in charge. So no one's driving. Grats on the hefty losses to the scrubs there Goons. "What we .... going to do?" What you're told, apparently. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
846
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 10:54:20 -
[105] - Quote
This thread is not about what goons are going to do. We will just keep doing what we've doing all along. It's the Grrgoons faction that's asking the question as if they had won yet.
Keep the grrr coming, we're here to stay. |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution The Initiative.
482
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 12:15:32 -
[106] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Duke Killem wrote:There has to be a good book here somewhere at the end that could get Kickstarted, make someone loads in RMT!. If by "loads" you mean "pocket change" then sure. The vast majority of that budget was going to the writer, and the benefit to the community would have been profound, but ah well. Now back to the trash with you irrelevant NPC alt.
I always wondered whether anyone actually fell for mittens Kool aid, and here you are.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1018
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 12:24:11 -
[107] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:This thread is not about what goons are going to do. We will just keep doing what we've doing all along. It's the Grrgoons faction that's asking the question as if they had won yet.
Keep the grrr coming, we're here to stay.
If by "here to stay" you mean you'll sit in highsec till IWI gets tired of diddling you, then take some space in the ass end of nowhere, sure, you'll "stay".
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1714
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 12:36:44 -
[108] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Neuntausend wrote:This thread is not about what goons are going to do. We will just keep doing what we've doing all along. It's the Grrgoons faction that's asking the question as if they had won yet.
Keep the grrr coming, we're here to stay. If by "here to stay" you mean you'll sit in highsec till IWI gets tired of diddling you, then take some space in the ass end of nowhere, sure, you'll "stay". You are too proud of IWI 'diddling goons'. Why? Isn't it YOU who YOU should be proud of?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7443
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 12:58:35 -
[109] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:I always wondered whether anyone actually fell for mittens Kool aid, and here you are. None of that came from Mittani, that was independently checked with the writer ad by looking at what their spending plan was vs likely costs. Unlike you I don;t automatically believe anything I'm told. Let's face it though, you hated it because it's Mittani. That just goes to show how insanely butthurt you are, that you can't even see past you own bias to come to your own independent conclusions.
Aiwha wrote:If by "here to stay" you mean you'll sit in highsec till IWI gets tired of diddling you, then take some space in the ass end of nowhere, sure, you'll "stay". IWI will rapidly tire, since all the time they are spending isk paying scrubs to attack goons, they've got less to RMT. There's only so long they'll be willing to affect their bottom line. At the end of the day feeding us content isn't going to get rid of us, and ISK alone doesn't create the long term strategy that would be required to destroy the Imperium.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1084
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 13:36:59 -
[110] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Apparently BoB's not dead.
Let's hope they rise from the ashes; and under the protection of Texas Law, become the new entity to hate (though I'm more likely to laugh).
Let`s hope there is no GM involve in this war then...... |
|
Merrc
Merrc Corporation Immortalis Aegis
4
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 13:45:38 -
[111] - Quote
The problem up there atm is FCON, they have their **** together. The rest of the area is not well protected. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
849
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 14:41:00 -
[112] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:If by "here to stay" you mean you'll sit in highsec till IWI gets tired of diddling you, then take some space in the ass end of nowhere, sure, you'll "stay".
Such big words. Please try and make it happen, will you? |
flakeys
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
3249
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 15:14:08 -
[113] - Quote
Sister MaryElephant wrote:Goon hubris...... If Darius returns it might be interesting....status quo....well....lolMittens can always write another book. Also...in the spirit of things...paging Butterdog
Ow **** yeah butterdog .... that guy has been gone for ages hasn't he?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
400
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 15:24:06 -
[114] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote: I don't know the exact history with CO2, of course there was more leading up to this than mere cash, but it was definitely a factor. Their own CEO admitted as much. From their own goodbye statement it became clear that they often didn't see eye to eye with the leadership and chose not to speak up about, even though they could have and should have. Instead of bringing their issues to the table they chose to backstab their allies over their own built up frustrations. That is their decision and it will come to bite them in the ass at some point, but such is the nature of EVE politics I guess.
As for how much of a loss their departure is in the current climate only time will tell.
Yea, cause not wanting to play internet spaceships with a bunch of lamers is backstabbing.
And here it is, all over the forums how big bad CO2 doesn't play nice.
OMG. CO2 backstabbed us.
What are you 2?
Has nothing to do with that you're a bunch of farmboy lame PVE'ers. |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution The Initiative.
483
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 15:27:00 -
[115] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:IWI will rapidly tire, since all the time they are spending isk paying scrubs to attack goons, they've got less to RMT. There's only so long they'll be willing to affect their bottom line. At the end of the day feeding us content isn't going to get rid of us, and ISK alone doesn't create the long term strategy that would be required to destroy the Imperium.
I suppose evaccing is content of a sort
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution The Initiative.
483
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 15:31:05 -
[116] - Quote
deleted
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
849
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 16:08:41 -
[117] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Yea, cause not wanting to play internet spaceships with a bunch of lamers is backstabbing.
I am willing to accept that CO2 were unhappy with their allies, with Goonswarm, with the Imperium leadership or what have you - those things happen. Leaving because of that is not backstabbing per se. It's all in the way you make your exit. Turning coats without warning right when a war starts getting hot, literally just after having fought for hours side for by side with what was considered their allies up to that point to defend their own Sov, willingly or at least knowingly putting said allies war assets at risk - yeah, that's backstabbing alright.
In any case - whether there was a trap planned or not, we came out of this pretty much unscathed. If you don't count broken hearts, that is. So in the end, all this served to do was to make us angry. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
400
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 16:47:40 -
[118] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Yea, cause not wanting to play internet spaceships with a bunch of lamers is backstabbing. I am willing to accept that CO2 were unhappy with their allies, with Goonswarm, with the Imperium leadership or what have you - those things happen. Leaving because of that is not backstabbing per se. It's all in the way you make your exit. Turning coats without warning right when a war starts getting hot, literally just after having fought for hours side by side with what was considered their allies up to that point to defend their own Sov, willingly or at least knowingly putting said allies war assets at risk - yeah, that's backstabbing alright. In any case - whether there was a trap planned or not, we came out of this pretty much unscathed. If you don't count broken hearts, that is. So in the end, all this served to do was to make us angry.
Probably should check your history then. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
849
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 16:52:34 -
[119] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Probably should check your history then.
Could you elaborate? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7377
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 17:10:59 -
[120] - Quote
Let's be honest here.
- So what if nullsec becomes a place where everybody hates each other. What were all those bubble camps being done out of love this whole time? Was killing everything that was not blue without hesitation being driven by something like sexual desire? (nobody answer that, please. I like to presume everybody is playing Eve with BOTH hands).
- Is not nullsec supposed to be a bubbling cauldron of PVP? I've been to goonie space, and what did I find? Farmers everywhere. Imperium "sold" nullsec with farming opportunities, while pointing at highsec farmers and declared they were inferior risk-averse carebears for not being in nullsec.
- We really don't care about Mittani, who he is, etc. Stop it with the self-importance. Stop acting like women who assume everybody is trying to touch them.
- "The goals of the anti-goon coalition are not wholesome and pure!" People not being motivated by altruism and goodness? In Eve Online? OMG OMG! Hey wait a minute almost every ship has weapons mounted on them...
- A good time will be had by all. Isn't this supposed to be a PVP game?
I'm starting to think maybe we should all just go and get blown the f**k up and get drunk doing it. Cut the uppity attitudes, cut the sperging, stop caring about muh ISK/muh stats for once and treat the clone vat like a COD respawn point.
.. starting to get an itch here....
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
850
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 17:23:05 -
[121] - Quote
I'm not complaining about a war. Nullsec has been waiting way too long for this. It's mostly people from the "Good Guys" side that spin this whole thing to be about The Mittani something something Book Kickstarter something something RMT.
Be that as it may, though, propaganda is just as much a part of this as is random violence. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
400
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 17:24:50 -
[122] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Probably should check your history then. Could you elaborate?
Ah, yes, propaganda from the whiney pver's. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
850
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 17:36:34 -
[123] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Probably should check your history then. Could you elaborate? Ah, yes, propaganda from the whiney pver's.
So ... nothing. Not surprised. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7377
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 17:44:10 -
[124] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:I'm not complaining about a war. Nullsec has been waiting way too long for this. It's mostly people from the "Good Guys" side that spin this whole thing to be about The Mittani something something Book Kickstarter something something RMT.
Be that as it may, though, propaganda is just as much a part of this as is random violence.
Aye but this is like the subject of suicide ganking and bumping. Who, not being a forum reader nor knowing the politics and arguments on the topic, know about this? Your post is the first mention I see of it. What book? What kickstarter?
How many of the rank and file know of this, or even care? When I see the topic of RMT I don't pay it much mind because those who do it are either really good at it and won't be caught OR I'm confident that CCP will drop a mighty hammer of justice on them sooner or later.
I don't think many players know of it, and many who do won't care. And who assumes that there are "good guys"? Anybody purporting to be a good guy that you don't know "personally" (in game or as far as that can apply to this game) are generally assumed to be pretending. The same people shooting goons today are going to shoot me tomorrow if I give them a chance. And it would be foolish to assume otherwise.
Good thing we have weapons hardpoints.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
851
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 18:02:09 -
[125] - Quote
You clearly haven't been paying attention. The people that have banded together to Fight the Imperium are calling themselves "Voltron", "Moneybadger Coalition", "Good Guys", "Allied Forces". So, it's just their name. I can also refer to them as "Those Guys" or "The Enemy" or "Steve". |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
400
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 18:49:45 -
[126] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Probably should check your history then. Could you elaborate? Ah, yes, propaganda from the whiney pver's. So ... nothing. Not surprised.
Awww, you think I'm going to argue with a goon crybabie pve'er whining on the forums.
Isn't that cute.
Moar tears goon. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3646
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 18:51:16 -
[127] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Awww, you think I'm going to argue with a goon crybabie pve'er whining on the forums.
Isn't that cute.
Moar tears goon.
Honestly the person who is coming off as emotional and unstable right now is you. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
7475
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 19:02:38 -
[128] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:You clearly haven't been paying attention. The people that have banded together to Fight the Imperium are calling themselves "Voltron", "Moneybadger Coalition", "Good Guys", "Allied Forces". So, it's just their name. I can also refer to them as "those guys" or "the enemy" or "Steve". Well, you are right, Its not really about how enemy is called. Its more about "those guys" who are kicking your butts. What you are going to do beside calling them "steve"? The response for now was... lacking. From history you could observe that Romans thru hundred of years (yes they had an imperium for HUNDREDS of years) have been many times in dire straits. They survived. not because they took heavy beating and started calling others "steve", they just went there and massacred those who tried to beat them into submission.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
853
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 19:15:11 -
[129] - Quote
The romans never had the rest of the world gang up on them and form an army, equal in size and equipment, but lo and behold, where are the Romans now?
Keep the big talk for when you are flipping the YA0 outpost. Until then, you are just a windbag throwing poop. I am not saying you aren't capable of that, I'm also not saying you are - I am a sceptic. Earn your bragging rights is all I am saying. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
7476
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 19:34:00 -
[130] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:The romans never had the rest of the world gang up on them and form an army, equal in size and equipment, but lo and behold, where are the Romans now?
Keep the big talk for when you are flipping the YA0 outpost. Until then, you are just a windbag throwing poop. I am not saying you aren't capable of that, I'm also not saying you are - I am a sceptic. Earn your bragging rights is all I am saying. Ha, i dont fight in your wars. I am here just to point your weakness. You have to find your own strenths, those that are left, not ignore them or give them shaft, or you will all be completely ridiculed as for now.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
|
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
400
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 19:57:14 -
[131] - Quote
Where are goons hiding. We're coming for you. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
854
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 22:18:45 -
[132] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote: Ha, i dont fight in your wars. I am here just to point your weakness. You have to find your own strenths, those that are left, not ignore them or give them shaft, or you will all be completely ridiculed as for now.
Oh, so you're an armchair general giving advice from the sidelines. In that case - thank you! Much appreciated. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
7480
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 22:28:02 -
[133] - Quote
General? I am only talking about what you goons should know already by now. Or you will find your Fabius Maximus or you deserve to lose the war.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7379
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 22:46:35 -
[134] - Quote
Some campaign name or slogan ideas for this nullsec anti-goon endeavor:
Operation Grrr They Didn't Want That Space Anyway Highsec Liberation Front The Great War The Other Great War (if you disagree on which great war was which) Steve Coalition In Nullsec, Russians Invade YOU Comeuppance Coalition Operation Bitter Harvest Ship Replacement Program (*giggle*) Make Nullsec Great Again
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1437
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 22:51:38 -
[135] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Some campaign name or slogan ideas for this nullsec anti-goon endeavor:
Operation Grrr They Didn't Want That Space Anyway Highsec Liberation Front The Great War The Other Great War (if you disagree on which great war was which) Steve Coalition In Nullsec, Russians Invade YOU Comeuppance Coalition Operation Bitter Harvest Ship Replacement Program (*giggle*) Make Nullsec Great Again
You're late to the naming party. Pretty sure it's been dubbed the Easter War already.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
400
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 23:03:26 -
[136] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Nana Skalski wrote: Ha, i dont fight in your wars. I am here just to point your weakness. You have to find your own strenths, those that are left, not ignore them or give them shaft, or you will all be completely ridiculed as for now.
Oh, so you're an armchair general giving advice from the sidelines. In that case - thank you! Much appreciated.
Seems you need a general.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Deklein
Wut's this about VFK? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7379
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 23:09:23 -
[137] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Some campaign name or slogan ideas for this nullsec anti-goon endeavor:
Operation Grrr They Didn't Want That Space Anyway Highsec Liberation Front The Great War The Other Great War (if you disagree on which great war was which) Steve Coalition In Nullsec, Russians Invade YOU Comeuppance Coalition Operation Bitter Harvest Ship Replacement Program (*giggle*) Make Nullsec Great Again You're late to the naming party. Pretty sure it's been dubbed the Easter War already.
Meh. You guys are almost as bad as pirates when it comes to naming things.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
855
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 23:56:17 -
[138] - Quote
Yeah. Fountain War, Halloween War, Easter War ... what's up with that? Even astronomers can be more creative than that, and they literally call their extremely large telescope "extremely large telescope". |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
542
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 00:17:40 -
[139] - Quote
I don't want to steal credit but the best I heard so far was World War Bee
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
7
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 04:21:52 -
[140] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Sister MaryElephant wrote:Goon hubris...... If Darius returns it might be interesting....status quo....well....lolMittens can always write another book. Also...in the spirit of things...paging Butterdog Ow **** yeah butterdog .... that guy has been gone for ages hasn't he?
Sadly yes. Rabid foaming mouth-breathing kick-boxing butters stirring **** on CAOD. Reddit posts have nothing on the old days
|
|
Yolandar
Estrogen Industrial Enterprises
90
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 04:54:15 -
[141] - Quote
All hail our new grrgoons overlords |
flakeys
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
3250
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 09:53:45 -
[142] - Quote
Sister MaryElephant wrote:flakeys wrote:Sister MaryElephant wrote:Goon hubris...... If Darius returns it might be interesting....status quo....well....lolMittens can always write another book. Also...in the spirit of things...paging Butterdog Ow **** yeah butterdog .... that guy has been gone for ages hasn't he? Sadly yes. Rabid foaming mouth-breathing kick-boxing butters stirring **** on CAOD. Reddit posts have nothing on the old days
Well a lot of the times he actually made sense ... in a weird psychotic way as only he could.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution The Initiative.
484
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 10:45:39 -
[143] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:You clearly haven't been paying attention. The people that have banded together to Fight the Imperium are calling themselves "Voltron", "Moneybadger Coalition", "Good Guys", "Allied Forces". So, it's just their name. I can also refer to them as "those guys" or "the enemy" or "Steve".
Steve is good
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Deadmeat Zukalick
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 12:56:03 -
[144] - Quote
I hope that there are doctors on standby at all the hospitals. Cause with all this chest thumping going on in this thread there is going to be a lot of bruised ribs out there.
|
Verlyn
Teutate raiders DARKNESS.
58
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 13:32:59 -
[145] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:This thread is not about what goons are going to do. We will just keep doing what we've doing all along. It's the Grrgoons faction that's asking the question as if they had won yet.
Keep the grrr coming, we're here to stay.
Oh well that's just silly.
We all know you'll stay, Goons, just not in the current basket.
Fly safe ! o7 |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1020
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 13:38:31 -
[146] - Quote
Deadmeat Zukalick wrote:I hope that there are doctors on standby at all the hospitals. Cause with all this chest thumping going on in this thread there is going to be a lot of bruised ribs out there.
Its more moob waggling than chest thumping. This is EVE after all.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1115
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 14:07:27 -
[147] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Meh. You guys are almost as bad as pirates when it comes to naming things.
Neuntausend wrote:Yeah. Fountain War, Halloween War, Easter War ... what's up with that? Even astronomers can be more creative than that, and they literally call their extremely large telescope "extremely large telescope".
Well, other people call it "World War Bee" or "Mercenary War" or something. Here, if that helps.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
|
Verlyn
Teutate raiders DARKNESS.
58
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 21:55:34 -
[148] - Quote
I'll just leave that here.
https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002938/
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1021
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 01:50:15 -
[149] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Meh. You guys are almost as bad as pirates when it comes to naming things. Neuntausend wrote:Yeah. Fountain War, Halloween War, Easter War ... what's up with that? Even astronomers can be more creative than that, and they literally call their extremely large telescope "extremely large telescope". Well, other people call it "World War Bee" or "Mercenary War" or something. Here, if that helps.
Its world war bee. The Mittani wants it called "the mercenary war", but he also wants everybody to say he's winning it.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
864
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 03:38:01 -
[150] - Quote
World War Bee is ok-ish.
Considerate as I am, what would you like everyone to be saying? |
|
ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
355
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 06:52:01 -
[151] - Quote
Quote: 36. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.
More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
I have removed the offending material, and those quoting it.
~ISD Buldath
Commander
Support, Training and Resources Division
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.
|
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 07:26:53 -
[152] - Quote
The Imperium is a disguisting fraud! A FRAUD! There is only one HOLY and JUST Empire, and that's is the Amarr! The Mittani has created the greatest perversion of against God's ever orchestrated! May he and his followers burn! |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1024
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 10:54:53 -
[153] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:The Imperium is a disguisting fraud! A FRAUD! There is only one HOLY and JUST Empire, and that's is the Amarr! The Mittani has created the greatest perversion of against God's ever orchestrated! May he and his followers burn!
>Republic Military School
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
873
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 16:06:33 -
[154] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:The Imperium is a disguisting fraud! A FRAUD! There is only one HOLY and JUST Empire, and that's is the Amarr! The Mittani has created the greatest perversion of against God's ever orchestrated! May he and his followers burn! >Republic Military School
Forget it, he's rolling.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
|
Duke Killem
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 18:29:05 -
[155] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Some campaign name or slogan ideas for this nullsec anti-goon endeavor:
Operation Grrr They Didn't Want That Space Anyway Highsec Liberation Front The Great War The Other Great War (if you disagree on which great war was which) Steve Coalition In Nullsec, Russians Invade YOU Comeuppance Coalition Operation Bitter Harvest Ship Replacement Program (*giggle*) Make Nullsec Great Again You're late to the naming party. Pretty sure it's been dubbed the Easter War already.
Easter War? As in find a Goon Titan and crack it open? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7398
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 20:03:14 -
[156] - Quote
Some interesting and rather gripping account of the war as of yesterday.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
833
|
Posted - 2016.04.03 04:05:18 -
[157] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:World War Bee is ok-ish.
Considerate as I am, what would you like everyone to be saying?
Is that "war" for real ? What is the objectives of allied forces? Not even sure how allied they are. Beetwen the lines i could only see PL/NC, & TEST. Especially now, it looks like the planned departure from WC was planned ahead as well as CO2 leaves away from The Imperium wings. Not sure how much of influence SMA vs. IWI got onto this war even after nicely prepared article from TMC. Definitely TISHU got overexcited of "impact" they did to SMA. Current wons on allied forces is nothing as much of the tactical advantages. But we all know that long term strategy is the only thing you should work hard on. I wonder if PL wants to pay back for SC fleet they did lost during BR?
Whoever "won" this conflict either GSF or TEST (Test Legion sorry guys but always got that pic when TEST is fighting vs. GSF) it's gonna be same strategic objectives - blue doughnut' |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1034
|
Posted - 2016.04.03 10:04:17 -
[158] - Quote
The objective is to make goons cry and/or abandon their coalition. So far, we're doing pretty well. Co2 is out. LAWN/Bastion have been evicted, SMA's leader biomassed, and RAZOR is playing hermit.
I think the next major victory is going to be forcing FCON to defect.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
873
|
Posted - 2016.04.03 10:58:25 -
[159] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Is that "war" for real ? From my perspective, I'd say yes. There's a war going on and the enemy is upon us. Looking at dotlan and zkillboard this should be obvious. How long it will last, and how dangerous it will be for us, we have yet to see. We are still at a stage of high morale on all sides with lots of smacking and chest pumping all around.
Quote:What is the objectives of allied forces? Not even sure how allied they are. Beetwen the lines i could only see PL/NC, & TEST. I wouldn't be able to say if they themselves know what their objectives are. From where I'm standing they are either all over the place or cover pretty much everything from total annihilation, over claiming our sov or just creating some content and having fun to mere riding on the bandwagon, and if you believe reddit, the objectives appear to shift from day to day. However, reddit is also just an amalgamation of all kinds of opinions. Everyone can post there, from alliance leaders over line members and camp followers to armchair generals and people who don't even have a horse in the race.
Our objectives are pretty clear: Survive, and then retaliate once the MBC starts falling apart. If I was part of the MBC, I'd try and make sure the Imperium alliances end up completely broken and scattered afterwards. While the MBC, with their powers combined is a force to be reckoned with, this truce will likely not last long after the war is over, and most of the allied entities on their own are no match, even for a weakened FCON, Razor or Condi, and if we end up surviving, we'll have many a bone to pick.
Quote:Especially now, it looks like the planned departure from WC was planned ahead as well as CO2 leaves away from The Imperium wings. Not sure how much of influence SMA vs. IWI got onto this war even after nicely prepared article from TMC. Definitely TISHU got overexcited of "impact" they did to SMA. Current wons on allied forces is nothing as much of the tactical advantages. But we all know that long term strategy is the only thing you should work hard on. I do not have a lot of insight on the inner workings of coalitions. From what I can see, based on what Corps Diplomatique is willing to share, the CO2 incident has been a long time coming, although most of us would have wished for them to leave on good terms at least.
On the involvement of IWI - we'll probably never know for sure just how much they are contributing. Within the narrative, it makes a lot of sense: We are not exactly well liked by all kinds of very different groups, so all it takes for them to forget their own quarrels and disagreements might be a bunch of money. For me, that's as good an explanation as any.
Quote:I wonder if PL wants to pay back for SC fleet they did lost during BR? I consider this likely. But again, we may never know for sure. Motivations are a difficult thing to figure out.
Quote:Whoever "won" this conflict either GSF or TEST ( Test Legion sorry guys but always got that pic when TEST is fighting vs. GSF) it's gonna be same strategic objectives - blue doughnut' Test appears to be one of the very few groups with an actual goal in this, as far as 0.0 mechanics are concerned: They want Vale, apparently, and they'll get it.
Assuming we survive this, though, there may be no winners at all in the end.
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
8
|
Posted - 2016.04.04 03:53:11 -
[160] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:
Assuming we survive this, though, there may be no winners at all in the end.
EvE wins. Ten years of "ruin your game" is probably enough. Swings and roundabouts....
|
|
Verlyn
Teutate raiders DARKNESS.
58
|
Posted - 2016.04.04 11:09:53 -
[161] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote: Assuming we survive this, though, there may be no winners at all in the end.
https://media.giphy.com/media/f3sCQesK5Ck1i/giphy.gif |
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
9
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 08:13:33 -
[162] - Quote
Apparently Shadoo has logged back into game.
Legendary
I mean honestly...in terrible analogy terms this is Moses-parting-the-sea levels of awesome.
Oh and that sharting sound? Mitler & Co overfilling his stupid fedora |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 08:47:30 -
[163] - Quote
Is Shadoo the ragey one? Who's Mitler?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 09:22:48 -
[164] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Is Shadoo the ragey one? No, that's you. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 09:34:51 -
[165] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Is Shadoo the ragey one? No, that's you. Take you long to think that one up? Legit though, I think Shadoo is the ragey one.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4539
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 09:59:46 -
[166] - Quote
"oh snaps" |
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
10
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 11:31:15 -
[167] - Quote
"when we have the advantage we will destroy the enemy with unmitigated savagery"
"intelligence from our Black Hand agents"
"CCP has for the first time decided to try to 'name' a war after Goonswarm"
"Each system of sov lost and each CSAA destroyed by the Band of Backstabbers and their minions and bootlickers will be repaid in raw suffering"
Honestly what an utterly sperging shitlord.
Molle may have lost nigh these many years ago (thanks mainly to a stupid game mechanic back stab that the aforementioned shitlord took credit for)....but damn....the shitlord king uses a ton of words to try say what Molle said eloquently and succinctly:
"There are no Goons" "You are ALL Dead"
The above brought to you by the "Leaders-v-Raging Shitlord Managerial Appreciation Society
p.s. Butterdog Butterdog Butterdog |
Verlyn
Teutate raiders DARKNESS.
58
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 11:54:55 -
[168] - Quote
So much pointless stupid in one post.
Time to reassess your life Mr Mittens. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1064
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 14:57:28 -
[169] - Quote
It just gets better every time I read it.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
899
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 15:08:30 -
[170] - Quote
I kind of wish we could have this sort of thread all the time again in CAOD. |
|
Varathius
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
225
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 16:07:13 -
[171] - Quote
These deja-vus about goons dying on this forum... man. |
Homo Erectus
Evolution Northern Coalition.
74
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 19:35:29 -
[172] - Quote
This seems fun. |
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
206
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 20:44:29 -
[173] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Is Shadoo the ragey one? No, that's you. Take you long to think that one up? Legit though, I think Shadoo is the ragey one.
Wew, there's enough salt there to fill five Dead Seas. It's completely understandable though. This war has gone totally pear-shaped for SMA, especially the poor line members.
[ 2016.01.05 23:16:53 ] Antabor Aldent > anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
[ 2016.01.05 23:17:39 ] Anoron Secheh > grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
518
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 20:46:44 -
[174] - Quote
Goons will never be completely defeated.
They may actually become more likeable if they are knocked in the dirt and have to rebuild from nothing.
|
Mario Putzo
1570
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 20:57:01 -
[175] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:Goons will never be completely defeated.
They may actually become more likeable if they are knocked in the dirt and have to rebuild from nothing.
Worked for BoB. Everyone seems to love the former BoB guys right now. (You will find them in NC. and PL) |
Kamahl Daikun
Back To Basics. Tactical Supremacy
122
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 22:14:34 -
[176] - Quote
I don't know who any of these people are. Mittani sounds like an IKEA knockoff and this whole war thing is stupid. You guys are stupid. Shut up. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4539
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 22:31:26 -
[177] - Quote
oh, ok
sorry |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7423
|
Posted - 2016.04.06 23:36:42 -
[178] - Quote
Rather interesting that goons have resorted to "timer fu".
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
573
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 00:21:09 -
[179] - Quote
Im awaiting with bated breath as to what the PL move op today is leading to now they have Shadoo back.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1065
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 00:26:49 -
[180] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Im awaiting with bated breath as to what the PL move op today is leading to now they have Shadoo back.
I want a shadoo vs vee fleet op with fleet concepts straight out of 2009.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
573
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 00:49:25 -
[181] - Quote
Ey 2009 was a good year for incisive posting from mittens as well
https://www.themittani.com/content/20-inside-failure-cascade
Have a read of that :)
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
317
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 06:46:53 -
[182] - Quote
Regardless of what happens in the meantime, it's going to be interesting when all these guilds come together at fanfest in a couple of weeks.
"Guilds" courtesy of a recent armchair interview about the ongoing war by Mittens. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
412
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 09:05:07 -
[183] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Regardless of what happens in the meantime, it's going to be interesting when all these guilds come together at fanfest in a couple of weeks.
"Guilds" courtesy of a recent armchair interview about the ongoing war by Mittens.
what happens in-game should stay in-game.
but having said that, i hope CCP would put extra security and control especially when people started drinking or else it would be a very disastrous PR if something bad happens. this incident would even negatively affect, imho, Iceland.
Just Add Water
|
Speedkermit Damo
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
486
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 14:03:24 -
[184] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:
Our objectives are pretty clear: Survive, and then retaliate once the MBC starts falling apart. If I was part of the MBC, I'd try and make sure the Imperium alliances end up completely broken and scattered afterwards. While the MBC, with their powers combined is a force to be reckoned with, this truce will likely not last long after the war is over, and most of the allied entities on their own are no match, even for a weakened FCON, Razor or Condi, and if we end up surviving, we'll have many a bone to pick.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.
Niccol+¦ Machiavelli
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 15:05:38 -
[185] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Wew, there's enough salt there to fill five Dead Seas. It's completely understandable though. This war has gone totally pear-shaped for SMA, especially the poor line members. Yes yes, I'm sure everything is salt to you. In what way has it gone pear shaped? We've temporarily lost some space to players who have no intention of holding it, and in the meantime we get loads of the content that we as EVE players enjoy. I've been in considerably worse situations than this in the past - including being cut off from nearly all of my assets and trying to evac through hostile space before my time in SMA - and at that point I wasn't even rolling around in enough isk to keep me subbed until I died of natural causes like I am now.
See what you're doing is projecting. Because if you were in the same situation you'd be bawling your eyes out and screaming about how it's the end of the game for you, you expect that's how we are dealing with it. But that's not who we are. We're battleworn veterans who can adapt to hard times. Sure, we won't win every fight and sometimes we have to suffer a loss, but in the long run we'll be back in fade, and your little coalition will be in pieces crying about the blue doughnut again. We weren't worried when you were BNI, you really think your name change worries us?
Ed: Omigodz sorry for all the salt there guys.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
902
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 15:17:04 -
[186] - Quote
Aye, some people are so desperate for tears that they see them everywhere, even if there are none at times. It's rather embarassing, to be honest - but then again I am a bit prone to feeling embarassed on someone elses behalf. So far, we are pretty happy with this, except for that dude who randomly keeps crying for changes to Aegis to reduce timers and make Ihubs cheaper. He really needs to harden up. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1067
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 19:00:41 -
[187] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/DWAqCry.png
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2725
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 20:47:17 -
[188] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Aye, some people are so desperate for tears that they see them everywhere, even if there are none at times. It's rather embarassing, to be honest - but then again I am a bit prone to feeling embarassed on someone elses behalf. So far, we are pretty happy with this, except for that dude who randomly keeps crying for changes to Aegis to reduce timers and make Ihubs cheaper. He really needs to harden up.
There are people crying and people not crying. Everybody just borderline ignore one of those 2 group because of their respective narrative. The amount of spin this conflict has is just stupid by now imo. If we could apply all that spin to a dynamo, China could stop burning coal for electricity...
People are crying, people are not crying, fights are taken, blueball happen, systems are flipped, systems are saved, .... |
Mario Putzo
1571
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 21:44:26 -
[189] - Quote
They taking this time to blame it all on their allies apparently. So there is that.
http://pastebin.com/scKpkm6j
Totally not GSF leaderships fault, just all those ******** "valued allies" they have. Idiots acting like everything is fine, despite Mittens telling everyone for weeks everything is fine.
(warning lots of goon skyteam tears and blame game going on nah JK you don't need a warning its all gold.) |
Loucxious Leopold
Dredge Nation Solyaris Chtonium
3
|
Posted - 2016.04.07 22:30:21 -
[190] - Quote
I am not sure where are the tears are. Being effectively immortal, the losses of property really are only transitional.
What is not transitional is the propaganda war. On that, I think the Imperium has not had much success, and in fact may have hurt their cause with some ill tempered remarks.
Before the war, I heard of the Mittani through some of his antics: the Space Pope, the Book, various mentions of him at player gatherings and so on. I imagined him to be like Les Grossman from the movie Tropic Thunder.
After reading the psychotic rant he put out about the goings on in the current conflict, I have a rather different view however. He now reminds me of Pee Wee Herman after his bike was stolen.
|
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
208
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 00:43:45 -
[191] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:See what you're doing is projecting. Because if you were in the same situation you'd be bawling your eyes out and screaming about how it's the end of the game for you, you expect that's how we are dealing with it. But that's not who we are. We're battleworn veterans who can adapt to hard times. Sure, we won't win every fight and sometimes we have to suffer a loss, but in the long run we'll be back in fade, and your little coalition will be in pieces crying about the blue doughnut again. We weren't worried when you were BNI, you really think your name change worries us?
Me? I was never in BNI. I am ex-SMA, if only for a short time, so I know what the deal is inside your alliance. I don't even care about Horde's history -- that has nothing to do with me.
And as for your own claims about SMA: "Battleworn veterans" my posterior. You're a bunch of carebears. Own up to that; everyone in the universe knows it. And your line about coming back to Fade is straight from Mittani's lips. You've got to put all of your trust in him because that's all you've got right now. Maybe your alliance will survive this and you'll get Fade back, or part of it. Or maybe one of the MBC who have had no trouble taking it from you will decide they like living there and will want to stay. If that happens, I don't think SMA will be able to take it back. All your good FCs and PvP corps have left.
In any case, I wish you guys luck, I think you'll need it.
[ 2016.01.05 23:16:53 ] Antabor Aldent > anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
[ 2016.01.05 23:17:39 ] Anoron Secheh > grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
401
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 05:10:33 -
[192] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:If the allied forces now smelling blood in the water and massing like a school of sharks around the corrupt and soon to be defunct (probably, hopefully) Imperium what are we grrrgoon folks going do do? Who are we going to hate? Who can we blame? May i be the first to blame Seraph IX Basarab ? All the ills in the world have to be someones fault and he has stuck his head over the parapet.
Hide in their stations. Not that it's working for them so far. |
Mario Putzo
1572
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 05:27:09 -
[193] - Quote
They just lost SMA, their relevant leadership has left. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
160
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 05:31:08 -
[194] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:They just lost SMA, their relevant leadership has left. Glorious:
http://i.imgur.com/cRkf9Pr.png
The spin from our resident forum monkey should be interesting. |
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
68
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 06:40:44 -
[195] - Quote
Well looks like they just lost Ivory and Zack as well... https://i.imgur.com/OFMMcM2.png |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 06:57:52 -
[196] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Me? I was never in BNI. I am ex-SMA, if only for a short time, so I know what the deal is inside your alliance. I don't even care about Horde's history -- that has nothing to do with me. You can't really say that while being in BNI.
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:And as for your own claims about SMA: "Battleworn veterans" my posterior. You're a bunch of carebears. Own up to that; everyone in the universe knows it. And your line about coming back to Fade is straight from Mittani's lips. You've got to put all of your trust in him because that's all you've got right now. Maybe your alliance will survive this and you'll get Fade back, or part of it. Or maybe one of the MBC who have had no trouble taking it from you will decide they like living there and will want to stay. If that happens, I don't think SMA will be able to take it back. All your good FCs and PvP corps have left.
In any case, I wish you guys luck, I think you'll need it. Proof enough that whatever time you were in SMA for was incredibly short and your exposure limited. MBC don't want the sov and even if they do want it they won't be able to keep it since fozziesov almost guarantees a loss for the defender in anything even resembling and even fight. And sure, maybe SMA won't survive, but the fun is in the trying. Anyone jumping ship now is simply proving they don't have what it takes to be an EVE player, let alone a wartime Imperium member.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 06:59:54 -
[197] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:They just lost SMA, their relevant leadership has left. Glorious: http://i.imgur.com/cRkf9Pr.png The spin from our resident forum monkey should be interesting. What spin is needed? Every time anyone leaves SMA people keep throwing it about on reddit like it's the end of the alliance, and yet here we still are.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
160
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 07:04:23 -
[198] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:They just lost SMA, their relevant leadership has left. Glorious: http://i.imgur.com/cRkf9Pr.png The spin from our resident forum monkey should be interesting. What spin is needed? Every time anyone leaves SMA people keep throwing it about on reddit like it's the end of the alliance, and yet here we still are. Tosses the bait....catches the fish.
Almost instantly. Spin to go with it as well.
I think I can go a lighter line next cast. Landing them is simple. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 07:18:35 -
[199] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Tosses the bait....catches the fish. Almost instantly. Spin to go with it as well. I think I can go a lighter line next cast. Landing them is simple. Although, at this rate: http://puu.sh/oart3/3516009094.png all the fish will be gone soon. Sov in decline. Outposts in decline, corporations in decline. Rate of decline growing. Fail cascade on the cards. Do you not see the irony in you spinning then claiming I'm spinning? We certainly may not survive this but as of yet that's not the case. As it stands some popular names have gone and we've lost a big chunk of space. We've still got active leadership, we're still operating under SRP and have solid logistics. That's the verifiable truth with zero spin.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
160
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 07:24:17 -
[200] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Tosses the bait....catches the fish. Almost instantly. Spin to go with it as well. I think I can go a lighter line next cast. Landing them is simple. Although, at this rate: http://puu.sh/oart3/3516009094.png all the fish will be gone soon. Sov in decline. Outposts in decline, corporations in decline. Rate of decline growing. Fail cascade on the cards. Do you not see the irony in you spinning then claiming I'm spinning? We certainly may not survive this but as of yet that's not the case. As it stands some popular names have gone and we've lost a big chunk of space. We've still got active leadership, we're still operating under SRP and have solid logistics. That's the verifiable truth with zero spin. 2 for 2.
I think I just need a hand reel. |
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 07:28:02 -
[201] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:2 for 2.
I think I just need a hand reel. They sure don't make NPC alt sperglords like they used to.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Evasive Shadow Assassin
Evocationz Adhera YouTube Corporation
2118
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 07:33:14 -
[202] - Quote
It's happens before, its happening again
ASCN LV BOB RED ALLIANCE .5. CA (Original)
They all fell to onslaught from the masses
The good thing about eve is its predictability,
History repeats itself on here because alliance leaders always make the same mistakes
What do men with power crave?
More power
More power - leads to war
Humans do not learn from their mistakes
200+ Videos On Eve Online, Missions, Anomalys, PvP, Guides
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 07:43:46 -
[203] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: They sure don't make NPC alt sperglords like they used to. Very true.
But I do aspire to making my sperging to the next level. One day maybe.
Unfortunately until then, I'll have to be an amateur rather than a pro sperglord like yourself. Seems to be the one thing SMA are good at. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 08:35:52 -
[204] - Quote
It's no good, I just can't take any more of these searing blows. Biomassing now.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
318
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 09:12:06 -
[205] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's no good, I just can't take any more of these searing blows. Biomassing now.
Can I watch? and stuff, you know how it goes.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7449
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 09:20:42 -
[206] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's no good, I just can't take any more of these searing blows. Biomassing now. Can I watch? and stuff, you know how it goes. Lol, you wish you could have my stuff, you'd certainly not be crying about putting up a large citadel
If I were ever going I'd probably do something spectacular with it before I went.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
209
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 11:55:48 -
[207] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Proof enough that whatever time you were in SMA for was incredibly short and your exposure limited. MBC don't want the sov and even if they do want it they won't be able to keep it since fozziesov almost guarantees a loss for the defender in anything even resembling and even fight. And sure, maybe SMA won't survive, but the fun is in the trying. Anyone jumping ship now is simply proving they don't have what it takes to be an EVE player, let alone a wartime Imperium member.
Sure, whatever you say. The high-profile players who have left in the last 24 hours don't have what it takes to play EVE -- well- known players like Kyle and Ivory. /sarcasm
You know why they left, dude. Everyone knows why they all left. Trying to spin it as if they're the bad guys just makes you look really bad, yourself. In fact it looks downright trashy considering that all of them have gone out of their way to leave graciously and to not sell their former alliance out. You should have really stopped while you were ahead.
So anyway, I look forward to moving back to Fade on deployment. I already have one ship parked in O1Y! Maybe I'll run into you there, eh?
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Poopicus Butts
Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 12:46:41 -
[208] - Quote
The earlier posts in this thread just put the biggest smile on my face |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7450
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 12:47:16 -
[209] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Sure, whatever you say. The high-profile players who have left in the last 24 hours don't have what it takes to play EVE -- well- known players like Kyle and Ivory. /sarcasm
You know why they left, dude. Everyone knows why they all left. Trying to spin it as if they're the bad guys just makes you look really bad, yourself. In fact it looks downright trashy considering that all of them have gone out of their way to leave graciously and to not sell their former alliance out. You should have really stopped while you were ahead.
So anyway, I look forward to moving back to Fade on deployment. I already have one ship parked in O1Y! Maybe I'll run into you there, eh? Whatever way you swing it, if you are leaving an alliance because times get tough and you suffer some losses, you don't have what it takes to be an EVE player. I'm not trying to spin it as anything other than what it is, you're the one trying to pretend that because some leaders left that the entire rest of the alliance is screwed. It very well may be we won't survive this as an alliance, but that's nowhere close to a given and there are still plenty of people that will fight to the end.
And honestly, if and when we move back to fade, I don't expect you to still be there. Your alliance really is a renamed BNI, and if you weren't blue to groups like NC and TEST, they'd rip you to pieces in seconds. I fully expect to be fighting one of them, not steamrolling you.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Poopicus Butts
Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 12:53:49 -
[210] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: And honestly, if and when we move back to fade, I don't expect you to still be there. Your alliance really is a renamed BNI, and if you weren't blue to groups like NC and TEST, they'd rip you to pieces in seconds. I fully expect to be fighting one of them, not steamrolling you.
Are you honestly using the "I...if you weren't b...blue with that big alliance we'd crush y...you!" argument while being in the clusterfuck coalition? |
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
578
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 12:59:02 -
[211] - Quote
Did I miss the post where SMA relocated to Egypt? Cuz they all seem to be in da Nile
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13875
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:01:45 -
[212] - Quote
Jesus, you can almost taste the desperation. The further we advance (and not just militarily, I enjoyed my 1st northern "Mining/Ratting up indexes" op last night, I forgot how much guristas jamming sucks lol) they more delusional 'they' get (well, some of 'they', it seems the smarter "they's are abandoning ship already).
The 1st great war I fought in (when I was in Raiden and we helped destroy to original NC) 6-7 years ago wasn't NEARLY this damn fun. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:03:29 -
[213] - Quote
Poopicus Butts wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:And honestly, if and when we move back to fade, I don't expect you to still be there. Your alliance really is a renamed BNI, and if you weren't blue to groups like NC and TEST, they'd rip you to pieces in seconds. I fully expect to be fighting one of them, not steamrolling you. Are you honestly using the "I...if you weren't b...blue with that big alliance we'd crush y...you!" argument while being in the clusterfuck coalition? Nope, first off the clusterfuck coalition doesn't exist. Secondly, I'm just stating it as it is. It's a well advertised view that following this war MBC are going to stop being blue to each other, at which point they have to realistically be able to hold space against their attackers, which they've shown they would be unable to do.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13875
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:08:03 -
[214] - Quote
Poopicus Butts wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: And honestly, if and when we move back to fade, I don't expect you to still be there. Your alliance really is a renamed BNI, and if you weren't blue to groups like NC and TEST, they'd rip you to pieces in seconds. I fully expect to be fighting one of them, not steamrolling you.
Are you honestly using the "I...if you weren't b...blue with that big alliance we'd crush y...you!" argument while being in the clusterfuck coalition?
lol
I was on an op to coat hanger a CSAA night before last, and watched the intense and unbelievable spectacle of Imperium guys complaining about our blobbing in local.
Imperpium. The biggest blob in the history of EVE....
Complaining about blobbling.
From Imperium.....
......
Oddly, when I was in NC. and Goons (with hired PL help) forcibly ejected us from the exact same north that MBC is attacking now by using superior numbers, I fail to recall many CfC complaints about the dishonorable practice of blobbing.....
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
578
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:15:32 -
[215] - Quote
MBC would reform at the drop of a hat if CFC looked like moving back into the North.
We're not even blue to each other just following not shooting neuts whilst in CFC space (unless they aggress us first *cough* Spectre *cough*).
Also remember that CFC has pissed off pretty much all of these groups individually in their own way and we're not exactly suffering isk losses so even the IWI funding is irrelevant now (although it was definitely a necessary catalyst to get this started).
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Aineko Macx
355
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:15:37 -
[216] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's a well advertised view that following this war MBC are going to stop being blue to each other, at which point they have to realistically be able to hold space against their attackers, which they've shown they would be unable to do. A dynamic 0.0 certainly is better than the static and stagnant bloc the CFC is and the blocs before it were.
iveeCore: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:15:58 -
[217] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Did I miss the post where SMA relocated to Egypt? Cuz they all seem to be in da Nile You me because some of us don't conform the propaganda on reddit and don't actually consider SMA dead yet? Alliances can lose quite a lot and not collapse you know. TEST lost basically everything, died on it's ass and yet now is back. If believing SMA is strong enough to survive hard times is considered denial by randoms on the forum, I'm OK with that.
Jenn aSide wrote:I was on an op to coat hanger a CSAA night before last, and watched the intense and unbelievable spectacle of Imperium guys complaining about our blobbing in local.
Imperpium. The biggest blob in the history of EVE....
Complaining about blobbling.
From Imperium..... Aside from his post not actually being representative of what I actually posted, for some reason you don't see the irony in a bunch of people who have complained about blobbing and blue doughnuts for several years using those exact same tactics now CCP have shifted the mechanics in their favour too? Strange that. By strange I of course mean completely predictable.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
209
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:19:09 -
[218] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Poopicus Butts wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:And honestly, if and when we move back to fade, I don't expect you to still be there. Your alliance really is a renamed BNI, and if you weren't blue to groups like NC and TEST, they'd rip you to pieces in seconds. I fully expect to be fighting one of them, not steamrolling you. Are you honestly using the "I...if you weren't b...blue with that big alliance we'd crush y...you!" argument while being in the clusterfuck coalition? Nope, first off the clusterfuck coalition doesn't exist. Secondly, I'm just stating it as it is. It's a well advertised view that following this war MBC are going to stop being blue to each other, at which point they have to realistically be able to hold space against their attackers, which they've shown they would be unable to do.
You appear to be confused. I think you need to face up to what the point of this war is.
For most groups involved, it's not to capture and hold your sov. It's simply to burn you all out of your sov.
Who will take the space in the wake of the war? Not the remnants of SMA, that's for sure, because SMA of all alliances absolutely can't hold sov on their own -- not without Goon intervention. This has been amply demonstrated. 1000 people online; 50 of them turn out for fleets. That's not going to work out for you.
Who will take the space is anyone's guess. It will be interesting to watch.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
579
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:19:34 -
[219] - Quote
The 'propaganda' on reddit...is leaked logs from your own alliance chat. We don't even need to make gifs anymore.
e: For your edification:
http://pastebin.com/gj9RHP7u < Goons skymarshals discussing their linemembers. http://pastebin.com/cv88r5VL < SMA alliance chat discussing the loss of leadership.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:23:25 -
[220] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's a well advertised view that following this war MBC are going to stop being blue to each other, at which point they have to realistically be able to hold space against their attackers, which they've shown they would be unable to do. A dynamic 0.0 certainly is better than the static and stagnant bloc the CFC is and the blocs before it were. I agree, but the current mechanics won't generate that. The biggest groups will always be able to stomp through any smaller groups at will. Literally the only thing allowing smaller alliances to hold space is the lack of desire to stomp all over their space. I'd much rather see a system where lots of small groups held, used and defended space because they actually want to use it rather that a system that's simply so cumbersome to deal with that the only people attacking sov are people who don't want it.
Eli Apol wrote:MBC would reform at the drop of a hat if CFC looked like moving back into the North. I doubt that, but even if it were the case then that still makes you a coalition it just means you have an open PvP policy during peacetime.
Eli Apol wrote:Also remember that CFC has pissed off pretty much all of these groups individually in their own way and we're not exactly suffering isk losses so even the IWI funding is irrelevant now (although it was definitely a necessary catalyst to get this started). You're not suffering ISK losses? Someone let sKB know their killboard is broken.
Eli Apol wrote:I've heard talk that Burn Deklein might become an annual thing because it's so much fun. How can it become an annual thing if you're kicking goons out of Deklein?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4539
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:29:42 -
[221] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Imperpium blobbling this is the funniest damn thing to say out loud |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:34:34 -
[222] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Who will take the space in the wake of the war? Not the remnants of SMA, that's for sure, because SMA of all alliances absolutely can't hold sov on their own -- not without Goon intervention. We only can't hold (some of our) sov when a coalition larger than the Imperium is attacking it, so if you aren't blue to each other after the war and such a coalition no longer exists, why do you suddenly think we'd not be able to hold. Bear in mind that most of the timers we won early on against fleets outnumbering us 2:1 were done with very little coalition support.
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:This has been amply demonstrated. 1000 people online; 50 of them turn out for fleets. That's not going to work out for you. If those were really the figures, you'd be absolutely correct, but since they are actually a complete fabrication they don't actually mean anything.
Eli Apol wrote:The 'propaganda' on reddit...is leaked logs from your own alliance chat. We don't even need to make gifs anymore. e: For your edification: http://pastebin.com/gj9RHP7u < Goons skymarshals discussing their linemembers. http://pastebin.com/cv88r5VL < SMA alliance chat discussing the loss of leadership. The propaganda is the part where people assume the loss of the players and the existence of people sad about it to mean the alliance is dead. The issue is the false conclusions you're pulling from the chatlogs rather than their content. I'm not disputing that some leadership have left, neither am I disputing that some people are annoyed at it, I'm not even disputing that Imperium leadership have some issues with that too, but what I am disputing is any notion that them leaving means we're already dead.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1119
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:34:53 -
[223] - Quote
Poopicus Butts wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: And honestly, if and when we move back to fade, I don't expect you to still be there. Your alliance really is a renamed BNI, and if you weren't blue to groups like NC and TEST, they'd rip you to pieces in seconds. I fully expect to be fighting one of them, not steamrolling you.
Are you honestly using the "I...if you weren't b...blue with that big alliance we'd crush y...you!" argument while being in the clusterfuck coalition? From the "Nerf diplomacy lol" guy, no less.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have come full circle. Or is it 180 degrees? I am confused.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
582
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:36:10 -
[224] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You're not suffering ISK losses? Someone let sKB know their killboard is broken. I personally could have SRP'd all of Test alliances losses yesterday - and I'm really really not space rich - but sure, take me literally if you want.
TBH the amount of deadspace goodies on all the dead supers we killed would probably have cancelled out all our losses as well...so yeah isk positive just from PvP.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
210
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:41:38 -
[225] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:This has been amply demonstrated. 1000 people online; 50 of them turn out for fleets. That's not going to work out for you. If those were really the figures, you'd be absolutely correct, but since they are actually a complete fabrication they don't actually mean anything.
It was hyperbole, yes. But not far off. I remember sitting in P-2 while FCs spammed the chat channels in frustration trying to get numbers for fleets. I remember fleets being cancelled for lack of numbers.
Lucas, you are clearly very committed to SMA and for that, I commend you. That is sincere. I hope, for your sake and for others like you, that it survives and that you guys can rebuild into something stronger.
I wish you'd stop demonizing those who left, though. It doesn't reflect well on you.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:46:06 -
[226] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:I personally could have SRP'd all of Test alliances losses yesterday - and I'm really really not space rich - but sure, take me literally if you want. What were their losses yesterday? So far in April as far as killboards are concerned, TEST have lost more ISK than SMA.
Eli Apol wrote:TBH the amount of deadspace goodies on all the dead supers we killed would probably have cancelled out all our losses as well...so yeah isk positive just from PvP. Yeah us too. We also can't provide anything remotely backing this up, but it's still about as true.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:51:22 -
[227] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:It was hyperbole, yes. But not far off. I remember sitting in P-2 while FCs spammed the chat channels in frustration trying to get numbers for fleets. I remember fleets being cancelled for lack of numbers.
Lucas, you are clearly very committed to SMA and for that, I commend you. That is sincere. I hope, for your sake and for others like you, that it survives and that you guys can rebuild into something stronger.
I wish you'd stop demonizing those who left, though. It doesn't reflect well on you. Yep, fleets aren't always possible, depending on a number of factors - time, location, fleet composition, enemy fleet size, to name a few.
Thanks, I hope we do too.
I don't demonize them and I wish them all the best, but that won't change my opinion that if you are leaving when a war turns and you suffer losses, that's very much a non-EVE player thing. That's not just leadership, that's literally any player. If you quit because the going gets tough then you really don't get EVE.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
583
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 14:05:27 -
[228] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:What were their losses yesterday? So far in April as far as killboards are concerned, TEST have lost more ISK than SMA.
Around 10-15b for the one day afaik, closer to 10b. Easily affordable for any long term eve player let alone an alliance wallet. It's pretty much a certainty that we really don't need the IWI income anymore.
The reason we've lost more than SMA this month is probably because we've been undocking and fighting ~ also we have nearly double the number of members of SMA now.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 14:17:26 -
[229] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Around 10-15b for the one day afaik, closer to 10b. Easily affordable for any long term eve player let alone an alliance wallet. It's pretty much a certainty that we really don't need the IWI income anymore.
The reason we've lost more than SMA this month is probably because we've been undocking and fighting ~ also we have nearly double the number of members of SMA now. You're right, we've totally not been undocking at all... We've totally been losing our ships inside stations which is why our losses aren't zero.
You say it's a certainty that you don't need IWI income, but then you claim that your losses are low because you're fighting unopposed. That leads me to believe you think that for the remainder of this war you will fight unopposed. Good luck with that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
583
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 14:20:27 -
[230] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Around 10-15b for the one day afaik, closer to 10b. Easily affordable for any long term eve player let alone an alliance wallet. It's pretty much a certainty that we really don't need the IWI income anymore.
The reason we've lost more than SMA this month is probably because we've been undocking and fighting ~ also we have nearly double the number of members of SMA now. You're right, we've totally not been undocking at all... We've totally been losing our ships inside stations which is why our losses aren't zero. You say it's a certainty that you don't need IWI income, but then you claim that your losses are low because you're fighting unopposed. That leads me to believe you think that for the remainder of this war you will fight unopposed. Good luck with that.
http://i.imgur.com/G2D8dsh.png
Can't wait for April's figures.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 14:38:39 -
[231] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:http://i.imgur.com/G2D8dsh.png
Can't wait for April's figures. Not really sure where those figures are from. I mean let's for simplicity just take the highball figure of 40b from Tribute as caused by Imperium and pretend all Imperium damage bars are the same height so I'm massively overstating the Imperium damage done for a moment. So across 10 regions their massively inflated march damage would be 400b. The coalition against the Imperium is pretty much "the rest of EVE". So since zkillboard shows most kills and things that on an alliance level Goonswarm alone did 3.36t damage in march, where and against whom did Goonswarm do the other 2.96t of damage? I imagine that these stats aren't so much March figures as "part of March" figures, and they were likely sourced by someone within MBC. Though if it's accurate it amuses me that I personally made more than we lost in fade in March.
TBH though, I won't even dispute the idea that we've lost more than we've killed, it would surprise me at this point if that weren't the case, but I find it funny that you think nothing will change or that it means anything in itself. MoA have spent the past 2 years chirping on about how isk positive they are too.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Aineko Macx
356
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 14:40:47 -
[232] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:A dynamic 0.0 certainly is better than the static and stagnant bloc the CFC is and the blocs before it were. I agree, but the current mechanics won't generate that. RIGHT NOW the mechanics are doing just that, providing a dynamic 0.0 with lot's of action, taking space from entities unable to hold it, breaking apart moribund blocs. Eve is still a n+1 game, but I'll reserve judgement over the current mechanics to when the dust settles, say 6 months from now
iveeCore: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
583
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 14:48:25 -
[233] - Quote
Those figures were from CCP's data dump: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6428000
Lots of redditors have made a variety of graphs in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4dty65/ccp_quant_releases_treasure_trove_of_kill_data/
Some of the others I particularly liked:
http://i.imgur.com/dgxGSod http://imgur.com/xfJdqLW
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 15:00:47 -
[234] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:RIGHT NOW the mechanics are doing just that, providing a dynamic 0.0 with lot's of action, taking space from entities unable to hold it, breaking apart moribund blocs. Eve is still a n+1 game, but I'll reserve judgement over the current mechanics to when the dust settles, say 6 months from now What game are you playing? RIGHT NOW the mechanics are pitting one giant coalition against another giant coalition in exactly the same way that wars have ever gone down. Following this there will still be big groups who get to decide who they let have sov, just now it takes less time and less commitment to boot someone out of their space.
OK, so the graph you posted, what breakdown of those figures are being used and what grouping? Because if that's supposed to be the whole of march, then zkillboard is completely wrong (or more likely the graph is wrong as I believe the Imperium lost significantly more than 400b in March).
Ed: To be honest a lot of those graphs look off so maybe it's the figures. How accurate are the isk estimations in that data?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
583
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 15:11:16 -
[235] - Quote
It's CCP's own data dump. I'd guess pretty accurate.
No idea on the groupings people are using, I just picked the ones that I felt illustrated interesting things - feel free to make your own graphs from it, I'm sure that's why CCP published the data.
I haven't started breaking it down in my own spreadsheets yet, I want to do cumulative losses of MBC vs CFC over time - although from what I've read there's an issue with splitting the CO2 data correctly for that.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
14
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 15:21:35 -
[236] - Quote
Look at me I'm Mittlukasler:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
707
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 15:25:23 -
[237] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:RIGHT NOW the mechanics are doing just that, providing a dynamic 0.0 with lot's of action, taking space from entities unable to hold it, breaking apart moribund blocs. Eve is still a n+1 game, but I'll reserve judgement over the current mechanics to when the dust settles, say 6 months from now What game are you playing? RIGHT NOW the mechanics are pitting one giant coalition against another giant coalition in exactly the same way that wars have ever gone down. Following this there will still be big groups who get to decide who they let have sov, just now it takes less time and less commitment to boot someone out of their space. OK, so the graph you posted, what breakdown of those figures are being used and what grouping? Because if that's supposed to be the whole of march, then zkillboard is completely wrong (or more likely the graph is wrong as I believe the Imperium lost significantly more than 400b in March). Ed: To be honest a lot of those graphs look off so maybe it's the figures. How accurate are the isk estimations in that data?
:CCP:
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Aineko Macx
357
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 16:02:59 -
[238] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:RIGHT NOW the mechanics are doing just that, providing a dynamic 0.0 with lot's of action, taking space from entities unable to hold it, breaking apart moribund blocs. Eve is still a n+1 game, but I'll reserve judgement over the current mechanics to when the dust settles, say 6 months from now What game are you playing? RIGHT NOW the mechanics are pitting one giant coalition against another giant coalition in exactly the same way that wars have ever gone down. Following this there will still be big groups who get to decide who they let have sov, just now it takes less time and less commitment to boot someone out of their space. Your coalition is an anachronistic relic of game mechanics that do not exist anymore, and you are slowly realizing it. The new sov mechanics together with jump changes means that having lots of allies distributed over large swathes of space is pointless because they won't be able to help you hold your space. N3 realized this, that's why they reset and sold off their renting empire. CFC continued to exist until now simply because no one really put pressure on them after the changes.
The coalition that is dismantling yours formed for that specific purpose. As you mentioned yourself, MBC entities won't remain blue after the war. The spoils of war will of course be divided among the winners, but there won't be another super-bloc afterwards. That prospect looks pretty good to me.
iveeCore: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 16:17:06 -
[239] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Your coalition is an anachronistic relic of game mechanics that do not exist anymore, and you are slowly realizing it. The new sov mechanics together with jump changes means that having lots of allies distributed over large swathes of space is pointless because they won't be able to help you hold your space. N3 realized this, that's why they reset and sold off their renting empire. CFC continued to exist until now simply because no one really put pressure on them after the changes. Well no, it's simply that when you aren't at war you can protect more space that when you are. With the new mechanics there's no commitment needed to assault each area so players are able to assault huge amounts of space in one go, meaning that when at war a defender needs to shrink. Once the war is over they can grow back out again. Sov is a lot more fluid now, and yes there's certainly a learning process for just how fluid it is, but we'll find the balance.
What N3 realised is they were incapable of defending their renters and had no interest in integrating them. The fact that renting still exists and rusblock are spread to 13 players per system shows that the concept is not gone.
Aineko Macx wrote:The coalition that is dismantling yours formed for that specific purpose. As you mentioned yourself, MBC entities won't remain blue after the war. The spoils of war will of course be divided among the winners, but there won't be another super-bloc afterwards. That prospect looks pretty good to me. You're completely insane if you think no super-bloc will exist afterwards. For starters, even if we do lose the war (which is in no way already decided like some of you seem to believe) the Imperium won't be gone. Even if we end up entirely in lowsec for a bit, the bulk of the Imperium will remain and will push back out eventually, so either BoB will have to remain a loose coalition anyway or the Imperium will reclaim their space. Outside of that there's already other super-blocs and have been others in the past so I'm not really sure why you think that basic human behaviour will change.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Aineko Macx
358
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 16:41:29 -
[240] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You're completely insane if you think no super-bloc will exist afterwards. For starters, even if we do lose the war (which is in no way already decided like some of you seem to believe) the Imperium won't be gone. Even if we end up entirely in lowsec for a bit, the bulk of the Imperium will remain and will push back out eventually, so either BoB will have to remain a loose coalition anyway or the Imperium will reclaim their space. Outside of that there's already other super-blocs and have been others in the past so I'm not really sure why you think that basic human behaviour will change. You misunderstood. Even if CFC (or what is left of it) win the war, they will never hold as much space again as they did at their peak.
If the CFC lose the war and move to low sec, the CFC also dies, because goons weaker, dependent buffer alliances will crumble without holding space to rat in. In the end probably only Goons and RZR survive to restart anew.
I agree that ad hoc coalitions might continue to form for aggression purposes, but the large static, defensive blocs like the old NC or CFC are a thing of the past because they are ineffective under the new mechanics.
iveeCore: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 16:51:42 -
[241] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:You misunderstood. Even if CFC (or what is left of it) win the war, they will never hold as much space again as they did at their peak. We never would have anyway, since we already downsized for fozziesov. Take 5 minutes of your life to stop reading reddit propaganda and look these things up for yourself and you'll see what already threw away loads of space to compact down our borders. I imagine if we win the war, our characters:system ratio will return to roughly what it was pre-war, we'll just have a better idea of what space will be scrapped in the event of a large scale war.
Aineko Macx wrote:If the CFC lose the war and move to low sec, the CFC also dies, because goons weaker, dependent buffer alliances will crumble without holding space to rat in. In the end probably only Goons and RZR survive to restart anew. You overestimate how much those "dependent" alliances depend on the Imperium, and how important ratting is to be honest. Personally I don't rat so I'm now making more since we've been at war as I build and trade a lot of the goods both sides are using. Amusingly it seems that 1ronbank may have just made one of my alt corps stinkin rich for when I get home as well.
Aineko Macx wrote:I agree that ad hoc coalitions might continue to form for aggression purposes, but the large static, defensive blocs like the old NC or CFC are a thing of the past because they are ineffective under the new mechanics. Except they're not, just their methods of defense are different. If anything it's now more important to have more players for defense, as you have to keep ADMs up as well as fight the front lines. This is why I'm convinced you are playing a completely different game. Smaller alliances are dead the moment a larger alliance or coalition chooses to kill them. Their continued existence is at the whim of the larger alliances around them.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Digits Kho
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:02:26 -
[242] - Quote
Cos a bunch of low sec space barbarians and homeless space mercs, backed by some sort of generous space magnat, will SURELY destroy de gewn and chase dem gewns outa their space. Surely, right? |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
586
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:07:19 -
[243] - Quote
Digits Kho wrote:Cos a bunch of low sec space barbarians and homeless space mercs, backed by some sort of generous space magnat, will SURELY destroy de gewn and chase dem gewns outa their space. Surely, right? You're a few weeks out of date...Goons HAVE been chased out of their space. The homeless ones living out of lowsec are now SMA/RZR/TNT/INIT/LAWN...
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1073
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:17:40 -
[244] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:You misunderstood. Even if CFC (or what is left of it) win the war, they will never hold as much space again as they did at their peak. We never would have anyway, since we already downsized for fozziesov. Take 5 minutes of your life to stop reading reddit propaganda and look these things up for yourself and you'll see what already threw away loads of space to compact down our borders. I imagine if we win the war, our characters:system ratio will return to roughly what it was pre-war, we'll just have a better idea of what space will be scrapped in the event of a large scale war. Aineko Macx wrote:If the CFC lose the war and move to low sec, the CFC also dies, because goons weaker, dependent buffer alliances will crumble without holding space to rat in. In the end probably only Goons and RZR survive to restart anew. You overestimate how much those "dependent" alliances depend on the Imperium, and how important ratting is to be honest. Personally I don't rat so I'm now making more since we've been at war as I build and trade a lot of the goods both sides are using. Amusingly it seems that 1ronbank may have just made one of my alt corps stinkin rich for when I get home as well. Aineko Macx wrote:I agree that ad hoc coalitions might continue to form for aggression purposes, but the large static, defensive blocs like the old NC or CFC are a thing of the past because they are ineffective under the new mechanics. Except they're not, just their methods of defense are different. If anything it's now more important to have more players for defense, as you have to keep ADMs up as well as fight the front lines. This is why I'm convinced you are playing a completely different game. Smaller alliances are dead the moment a larger alliance or coalition chooses to kill them. Their continued existence is at the whim of the larger alliances around them.
Pretty ironic speech coming from a CFC pilot. Back in the day, the CFC pretty much rolled over anybody they didn't like.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Aineko Macx
358
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:28:35 -
[245] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You overestimate how much those "dependent" alliances depend on the Imperium, and how important ratting is to be honest. A reality check is in order.
Quote:Aineko Macx wrote:I agree that ad hoc coalitions might continue to form for aggression purposes, but the large static, defensive blocs like the old NC or CFC are a thing of the past because they are ineffective under the new mechanics. Except they're not, just their methods of defense are different. If anything it's now more important to have more players for defense, as you have to keep ADMs up as well as fight the front lines. It only becomes easier to defend if you have more people concentrated in the same space. This goes contrary to the entities desire to hold more space for more profit. How would you explain the lack of support from most of your allies in the defense of your region?
Quote:Smaller alliances are dead the moment a larger alliance or coalition chooses to kill them. You mean evict. An alliance dies when it's members leave.
Quote:Their continued existence is at the whim of the larger alliances around them. You're describing SMAs relationship with the CFC.
Even if smaller entities can't hold sov for long the fact that sov is more fluid now is very positive and will provide heaps of content.
iveeCore: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7452
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:41:19 -
[246] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Pretty ironic speech coming from a CFC pilot. Back in the day, the CFC pretty much rolled over anybody they didn't like. Not really seeing the irony. What I'm saying is that either we will continue rolling over anyone, or the new superpower will.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
170
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:41:49 -
[247] - Quote
Just to throw more wood on the fire, the CCP data dump of isk lost does not inclued POS losses, or the passive income from those POS.
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
586
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:43:26 -
[248] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Just to throw more wood on the fire, the CCP data dump of isk lost does not inclued POS losses, or the passive income from those POS. no baby titans?
Are ihubs (and upgrades) on there?
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
171
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:47:47 -
[249] - Quote
its only ships lost in space...and i think pods, but not 100% sure
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7452
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:48:07 -
[250] - Quote
But you weren't talking about dependent on them to survive an assault from a large coalition, you were talking about general dependence. Outside of wartime or against alliances in our weight range we have very little reliance on the rest of the Imperium.
Aineko Macx wrote:It only becomes easier to defend if you have more people concentrated in the same space. This goes contrary to the entities desire to hold more space for more profit. Except it doesn't, it simply means you need more people too. No matter how few systems you cram your people into, a bigger, stronger alliance will steamroll you.
Aineko Macx wrote:How would you explain the lack of support from most of your allies in the defense of your region? Like I say, the amount of space able to be defended from light attacks at peace is higher than the amount while at full war. We can't actively defend that much space hit in that many places all at once, so compacting down while at war is a necessity. After the war expansion can continue.
Aineko Macx wrote:You mean evict. An alliance dies when it's members leave. Sure.
Aineko Macx wrote:You're describing SMAs relationship with the CFC.
Even if smaller entities can't hold sov for long the fact that sov is more fluid now is very positive and will provide heaps of content. Indeed I am. We've just chosen the route of being an active participant in our defense as a group and get the rewards of the same unlike a small unaffiliated alliance who gain no benefits from the larger group yet can still be crushed at any moment the larger group chooses.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
|
Mario Putzo
1575
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:49:56 -
[251] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:Pretty ironic speech coming from a CFC pilot. Back in the day, the CFC pretty much rolled over anybody they didn't like. Not really seeing the irony. What I'm saying is that either we will continue rolling over anyone, or the new superpower will.
We are far removed from the days of a new super power. You don't honestly think guys like NC. or PL are going to remain part of a 50K sea of "soft" blues do you? Or the ~10K pilots made up by the 5 Low Sec groups forming Voltron? Horde won't be part of a new super power, they pick fights for PL to escalate too, same with Waffles.
TEST might make a home in the North perhaps with TRI being a neighbor and Blue, but the majority of these groups already have homes, or don't partake in NullSec.
Fact is MBC is an impossibility for long term "dominance".
CFC is the only fat group in the game that tries to be like old BoB and demand homage from smaller entities, the Russians are split like Bosheviks and Mensheviks, keeping each other in check...as they always have.
Certainly another group will become dominant at some point, but that is a turn around many wars away yet. After the CFC there is not a single entity with the allies or organizational structure to do it. Its going to take a couple years for any group to become the steamroller.
Then again, CFC was pretty much a paper tiger....really good at running over smaller alliances in their space...fractures into a glorious pile of leaks and malcontent the first time people start shitting on their door step...maybe the CFC wasn't as omnipotent as we all thought after all.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7453
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:07:43 -
[252] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:We are far removed from the days of a new super power. You don't honestly think guys like NC. or PL are going to remain part of a 50K sea of "soft" blues do you? Or the ~10K pilots made up by the 5 Low Sec groups forming Voltron? Horde won't be part of a new super power, they pick fights for PL to escalate too, same with Waffles. I don't expect them to stay together, but I fully expect several limited engagement pacts to be made between them (the old gudfites deals), and standout groups like PL/PH to be 10-15k players (and they are pretty much there). I don't know why you think PH would suddenly not be blue with PL, and I certainly can't see many of these groups ever going to all out war against each other.
Mario Putzo wrote:Certainly another group will become dominant at some point, but that is a turn around many wars away yet. After the CFC there is not a single entity with the allies or organizational structure to do it. Its going to take a couple years for any group to become the steamroller. If there isn't another on then it will be the Imperium. This is what you don't seem to get. Even if Imperium lose the war (and we are a long way from that) the coalition will only be relocated, not destroyed, so the moment the BoB coalition breaks up they'll get attacked and be forced to reform.
See the problem is you seem to think that what has been accomplished so far is it, now you just need to go ping some timers and the Imperium is dead and you can all dance around in circles. It's just not that simple. I doubt you even have the longevity to see it through to the end.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
586
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:12:57 -
[253] - Quote
Not going to war and being blue are very different things.
Can you imagine if CFC alliances had just had NIP's with each other instead of having their safe ratting space? It's a completely alien concept for you.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1726
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:17:25 -
[254] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:Pretty ironic speech coming from a CFC pilot. Back in the day, the CFC pretty much rolled over anybody they didn't like. Not really seeing the irony. What I'm saying is that either we will continue rolling over anyone, or the new superpower will. We are far removed from the days of a new super power. You don't honestly think guys like NC. or PL are going to remain part of a 50K sea of "soft" blues do you? Or the ~10K pilots made up by the 5 Low Sec groups forming Voltron? Horde won't be part of a new super power, they pick fights for PL to escalate too, same with Waffles.
Usually every revolution on the Earth finishes this way: old 'democrats' taken over power forget their principles... People say: after killing the dragon you become new dragon.
Let's just wait and see. But in EveO we usually see peoples in nature....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11567
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:19:31 -
[255] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Then again, CFC was pretty much a paper tiger....really good at running over smaller alliances in their space...fractures into a glorious pile of leaks and malcontent the first time people start shitting on their door step...maybe the CFC wasn't as omnipotent as we all thought after all.
I don't know about the Imperium but the CFC would've trounced these fools weeks ago
Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
-á-á - Abrazzar
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
586
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:22:24 -
[256] - Quote
Fair point. The cfc will be remembered as powerful, the imperium will be remembered for failed invasions of provi and lowsec and then the fastest collapse in history.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7453
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:23:05 -
[257] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Not going to war and being blue are very different things.
Can you imagine if CFC alliances had just had NIP's with each other instead of having their safe ratting space? It's a completely alien concept for you. Except that's what we had with non-Imperium alliances and that's where all the complaints of the blue doughnut came from. When people said "blue doughnut" they didn't just mean "Imperium".
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mario Putzo
1576
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:34:31 -
[258] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:We are far removed from the days of a new super power. You don't honestly think guys like NC. or PL are going to remain part of a 50K sea of "soft" blues do you? Or the ~10K pilots made up by the 5 Low Sec groups forming Voltron? Horde won't be part of a new super power, they pick fights for PL to escalate too, same with Waffles. I don't expect them to stay together, but I fully expect several limited engagement pacts to be made between them (the old gudfites deals), and standout groups like PL/PH to be 10-15k players (and they are pretty much there). I don't know why you think PH would suddenly not be blue with PL, and I certainly can't see many of these groups ever going to all out war against each other. See the problem is you seem to think that what has been accomplished so far is it, now you just need to go ping some timers and the Imperium is dead and you can all dance around in circles. It's just not that simple. I doubt you even have the longevity to see it through to the end.
Whats wrong with having good fight deals? It literally has been successful in every location in the game that it is in effect. Russians have played that way since day 1, fight each other, but band together if someone tries to **** on us. What is wrong with that. Just because you might help your neighbor in a war, doesn't mean you can't fight them during "peace" time.
CFC lost this and being essentially cut out of the content (partly by their own policy, and rest of EVE essentially ignoring them) they have become fat, and incapable of filling fleets. GSF can only get 1% of its playerbase into a coalition Fleet? FCON and CO2 were both hovering around 10%. I assume Razor is at 100% contribution for their WH fleet since no one has seen them in 2 months...or TNT and EXE who combined can get 50 dudes.
I mean look at your own Alliance, when Content Ring was a thing, you guys were putting decent fleets out on your own, building members and numbers because there was **** to do, people to fight...you know the fun stuff people like to do. When CFC came to "help" and cleared out content ring, SMA started going sideways, and it became a game of make them break for ruining content ring...and of course the IWI thing on the back of that.
In regards to "seeing it through" it is through. The CFC is dead, now its all about fraggin Goons. You think that MBC cares what or where SMA goes, or FCON, its not about you guys, its called World War Bee for a reason. Mittens and Sion put a target on their backs, and now that their meatshields are scattered and beat up thats it. Ive watched 4 Space Empires die, your story is no different, your empire is dead...some groups might come out of it, but they won't be the same, and the coalition will never be the same. Its done. Beaten down. Over. Even if MBC left right now, for whatever reason. CFC will never be what it was before. |
Aineko Macx
360
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:35:28 -
[259] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Certainly another group will become dominant at some point, but that is a turn around many wars away yet. After the CFC there is not a single entity with the allies or organizational structure to do it. Its going to take a couple years for any group to become the steamroller. If there isn't another on then it will be the Imperium. This is what you don't seem to get. Even if Imperium lose the war (and we are a long way from that) the coalition will only be relocated, not destroyed, so the moment the BoB coalition breaks up they'll get attacked and be forced to reform. What makes you think the CFC is different from the old NC that would allow it to survive a sovless period? I know CFC members don't like the comparison, but the differences aren't huge. And don't forget that back then building and keeping a large bloc was easier than it is today.
iveeCore: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
|
Aineko Macx
360
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:41:45 -
[260] - Quote
Andski wrote:I don't know about the Imperium but the CFC would've trounced these fools weeks ago Since the coalition was exactly the same before and after the rebrand, are you saying the new name is a bad one?
iveeCore: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
|
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11568
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:44:50 -
[261] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Andski wrote:I don't know about the Imperium but the CFC would've trounced these fools weeks ago Since the coalition was exactly the same before and after the rebrand, are you saying the new name is a bad one?
It wasn't just the name that changed.
Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
-á-á - Abrazzar
|
Aineko Macx
360
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 18:57:34 -
[262] - Quote
Andski wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:Andski wrote:I don't know about the Imperium but the CFC would've trounced these fools weeks ago Since the coalition was exactly the same before and after the rebrand, are you saying the new name is a bad one? It wasn't just the name that changed. Alright, you shifted some of the vassal alliances around, that's totally different.
iveeCore: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
|
Mario Putzo
1578
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 19:04:48 -
[263] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Andski wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:Andski wrote:I don't know about the Imperium but the CFC would've trounced these fools weeks ago Since the coalition was exactly the same before and after the rebrand, are you saying the new name is a bad one? It wasn't just the name that changed. Alright, you shifted some of the vassal alliances around, that's totally different.
Nah he talking culturally. There was a change from CFC to Imperium because the latter is more marketable. It stopped being about the game and about Mittani's multi-dollar media empire. That is why Endie and Bat Country left, and Suas and BOS left, its why Blwarf left (among other reasons), its why Vily left.
The internal culture of Goons and CFC changed, and is largely responsible for why their empire is falling faster than a house of cards on a windy day. No one gives a **** about fighting for Mittani Media. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1073
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 19:19:16 -
[264] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:Pretty ironic speech coming from a CFC pilot. Back in the day, the CFC pretty much rolled over anybody they didn't like. Not really seeing the irony. What I'm saying is that either we will continue rolling over anyone, or the new superpower will.
What new super power?
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Digits Kho
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 21:37:52 -
[265] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Russians have played that way since day 1, fight each other, but band together if someone tries to **** on us. Ye, red alliance and xxdeathxx were certainly helping Solar during their ~1 year droneland defence war vs the N3+co. blueball.
oh wait |
Mario Putzo
1579
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 22:44:10 -
[266] - Quote
Digits Kho wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: Russians have played that way since day 1, fight each other, but band together if someone tries to **** on us. Ye, red alliance and xxdeathxx were certainly helping Solar during their ~1 year droneland defence war vs the N3+co. blueball. oh wait Death and Red had no capacity to assist Solar though. They were homeless at the time of N3 purging and both only got back on the Sov map because N3 let them back in. Solar and Death haven't really gotten along since the old glory days of Red Alliance when Mactep and Death were part of RA, before the schism. Have to remember it was Solar who took Deaths space after the DRF North War. (also it was hardly a 1 year war, it lasted maybe a month, Solar couldn't do anything against the WreckingBall)
Solar traditionally is more friendly with the southern alliances (SoCo folks like AAA, ROL) while Death traditionally gets along better with Stain Wagon alliances in the south. Typically if Solar is strong, SoCo is probably strong, if Death is strong, StainWagon is probably strong.
Russians are weird like that, and I don't know what made them split like they did, but since it happened its been kind of an internal forever war between the groups. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1442
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 23:55:29 -
[267] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:Pretty ironic speech coming from a CFC pilot. Back in the day, the CFC pretty much rolled over anybody they didn't like. Not really seeing the irony. What I'm saying is that either we will continue rolling over anyone, or the new superpower will. What new super power?
The one that will inevitably fill whatever universe sized hole the Imperium will leave behind if it were somehow defeated.
In reality, even if we lose our space on the short term, in the long term you'll see us pop up again somewhere else. Once the MBC money well runs dry, the war hype is over, fleet numbers dwindle and things go back to normal, that's when we start retaking what we lost.
But it won't even get to that, because all of those things will happen long before the last patch of yellow is gone from the map.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Mario Putzo
1579
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 00:44:53 -
[268] - Quote
Dang CFC undocks in something other than Sword Fleet for first time in a week and lose 40B in X-7 to Super Bait. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1074
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 00:46:26 -
[269] - Quote
I didn't make it in time to whore on the kills.
The CFC has struck a major blow against everybody who didn't get there in time to destroy their dreads.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Mario Putzo
1579
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 00:48:51 -
[270] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:I didn't make it in time to whore on the kills.
The CFC has struck a major blow against everybody who didn't get there in time to destroy their dreads.
CFC always wins. |
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7430
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 01:05:11 -
[271] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Dang CFC undocks in something other than Sword Fleet for first time in a week and lose 40B in X-7 to Super Bait.
Rumor has it that CCP is going to be delivering a huge buff to CFC.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Mario Putzo
1579
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 01:25:32 -
[272] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Dang CFC undocks in something other than Sword Fleet for first time in a week and lose 40B in X-7 to Super Bait. Rumor has it that CCP is going to be delivering a huge buff to CFC.
I don't think it works on Titans still in CSAA. |
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1719
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 02:07:03 -
[273] - Quote
(11:10:54 AM) tiberizzle: we just need to disband |
Mario Putzo
1623
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 05:15:16 -
[274] - Quote
DOKDO,
As nearly all of you have heard by now, I am the Director/Skyteam-level spy. Many people are messaging me and mailing me about the "why", so here it is:
First of all. I have been a spy for a long long time. It goes way back to when Rudazara was FCing for Black Legion and we were fighting in the south. However, my intention was to create content for the coalition by contacting the enemies and setting up fights. This is petty and all of the Imperium FCs do it with frenemies. I did this with Black Legion because I wanted to fight. I did this with Legion of Death in Geminate as well when we were in Bastion and I have done it with every ******* alliance we have fought since then. This again is petty spying and giving up positions/fleet comps only allows the enemy (if he is honorable) to bring a fightable fleet. IF they came with a counter, I just ran. Easy as that. This is why everyone loved Rembafreet, becuase I got us fights and fun, but you can thank enemy spy FCs.
Then came the Cloud Ring war. We were sent into Cloud Ring over and over and over again. We were pounding space for no ******* reason over and over again. I really thought that the war in CR would make a difference and that the Viceroy **** was real, so I put my whole effort into FCing as much as I could. I was writing TMC articles left and right... drinking the coolaid. Things changed.. The Mittani, DBRB and the other illum nerds were on a ******* boat eating seafood while I was ignoring my real life, my family and kids fighting his ******* war. I had become the worst father and family man because of a stupid game and the Illum continued to push the war. I was working hard for his cause and they left to go on a ******* Yacht trip.
The Illum's idea of how to play this game does not benefit the players who want to actually fight. Instead of real fights, they want to meta the **** out of every aspect of this game to win their version of a victory.
The deception was not about money. I had access to upwards of 25B ISK from the SRP wallet, mounds of ISK in assets from miniluv, access to three to four titans (not including momo's) and nearly 50B ISK from DOKDO. All of this could have been mine if I was a real traitor. In fact many days I wanted to take it all, but other than my change in view of the Imperium, I was still ~loyal~ to DOKDO's cause and never had the heart to steal.
Luckily, as I knew the Illum would be hunting me out as I began the leaks, I took logs and all kinds of other things with me. I knew I was going to be caught, but the fall of the Imperium is too goddamn funny to pass up and I kept leaking. I wanted to show the world what the GSF directorate really thinks about their allies. They literally plan to allow everyone to fall for their cause and yes it will all be on reddit very soon.
My biggest problem is that I couldn't tell anyone or ask for advice on my problematic situation. I was in between a rock and hard place. I couldn't truly betray the CFC without betraying you all as well. I have met many of you in real life and I hope that you dont think worse of me as a person.
To Twee, don't forget what you have become and who put you there. You are in the position you are now because of my idea to unite all of the Koreans. While this is a really ****** way to go out and I am the traitor, don't forget where you came from. You were a Bastion line member and now look, you're a director of GSF, the once greatest alliance in the game, but now a bleeding mule.
When you sit in the seat above the clouds and you can't see the city below, there are no people nor cars nor critters to enjoy. I am coming back to earth.
I will not reveal where I am going; however, when I get there, I suggest all of you move with me. I sent you the mail days ago telling you to move and its for a reason. You are going to lose, the Imperium will fall, and you will be stuck with all of your **** in space you don't own. The Imperium is falling apart and corps/members are dropping daily. I am sorry for all of this, but it must be done to save the game.
Long live DOKDO.
Lemba
Its happening! |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
595
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 05:26:06 -
[275] - Quote
/me prepares some towels for the guys climbing out from da Nile
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7465
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 09:45:59 -
[276] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:/me prepares some towels for the guys climbing out from da Nile Totally not heard that joke before, I swear.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4451
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 17:29:51 -
[277] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:Pretty ironic speech coming from a CFC pilot. Back in the day, the CFC pretty much rolled over anybody they didn't like. Not really seeing the irony. What I'm saying is that either we will continue rolling over anyone, or the new superpower will. We are far removed from the days of a new super power. You don't honestly think guys like NC. or PL are going to remain part of a 50K sea of "soft" blues do you? Or the ~10K pilots made up by the 5 Low Sec groups forming Voltron? Horde won't be part of a new super power, they pick fights for PL to escalate too, same with Waffles. Usually every revolution on the Earth finishes this way: old 'democrats' taken over power forget their principles... People say: after killing the dragon you become new dragon. Let's just wait and see. But in EveO we usually see peoples in nature.... "Meet the new boss Same as the old boss"
Portrait inspired by my cocktiel Cockatiel.
|
Mario Putzo
1624
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 17:22:17 -
[278] - Quote
Lucas Kell, With SMA announcing they are no longer going to be a member of Imperium, how does that make you feel? |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2340
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 17:30:42 -
[279] - Quote
Looks like Goons finally got their buff from CCP.
With AoE damage from exploding Titans we can expect the bright future for them all.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
|
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1719
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 17:34:35 -
[280] - Quote
fook fook |
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
956
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 17:58:58 -
[281] - Quote
So, you have trouble in real life and have lost control over your gaming habits. Seriously man, having fleets and fleet commanders around is cool and all, but if you need a break, just take one.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
212
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 18:19:45 -
[282] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell, With SMA announcing they are no longer going to be a member of Imperium, and moving to NPC Null Sec to "rebuild" the alliance, how does that make you feel?
Not just NPC null but Outer Ring, far away from anywhere. River mentioned running SoE missions out there, but there are no SoE agents there at all -- just ORE, offering only mining missions, and there are only two level 4 agents in the entire region.
It's going to be extremely rough rebuilding under those circumstances. I'm not sure how they're going to do it.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Mario Putzo
1625
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 18:37:54 -
[283] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell, With SMA announcing they are no longer going to be a member of Imperium, and moving to NPC Null Sec to "rebuild" the alliance, how does that make you feel? Not just NPC null but Outer Ring, far away from anywhere. River mentioned running SoE missions out there, but there are no SoE agents there at all -- just ORE, offering only mining missions, and there are only two level 4 agents in the entire region. It's going to be extremely rough rebuilding under those circumstances. I'm not sure how they're going to do it.
Almost seems like they trying to split the alliance, half will go to Outer Ring to "rebuild" Other half will pull a WIDOT and join Goons or Bastion as a merged single corp. |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
597
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 18:39:37 -
[284] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell, With SMA announcing they are no longer going to be a member of Imperium, and moving to NPC Null Sec to "rebuild" the alliance, how does that make you feel?
Drowned in da Nile :(
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13886
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:08:01 -
[285] - Quote
SMA left the Imperium? Ok, so NOW can we go back to calling it the CFC?
Things are happening so fast I can hardly keep up, and I'm fighting in this war. I was in the war against the Old NC, and that was a real fight compared to this. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7465
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:21:27 -
[286] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell, With SMA announcing they are no longer going to be a member of Imperium, and moving to NPC Null Sec to "rebuild" the alliance, how does that make you feel? See previous answer on your weird questions.
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Not just NPC null but Outer Ring, far away from anywhere. River mentioned running SoE missions out there, but there are no SoE agents there at all -- just ORE, offering only mining missions, and there are only two level 4 agents in the entire region.
It's going to be extremely rough rebuilding under those circumstances. I'm not sure how they're going to do it. It's actually really handy that it's outer ring. See I have two main things going on in EVE, one is being with SMA, the other in building a hub in Solitude. This moves them close enough together that I can work between the two.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
212
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:28:54 -
[287] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Not just NPC null but Outer Ring, far away from anywhere. River mentioned running SoE missions out there, but there are no SoE agents there at all -- just ORE, offering only mining missions, and there are only two level 4 agents in the entire region.
It's going to be extremely rough rebuilding under those circumstances. I'm not sure how they're going to do it. It's actually really handy that it's outer ring. See I have two main things going on in EVE, one is being with SMA, the other in building a hub in Solitude. This moves them close enough together that I can work between the two.
Always a great idea to make plans for the future, but even more so now!
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1719
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 21:47:53 -
[288] - Quote
Brave Newbies put up more of a fight than this. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1079
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 21:57:02 -
[289] - Quote
Delve is where alliances go to die. Cloud ring is where dead alliances collapse.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
298
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 22:11:45 -
[290] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Delve is where alliances go to die. Cloud ring is where dead alliances collapse.
Lucas will tell you, they're not dead. They're just pulling a tactical implosion, a smart choice given the odds.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
|
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1720
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 00:41:48 -
[291] - Quote
Quote:How do we quietly dispose of SMA? |
Mario Putzo
1626
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 02:43:58 -
[292] - Quote
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/SpaceMonkey's_Alliance
Can't even ski down the face of that slope. |
Kharamete
Royal Assent
137
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 02:56:18 -
[293] - Quote
They say that Syndicate is the region where alliances go to die. That may very well be true. I donGÇÖt know. As a former resident of NM-OEA I do know, however, that Outer Ring is the bone orchard of alliances. ItGÇÖs the place where the old graves of alliances are bulldozed over, and the whitened bones of them get crushed under the caterpillar tracks as they're turned up. What I want to say about this isGǪ Outer Ring is not a salvation for anything.
A 2500+ alliance which goes there will quickly see itself become, at most, a 250 man alliance.
CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."
My little youtube videos can be found here
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
14
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 03:57:00 -
[294] - Quote
And that would be SMA tossing themselves off---errr---onto the rubbish heap of EvE history. Adios and lol.
|
Jacques d'Orleans
Bergmann Industries Bergmann Federation
2754
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 07:16:01 -
[295] - Quote
Relevant
The beginning of the End
Never drink anything that only gets a lukewarm recommendation from an Australian infantryman!
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
416
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 08:07:10 -
[296] - Quote
i just hope SMA can lower the price of ORE Reinforced Bulkheads for my hull tanking.
Just Add Water
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13886
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 13:03:11 -
[297] - Quote
So this weekend I decided to run some high sec incursions to pass the time. The wait times do tend to get long on the weekends. But this weekend it was next level long. In my incursion community we signal we want to join a fleet via a web based waitlist that tells us where we are on the list and also what the average wait time is.
At one point the average wait time to get into the TVP fleet was 3+ hours. I glanced at Warp To Me's chat (I sometimes fly with them too) and people were complaining about the same thing. People were stacked up waiting like it was a 1970s gas station lol.
On a hunch I started checking out the employment histories of people talking in TVP's chat. OMG there were a lot of character that used to be in corps that used to be in SMA and a few other imperium alliances lol. If anyone decides to go looking for Space Monkeys, just fly to the nearest incurion focus and there you go |
Warmonger Simon
Trinity Alpha Zero
17
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 13:09:12 -
[298] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:At one point the average wait time to get into the TVP fleet was 3+ hours. I glanced at Warp To Me's chat (I sometimes fly with them too) and people were complaining about the same thing. People were stacked up waiting like it was a 1970s gas station lol.
From a glance TVP had about 40 people in dps (sniper+dps?) wlist and WTM had around twenty. Still 2-3h wait time if you didn't get in right after downtime. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13886
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 13:24:09 -
[299] - Quote
Warmonger Simon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:At one point the average wait time to get into the TVP fleet was 3+ hours. I glanced at Warp To Me's chat (I sometimes fly with them too) and people were complaining about the same thing. People were stacked up waiting like it was a 1970s gas station lol. From a glance TVP had about 40 people in dps (sniper+dps?) wlist and WTM had around twenty. Still 2-3h wait time if you didn't get in right after downtime.
If you have any CONCORD LP, it might be a good idea to sell now, It's a good chance it's value is about to diminish a bit (probably not much though, CONCORD LP is pretty resilient because to can be converted). It happens any time there is a war (which shifts people out of null and into incursions) or nerf that affects null ratting.
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1735
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 13:38:18 -
[300] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Warmonger Simon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:At one point the average wait time to get into the TVP fleet was 3+ hours. I glanced at Warp To Me's chat (I sometimes fly with them too) and people were complaining about the same thing. People were stacked up waiting like it was a 1970s gas station lol. From a glance TVP had about 40 people in dps (sniper+dps?) wlist and WTM had around twenty. Still 2-3h wait time if you didn't get in right after downtime. If you have any CONCORD LP, it might be a good idea to sell now, It's a good chance it's value is about to diminish a bit (probably not much though, CONCORD LP is pretty resilient because to can be converted). It happens any time there is a war (which shifts people out of null and into incursions) or nerf that affects null ratting. basically you again hurt high-seccers with your small 0.0-sec war?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
213
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 14:39:10 -
[301] - Quote
Quote:(7:16:42 PM) t********:sma and fcon are honestly worse than useless
Quote:(10:42:25 PM) t**_******: + have we had any diplo 'discussions' with SMA about their ihubbing or lack thereof, or are we just taking their s**t
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1736
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 15:07:04 -
[302] - Quote
side question: can we get ISD to close this copy-paste from Reddit thread already?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Mario Putzo
1629
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 15:40:26 -
[303] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:side question: can we get ISD to close this copy-paste from Reddit thread already?
And justify the reasoning people post on Reddit instead of EVE-O anyway? If ISD's weren't so over the top with moderation we would have a 20 page war thread in CAOD...so I guess if CCP really wants people to not talk about the biggest thing going on in EVE right now on their own website sure ISD's should definitely close it.
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
89
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 17:08:53 -
[304] - Quote
CCP might want to make a sub forum dedicated to wars in general because there isn't much alternative than reddit... |
Primary This Rifter
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1168
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 06:09:02 -
[305] - Quote
I've felt for a while that it would probably be a good thing for this game if the CFC/Imperium disbanded or imploded. Never said it publicly since, you know, I was a member. But now that I'm out it's fun watching it happen from an outsider's perspective.
I should probably change my background. |
Jacques d'Orleans
2761
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 07:11:17 -
[306] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote: I should probably change my background.
Be sure, nobody is looking at your boo, erm, background!
The beginning of the End
Never drink anything that only gets a lukewarm recommendation from an Australian infantryman!
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
16
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 13:01:16 -
[307] - Quote
fofofofofofofofofofofofofofofo
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
422
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 13:11:23 -
[308] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:side question: can we get ISD to close this copy-paste from Reddit thread already?
so you want EvE players to go reddit instead of the official forums to discus game related things?
what's the use of this forum then?
Just Add Water
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
697
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 13:24:09 -
[309] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:side question: can we get ISD to close this copy-paste from Reddit thread already?
Why?
I've never been on reddit in my life. Why do you want me to miss out on content? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4822
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 16:12:40 -
[310] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:They took 3 systems and suddenly Goons are dying. Seriously people, I know you're better than that. Seriously. I was around in 2011, when PL teamed up with basically all of nullsec, killed the Northern Coalition, and took essentially all Goon space except Deklein. Goonswarm had its space back and then some a few weeks later, and the alliance that tried to kill them was shattered.
I was also around and nice narrative, but not quite.
Goons lost their space down south and eventually ended up crashing on Tau Ceti Federation's couch. TCF was slowly rotting from the inside out, so Goons kinda picked up Deklein. TCF was part of the then Northern Coaltion (not the alliance). Goons were kind of like an adjunct member, IMO. They were blue and they shared quite a bit, but they still had alot of independence, again IMO.
Around that time the Drone Region Federation (DRF for short; made up of White Noise, Raiden. and a few other alliances) basically got into a pissing match with the Northern Coalition (NC, note not NC.), can't remember who in the NC started it, but they basically moved on an entry system to the drone regions.
Things got out of hand and the the DRF made use of their huge super numbers and brought in PL. Eventually the NC lost even though Goons were helping them. The DRF stopped at the borders of Deklein. Eventually the DRF settled into their new digs, started renter alliances, etc. They got fat and happy and leadership to a large extent went AFK.
Goons noticed the rot taking hold and decided to invade. Started off, IIRC, Goons and some allies moving into Branch and Tenal with TEST and other Goon allies making a feint into Tribute. Once Branch and Tenal fell, so did Tribute and Vale of the Silent. The DRF were pretty much toast and alliances that used to live in the Drone regions made their move to take back their "homelands".
So it wasn't "Goonswarm space" intially, but the old NC. Razor, Morsus Mihi, etc.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4822
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 16:13:43 -
[311] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:March rabbit wrote:side question: can we get ISD to close this copy-paste from Reddit thread already? Why? I've never been on reddit in my life. Why do you want me to miss out on content?
Smart...very, very smart.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4822
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 16:21:10 -
[312] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:A temporary setback? I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation. About all of Eve is coming after you. Allied Forces Overview
You're new here aren't you?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4822
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 16:23:16 -
[313] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Good lord, that coalition is going to last like a week before it implodes. Half of the members hate the rest of them. True, but they all hate goons more then they hate each other.
Have you ever been on comms with the guys from Finfleet? In a week you'll hate them more than anyone else.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4822
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 16:29:48 -
[314] - Quote
Sol epoch wrote:CO2 Reset standing with the Imperium!
At last they found the Kahunas to do the right thing.
They found big priests/sorcerers?
Oooohhh you mean cojones.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4822
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 16:34:23 -
[315] - Quote
Duke Killem wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:
Like all other events in this war, they were offered a big wad of money to give up their loyalty. And if a little bit of money is enough to tide you over, "we don't want allies like that anyway".
How disgusting of a corp, alliance or a single person to be offered isk to break their loyalty.....hmmmmm wasn't this how The Goons disbanded BoB? The promise of riches for one and infamy for another!
No.
A disenchanted director in a BoB corp and with an alt in the executor corp approached the Mittani about screwing over BoB. Once the Mittani realized this guy had director roles in the executor corp and that he could "turn off BoB sov" with the push of a button....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7457
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 00:20:45 -
[316] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Sol epoch wrote:CO2 Reset standing with the Imperium!
At last they found the Kahunas to do the right thing. They found big priests/sorcerers? Oooohhh you mean cojones.
C'mon it was already cool enough using "Kahunas".
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4452
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 00:37:26 -
[317] - Quote
I have to give The Mittani his due, he does come up with some great b.s. humor. Not "World War Bee, the "Casino War." |
Mario Putzo
1643
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 00:53:02 -
[318] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Duke Killem wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:
Like all other events in this war, they were offered a big wad of money to give up their loyalty. And if a little bit of money is enough to tide you over, "we don't want allies like that anyway".
How disgusting of a corp, alliance or a single person to be offered isk to break their loyalty.....hmmmmm wasn't this how The Goons disbanded BoB? The promise of riches for one and infamy for another! No. A disenchanted director in a BoB corp and with an alt in the executor corp approached the Mittani about screwing over BoB. Once the Mittani realized this guy had director roles in the executor corp and that he could "turn off BoB sov" with the push of a button....
While true, all be it revisionist. Mittani didn't have much to do with that, despite being credited in a comic book. According to a former GS CEO DariusJOHNSON, Mittani himself was nothing more than a fly on the wall for the planning stages of the actual "headshot".
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/42co46/im_darius_johnson_former_ceo_of_goonswarm_csm_1/
Quote: My memory isn't the greatest but if I recall correctly Haargoth was found out by Tamir. Tamir then went to Mittani and was like "Hey I have a guy". It is accurate that Mittani planned a corp theft. It is not accurate however that he conceived of anything that followed. XTTZ, who was a GENIUS when it came to game mechanics (having abused motherships to hold regions solo, caused numerous changes to the test server due to our use of information disclosures such as where BoB's titan blueprints were stored) is who I believe realized we could disband the alliance. Only then was the plan changed and it culminated in a voice comm channel (don't recall what we used at the time) with myself, Vile Rat, Tamir, Mittani, XTTZ and Haargoth. I can't recall if anyone else was present. Graham might have been and he'll get more credit later. Suffice it to say I should have been less dismissive when immediately Mittani's first response was "Oh my god I just disbanded bob". Not sure anyone there can validate given their current status but these are facts.
Which I believe because I don't remember Mittani being relevant in the community, outside an easily trolled CAOD poster, until after Kartoon imploded GS and DariusJOHNSON handed the keys to car after getting it set up in Deklein with TCF.
But thats irrelevant because it happend 7 years ago, and honestly who gives a **** about something a guy claims to have been a big part of 7 years ago. He ain't doing **** right now except get trolled hard and spaz out. It is funny to watch, best meltdown in EVE ever. |
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
16
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 02:59:06 -
[319] - Quote
I loved flying with Finfleet way back before you chirrins were around. LV 4eva
fofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofo fofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofo fofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofo butterdog fofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofo fofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofo fofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofofo
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1099
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 03:55:39 -
[320] - Quote
Jesus christ, no wonder mittens had to hire somebody to write his book. That was awful.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1100
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 06:13:40 -
[321] - Quote
Tango down. FCON is pulling an SMA and finding a corner to go die in.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7476
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 07:39:45 -
[322] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:I have to give The Mittani his due, he does come up with some great b.s. humor. Not "World War Bee, the " Casino War." I think that one was Nosy actually.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Jacques d'Orleans
2765
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 12:37:54 -
[323] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Khergit Deserters wrote:I have to give The Mittani his due, he does come up with some great b.s. humor. Not "World War Bee, the " Casino War." I think that one was Nosy actually.
Yes, you're right, it was Nosy who came up with Casino War. Tbh, Casino War sounds way better than Mittens "War of Sovless aggression".
The beginning of the End
Never drink anything that only gets a lukewarm recommendation from an Australian infantryman!
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
971
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 13:19:29 -
[324] - Quote
Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War?
What will likely be true throughout the whole war is, that the aggressor for the most part doesn't give a **** about sov. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
27
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 13:31:55 -
[325] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War?
What will likely be true throughout the whole war is, that the aggressor for the most part doesn't give a **** about sov. Who fights for the hide while the bear is still alive?
|
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
441
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:00:50 -
[326] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War? Yes.
IWI stated that it is now paying for total war against the Goons, courtesy of Mittens trying to get an angle on IWI out of game.
You can read the article here.
Sneaky bastard.
|
Il Reverendo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:07:39 -
[327] - Quote
I think 'War of aggressionless sov' is far more appropriate considering mbc is taking and defending sov and those bee guys rolled over into inties (or just plain left - the space and/or the coalition) and gave up just as things actually began in earnest.
But really we all know it's World War Bee.
(incidentally far fewer people are being paid than the kool-aid would lead you to believe and most of the actually important factions doing the heavy lifting are doing it for their own very obvious reasons that really have nothing to do with isk whether they receive any tiny drops in their respective oceans or not) |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1742
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:09:59 -
[328] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War? Yes. IWI stated that it is now paying for total war against the Goons, courtesy of Mittens trying to get an angle on IWI out of game. You can read the article here. Yea... That was funny writeup: - we are out of game organization (IWI) - they (Mittany) cannot attack us in game - we (IWI) can attack them in the game - they (Mittani) used out of game means to fight us! =
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Il Reverendo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:40:59 -
[329] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:- they (Mittani) used out of game means to fight us! =
Which would be what exactly?
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7458
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 16:27:17 -
[330] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War? Yes. IWI stated that it is now paying for total war against the Goons, courtesy of Mittens trying to get an angle on IWI out of game. You can read the article here.
And this is why MBC fights (as the saying goes).
Salt indeed.... Seeing goons deploy SJW-like tactics lends a certain sperging element to all this that makes me wonder if this is a going to become a meta-demographic war. What "kind of people" are these goons? We'll find out. I don't expect the results to be the kind that raises faith in humanity.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13896
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 17:56:03 -
[331] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War? Yes. IWI stated that it is now paying for total war against the Goons, courtesy of Mittens trying to get an angle on IWI out of game. You can read the article here. And this is why MBC fights (as the saying goes). Salt indeed.... Seeing goons deploy SJW-like tactics lends a certain sperging element to all this that makes me wonder if this is a going to become a meta-demographic war. What "kind of people" are these goons? We'll find out. I don't expect the results to be the kind that raises faith in humanity.
Case in point: https://twitter.com/TheMittani/status/720287584144887812
I was meh when told I'd be leaving my ratting space to go invade the north. Now every night at work I can't wait to get home to shoot at space bees lol.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7458
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 18:28:00 -
[332] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War? Yes. IWI stated that it is now paying for total war against the Goons, courtesy of Mittens trying to get an angle on IWI out of game. You can read the article here. And this is why MBC fights (as the saying goes). Salt indeed.... Seeing goons deploy SJW-like tactics lends a certain sperging element to all this that makes me wonder if this is a going to become a meta-demographic war. What "kind of people" are these goons? We'll find out. I don't expect the results to be the kind that raises faith in humanity. Case in point: https://twitter.com/TheMittani/status/720287584144887812 I was meh when told I'd be leaving my ratting space to go invade the north. Now every night at work I can't wait to get home to shoot at space bees lol.
Some funny replies to that tweet though. "Flustered Cucks Coalition". LOL.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
138
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 19:16:08 -
[333] - Quote
This is the end, I have foreseen it in a vision. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4541
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 19:42:07 -
[334] - Quote
welp can't argue with a bona fide prophecy rip imperium
unless the prophecy has been misinterpreted... or has it? the twist is at the start of act iii probably |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7476
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 20:36:23 -
[335] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War? Yes. IWI stated that it is now paying for total war against the Goons, courtesy of Mittens trying to get an angle on IWI out of game. You can read the article here. Yea... That was funny writeup: - we are out of game organization (IWI) - they (Mittany) cannot attack us in game - we (IWI) can attack them in the game - they (Mittani) used out of game means to fight us! = TBH, if there ever were a concrete argument for why sites like IWI simply shouldn't be allowed (beside allowing untraceable RMT), he's given it right there. They are an out of game entity that can't be touched in the game but can use their out of game isk generation methods to attack in game players. Botting is banned because it supports RMT and conveys an unfair advantage to users, so why would this not be exactly the same?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2825
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 21:15:06 -
[336] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:March rabbit wrote:Yea... That was funny writeup: - we are out of game organization (IWI) - they (Mittany) cannot attack us in game - we (IWI) can attack them in the game - they (Mittani) used out of game means to fight us! = TBH, if there ever were a concrete argument for why sites like IWI simply shouldn't be allowed (beside allowing untraceable RMT), he's given it right there. They are an out of game entity that can't be touched in the game but can use their out of game isk generation methods to attack in game players. Botting is banned because it supports RMT and conveys an unfair advantage to users, so why would this not be exactly the same? I have a lot of sympathy with this position. It mus be immensely frustrating to face an enemy that you cannot actually attack in game. It is funny at the moment because it is goons but honestly, the position it leaves us all in is an unhealthy one.
But to address it you would really have to severely curtail gambling in EVE and CCP is demonstrably unwilling to do so.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2825
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 21:19:39 -
[337] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War? Yes. IWI stated that it is now paying for total war against the Goons, courtesy of Mittens trying to get an angle on IWI out of game. You can read the article here. And this is why MBC fights (as the saying goes). Salt indeed.... Seeing goons deploy SJW-like tactics lends a certain sperging element to all this that makes me wonder if this is a going to become a meta-demographic war. What "kind of people" are these goons? We'll find out. I don't expect the results to be the kind that raises faith in humanity. Case in point: https://twitter.com/TheMittani/status/720287584144887812 I was meh when told I'd be leaving my ratting space to go invade the north. Now every night at work I can't wait to get home to shoot at space bees lol. Exactly. Everything he has said over the last couple of weeks has just strengthened the resolve of his opponents. At first the MBC seemed (broadly speaking) to be content with purging the north. Now I wouldn't be surprised to see ongoing persecution in lowsec, or wherever goons choose to go next.
I understand that it was all meant for his own audience. But the lack of action to back up the extraordinary rhetoric just sounds increasingly hollow. At this point, his "hellwar" would merely equal continued feeding on the Saranen undock.
They should have defended the buffer regions. I think they were (again) playing the meta game in terms of wanting to attrition to result in incorporation of their allies' stronger corps into GSF. But it got out of hand and they now have no way of stopping the momentum.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
156
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 23:17:46 -
[338] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:March rabbit wrote:Yea... That was funny writeup: - we are out of game organization (IWI) - they (Mittany) cannot attack us in game - we (IWI) can attack them in the game - they (Mittani) used out of game means to fight us! = TBH, if there ever were a concrete argument for why sites like IWI simply shouldn't be allowed (beside allowing untraceable RMT), he's given it right there. They are an out of game entity that can't be touched in the game but can use their out of game isk generation methods to attack in game players. Botting is banned because it supports RMT and conveys an unfair advantage to users, so why would this not be exactly the same? I have a lot of sympathy with this position. It mus be immensely frustrating to face an enemy that you cannot actually attack in game. It is funny at the moment because it is goons but honestly, the position it leaves us all in is an unhealthy one. But to address it you would really have to severely curtail gambling in EVE and CCP is demonstrably unwilling to do so.
There is ALWAYS an avenue to attack. A function running outside of the game would be starved by cutting off it's in-game funds. What 'The Mittani' was trying to do was trying to rules lawyer an attack up but it seems to have fallen flat with CCP. So, now 'The Mittani' is trying to bad mouth and bad PR the IWI out of their ISK stream. The issue I see is that he has an unpopularity problem. If the IWI CEO is not making up that their constant stream of players have doubled, the I think 'The Mittani' has an even bigger unpopularity problem on his hands than many have speculated.
I'll make a small change and see how the same conditions might play out.
A vastly popular player who runs a massive alliance, is selfless, is always helping everyone become better at the game, constantly improving the game even at the cost of his own accomplishments not being noticed, elevates his corporation mates/alliance member corps, mitgates with fairness all the squabbles and problems that arise, surrounds himself with people that do the same, is essentially beloved by all... has a on-line bank declare war on his alliance.
He graciously accepts the war, and since he's kept his forces trained, sharp and ready to go, even outnumbered they are a tough fight.
Now, the attackers would be seen as trying to dig into an alliance that was well respected for only (as the IWI CEO put it 'the fun of it') they likely would be in it for as long as the fun was actually fun. But if serious gains were made against the popular alliance and that alliance kept up the good fight, eventually EVE public opinion would turn and say "Okay, fun is fun, content is content but this has about run its course." and that probably would suck the life out of the attack. The bank and the Alliance leader would smoke the peace pipe, laugh over it, hand out some awards for stellar performances, and peace breaks out.
In essence, as the IWI CEO somewhat pointed out, if 'The Mittani' had been well liked in EVE or even stayed within the game, the attack would've been dead by now because even the IWI CEO wouldn't want to spend more ISK on it and EVE would've gone back to normal. Instead it seems to have gotten personal, which is easy to happen, but it probably will drag this war out. By doing what he did, 'The Mittani', actually opened up a second front for the war. That rarely works out well unless you have an extreme upper hand or fanatically loyal followers....
The reason a bank isn't really a problem as an agressor is that they don't have any real assets other than to hire mercs as agressors. It's why you can't attack them, but it's also their Achilles Heel. They are a non-entity. If nobody played their 'out of game...game' or opted to work for them, they are nothing. The MBC could fall apart tomorrow even if the ISK stream was strong. The only galvanizing force for the MBC here seems to be a genuine dislike of a single person.
I'm not saying it's founded or unfounded, I'm just stating what I'm seeing going on here. My guess would be if 'The Mittani' acted differently and made up for whatever his percieved failures were, or left the game... the war would peter out to nothing in the matter of a couple of weeks.
Just a guess though.
P.S. Using 'quotes' on 'The Mittani' to allow for all of the various perceptions of him and the moniker to be appropriate. He's appears to have a multi-operable entitiy on the term and I don't want to offend any of the possible ways to use his entity-ness.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4454
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 00:22:30 -
[339] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Only that SMA is out, and the "Casino" stated that they only paid mercs against SMA. Will it still be a Casino War? Yes. IWI stated that it is now paying for total war against the Goons, courtesy of Mittens trying to get an angle on IWI out of game. You can read the article here. And this is why MBC fights (as the saying goes). Salt indeed.... Seeing goons deploy SJW-like tactics lends a certain sperging element to all this that makes me wonder if this is a going to become a meta-demographic war. What "kind of people" are these goons? We'll find out. I don't expect the results to be the kind that raises faith in humanity. True that. The illegal in Florida gambling article was pretty desperate. The I'm a Just a Regular Ingame Gamer Fellow Having a Go at Some Fun rebuttal was about as credible. (::Aside:: Had an EVEmail dialogue with IWI when they were building up, not trillionaires yet. Asked if wanted to donate anything at all for a winners of a community event. Shite, it was like haggling with a fishwife about what they were going to get out of it, where are your stats about publicity/number of hits, blah blah. Meh, was just for fun, throw something into the Salvation Army bin or don't. Gave up, never invited again).
Anyway, as was printed on an old Talking Heads t-shirt (with pictures of Benito, Francisco, Josef, Idi, etc., "Who's your favorite dictator?" |
Pryce Caesar
Evil Young Flesh
64
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 01:31:07 -
[340] - Quote
I left EVE for the time being because I am busy with exams. Now it seems like MBC may burn down Goonswarm before I'm done exams on the 19th (and before EVEFest).
Which makes me wonder how exactly things will unfold at the EVE Fanfest. A lot of people will be there, and I'd bet dollars to diamonds that The Mittani will be there as well to try to promote himself or something else. If things turn out worse than they did at Fanfest 2012 (that event is immortalized on Cracked.com), he might wind up getting himself ejected from EVE altogether.
|
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7463
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 01:35:01 -
[341] - Quote
My prediction (got my Great Karnak on):
Goons will be routed to Saranen, their alliances broken apart, their dear leader screaming from his bunker like a certain Adolph fellow (cue future Downfall meme video) at goon FCs who will be more busy moving their stuff to safety than leading doomed fleets, while in these forums "Bagdad Bob" style talking points about all going well and how the alliance is doomed will continues until people start posting killmails so fast the ISD has a heart attack. And then the goons will be farmed until such time occurs that everybody gets bored with them and becomes busy with Fozzie SOV.
All those massive ranks of goons, sold on going to nullsec to farm (sold by the same goons that pointed at highsec and projected their hatred of having to sell carebearing on "highsec carebears") will be absorbed by other organizations if they even stay in the game. Or they will stay dormant.
Rainbows and frikkin' unicorns....
But the goons will be down and not out. Going with their roots of "ruining YOUR game", expect to see them in highsec a lot, ruining that game in particular. Expect to see the return of Hulkageddon, more "Burn Amarr/Jita" (which will be routed to Niarja and Uedama by anti-gankers but they won't admit it they'll just say they wanted to) and more highsec "Aggro fu" tactics seeking to turn the sandbox into a litterbox all out of spite. The best at this will rise up, create blogs pointing at laughing at some hapless noob who showed "tears" from time to time, and all that. It will be called "content", said in the same sneering tone used by Smaug whenever referring to, well, anything nice.
Maybe we'll see some feats from the past, like "1000 rifter fleets" and other stuff of legend? You see goons were not always like this. I was told once, by a well known goon, that goons "sold out to R64". That goons were once fun, the atmosphere and culture, the things they did. But no more. I have not seen that goon, who I love to drop bombs on in VFK on occasion, in a very long time.
If there is anybody left among the goons who remember the core spirit and concept of "goon", those who did not see what Mittens was turning their organization into long ago and left, they might reconsider their own leadership at this point.
If this game is still around in 10 years (and I suspect it will be) and noobs should ask me questions along the line of "who was this Mittani person?" I would best describe him as "the mouth that launched ten thousand spaceships".
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1105
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 02:06:53 -
[342] - Quote
The Mittani and GSF leadership aren't going this year afaik. I'm sure plenty of goons are going, but they might not be goons by the time it actually goes around.
Since, you know, we're all busy burning them to the ground.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7477
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 06:34:15 -
[343] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:There is ALWAYS an avenue to attack. A function running outside of the game would be starved by cutting off it's in-game funds. Except there is no way to do this. He's using third party software to make ISK, and there' no way to attack that because it's not in game at all. It's not even like a botter where you can still try to attack the pilots or mess up the market around them, it's untouchable. Like Zappity said, it's funny right now because it's goons, but it's obvious from how many anti-IWI people are suddenly swapping side that it's not always been the opinion before this war. Once it's over there's still the same problem that there's a player being actively allowed to break multiple rules to be in a complete unassailable position in game.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1105
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 06:57:43 -
[344] - Quote
I guess that makes using TS3 to do, well, ANYTHING in game rule breaking.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7478
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 07:17:59 -
[345] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:I guess that makes using TS3 to do, well, ANYTHING in game rule breaking. Wow, people still try to use reductio ad absurdum in arguments? I tell you what, let's go for it. Sure, let's say that TS3 does convey an in-game advantage (even though clearly it doesn't in anywhere close to the same way). First of there in-game tools to do the exact same thing. Secondly the software to do the exact same thing out of game is freely available so any player is able to leverage the exact same benefit. thirdly, the benefits given by TS3 aren't in-game benefits, they simply allow players to communicate. If logging on to TS3 made my ships tougher or stuck isk in my wallet then I'd fully expect it to be banned.
The thing is I think if you took a step back away from your bias, as what IWI is doing is benefiting you thus allowing you to overlook the reality of it, you'd be able to see how a player being able to use uncounterable out of game tools to collect trillions of isk is game-breakingly bad.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 07:29:36 -
[346] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:I guess that makes using TS3 to do, well, ANYTHING in game rule breaking. Wow, people still try to use reductio ad absurdum in arguments? I tell you what, let's go for it. Sure, let's say that TS3 does convey an in-game advantage (even though clearly it doesn't in anywhere close to the same way). First of there in-game tools to do the exact same thing. Secondly the software to do the exact same thing out of game is freely available so any player is able to leverage the exact same benefit. thirdly, the benefits given by TS3 aren't in-game benefits, they simply allow players to communicate. If logging on to TS3 made my ships tougher or stuck isk in my wallet then I'd fully expect it to be banned. The thing is I think if you took a step back away from your bias, as what IWI is doing is benefiting you thus allowing you to overlook the reality of it, you'd be able to see how a player being able to use uncounterable out of game tools to collect trillions of isk is game-breakingly bad.
Maybe what we're seeing is just the power a bank style group can have in a game like EvE, money is power after all. IWI was able to generate isk from players from all walks of life, it has skimmed profit from a large market and now has the ability to use that money to pay for war on a massive scale. This ability is too much for an out-of-game entity with no route to attack them so I have to agree with Lucas on this. Though I'd be very interested to see just how much isk IWI have in fact paid out to mercs, I'd wager that they got a big discount for how disliked mittani and goons have become.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
138
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 07:38:02 -
[347] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:I guess that makes using TS3 to do, well, ANYTHING in game rule breaking. Wow, people still try to use reductio ad absurdum in arguments? I tell you what, let's go for it. Sure, let's say that TS3 does convey an in-game advantage (even though clearly it doesn't in anywhere close to the same way). First of there in-game tools to do the exact same thing. Secondly the software to do the exact same thing out of game is freely available so any player is able to leverage the exact same benefit. thirdly, the benefits given by TS3 aren't in-game benefits, they simply allow players to communicate. If logging on to TS3 made my ships tougher or stuck isk in my wallet then I'd fully expect it to be banned. The thing is I think if you took a step back away from your bias, as what IWI is doing is benefiting you thus allowing you to overlook the reality of it, you'd be able to see how a player being able to use uncounterable out of game tools to collect trillions of isk is game-breakingly bad. Maybe what we're seeing is just the power a bank style group can have in a game like EvE, money is power after all. IWI was able to generate isk from players from all walks of life, it has skimmed profit from a large market and now has the ability to use that money to pay for war on a massive scale. This ability is too much for an out-of-game entity with no route to attack them so I have to agree with Lucas on this. Though I'd be very interested to see just how much isk IWI have in fact paid out to mercs, I'd wager that they got a big discount for how disliked mittani and goons have become.
If you can't beat them, join them? Make a Goonambling site. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7478
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 08:32:43 -
[348] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:If you can't beat them, join them? Make a Goonambling site. That doesn't fix the problem though does it? Imagine if they resolved botting by saying "OK, well everyone else can just bot then".
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1743
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 08:34:27 -
[349] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:The Mittani and GSF leadership aren't going this year afaik. I'm sure plenty of goons are going, but they might not be goons by the time it actually goes around.
Since, you know, we're all busy burning them to the ground. to "fight" Fozzie-sov you don't need other players
So nope... They freely can go to Fanfest and you will sit at home and orbit beacons "burning them to the ground"
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1105
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 08:40:51 -
[350] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chewytowel Haklar wrote:If you can't beat them, join them? Make a Goonambling site. That doesn't fix the problem though does it? Imagine if they resolved botting by saying "OK, well everyone else can just bot then".
Two things, one, The Mittani DID launch a gambling site, it failed miserably. Because even his own membership didn't like it. So complaining that its not fair that somebody else did a gambling site better than you is just lame. Two, you literally JUST SAID that TS3 is indeed available to anybody. Just like a website is. Which you can put gambling stuff on. You're just bad at it.
Not to mention IM clients, private forums, and all of the cloak and dagger tools that spies and counterspies in EVE use every day to try and gain in game advantages. All of which the emporium uses, and STILL can't seem to do anything but lose space and moons.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7479
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 10:37:16 -
[351] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Two things, one, The Mittani DID launch a gambling site, it failed miserably. Because even his own membership didn't like it. So complaining that its not fair that somebody else did a gambling site better than you is just lame. Two, you literally JUST SAID that TS3 is indeed available to anybody. Just like a website is. Which you can put gambling stuff on. You're just bad at it.
Not to mention IM clients, private forums, and all of the cloak and dagger tools that spies and counterspies in EVE use every day to try and gain in game advantages. All of which the emporium uses, and STILL can't seem to do anything but lose space and moons. Except they aren't available to anyone since you'd have to be able to write them. I could write a bot for EVE, and I could sit around using the excuse "anyone could write it so it's fine" but that doesn't make it true. Again, the only reason you support it is that it benefits you. If you take a step back and look at it objectively (which I doubt very much you are capable of doing), a player being able to use an uncounterable third party application to generate income is completely unbalanced.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
442
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 12:29:54 -
[352] - Quote
What is the diffrence betweem IWI and some random ultra rich NPC corp margin trader sitting in Jita?
Both are 'intouchable' by in-game means, especially since a multi trillionaire trader would and will use an alt to anounce financing a war.
Complaining about one or the other is pointless, both are invulnerable to in-game retaliation.
Sneaky bastard.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7479
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 12:39:19 -
[353] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:What is the diffrence betweem IWI and some random ultra rich NPC corp margin trader sitting in Jita?
Both are 'intouchable' by in-game means, especially since a multi trillionaire trader would and will use an alt to anounce financing a war.
Complaining about one or the other is pointless, both are invulnerable to in-game retaliation. Well for starters an NPC corp margin trader is using in-game mechanics to generate his income. Secondly, margin traders can be and are affected, either by finding out what they trade and affecting that directly or by affecting the economy around them. Thirdly they can be directly competed with by other players, meaning that in order to beat the enemy they have to be better at generating that income than their enemy using the same mechanics. That's the whole point of competitive games. But when someone uses a third party tool to gain a direct advantage, it breaks the balance. This is why botters aren't allowed.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
158
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 14:55:51 -
[354] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:There is ALWAYS an avenue to attack. A function running outside of the game would be starved by cutting off it's in-game funds. Except there is no way to do this. He's using third party software to make ISK, and there' no way to attack that because it's not in game at all. It's not even like a botter where you can still try to attack the pilots or mess up the market around them, it's untouchable. Like Zappity said, it's funny right now because it's goons, but it's obvious from how many anti-IWI people are suddenly swapping side that it's not always been the opinion before this war. Once it's over there's still the same problem that there's a player being actively allowed to break multiple rules to be in a complete unassailable position in game.
I understand what you are trying to say but I think you missed what I was saying. He has a hard time attacking that stream of funds because of his own status in the game. He appears to have made something of a tactical blunder by trying to take the fight outside of the game and take down IWI with RL legalish mechanisms and complaints to CCP. This was a non-winner from the get go and while I understand his frustration, he's actually fighting himself here since there would be no lasting war without him being whom he is.
Being a 'bank' or 'out of game' is something of irrelevancy. They function entirely off an in-game ISK stream. Without players adding to that stream, there is no money or will to fight. So, what causes that ISK stream is where you 'attack' them. Player perception of this is everything.
If the Goonswarm looses this fight, it's not because they didn't try to defend their Imperium, or try to put out 'propaganda', it will be because their leader has made enough enemies of other players with just his personality/actions that it painted a target on him. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it's just an observation from a 3rd party stance. I'm a neutral.
I could offer him some advice on how to stop this war in a matter of days and come out looking like the better person for it, but I'm not certain he'd be willing to listen.
I do know people though, and how they react to things. My view of this is that the way the war was done on the avenue of attack that would actually WORK against the IWI was done so poorly as to make things worse.
This is an asymmetrical war, it's unlike any other that has happened in EVE prior to this point (at least that I have been able to research). The ship to ship combat is actually a side show to the real war that is the EVE player base perception of the two sides. If you compare the IWI CEO's letter (which is actually a tidy, smart bit of propaganda in and of itself) to the 'leaked' logs of the chat's within the Imperium's leadership, you can see the entire player base perception of the war in just two documents. The IWI appears to not be hiding anything, is open about their role and why they are in it. The Imperium leadership is coming across as well... you can read it clearly for yourself.
I'm not certain the Imperium's leadership is equipped with the tools to fight back on this avenue, thus, it looks like they "can't" fight back, but that's not true, it would just require something of them that is not easily reachable by those personalities.
I find it completely amazing that a 'game' like EVE has now reached an even new dimension of complexity. It now showcases how singular personalities can dominate a battlefield. History is rife with stories of these larger than life people in war, but to see it happen in a video game is... awesome.
I'm not certain any other MMO is capable of this dimension of play.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 15:31:55 -
[355] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I understand what you are trying to say but I think you missed what I was saying. He has a hard time attacking that stream of funds because of his own status in the game. He appears to have made something of a tactical blunder by trying to take the fight outside of the game and take down IWI with RL legalish mechanisms and complaints to CCP. This was a non-winner from the get go and while I understand his frustration, he's actually fighting himself here since there would be no lasting war without him being whom he is.
Being a 'bank' or 'out of game' is something of irrelevancy. They function entirely off an in-game ISK stream. Without players adding to that stream, there is no money or will to fight. So, what causes that ISK stream is where you 'attack' them. Player perception of this is everything. How exactly do you stop players adding to that stream in game though? Impersonation rules mean you can't set up scam corps of a similar name to gain isk, and I doubt flying around saying "don't do that" is going to do much, so the only way is to go after their reputation.
And the truth is that what they've been saying isn't really wrong. IWI does have a much higher rate of confirmed RMT cases, there have been multiple independent claims that they are using shills and weighted odds, and there are clear EULA violations that do seem to be ignored (operating an account as a business as an example).
Pandora Carrollon wrote:If the Goonswarm looses this fight, it's not because they didn't try to defend their Imperium, or try to put out 'propaganda', it will be because their leader has made enough enemies of other players with just his personality/actions that it painted a target on him. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it's just an observation from a 3rd party stance. I'm a neutral. When the Imperium loses this fight - and I say when, not if - it will be because they have no ability to fight against a third party application. It may take a long time but Imperium income is in-game, using legitimate mechanics which means it can be attacked, a core part of EVE, while IWI income cannot. The inevitability of this is that IWI will simply outlast the Imperium.
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I could offer him some advice on how to stop this war in a matter of days and come out looking like the better person for it, but I'm not certain he'd be willing to listen. I sincerely doubt that. I'm sure you have ideas and believe they would really work on paper but reality is that there's no real winning solution. Survive and hope they get bored is pretty much the only viable solution.
Pandora Carrollon wrote:If you compare the IWI CEO's letter (which is actually a tidy, smart bit of propaganda in and of itself) to the 'leaked' logs of the chat's within the Imperium's leadership, you can see the entire player base perception of the war in just two documents.
The IWI appears to not be hiding anything, is open about their role and why they are in it. The Imperium leadership is coming across as well... you can read it clearly for yourself. Of course, because you're taking unedited IWI propaganda straight from IWI and comparing it to a reddit posters hack job of leaks specifically cut to maximize anti-goon impact. You're not comparing pro-MBC and pro-Goon material there, you are comparing pro-MBC and anti-goon material, both of which have the goal of putting goons in a bad light. Of course if you look at only things with an anti-goon bias you are going to see it that way.
I do read it for myself and I don't just limit myself to looking at what MBC wants me to. For example, I look at the fact that the vast majority of the times where people have claimed Mittani is spinning, what he has said has been verifiably true.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
705
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 15:56:59 -
[356] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:When the Imperium loses this fight - and I say when, not if - it will be because they have no ability to fight against a third party application. It may take a long time but Imperium income is in-game, using legitimate mechanics which means it can be attacked, a core part of EVE, while IWI income cannot. The inevitability of this is that IWI will simply outlast the Imperium.
They aren't fighting against a third party application. They are fighting, in reality, against thousands upon thousands of players who used a gambling service that they enjoy. There is a way to fight against IWI, and that's to discourage the playerbase from using it in the first place.
Is that hard? Hell yes it is, but complaining about it is akin to grr goons. Don't complain about not being able to fight someone just because you haven't figured out how to do it successfully yet.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 16:43:28 -
[357] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:They aren't fighting against a third party application. They are fighting, in reality, against thousands upon thousands of players who used a gambling service that they enjoy. There is a way to fight against IWI, and that's to discourage the playerbase from using it in the first place.
Is that hard? Hell yes it is, but complaining about it is akin to grr goons. Don't complain about not being able to fight someone just because you haven't figured out how to do it successfully yet. By hard you really mean impossible. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I'm pretty sure convincing the entire EVE playerbase to not do something isn't actually possible. I'm not complaining about IWI just because of this war, feel free to check my posting history on IWI in the past.
The fact remains that ignoring the parties involved, looking at this objectively, having one side using a third party application to gain isk with no counter and the other using legitimate game mechanics that can be countered, there's a clear balance issue there. One that evidently shouldn't exist, since gaining an unfair benefit through the use of a third party application is already against the EULA.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
705
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 16:51:29 -
[358] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:By hard you really mean impossible. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I'm pretty sure convincing the entire EVE playerbase to not do something isn't actually possible. I'm not complaining about IWI just because of this war, feel free to check my posting history on IWI in the past.
The fact remains that ignoring the parties involved, looking at this objectively, having one side using a third party application to gain isk with no counter and the other using legitimate game mechanics that can be countered, there's a clear balance issue there. One that evidently shouldn't exist, since gaining an unfair benefit through the use of a third party application is already against the EULA.
I see you're being as ridiculous as usual. IWI found a way to gain ISK from players by playing the social/politician side of EVE. You do realize that the game is about more than simply flying spaceships, right? Fight him the same way he earns isk, by playing the social, political side by use of propaganda. Don't resort to whining and cry about BSbreaches of the EULA because someone found a way to make ISK faster than the rest of us. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7464
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 16:57:11 -
[359] - Quote
As usual, never having had an original idea in my life, much of what is said in this article is what I have been thinking.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 17:03:29 -
[360] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:I see you're being as ridiculous as usual. IWI found a way to gain ISK from players by playing the social/politician side of EVE. You do realize that the game is about more than simply flying spaceships, right? Fight him the same way he earns isk, by playing the social, political side by use of propaganda. Don't resort to whining and cry about BSbreaches of the EULA because someone found a way to make ISK faster than the rest of us. Ridiculous in what what? Yes, IWI found a way to gain isk from players using a third party application. That is undeniable. You can't claim that the IWI site is not a third party application nor can you deny that without that application he'd not have been able to get all of the isk. If he were sitting around in game saying "if you give me isk I'll pay to kill the goons" there's absolutely no way he'd make trillions, and you know that full well.
I love how you're calling me ridiculous then you're going off to deny basic facts about how he makes his isk. Further you're then going down the "the tears" route. I'm not whining or crying about the breaches of the EULA, I'm calmly, rationally and logically pointing out the very real breaches of the EULA that exists and questioning why CCP chooses to ignore it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7464
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 17:05:02 -
[361] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:I see you're being as ridiculous as usual. IWI found a way to gain ISK from players by playing the social/politician side of EVE. You do realize that the game is about more than simply flying spaceships, right? Fight him the same way he earns isk, by playing the social, political side by use of propaganda. Don't resort to whining and cry about BSbreaches of the EULA because someone found a way to make ISK faster than the rest of us. Ridiculous in what what? Yes, IWI found a way to gain isk from players using a third party application. That is undeniable. You can't claim that the IWI site is not a third party application nor can you deny that without that application he'd not have been able to get all of the isk. If he were sitting around in game saying "if you give me isk I'll pay to kill the goons" there's absolutely no way he'd make trillions, and you know that full well. I love how you're calling me ridiculous then you're going off to deny basic facts about how he makes his isk. Further you're then going down the "the tears" route. I'm not whining or crying about the breaches of the EULA, I'm calmly, rationally and logically pointing out the very real breaches of the EULA that exists and questioning why CCP chooses to ignore it.
Let go, Lucas.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
7
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 17:20:38 -
[362] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:They aren't fighting against a third party application. They are fighting, in reality, against thousands upon thousands of players who used a gambling service that they enjoy. There is a way to fight against IWI, and that's to discourage the playerbase from using it in the first place.
Is that hard? Hell yes it is, but complaining about it is akin to grr goons. Don't complain about not being able to fight someone just because you haven't figured out how to do it successfully yet. By hard you really mean impossible. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I'm pretty sure convincing the entire EVE playerbase to not do something isn't actually possible. I'm not complaining about IWI just because of this war, feel free to check my posting history on IWI in the past. The fact remains that ignoring the parties involved, looking at this objectively, having one side using a third party application to gain isk with no counter and the other using legitimate game mechanics that can be countered, there's a clear balance issue there. One that evidently shouldn't exist, since gaining an unfair benefit through the use of a third party application is already against the EULA. I haven't read this thread or played Eve in...well..years, but are Goons seriously making the argument that zomg this is so unfair because someone is using out of game resources? Goons, led by a guy who hasn't logged in in...well..years, who supports his activities with a gaming website? Who tried (and failed) to create a gambling site? Who has made every possible effort to monetize his Eve notoriety and use that a position to lead an in-game coalition? Goons, who had a client hack which gave them access to very useful tools long before they existed in the official client?
Never change Goons!
But thank you for this post which is extremely interesting and insightful and from which I learned so much! |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
705
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 17:24:03 -
[363] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ridiculous in what what? Yes, IWI found a way to gain isk from players using a third party application. That is undeniable. You can't claim that the IWI site is not a third party application nor can you deny that without that application he'd not have been able to get all of the isk. If he were sitting around in game saying "if you give me isk I'll pay to kill the goons" there's absolutely no way he'd make trillions, and you know that full well.
I love how you're calling me ridiculous then you're going off to deny basic facts about how he makes his isk. Further you're then going down the "the tears" route. I'm not whining or crying about the breaches of the EULA, I'm calmly, rationally and logically pointing out the very real breaches of the EULA that exists and questioning why CCP chooses to ignore it.
And the fact that a third party application is used matters...why?
Could the imperium (or ANY alliance) exist and make the ISK it does without third party applications to organize(voice comms, forums, etc.)? Could any of us play this game without zkillboard, tripwire, EFT, dotlan, etc.? No. Third party applications aren't a breach of the EULA. You're selectively picking one single 3rd party application because you don't like it. That's being nothing but ridiculous. Stop whining and find a way to beat him at his game.
Very little of your line of thought is rational or logical.
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
158
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 18:02:38 -
[364] - Quote
Lucas-
I admire your loyalty to your group, that's awesome. I think it's blinding you to what I'm trying to tell you though. I can't fight against spin nor do I wish to try. The prism of how you are viewing this is causing the distortion of what I'm trying to get across to you.
You are looking for mechanisms or mechanics to fight against IWI, that's not the approach I'm telling you about, it's the wrong approach entirely. As long as you keep looking there, you will not stand a chance.
My advice to you is simple, stop trying to attack IWI - regardless of their propaganda vs. Imperium propaganda - on that level. It's not a Propaganda fight other than the impact it has on player perception, which given how jaded and desperate for information (yes, normally two opposing forces) most of the player populace is, can be significant or worthless.
I don't know the Imperium leadership personally, I can't comment on what they put out, say they leak out, or otherwise say is true or not and THAT is their problem. They have so much past that is easily researched to show they can't be trusted. It's so bad that even loyal alliance mates appear to have left because of duplicity and lack of appropriate relationship reasons. The entire player base is WATCHING this unfold. It doesn't matter if it is TRUE or not, it is the prevailing perception they are fighting! That negative view cannot be countered by traditional propaganda techniques that the Imperium is currently employing.
You keep pointing out that people are buying IWI prop and ignoring Imperium prop. I'm telling you there is a reason for that. I am not a consumer of it either way, I don't really have a dog in the fight.
If you want the Imperium to go down fighting, not with ships, but to actually fight on the real war front of this war, you will find a way to smack the leadership across the face and tell them they need a 'Come to Jesus' moment, repent, repair and rebuild. Their other option would be to pack up, give everything to people that can DO that and leave the game. If that happens, Goonswarm could live on and rebuild/repair fences, and become part of the future. Their legacy would live on and such, but really, the Imperium problem is their own leadership... regardless if the propaganda about them is true or not. The perception is everything in this fight.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1107
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 19:35:51 -
[365] - Quote
Pandora, that's asking The Mittani not to be an egotistical *******. That is something he is incapable of.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3484
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 19:39:13 -
[366] - Quote
Johnny ReeRee wrote:I haven't read this thread or played Eve in...well..years, but are Goons seriously making the argument that zomg this is so unfair because someone is using out of game resources? Goons, led by a guy who hasn't logged in in...well..years, who supports his activities with a gaming website? Who tried (and failed) to create a gambling site? Who has made every possible effort to monetize his Eve notoriety and use that a position to lead an in-game coalition? Goons, who had a client hack which gave them access to very useful tools long before they existed in the official client?
Never change Goons!
But thank you for this post which is extremely interesting and insightful and from which I learned so much!
Lucas' rants are about as relevant to 'goon opinion' as visiting Louisiana and asking the locals about US foreign policy. The closest you'll get to any understanding on it, is that we tried to make our own gambling site and got it badly wrong.
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 19:47:06 -
[367] - Quote
Johnny ReeRee wrote:I haven't read this thread or played Eve in...well..years, but are Goons seriously making the argument that zomg this is so unfair because someone is using out of game resources? Goons, led by a guy who hasn't logged in in...well..years, who supports his activities with a gaming website? Who tried (and failed) to create a gambling site? Who has made every possible effort to monetize his Eve notoriety and use that a position to lead an in-game coalition? Goons, who had a client hack which gave them access to very useful tools long before they existed in the official client? No, I as a non-goon and speaking as an individual with an opinion I've held for years am stating that having a third party application - that cannot be countered in any way by players in game - providing income to a player conveys an unfair benefit and as such should be covered by the EULA clause against exactly that. Whether it's used against goons is irrelevant, no group could fight against it because regular players are playing by regular rules and the game is designed in such a way that regular mechanics have counters.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:And the fact that a third party application is used matters...why? Uhh, because the EULA explicitly disallows the use of third party application with give an unfair benefit to players? That's like saying "but why does it matter if I use a bot".
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Could the imperium (or ANY alliance) exist and make the ISK it does without third party applications to organize(voice comms, forums, etc.)? Could any of us play this game without zkillboard, tripwire, EFT, dotlan, etc.? No. Third party applications aren't a breach of the EULA. You're selectively picking one single 3rd party application because you don't like it. That's being nothing but ridiculous. No, I'm not singling out the 3rd party application because I don;t like it, I'm singling it out because it conveys and unfair in-game benefit while the others do not. Here, let me highlight the EULA clause for you.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. Kindly explain to me how his third party application allowing him to accumulate trillions of isk - in a way that has no in-game counter no less - is not facilitating the acquisition of currency at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary game play.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 19:54:00 -
[368] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I admire your loyalty to your group, that's awesome. I think it's blinding you to what I'm trying to tell you though. I can't fight against spin nor do I wish to try. The prism of how you are viewing this is causing the distortion of what I'm trying to get across to you.
You are looking for mechanisms or mechanics to fight against IWI, that's not the approach I'm telling you about, it's the wrong approach entirely. As long as you keep looking there, you will not stand a chance. Nope, you're just judging my opinions based on why you think I have them. This has nothing to do with the existing war and you are free to go back along my posting history to determine that this is in fact he same opinion I've always held. I'm not looking for any way to fight IWI, in this war, I have fully accepted the fact that an application that should have been banned long ago which has allowed a character to accrue game breaking levels of income will win any war since there's no way to counter it. Hell, I'm not even in the Imperium.
Pandora Carrollon wrote:You keep pointing out that people are buying IWI prop and ignoring Imperium prop. I'm telling you there is a reason for that. I am not a consumer of it either way, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I don't keep posting it, I told you once that the two examples you provided, which you claimed gave an overview of both sides were both from the same side of the war. What I'm saying is that if you are neutral you're really really bad at it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
601
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 20:12:07 -
[369] - Quote
In-game counter to IWI:
Create an in-game competitor.
The richest coalition in the game could easily have subsidised their own gambling website variant - offering massively increased percentages to win for their clients and thus stealing away his playerbase and income*
But they didn't. RIP.
Alternatively, create a Gamblers Anonymous and RP the hell out of it with the Emperor's decree etc....
*well I know they tried
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1108
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 20:13:31 -
[370] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Kindly explain to me how his third party application allowing him to accumulate trillions of isk - in a way that has no in-game counter no less - is not facilitating the acquisition of currency at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary game play.
Because the out of game app isn't acquiring the isk. Players are. Which is why IWI has bankers, they log into the game and move money around AS PLAYERS, because an automated system doing that would break the rules. The gambling site isn't gathering any isk, players are literally sending it to IWI. Do you want to remove the isk donation option from EVE? Pull a runescape and require all trades be "equal" in value?
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 20:21:41 -
[371] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:In-game counter to IWI:
Create an in-game competitor.
The richest coalition in the game could easily have subsidised their own gambling website variant - offering massively increased percentages to win for their clients and thus stealing away his playerbase and income*
But they didn't. RIP. Well that's not an in-game counter, that's an out of game counter.
Aiwha wrote:Because the out of game app isn't acquiring the isk. Players are. Which is why IWI has bankers, they log into the game and move money around AS PLAYERS, because an automated system doing that would break the rules. The gambling site isn't gathering any isk, players are literally sending it to IWI. Do you want to remove the isk donation option from EVE? Pull a runescape and require all trades be "equal" in value? Oh OK, so a market bot is fine too then is it? I can go ahead and set up market bots in every region because it's not the application making me isk, it's all the players buying and selling goods while I maintain constant market dominance?
The thing is the fact that one player is throwing trillions of isk made from a third party application into a war and outclassing a 40,000 character coalitions income solo is categoric proof that it's allowing income at a rate far beyond what can be achieved by "ordinary gameplay".
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
904
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 20:38:46 -
[372] - Quote
Comparing IWI to a Market bot (or any bot) is laughable. Bots automate gameplay, if you think IWI is automating anything in game then you would have a case for it breaking the EULA.
IWI does the same thing as all the isk doublers you see in the trade hubs, its just on a larger scale and with a fancy website. They make their isk by persuading gullible players to donate them isk on a promise that they might get more isk back.
Whilst personally I would ban all gambling, fake or real everywhere on the planet if I could. It doesn't break the EULA (as long as they don't go all RMT like most of them seem to) |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 20:49:49 -
[373] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Comparing IWI to a Market bot (or any bot) is laughable. Bots automate gameplay, if you think IWI is automating anything in game then you would have a case for it breaking the EULA. Sure I would but that doesn't mean I don't still have a point. I made that comparison because supposedly if it's not actually generating isk and it's coming from players, using a third party application to make loads of isk is fine, right?
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:IWI does the same thing as all the isk doublers you see in the trade hubs, its just on a larger scale and with a fancy website. They make their isk by persuading gullible players to donate them isk on a promise that they might get more isk back. Then you agree, the third party application allows him to do this at a rate unachievable by "ordinary gameplay"?
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Whilst personally I would ban all gambling, fake or real everywhere on the planet if I could. It doesn't break the EULA (as long as they don't go all RMT like most of them seem to) Nosy had some good stats on that showing how unlikely it is that the's no institutional RMT at IWI. There's no way for CCP to track if there is either. It's funny though, because if you make a site for a bank, and allow players to put money in and transfer it to other players within the bank who then draw it out, you'll get your site (and/or accounts) shut down because you're allowing ISK transactions that don't show up on CCPs logs. Strangely that too is a rule that seems to not apply to gambling sites.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1108
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 20:53:40 -
[374] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eli Apol wrote:In-game counter to IWI:
Create an in-game competitor.
The richest coalition in the game could easily have subsidised their own gambling website variant - offering massively increased percentages to win for their clients and thus stealing away his playerbase and income*
But they didn't. RIP. Well that's not an in-game counter, that's an out of game counter. Aiwha wrote:Because the out of game app isn't acquiring the isk. Players are. Which is why IWI has bankers, they log into the game and move money around AS PLAYERS, because an automated system doing that would break the rules. The gambling site isn't gathering any isk, players are literally sending it to IWI. Do you want to remove the isk donation option from EVE? Pull a runescape and require all trades be "equal" in value? Oh OK, so a market bot is fine too then is it? I can go ahead and set up market bots in every region because it's not the application making me isk, it's all the players buying and selling goods while I maintain constant market dominance? The thing is the fact that one player is throwing trillions of isk made from a third party application into a war and outclassing a 40,000 character coalitions income solo is categoric proof that it's allowing income at a rate far beyond what can be achieved by "ordinary gameplay".
Which the site does not do. IWI has players who setup all the in-game transactions. Contracts, payouts, ect. All done by hand. All ingame transactions are between players, not bots ore third party programs.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
904
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 21:08:48 -
[375] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Sure I would but that doesn't mean I don't still have a point. I made that comparison because supposedly if it's not actually generating isk and it's coming from players, using a third party application to make loads of isk is fine, right? You have no point. IWI is not comparable with any bot programs.
Lucas Kell wrote:Then you agree, the third party application allows him to do this at a rate unachievable by "ordinary gameplay"? Players donating isk to the in game corp of IWI is ordinary gameplay. If SMA mailled all its members to ask for a donation to assist with it's move to a new home no-one would think SMA was breaking the EULA. Donations of isk between player/corps and alliances is an in game option.
As far as I'm aware there is no cap on the amount of isk donations any entity can receive in Eve and since isk donations are coded into the game, its a huge leap to think isk donations are going to break the EULA. |
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
218
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 21:14:41 -
[376] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:Because the out of game app isn't acquiring the isk. Players are. Which is why IWI has bankers, they log into the game and move money around AS PLAYERS, because an automated system doing that would break the rules. The gambling site isn't gathering any isk, players are literally sending it to IWI. Do you want to remove the isk donation option from EVE? Pull a runescape and require all trades be "equal" in value? Oh OK, so a market bot is fine too then is it? I can go ahead and set up market bots in every region because it's not the application making me isk, it's all the players buying and selling goods while I maintain constant market dominance?
Did you literally just not read any of the paragraph you quoted? I'm getting the sense that you didn't, because if you had, you wouldn't have persisted in comparing IWI (or any in-game casino) to a market bot.
Quote:The thing is the fact that one player is throwing trillions of isk made from a third party application into a war and outclassing a 40,000 character coalitions income solo is categoric proof that it's allowing income at a rate far beyond what can be achieved by "ordinary gameplay".
You keep repeating this in such a way that you seem to be hoping you're going to shout down everyone else. Let me suggest something to you. File a formal petition to CCP to get to get casinos shut down. State your case, laying out your reading of their EULA. See what kind of answer you get, if any. Because in the end, it's not what any of us think about the issue; it's what CCP thinks. They've already investigated IWI for RMT and apparently did not find any wrongdoing, but if you believe so fervently that the situation with casinos as a whole is so unfair, it can't hurt to take a wider approach.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 21:16:41 -
[377] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:You have no point. IWI is not comparable with any bot programs. And yet both facilitate the acquisition of isk at a faster rate than normal gameplay.
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Players donating isk to the in game corp of IWI is ordinary gameplay. If SMA mailled all its members to ask for a donation to assist with it's move to a new home no-one would think SMA was breaking the EULA. Donations of isk between player/corps and alliances is an in game option.
As far as I'm aware there is no cap on the amount of isk donations any entity can receive in Eve and since isk donations are coded into the game, its a huge leap to think isk donations are going to break the EULA. Except it's not just donations is it. If he were sitting around in game with no third party application asking people to send him isk, he'd not be earning trillions. The thing that allows him to gain isk at an accelerated rate when compared to normal gameplay is the site. To clarify, if CCP choose to block gambling sites from existing, I have no problem with him or anyone else sitting in Jita asking people to donate to them, since that is in fact normal gameplay.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 21:34:02 -
[378] - Quote
Surely all the IWI thing has showed is that goons, for all their blustering, didn't have the finances to fight a reasonable defence. One guy with a website was able to make enough to outclass you guys. It shows that ISK is more powerful in eve than people had thought, a sensible alliance might use it's reputation to create a investment programme that would let it skim profit from many players. It seems that to defend against these types of things properly alliances need to be focused on having the isk in their coffers to buy the allies they need.
Also the whole tactic of, let them capture whole regions in days, was not very clever. I don't know who thought that one up, all it did was build momentum and now many more people think there's a chance of wiping out goons. If you'd just formed a solid defend initially you'd have out off a lot of the people who jumped on the bandwagon
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
165
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 21:58:34 -
[379] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Nope, you're just judging my opinions based on why you think I have them. This has nothing to do with the existing war and you are free to go back along my posting history to determine that this is in fact he same opinion I've always held. I'm not looking for any way to fight IWI, in this war, I have fully accepted the fact that an application that should have been banned long ago which has allowed a character to accrue game breaking levels of income will win any war since there's no way to counter it. Hell, I'm not even in the Imperium.
Okay, I'll take you at your word then. Perhaps it is me misinterpreting you but I'm not seeing what I missed.
Lucas Kell wrote:I don't keep posting it, I told you once that the two examples you provided, which you claimed gave an overview of both sides were both from the same side of the war. What I'm saying is that if you are neutral you're really really bad at it.
No, being critical of the Imperium and not criticizing IWI does NOT mean I am not neutral. I don't really have any criticisms of IWI as they have been doing their side of the fight mostly correctly. I am not seeing ANY posts by Imperium Leadership hinting that they even understand or comprehend the reason they are losing the perception war to the degree necessary to stop the negative perception and reverse the tide. If they do understand it and are just not taking the proper actions, then that speaks volumes as well.
If that *IS* your analysis as well, then you and I are on the same page and we can agree to agree and I apologize for misinterpreting your posts. If you disagree, then telling me I am misinterpreting you isn't helping explain your point(s), I am just not seeing how your POV has changed from it being hopeless and impossible to 'attack' IWI to 'yeah, there is a way but it will never happen' (which is at this point almost moot).
If I am biased, it would be toward helping The Imperium (or what's left of it) put up a fight on the right front in the right avenue of attack. I kind of hate seeing an institution like the Goons/SMA etc. go down so hard without realizing what's choking them to death. I suppose if we are past that point and all of this is moot, I apologize for the Monday morning analysis if that is the case and the war is over.
I strictly state that I am not attacking you or the SMA or Goons or anyone. I'm sorry if it came across that way, it was not intended.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan
Morning Star Expeditionary Force
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 22:00:14 -
[380] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:By hard you really mean impossible. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I'm pretty sure convincing the entire EVE playerbase to not do something isn't actually possible.
Not impossible at all, if anything you guys have proven the opposite. The CFC and it's leadership has convinced thousands of past and present players to hate them, hence the grrrgoons!
How does it go again..... Oh that's right, "We're not here to ruin the game, we're here to ruin your game".
It's like a Burn Jita event but instead it's Deklein, it's great and I for one will continue to use IWI just to contribute to it. The sooner the Goons are gone the better. It's sooooo exciting.
btw, Imperium tears are delicious to see on the forums, mmmmm scrummy. |
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
165
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 22:16:17 -
[381] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Pandora, that's asking The Mittani not to be an egotistical *******. That is something he is incapable of.
Honestly, I have never met him I don't know if he is or isn't what others say he is. I have read many of his comments and posts. Some seem fair and even handed, other actions... well, don't look so great on him. Then again, I don't know what was going on in his life or all the circumstances leading up to the given comment.
People are creatures of context, we live in the context of the moment. Our decisions, what we say or do is in that moment.
Good people can have tendencies to be jerks. They can fight with it on a daily basis. It doesn't mean they don't have consciences or aren't truly good people inside. It can mean, at the moment they open their mouths, do something, or react, the 'jerk inside' won out. I could quantify myself as such a person, many if not most could. We all have our personal demons.
Now, some people don't fight it, don't care and don't even see other people as mattering at all in their lives other than to provide them with self esteem. They don't care how they are perceived and just live for the moment and blow off any criticism of others, finding excuses in everything they do, especially for failures. I'm not going to call such a person 'bad' as that is more of a function of actions not words, but I will say that very few of them end up with good, enduring legacies that others want to emulate.
I think it is possible for any intelligent person to find a better path in life. They are only truly lost when they lose the ability to self critique. If that happens, it's pretty much over for them.
I have no idea where the person in question is on the path of life, what matters is how much he wants to turn this conflict around and claw out some form of victory even if small or if it's all just going to be blamed on others.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 22:17:52 -
[382] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:No, being critical of the Imperium and not criticizing IWI does NOT mean I am not neutral. I don't really have any criticisms of IWI as they have been doing their side of the fight mostly correctly. I am not seeing ANY posts by Imperium Leadership hinting that they even understand or comprehend the reason they are losing the perception war to the degree necessary to stop the negative perception and reverse the tide. If they do understand it and are just not taking the proper actions, then that speaks volumes as well. I don;t disagree that not criticizing IWI doesn't necessarily make you not neutral, but surely you can understand that you saying "Here is what players see from both sides" then stating the MBC view of itself and the MBC propaganda of goons is not at all neutral. You can't compare a polished statement from one side and a bunch of leaked logs specifically cut to be out of context by the enemy and expect people to take your neutrality seriously.
Pandora Carrollon wrote:If that *IS* your analysis as well, then you and I are on the same page and we can agree to agree and I apologize for misinterpreting your posts. If you disagree, then telling me I am misinterpreting you isn't helping explain your point(s), I am just not seeing how your POV has changed from it being hopeless and impossible to 'attack' IWI to 'yeah, there is a way but it will never happen' (which is at this point almost moot). My point remains that there is no in-game counter to a third party application like that. Regardless of whether or not the target is goons, no alliance could compete with something like that. You saying "there is but I'm not saying what, slap your leadership" is not exactly convincing, especially since you seem to have not noticed that I'm not an Imperium member.
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:How does it go again..... Oh that's right, "We're not here to ruin the game, we're here to ruin your game". It's like a Burn Jita event but instead it's Deklein, it's great and I for one will continue to use IWI just to contribute to it. The sooner the Goons are gone the better. It's sooooo exciting. So translation "EULA breaking gameplay is fin as long as I benefit from it". Effectively you upset that goons used in-game mechanics to gank whatever highsec ship it was you were flying and so you'll back literally anything that would seem to give you a one up. Gotcha. Marking your opinions as irrelevant.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
218
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 22:31:40 -
[383] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:How does it go again..... Oh that's right, "We're not here to ruin the game, we're here to ruin your game". It's like a Burn Jita event but instead it's Deklein, it's great and I for one will continue to use IWI just to contribute to it. The sooner the Goons are gone the better. It's sooooo exciting. So translation "EULA breaking gameplay is fin as long as I benefit from it". Effectively you upset that goons used in-game mechanics to gank whatever highsec ship it was you were flying and so you'll back literally anything that would seem to give you a one up. Gotcha. Marking your opinions as irrelevant.
But until you petition CCP for a final answer on whether your interpretation of the EULA is correct, you have no basis to state that IWI is afoul of the EULA.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
165
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 22:32:47 -
[384] - Quote
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:By hard you really mean impossible. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I'm pretty sure convincing the entire EVE playerbase to not do something isn't actually possible. Not impossible at all, if anything you guys have proven the opposite. The CFC and it's leadership has convinced thousands of past and present players to hate them, hence the grrrgoons! How does it go again..... Oh that's right, "We're not here to ruin the game, we're here to ruin your game".
Yeah, but it just as well could have been CODE and James 315. The means to that end may be different, but the end result for players that don't care what other players game experiences will likely be the same.
Who knows, CODE could be next.
It's entirely possible that IWI has found a way to gather new 'players' to them by dividing the players that are Destroyers at Heart vs. those that are Builders at Heart.
If true, this is indeed a watershed moment for the game as it would formalize a large scale war fighting 'cause' in those two sides. However, I'm pretty sure that IWI wouldn't be as successful against a large group that didn't have a strongly disliked leadership or operating strategy. So on that aspect I think you're spot on the mark.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 22:42:24 -
[385] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:But until you petition CCP for a final answer on whether your interpretation of the EULA is correct, you have no basis to state that IWI is afoul of the EULA. Sure, not by CCPs interpretation but I can certainly point out why I believe it is. I honestly can't think of any way using no third party tools that anyone could acquire that much isk, so have absolutely no doubt that the site allows the acquisition of ISK at a faster than that normal gameplay, and so can't see why it wouldn't be against the EULA.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
218
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 22:52:32 -
[386] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:But until you petition CCP for a final answer on whether your interpretation of the EULA is correct, you have no basis to state that IWI is afoul of the EULA. Sure, not by CCPs interpretation but I can certainly point out why I believe it is. I honestly can't think of any way using no third party tools that anyone could acquire that much isk, so have absolutely no doubt that the site allows the acquisition of ISK at a faster than that normal gameplay, and so can't see why it wouldn't be against the EULA.
And you have pointed it out in this thread -- repeatedly.
You'd think that even after such events as the Somer Blink fiasco and the aforementioned dustup between SMA and IWI which resulted in the banning and subsequent unbanning of a number of IWI's bankers, that CCP would have shut down casino operations by now. Yet they have not. I ask again why you don't petition them formally and lay out your case, and see if they give you a a ruling on the matter? Since it's a topic that seems to hit close to home to you, why not do that instead of cry about it on the forums?
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
165
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 22:52:58 -
[387] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I don;t disagree that not criticizing IWI doesn't necessarily make you not neutral, but surely you can understand that you saying "Here is what players see from both sides" then stating the MBC view of itself and the MBC propaganda of goons is not at all neutral. You can't compare a polished statement from one side and a bunch of leaked logs specifically cut to be out of context by the enemy and expect people to take your neutrality seriously.
Okay, uh, I never said that's what all players see or can see. I've said that player perception is driven by stuff that is illustrated by the attitudes displayed in those two bits of 'propaganda'. It's the ATTITUDE and HISTORY of the different sides of the leaderships that are driving the success and failure of the war. You can't change history, but you can change attitude.
Lucas Kell wrote:My point remains that there is no in-game counter to a third party application like that. Regardless of whether or not the target is goons, no alliance could compete with something like that.
Then you have pretty much missed what I and others have been saying or just don't care what we are saying. Your point is an opinion. Myself and others have been trying to illustrate to you how it can be attacked and done successfully in our opinions. We can't change your opinion, I'm going to stop trying now, so take that as a victory if you like, but just because you can't see how it can't be done, doesn't mean it can't.
Lucas Kell wrote:saying "there is but I'm not saying what, slap your leadership" is not exactly convincing, especially since you seem to have not noticed that I'm not an Imperium member. Your current status as being in or out of the Imperium or allied with them is not relevant. It's your apparent support of their claims that appears to make you sided with them. Then again, none of that is relevant, only your previous 'point'. I'm only ruffling your feathers at this juncture, for which I apologize. I actually admire your posts in many ways.
So, I've said my say, my position is moderately clear as mud. I'll step out of the mess and let it rage on elsewise.
I appreciate everyone's patience with me. Thanks for letting me play along.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan
Morning Star Expeditionary Force
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 23:06:26 -
[388] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So translation "EULA breaking gameplay is fin as long as I benefit from it". Effectively you upset that goons used in-game mechanics to gank whatever highsec ship it was you were flying and so you'll back literally anything that would seem to give you a one up. Gotcha. Marking your opinions as irrelevant.
Hahaha that's a slightly whiney response, I've never been ganked by a Goon, Code or anyone for that matter (see for yourself on my KB, but then I am an alt!). Surely if the people using IWI are breaking the EULA then we would see the ban hammer? But alas we're not......Maybe CCP are sick of you lot too, oh yeah they are, FozzySov proves that.
My main was in FCON for a good few years, but I left 30plus because of the diatribe I'd hear in comms and posted on various 'in house' media from degenerate Goons.
But keep all the excuses coming, you might want to re-read through these posts as no one is listening to you, most people hate The Goons for one reason or another and a space monkey wont change peoples perspective on it, there's too much history.
So please more salty goodness.... |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1457
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 23:07:35 -
[389] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:But until you petition CCP for a final answer on whether your interpretation of the EULA is correct, you have no basis to state that IWI is afoul of the EULA. Sure, not by CCPs interpretation but I can certainly point out why I believe it is. I honestly can't think of any way using no third party tools that anyone could acquire that much isk, so have absolutely no doubt that the site allows the acquisition of ISK at a faster than that normal gameplay, and so can't see why it wouldn't be against the EULA.
Gambling sites have been around for years, CCP is well aware of them and is condoning or even endorsing them by providing sponsorship or positive mentions. Nothing about this is currently against the EULA and if CCP thought there was some sort of problem with it the entire gambling niche would have been banned after the SOMER Blink fiasco.
Between full on market traders and incursion runners, a single guy running a gambling site is hardly something that jumps out. Trillions upon trillions can be made by any clever player who is willing to put in the time and effort. And make no mistake, running a site like that and managing all the people working for it is no easy task. I'd say it's many times harder than making trillions station trading or running incursions. God knows especially the latter is so easy even TEST could do it.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
706
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 23:18:39 -
[390] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, I'm not singling out the 3rd party application because I don;t like it, I'm singling it out because it conveys and unfair in-game benefit while the others do not. Here, let me highlight the EULA clause for you.
You absolutely are.
Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.
Kindly explain to me how his third party application allowing him to accumulate trillions of isk - in a way that has no in-game counter no less - is not facilitating the acquisition of currency at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary game play.
When his website falls into that category, we can talk. He isn't using macros, he isn't using software that improves gameplay. People are volunteering to donate him money. The website doesn't make it any easier to do that. The website doesn't make gameplay any easier.
He accumulated that isk because people chose to give it to him. Should minerbumping.com be brought down because they have accumulated so much isk through 'share purchases'?
Lucas Kell wrote:Oh OK, so a market bot is fine too then is it? I can go ahead and set up market bots in every region because it's not the application making me isk, it's all the players buying and selling goods while I maintain constant market dominance?
You should really read the EULA Lucas. Market bots mean a person isn't physically placing orders and moving money in game. IWI has actually players doing 100% of the work with 100% of the ISK gained in game.
Lucas Kell wrote:And yet both facilitate the acquisition of isk at a faster rate than normal gameplay.
You keep using that term. Please define 'normal gameplay' for us |
|
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
138
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 23:54:11 -
[391] - Quote
The problem here is that IWI has no loyalty. They can fund any war they want, switch sides at any time, and pretty much just act in their own interests. The counter to them in part is educating the players of this, and hoping to get the message across to CCP somehow (CSM?) that this is very hard to counter for anyone.
I mean at the moment everyone is so happy that the Goons are getting their butts kicked, but when IWI is done with them who do you think will be next? Will IWI just say "oh well that was fun, I think I'll just stop now," no one is safe. They have no allegiances correct? So in light of that IWI is extremely dangerous and untrustworthy. Why can't anyone else see this??? |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1109
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 23:56:47 -
[392] - Quote
Then don't give them your money.
Goons had fucktons of untouchable income for years in the form of tech moons.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 00:20:34 -
[393] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:And you have pointed it out in this thread -- repeatedly.
You'd think that even after such events as the Somer Blink fiasco and the aforementioned dustup between SMA and IWI which resulted in the banning and subsequent unbanning of a number of IWI's bankers, that CCP would have shut down casino operations by now. Yet they have not. I ask again why you don't petition them formally and lay out your case, and see if they give you a a ruling on the matter? Since it's a topic that seems to hit close to home to you, why not do that instead of cry about it on the forums? You're suggesting I haven't? Nobody here is crying.
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:Hahaha that's a slightly whiney response, I've never been ganked by a Goon, Code or anyone for that matter (see for yourself on my KB, but then I am an alt!). Surely if the people using IWI are breaking the EULA then we would see the ban hammer? But alas we're not......Maybe CCP are sick of you lot too, oh yeah they are, FozzySov proves that. Whiney? In what way? You;'re babbling on about Burn Jita like in means a damn thing then rolling don the route of "can't wait for the end of goons HAHAHA ALL THE TEARS" which is classic defensive crap from highsec gank victims. Calling everything tears doesn't actually make it so it just makes you look desperate.
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:as no one is listening to you Clearly they are otherwise there would be so many posts direct at me.
TigerXtrm wrote:Gambling sites have been around for years, CCP is well aware of them and is condoning or even endorsing them by providing sponsorship or positive mentions. Nothing about this is currently against the EULA and if CCP thought there was some sort of problem with it the entire gambling niche would have been banned after the SOMER Blink fiasco.
Between full on market traders and incursion runners, a single guy running a gambling site is hardly something that jumps out. Trillions upon trillions can be made by any clever player who is willing to put in the time and effort. And make no mistake, running a site like that and managing all the people working for it is no easy task. I'd say it's many times harder than making trillions station trading or running incursions. God knows especially the latter is so easy even TEST could do it. So explain exactly why you think that IWI which is undeniably a third party application, which allows the owner to acquire isk at a faster rate than normal gameplay isn't covered by the EULA clause covering exactly that? And often CCP don't act all the time there's no light being shined on things.
And sure, there's other ways to make trillions, usually with a whole heap of work over a long period of time and still it's all dwarfed by a guy running a third party application. Not to mention that every single one of those in-gmae mechanics can be affected and attacked by players using in-game methods while IWI cannot. And I didn't state it was an easy task, I'm sure running 200 bots isn't an easy task, yet that's still banned. Just because it takes effort doesn't change whether it's right or not to allow it.
At the end of the day, I still see this as a third party app that allows a player to effectively win EVE by have a completely uncounterable method of gaining more isk that even whole alliances can make. A lot of people are happy with it now because their target is goons and they don't like goons, but that doesn't make it right to allow it. There's no point in other players even trying to compete with that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Wanda Fayne
171
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 00:25:30 -
[394] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote: He accumulated that isk because people chose to give it to him. Should minerbumping.com be brought down because they have accumulated so much isk through 'share purchases'?
Pretty much sums it up right there.
If I did a facebook or youtube site asking for ISK donations, and managed to get trillions, would that make me bannable too? Better shut down anyone who has a donation box on their Eve fansite; by Lucas standards you are breaking the rulez |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 00:34:58 -
[395] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:You absolutely are. Wrong.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:When his website falls into that category, we can talk. He isn't using macros, he isn't using software that improves gameplay. People are volunteering to donate him money. The website doesn't make it any easier to do that. The website doesn't make gameplay any easier. So you are saying that if he didn't use that software and just did it in game, he would be able to acquire isk at the same rate he does now? I don't believe you, because that's obviously wrong.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:He accumulated that isk because people chose to give it to him. Should minerbumping.com be brought down because they have accumulated so much isk through 'share purchases'? Since their share purchases are generally done on the forum, probably not. There's a slight difference between volumes of isk able to be made between the sites though, since minerbumping is literally just a blog, while IWI is a full web application. If anything minerbmping shows more realistically how little IWI would make if it really didn't use a third party app to acquire all that isk.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:You should really read the EULA Lucas. Market bots mean a person isn't physically placing orders and moving money in game. IWI has actually players doing 100% of the work with 100% of the ISK gained in game. No, you really need to read the EULA. The rule is that third party applications may not facilitate the acquisition of items or currency at an accelerated rate compared to normal play. At no point does it state that it needs to be automated for it to be classed as bannable.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:You keep using that term. Please define 'normal gameplay' for us Really? Log into the client full screen and don't use any outside tools or websites. Tada, everything you are looking at is "normal gameplay".
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 00:36:58 -
[396] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Goons had fucktons of untouchable income for years in the form of tech moons. They weren't untouchable, they were simply defended. That's completely different (though it's still a very good thing that CCP balanced that all out).
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Wexiz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 00:42:52 -
[397] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote: He accumulated that isk because people chose to give it to him. Should minerbumping.com be brought down because they have accumulated so much isk through 'share purchases'?
Pretty much sums it up right there. If I did a facebook or youtube site asking for ISK donations, and managed to get trillions, would that make me bannable too? Better shut down anyone who has a donation box on their Eve fansite; by Lucas standards you are breaking the rulez
If you get trillions of ISK, what would you do with it?
If you converted it somehow into real currency then I would think it's breaking the rules.
It's a bit dodgy anyway as you could give it away in-game and those that you give it to could effectively pay you real currency for it outside of the game. |
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
443
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 00:45:36 -
[398] - Quote
What I see in this here thread are people, Lucas Kell being the foremost, repetitively complaining, or at least, explaining or trying to, and being very vocal about it, that IWI are breaching the EULA. Ad nauseam. For 20 pages.
In their opinion.
And yet, CCP stance seems to be that it is NOT breaching the EULA.
CCP being the final autorithy on the matter, why is this still going on? For another 20 pages? Seriously.
Sneaky bastard.
|
Wanda Fayne
171
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 00:54:35 -
[399] - Quote
Wexiz wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote: He accumulated that isk because people chose to give it to him. Should minerbumping.com be brought down because they have accumulated so much isk through 'share purchases'?
Pretty much sums it up right there. If I did a facebook or youtube site asking for ISK donations, and managed to get trillions, would that make me bannable too? Better shut down anyone who has a donation box on their Eve fansite; by Lucas standards you are breaking the rulez If you get trillions of ISK, what would you do with it? If you converted it somehow into real currency then I would think it's breaking the rules. It's a bit dodgy anyway as you could give it away in-game and those that you give it to could effectively pay you real currency for it outside of the game.
wat
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
219
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 01:17:04 -
[400] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:And you have pointed it out in this thread -- repeatedly.
You'd think that even after such events as the Somer Blink fiasco and the aforementioned dustup between SMA and IWI which resulted in the banning and subsequent unbanning of a number of IWI's bankers, that CCP would have shut down casino operations by now. Yet they have not. I ask again why you don't petition them formally and lay out your case, and see if they give you a a ruling on the matter? Since it's a topic that seems to hit close to home to you, why not do that instead of cry about it on the forums? You're suggesting I haven't?
So you have done so, and you received no response at all, or they told you that casinos are not a breach of the EULA, or they simply said "Thank you for your concern; we will look into this matter" or some other noncommittal gesture. Ok.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
|
Wexiz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 01:23:44 -
[401] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:And you have pointed it out in this thread -- repeatedly.
You'd think that even after such events as the Somer Blink fiasco and the aforementioned dustup between SMA and IWI which resulted in the banning and subsequent unbanning of a number of IWI's bankers, that CCP would have shut down casino operations by now. Yet they have not. I ask again why you don't petition them formally and lay out your case, and see if they give you a a ruling on the matter? Since it's a topic that seems to hit close to home to you, why not do that instead of cry about it on the forums? You're suggesting I haven't? So you have done so, and you received no response at all, or they told you that casinos are not a breach of the EULA, or they simply said "Thank you for your concern; we will look into this matter" or some other noncommittal gesture. Ok.
Not been in the captain's cabin for sometime, but casinos used to be advertised on the screen which would have been before the changes to the bounty system. Back then a lot of the most wanted characters were connected with casinos. So they were tolerated at least in the past. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
711
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 02:16:32 -
[402] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So you are saying that if he didn't use that software and just did it in game, he would be able to acquire isk at the same rate he does now? I don't believe you, because that's obviously wrong.
Not a single ISK has been generated by the website. 100% of it was generated inside the game through donations to players. Are you honestly going to disagree with that?
Quote:Since their share purchases are generally done on the forum, probably not. There's a slight difference between volumes of isk able to be made between the sites though, since minerbumping is literally just a blog, while IWI is a full web application. If anything minerbmping shows more realistically how little IWI would make if it really didn't use a third party app to acquire all that isk.
So now we're arguing semantics? Come on Lukey. One more time you are selectively choosing the 3rd party apps you like. Both IWI and minerbumping get ISK purely through donations. They are literally the same thing. They both use the social/meta side of the game to convince people to give them ISK. You do realize there is more to EVE than simply blowing up spaceships, right?
Quote:No, you really need to read the EULA. The rule is that third party applications may not facilitate the acquisition of items or currency at an accelerated rate compared to normal play. At no point does it state that it needs to be automated for it to be classed as bannable.
Direct question, how much ISK was generated by IWI's website? How much was generated outside of direct transactions between real players actively playing EVE inside the game? Give me an exact number? (hint, it's zero)
Quote:Really? Log into the client full screen and don't use any outside tools or websites. Tada, everything you are looking at is "normal gameplay".
So you agree with me then. Great! Exactly zero ISK has traded hands to IWI outside of real players donating isk to themselves inside the game.
I honestly can't tell if you're one of the better trolls of all time, or if you actually believe what you write... |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
905
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 06:08:53 -
[403] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:You keep using that term. Please define 'normal gameplay' for us Really? Log into the client full screen and don't use any outside tools or websites. Tada, everything you are looking at is "normal gameplay". So, using the give isk option is normal gameplay.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7471
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 07:07:52 -
[404] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:You keep using that term. Please define 'normal gameplay' for us Really? Log into the client full screen and don't use any outside tools or websites. Tada, everything you are looking at is "normal gameplay". So, using the give isk option is normal gameplay.
Dude, your face!
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 07:12:10 -
[405] - Quote
Wexiz wrote:Not been in the captain's cabin for sometime, but casinos used to be advertised on the screen which would have been before the changes to the bounty system. Back then a lot of the most wanted characters were connected with casinos. So they were tolerated at least in the past. So was ISBoxer. Times change. Especially once it gets to the point that a normal player has no way of being competitive with in-game mechanics.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Not a single ISK has been generated by the website. 100% of it was generated inside the game through donations to players. Are you honestly going to disagree with that? N, I don;t, but the rules isnt; about generating isk, it's about acquiring isk. If it were only about generating isk there would be multiple tools like (like market bots for example) which would not be covered. Your inability to read the EULA is your problem.
Let me know when you have a half decent argument not based on your misunderstanding.
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:So, using the give isk option is normal gameplay. Indeed it is. So stop IWI from being allowed to use their site and let's see how much isk they acquire purely through asking for donations. I guarantee that without the third party application they can't acquire isk at the same rate, proving categorically that the application is what facilitates the acquisition of ISK.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
906
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 07:23:47 -
[406] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:You keep using that term. Please define 'normal gameplay' for us Really? Log into the client full screen and don't use any outside tools or websites. Tada, everything you are looking at is "normal gameplay". So, using the give isk option is normal gameplay. Dude, your face! I use copious amounts of 'Bumblefck's Luscious Luminous Mustachio Wax' on a daily basis
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1459
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 09:30:36 -
[407] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So explain exactly why you think that IWI which is undeniably a third party application, which allows the owner to acquire isk at a faster rate than normal gameplay isn't covered by the EULA clause covering exactly that? And often CCP don't act all the time there's no light being shined on things.
The main problem here is, once again, that people need to stop interpreting CCP's EULA for them. They wrote the damn thing, they enforce the damn thing, they don't need you or me or any of their paying players to tell them wat is and isn't against the EULA. If CCP tells you that something is okay to do, what is waving the EULA in their face going to accomplish? It's not the US constitution and CCP isn't a government body bound by the EULA they themselves wrote. They can ignore and cherry pick the EULA whenever they damn well please and the only people who should be worried about that is CCP's own internal affairs staff.
If you have an issue with something, make your case for it independently. Take it up with CCP, send in a ticket, send an e-mail, open a thread on the forum. But DON'T come in quoting the EULA as if it's somehow meant to limit what CCP can and can't do, because that's not what it's for. It's intended to limit what YOU can and can't do. And CCP is allowed to make exceptions all day long if they want.
As for IWI, I think it's amazing that things like this can exist in our little game world. What other game has gambling sites that allow you to use your game currency to play, win things, lose things? And in what other game is that gambling site ran by an actual player who can turn around and decide the course of a game's narrative for thousands of people? As a community we should be proud that initiatives like this exist, it's what makes EVE unique. The only thing it requires is that CCP keeps a close eye on it to make sure such sites aren't abused for RMT purposes.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 09:52:10 -
[408] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:The main problem here is, once again, that people need to stop interpreting CCP's EULA for them. They wrote the damn thing, they enforce the damn thing, they don't need you or me or any of their paying players to tell them wat is and isn't against the EULA. If CCP tells you that something is okay to do, what is waving the EULA in their face going to accomplish? It's not the US constitution and CCP isn't a government body bound by the EULA they themselves wrote. They can ignore and cherry pick the EULA whenever they damn well please and the only people who should be worried about that is CCP's own internal affairs staff.
If you have an issue with something, make your case for it independently. Take it up with CCP, send in a ticket, send an e-mail, open a thread on the forum. But DON'T come in quoting the EULA as if it's somehow meant to limit what CCP can and can't do, because that's not what it's for. It's intended to limit what YOU can and can't do. And CCP is allowed to make exceptions all day long if they want. I'm not interpreting their EULA for them. Like with many other situations I'm just calling it as I see it and it's up to CCP to decide if they want to act. You're right, they wrote their EULA so it's up to them to decide how to enforce it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still call that enforcement into question. It's through people pushing for change that progress is made.
TigerXtrm wrote:As for IWI, I think it's amazing that things like this can exist in our little game world. What other game has gambling sites that allow you to use your game currency to play, win things, lose things? And in what other game is that gambling site ran by an actual player who can turn around and decide the course of a game's narrative for thousands of people? As a community we should be proud that initiatives like this exist, it's what makes EVE unique. The only thing it requires is that CCP keeps a close eye on it to make sure such sites aren't abused for RMT purposes. Probably no other MMO does that, certainly not through a third party website, and that's because as is being demonstrated here it introduces game breaking levels of imbalance. What makes EVE unique is it's a powerfully competitive sandbox with less constricting and pandering rules. Competitive gets throws out of the window however when third party applications are allowed to be used to this extreme. Why would I be proud that a third pary application allows people to beat anyone playing the game through normal means? Are you proud of botters too as long as they don't RMT?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan
Morning Star Expeditionary Force
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 10:14:33 -
[409] - Quote
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:Hahaha that's a slightly whiney response, I've never been ganked by a Goon, Code or anyone for that matter (see for yourself on my KB, but then I am an alt!). Surely if the people using IWI are breaking the EULA then we would see the ban hammer? But alas we're not......Maybe CCP are sick of you lot too, oh yeah they are, FozzySov proves that.
Lucas Kell wrote: Whiney? In what way? You;'re babbling on about Burn Jita like in means a damn thing then rolling don the route of "can't wait for the end of goons HAHAHA ALL THE TEARS" which is classic defensive crap from highsec gank victims. Calling everything tears doesn't actually make it so it just makes you look desperate.
Whiney as in your first response to me was that I must have been ganked, highsec bear blah blah blah.....
You're either not reading responses or just playing the fool, I've never been ganked as previously stated, look at my KB. The reason I don't like the majority of the Goons is because my main was in FCON for a few years and had first hand experience to form my own opinion on the matter. I didn't need IWI to finance a war against them to make me jump on the grrrrgoons or grrrCFC bandwagon, I left 30+ because I couldn't stand to listen to them anymore. Once FCON gets it's own SOV now I'm sure the blue status will be reset as many of the people in alliance dislike goons for the same reasons but saw them as a necessary evil for the time being since they had prosperous systems.
Also I mentioned Burn Jita once in relation to the current burning of your space and how hilarious it is.
Lucas Kell wrote:Clearly they are otherwise there would be so many posts direct at me.
Probably the most realistic thing you've said (in part), and for that reason I've said all I want on the matter.
Cry me a river space monkey! |
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
219
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 11:03:42 -
[410] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I'm not interpreting their EULA for them. Like with many other situations I'm just calling it as I see it and it's up to CCP to decide if they want to act. You're right, they wrote their EULA so it's up to them to decide how to enforce it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still call that enforcement into question. It's through people pushing for change that progress is made.
That is all very noble on paper, but I would love to know for certain whether you have actually filed a formal ticket or petition with them about this. I don't even care to know about the answer, if any, because I understand that there may be rules about sharing private correspondence from CCP employees blah blah, that come into play.
I just want to know how committed to this you really are. Seriously, it seems to me that you're brown-nosing The Mittani more than anything else. He brought this up in one of his dispatches to the faithful sometime last week and you've been on a tear about it ever since.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
|
Speedkermit Damo
Hax. Abuse of Power.
492
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 11:04:52 -
[411] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:And you have pointed it out in this thread -- repeatedly.
You'd think that even after such events as the Somer Blink fiasco and the aforementioned dustup between SMA and IWI which resulted in the banning and subsequent unbanning of a number of IWI's bankers, that CCP would have shut down casino operations by now. Yet they have not. I ask again why you don't petition them formally and lay out your case, and see if they give you a a ruling on the matter? Since it's a topic that seems to hit close to home to you, why not do that instead of cry about it on the forums? You're suggesting I haven't? Nobody here is crying. Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:Hahaha that's a slightly whiney response, I've never been ganked by a Goon, Code or anyone for that matter (see for yourself on my KB, but then I am an alt!). Surely if the people using IWI are breaking the EULA then we would see the ban hammer? But alas we're not......Maybe CCP are sick of you lot too, oh yeah they are, FozzySov proves that. Whiney? In what way? You;'re babbling on about Burn Jita like in means a damn thing then rolling don the route of "can't wait for the end of goons HAHAHA ALL THE TEARS" which is classic defensive crap from highsec gank victims. Calling everything tears doesn't actually make it so it just makes you look desperate. Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:as no one is listening to you Clearly they are otherwise there would be so many posts direct at me. TigerXtrm wrote:Gambling sites have been around for years, CCP is well aware of them and is condoning or even endorsing them by providing sponsorship or positive mentions. Nothing about this is currently against the EULA and if CCP thought there was some sort of problem with it the entire gambling niche would have been banned after the SOMER Blink fiasco.
Between full on market traders and incursion runners, a single guy running a gambling site is hardly something that jumps out. Trillions upon trillions can be made by any clever player who is willing to put in the time and effort. And make no mistake, running a site like that and managing all the people working for it is no easy task. I'd say it's many times harder than making trillions station trading or running incursions. God knows especially the latter is so easy even TEST could do it. So explain exactly why you think that IWI which is undeniably a third party application, which allows the owner to acquire isk at a faster rate than normal gameplay isn't covered by the EULA clause covering exactly that? And often CCP don't act all the time there's no light being shined on things. And sure, there's other ways to make trillions, usually with a whole heap of work over a long period of time and still it's all dwarfed by a guy running a third party application. Not to mention that every single one of those in-gmae mechanics can be affected and attacked by players using in-game methods while IWI cannot. And I didn't state it was an easy task, I'm sure running 200 bots isn't an easy task, yet that's still banned. Just because it takes effort doesn't change whether it's right or not to allow it. At the end of the day, I still see this as a third party app that allows a player to effectively win EVE by have a completely uncounterable method of gaining more isk that even whole alliances can make. A lot of people are happy with it now because their target is goons and they don't like goons, but that doesn't make it right to allow it. There's no point in other players even trying to compete with that.
I don't recall seeing you taking issue with IWI, until after you lost all your space and your "mighty" coalition started failcascading.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 11:07:39 -
[412] - Quote
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:Whiney as in your first response to me was that I must have been ganked, highsec bear blah blah blah..... Well you were the one complaining about Burn Jita bro.
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:Also I mentioned Burn Jita once in relation to the current burning of your space and how hilarious it is. I live in Deklein now? Since when?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
662
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 11:13:54 -
[413] - Quote
*popcorn* The MBC has a long way to go before they can honestly claim victory.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 11:19:32 -
[414] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:That is all very noble on paper, but I would love to know for certain whether you have actually filed a formal ticket or petition with them about this. I don't even care to know about the answer, if any, because I understand that there may be rules about sharing private correspondence from CCP employees blah blah, that come into play.
I just want to know how committed to this you really are. Seriously, it seems to me that you're brown-nosing The Mittani more than anything else. He brought this up in one of his dispatches to the faithful sometime last week and you've been on a tear about it ever since. Yes, it's been raised.
And no, this has nothing to do with Mittani. Once again I invite you to peruse my post history and you'll find that my stance on these gambling sites has been the same for a long time, likely longer than I've been in the Imperium. The only thing the latest activities have done is compound my belief that they are bad for the game and encourage me to push even harder for their removal.
Speedkermit Damo wrote:I don't recall seeing you taking issue with IWI, until after you lost all your space and your "mighty" coalition started failcascading. When what you recall dictates reality, let me know.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
219
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 11:21:22 -
[415] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:*popcorn* The MBC has a long way to go before they can honestly claim victory.
We certainly do. I am very wary of the folks who have been counting chickens. However, as I understand it, some of the recent delay was sorting out who was going to be the one to 'take' Deklein on a permanent basis. You'll see now that things are moving once again and timers in that region are being created.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
219
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 11:25:42 -
[416] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:That is all very noble on paper, but I would love to know for certain whether you have actually filed a formal ticket or petition with them about this. I don't even care to know about the answer, if any, because I understand that there may be rules about sharing private correspondence from CCP employees blah blah, that come into play.
I just want to know how committed to this you really are. Seriously, it seems to me that you're brown-nosing The Mittani more than anything else. He brought this up in one of his dispatches to the faithful sometime last week and you've been on a tear about it ever since. Yes, it's been raised.
Thank you.
Quote:And no, this has nothing to do with Mittani. Once again I invite you to peruse my post history and you'll find that my stance on these gambling sites has been the same for a long time, likely longer than I've been in the Imperium. The only thing the latest activities have done is compound my belief that they are bad for the game and encourage me to push even harder for their removal.
Well, SMA's involvement with IWI was certainly horrible, to be sure, but there is plenty of blame to go around on SMA's side in that mess as well.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan
Morning Star Expeditionary Force
1
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 11:33:44 -
[417] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:Whiney as in your first response to me was that I must have been ganked, highsec bear blah blah blah..... Well you were the one complaining about Burn Jita bro.
I know I said I wouldn't be back but I couldn't resist...... Please direct me to the post where I 'complained' about Burn Jita??! It's a good community driven event just like grrrgoons! You have just proven my previous post!
Thank you, now I really must go... I have some gambling to do on IWI!!! |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7480
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 12:44:11 -
[418] - Quote
Chloe 'Eris' Morgan wrote:I know I said I wouldn't be back but I couldn't resist...... Honestly, I'm shocked.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
712
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 14:21:29 -
[419] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:N, I don;t, but the rules isnt; about generating isk, it's about acquiring isk. If it were only about generating isk there would be multiple tools like (like market bots for example) which would not be covered. Your inability to read the EULA is your problem.
Let me know when you have a half decent argument not based on your misunderstanding.
IWI hasn't acquired a single ISK outside of the game. 100% of it has been through donations to real players playing real time. Market bots mean a real person isn't pressing the keys real time to acquire the isk. in IWI's case a real person is physically at the keyboard doing transactions with other players real time for 100% of the ISK acquired. It is 100% covered under the EULA. You playing mental gymnastics to try and get that site shut down makes me think one of two things.
1) you honestly don't understand the EULA 2) you're trying to push propaganda to get a legitimate service shut down as part of the meta of the game 3) you're just trolling us
Which is it? |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13900
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 14:37:30 -
[420] - Quote
http://www.ibtimes.com/eve-online-battle-control-most-boring-video-game-world-2352253
Quote:Known as The Mittani within the virtual world of GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ Gianturco commands an army of 40,000 space pilots loyal to his Imperium coalition. He has a trusted band of lieutenants and uses propaganda, espionage and deception to retain his position as the gameGÇÖs most powerful player, describing himself as the Vladimir Putin of the GÇ£EveGÇ¥ universe. He has even leveraged his position to earn a living from GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ setting up his own website and renting out his army of mercenaries to other video games.
Just seemed relevant. |
|
Speedkermit Damo
Hax. Abuse of Power.
493
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 14:57:22 -
[421] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:http://www.ibtimes.com/eve-online-battle-control-most-boring-video-game-world-2352253 Quote:Known as The Mittani within the virtual world of GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ Gianturco commands an army of 40,000 space pilots loyal to his Imperium coalition. He has a trusted band of lieutenants and uses propaganda, espionage and deception to retain his position as the gameGÇÖs most powerful player, describing himself as the Vladimir Putin of the GÇ£EveGÇ¥ universe. He has even leveraged his position to earn a living from GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ setting up his own website and renting out his army of mercenaries to other video games. Just seemed relevant.
It looks as if IBT were less than impressed by what Mittens said in "those" leaks.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3344
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 14:59:57 -
[422] - Quote
Poor Lucas, he will keep insisting that IWI is going against the EULA and will keep doing so until CCP get bored of him and close this thread.
Then he will find another thread to whinge about IWI.
Sad really.
This is not a signature.
|
Speedkermit Damo
Hax. Abuse of Power.
493
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 15:12:33 -
[423] - Quote
"THEY WILL PRINT WHATEVER I TELL THEM"
Well Mittens, they certainly printed that bit.
GG Mittens GG
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7482
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 15:32:10 -
[424] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:IWI hasn't acquired a single ISK outside of the game. No, they've aquired isk in game by using a third party tool out of game. Simply put, do you agree that if they didn't have the website, they would acquire less ISK? If you answer yes, then they are acquiring ISK in an accelerated rate to normal gameplay. If no, you're a complete liar.
Jenn aSide wrote:http://www.ibtimes.com/eve-online-battle-control-most-boring-video-game-world-2352253 Quote:Known as The Mittani within the virtual world of GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ Gianturco commands an army of 40,000 space pilots loyal to his Imperium coalition. He has a trusted band of lieutenants and uses propaganda, espionage and deception to retain his position as the gameGÇÖs most powerful player, describing himself as the Vladimir Putin of the GÇ£EveGÇ¥ universe. He has even leveraged his position to earn a living from GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ setting up his own website and renting out his army of mercenaries to other video games. Just seemed relevant. Because making real money from a website while trading no in game items for it is bad? Better tell Rixx Javix to pack up his work then.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mario Putzo
1650
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 15:33:58 -
[425] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:http://www.ibtimes.com/eve-online-battle-control-most-boring-video-game-world-2352253 Quote:Known as The Mittani within the virtual world of GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ Gianturco commands an army of 40,000 space pilots loyal to his Imperium coalition. He has a trusted band of lieutenants and uses propaganda, espionage and deception to retain his position as the gameGÇÖs most powerful player, describing himself as the Vladimir Putin of the GÇ£EveGÇ¥ universe. He has even leveraged his position to earn a living from GÇ£Eve Online,GÇ¥ setting up his own website and renting out his army of mercenaries to other video games. Just seemed relevant. Because making real money from a website while trading no in game items for it is bad? Better tell Rixx Javix to pack up his work then.
Except you know paying out the guys who write the articles that drive site traffic with ISK...you know the in game currency of EVE Online.
But hey why let facts ruin a good story right. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
712
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 15:42:49 -
[426] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, they've aquired isk in game by using a third party tool out of game. Simply put, do you agree that if they didn't have the website, they would acquire less ISK? If you answer yes, then they are acquiring ISK in an accelerated rate to normal gameplay. If no, you're a complete liar.
That website is part of normal gameplay. Just as is any other 3rd party tool.
Simply put, could a coalition like CFC have grown to its size with zero out of game tools? If your answer is no, you're a complete liar.
Take your propaganda somewhere else, or at least be subtle enough about what you're doing that it's not painfully obvious. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7482
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 15:53:07 -
[427] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Except you know paying out the guys who write the articles that drive site traffic with ISK...you know the in game currency of EVE Online.
But hey why let facts ruin a good story right. Which CCP explicitly allow, hence why sites like EN24 do exactly the same thing.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:That website is part of normal gameplay. Just as is any other 3rd party tool. LOL. When I logged on a new account I didn't actually get a gambling site with it. I guess my copy of EVE must be broken. What gambling site do you own and operate that you got as part of logging on to EVE?
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Simply put, could a coalition like CFC have grown to its size with zero out of game tools? If your answer is no, you're a complete liar. But would't your answer to that question also be no? I think you are confused.
To be clear to you,yes, all third party tools provide a benefit, that's why they exist, but like CCP stated themselves, there's a difference between a fair benefit like TS3 provides and an unfair advantage that tools like ISBoxer provide. IWI is a tool that provides an unfair benefit to it's owner, and so should not be allowed.
I do like by the way how you completely skipped over the question I asked you.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mario Putzo
1652
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 15:58:37 -
[428] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Except you know paying out the guys who write the articles that drive site traffic with ISK...you know the in game currency of EVE Online.
But hey why let facts ruin a good story right. Which CCP explicitly allow, hence why sites like EN24 do exactly the same thing.
And CCP explicitly allows for gambling services to exist in EVE Online. So begs to question. Just what is your ******* point?
Don't actually answer though because I really don't care what your opinion is. After all, its CCP's opinion that is final. |
james ayyhan
Capital Maintenance
8
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 16:02:18 -
[429] - Quote
Mits tried to do the Evening Games Club which was a copy of the most successful iwi and eve-bet and so.
so he failed at a eve casino but haven for bid someone else makes isk from it, if they do then its wrong and RmT well what can i say to that |
Speedkermit Damo
Hax. Abuse of Power.
494
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 16:06:28 -
[430] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Except you know paying out the guys who write the articles that drive site traffic with ISK...you know the in game currency of EVE Online.
But hey why let facts ruin a good story right. Which CCP explicitly allow, hence why sites like EN24 do exactly the same thing. And CCP explicitly allows for gambling services to exist in EVE Online. So begs to question. Just what is your ******* point? Don't actually answer though because I really don't care what your opinion is. After all, its CCP's opinion that is final.
Sour grapes.
Very very sour grapes.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7482
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 16:13:31 -
[431] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:And CCP explicitly allows for gambling services to exist in EVE Online. So begs to question. Just what is your ******* point?
Don't actually answer though because I really don't care what your opinion is. After all, its CCP's opinion that is final. They have't explicity allowed them, they've implicity allowed them. Also, we are all free to ask CCP to make changes. If you want to try to make them stop allowing articles to be paid for with isk, feel free. I, unlike you, won't turn up and start launching personal attacks at you simply because I disagree with your opinion.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Carn Uta
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
8
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 16:13:54 -
[432] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Who knows, CODE could be next.
Oh, I do hope so.
|
Cheburko
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 16:19:28 -
[433] - Quote
CCP allowed isboxer unhindered until it became a cause for unfair advantage to other players. When it became clear that it was an unfair advantage, they enforced limitations on what you could do with it. No reason they shouldn't do that for casinos.
Websites that wanted to use eve apis for their content would have a special api just for websites. Could have for profit and non profit apis. To have a profit api, corp has to hold sov. Corp loses its sov, api is disabled until they get sov again. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1114
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 19:47:01 -
[434] - Quote
Carn Uta wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Who knows, CODE could be next.
Oh, I do hope so.
The tears would be endless.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7476
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 20:19:46 -
[435] - Quote
You know I just realized something.
There's always been a lot of grrr about CFC being too cozy with CCP. The quit article from Gevlon says much about it... but....
When people come into Eve expecting a certain thing, Eve becomes that thing.
When big space battles make international news, people coming into the game expect that. They may get it, or not, or get it and TiDi disenchants them, and they move on. But the expectation is why we have TiDi as CCP does what they can to address lag, TiDi being better than "I got on grid, black screen, clone vat".
When Eve has a reputation of being a litter box rather than a sandbox, hence the response CCP took to the E1 scandal for example, people will come into the game expecting and performing stuff like that.
Now would be, more than ever, one of the best times to be having a subscription/advertisement drive. Imagine a field of new players here on the pretense of "taking down a huge alliance". Imagine what they would do for the game with that expectation.
Yet it's pretty silent. Is there foot-dragging going on here? Or is this happening too fast? Or are there people on the inside who feel that this is not a goon-friendly thing to do?
Just my 2 cents. Note I ask questions, but I don't have answers. I'm wondering why there is no massive sub drive going on in what is going to be a huge pivotal point in the Eve timeline.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 20:34:17 -
[436] - Quote
I saw Eve a lot in the gaming press lately, and according to eve-offline, the number of newly created characters was about 50-ish percent higher than usual during the last couple of weeks. So, something happened at least.
But I agree. My impression is, that CCP are not very good very good at advertising their game. Never have been. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
237
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 21:52:26 -
[437] - Quote
I believe there is a difference between what draws people to the game, and what keeps 'em here.
For example - I admit in all honesty - I was going to be a space mogul, inventing stuff, running multiple production lines and I almost could envision shipping lanes running around the clock ferrying the goods.
Then I got shot. Repeatedly.
I EmOrAgEQuiTTT!!
I came back.
I started shooting people just to get my PvP on - discovered I liked that ... and out of the window my production empire dream went. So you see... signing up for taking on the Evil Space Imperium is one thing; chances are those people will discover that perhaps they don't like it after all. Or they 5uck at it. They may yet become highsec dwellers, or rather carve themselves a place to stay in a nice quiet wormhole with friends.
The tools are there ; what they make for themselves, only time will tell. |
Stalker Ofeveryone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 00:00:35 -
[438] - Quote
Goons aren't going anywhere. I think people have started believing their own propaganda. For starters the groups involved have no interest in keeping dek. They've all stated they're "burning sov", cool keep kicking over those space flags. Next, the moment PL get bored/train for AT etc, the coalition will lose the one major power carrying them around on the backs of their supers.
Let's assume they actually keep dek, cool, we'll go somewhere else. We'll be unleashed upon the great unwashed masses of highsec. With a refreshed, and agitated alliance ready to burn ****. Say what you want of the other alliances, but goons are growing in membership. |
Avaelica Kuershin
Aliastra
249
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 00:38:01 -
[439] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
It's entirely possible that IWI has found a way to gather new 'players' to them by dividing the players that are Destroyers at Heart vs. those that are Builders at Heart.
But which group is which? Sometimes it's hard to separate the roleplay "Grr Goons" from a rather disturbing hatred of anything to do with Goonswarm. |
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
140
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 03:15:27 -
[440] - Quote
I think that the one thing this recent war shows is that holding SOV is much more difficult now. The old ways don't work and defending apparently is a pain in the butt. The future of Sov will probably involve systems trading hands far more often now, no mega alliance would be safe if the attacking group has enough firepower to tear down its space. The old days and old ways are gone, and Null will never again be quite the same. Oh and renting out nullsec space will become nothing more than a memory.
War is coming to nullsec. There will be no more Grrrr mega alliance anymore, new strategies will have to be adopted. This World War Bee has started something, and this is only the beginning I think. |
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
241
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 03:16:19 -
[441] - Quote
This probably has to do with similarities with real life. As much as we'd like to keep in-game and out-game separated, I think it's only human we recognise behaviour from the one seeping through in the other.
The in-game world allows us to be better people than we actually are, because our very lives are not at stake. "it is but pixels", right?
In game we can do what we fail to do in real life: make a difference. Kick the whole house of cards into oblivion. Back in the real world however, we're still very much governed by goon-alikes.
I'm sure somebody will write a nice thesis about it, but it may very turn out that those fighting for Freedom in the Pixel World care because they feel oppressed in the real one. Despite the fact it hasn't played out in-game yet, we already know what would happen if we don't stand up to civilisation - unified carebear masses under the umbrella of a "commonwealth". Some may just long the Far West had never ended, and are unwilling to repeat the mistakes of old. In the pixel world, that is.
When all things you see or do in game involve real people, it seems quite normal to pierce the veil between worlds. On one hand this is a truly amazing feat by CCP. It's also a long-winded way of say "people will be a55holes in any world." |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7482
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 03:42:03 -
[442] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote: I'm sure somebody will write a nice thesis about it, but it may very turn out that those fighting for Freedom in the Pixel World care because they feel oppressed in the real one. Despite the fact it hasn't played out in-game yet, we already know what would happen if we don't stand up to civilisation - unified carebear masses under the umbrella of a "commonwealth". Some may just long the Far West had never ended, and are unwilling to repeat the mistakes of old. In the pixel world, that is.
When all things you see or do in game involve real people, it seems quite normal to pierce the veil between worlds. On one hand this is a truly amazing feat by CCP. It's also a long-winded way of say "people will be a55holes in any world."
I've often wondered about this.
On the flipside, I have wondered if the people making their game the wrecking of someone else's game (or stuff generally) are people who face a lot of RL pressure to act in certain ways. I'm sure if I was not the boss and instead a cubicle slave having to hide my package from HR lest I be deemed something undesirable and fired that would affect how I play this game.
Most notable to me is how the "quality" of piracy and nefariousness in Eve has degenerated in the same vector as society in general. That is, it's not like everybody was nice in the game at one time (nobody ever was), but it seems that those who aren't now are showing a level of "meta" to their madness. It's not like before it started getting worse things like ransoms were honored and noobs were not so easily ganked 'for lulz". Capers of players who "should have known better" getting their comeuppance or pushing things too far on a gamble (or hubris) started to trail off and get replaced with "we pretended to be his friend then took all of his stuff and ganked him and kept his pod scrammed until he logged and we ain't seen him since!! WE'RE SO LEET!!!!"
Now compare western civilization now to how it was 9 years ago.
Also I cannot help thinking that it's also along the same vector the people are getting fed up with corrupt systems in representational parties, with 2016 being that kind of year of things coming to a head finally (as the people running those systems say "this is what we are going to do, your vote never counted, so what if it wrecks your country or your life, nyah nyah nyah), and here we are in 2016 and finally after all those years CFC is being challenged.
Direct relation? I doubt it's direct. But there certainly is a "spirit" going on out of game and it may well be "seeping" into the game here.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2828
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 04:59:37 -
[443] - Quote
Stalker Ofeveryone wrote:Goons aren't going anywhere. I think people have started believing their own propaganda. For starters the groups involved have no interest in keeping dek. They've all stated they're "burning sov", cool keep kicking over those space flags. Next, the moment PL get bored/train for AT etc, the coalition will lose the one major power carrying them around on the backs of their supers.
Let's assume they actually keep dek, cool, we'll go somewhere else. We'll be unleashed upon the great unwashed masses of highsec. With a refreshed, and agitated alliance ready to burn ****. Say what you want of the other alliances, but goons are growing in membership. I don't think goons will collapse. They will certainly shrink, especially from Section 8 corps, but I'd be surprised if goons didn't endure.
The real question is about how long the MBC will hunt goons for once Deklein is taken. The number probably increases every time Mittani gives one of those cringey 40k speeches. Honestly, they are getting embarrassing.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
17
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 07:01:50 -
[444] - Quote
fofofofofofofofofofo
My what exciting (albeit one-sided) times we have here.
The pleasure derived from the line-by-line NaCl desiccant delivered by the estimable Mr lolLucas is exceeded only by Mittler's permanent ostrich impression........
The 2016 version of Goon is a sad shadow of 2006-2007 Goon.
Laughable. |
Stalker Ofeveryone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 07:11:48 -
[445] - Quote
Zappity wrote:The real question is about how long the MBC will hunt goons once Deklein is taken.
They'll probably do a half assed effort to make it look like they're still 'super duper serious', then slowly walk out the back door. I mean, the only "hunting" they're doing so far is kicking sandcastles over. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2828
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 07:30:01 -
[446] - Quote
Stalker Ofeveryone wrote:I mean, the only "hunting" they're doing so far is kicking sandcastles over. As opposed to what? Camping the Saranen undock? You are deliberately not undocking anything meaningful so you can't legitimately complain when they go after what they CAN hit.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations RAZOR Alliance
524
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 09:16:00 -
[447] - Quote
Still here, for a given value of still, and here.
I'm getting almost as much enjoyment out of reading both sides of the forum war as I'm getting from fleeting up and not flying safe :)
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
305
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 09:56:06 -
[448] - Quote
Loyalty makes people do such strange things doesn't it? Quite a few imperium members seem to be incapable of thinking that goons may be at an end, meanwhile the rest of eve is ripping their sov from them.
If I were goons and wanted to win, I'd use my spy network to smash a few enemies and show not to mess with goons. Find out about super movements or whatever and hit back, not all of your opponents are non-sov holders. Your whole mantra has been "blueball or decimate, aim to win" but it seems you have lost that will, sitting in saranen isn't going to win you anything.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 10:06:16 -
[449] - Quote
To keep moral up you need some of these:
1. Fanatics: Well, they have some 2. spoils: A loosing battle gives no spoils. 3. vision: missing, except something spezific like: We will win.......... 4. Moral boosting action: missing. Even if you go down in a big BOOM it will keep your troops together because they have something to show but hiding will not only grind on the enemy.
If the leaders miss the right time Goon will not go down but fade away. Some members are complaining that they are missing chances to rat or otherwise make money. And if they wait to long MBC will tear down their capitals one by one as they take the systems and the POSs |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11570
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 10:07:17 -
[450] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Loyalty makes people do such strange things doesn't it? Quite a few imperium members seem to be incapable of thinking that goons may be at an end, meanwhile the rest of eve is ripping their sov from them.
If I were goons and wanted to win, I'd use my spy network to smash a few enemies and show not to mess with goons. Find out about super movements or whatever and hit back, not all of your opponents are non-sov holders. Your whole mantra has been "blueball or decimate, aim to win" but it seems you have lost that will, sitting in saranen isn't going to win you anything.
you're right, goonswarm has absolutely never lost all of its space before
buuut we actually have and we're still around
Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
-á-á - Abrazzar
|
|
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations RAZOR Alliance
524
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 10:08:17 -
[451] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Loyalty makes people do such strange things doesn't it? Quite a few imperium members seem to be incapable of thinking that goons may be at an end, meanwhile the rest of eve is ripping their sov from them.
If I were goons and wanted to win, I'd use my spy network to smash a few enemies and show not to mess with goons. Find out about super movements or whatever and hit back, not all of your opponents are non-sov holders. Your whole mantra has been "blueball or decimate, aim to win" but it seems you have lost that will, sitting in saranen isn't going to win you anything.
So , you are saying that after enjoying the good times, when an alliance hits rough times pilots should just up and leave?
Seems a little self centred and small to me
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
220
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 11:30:17 -
[452] - Quote
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:
It's entirely possible that IWI has found a way to gather new 'players' to them by dividing the players that are Destroyers at Heart vs. those that are Builders at Heart.
But which group is which? Sometimes it's hard to separate the roleplay "Grr Goons" from a rather disturbing hatred of anything to do with Goonswarm.
On a personal level, I have no hatred of Goons at all. In fact, I enjoyed playing with them, although I didn't acquire any special attachment for the Imperium itself. My husband and I were early readers of SA ourselves, even though we never sprang for the forum sub fee. We read the site humor and mostly stayed away from the forums tbh, we weren't that into it, but we retain an appreciation for the basic humor to this day, and Goons can be blisteringly funny a lot of the time. Even Mittani. The problem is, I think that the cult-like atmosphere surrounding him, joke or not, has outlived its usefulness for them, and that they're selling their enemies short. I don't think they quite get how completely over the whole thing that many people are. And the more Mittani sounds like Baghdad Bob, the more his enemies have their collective resolve hardened.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
305
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 11:44:16 -
[453] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Loyalty makes people do such strange things doesn't it? Quite a few imperium members seem to be incapable of thinking that goons may be at an end, meanwhile the rest of eve is ripping their sov from them.
If I were goons and wanted to win, I'd use my spy network to smash a few enemies and show not to mess with goons. Find out about super movements or whatever and hit back, not all of your opponents are non-sov holders. Your whole mantra has been "blueball or decimate, aim to win" but it seems you have lost that will, sitting in saranen isn't going to win you anything. So , you are saying that after enjoying the good times, when an alliance hits rough times pilots should just up and leave? Seems a little self centred and small to me
Not necessarily but if the orders from above are "do nothing" I personally would seriously consider going elsewhere, and tell my friends to come with me. I was more talking about the fact that most goons don't even seem to see losing as a possibility here, they have completely bought the propoganda.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3349
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 12:07:52 -
[454] - Quote
Rank and file goons are not the problem.
The problem is mittens and his ego.
This is not a signature.
|
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
601
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 12:28:22 -
[455] - Quote
Stalker Ofeveryone wrote:Goons aren't going anywhere. I think people have started believing their own propaganda. For starters the groups involved have no interest in keeping dek. They've all stated they're "burning sov", cool keep kicking over those space flags. Next, the moment PL get bored/train for AT etc, the coalition will lose the one major power carrying them around on the backs of their supers.
Let's assume they actually keep dek, cool, we'll go somewhere else. We'll be unleashed upon the great unwashed masses of highsec. With a refreshed, and agitated alliance ready to burn ****. Say what you want of the other alliances, but goons are growing in membership.
I think you're believing the propaganda a little too much. The MBC is comprised of many groups, all with individual post conflict goals. Some will keep sov, some will stop Goons from having Sov again, some will go off and do their own thing. The MBC is not one entity with a single leader, it shouldn't be measured against what the CFC is or was.
And growth in membership means nothing. What matters is dudes in space shooting other dudes and entosising structures. MC is putting out bigger fleets than the CFC can manage and they are barely a fraction of the size of GEWNS, let alone CONDI.
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1122
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 12:41:19 -
[456] - Quote
Andski wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Loyalty makes people do such strange things doesn't it? Quite a few imperium members seem to be incapable of thinking that goons may be at an end, meanwhile the rest of eve is ripping their sov from them.
If I were goons and wanted to win, I'd use my spy network to smash a few enemies and show not to mess with goons. Find out about super movements or whatever and hit back, not all of your opponents are non-sov holders. Your whole mantra has been "blueball or decimate, aim to win" but it seems you have lost that will, sitting in saranen isn't going to win you anything. you're right, goonswarm has absolutely never lost all of its space before buuut we actually have and we're still around
Which is why this time the target is your competent FC's and membership count.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7483
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 14:05:09 -
[457] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:I think you're believing the propaganda a little too much. The MBC is comprised of many groups, all with individual post conflict goals. Some will keep sov, some will stop Goons from having Sov again, some will go off and do their own thing. The MBC is not one entity with a single leader, it shouldn't be measured against what the CFC is or was. And most will not be able to survive once they don't have the coalition together.
knobber Jobbler wrote:And growth in membership means nothing. What matters is dudes in space shooting other dudes and entosising structures. MC is putting out bigger fleets than the CFC can manage and they are barely a fraction of the size of GEWNS, let alone CONDI. Of course that's what matters to you, because that's the metric that shows you in the most positive light. But at the end of the day you can't claim to destroy goons if goons aren't destroyed, no matter how many undefended timers you win.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
243
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 16:04:43 -
[458] - Quote
What is the difference between an impotent, docked, sovless goon and a destroyed goon?
What metrics would you suggest? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7484
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 16:36:13 -
[459] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:What is the difference between an impotent, docked, sovless goon and a destroyed goon? One is a player sitting in a station part of a group the other is dead or non existent. What's happening here is goons are being outnumbered and overpowered, so they are on the retreat so they can work on survival rather than throwing ships into their death trying to defend things they know they will inevitably lose. While it's bad they've had to do that it's not nearly as bad as many are claiming.
The thing that confuses me is that TEST took a much quicker dive into the dumpster and yet still exists and has grown back to the third biggest alliance in the game and had a major part in the new biggest coalition in the game, so why people seem to think goons will be incapable of doing the same I don't really know.
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:What metrics would you suggest? Depends on the objective. If it's to destroy goons then goon membership numbers would be a start. We know they aren't defending systems, so sov will inevitably be taken so using that as a metric seems pretty bad unless the only objective was to remove goon sov, in which case well done. Sov used to be pretty much the metric because taking sov was hard, and so to be able to stomp through someone's sov it was a pretty big indicator that the defender was losing heavily. But as people keep pointing out sov has changed, and the view of it has to change too. It's much more fluid than it used to be.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3349
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 16:40:14 -
[460] - Quote
Wow Lucas, you used to be quite dry and witty in the forums, is the war affecting you that much?
Lighten up a bit.
Even if the goons lose practically everything, look at the fun and scheming to be had trying to get it all back again.
This is not a signature.
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7484
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 17:27:46 -
[461] - Quote
I'm lightened up, no worries So far I'm still net positive on the war so all is good.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4464
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 00:37:43 -
[462] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Rank and file goons are not the problem.
The problem is mittens and his ego. Seems to be the root of things. Complacency, moving from a base of everybody's a soldier-citizen to where there are professionals and unknown but coddled grunts. Online societies are like bands, clans, and up to tribes. All volunteers, and all log-ins based 100% on feeling like logging in tonight. The leap from super-tribe warchief to Monarchy/Emperor/Dictator is huge. Possibly impossible, on a long term basis. People are ADD, and also democratically hard-headed, at some point. The balance between lulz sheep who will follow, and lulz posters who will shite-bandwagon post you unto oblivion.... There lies the rub. |
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
141
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 07:16:56 -
[463] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Loyalty makes people do such strange things doesn't it? Quite a few imperium members seem to be incapable of thinking that goons may be at an end, meanwhile the rest of eve is ripping their sov from them.
If I were goons and wanted to win, I'd use my spy network to smash a few enemies and show not to mess with goons. Find out about super movements or whatever and hit back, not all of your opponents are non-sov holders. Your whole mantra has been "blueball or decimate, aim to win" but it seems you have lost that will, sitting in saranen isn't going to win you anything.
Not sure if any of you know this, but they aren't still sitting in Saranen, those are mostly just alts and what not messing around.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
220
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 09:55:09 -
[464] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Loyalty makes people do such strange things doesn't it? Quite a few imperium members seem to be incapable of thinking that goons may be at an end, meanwhile the rest of eve is ripping their sov from them.
If I were goons and wanted to win, I'd use my spy network to smash a few enemies and show not to mess with goons. Find out about super movements or whatever and hit back, not all of your opponents are non-sov holders. Your whole mantra has been "blueball or decimate, aim to win" but it seems you have lost that will, sitting in saranen isn't going to win you anything. Not sure if any of you know this, but they aren't still sitting in Saranen, those are mostly just alts and what not messing around.
Didn't want those carriers anyway
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13937
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 12:21:44 -
[465] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Rank and file goons are not the problem.
The problem is mittens and his ego.
The truth is I was way more "pro-Goon" before this war. I liked their "Devil may care" attitude, I remember fondly the skill with which they killed (IT Alliance) or ejected (NCDot) the groups I was in at the time. I thought a great deal of the 'grr goons' stuff was impotent whining by people who mostly never shot at goons (and in the main I still believe that). I thought about joining them or (rejoining) their coalition a few times (ie I could have gone back to INIT).
But this war has left a real bad taste in my mouth. It seems like they turned into the standard "I I can't be sure of a win i won't even try" types of players EVE has always had, rather than the bold Rifter flying "screw it, it's a game, CHARGE" types they used to be. And any other reputable group would have kicked their leadership to curb by now and got new leaders who still think of this as a game to be enjoyed by brash as hell Goons rather than something to be monitized into a multi-dollar empire (I still chuckle at that term btw).
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 14:37:15 -
[466] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:But this war has left a real bad taste in my mouth. It seems like they turned into the standard "I I can't be sure of a win i won't even try" types of players EVE has always had, rather than the bold Rifter flying "screw it, it's a game, CHARGE" types they used to be. But it's not they cant be sure of a win, they can be sure of a loss if engaging in direct combat. The enemy has more players, more supers and an infinite unbreakable warchest. It's the same thing that any other group would do in their position, hell, it's what PL did when they fell back after B-R instead of pushing forwards. As much as you may think it's just the leadership, rank and file goons don't want to lose all their SRP and their own assets fighting a futile war either.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1730
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 15:29:18 -
[467] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:But this war has left a real bad taste in my mouth. It seems like they turned into the standard "I I can't be sure of a win i won't even try" types of players EVE has always had, rather than the bold Rifter flying "screw it, it's a game, CHARGE" types they used to be. But it's not they cant be sure of a win, they can be sure of a loss if engaging in direct combat. The enemy has more players, more supers and an infinite unbreakable warchest. It's the same thing that any other group would do in their position, hell, it's what PL did when they fell back after B-R instead of pushing forwards. As much as you may think it's just the leadership, rank and file goons don't want to lose all their SRP and their own assets fighting a futile war either.
Marginally more players. MBC fleet numbers peaked at ~3000. The Imperium was 40k strong at the start so for matching numbers of 3000 would require of 7.5% participation across the coalition. That's it. An entirely achievable number considering it was a fight in your home space for the survival of that space.
So for years goons et al sit around telling everybody they are not in EVE for small gang and skirmishes but for the huge narrative driven wars, and here one is, on their doorstep, and.....they can't be bothered to log in for it.
Supers have negligible use in Fozziesov and as for warchests, where has 6-7 years of ratting taxes, rental income, r64, technetium bubble, FW exploit and market manipulations ISK gone?
BRAVE knew they weren't going to win the war but they still killed Hurley's titan, won a station with a t1 cruiser having final shot against a super fleet, and formed 1000 to defend their home station on the eve of defeat. TEST drove fleet after fleet of battleships into dreadnoughts in 6VDT, reshipping three, four, five times in the night and made gaming history. WALLTREIPERS held out in a one single system while massively outnumbered, dropping supers on SBUs right under everyone's nose. All those stories they can take away and will last forever because they realised it was only a game they were playing.
The only thing Imperium will be remembered for is being basic bitches who gave up and ran away, or were too scurred over their imaginary pixels to even take part in the first place. |
Hawke Frost
22
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 15:52:24 -
[468] - Quote
micdrop.jpg |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 16:06:36 -
[469] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Marginally more players. MBC fleet numbers peaked at ~3000. The Imperium was 40k strong at the start so for matching numbers of 3000 would require of 7.5% participation across the coalition. That's it. An entirely achievable number considering it was a fight in your home space for the survival of that space. Not when you consider how many of the Imperium numbers are alts. Remember that holding sov now requires mandatory ratting and mining, meaning that numbers are bulked up by our non-combat alts so we can achieve that in a reasonable time frame. Then there's all the cyno alts needed for travelling about. Not to mention that some of the alliances don't do purges, such as goonswarm meaning their numbers are inflated with inactives. MBC on the other hand grew primarily from active players as its people jumping in specifically to go to war, so to expect a smaller coalition of inactives and alts to stand a chance against a large PvP driven coalition with infinite funding is pretty silly.
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Supers have negligible use in Fozziesov and as for warchests, where has 6-7 years of ratting taxes, rental income, r64, technetium bubble, FW exploit and market manipulations ISK gone? Supers still help decide the larger battles. Imperium warchests are vast but not infinite, and can be destroyed. Up against effectively infinite funding coming from a third party application that can't be affected in-game, there's no chance. A war of that size would come down to funding and infinite funding beats out finite funding any day of the week.
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:BRAVE knew they weren't going to win the war but they still killed Hurley's titan, won a station with a t1 cruiser having final shot against a super fleet, and formed 1000 to defend their home station on the eve of defeat. TEST drove fleet after fleet of battleships into dreadnoughts in 6VDT, reshipping three, four, five times in the night and made gaming history. WALLTREIPERS held out in a one single system while massively outnumbered, dropping supers on SBUs right under everyone's nose. All those stories they can take away and will last forever because they realised it was only a game they were playing. Sure, and in all of those cases there came a time when they had to call it a day rather than continuing to throw everything at it. That time just came earlier for the Imperium due to the damage done by CO2 leaving and handing out information of active super builds. Even without counting the builds in progress and restricting fleets, the Imperium has lost several trillion isk. I know you want them to run headlong into a meat grinder, but they'd be stupid to do so. It's pretty amusing that you think they are playing wrong because they aren't willing to take everything they've built up in years of playing this game and throw it in the bin over some e-honor bullshit. Doubly so when you consider most of MBC is only doing it because they are being funded while for years they've been unwilling to throw up this war with their own isk.
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:The only thing Imperium will be remembered for is being basic bitches who gave up and ran away, or were too scurred over their imaginary pixels to even take part in the first place. Seriously doubt that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13941
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 16:09:44 -
[470] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Marginally more players. MBC fleet numbers peaked at ~3000. The Imperium was 40k strong at the start so for matching numbers of 3000 would require of 7.5% participation across the coalition. That's it. An entirely achievable number considering it was a fight in your home space for the survival of that space.
So for years goons et al sit around telling everybody they are not in EVE for small gang and skirmishes but for the huge narrative driven wars, and here one is, on their doorstep, and.....they can't be bothered to log in for it.
Supers have negligible use in Fozziesov and as for warchests, where has 6-7 years of ratting taxes, rental income, r64, technetium bubble, FW exploit and market manipulations ISK gone?
BRAVE knew they weren't going to win the war but they still killed Hurley's titan, won a station with a t1 cruiser having final shot against a super fleet, and formed 1000 to defend their home station on the eve of defeat. TEST drove fleet after fleet of battleships into dreadnoughts in 6VDT, reshipping three, four, five times in the night and made gaming history. WALLTREIPERS held out in a one single system while massively outnumbered, dropping supers on SBUs right under everyone's nose. All those stories they can take away and will last forever because they realised it was only a game they were playing.
The only thing Imperium will be remembered for is being basic bitches who gave up and ran away, or were too scurred over their imaginary pixels to even take part in the first place.
Perfect. +1 |
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
172
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 16:40:13 -
[471] - Quote
ADD THIS:
Lucas Kell wrote:But it's not they cant be sure of a win, they can be sure of a loss if engaging in direct combat. (excuse removed) As much as you may think it's just the leadership, rank and file goons don't want to lose all their SRP and their own assets fighting a futile war either.
TO THIS:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote: All those stories they can take away and will last forever because they realised it was only a game they were playing.
And you pretty much have a summed up version of why the Goons behaved like they did.
As to it being a game, yes, it is, however people are pretty risk averse. We discussed this in a different thread. Even the gung ho PvP ship to ship folks don't really like a fair fight. They also don't really want to risk it all because 'all' represents history in the game for them. However, EVE Rule #1, don't fly what you can't afford. By extension, don't join corps or alliances that you aren't ready to lose it all with if you join them all the way. Also, you can't actually lose everything, your SP's don't go away (well, you can lose some flying a T3 ship).
You could be a 30 mill + SP toon, lose everything you have and still end up with a FREE rookie ship and go have fun with it and rebuild your empire from scratch.
I strongly suggest you not keep all your eggs in one basket. Have an alt in an NPC corp acting as your rainy day fund, with ISK and ships and all kinds of backup stuff. If your main boat goes down with your corp buddies and your alliance, your alt comes over in the dinghy, picks you up, and gets you back on your feet in a heartbeat. All the while, your main looks awesome for going down and losing a bunch with everyone else.
It also lets you go 100% at your foes. They have no idea about your rainy day fund. You can hit them full tilt and know you have a parachute.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1734
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 16:56:02 -
[472] - Quote
Those would all be good points, if the Imperium were the innocent victim minding its own business and suddenly found itself being invaded. and had to survive.
Except, it was the Imperium itself who claimed they were going to make everyone "bend the knee and enjoy the benefits of The Imperium, or be evicted and replaced with someone who will" and, on top of viceroying the whole of nullsec, somehow thought they would make incursion into lowsec to take their moons as well just for laughs. So effectively they were planning to take on all that makes up the MBC today.
Obviously, at that time, they didn't consider themselves a coalition of "inactives or alts" or otherwise they would never have tried such a thing.
Never in the history of this game have I seen the self-perception of a group, the delusions of grandeur, and the nonstop chest beating just soooooooooo far removed from the actual reality of things. |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
175
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 17:05:29 -
[473] - Quote
A reddit copy and paste
i just realized that there will be an epic culling of goon cap ships over time after the new game upgrade. All the ships offline will need refitting and rearming when they actually log into the game, those in stations will be ok if the market is not deliberately unseeded, but all the supers are basically going to be screwed (even more then they already are )
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 17:14:56 -
[474] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Also, you can't actually lose everything, your SP's don't go away (well, you can lose some flying a T3 ship).
You could be a 30 mill + SP toon, lose everything you have and still end up with a FREE rookie ship and go have fun with it and rebuild your empire from scratch. Not being funny mate, but not many people in EVE that have managed to build up to anything of value would be up for building it all from scratch again. Most people will simply do what most people have done, opt to either join the winning side of the war or out of it completely. It's a sandbox, we build it up the way we want to play it and most people will protect that over some vague notion of e-honour.
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I strongly suggest you not keep all your eggs in one basket. Have an alt in an NPC corp acting as your rainy day fund, with ISK and ships and all kinds of backup stuff. If your main boat goes down with your corp buddies and your alliance, your alt comes over in the dinghy, picks you up, and gets you back on your feet in a heartbeat. All the while, your main looks awesome for going down and losing a bunch with everyone else.
It also lets you go 100% at your foes. They have no idea about your rainy day fund. You can hit them full tilt and know you have a parachute. But by having a rainy day fund, you aren't going 100% at your foes. And if you are going to cut your losses before you lose everything, why not cut them as soon as you know you can't win?
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Those would all be good points, if the Imperium were the innocent victim minding its own business and suddenly found itself being invaded. and had to survive. Except, it was the Imperium itself who claimed they were going to make everyone " bend the knee and enjoy the benefits of The Imperium, or be evicted and replaced with someone who will" and, on top of viceroying the whole of nullsec, somehow thought they would make incursion into lowsec to take their moons as well just for laughs. So effectively they were planning to take on all that makes up the MBC today. Obviously, at that time, they didn't consider themselves a coalition of "inactives or alts" or otherwise they would never have tried such a thing. Never in the history of this game have I seen the self-perception of a group, the delusions of grandeur, and the nonstop chest beating just soooooooooo far removed from the actual reality of things. Lol, they are good points regardless of the various motivations for the war. You are saying that they are playing wrong because they aren't throwing themselves onto your swords and feeding you easy kills, and that they are obligated to do so because they chose to start a fight in the first place? So they picked a war with some groups, loads of other groups (including one of the Imperium alliances) and an infinitely rich funder join in leaving them no chance of success, but because thy started it they are wrong for protecting themselves and should instead be willing participants in their own slaughter just to provide you with content?
Ed: Let's put this another way. You keep saying "it's just a game" and you're right, so since games are designed for entertainment, what entertainment value is there in throwing ISK away on a sure loss? And why do your own fleets disengage when they meet overwhelming numbers since welping fleets is supposedly so fun?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1734
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 17:36:57 -
[475] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Let's put this another way. You keep saying "it's just a game" and you're right, so since games are designed for entertainment, what entertainment value is there in throwing ISK away on a sure loss? And why do your own fleets disengage when they meet overwhelming numbers since welping fleets is supposedly so fun?
You keep saying "sure loss", I guess if you've already talked yourself into it, then it becomes true.
FYI: every Deklein timer I have entosed has been in a half fit sabre. I actually think "I'm a sitting duck here, if anyone bothers to come I'm pretty much dead".
Last night Ya0 passively regen'd back to secure because literally no one bothered to show at all.
These would be "sure wins", if anyone cared enough to try, except they don't. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 17:56:06 -
[476] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:You keep saying "sure loss", I guess if you've already talked yourself into it, then it becomes true. It's true because it's what have been evidenced to happen and things have only got more in favour on MBC since then You can't honestly suggest that the Imperium stands even a remote chance in all out combat in this war. Then even if they manage to break even, they are paying out of a finite wallet with diminishing sources of income while your pockets are infinite and untouchable. The common sense approach is to let you dudes do what you're doing then look at rebuilding when they're in a less precarious position.
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:FYI: every Deklein timer I have entosed has been in a half fit sabre. I actually think "I'm a sitting duck here, if anyone bothers to come I'm pretty much dead". Well yeah, everyone takes out cheap throwaway ships to sling on a node. I'd pretty much hit orbit then go play PS4. That you undoubtedly get SRP for it makes it even less of an issue.
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Last night Ya0 passively regen'd back to secure because literally no one bothered to show at all.
These would be "sure wins", if anyone cared enough to try, except they don't. No they wouldn't, the moment an Imperium fleet shows up to do anything about it, everyone would dogpile into the system and obliterate them. This is what has happened every time they've put up a defense fleet this war, which is why I don't understand why you're so shocked and appalled that they've stopped doing that.
Ed: At the end of the day you've done well, you guys have set up a war you are sure to win and should be justifiably proud. But don't be surprised if the enemy chooses not to willingly feed you kills.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7494
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 19:21:17 -
[477] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:You keep saying "sure loss", I guess if you've already talked yourself into it, then it becomes true. It's true because it's what have been evidenced to happen and things have only got more in favour on MBC since then You can't honestly suggest that the Imperium stands even a remote chance in all out combat in this war. Then even if they manage to break even, they are paying out of a finite wallet with diminishing sources of income while your pockets are infinite and untouchable. The common sense approach is to let you dudes do what you're doing then look at rebuilding when they're in a less precarious position. Seven Koskanaiken wrote:FYI: every Deklein timer I have entosed has been in a half fit sabre. I actually think "I'm a sitting duck here, if anyone bothers to come I'm pretty much dead". Well yeah, everyone takes out cheap throwaway ships to sling on a node. I'd pretty much hit orbit then go play PS4. That you undoubtedly get SRP for it makes it even less of an issue. Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Last night Ya0 passively regen'd back to secure because literally no one bothered to show at all.
These would be "sure wins", if anyone cared enough to try, except they don't. No they wouldn't, the moment an Imperium fleet shows up to do anything about it, everyone would dogpile into the system and obliterate them. This is what has happened every time they've put up a defense fleet this war, which is why I don't understand why you're so shocked and appalled that they've stopped doing that. Ed: At the end of the day you've done well, you guys have set up a war you are sure to win and should be justifiably proud. But don't be surprised if the enemy chooses not to willingly feed you kills.
Do you know what you sound like right now?
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
244
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 20:07:56 -
[478] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You can't honestly suggest that the Imperium stands even a remote chance in all out combat in this war.
That's not what I heard in this thread. In fact, please allow me to quote some highlights:
Lucas Kell wrote: This is no different, people shouldn't have to sit around defending timers every day for people who commit nothing to setting them up and have no interest in actually contesing sov.
...
"but they do provide fights and contents so it suits that need as well" Hardly, there's small scraps between tiny ships from time to time but most of the fights are happening either in the same way the used to from grudges like MoA vs Imperium or over moons.
...
Nat, would you not agree that anyone too lazy and incompetent to defend their space would lose their space? And that's not happening, so obviously laziness and incompetence is not the problem. Oh, look out, your obvious bias is showing.
...
According to you we aren't defending our space, therefore if the people attacking it were actually committed to taking it from us we would not have it. And yes, what we are seeing is just an entosis troll brigade, which is why the timers are only being taken if completely uncontested. Just because there's people reddit posting like their lives depended on it doesn't mean anything's actually being committed.
...
We obviously can handle it, that doesn't make it fun to do, but then it's fairly obvious you have no interest in the actual game mechanics being entertaining - probably because you're too busy RMTing to consider the entertainment value of games.
...
But the negative effect isn't coming from the mechanic, they aren't taking sov, the negative effect is coming from the fact that the game is terrible. I'd have absolutely no problem if we were to simply lose all of our space because someone is capable of taking it, but sitting through incredibly boring and badly designed mechanics just makes me wonder what CCP did with their game designers.
...
As for shark infested, it would be better if that were the case as they would be less likely to run away when people show up for fights. We have basically no chance of losing sov, since whether someone with isk was pissed off or not, to take sov the attacker have to see the timers through. They don't which is basically the whole problem. Attackers spend nothing half contesting the sov then running away. They don't actually want sov since they are just fighting for the e-honor of a guaranteed RMTer anyway, so they don't have to commit to the fight. Defenders on the other had have to commit every time
...
But we already don't struggle, hence us not losing our space. The problem once again is that the act of doing so is boring, meaning the best way to deal with sov is to simply not hold it. I'm really not sure what it is about basic English you are failing to grasp.
...
But they can't actually attack, they can just annoy. If they want to take and hold sov they still have to fight the same numbers.
...
It's been said multiple times over, but the fact hat we are still holding our space against a significantly larger number of enemies shows that we aren't overextended, but that still doesn't mean the mechanics we're all forced to deal with don't suck.
...
Your definition of "on fire" differs from the normal definition.
...
Cry more. The only reason our leadership has pissed people off is because they've managed to accomplish something you guys would have no hope of. The fact that you guys are so delusional that you are acting like you've already won makes it all the more amusing.
...
Stop being terrible.
...
If we were overextended we wouldn't be able to defend against even a balanced attack, which clearly we were able to do. It's pretty simple to understand, if you have 1000 people in a single system and a 2000 man fleet flies in and roflstomps you, you didn't lose because you were overextended.
...
I'd say it's a bit early to be calling it losing. Most of BoB did their abandoning of sov before they started because they knew what was coming up. We're dealing with the war from fresh and with the whole CO2 thing so we're taking a bit of a hit but I have no doubt that once we find our footing we'll hammer our way though and BoB will realise how shockingly overconfident they are being.
...
I don't think you know what crying is. Those are simply the facts, but by all means point out what parts of my post are dishonest. Or is constructive conversation beyond your reach?
Your use of the terms "honest" and "dishonest" confuses me. Nobody thought it was going to be easy, and You of all people were quite smug about the whole invasion thing being but a nuissance. We actually believed you DID stand a chance, with ADMs sky high and practically even funding and numbers - one side organized, well-stocked and equipped with jump bridge infrastructure whereas the other nothing but a rag-tag band of rascals deploying from anywhere between Alaska and Nebraska.
If only you'd fought. |
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
220
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 20:16:21 -
[479] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Last night Ya0 passively regen'd back to secure because literally no one bothered to show at all.
These would be "sure wins", if anyone cared enough to try, except they don't. No they wouldn't, the moment an Imperium fleet shows up to do anything about it, everyone would dogpile into the system and obliterate them. This is what has happened every time they've put up a defense fleet this war, which is why I don't understand why you're so shocked and appalled that they've stopped doing that.
DBRB taking out a few "sword fleets" on his Twitch stream hardly counts as seriously trying to defend, Lucas.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 21:12:55 -
[480] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Do you know what you sound like right now? An EVE player?
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:That's not what I heard in this thread. In fact, please allow me to quote some highlights: All that shows is that times change. Early on in the war the opinions were different but as it became rapidly apparent that it was a completely futile attempt the stance changed. Are you seriously suggesting because early on I had faith in our ability to push through that my opinion is never allowed to change no matter what the circumstance?
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:DBRB taking out a few "sword fleets" on his Twitch stream hardly counts as seriously trying to defend, Lucas. And those aren't the only fleets that went out. That may be the case now because there's no point in sending out anything else.
Noone sane throws away ships into a fight they can't possible win and can't even draw. There's simply no point in the Imperium fielding fleets at this point. That you guys seem to think that preserving their ships is against whatever e-honour bullshit you've made up is irrelevant.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
|
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations RAZOR Alliance
535
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 21:49:23 -
[481] - Quote
Win lose draw, its content
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 22:16:22 -
[482] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:Win lose draw, its content Then why do any players ever run from a fight? Why do people spend all day playing docking games rather than just losing their ships? Why do warp stabs, nullfied ships and cloaks even exist? Why don't people fill ships with plex and fly headlong into war targets scream "YAY CONTENT".
People are all fine with running and hiding until it's their enemy doing it, then suddenly it's bad form.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
126
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 22:47:06 -
[483] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Then why do any players ever run from a fight? Why do people spend all day playing docking games rather than just losing their ships? Why do warp stabs, nullfied ships and cloaks even exist? Why don't people fill ships with plex and fly headlong into war targets scream "YAY CONTENT".
People are all fine with running and hiding until it's their enemy doing it, then suddenly it's bad form.
Because most people are carebears and incredibly risk averse. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 22:54:34 -
[484] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Then why do any players ever run from a fight? Why do people spend all day playing docking games rather than just losing their ships? Why do warp stabs, nullfied ships and cloaks even exist? Why don't people fill ships with plex and fly headlong into war targets scream "YAY CONTENT".
People are all fine with running and hiding until it's their enemy doing it, then suddenly it's bad form. Because most people are carebears and incredibly risk averse. Yep, pretty much agreed, that's EVE. Why is it suddenly a problem now goons are doing it?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
220
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 23:14:25 -
[485] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:DBRB taking out a few "sword fleets" on his Twitch stream hardly counts as seriously trying to defend, Lucas. And those aren't the only fleets that went out. That may be the case now because there's no point in sending out anything else. Noone sane throws away ships into a fight they can't possible win and can't even draw. There's simply no point in the Imperium fielding fleets at this point. That you guys seem to think that preserving their ships is against whatever e-honour bullshit you've made up is irrelevant.
They are fielding fleets, though. Not fleets to defend Deklein. Fleets to do something or other to Pandemic Horde in O1Y. It seems pretty pointless to me since they're not getting anywhere but that's what Mittani seems to think is important.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
215
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 23:28:25 -
[486] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Then why do any players ever run from a fight? Why do people spend all day playing docking games rather than just losing their ships? Why do warp stabs, nullfied ships and cloaks even exist? Why don't people fill ships with plex and fly headlong into war targets scream "YAY CONTENT".
People are all fine with running and hiding until it's their enemy doing it, then suddenly it's bad form. Because most people are carebears and incredibly risk averse. Yep, pretty much agreed, that's EVE. Why is it suddenly a problem now goons are doing it? This is such rubbish that is commonly posted in the forum.
Docking up in the face of uncontrollable risk doesn't make you risk averse, whether you are a bee guy or someone else.
It's just simply that people are not openly suicidal with their assets when they face a situation they correctly conclude they can't win. There are the rare 420blazeit types who just go for it anyway, but even they don't do that all the time.
If you are faced with a level of risk you know you can't counter, avoiding that situation doesn't mean you are risk averse. It just means in that one particular encounter you weren't in a position to control it, either to make you stronger or to at least make the odds relatively even.
There are a lot of players who undock when things are even'ish and take a risk. But what's the point undocking to just be hammered. That isn't fun for most people unless there is another motivating factor.
But this stupid call of 'risk aversion' is silly. Goons have shown over and over that they aren't risk averse, so why all of a sudden are they now. They aren't. They have just correctly surmised they can't win certain engagements, so would prefer to save their ships rather than feed fun to the enemy. That seems a perfectly reasonable decision that most would make. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
175
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 23:35:33 -
[487] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:But by having a rainy day fund, you aren't going 100% at your foes. And if you are going to cut your losses before you lose everything, why not cut them as soon as you know you can't win?
You either didn't understand the context of the comment or you just wanted to spin to get that response.
I was speaking about your 'main' that's in the corp/alliance. If you have backup funds, you blast away like mad with the rest of your corp/alliance mates. If you lose, you only lose the money/assets they can see and what you have invested. So, in essence, you've lost as much as they have.
If they are doing the same thing, you guys went down fighting but hey you lived to fight another day. No need to appear to retreat or surrender space. You fight at full power.
You certainly can cut them as soon as you know you can't win... this is called a peace accord and it's how wars end. You make a deal and that's that. However, you also have to deal with the fallout of that.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 23:48:15 -
[488] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Docking up in the face of uncontrollable risk doesn't make you risk averse, whether you are a bee guy or someone else.
It's just simply that people are not openly suicidal with their assets when they face a situation they correctly conclude they can't win. There are the rare 420blazeit types who just go for it anyway, but even they don't do that all the time.
If you are faced with a level of risk you know you can't counter, avoiding that situation doesn't mean you are risk averse. It just means in that one particular encounter you weren't in a position to control it, either to make you stronger or to at least make the odds relatively even.
There are a lot of players who undock when things are even'ish and take a risk. But what's the point undocking to just be hammered. That isn't fun for most people unless there is another motivating factor.
But this stupid call of 'risk aversion' is silly. Goons have shown over and over that they aren't risk averse, so why all of a sudden are they now. They aren't. They have just correctly surmised they can't win certain engagements, so would prefer to save their ships rather than feed fun to the enemy. That seems a perfectly reasonable decision that most would make. Completely agree.
Pandora Carrollon wrote:You either didn't understand the context of the comment or you just wanted to spin to get that response.
I was speaking about your 'main' that's in the corp/alliance. If you have backup funds, you blast away like mad with the rest of your corp/alliance mates. If you lose, you only lose the money/assets they can see and what you have invested. So, in essence, you've lost as much as they have.
If they are doing the same thing, you guys went down fighting but hey you lived to fight another day. No need to appear to retreat or surrender space. You fight at full power.
You certainly can cut them as soon as you know you can't win... this is called a peace accord and it's how wars end. You make a deal and that's that. However, you also have to deal with the fallout of that. I both understood and had no intention of spinning. If you are keeping something back then you are not going 100%, and if you are keeping something back there's no reason not to keep more back when you know you will just lose anyway. I might buy 100 ships intent on going out and fighting, and after losing 50 ships realise that nothing I can do will allow me to win. I wouldn't then keep undocking the other 50 knowing full well I'd lose them, would I? I'd hold them back and rebuild until I had a chance.
A peace accord is an agreement with the enemy over a fight. What goons are doing is retreating, which is a valid and widely used tactic.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
126
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 23:50:00 -
[489] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Yep, pretty much agreed, that's EVE. Why is it suddenly a problem now goons are doing it?
It's not suddenly a problem with goons. It's always been a problem with CFC (and most of sov). Sov null has been a plague to the game where risk averse bears hide. Goons, being the largest group in null simply showcase this fact more than most.
If you want to own space, defend it or die trying, otherwise, stay in high/low. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1746
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 05:47:06 -
[490] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:If you want to own space, defend it or die trying, otherwise, stay in high/low. Well.. they do this very thing at the moment. And all the MBC fanatics are running circles and crying 'why gons dont fight?'
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
|
Shayla Etherodyne
United Nations Industrial Holdings
15
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 06:12:40 -
[491] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:If you want to own space, defend it or die trying, otherwise, stay in high/low. Well.. they do this very thing at the moment. And all the MBC fanatics are running circles and crying 'why gons dont fight?'
It is a direct reply to theirs previous posturing. When you beat your chest and call yourself invincible and then, when threatened, you hide in stations, people start to call you names. Technically they had the strength to defend, after all they weren't 40K strong? But that was a paper number apparently, not their real strength. It seen that the active muster is a tiny fraction of that. If that is true it is logic for them to hide and try to save their personal assets, but that show them as a paper tiger, and that is doing a lot of damage to the Goons reputation.
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 06:26:19 -
[492] - Quote
The problem is. Goons where always proudly describing themself as "bad ass guys". When they get to the real test there's nothing. THATS the problem. I also don't understand Lucas defending the goons. He's member of SMA and SMA did the right thing: They got hammered, accepted the defeat and moved out. That's okay. You need balls to accept a defeat. But goon don't accept defeat but also don't want to fight.
This is a game and it's about fun, the meta is second. If you take a look at the beginning the Goons invaded low and got their heads handed by much smaller and mostly disorganized corps. These corps fought for their space even when they where outnumbered. The wave started as other corps realized that Goons can be beaten and after the first fights goons rolled over and played dead. Now they are whining that the odds are bad: So what? What did you do in fights bevor?
The main thing is that goons are either clever just docking and playing meta OR they are bad assed pirates fighting for their turf. But they can't be both things. This tactic is clever but in the long run it can break the goons because it is destroying their nimbus. If they did a last stand they could go with their heads hehlt high but this tactic is the same as by any carebear corp which the goons always detested. Look at Lucas complaining about IWI. 40000 members + renters and Goon can't match 1 guy with a gambling empire? Your real? If you take a closer look at the war chest of your members and not only on the corp chest IWI is a pauper!
BTW: IWI is totally passiv income so you can step up ratting etc but IWI has to wait for the customers to come. They can't do nothing to improve income.
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
17
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 06:59:55 -
[493] - Quote
fofofofofofolucasfofofofofofofofo fofofofofofolucasfofofofofofofofo fofofofofofolucasfofofofofofofofo
Darius logged back in game
The end times are nigh. I cannot wait until he starts posting again..... Wait til he reads the salty-posing-as-smugdon't care" Lucas postings.......
Wheeeeeeeee WWBeeeeeeeeee |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1746
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 08:04:37 -
[494] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:March rabbit wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:If you want to own space, defend it or die trying, otherwise, stay in high/low. Well.. they do this very thing at the moment. And all the MBC fanatics are running circles and crying 'why gons dont fight?' It is a direct reply to theirs previous posturing. When you beat your chest and call yourself invincible and then, when threatened, you hide in stations, people start to call you names. Technically they had the strength to defend, after all they weren't 40K strong? But that was a paper number apparently, not their real strength. It seen that the active muster is a tiny fraction of that. That is true for almost every EveO organisation. Except, maybe, some low-sec pirates or trade hub campers who has nothing else to do. Every organisation has some amount of active players, some alts and lots of carebears. You never see 100% in fleets.
And here you are talking about 0.0-sec alliance. In such organisations you always have lots of renters, bears and other non-active members. Do you remember Legion of xDeathx with its Shadow of xDeathx? Back in 2011-2012 those 2 alliances were like 10 thousand players 'strong'. But in reality we (i was there (c) ) rarely could get full fleet even for important CTAs. At the same time i had about 12 alts in the corporation.
It's very strange to hear this like it's some kind of news really....
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:If that is true it is logic for them to hide and try to save their personal assets, but that show them as a paper tiger, and that is doing a lot of damage to the Goons reputation. not really. If you were in Eve Online for more than 2 months you can remember lots of wins and losses for many other alliances too. It's just normal for some alliance to grow, become top then fall. Some of those disappear. Others return.
I guess the real 'goon reputation' will be seen couple months after. If GSF just disappear into nothing then yes. If they return - we will see.
Monkeying around MBC propaganda just makes you (not you personally) look like short attention span.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 10:15:36 -
[495] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Look at Lucas complaining about IWI. 40000 members + renters and Goon can't match 1 guy with a gambling empire? Your real? If you take a closer look at the war chest of your members and not only on the corp chest IWI is a pauper! Of course they can't. Aside from IWI being able to rake in trillions legitimately, they can also shill out extra isk when they need it, and there's no way of stopping them. On the other hand, everything goons to to make isk can be stopped by their enemies. This is what happens when only one side has to play by the game mechanics and the other is free to use a third party application instead.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3354
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 10:18:05 -
[496] - Quote
Dear Lucas, please stop crying, your tears are starting to damage my computer!
This is not a signature.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
215
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 10:22:39 -
[497] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Look at Lucas complaining about IWI. 40000 members + renters and Goon can't match 1 guy with a gambling empire? Your real? If you take a closer look at the war chest of your members and not only on the corp chest IWI is a pauper! Of course they can't. Aside from IWI being able to rake in trillions legitimately, they can also shill out extra isk when they need it, and there's no way of stopping them. On the other hand, everything goons to to make isk can be stopped by their enemies. This is what happens when only one side has to play by the game mechanics and the other is free to use a third party application instead. Weren't some SMA members part of the IWI network?
Isn't a theft by SMA of 300 Billion a big part of the motivation for IWI to fund the allies?
Seems, if the bee guys and the broader Emporium want to now complain about IWI, then possibly they shouldn't have killed the golden goose. Then they could still be taking in that same ISK you are now complaining about.
Apparently ok while SMA are slurping at the trough, but bad after they've shot themselves in the foot. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 10:37:55 -
[498] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Of course they can't. Aside from IWI being able to rake in trillions legitimately, they can also shill out extra isk when they need it, and there's no way of stopping them. On the other hand, everything goons to to make isk can be stopped by their enemies. This is what happens when only one side has to play by the game mechanics and the other is free to use a third party application instead.
Okay, does anyone have numbers how much IWI invested? IWI may be really rich but they don't have some ISK printing machine. They have to maintain their normal business so they have limits how much money they can spend on the war. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 11:09:57 -
[499] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Weren't some SMA members part of the IWI network?
Isn't a theft by SMA of 300 Billion a big part of the motivation for IWI to fund the allies?
Seems, if the bee guys and the broader Emporium want to now complain about IWI, then possibly they shouldn't have killed the golden goose. Then they could still be taking in that same ISK you are now complaining about.
Apparently ok while SMA are slurping at the trough, but bad after they've shot themselves in the foot. Some SMA members helped build it.
The "theft" was actually just a butthurt SMA player who tried to take back what he'd given to his corp and was denied that. After that IWI threatened to withhold isk SMA members were owed and SMA members who knew someone with access rights recovered it.
It really doesn't matter who's getting the isk, it's bad for the game to have an untouchable income source either way. Even before this war I was of that opinion.
Geronimo McVain wrote:Okay, does anyone have numbers how much IWI invested? IWI may be really rich but they don't have some ISK printing machine. They have to maintain their normal business so they have limits how much money they can spend on the war. They practically do. They have trillions and even through normal operation earn more than any alliance does. With shilling they have access to practically unlimited funds. This is why for a laugh they bought enough SP to cap a character. People are happy with it now because it's goons getting their teeth kicked in, but the reality is that IWI could afford to destroy any alliance in the game and there no way to actually attack them with in-game mechanics.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
220
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 11:10:05 -
[500] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Look at Lucas complaining about IWI. 40000 members + renters and Goon can't match 1 guy with a gambling empire? Your real? If you take a closer look at the war chest of your members and not only on the corp chest IWI is a pauper! Of course they can't. Aside from IWI being able to rake in trillions legitimately, they can also shill out extra isk when they need it, and there's no way of stopping them. On the other hand, everything goons to to make isk can be stopped by their enemies. This is what happens when only one side has to play by the game mechanics and the other is free to use a third party application instead. Weren't some SMA members part of the IWI network?
Yes. Director-level SMA members.
Quote:Isn't a theft by SMA of 300 Billion a big part of the motivation for IWI to fund the allies?
Yes indeed. The behavior of a certain SMA director wrt IWI, and the aftermath of that behavior, was one of the major catalysts for this war.
Quote:Seems, if the bee guys and the broader Emporium want to now complain about IWI, then possibly they shouldn't have killed the golden goose. Then they could still be taking in that same ISK you are now complaining about.
Apparently ok while SMA are slurping at the trough, but bad after they've shot themselves in the foot.
This is all true and I suspect it's the reason why Lucas here is so single-mindedly obsessed with casinos and IWI in particular, given that at least one of the SMA directors in question and a spouse (who originally came from the same corp as Lucas, coincidentally) were heavily involved with IWI and had had a falling out with him even prior to the more public incident involving the more notorious Winet.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1746
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 11:10:56 -
[501] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Of course they can't. Aside from IWI being able to rake in trillions legitimately, they can also shill out extra isk when they need it, and there's no way of stopping them. On the other hand, everything goons to to make isk can be stopped by their enemies. This is what happens when only one side has to play by the game mechanics and the other is free to use a third party application instead.
Okay, does anyone have numbers how much IWI invested? IWI may be really rich but they don't have some ISK printing machine. They have to maintain their normal business so they have limits how much money they can spend on the war. quote from Reddit:
Quote:Eh, iwi paid us 15b a day in TISHU to just blops SMA. It's 1 alliance in coalition. Not the biggest i guess. I'm not sure if this number is correct or if this number can be used to guesstimate the whole expenses of IWI...
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17695
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 11:45:08 -
[502] - Quote
Bliss tells me that he was offered 500b to drop init from the coalition.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
247
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 12:01:10 -
[503] - Quote
How does INIT fit into the Imperium anyway? For one, they're actually good PvP'ers. And secondly, they only moved north to shoot stuff; it's not like they live there or anything.
Could you please explain this odd behaviour to an outsider? Are you guys like the Iron Fist of the imperium or what? Because as far as I can tell, you operate as an entirely separate entity, much like section 8.
Care to fill in the part I'm missing? |
Hawke Frost
22
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 12:15:54 -
[504] - Quote
INIT has always been an outsider like that, in a good way. But joining Imperium did raise an eyebrow, just like how it did when ETNY joined GS. |
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
131
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 14:33:08 -
[505] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:This is what happens when only one side has to play by the game mechanics and the other is free to use a third party application instead.
Playing the meta game is valid game mechanics. Goons tried to start a gambling site and failed. Accept that IWI beat them at that particular part of the very valid way of earning ISK and move on. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7486
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 15:28:25 -
[506] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:This is what happens when only one side has to play by the game mechanics and the other is free to use a third party application instead. Playing the meta game is valid game mechanics. Goons tried to start a gambling site and failed. Accept that IWI beat them at that particular part of the very valid way of earning ISK and move on. But that's not "playing the meta game". That's like saying hitting the server with A DDOS is metagaming, it's ridiculous. It's just cheating, plain and simple. And IWI beat everyone. How can you move on knowing that one group of players have free reign to pick and choose who else gets to play because they use third party software to give them an uncounterable edge. I know you're too blinded by bias to get it, but consider that what they are doing is only good for you because it's goons they are hitting. They could very well do the same to any alliance and there'd equally be no way to stop them.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
131
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 16:30:25 -
[507] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:But that's not "playing the meta game". That's like saying hitting the server with A DDOS is metagaming, it's ridiculous. It's just cheating, plain and simple. And IWI beat everyone. How can you move on knowing that one group of players have free reign to pick and choose who else gets to play because they use third party software to give them an uncounterable edge. I know you're too blinded by bias to get it, but consider that what they are doing is only good for you because it's goons they are hitting. They could very well do the same to any alliance and there'd equally be no way to stop them.
And now we're back to "anything that Lucas doesn't like/can't do with EVE is cheating"
Grow up. EVE literally wouldn't exist without third party software. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
247
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 17:14:01 -
[508] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:How can you move on knowing that one group of players have free reign to pick and choose who else gets to play because they use third party software to give them an uncounterable edge. I know you're too blinded by bias to get it, but consider that what they are doing is only good for you because it's goons they are hitting. They could very well do the same to any alliance and there'd equally be no way to stop them.
Now we're getting somewhere. You do realise this is how many of us saw Goons too, right? (or any other big bloc for that matter -- the only thing keeping big blocs in check is the presence of other big blocs).
Once we saw nobody could stand up to The Goon, we trod very carefully knowing that one group of players had free reign - and we moved on.
The same problem will arise when all of a sudden, "PL can't be stopped!" ... except there is no entity that cannot be stopped. This war happening has greatly improved my faith in EvE, not diminished it. This IS moving on. Have faith that everything and everyone can be challenged.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
223
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 20:38:49 -
[509] - Quote
Just saw this on Polygon and not posted anywhere so far. Interesting read:
http://www.polygon.com/2016/4/20/11467726/meet-the-gambling-kingpin-funding-eve-onlines-biggest-war
Much better article than that disaster piece posted a few days ago. |
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
141
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 20:49:38 -
[510] - Quote
"I would love to see the old Goonswarm come back," Joe says. "The 2007, 2008 version of them. Back then, they were obnoxious and uncouth, but they werenGÇÖt malicious. They were funny. They were goofy. But they were also kind of scary, because they had astronomical amounts of people. ... I want them to go back to their roots, go back to where they were."
Interesting....hmmm
Oh and 4 trillion cash, 8-9 trillion in assets and spending about a trillion a week... quick easy math suggests a few more months of this but I doubt he'd blow it all right? |
|
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
175
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 21:30:27 -
[511] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:[quote=Shae Tadaruwa
Oh and 4 trillion cash, 8-9 trillion in assets and spending about a trillion a week... quick easy math suggests a few more months of this but I doubt he'd blow it all right?
He could stop paying today and it would make no difference, the blood is in the water, the feeding frenzy has started. When goons have lost all sov. there maybe a reduction in action and numbers against them, but if they want to go back to what they where a month ago....it just wont happen. As long as Mittens is in game as a hate figure they are truly screwed.
No one wants to ruin the game....just his game
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7487
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 22:16:21 -
[512] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:And now we're back to "anything that Lucas doesn't like/can't do with EVE is cheating" No, we're not, we're back to you saying it's fine that someone can earn trillions of isk with a third party program which they would not be able to earn without it.
Isaac Armer wrote:Grow up. EVE literally wouldn't exist without third party software. Sure, but then it wouldn't exist if bots were able to run rampant either because they give an unfair advantage to the user.
Isaac Armer wrote:Why do you think I'm biased? I'm not on either side of this war. I couldn't care less what the outcome is. I am 100% neutral, whereas you were forced to leave CFC because of this. Between the two of us you are the only one with any personal biases here. Because it's impossible for me to see a third party application which gives an advantage this great as fair, so for you to see it that way, it screams bias. Plus let's face it, your comments have hardly been without a hint of bias. There's also the whole "I must call then CFC" thing which pretty much guarantees it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7487
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 22:20:07 -
[513] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Now we're getting somewhere. You do realise this is how many of us saw Goons too, right? (or any other big bloc for that matter -- the only thing keeping big blocs in check is the presence of other big blocs).
Once we saw nobody could stand up to The Goon, we trod very carefully knowing that one group of players had free reign - and we moved on.
The same problem will arise when all of a sudden, "PL can't be stopped!" ... except there is no entity that cannot be stopped. This war happening has greatly improved my faith in EvE, not diminished it. This IS moving on. Have faith that everything and everyone can be challenged. But that was only ever in-game mechanics. You chose not to attack because you thought the enemy too powerful. In the case of IWI, there is no way to fight it, since it's not in game. It's a third party application.
Prt Scr wrote:He could stop paying today and it would make no difference, the blood is in the water, the feeding frenzy has started. When goons have lost all sov. there maybe a reduction in action and numbers against them, but if they want to go back to what they where a month ago....it just wont happen. As long as Mittens is in game as a hate figure they are truly screwed. It won't make a difference here but it certainly will for whatever target he chooses to remove from the game next. IWI have won EVE, so everyone else may as well not be here. It's not like any other players can actually be competitive against that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
223
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 22:37:09 -
[514] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:And now we're back to "anything that Lucas doesn't like/can't do with EVE is cheating" No, we're not, we're back to you saying it's fine that someone can earn trillions of isk with a third party program which they would not be able to earn without it.
You know what, Lucas? It is fine. Why is it fine? It's fine because CCP allows it. When they decide it isn't fine, then it isn't fine. Until then, all your whining about it is just that, whining.
Cripes.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
135
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 22:38:24 -
[515] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, we're not, we're back to you saying it's fine that someone can earn trillions of isk with a third party program which they would not be able to earn without it.
Literally no major alliance could earn the trillions of ISK they do without out of game third party tools to manage their organizations. Your cherry picking is ridiculous.
Quote:Sure, but then it wouldn't exist if bots were able to run rampant either because they give an unfair advantage to the user
We aren't talking about bots. Stay on topic.
Quote:Because it's impossible for me to see a third party application which gives an advantage this great as fair, so for you to see it that way, it screams bias. Plus let's face it, your comments have hardly been without a hint of bias. There's also the whole "I must call then CFC" thing which pretty much guarantees it.
So anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion is biased? Come on man. You can do better than that. I am 100% in favor of CFC/Imperium/goons/whatever name you want to use using 3rd party apps to build, maintain and run their empire for years and make trillions upon trillions of ISK because of it. I am also 100% in favor of IWI using a website to show the results of in-game donations given to real players in real time using valid in-game mechanics to make trillions of ISK.
Good for both organizations for finding a way to make bank and be successful in game. No bias there chief.
I eagerly await your next reply, telling me how wrong I am b/c I don't agree with your personal opinion. |
Jason Galente
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
242
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 23:13:08 -
[516] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:DBRB taking out a few "sword fleets" on his Twitch stream hardly counts as seriously trying to defend, Lucas. And those aren't the only fleets that went out. That may be the case now because there's no point in sending out anything else. Noone sane throws away ships into a fight they can't possible win and can't even draw. There's simply no point in the Imperium fielding fleets at this point. That you guys seem to think that preserving their ships is against whatever e-honour bullshit you've made up is irrelevant. They are fielding fleets, though. Not fleets to defend Deklein. Fleets to do something or other to Pandemic Horde in O1Y. It seems pretty pointless to me since they're not getting anywhere but that's what Mittani seems to think is important.
They're mainly just trying to kill ratters in Catalysts, maybe a few frigates off the station with bombers, and newbies with mining frigates in belts. What a great war strategy. Meanwhile, we are blitzkrieging constellations, because when we form up in fleets, they can't do **** about it.
Also, it's not much of a fighting man's fleet when the ships are named "RUN!!! FAST!!! QUICK!!" and they're in interceptors.
We've had really no problem countering them with cormorants, thrashers and T3Ds
Them going after horde, mainly our newbeans, stragglers and ratters is a sign of weakness. They get ROFLstomped when they go against anyone else, and they still get ROFLstomped when we form up fleets to oppose them. I think they think they're increasing morale trading purifiers for Merlins.
If you need more proof of how badly the goons are cascade-failing, last saturday, dabigredboat said he'd have 01Y captured within 48 hours.
top kek.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
223
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 23:46:31 -
[517] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:DBRB taking out a few "sword fleets" on his Twitch stream hardly counts as seriously trying to defend, Lucas. And those aren't the only fleets that went out. That may be the case now because there's no point in sending out anything else. Noone sane throws away ships into a fight they can't possible win and can't even draw. There's simply no point in the Imperium fielding fleets at this point. That you guys seem to think that preserving their ships is against whatever e-honour bullshit you've made up is irrelevant. They are fielding fleets, though. Not fleets to defend Deklein. Fleets to do something or other to Pandemic Horde in O1Y. It seems pretty pointless to me since they're not getting anywhere but that's what Mittani seems to think is important. They're mainly just trying to kill ratters in Catalysts, maybe a few frigates off the station with bombers, and newbies with mining frigates in belts. What a great war strategy. Meanwhile, we are blitzkrieging constellations, because when we form up in fleets, they can't do **** about it. Also, it's not much of a fighting man's fleet when the ships are named "RUN!!! FAST!!! QUICK!!" and they're in interceptors. We've had really no problem countering them with cormorants, thrashers and T3Ds Them going after horde, mainly our newbeans, stragglers and ratters is a sign of weakness. They get ROFLstomped when they go against anyone else, and they still get ROFLstomped when we form up fleets to oppose them. I think they think they're increasing morale trading purifiers for Merlins. If you need more proof of how badly the goons are cascade-failing, last saturday, dabigredboat said he'd have 01Y captured within 48 hours. top kek.
Yeah, mostly just teasing Lucas, who appears utterly clueless about what is really happening.
Goons won't even be able to do what they're doing now once Horde mops up their staging towers
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7487
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 00:28:55 -
[518] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:You know what, Lucas? It is fine. Why is it fine? It's fine because CCP allows it. When they decide it isn't fine, then it isn't fine. Until then, all your whining about it is just that, whining. And why do you think it is CCP makes decisions? Because players give feedback. I get it, I have an opinion that differs to yours, therefore you feel I should not be allowed to express that. I disagree.
Isaac Armer wrote:Literally no major alliance could earn the trillions of ISK they do without out of game third party tools to manage their organizations. Your cherry picking is ridiculous Except it's not cherry picking, as previously detailed, it's simply prioritising. I'd happily be rid of all third party software, but I consider an application like IWI which allows a select group of people to make trillions of isk in a short space of time a considerable more unfair advantage than people using jabber for example. You seem to consider them equal which is fine. Ridiculous, but fine.
Isaac Armer wrote:We aren't talking about bots. Stay on topic. No, we're talking about a different piece of third party software that has a similar - and in fact considerably more pronounced - effect of distorting the economic balance of players within the game.
Isaac Armer wrote:So anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion is biased? That's not even remotely what I said, but feel free to keep smacking that strawman if it makes you feel better.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
224
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 00:55:46 -
[519] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:You know what, Lucas? It is fine. Why is it fine? It's fine because CCP allows it. When they decide it isn't fine, then it isn't fine. Until then, all your whining about it is just that, whining. And why do you think it is CCP makes decisions? Because players give feedback.
Feedback. Not an endless feedback loop. You're like the Jimi Hendrix of anti-IWI feedback, except terrible.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Bleedingthrough
201
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 02:57:13 -
[520] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: And IWI beat everyone. How can you move on knowing that one group of players have free reign to pick and choose who else gets to play because they use third party software to give them an uncounterable edge. I know you're too blinded by bias to get it, but consider that what they are doing is only good for you because it's goons they are hitting. They could very well do the same to any alliance and there'd equally be no way to stop them.
You overrate the importance of ISK. Here is why you are wrong:
1.You can have all ISK in the game but you wonGÇÖt win anything unless you actually have motivated warriors to win a war. On paper The Imperium has both numbers and ISK. Does it make a difference? No, because motivation is the key.
2.Eep eep could surely hire some mercs to bring down other sov holding alliances but it would not gain the momentum it has against grrrGoons. ISK is not everything and I doubt you would find any decent merc group that would accept contracts against opponents that will not provide kill mails or prestige. Warriors want to fight for the fun of it and not grind uncontested sov. Good leaders understand this and keep the people that matter happy.
3.It is 2016 and the important/deciding people are filthy rich. These people that ask themselves GÇ£should I get a rev or a titan on my 3rd accountGÇ¥ donGÇÖt do anything for ISK if it didnGÇÖt coincide with their own goals. IWI is merely sponsoring what they want to do anyways.
4.We EvE players are social beings. Friendship, respect and reputation outweigh any ISK incentives by a long shot. These are the only real currencies in EvE that matter. Gevlons ISK canGÇÖt buy me content, this currency can and sometimes it is earned by providing content by being a good enemy - a foreign concept to The Mittani. Good enemies come to the fanfest with their sov intact; the worst possible enemy alienated all of his allies and probably lost more supers in a Fabian strategy than in B-R without providing content for his lads.
5.The reasons why the injection of ISK kickstarted the fall of The Imperium are very unique. The Imperium is politically isolated and made a lot of enemies in the past. They lost the propaganda war when they lost to smallish lowsec groups. This was a PR disaster for them and it became plain obvious how weak the goons are and that it is possible to defeat them. There was nothing going on in Nullsec for a long time and a lot of groups are eager for content. The Imperium is a good target (prestige and supers) and the people involved write EvE history. This is the first and only real war with this sov mechanic, old capitals and without citadels.
|
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
31
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 06:23:29 -
[521] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:t won't make a difference here but it certainly will for whatever target he chooses to remove from the game next. IWI have won EVE, so everyone else may as well not be here. It's not like any other players can actually be competitive against that. Not everyone is a evil goon. Lets face it: Most people are in because they want to hurt goons and the money is a nice extra. Second: I would bet that goons can match this amount of money, they had huge Sov, and renters etc for many years. So either Mitten spend it all for weed or the goons should easily match this money plus a lot more if you take a look at the personal warchest of goonmembers. Most senior goons should have multi billions on their own and you have a lot of these. You where saying yourself that you needed to do a lot of ratting to hold you Sov so where is all that money?
Most people where willing to go for the goons even before it all started and that's not true for anyone else. They just thought they wouldn't stand no chance against goons but when they saw a chance they jumped for it. Do you really think that PL and the others need the money so badly that they will start quaking when he says frog?
You are reminding me of some German soccers teams: When they win they are the best, when they loose it's the referees fault not their own short coming or that the other team was simply better. So please stop whinning about IWI, grab a ship, cash out you assets and even the odds: ingame! Even the former leader of Goon is leaving and will you accuse him to be afraid of IWIs Isk? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 07:46:59 -
[522] - Quote
Bleedingthrough wrote:You overrate the importance of ISK. Here is why you are wrong: No, you are just underestimating it. Yo claim people need a motivator, but isk can be that motivator. Any other rich player has a finite amount of isk and in-game methods of earnin it which can be affected by other players IWI has an effectively unlimited supply as cannot be affected by any in-game methods. That's the problem, it all comes down to whether there a way in game to attack the enemy. IWI uses third party software to earn their isk, so there's no way another player can stop them short of breaking some real life laws.
Geronimo McVain wrote:Not everyone is a evil goon. I'm sure goons aren't the only people IWI don't like.They could kick out anyone they don't want, and there's nothing anyone could do to stop them.
Geronimo McVain wrote:Lets face it: Most people are in because they want to hurt goons and the money is a nice extra. That might be the case now that momentum is going, but it's undeniable that this is happening because of the money.
Geronimo McVain wrote:Second: I would bet that goons can match this amount of money, they had huge Sov, and renters etc for many years. So either Mitten spend it all for weed or the goons should easily match this money plus a lot more if you take a look at the personal warchest of goonmembers. Not a chance. Not only will the warchest definitely be smaller than what IWI have saved, but goon income can be (and is) attacked. Nothing IWI does to earn isk can be attacked, so they don't even need to spend from their saved cash they can happily spend their income. On the article they did with polygon one guy explains he is personally spending over a trillion a week and covering most of that with his weekly income.
Geronimo McVain wrote:You are reminding me of some German soccers teams: When they win they are the best, when they loose it's the referees fault not their own short coming or that the other team was simply better. So please stop whinning about IWI, grab a ship, cash out you assets and even the odds: ingame! Even the former leader of Goon is leaving and will you accuse him to be afraid of IWIs Isk? Except of course that I complained about these casinos long before this war. All this war has done is emphasise the need to get rid of these casinos which I've wanted for years. There's no odds to even, IWI cannot be attacked and all the time that's the case they can just keep throwing ships into the mix. there's no way the Imperium will survive that. SMA are out of the war now and I'll give it a good go at helping them rebuild, but quite honestly failing that I'll just shut down all but a couple of accounts, move to highsec and just go back to casual ganking and a little trading to keep the lights on. No point in spending time in the rest of the game if CCP are allowing cheaters to run rampant. It's impossible to compete with players like that, so it should just not be attempted. That's not whining, that's reality.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
705
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 09:24:28 -
[523] - Quote
The problem with the 'IWIs ISk is the only reason this war is happening' narrative is it ignores the part where goons spent the best part of six years making people hate them enough to want to dogpile them if the chance arose. Take that away and what have you got? A bunch of mercs with no motivation beyond getting paid who stick rigidly to the contract then go home once its done, whereas what we have now is a group thats been motivated enough to blast through six whole regions of sov lasers and node fights and still has the will to make sure goons are ended before we declare things done.
Taking LSV as an example, we had every reason to come and help kick the imperiums ass even before IWI offered us a share of the money. Most of LSV had been fightng the Imperium for almost a month before the IWI thing even broke so their Isk literally means nothing to us, IWI could give up tomorrow and we'd still be out there fleeting up killing goons and burning their stuff.
This war in its most basic form is the imperium in general, and goons in particular, reaping what they've spent years sowing.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
20
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 09:38:54 -
[524] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: ]Except of course that I complained about these Blue Donut blobs long before this war. All this war has done is emphasise the need to get rid of this weaponized boredom which I've wanted for years. There's no odds to even,CFC cannot be attacked and all the time that's the case they can just keep throwing ships into the mix. there's no way the game will survive that. SMA are out of the war now and good riddance. No point in spending time in the rest of the game if CCP are allowing players who know how to PLAY the game beat down our collective asses. It's impossible to compete with quality players like that, so it should just not be attempted. I am a whiner, I bent the knee and got beat down, that's reality.
fofofofofofofofofofoLucasfofofofofofofofofofo
Corrected for reality. Have fun and.....can I have your stuff?
p.s.
luv2club
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 11:14:34 -
[525] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:The problem with the 'IWIs ISk is the only reason this war is happening' narrative is it ignores the part where goons spent the best part of six years making people hate them enough to want to dogpile them if the chance arose. Take that away and what have you got? A bunch of mercs with no motivation beyond getting paid who stick rigidly to the contract then go home once its done, whereas what we have now is a group thats been motivated enough to blast through six whole regions of sov lasers and node fights and still has the will to make sure goons are ended before we declare things done.
Taking LSV as an example, we had every reason to come and help kick the imperiums ass even before IWI offered us a share of the money. Most of LSV had been fightng the Imperium for almost a month before the IWI thing even broke so their Isk literally means nothing to us, IWI could give up tomorrow and we'd still be out there fleeting up killing goons and burning their stuff.
This war in its most basic form is the imperium in general, and goons in particular, reaping what they've spent years sowing. Except if it wasn't to do with the ISK, there's no reason it wouldn't have already happened. You're seriously trying to suggest that people just so happened to get riled up enough to have this war just at the same time IWI started paying people just by sheer coincidence?
Sister MaryElephant, go back to reddit or at the very least learn to troll a little better.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
224
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 11:53:29 -
[526] - Quote
Hey Lucas Kell, Goons managed to retake C-OK0R, and they renamed the station in honor of you guys:
C-OK0R III - C-OK0R OOK OOK
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Chandelin
Jovian Vengeance
43
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 12:22:02 -
[527] - Quote
Seems to me the stagnation has gone on to long.
Chars wanted to take a massive hit at the imperium and the IWI funding put more chars into the mix.
Even though Goons are dropping outposts and systems like wildfire (called retreating) they are still mixing it up. However you can always tell who your friends are by the mass evac of corps dropping and running away from the imperiums fight.
I do find it interesting that this was seen happening at the start of the year with trickles of PH and Pl etc testing the water on assaults in Fade yet people just overlooked it.
End of the day you have had it good and the wealth has poured in. But when you have to defend it its just a big failscade.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 12:31:35 -
[528] - Quote
Chandelin wrote:End of the day you have had it good and the wealth has poured in. But when you have to defend it its just a big failscade. I think we're still la while from a failscade. And personally I'm still up on isk compared to before the war. No sense into pouring isk into a war against a infinite revenue stream, rather pay for low cost, local entertainment.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Trudeaux Margaret
Pandemic Horde Inc.
225
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 12:45:17 -
[529] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chandelin wrote:End of the day you have had it good and the wealth has poured in. But when you have to defend it its just a big failscade. I think we're still la while from a failscade. And personally I'm still up on isk compared to before the war. No sense into pouring isk into a war against a infinite revenue stream, rather pay for low cost, local entertainment.
I agree, SMA has't totally failscaded, yet.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/SpaceMonkey's_Alliance
But you just took a huge hit with the departure of Lisnave.
> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
|
Chandelin
Jovian Vengeance
44
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 13:20:58 -
[530] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chandelin wrote:End of the day you have had it good and the wealth has poured in. But when you have to defend it its just a big failscade. I think we're still la while from a failscade. And personally I'm still up on isk compared to before the war. No sense into pouring isk into a war against a infinite revenue stream, rather pay for low cost, local entertainment.
Wasn't specifically pointing the finger at SMA,. I guess I should have elaborated a bit more. What I meant was the loss of systems wide was a failscade.
With relevance to the whole of the imperium. I think goons stated it was a tactical retreat and they managed to pull one back today which is good for them.
At least out of this war you will know who your mates are and who the real ones are. |
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
31
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 13:45:56 -
[531] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Except of course that I complained about these casinos long before this war. All this war has done is emphasise the need to get rid of these casinos which I've wanted for years. There's no odds to even, IWI cannot be attacked and all the time that's the case they can just keep throwing ships into the mix. there's no way the Imperium will survive that. SMA are out of the war now and I'll give it a good go at helping them rebuild, but quite honestly failing that I'll just shut down all but a couple of accounts, move to highsec and just go back to casual ganking and a little trading to keep the lights on. No point in spending time in the rest of the game if CCP are allowing cheaters to run rampant. It's impossible to compete with players like that, so it should just not be attempted. That's not whining, that's reality. Sorry, but would you sing the same tune if IWI was supporting goons? Would you agree with the defenders that it is unfair and the goons should stop? Goon lost BEFORE IWI joint the war against the low sec Corps. In the end: live with it. Goon may go down or not, I don't know. The real question is if they can go down with style. Just stop whining that it's all so unfair. Docking up doesn't count as style IMHO. I think that's what you would have told the everyone if IWI had supported goon and goon was winning.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13949
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 14:20:54 -
[532] - Quote
http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/474913-1
Not surprising at all. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 14:37:03 -
[533] - Quote
We've taken a lot of hits, we'll press on though.
Chandelin wrote:Wasn't specifically pointing the finger at SMA,. I guess I should have elaborated a bit more. What I meant was the loss of systems wide was a failscade.
With relevance to the whole of the imperium. I think goons stated it was a tactical retreat and they managed to pull one back today which is good for them.
At least out of this war you will know who your mates are and who the real ones are. Losing stuff in an of itself is not a failscade. A failscade is when negative actions trigger further negative actions and the ultimate loss of the alliance. At this point all of the alliances hit are working to survive rather than collapsing.
Geronimo McVain wrote:Sorry, but would you sing the same tune if IWI was supporting goons? Would you agree with the defenders that it is unfair and the goons should stop? Goon lost BEFORE IWI joint the war against the low sec Corps. In the end: live with it. Goon may go down or not, I don't know. The real question is if they can go down with style. Just stop whining that it's all so unfair. Docking up doesn't count as style IMHO. I think that's what you would have told the everyone if IWI had supported goon and goon was winning. Sure I would, I had that opinion long before they were against goons while they were neutral and the same about all casinos that have existed including the goons one. It's their entire concept of the third party applications I disagree with, not their specific actions. The actions in this war have only convinced me even more that I was right to disagree with them in the first place.
Jenn aSide wrote:http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/474913-1
Not surprising at all. Heh, winning again!
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
136
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 14:54:48 -
[534] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Except it's not cherry picking, as previously detailed, it's simply prioritising. I'd happily be rid of all third party software, but I consider an application like IWI which allows a select group of people to make trillions of isk in a short space of time a considerable more unfair advantage than people using jabber for example. You seem to consider them equal which is fine. Ridiculous, but fine.
So you're in favor of getting rid of all 3rd party voice comms, slack, message boards, hauling calculators, zkillboard, evemon, dotlan, not to mention every alliance's custom apps they use? Yes or no please.
You keep throwing around the term 'unfair' and I'm quickly learning 'unfair' to you translates to "anything I personally am unwilling or uninterested in doing in game"
Quote:No, we're talking about a different piece of third party software that has a similar - and in fact considerably more pronounced - effect of distorting the economic balance of players within the game.
No we aren't. We're talking about an organization that earns 100% of their ISK by in-game bankers working in game to get donations. No botting, no software. Just people getting donations in game.
Quote:That's not even remotely what I said, but feel free to keep smacking that strawman if it makes you feel better.
That's 100% what you've been saying. It's been proven to you time and time again that you're cherry picking one 3rd party app that you don't like, while point-blank ignoring every other 3rd party app that benefits other groups.
That's not just saying anyone who doesn't have your opinion is wrong, it's flat out hypocritical. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 16:13:12 -
[535] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:So you're in favor of getting rid of all 3rd party voice comms, slack, message boards, hauling calculators, zkillboard, evemon, dotlan, not to mention every alliance's custom apps they use? Yes or no please. Yeah, I'm in favor of getting rid of anything that gives and advantage to varying degrees of benefit and availability. Something like voice comms or killboards I'm not going to argue too much with CCP about keeping, things like IWI i definitely will, and if CCP ever said "bots are fine" I'd quit before I accepted that decision.
Isaac Armer wrote:You keep throwing around the term 'unfair' and I'm quickly learning 'unfair' to you translates to "anything I personally am unwilling or uninterested in doing in game" But that's not what it translates to, and I've said nothing to suggest it is. Your own preconceptions might make you read it that way but it's not. Like I said above, it's mainly down to two major factors for me, the degree of benefit gained and the availability of that benefit to the playerbase. Killboards for example I would consider to give a low benefit, as they only help make decisions, and they are open to all players, so they have a wide availability.
3rd party voice comms again are wide availability, and I'd say moderate to low benefit, as they only give a small improvement over in game voice comms in terms of coordination. Bots I would say are high benefit medium availability, since they are relatively easy to obtain and use if you have the knowledge and provide income far exceeding a normal player. IWI I would say is high benefit and low availability, since the isk gained is incredibly high, which the availability is pretty much limited to players who can write it themselves.
A third factor I also consider but in a lesser way is potential for abuse. IWI can be used to mask RMT which makes it pretty risky to allow.
There's also the problem of enforcement. Some applications like excel spreadsheets would be impossible for CCP to prevent the use of, so there has to be a reasonable expectation that CCP could actually prevent an applications use.
Isaac Armer wrote:No we aren't. We're talking about an organization that earns 100% of their ISK by in-game bankers working in game to get donations. No botting, no software. Just people getting donations in game. Note I said "similar effect", not "similar method". The effect is very much similar.
Isaac Armer wrote:That's 100% what you've been saying. It's been proven to you time and time again that you're cherry picking one 3rd party app that you don't like, while point-blank ignoring every other 3rd party app that benefits other groups.
That's not just saying anyone who doesn't have your opinion is wrong, it's flat out hypocritical. But I'm not. As I've explained in depth above and in passing multiple times when you've thrown the same argument at me, I simply have priorities. not to mention that I've specifically stated two applications I believe should be removed rather quick, one is IWI, the other is eve-o preview, an application I use on a daily basis. It's not my fault if you aren't reading posts.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
137
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 16:19:52 -
[536] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:the same old stuff
You haven't explained anything. You simply keep repeating "no fair, he's cheating!"
I ask why you don't start a competing business to combat his and you never give a response. The fact that you think major alliances can make the trillions of ISK they do by holding the space they do without the benefit of anything out of game is simply moronic.
I've read everything you have posted in response to me, and you do nothing but whine. You seem like an incredibly un-creative person. You do realize this is a sandbox, right? Step outside of the box and there are plenty of ways to counter IWI. You just seem unwilling to admit there are playstyles other than your own.
Lucas "anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" Kell, everyone. |
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
142
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 16:31:58 -
[537] - Quote
Well IWI definitely has enough isk to keep this going until all Goon Sov is lost. It seems with about 10 or so systems changing hands daily and 60ish systems left Goons will have no Sov in less than a week or two at that rate. Then the question is this: After the largest and most powerful mega alliance is wiped off the face of nullsec, what happens next?
Will IWI just go back to playing games and having a good time, or will they try something else? I guess we will all know the outcome, but with so much power IWI seems capable of doing almost anything. Here's the rub, Joe has power and can influence others. He may chose to use that power and influence in many different ways, and if he does how exactly are other people going to combat that?
The other side to this, which has nothing to do with IWI, is that now after seeing how to destroy a mega alliance and take over their space pretty quick, what's to stop others from doing so elsewhere? Systems can now change hands relatively quick now. Which is why I wonder if the days of Grrrr mega-alliance are coming to an end. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 16:57:21 -
[538] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:You haven't explained anything. You simply keep repeating "no fair, he's cheating!" Lol? I literally went into great detail as to why that's not the case. The fact that's you've simply dismissed that proves that you're wither so biased you can;t be bothered to read an opposing viewpoint or you are simply trolling.
Isaac Armer wrote:I ask why you don't start a competing business to combat his and you never give a response. I give you a response every time. An out of game application should not be a requirement to remain competitive.
Isaac Armer wrote:The fact that you think major alliances can make the trillions of ISK they do by holding the space they do without the benefit of anything out of game is simply moronic. And again, I never claimed that, you've simply made that up so you can oppose that argument rather than the real arguments I'm making.
Isaac Armer wrote:I've read everything you have posted in response to me That is obviously not true. vOv
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
138
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 17:23:03 -
[539] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:yet again the same stuff
/sigh. Out of game apps are required to remain competitive for literally any major alliance in EVE. Don't you ever wonder why literally every person on these forums disagrees with you? Everyone else must be wrong, not you, right?
One more time Lukey. If out of game apps shouldn't be required to be competitive, then logically you will want to ban the slew of out of game apps that every single major alliance in the game uses to remain competitive.
Lucas "I am un-creative and don't know what a sandbox means" Kell, everyone
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 18:40:00 -
[540] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:/sigh. Out of game apps are required to remain competitive for literally any major alliance in EVE. Don't you ever wonder why literally every person on these forums disagrees with you? Everyone else must be wrong, not you, right? And they shouldn't be. You certainly shouldn't have to write software to remain competitive, which is what you are suggesting.
Isaac Armer wrote:One more time Lukey. If out of game apps shouldn't be required to be competitive, then logically you will want to ban the slew of out of game apps that every single major alliance in the game uses to remain competitive. I know right? Which is why when you asked me that exact question I said yes. Once again, you're inability to read has nothing to do with me.
Isaac "I can't be bothered to read opposibng arguments yet still have the nerve to claim they are wrong" Armer, everyone.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
|
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
711
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 19:03:54 -
[541] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Darek Castigatus wrote:The problem with the 'IWIs ISk is the only reason this war is happening' narrative is it ignores the part where goons spent the best part of six years making people hate them enough to want to dogpile them if the chance arose. Take that away and what have you got? A bunch of mercs with no motivation beyond getting paid who stick rigidly to the contract then go home once its done, whereas what we have now is a group thats been motivated enough to blast through six whole regions of sov lasers and node fights and still has the will to make sure goons are ended before we declare things done.
Taking LSV as an example, we had every reason to come and help kick the imperiums ass even before IWI offered us a share of the money. Most of LSV had been fightng the Imperium for almost a month before the IWI thing even broke so their Isk literally means nothing to us, IWI could give up tomorrow and we'd still be out there fleeting up killing goons and burning their stuff.
This war in its most basic form is the imperium in general, and goons in particular, reaping what they've spent years sowing.
Except if it wasn't to do with the ISK, there's no reason it wouldn't have already happened. You're seriously trying to suggest that people just so happened to get riled up enough to have this war just at the same time IWI started paying people just by sheer coincidence?
Yes thats exactly what I'm saying, the only thing that had to happen was that the Imperium needed to show weakness, which they did when the viceroy program failed and again when LSV kicked them out of lowsec entirely. Look I dont doubt IWIs contributions have helped bring in a bunch of people who might otherwise have sat out the war but as soon as the blood hit the water something like this was going to happen, it was just a matter of when and how big.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
140
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 19:10:36 -
[542] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:]And they shouldn't be. You certainly shouldn't have to write software to remain competitive, which is what you are suggesting.
I respect that that's your opinion, but I disagree. A sandbox environment adds a lot of complexity making it a better game. You don't have to know how to write code. You just have to know how to leverage people in game who do. That's the beauty of the multiplayer aspect. This isn't call of duty.
Quote:I know right? Which is why when you asked me that exact question I said yes. Once again, you're inability to read has nothing to do with me.
Isaac "I can't be bothered to read opposibng arguments yet still have the nerve to claim they are wrong" Armer, everyone.
I hear what you're saying. I disagree with it. I would respect what you're saying more if you weren't cherry picking 3rd party software. Your stance is hypocritical, which is why I can't respect it. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 19:53:21 -
[543] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:Yes thats exactly what I'm saying, the only thing that had to happen was that the Imperium needed to show weakness, which they did when the viceroy program failed and again when LSV kicked them out of lowsec entirely. Look I dont doubt IWIs contributions have helped bring in a bunch of people who might otherwise have sat out the war but as soon as the blood hit the water something like this was going to happen, it was just a matter of when and how big. It might be the case that they would have wanted to, but without the isk to do so they may not have actually done it. The wya I see it, if a dude can afford a trillion a week to pay for mercs then no group is safe, and there's no in game means to fight back.
Isaac Armer wrote:I respect that that's your opinion, but I disagree. A sandbox environment adds a lot of complexity making it a better game. You don't have to know how to write code. You just have to know how to leverage people in game who do. Sandboxes still have their boundaries. At the end of the day if it were fully open then there should be no rules. What people can do they should be able to, so bots should be fully allowed if your want a sandbox with no boundaries.
Isaac Armer wrote:I hear what you're saying. I disagree with it. I would respect what you're saying more if you weren't cherry picking 3rd party software. Your stance is hypocritical, which is why I can't respect it. But I'm not cherry picking, I'm prioritising. Like I said, I'd be happy to see all third party software banned, but some I give more effort in fighting than others based on the impact they have. If anything you are the one with the hypocritical stance, since you're happy to have bots banned, but not happy to have IWI banned. Why is that? They are both third party software and both undeniably give an advantage.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
140
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 20:00:28 -
[544] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Sandboxes still have their boundaries. At the end of the day if it were fully open then there should be no rules. What people can do they should be able to, so bots should be fully allowed if your want a sandbox with no boundaries.
But I'm not cherry picking, I'm prioritising. Like I said, I'd be happy to see all third party software banned, but some I give more effort in fighting than others based on the impact they have. If anything you are the one with the hypocritical stance, since you're happy to have bots banned, but not happy to have IWI banned. Why is that? They are both third party software and both undeniably give an advantage.
I'm 100% convinced you don't listen to yourself when you talk now. Bots aren't people playing in game. IWI gains 100% of isk by player donations to other players actively at a keyboard in game. They haven't earned a red cent outside of the game.
I will repeat that slower, since you seem to have a comprehension problem. As long as it's a player making the ISK in game through in game means (which IWI is, given 100% of ISK trades hands by active players in game) there is no problem. Following your logic, we should ban people from paying ISK for putting together a google doc spreadsheet for an ore buyback program, which is just as ridiculous as what you're saying. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 20:25:39 -
[545] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:I'm 100% convinced you don't listen to yourself when you talk now. Bots aren't people playing in game. IWI gains 100% of isk by player donations to other players actively at a keyboard in game. They haven't earned a red cent outside of the game. Market bots earn 100% of their isk by players buying and selling their items in game. Even mining bots collect only resources which are then sold. And in ALL of those cases - including IWI - the gaining of the income is increased over a normal player by the use of the third party application. Without the application IWI would not make that much isk.
Isaac Armer wrote:since you seem to have a comprehension problem That means absolutely nothing coming from the player who has repeatedly argued against arguments I never made.
Isaac Armer wrote:As long as it's a player making the ISK in game through in game means (which IWI is, given 100% of ISK trades hands by active players in game) there is no problem. Oh, you mean like ISBoxer did for example? Oh wait.. Hell, try to make an EVE bank which allows characters to transfer isk to each other and charge them an isk fee for it, see how quickly you get shut down.
Isaac Armer wrote:Following your logic, we should ban people from paying ISK for putting together a google doc spreadsheet for an ore buyback program, which is just as ridiculous as what you're saying. Well since I've already agreed that all third party apps should be disallowed, that makes total sense. Again though the priority for their removal would be based on how much benefit they give and how available they are to other players, so I'd get rid of IWI before I get rid of ore buyback applications, but I'd get rid of ore buyback programs before I got rid of killboards for example.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
143
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 20:44:39 -
[546] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:even more stuff
1. market bots aren't players. They are computer programs interacting directly with the game client. IWI is real players interacting real time with zero computer program interfacing with the client. Try again.
2. ISBoxer is yet again a computer program interfacing with the client, not a player, again irrelevant to what IWI is doing.
3. Your argument that "all third party apps should be shut down" would destroy EVE as it is today. You're intelligent enough to know that that simply won't happen, so you're using that to try and justify your thinly hidden agenda of complaining about people in game who you haven't figured out how to beat yet.
Try again slugger.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 21:48:58 -
[547] - Quote
Whatever way you swing it they are all third party applications designed to facilitate increased income. Stop being such a hypocrite.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
144
|
Posted - 2016.04.21 21:59:20 -
[548] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Whatever way you swing it they are all third party applications designed to facilitate increased income. Stop being such a hypocrite.
I support all of them being legal, as long as the ISK changes hands in game, no computer program is controlling a client, and no RMT is going on. How am I a hypocrite, exactly? Do you know what that word means? |
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
457
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 01:31:19 -
[549] - Quote
You all are just feeding the troll, and he enjoys it.
Stop being puppets he strings along.
Do like I did.
Block him.
Sneaky bastard.
|
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
143
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 01:37:34 -
[550] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Whatever way you swing it they are all third party applications designed to facilitate increased income. Stop being such a hypocrite.
Perhaps you should stop being one as well? Your alliance was the one that started this major war, attracted these bankers attention after your own members pre-emptively hacked their IWI server. You are the reason Goons campaign into LoSec was lost, and why a now massive army is sitting in Goon space roflstomping it. If anything you look like a huge sore loser. Maybe you should admit that you guys screwed up majorly and cost your own alliance and the Goons everything they had going for them?
But nah, let's just pretend IWI are the big evil bad guys. I mean sure they can chose to fund whatever war they want, but if they do I suppose everyone can thank you for it.
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/04/21/eve-online-world-war-bee-mittani/3/
|
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3356
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 07:22:33 -
[551] - Quote
The goons will not recover or have any meaningful future in Eve until Mittens is handed his cup of Hemlock.
Many of them know this, but are too scared to come out and say it in public for fear of been seen as 'disloyal' to the tribe.
This is not a signature.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11572
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 07:36:26 -
[552] - Quote
are you saying the goons 0.0 dream is over?
Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
-á-á - Abrazzar
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11572
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 07:40:39 -
[553] - Quote
because the last guy that said that stopped playing when, in fact, our 0.0 dream was not quite over
Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
-á-á - Abrazzar
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
33
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 07:46:40 -
[554] - Quote
What is the Mittani best in: Media war.
What is going in here: constant complaint over IWI. And declining the victorys of MBC because it is "only" because of the IWI money.
Here rockpapershotgun is a good article that shows the huge involvement of IWI but also shows that it's certainly not the only reason.
No matter whats your opinion of the war: it's good for EVE because there is a lot of movement and all of goon space is taken there are huge space areas that need new masters. So even if goon are done, and they are far from this, there will be war in north for a long time until it is all settled. The best thing, for eve, would be if the goon would pack and start somewhere else from scratch because that would stir up even more of Null. Constant denying of fun and just harrassing the winners on the other hand would be bad in the long run for both sides and Eve in general. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 09:08:29 -
[555] - Quote
You support some third party programs but not others, hypocrite.
If you're going to completely ignore everything I say and keep stating the same BS, then I will too.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
231
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 10:08:18 -
[556] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:...If you're going to completely ignore everything I say and keep stating the same BS, then I will too. Everyone has known this for a while.
You completely ignore what others say and keep stating the same BS.
Maybe now you've realized that you'll stop, but I doubt it. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 11:41:02 -
[557] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Everyone has known this for a while.
You completely ignore what others say and keep stating the same BS.
Maybe now you've realized that you'll stop, but I doubt it. Except of course that's not what's happened at all. I read the questions, I give full answers, then people like Isaac completely ignore everything said and throw up another straw man. People like you then sit around chiming in with insults and memes. I'm up for a civil discussion, but apparently that's too difficult for many people on here.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
604
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 12:41:46 -
[558] - Quote
And another war thread gets Lucas'd.
Not surprised.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
145
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 13:02:59 -
[559] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You support some third party programs but not others, hypocrite.
If you're going to completely ignore everything I say and keep stating the same BS, then I will too.
You're really stretching now mate. This is just getting sad. What third party programs, assuming they don't pass commands to a game client did I say I didn't support?
Are you a troll, really, really bad at propaganda, or just angry enough you need to argue online to get your rocks off? I'm genuinely curious. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
711
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 15:31:33 -
[560] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Darek Castigatus wrote:Yes thats exactly what I'm saying, the only thing that had to happen was that the Imperium needed to show weakness, which they did when the viceroy program failed and again when LSV kicked them out of lowsec entirely. Look I dont doubt IWIs contributions have helped bring in a bunch of people who might otherwise have sat out the war but as soon as the blood hit the water something like this was going to happen, it was just a matter of when and how big. It might be the case that they would have wanted to, but without the isk to do so they may not have actually done it. The wya I see it, if a dude can afford a trillion a week to pay for mercs then no group is safe, and there's no in game means to fight back.
That's a fair point except for one thing, IWI have no reason to wardec anyone unless they specifically go out of their way to **** IWI off just like SMA did. Lenny only went ahead with the merc program because Eep and Ironbank said they would back him and why would they do that if he decided to dec someone who has done nothing to affect IWI in any way.
Youve been obsessing so much over the fact they CAN do this thing that you've been ignoring the factors governing if they WOULD do that thing. I shouldnt have to say this but IWI is in the business of making money and its the height of bad business practice to go around blowing up your customers when thats your overall objective. There has to be an overwhelmingly good reason to go against their interests like that and outside of cases where people deliberately poke the bear I just dont see that happening.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
|
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1746
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 16:07:02 -
[561] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Darek Castigatus wrote:Yes thats exactly what I'm saying, the only thing that had to happen was that the Imperium needed to show weakness, which they did when the viceroy program failed and again when LSV kicked them out of lowsec entirely. Look I dont doubt IWIs contributions have helped bring in a bunch of people who might otherwise have sat out the war but as soon as the blood hit the water something like this was going to happen, it was just a matter of when and how big. It might be the case that they would have wanted to, but without the isk to do so they may not have actually done it. The wya I see it, if a dude can afford a trillion a week to pay for mercs then no group is safe, and there's no in game means to fight back. That's a fair point except for one thing, IWI have no reason to wardec anyone unless they specifically go out of their way to **** IWI off just like SMA did. Lenny only went ahead with the merc program because Eep and Ironbank said they would back him and why would they do that if he decided to dec someone who has done nothing to affect IWI in any way. Youve been obsessing so much over the fact they CAN do this thing that you've been ignoring the factors governing if they WOULD do that thing. I shouldnt have to say this but IWI is in the business of making money and its the height of bad business practice to go around blowing up your customers when thats your overall objective. There has to be an overwhelmingly good reason to go against their interests like that and outside of cases where people deliberately poke the bear I just dont see that happening. "have no reason" does not work in Eve Online, mate..... Reason is always here: 'wreck their dreams' CCP(c)
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7489
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 16:16:07 -
[562] - Quote
No, what's sad is that you feel you can completely fabricate my points of view then call me a hypocrite. You don;t actually want to bother reading posts so I'm not going to bother writing them, I'll just switch to your tactic.
That's a fair point except for one thing, IWI have no reason to wardec anyone unless they specifically go out of their way to **** IWI off just like SMA did. Lenny only went ahead with the merc program because Eep and Ironbank said they would back him and why would they do that if he decided to dec someone who has done nothing to affect IWI in any way.
Darek Castigatus wrote:That's a fair point except for one thing, IWI have no reason to wardec anyone unless they specifically go out of their way to **** IWI off just like SMA did. Lenny only went ahead with the merc program because Eep and Ironbank said they would back him and why would they do that if he decided to dec someone who has done nothing to affect IWI in any way. It's a game. Noone really has any reason to declare war against anyone, yet wars get declared. You're happy not fighting against having a third party application allowing someone to have an untouchable income stream, that's fine and I respect that opinion, but I can't agree with it.
Darek Castigatus wrote:Youve been obsessing so much over the fact they CAN do this thing that you've been ignoring the factors governing if they WOULD do that thing. I shouldnt have to say this but IWI is in the business of making money and its the height of bad business practice to go around blowing up your customers when that's your overall objective. There has to be an overwhelmingly good reason to go against their interests like that and outside of cases where people deliberately poke the bear I just dont see that happening. I doubt any single group contains a big enough portion of their customer base to be worth not attacking, not to mention that attacking their alliance doesn't necessarily mean the individual members stop using IWI. As they've stated about this war though, their activity has doubled by funding this war, meaning more income. That seems like a pretty good reason to me to do it again.
Ed: and with the citadels release there's nothing stopping IWI pushing to hold the new Jita too. They have enough income from their third party application to pay mercs against half of eve if they have to until it's self sustaining, something not many other alliances would be capable of doing, as everyone else earns isk with in-game mechanics.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
146
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 16:57:33 -
[563] - Quote
you accused me of being a hypocrite by cherry picking third party apps. What specific third party apps did I say I didn't want in the game?
Either answer the question of stop being ridiculous.
Come on Lukey-boy. You can answer a direct question. I believe in you.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
249
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 17:22:09 -
[564] - Quote
Let's get back to the basics here. Low/null space is supposedly defended by PvP oriented podsuleers. Diplomacy can aid in rallying more troops, money can buy mercenariers. But at the end of the day, you need PvPers.
Groups without them belong in highsec.
It is quite normal for PvPers to disdain carebears reaping fat rewards in vast swaths of rich space they can't defend.
I read your arguments, but I still don't believe ISK is the problem here. Solely focusing on PvE activities for years, ISK is pretty much the only thing you had (and still have) in spades. It was manned guns that lost the war, not empty wallets.
Bottom line: the area of space designed for your playstyle is Highsec.
Ironbank may hire mercs for another war at some point. ISK will change hands, and shortly afterwards ammunition shall be traded. This is healthy for the game and its economy. Stagnation serves no one. You too can use your stack of cash to hire mercs to do Your bidding!
As has been pointed out before, however ..... it wasn't Ironbank who started the war. It was the Goon's viceroyalty program. You basically declared war on the rest of EvE, and lost. Shadow Carted did a good number on y'all without funding, as did Gevlon with money out of his own back pocket.
What grrr goons are going to do now? Given the fact they're still in possession of most of their rolling assets, minus the fertile grounds, I expect the carebears to jump ship and the die-hards to reform into a military force once more. The carebears may end up renting their old space from new overlords; the more obnoxious ones nobody wants will likely end up running missions in highsec.
Given the amount of salt radiating from one person in particular here, I suggest you reassess your reasons for playing this game: what are your goals, and how do you want to achieve them? Is fun still in the package somewhere? War is fun - and we thank you for starting it! Now be a good sport, admit defeat and live to fight another day. Or don't fight and carebear it up in high -- all up to you. But please, for the love of BoB, don't be a sour loser.
Please remember your posts reflect poorly on the Spacemonkey Alliance as a whole - whether you like it or not. Do you really need to display more weakness, more tears, more salt? Is it wise to invite more response from those who would farm you for lulz?
In my humble opinion - and I may be off the mark here - but in my opinion, SMA needs time to regroup, recover from the blow and craft new plans. It is a time to lay low and bide your time to at some point later on emerge from the ashes and step into the spotlight of relevance. You are not doing your alliance a favour. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7490
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 17:48:38 -
[565] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:yet more stuff I do answer direct questions, you simply ignore the answer. Now stop being a hypocrite.
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:I read your arguments, but I still don't believe ISK is the problem here. Solely focusing on PvE activities for years, ISK is pretty much the only thing you had (and still have) in spades. It was manned guns that lost the war, not empty wallets. That's great if we're talking about just this war, but we're not. It's easy to point at this war and say "all the other factors, etc, etc" but outside of this war it still doesn't change the fact that there's a third party application allowing the acquisition of a staggering amount of isk giving one set of players an advantage over players who are just playing EVE the way it's built.
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Please remember your posts reflect poorly on the Spacemonkey Alliance as a whole - whether you like it or not. Do you really need to display more weakness, more tears, more salt? Is it wise to invite more response from those who would farm you for lulz? vOv, couldn't care less, and if SMA care enough they can boot me. And if a bunch of 12 year old reddit posters want to sit around declaring opinions as salt and tears, they are welcome to do that too. At the end of the day I'm not going to change my opinion just because someone thinks fighting for balance is displaying weakness, and certainly not if their method of attacking that is in the form of overused memes rather than reasonable thought out counterpoints.
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:In my humble opinion - and I may be off the mark here - but in my opinion, SMA needs time to regroup, recover from the blow and craft new plans. It is a time to lay low and bide your time to at some point later on emerge from the ashes and step into the spotlight of relevance. You are not doing your alliance a favour. Sure we do, and that's what we're doing. My posting doesn't affect the fact that we remain on friendly terms with the Imperium, and so it makes no difference as people will be paid to attack us until we don't exist or we set goons red. Quite honestly if someone is so upset by my posting they choose to continue an entire war against my alliance for it then I'm deeply honoured and take it as a reinforcement of my points.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3356
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 17:58:41 -
[566] - Quote
Dearest Lucas, if CCP had a problem with IWI they would deal with it, as this does not appear to be the case thus far, then IWI are perfectly entitled to fund anything they want to for any reason.
CCP set the rules of the play-box, stop crying and deal with it.
This is not a signature.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
150
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 18:24:37 -
[567] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I do answer direct questions, you simply ignore the answer. Now stop being a hypocrite.
For the third time tiger, what third party apps did I say I don't support?
Be specific. You don't really know what a hypocrite is, do you?
Lucas "when I'm proven wrong, I resort to trolling to try and save face" Kell
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
253
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 19:59:44 -
[568] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:That's great if we're talking about just this war, but we're not.
Actually, we are. You're posting in the wrong thread.
|
Bishop Bob
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 23:32:39 -
[569] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:That's great if we're talking about just this war, but we're not. Actually, we are. You're posting in the wrong thread.
I thought he posted in every thread? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
236
|
Posted - 2016.04.23 01:25:01 -
[570] - Quote
Bishop Bob wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:That's great if we're talking about just this war, but we're not. Actually, we are. You're posting in the wrong thread. I thought he posted wrong in every thread? FTFY |
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7490
|
Posted - 2016.04.23 08:10:19 -
[571] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dearest Lucas, if CCP had a problem with IWI they would deal with it, as this does not appear to be the case thus far, then IWI are perfectly entitled to fund anything they want to for any reason.
CCP set the rules of the play-box, stop crying and deal with it. And I'm perfectly entitled to disagree. Nothing would ever change if people didn't push for change.
You're yet to prove anything wrong, hell you're yet to even respond to most of my points, you just keep smacking those strawmen and being a hypocrite.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3501
|
Posted - 2016.04.23 08:25:58 -
[572] - Quote
******LEAKS****** Lukas Kell Diary *****LEAKS*****
Day 21: Posts #842 Still one voice screaming it's not fair. They'll break soon
Day 22: Posts #871 Today I used a strawman argument I based from cherry-picked quotes. Jokes on them I accused them of doing that though
Day 23: Posts #921 today I screamed into the void that my unique personal opinion is somehow a fact
Day 24: Posts #1057 no one is liking my rambling posts must mean i have support on this subject and im not a crazy ********************************
Guys I have a good source on these, more to come.
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,
|
Sister MaryElephant
Stellar Conundrum
21
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 03:39:56 -
[573] - Quote
fofofofofofofofofofofofo
Lucas......buddy...sweetie.....what are you gonna do now?
Darius has returned.
Good luck with the application.
Send me 5 billion ISK and contract me your ships for safe shipping
fofofofofofofofofofofofofo |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7491
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 08:15:56 -
[574] - Quote
I'm not sure who that is, why I should care or why you feel my ships are in a precarious position, and if I were to suddenly have a problem shipping my stuff I certainly have no idea why I'd send it all to a random forum alt.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
255
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 15:30:59 -
[575] - Quote
On topic: when exactly does the enemy stop being the enemy?
Example. Guys or corps who recently dropped out of The Imperium, applying to Your alliance. We don't want them to stop playing, obviously; but we also don't want fair weather friends, F1 monkeys or carebears. We can take some newbros under our wings but at this point, there's a massive influx of non-PvP crowd scattering to the four winds.
I'd like to hear some perspectives on how the "refugees" are dealt with. Where do they go? Who takes them in? Are they looking to learn to PvP, or are they looking for green pastures to let the Mackinaws graze?
Luckily I'm not in a leadership position; because personally, ex-wartarget or affiliated is still wartarget in my book. Will remain so until things quiet down. It probably takes a better person than me to harbour those who would burn the universe but then suddenly had second thoughts about it - at gunpoint.
Then again I never said I was a nice person.
What's your take on it, gentlemen? |
ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
339
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 21:14:38 -
[576] - Quote
I have cleaned a post for Trolling. I know it's common, but it is against Rule 2.
Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
ISD Gallifreyan
Lt. Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCL)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7530
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 23:27:27 -
[577] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:On topic: when exactly does the enemy stop being the enemy?
Example. Guys or corps who recently dropped out of The Imperium, applying to Your alliance. We don't want them to stop playing, obviously; but we also don't want fair weather friends, F1 monkeys or carebears. We can take some newbros under our wings but at this point, there's a massive influx of non-PvP crowd scattering to the four winds.
I'd like to hear some perspectives on how the "refugees" are dealt with. Where do they go? Who takes them in? Are they looking to learn to PvP, or are they looking for green pastures to let the Mackinaws graze?
Luckily I'm not in a leadership position; because personally, ex-wartarget or affiliated is still wartarget in my book. Will remain so until things quiet down. It probably takes a better person than me to harbour those who would burn the universe but then suddenly had second thoughts about it - at gunpoint.
Then again I never said I was a nice person.
What's your take on it, gentlemen?
My take on this is, I don't envy your position.
Considering how the ranks of CFC swelled by "selling" nullbearing opportunities to noobs, and only requiring them to be an F1 monkey in the old N+1 fleet doctrines (now smashed by what is called "Fozzie SOV"), I can understand the issue you face.
On the other hand, there is an issue of old that might resurface.
Before goons, it was hard for noobs and players whose game play was not PVP at the core if it (builders, farmers, etc.) to get out of highsec. Back around 2009 - 2011 a very common trope was for players to "grind for 2 years amassing ISK and SP so I can finally go to nullsec". The real end result was players being "broken" into highsec grindbears (incursions didn't help the matter) or just plain getting bored out of the game. One day those same farmers/mission grinders you see every day don't show up, and you never see them again. (Maybe they died of boredom at their keyboard? ) And the old perceptions around SP accumulation were incorrect, horribly so, but "stuck". I think CCP has worked hard to combat this, starting with Mastery Tabs, and adding re-spec, and now SP injection (love it or hate it, it would have solved this "play for 2 years then die of boredom in highsec" problem if they did it in 2008). The genius of the SP system was grossly overlooked and the foolishness of those adhering to it would be their demise.
This perception had a reason: back then a lot of recruitment adds were "20 Million SP at least or GTFO!". It was goons who actually had the reputation of being newbro friendly and this helped them significantly. The "XX amount of 10s of millions of SP or don't apply" corporations found themselves outnumbered. And newbros in good fleet doctrines is nothing to laugh at. It don't matter how great your PWNmobile is, if you are outnumbered you're going down.
And let is not forget, SRP. It seems foolish after a while to end up in fleets where you get tossed into a ship grinder by bad tactics and you still have to find time to earn the ISK yourself to even have a ship at all.
Hopefully the new mechanics means we don't go back to "20M SP or GTFO" and the ways of olde: getting bored out of the game and having to grind for your own destruction. While I was always "Grrr goons", even I had to submit that they gave noobs a much friendlier path in this game than the "U'R NOT LEET GTFO" attitude that was the norm in the past. But now I think everybody from CCP to the players who care about this game have seen how these past attitudes mean doom for the game and have sought to combat it.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 21:16:39 -
[578] - Quote
IWI totally legit.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
162
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 21:22:16 -
[579] - Quote
12 people in IWI were accused of RMT, the entire site must not be legit.
So if 12 people in SMA were accused of botting or RMT-ing, all of SMA should be called cheaters and banned, right Luke?
People making ISK legitimately (like IWI) but then using it to RMT has always been ban-able. How is that news to you?
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 21:35:04 -
[580] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:12 people in IWI were accused of RMT, the entire site must not be legit. So if 12 people in SMA were accused of botting or RMT-ing, all of SMA should be called cheaters and banned, right Luke? People making ISK legitimately (like IWI) but then using it to RMT has always been ban-able. How is that news to you? Except the people banned were bankers, and as Nosy has gone into before, the're no real chance of having that number of people banned for RMT without it being systemwide RMT. If 12 SMA directors were caught RMTing, I'd find it hard to believe SMA weren't inherently an RMT alliance.
At the end of the day this is now even more evidence that there's RMT within IWI, and drops it down to zero evidence that they aren't as their whole story was "well they got unbanned so they weren't". What exactly is it you require before you believe there's RMT there? And are you still trying to hold up this whole "I'm neutral, honest" thing?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
162
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 21:56:59 -
[581] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Except the people banned were bankers, and as Nosy has gone into before, the're no real chance of having that number of people banned for RMT without it being systemwide RMT. If 12 SMA directors were caught RMTing, I'd find it hard to believe SMA weren't inherently an RMT alliance.
At the end of the day this is now even more evidence that there's RMT within IWI, and drops it down to zero evidence that they aren't as their whole story was "well they got unbanned so they weren't". What exactly is it you require before you believe there's RMT there? And are you still trying to hold up this whole "I'm neutral, honest" thing?
So basically what we have now is you couldn't prove to anyone that IWI has an 'unfair advantage' in making isk, and knowing you lost that fight you've turned to trying to pin RMT on an entire organization by the actions of a few line members?
Do you ever give up on the spin and rhetoric? Your level of stubbornness indicates my father must be running your account. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 22:07:14 -
[582] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:So basically what we have now is you couldn't prove to anyone that IWI has an 'unfair advantage' in making isk, and knowing you lost that fight you've turned to trying to pin RMT on an entire organization by the actions of a few line members?
Do you ever give up on the spin and rhetoric? Your level of stubbornness indicates my father must be running your account. No, it's an undeniable fact that they gain an unfair advantage, and now in addition there's more evidence that they RMT (which you'll note is something else I've said all along).
It's truly unbelievable that you can see this much against them, from reputable sources like Nosy no less, and still try to claim that you're defense of them is completely neutral. Judging by other people's comments elsewhere you might find your side is a pretty lonely place before too long.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
257
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 22:11:15 -
[583] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, it's an undeniable fact that they gain an unfair advantage, and now in addition there's more evidence that they RMT (which you'll note is something else I've said all along).
It's truly unbelievable that you can see this much against them, from reputable sources like Nosy no less, and still try to claim that you're defense of them is completely neutral. Judging by other people's comments elsewhere you might find your side is a pretty lonely place before too long. Why has this thread switched to talking about the multi-dollar media empire?
Oh hang on....apparently it hasn't. OK, RMT away Emporium. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 22:13:05 -
[584] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Why has this thread switched to talking about the multi-dollar media empire?
Oh hang on....apparently it hasn't. OK, RMT away Emporium. Feel free to provide the evidence of TMC RMTing whenever you want to. I guarantee if you show verifiable evidence of that I'll be against them too.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
163
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 22:20:28 -
[585] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, it's an undeniable fact that they gain an unfair advantage, and now in addition there's more evidence that they RMT (which you'll note is something else I've said all along).
It's truly unbelievable that you can see this much against them, from reputable sources like Nosy no less, and still try to claim that you're defense of them is completely neutral. Judging by other people's comments elsewhere you might find your side is a pretty lonely place before too long.
"I gave my opinion that literally no one agrees with, so it's obviously an undeniable fact"
You should be a US politician Lucas. You'd go far. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 22:26:19 -
[586] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:"I gave my opinion that literally no one agrees with, so it's obviously an undeniable fact"
You should be a US politician Lucas. You'd go far. No, it's an undeniable fact because having more isk is an advantage and without the IWI site they'd not be able to leverage the level of isk income they currently have. Just because a few vocal people with every reason to be against hat went "NOPE!" doesn't somehow disprove that. If anything most of the arguments you guys made was that it does provide an unfair advantage but other applications do too.
Oh wait, yeah I forgot you didn't actually bother reading any of the previous posts so you pretty much are starting from scratch here. My bad, never mind.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
257
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 22:54:32 -
[587] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Why has this thread switched to talking about the multi-dollar media empire?
Oh hang on....apparently it hasn't. OK, RMT away Emporium. Feel free to provide the evidence of TMC RMTing whenever you want to. I guarantee if you show verifiable evidence of that I'll be against them too. So this is just a straight double standards thing from you then?
You post evidence of IWI RMT. You seem to be against them for it with no evidence.
What individual bankers have been banned for is no different to what a number of indivual goons have also been banned for. Individuals actions don't equate to systemic processes, unless you apply that same standard to both organisations. |
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
163
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 23:04:44 -
[588] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, it's an undeniable fact because having more isk is an advantage and without the IWI site they'd not be able to leverage the level of isk income they currently have. Just because a few vocal people with every reason to be against hat went "NOPE!" doesn't somehow disprove that. If anything most of the arguments you guys made was that it does provide an unfair advantage but other applications do too.
Oh wait, yeah I forgot you didn't actually bother reading any of the previous posts so you pretty much are starting from scratch here. My bad, never mind.
"someone disagrees with me, so obviously they didn't read what I wrote"
"Just because a few vocal people...." pot, meet kettle. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
256
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 23:07:40 -
[589] - Quote
I'm not a proficient forum warrior. Is there any way to hide replies quoting someone whose posts I've hidden? Once the lolfactor wears out it's getting old. Please advice. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 23:11:31 -
[590] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:So this is just a straight double standards thing from you then?
You post evidence of IWI RMT. You seem to be against them for it with no evidence.
What individual bankers have been banned for is no different to what a number of indivual goons have also been banned for. Individuals actions don't equate to systemic processes, unless you apply that same standard to both organisations. Lol? So CCP's director of security saying that if it were up to him all 12 bankers would have been permabanned, that's not evidence enough? You literally just have you and other grr goons players stating "hurf blurf Emporium RMT". I mean hell, you haven't even given a good explanation of how they would RMT without being caught, because let's face it, you've not thought it out. This is why pretty much everything you say gets dismissed.
At the end of the day though you can keep trying to stand by your ever diminishing group of IWI cheerleaders in denying it, but you can't deny the truth forever.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 23:13:06 -
[591] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:"someone disagrees with me, so obviously they didn't read what I wrote" Actually it wasn't the disagreement, it was that you were disagreeing with points I'd never made. This was also something explained to you which is again something you seem not to have read.
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:I'm not a proficient forum warrior. Is there any way to hide replies quoting someone whose posts I've hidden? Once the lolfactor wears out it's getting old. Please advice. You could stop reading the thread, or just read the name before you read the post.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Bleedingthrough
203
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 23:14:34 -
[592] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:I'm not a proficient forum warrior. Is there any way to hide replies quoting someone whose posts I've hidden? Once the lolfactor wears out it's getting old. Please advice.
Try reddit. Trolls get downvoted there. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
259
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 23:29:01 -
[593] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:So this is just a straight double standards thing from you then?
You post evidence of IWI RMT. You seem to be against them for it with no evidence.
What individual bankers have been banned for is no different to what a number of indivual goons have also been banned for. Individuals actions don't equate to systemic processes, unless you apply that same standard to both organisations. Lol? So CCP's director of security saying that if it were up to him all 12 bankers would have been permabanned, that's not evidence enough? You literally just have you and other grr goons players stating "hurf blurf Emporium RMT". I mean hell, you haven't even given a good explanation of how they would RMT without being caught, because let's face it, you've not thought it out. This is why pretty much everything you say gets dismissed. At the end of the day though you can keep trying to stand by your ever diminishing group of IWI cheerleaders in denying it, but you can't deny the truth forever. If they had been RMTing, they would have been banned. That's the concrete evidence that is available.
That hasn't happened. Plain, simple, verifiable, objective.
The only hurt blurf that gets dismissed here is the rubbish you post.
I'm not grrr gons. I quite like them. I also like having fun, so it's just playing the game. But overall, I admire what gons have done in the past. Not so much lately.
The only thing I dislike is the tears and whining now occurring because you've lost. You're happy when it's just gons dominating, when it's just gons doxxing, when it's just gons controlling the narrative of the metagame.
But crying and whining incessantly because you are losing is pathetic and worth making lots of fun of, especially as you're incapable of not responding.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 23:57:07 -
[594] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:If they had been RMTing, they would have been banned. That's the concrete evidence that is available. Except of course the director of security claiming that if he had it his way they would have been banned permanently and confirming they were involved in serious RMT.
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:I'm not grrr gons. I quite like them. lol, good one. Complete BS, but good one.
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:The only thing I dislike is the tears and whining now occurring because you've lost. Except that's not why, you can go back to long before this war even started to see I held the same opinions.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
168
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 00:27:58 -
[595] - Quote
Sorry if I hit a nerve. Just admit everyone has shown how absurd you are already.
Come on, this is just sad. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 00:42:25 -
[596] - Quote
Let's not start this thing where you just say "stuff" then a completely random troll post again. Just hush up until you think up a valid point.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3370
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 05:43:55 -
[597] - Quote
Lucas, if you have any evidence regarding wrong doing by IWI then present it to CCP.
They will consider it and reach a decision which we all need to accept.
Right now you just come across a sad, whinging loser on the wrong side of World War Bee.
Perhaps you are persisting with this hopeless cause to say on the right side of the increasingly paranoid mittens?
This is not a signature.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 07:53:46 -
[598] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Lucas, if you have any evidence regarding wrong doing by IWI then present it to CCP.
They will consider it and reach a decision which we all need to accept.
Right now you just come across a sad, whinging loser on the wrong side of World War Bee.
Perhaps you are persisting with this hopeless cause to say on the right side of the increasingly paranoid mittens? Read the link I've posted to Nosys blog. According to CCPs head of security, even when they do have evidence they don't act on it.
And again these have been my opinions for a logn time, it has nothing to do with the Imperium. I know you guys find it impossible to separate personal opinion for the tag under someone's name, but most normal people don't.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Reiisha
Evolution Northern Coalition.
1002
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 11:41:05 -
[599] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:"I gave my opinion that literally no one agrees with, so it's obviously an undeniable fact"
You should be a US politician Lucas. You'd go far. No, it's an undeniable fact because having more isk is an advantage and without the IWI site they'd not be able to leverage the level of isk income they currently have. Just because a few vocal people with every reason to be against hat went "NOPE!" doesn't somehow disprove that. If anything most of the arguments you guys made was that it does provide an unfair advantage but other applications do too. Oh wait, yeah I forgot you didn't actually bother reading any of the previous posts so you pretty much are starting from scratch here. My bad, never mind.
I haven't read the entire thread to be honest, but i'm wondering what point you're trying to make. IWI's isk is funding 2 alliances, not all the 20+ in the MBC. The CFC has roughly the same amount of ISK as the entire MBC combined, but the people who control it don't feel like spending it. IWI was a catalyst to get events rolling, nothing more - If you think that IWI is the only thing that keeps the conflict going, i guess (ex) CFC line members have been brainwashed more than i thought.
Any discussion about IWI has no relevance whatsoever on 'providing an advantage', as they provide very little of it if at all. ISK alone doesn't set up logistics chains, manufacturing locations, FC's, fleet members or even competence. If you believe that just having ISK provides any advantage whatsoever, look at CFC: All that isk, and they still have less space than a newbie alliance.
Which i think is rather ironic and amusing.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
172
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 13:29:19 -
[600] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Let's not start this thing where you just say "stuff" then a completely random troll post again. Just hush up until you think up a valid point.
You've repeatedly point-blank ignored the 3rd party apps that every major alliance uses to gain isk while condemning IWI. Until you stop with this painfully obvious propaganda, I can't take you any more seriously than I do my 6 year old niece.
You are adorable though, how hard you try! |
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 13:38:06 -
[601] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:I haven't read the entire thread to be honest, but i'm wondering what point you're trying to make. IWI's isk is funding 2 alliances, not all the 20+ in the MBC. The CFC has roughly the same amount of ISK as the entire MBC combined, but the people who control it don't feel like spending it. IWI was a catalyst to get events rolling, nothing more - If you think that IWI is the only thing that keeps the conflict going, i guess (ex) CFC line members have been brainwashed more than i thought. I don;t think the Imperium have anywhere close to the ongoing ISK coming in from IWI. And I don't think IWI stopping will stop the war, I don;t even think the funding of the war was a bad thing, it's very good and has created a huge amount of content. The problem I have is that a third party application is still being used to allow an enormous amount of income that would not be possible without it. Having anyone able to source that level of income using a method that can't be countered by in-game mechanics is a bad thing.
Not to mention that IWI is almost guaranteed to be involved in RMT, which is now pretty much confirmed by CCP.
Reiisha wrote:Any discussion about IWI has no relevance whatsoever on 'providing an advantage', as they provide very little of it if at all. ISK alone doesn't set up logistics chains, manufacturing locations, FC's, fleet members or even competence. If you believe that just having ISK provides any advantage whatsoever, look at CFC: All that isk, and they still have less space than a newbie alliance. Take ISBoxer or bots as examples. Those too allowed the collection of isk at a greater rate, and didn' set up logistics chains, manufacturing locations, FC's, fleet members or even competence. Yet they are deemed to be an unfair advantage because a normal player playing the game as it is would have no hope of competing with them. Just like no player using normal gameplay mechanics has any hope of competing with IWI.
Isaac Armer wrote:You've repeatedly point-blank ignored the 3rd party apps that every major alliance uses to gain isk while condemning IWI. Except of course that I haven't. I specifically mentioned multiple other applications, I've answered your questions on them and explained exactly why I feel some are bigger problems than others. That's not ignoring them. If you choose to not bother reading that, your incredible failure to make a reasonable counterargument is entirely on you.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
172
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 13:50:34 -
[602] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Except of course that I haven't. I specifically mentioned multiple other applications, I've answered your questions on them and explained exactly why I feel some are bigger problems than others. That's not ignoring them. If you choose to not bother reading that, your incredible failure to make a reasonable counterargument is entirely on you.
Right right, you casually dismissed them as 'not a big deal' so you could keep up your whining.
Gotcha. Lukey, when you're the only one who has your opinion out of dozens upon dozens of people you talk to, what does that say?
I look forward to more of your mental gymnastics. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
259
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 13:56:55 -
[603] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote: I look forward to more of your mental gymnastics.
I don't. Either there is proof, or there is none. Post the proof and be done with it, or hold your peace. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 14:09:42 -
[604] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Right right, you casually dismissed them as 'not a big deal' so you could keep up your whining. Actually I gave in depth descriptions of why I think an application that is only available to a limited subset of players who can build it that allows you to rake in trillions of isk is more of an advantage than a slightly more configurable set of voice comms that are freely available to all. The funny thing is that the fact that you have no good counterarguments and keep spouting "but you don't want to ban teamspeak so IWI is not a problem" actually solidifies my argument. If my arguments were weak you'd have no problem finding actual counters without having to resort to strawman arguments and personal attacks.
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:I don't. Either there is proof, or there is none. Post the proof and be done with it, or hold your peace. The proof is clear. Without their application IWI could not source the amount of ISK they do, and having trillions of isk rolling in is an undeniable advantage. Hell, even the people arguing against me aren't denying this, they are going down the route of "teamspeak also provides an advantage therefore IWI should not be banned unless TS is too" because they can't deny it and a desperate to find a counter.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
178
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 14:32:06 -
[605] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:[quote=Shae Tadaruwa So CCP's director of security saying that if it were up to him all 12 bankers would have been permabanned, that's not evidence enough?
No it is not.
If you had actually meet and talked to the head of CCP's director of security you would know that the guy has a hard on for bans. If he had his way all RMT accounts would be banned (as is the applied rules), but he would also ban anyone who has done a contract or trade of any sort with a proven RMT and remove all articles made or sold by a banned RMT client no matter who now owns it or the way it was purchased.He would also remove the purchased isk no matter where it is. I personally am glad he does his job so well , but am also thankful that CCP does keep him on a short leach.
I suspect though CCP will never conferm or deny that the 12 bankers probably had isk deposits from people who used RMT to gain the isk to gamble. This in itself is a ban-able offence if ccp deem it to be them trying to hide that they bought 'illegal RMT isk' and tried to hide it. It's just the same if i bought a **** ton of isk from a RMT and then transferred it to you....when i am banned, so would you be for investigation.
With all the crap that goes on in the meta game i am surprised that it is not a tactic that is used more often.
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
|
Reiisha
1006
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 14:32:56 -
[606] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:
I don;t think the Imperium have anywhere close to the ongoing ISK coming in from IWI. And I don't think IWI stopping will stop the war, I don;t even think the funding of the war was a bad thing, it's very good and has created a huge amount of content. The problem I have is that a third party application is still being used to allow an enormous amount of income that would not be possible without it. Having anyone able to source that level of income using a method that can't be countered by in-game mechanics is a bad thing.
Not to mention that IWI is almost guaranteed to be involved in RMT, which is now pretty much confirmed by CCP.
You may want to revise those thoughts. CFC has a LOT more than 3-4T a week coming in. Maybe less now, but quite a bit more before the war started. If you really think the war coffers must be empty by now... Yeah, you don't basically AFK/multibox farm 4+ regions for 4+ years straight without having something to show for it.
I know you want to play up the victim role of the CFC, but in all honesty, you seem to be looking desperately for something to hold on to that without any real reason to do so. IWI is a fly on the wall at best when considering the funding CFC and MBC forces have on their own.
Lucas Kell wrote:
Take ISBoxer or bots as examples. Those too allowed the collection of isk at a greater rate, and didn' set up logistics chains, manufacturing locations, FC's, fleet members or even competence. Yet they are deemed to be an unfair advantage because a normal player playing the game as it is would have no hope of competing with them. Just like no player using normal gameplay mechanics has any hope of competing with IWI.
Again, you're trying to make it seem like IWI is the lynchpin of why CFC is being attacked right now. They are not. They were the catalyst, as i said, but nothing more. That said, you seem to be under the delusion that the CFC was playing 'fairly' all this time. Or do you really believe no one was exploiting the **** out of being able to rat/pve however much they wanted without being interrupted *at all* all this time up north?
Lucas Kell wrote:
Except of course that I haven't. I specifically mentioned multiple other applications, I've answered your questions on them and explained exactly why I feel some are bigger problems than others. That's not ignoring them. If you choose to not bother reading that, your incredible failure to make a reasonable counterargument is entirely on you.
Then why are you making such a huge fuss about IWI? They don't matter squat in the grand scheme of things, especially as others (a lot of whom are CFC members) are just as 'guilty' of doing the same things.
You truly seem to believe in the victim/saint role for the CFC for some reason. Maybe you would care to explain that, rather than harp on on something completely insignificant to what's actually going on? Really think for yourself here. Are you just repeating mittens' propaganda machine here without critical thought or do you actually believe that IWI is in some way fundamental to what is going on here? Unless of course you are part of said machine.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3370
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 14:50:12 -
[607] - Quote
Lucas, have you actually made a formal complaint to CCP that IWI are heavily involved in RMT, and provided the proof thereof?
For all I know everybody in the game apart from me is involved in RMT.
But unless I could provide actionable proof to CCP I could end up like you, constantly whining in the forums to no real purpose.
If proof is given to CCP then they will take the appropriate action as they see fit.
I am sure they banned some other gambling site about a year or so ago.
Jeez, try to lose the war like a man at least.
In Eve speak - HTFU :)
This is not a signature.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 15:23:29 -
[608] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:If you had actually meet and talked to the head of CCP's director of security you would know that the guy has a hard on for bans. If he had his way all RMT accounts would be banned (as is the applied rules), but he would also ban anyone who has done a contract or trade of any sort with a proven RMT and remove all articles made or sold by a banned RMT client no matter who now owns it or the way it was purchased.He would also remove the purchased isk no matter where it is. I personally am glad he does his job so well , but am also thankful that CCP does keep him on a short leach. Except he stated that the RMT they had been involved in was serious. ther rules state that anyone selling ISK does receive a permaban, and all isk related to it is removed even if it is passed on to an unconnected third party, that's all normal every day business. Why this wasn't applied in this case is yet to be seen.
Prt Scr wrote:I suspect though CCP will never conferm or deny that the 12 bankers probably had isk deposits from people who used RMT to gain the isk to gamble. This in itself is a ban-able offence if ccp deem it to be them trying to hide that they bought 'illegal RMT isk' and tried to hide it. It's just the same if i bought a **** ton of isk from a RMT and then transferred it to you....when i am banned, so would you be for investigation. But that's not what anyone would be likely to classify as "serious" RMT. You're seriously trying to claim that the director of CCPs security counts unknowing third parties to RMT as involved in "serious" RMT deserving of a permaban? Gonna need you to cite a source on that one buddy.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
172
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 15:30:23 -
[609] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Actually I gave in depth descriptions of why I think an application that is only available to a limited subset of players who can build it that allows you to rake in trillions of isk is more of an advantage than a slightly more configurable set of voice comms that are freely available to all. The funny thing is that the fact that you have no good counterarguments and keep spouting "but you don't want to ban teamspeak so IWI is not a problem" actually solidifies my argument. If my arguments were weak you'd have no problem finding actual counters without having to resort to strawman arguments and personal attacks.
The irony of you talking about strawmen...
If what you said was anything but hypocrisy, you would be 100% against the out of game management tools that every major alliance uses. You keep focusing on teamspeak. What is that? You seem to love cherry picking parts of posts.
Lucas "I enjoy talking BS to try vainly to sound smart, even though literally no one agrees" Kell
Keep it up tiger! You're on a roll. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 15:41:12 -
[610] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:You may want to revise those thoughts. CFC has a LOT more than 3-4T a week coming in. Maybe less now, but quite a bit more before the war started. If you really think the war coffers must be empty by now... Yeah, you don't basically AFK/multibox farm 4+ regions for 4+ years straight without having something to show for it. Are you talking the actual CFC itself or individual members combined income? Because I have no issue believing that most nullsec ratters make 100m/week, but if you're suggesting the Imperium itself pulls in 4T per week after losses from taxes and moon goo, you're crazy.
And bear in mind as a comparison one banker from IWI is paying out a trillion a week and most of that is being covered by his income. That's one player.
You are also missing the point that CFC income is finite ant attackable. People are able to fly around destroying goons income. It's impossible to fly around and destroy IWI, since it's a third party application, not an in-game mechanic.
At the end of the day this has nothing to do with the Imperium specifically, it's to do with a third party application allowing a small number of players to outperform thousands of players with no ability to be countered. You're happy now because it's the Imperium being hit, but they could outclass any alliance they wanted to. We may as well congratulate them on their Palatine Keepstar now.
Reiisha wrote:Again, you're trying to make it seem like IWI is the lynchpin of why CFC is being attacked right now. They are not. They were the catalyst, as i said, but nothing more. That said, you seem to be under the delusion that the CFC was playing 'fairly' all this time. Or do you really believe no one was exploiting the **** out of being able to rat/pve however much they wanted without being interrupted *at all* all this time up north? No, I'm not. I'm specifically avoiding that because like I said multiple times this isn't about a single conflict, this has been an issue for a long time and will continue to be long after the Imperium is dead. Your concept of what is "fair" appears to be pretty broken here, since you seem to think taking and defending space then utilising it is unfair. Strangely, you seem to have no problem with the Russian groups who have done this far far far more than Imperium groups have.
Reiisha wrote:Then why are you making such a huge fuss about IWI? They don't matter squat in the grand scheme of things, especially as others (a lot of whom are CFC members) are just as 'guilty' of doing the same things. Because it's a third party application being used to gain an massive advantage. And guilty of what exactly? People like you tend to do this a lot, banging on about how guilty the Imperium are, then providing absolutely no examples of what it is they are doing. Probably because when you start writing it down you suddenly realise they are just players on an opposing team. You also seem to be unaware that I'm not an Imperium member.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 15:46:24 -
[611] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:If proof is given to CCP then they will take the appropriate action as they see fit. Apparently what CCP see fit is to let them slide even though they now confirm that they were involved in serious RMT. And mate, the forums are for us to voice our pinions. I get you don't agree with my opinions and you have some issues with allowing other people to have opinions you don't share, but that won't stop me voicing them as loudly as it takes for CCP to take notice.
And Isaac, shush now. If you are going to try to troll, at least get a little better at it. Unless you start bring up a valid counterpoints (which I highly doubt will happen) I'm pretty much going to skip over your posts since feeding you really is going nowhere.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3371
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 16:06:15 -
[612] - Quote
Dear Lucas, you have voiced your opinion, which is fine and dandy, but you have been repeating the same (complaint - whinge - delete as appropriate) for quite some time, to no avail.
Supply CCP with actionable proof or give it a rest.
This is not a signature.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
173
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 16:06:34 -
[613] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And Isaac, shush now. If you are going to try to troll, at least get a little better at it. Unless you start bring up a valid counterpoints (which I highly doubt will happen) I'm pretty much going to skip over your posts since feeding you really is going nowhere.
I'm still patiently waiting for you to explain how I am a hypocrite, since you accused me of that a few times.
I can ask yet again though! What 3rd party apps did I say I don't support?
Feel free to ignore me again Mr. Kell. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7493
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 17:41:40 -
[614] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear Lucas, you have voiced your opinion, which is fine and dandy, but you have been repeating the same (complaint - whinge - delete as appropriate) for quite some time, to no avail.
Supply CCP with actionable proof or give it a rest. They've had proof, and they've now admitted to basically ignoring it. So back to voicing opinions.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
612
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 18:14:23 -
[615] - Quote
I think you mean:
"Someone in a blog alleges that a CCP dev said they should be banned in his opinion - but their ban was rescinded by CCP as a whole, after the proof was examined, contrary to that one particular devs opinion"
Needless to say, this is still off topic and very salty sounding in a thread about the future of goons (not the future of IWI).
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Reiisha
1007
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 18:36:01 -
[616] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:
Are you talking the actual CFC itself or individual members combined income? Because I have no issue believing that most nullsec ratters make 100m/week, but if you're suggesting the Imperium itself pulls in 4T per week after losses from taxes and moon goo, you're crazy.
And bear in mind as a comparison one banker from IWI is paying out a trillion a week and most of that is being covered by his income. That's one player.
You are also missing the point that CFC income is finite ant attackable. People are able to fly around destroying goons income. It's impossible to fly around and destroy IWI, since it's a third party application, not an in-game mechanic.
You're veering away from the point - Again. You keep harping on about IWI, but it's crystal clear that that's not the actual problem. The CFC is being attacked, and is currently on the losing side, which is what the thread is about. IWI was brought up as a reason why it's happening, and how this is unfair. Then it was about 'how IWI is bad for the game' to divert attention away from the actual issue.
Lucas Kell wrote:
At the end of the day this has nothing to do with the Imperium specifically, it's to do with a third party application allowing a small number of players to outperform thousands of players with no ability to be countered. You're happy now because it's the Imperium being hit, but they could outclass any alliance they wanted to. We may as well congratulate them on their Palatine Keepstar now.
No, I'm not. I'm specifically avoiding that because like I said multiple times this isn't about a single conflict, this has been an issue for a long time and will continue to be long after the Imperium is dead. Your concept of what is "fair" appears to be pretty broken here, since you seem to think taking and defending space then utilising it is unfair. Strangely, you seem to have no problem with the Russian groups who have done this far far far more than Imperium groups have.
The problem is, it DOES have to do with the CFC. Otherwise you would never have brought it up in the first place. Who cares about IWI? No one was having a problem with it. Until the CFC got attacked, and then suddenly everyone in it adopted a holier-than-thou attitude about it 'because it's all IWI's fault'.
Who do you think would have gotten that keepstar otherwise, at the day of release, without anyone attacking them and giving them an ISK printing machine? IWI does not have any space you know. CFC did. CFC also still has just enough ISK and assets to deploy one if they reached deep into their pockets and got their stuff together.
Also: You are forgetting something. When someone attacks anyone, both sides are usually happy about it.. Any alliance outside of CFC LOVES being attacked. It means that they get to fight and have fun, it doesn't matter who or what is funding it. It's a videogame. It's supposed to be fun. The only people who didn't like to be attacked are the CFC, and the only times they did fight they employed bully tactics and metagaming as their weapons, because "we're not here to ruin the game, we're here to ruin your game".
Lucas Kell wrote:
Because it's a third party application being used to gain an massive advantage. And guilty of what exactly? People like you tend to do this a lot, banging on about how guilty the Imperium are, then providing absolutely no examples of what it is they are doing. Probably because when you start writing it down you suddenly realise they are just players on an opposing team. You also seem to be unaware that I'm not an Imperium member.
You really need to get your head out of the sand. To name just one basic example: Can you say you've never used EFT? Or are you going to try and find arguments for why 'that doesn't count'? How about the countless corp and alliance tools that help manage any massive organization in the game? POS timer tools? For crying out loud, Microsoft Excel falls in that category and should obviously be banned, right? A lot of tools exist that help you maximize your ISK earning potential, maybe this one just sits closer to the metal than most.
And no, you are not a CFC member - Not anymore, not until very recently. However, you were member of the very alliance which started this entire conflict. In fact, this whole thing started because the SMA was screwing around with IWI, to take advantage of their system and stealing their stuff. They then hid behind a CFC screen of supposed invulnerability, which turned out to be just a smoke screen.
This actually is making your entire line of reasoning all the more delicious and amusing to read, so please, go on :)
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
|
Loucxious Leopold
Dredge Nation Solyaris Chtonium
10
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 18:41:21 -
[617] - Quote
Eli,
So what do you think the future holds, since things have changed since the initial posting? |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
613
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 19:01:39 -
[618] - Quote
Loucxious Leopold wrote:Eli,
So what do you think the future holds, since things have changed since the initial posting? As it stands now, there's waaaay too much on the table to start making predictions:
- Citadel and cap changes - Will this make smaller capital fleets viable inspite of the supercap dominance of MBC?
- Are horde actually having fun or is the pressure on O1Y actually hurting their morale and attendance? TMC says yes, reddit says no. Will Imperium manage to actually win a timer when potentially the whole MBC might show up to help horde defend?
- Are MBC splintering and in-fighting? Or are they just having gf's because of a lack of content from Imperium?
- Does MBC actually need the IWI funding to continue? As it looks now, even without the funding there's enough blood in the water and enough strength from even a fraction of the MBC to keep the north secured - but - as it stands, short of bans being reinstated (rightly or wrongly) this doesn't look like happening.
- DJ and the 'old goons' / Imperium morale in general - Will this cause them to keep dropping members/strength? Dotlan says yes - for the moment. Even with the huge amount of allied corps that have folded into GSF they've just started to drop below 17k now...although no-one knows for sure how many of those are actual active players.
Too many questions without concrete answers... but I don't think it looks good for Imperium... I don't think they're going to completely disappear either though.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Jade Krendraven
Catastrophic Overview Failure COF Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 19:20:57 -
[619] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:You truly seem to believe in the victim/saint role for the CFC for some reason.
You know I honestly thought the guy was just some random troll when he came to /r/eve and tried to spin Mittani into some defenseless victim of cyber-bullying. I began to suspect he might actually be a tad "off" when he tried to defend goon's past history of doxxing and trying to get people fired from their real life jobs. After reading this thread I'm convinced he is in fact full on delusional and should probably step away from the computer for a few months to get his head screwed back on straight. His blind fan-boy-ism becomes even more disturbing when you realize the guy he's spending COPIOUS amounts of time white knighting doesn't care at all about SMA. |
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
175
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 19:28:07 -
[620] - Quote
Jade Krendraven wrote:You know I honestly thought the guy was just some random troll when he came to /r/eve and tried to spin Mittani into some defenseless victim of cyber-bullying. I began to suspect he might actually be a tad "off" when he tried to defend goon's past history of doxxing and trying to get people fired from their real life jobs. After reading this thread I'm convinced he is in fact full on delusional and should probably step away from the computer for a few months to get his head screwed back on straight. His blind fan-boy-ism becomes even more disturbing when you realize the guy he's spending COPIOUS amounts of time white knighting doesn't care at all about SMA.
he is far from delusional. CFC has always had a strong propaganda game going, and it's fairly obvious at this point he's an alt of his CFC main characters tasked with talking them up on the forums. Not anything new for CFC, but most of their propaganda/spin team are far less blatent about it. |
|
Jade Krendraven
Catastrophic Overview Failure COF Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 19:38:23 -
[621] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote: he is far from delusional. CFC has always had a strong propaganda game going, and it's fairly obvious at this point he's an alt of his CFC main characters tasked with talking them up on the forums. Not anything new for CFC, but most of their propaganda/spin team are far less blatent about it.
I dunno, I think at this point you have to be pretty delusional to come to /r/eve and try to spin Mittani into some victim who deserves our sympathy but who knows...maybe he really is just terrible at propaganda. After all good propaganda is supposed to change public opinion, all he seems to do is get people to grrrgoons more.
|
Loucxious Leopold
Dredge Nation Solyaris Chtonium
10
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 19:58:28 -
[622] - Quote
Eli,
Thanks for the summary. I appreciate the perspective. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7495
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 23:02:34 -
[623] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:You're veering away from the point - Again. You keep harping on about IWI, but it's crystal clear that that's not the actual problem. The CFC is being attacked, and is currently on the losing side, which is what the thread is about. IWI was brought up as a reason why it's happening, and how this is unfair. Then it was about 'how IWI is bad for the game' to divert attention away from the actual issue. Except of course that I had the same issues with all of these gambling sites long before this war. I'm not veerign away from anything, you just can't deal with the idea that someone might have a problem with IWI without it being related to the current war. But that's your problem to deal with.
Reiisha wrote:The problem is, it DOES have to do with the CFC. Otherwise you would never have brought it up in the first place. Incorrect. Feel free to go back and check.
Reiisha wrote:IWI does not have any space you know. CFC did. Exactly. IWI has no space, no in space assets and no reason to undock. Everything they make is through a third party application and so they cannot be attacked the same ways every other alliance can.
Reiisha wrote:because "we're not here to ruin the game, we're here to ruin your game". Good lord you guys need to stop crying about that saying. All that means is the same thing every competitive group means, that they will aim to win and aim for you to lose and failing that aim for you not to have the luxury of a victory. Hell, even CCP have gone with that "Build Your Dreams, Wreck Their Dreams" thing.
Reiisha wrote:To name just one basic example: Can you say you've never used EFT? Or are you going to try and find arguments for why 'that doesn't count'? How about the countless corp and alliance tools that help manage any massive organization in the game? POS timer tools? For crying out loud, Microsoft Excel falls in that category and should obviously be banned, right? A lot of tools exist that help you maximize your ISK earning potential, maybe this one just sits closer to the metal than most. Of course I have and like I said last time I was asked the question, I'd be happy to see all third party tools banned. But I prioritises ones that I feel have more impact or less availability. IWI is only available to people who can write an application of that level, and it rakes in trillions of isk. EFT is available to everyone and it helps you fit a ship. You can't honestly say you believe the advantage gained from EFT is on par with the advantage from IWI.
"In fact, this whole thing started because the SMA was screwing around with IWI, to take advantage of their system and stealing their stuff." You should probably check your facts. One of the IWI bankers was stealing from SMA, got mad when he got outplayed when he tried to have his stolen stuff shipped out after he was booted. From there IWI backed him demanding SMA pay him out or they would withhold ISK SMA had within IWI. That's when SMA took what they could.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7495
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 23:08:45 -
[624] - Quote
Jade Krendraven wrote:You know I honestly thought the guy was just some random troll when he came to /r/eve and tried to spin Mittani into some defenseless victim of cyber-bullying I never said he was a helpless victim, I simply pointed out how much of a hypocrite you are for getting on your high horse while simultaneously supporting personal attacks on a player.
And as if to prove my point you just show up here to insult me. Good times. Have you considered trying to have civil discussions at all?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
175
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 23:44:27 -
[625] - Quote
Jade Krendraven wrote:I dunno, I think at this point you have to be pretty delusional to come to /r/eve and try to spin Mittani into some victim who deserves our sympathy but who knows...maybe he really is just terrible at propaganda. After all good propaganda is supposed to change public opinion, all he seems to do is get people to grrrgoons more.
hmmm, so maybe he actually works with IWI, is GREAT at propaganda and is doing his part in the anti-imperium war |
Reiisha
1010
|
Posted - 2016.04.27 11:30:55 -
[626] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:"In fact, this whole thing started because the SMA was screwing around with IWI, to take advantage of their system and stealing their stuff." You should probably check your facts. One of the IWI bankers was stealing from SMA, got mad when he got outplayed when he tried to have his stolen stuff shipped out after he was booted. From there IWI backed him demanding SMA pay him out or they would withhold ISK SMA had within IWI. That's when SMA took what they could.
Either you are spinning hard and are a mittens alt or you really did fall into the pit and are clinging desperately to your dignity...
I feel for you man, i really do.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7592
|
Posted - 2016.04.27 14:07:40 -
[627] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Either you are spinning hard and are a mittens alt or you really did fall into the pit and are clinging desperately to your dignity...
I feel for you man, i really do. Nope, I just happen to source my information from more than just reddit. Being there first hand helps a bit too.
And why would mittens spin about SMA? It would benefit him more to go with the reddit line on it to distance himself from the reasons the war started and to an extent he already did that on one of the SOTGs.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
884
|
Posted - 2016.04.27 16:39:01 -
[628] - Quote
Well this is all fascinating and such, but I must point out the facts. MBC has lannded on a carrier put up a banner and declaired Mission Accomplished, and are now shooting each other. Meanwhile Goons are scourging Pandemic Horde and taking back Fade and Pure Blind. Pandemic Horde keep placating themselves with, 'PL will show up, surely PL will show up.'
I came in at the last bit of a THREE YEAR hellwar. Do you realise how long that is, how much effort and dedication that took to accomplish? You all are to used to these weak alliances that collapse like wet cardboard after about a month. You just can't claim victory after a month against Goons because 'they have no space left, therefore VICTORY!' You will forever go Grr Goons, because I don't see any of you do more than whine against Goons. You have no dedication or determination beyond talking it up on reddit for the upvote karma, or here for the likes. Many alliances, and coallitions have claimed "there are no Goons." Where are they now? They are gone, the dust of faded memories and the butt of countless jokes, yet we are still here.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
|
Jade Krendraven
Catastrophic Overview Failure COF Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2016.04.27 16:49:50 -
[629] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote: yet we are still here, losing thousands of members and SOV and refusing to do much besides trying to harass a newbie corp.
Fixed that for you. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
262
|
Posted - 2016.04.27 16:55:15 -
[630] - Quote
For the PH defense timer, I saw NC., Tishu, Spectre, REKTD (obviously), PL and TEST. How do you figure we're leaving them high and dry? |
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1753
|
Posted - 2016.04.27 17:03:21 -
[631] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:For the PH defense timer, I saw NC., Tishu, Spectre, REKTD (obviously), PL and TEST. How do you figure we're leaving them high and dry? Reddit tells that PH won this war 'almost solo'. Your list looks too little too long for such winners.... For how long you will protect them? Will they ever do something on their own?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
262
|
Posted - 2016.04.27 17:08:20 -
[632] - Quote
Yes. |
Jason Galente
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
267
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 11:30:01 -
[633] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Well this is all fascinating and such, but I must point out the facts. MBC has lannded on a carrier put up a banner and declaired Mission Accomplished, and are now shooting each other. Meanwhile Goons are scourging Pandemic Horde and taking back Fade and Pure Blind. Pandemic Horde keep placating themselves with, 'PL will show up, surely PL will show up.'
I came in at the last bit of a THREE YEAR hellwar. Do you realise how long that is, how much effort and dedication that took to accomplish? You all are to used to these weak alliances that collapse like wet cardboard after about a month. You just can't claim victory after a month against Goons because 'they have no space left, therefore VICTORY!' You will forever go Grr Goons, because I don't see any of you do more than whine against Goons. You have no dedication or determination beyond talking it up on reddit for the upvote karma, or here for the likes. Many alliances, and coallitions have claimed "there are no Goons." Where are they now? They are gone, the dust of faded memories and the butt of countless jokes, yet we are still here.
Are you on crack? You are not taking back Fade. Lmfao.
You guys can't even kick out a newbie corp. It's really sad to see how far the Goons have fallen. I'm watching them brag in local about killing Ventures and Catalysts now, when they lost their stealth bomber to do it.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
127
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 11:54:07 -
[634] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Well this is all fascinating and such, but I must point out the facts. MBC has lannded on a carrier put up a banner and declaired Mission Accomplished, and are now shooting each other. Meanwhile Goons are scourging Pandemic Horde and taking back Fade and Pure Blind. Pandemic Horde keep placating themselves with, 'PL will show up, surely PL will show up.'
I came in at the last bit of a THREE YEAR hellwar. Do you realise how long that is, how much effort and dedication that took to accomplish? You all are to used to these weak alliances that collapse like wet cardboard after about a month. You just can't claim victory after a month against Goons because 'they have no space left, therefore VICTORY!' You will forever go Grr Goons, because I don't see any of you do more than whine against Goons. You have no dedication or determination beyond talking it up on reddit for the upvote karma, or here for the likes. Many alliances, and coallitions have claimed "there are no Goons." Where are they now? They are gone, the dust of faded memories and the butt of countless jokes, yet we are still here.
Goons right now : A ex hooligan trying to beat up a child and shouting at the crowd : "See how I am still a very serious oponent?" |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
712
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 14:14:01 -
[635] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Well this is all fascinating and such, but I must point out the facts. MBC has lannded on a carrier put up a banner and declaired Mission Accomplished, and are now shooting each other. Meanwhile Goons are scourging Pandemic Horde and taking back Fade and Pure Blind. Pandemic Horde keep placating themselves with, 'PL will show up, surely PL will show up.'
I came in at the last bit of a THREE YEAR hellwar. Do you realise how long that is, how much effort and dedication that took to accomplish? You all are to used to these weak alliances that collapse like wet cardboard after about a month. You just can't claim victory after a month against Goons because 'they have no space left, therefore VICTORY!' You will forever go Grr Goons, because I don't see any of you do more than whine against Goons. You have no dedication or determination beyond talking it up on reddit for the upvote karma, or here for the likes. Many alliances, and coallitions have claimed "there are no Goons." Where are they now? They are gone, the dust of faded memories and the butt of countless jokes, yet we are still here.
And?
You've already lost your empire, most of your allies and what was left of your dignity so really whats left for us to give a **** about?
You want to rebuild and try again then go ahead, unlike you we actually enjoy fighting.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
|
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
884
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 19:11:48 -
[636] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote: Are you on crack? You are not taking back Fade. Lmfao.
You guys can't even kick out a newbie corp. It's really sad to see how far the Goons have fallen. I'm watching them brag in local about killing Ventures and Catalysts now, when they lost their stealth bomber to do it.
Um, you need to get out of O1Y-ED more. Please tell me why Dotlan and zkillboard are lying to me, I thought they used CREST data, not the prattlings of a horde entosis slave.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 22 :: [one page] |