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Finding Cloakers

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Cors Gallente Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:20:00 - [1] Greetings! I have a quick question--is it at all possible to find a ship that is somewhere in your system, but almost definately cloaked? I've read, and heard, different answers to this question, but none cited any definitive source that I could actually look at and see. Essentially I heard yes, with a specific probe, and I've heard no, because said probe has not yet been added to the game (but will be). I am aware of the proximity rule--if you get close enough, you'll see them. I'm talking about something that is less than the proverbial grain of sand on the beach, though. Many thanks! Fair Travels! Cors
Steppa Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:21:00 - [2] Unfortunately, there is not. CCP promised us scan probes that would find cloaked ships, but didn't come through on deal for some reason. In my humble opinion, this is the single worst mechanic in the game eclipsed only (maybe) by the fact that you can warp to a can that's 151km away, but not a ship.
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:24:00 - [3] omg, another "i can't find a recon ship" thread. if you were able to find these cloaked ships, they'd be pretty rubish at recon wouldn't they? THEY'RE MEANT NOT TO BE FOUND! THATS THEIR ROLE! --
Megan Maynard Minmatar RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:45:00 - [4] He he come find me......... Supposedly a char with survey V and some sick other skills can kind of find a cloaked ship.............
Megan Maynard Minmatar RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:45:00 - [5] He he come find me......... Supposedly a char with survey V and some sick other skills can kind of find a cloaked ship.............
Cors Gallente Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:46:00 - [6] Edited by: Cors on 13/02/2007 20:49:19 I don't mean to suggest it should be EASY to find them, but it shouldn't border on impossible, either. I was told you have to be within 2000m of a cloaked ship to detect it. I have no idea if this is accurate, so I'll use 5000m as the true range. You'd have to check 30000 spots for every linear AU, somewhere around 2.7 million spots if you search in 2 dimensions. The current convention makes it impossible. It shouldn't be impossible. --Edited for courtesy-- Fair Travels! Cors
Cors Gallente Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:46:00 - [7] Edited by: Cors on 13/02/2007 20:49:19 I don't mean to suggest it should be EASY to find them, but it shouldn't border on impossible, either. I was told you have to be within 2000m of a cloaked ship to detect it. I have no idea if this is accurate, so I'll use 5000m as the true range. You'd have to check 30000 spots for every linear AU, somewhere around 2.7 million spots if you search in 2 dimensions. The current convention makes it impossible. It shouldn't be impossible. --Edited for courtesy-- Fair Travels! Cors
10of12	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Megan Maynard He he come find me......... Supposedly a char with survey V and some sick other skills can kind of find a cloaked ship............. atm you cannot find a cloaked ship. Devs were planning to implement it but they haven't (yet).
10of12	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Megan Maynard He he come find me......... Supposedly a char with survey V and some sick other skills can kind of find a cloaked ship............. atm you cannot find a cloaked ship. Devs were planning to implement it but they haven't (yet).
Prant	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Cors Edited by: Cors on 13/02/2007 20:49:19 I don't mean to suggest it should be EASY to find them, but it shouldn't border on impossible, either. I was told you have to be within 2000m of a cloaked ship to detect it. I have no idea if this is accurate, so I'll use 5000m as the true range. You'd have to check 30000 spots for every linear AU, somewhere around 2.7 million spots if you search in 2 dimensions. The current convention makes it impossible. It shouldn't be impossible. --Edited for courtesy-- I think your math is too low by a factor of 1000 in the linear case already but it doesnt change your point, of course.
TwIsTeDSoLdIeR	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:50:00 - [11] If they bring this in i dont think its fair to be able to find the exact location of the cloaked ship (it defeats the object of being cloaked) but to get close to the place where he is cloaked or the spot where he was while cloaking like when u set scan probes out it scans out an anomaly of some kind but cant quite pin it down.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:55:00 - [12] When you can no longer instantly detect anyone in your system merely by glancing down at the local chat tab, I might be in favor of probing out cloaked ships. 'Till then, forget it. Yeah, the current setup may be a prime example of lame game mechanics, but cloaking is gimpy enough already.
Kesh McCall Caldari Malkalen Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Cors Greetings! I have a quick question--is it at all possible to find a ship that is somewhere in your system, but almost definately cloaked? I've read, and heard, different answers to this question, but none cited any definitive source that I could actually look at and see. Essentially I heard yes, with a specific probe, and I've heard no, because said probe has not yet been added to the game (but will be). I am aware of the proximity rule--if you get close enough, you'll see them. I'm talking about something that is less than the proverbial grain of sand on the beach, though. Many thanks! no
Eralus	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:16:00 - [14] Two part solution: 1) Cloaked ships don't show up in local. 2) A 'Cloak Integrity' property. One way this could work: A ship that isn't near any other ship has a cloak integrity of 100. A ship that is 10km from another ship has a cloak integrity of 80. At 4km it's 20. And a ship that is 2km from another ship has a cloak integrity of 0 - i.e., no cloak. So, as now, if I get within 2km of your cloaked ship, I see you. But, a module is introduced that interferes with cloaking devices. And the closer you are to me, the more it interferes. So maybe at 4km, my cloak interference module reduces your cloak integrity by 5. So if I've got 4 of them, and you're within 4 KM of me, I see you. These modules should gang-stack. So if I and my buddy each have 4 of these modules, and you're 4 km of me, we've combined to reduce your cloak integrity by 40. This does a couple things. First, it's not a random-chance based thing - it's not "Scan for cloaked ship, and one out of 30 random times I see it." Second, it lets cloaked ships work to avoid being decloaked. If I see you, I just have to fly around so I stay far enough away from you that you can't decloak me. Third, it gives other people a reasonable opportunity to decloak you, especially at particular locations, if they have the right equipment and teamwork. Maybe couple this with a scan module that lets you find cloaked ships, but maybe only with 100km or so of precision. An alternative would be to let alliances with sovereignty install permanent fixtures that make cloaks use more cap, so you can still run around the system cloaked, but only as long as you have cap boosters to power the cloak. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Pholocix Digital Horizons Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:21:00 - [15] The only way you can "find" a cloaked ship is to have an uncloaked object within 2,000 M of it. Another cloaked object will not decloak you. Multiple cloaked ships can bounce off each other all day, of course one of them decloaks and you start a nice chain reaction. If you found yourself in a fair fight your intel sucks.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:36:00 - [16] Cloaks are of great value on non-combat ships as they let you hide without logging off. If they get nerfed, they get replaced by logging off and leaving an alt to watch the system instead. ---------- IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! Privateers FTW
Billy Sastard Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:42:00 - [17] Even if CCP changes things so that cloakers can be scanned, I will be safe! I have this sneaky black hood, you see?? /me sneaks into ur systemz -=^=-
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:45:00 - [18] humm....how to put this. Ah yes, Try probeing for a Uncloaked Covert ops frigate sometime. Battleship strong sensors on frigate hulls ftw! All the ships designed to fit cloaks have this trait.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2007.02.13 23:46:00 - [19] Actually it IS possible to scan out cloaked ships. It is a "bug" though. Some people know how to do it. Others don't have dev friends. ahahah I ***** myself up. Fanbois, pawns, play a game that you can move the chess pieces, not one that moves you. ~~~~~~~~~ Hi. I'm Rock. Make Eve good for rock. Give me scissor arms!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:02:00 - [20] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Actually it IS possible to scan out cloaked ships. It is a "bug" though. Some people know how to do it. Others don't have dev friends. ahahah I *** myself up. Fanbois, pawns, play a game that you can move the chess pieces, not one that moves you. It talking a requirement when you have an all-caps name, or just a handy addon? ---------- IBTL \o/ Fix the ***** map! Privateers FTW
Flapp Dog Tags	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:15:00 - [21] So a CovOps is in your system and you can't probe him down? Fine with me. First of all he got a name, maybe a corp. or alliance reference? Good, so you know who is probing you out. In case of an Alt, you know your enemies anyway, makes no difference. Second, why in this system? Is it a choke point, a place you build your titan in, a logistical stronghold, a rally point? Third, trick him! He just knows what is going on in this very system. Move fleets around him, whatever it takes to make his calls home work in your favour. In a nutshell, don't try to kill Mr. Cloak but use him to your advantage. Intel works both ways...
Lord Bleu The Xizor Cartel	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Steppa In my humble opinion, this is the single worst mechanic in the game eclipsed only (maybe) by the fact that you can warp to a can that's 151km away, but not a ship. Ah yes, becuase 99% of ships in a sector are cloaked, dang it how we cant find those invisible ships! >> The Xizor Cartel << >> Currently Recruiting Mature PVP'ers <<
dalmety	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:32:00 - [23] i personally dont think u should be able to scan down a cloaked ship, it rather defeates the point of the cloak in the first place. I also dont think while cloaked the character should be visible in local, the first anyone should see of a cloaked ship is it de-cloaking on top of them. considering how expensive a cloak is these days i would take it as rather unfair that a mission runner is near to impossible to scan down but a cloaked ship isnt.
Cors Gallente Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Prant Originally by: Cors Edited by: Cors on 13/02/2007 20:49:19 I don't mean to suggest it should be EASY to find them, but it shouldn't border on impossible, either. I was told you have to be within 2000m of a cloaked ship to detect it. I have no idea if this is accurate, so I'll use 5000m as the true range. You'd have to check 30000 spots for every linear AU, somewhere around 2.7 million spots if you search in 2 dimensions. The current convention makes it impossible. It shouldn't be impossible. --Edited for courtesy-- I think your math is too low by a factor of 1000 in the linear case already but it doesnt change your point, of course. Ugh! You're right--I failed to convert to meters when considering an AU at 150 mil km. I like the idea of being able to "find" a cloak with probes, perhaps down to a few km area. A group of ships may find him or her, but a solo likely won't. I also like the idea of using real-world skills to track them down via trianglulation, etc. I don't mind working for my prize. Fair Travels! Cors
roadrage639 Caldari Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:42:00 - [25] What about if they where to bring out a module that disrupts cloaking within a certain range of you when active? The Man Who Runs Will Fight Again
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.14 00:55:00 - [26] Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 14/02/2007 00:52:21 Personally i'd be satisfied with a probe that will let you get "near", as in.. 20 KM or so. Your expensive little force recon will be safe, unless you are afk, if you are you deserve to die to begin with. So you force the enemy to stay on the move, or at least pay attention. Cloaked gankers will find them in a spot of trouble as their damage dealers can't warp while cloaked, this is where the gang with drones come in, sweep the area. So, a force recon pilot that is paying attention can remain undetected if he has his wits about him, normal ship pilots with cloaks will have to stay on the move as this 10 minute cycle probe gives away their position. Currently they are broken, i can't believe ccp hasn't adressed this yet.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.02.14 01:25:00 - [27] Originally by: roadrage639 What about if they where to bring out a module that disrupts cloaking within a certain range of you when active? I wouldn't have much problem with that, if... a) appearing in local chat was optional b) pilots could target, repair and reload while cloaked Right now, you can't hardly do a damn thing while cloaked, except spy. Gimp it any further, and you might as well remove it from the game.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.02.14 02:48:00 - [28] I see a lot of people complaining about cloaked ships, but I don't see must of an issue. A cloak ship can do nothing but look, its just a pair of eyes. The only questionable use of it is with account sharing, but any big alliance can just put real members on cloak duty anyways, so it dosen't make that much difference to actual game mechanics. Plus if you gimp it you also gimp the movements of every ship that needs a cyno, which IMO isn't very good for the game. I say leave it as is, it's a non issue. Not to mention that smaller alliances and pirates, ratters, and solo players need it to do their buisness with a chance of success in alliance space.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.14 03:29:00 - [29] this is a moot point
Cpt Toxic Freelancers Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.14 06:26:00 - [30] Originally by: roadrage639 What about if they where to bring out a module that disrupts cloaking within a certain range of you when active? Modules exist but they weren't released to the masses

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