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Cors
Gallente
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:20:00 -
[1]
Greetings!
I have a quick question--is it at all possible to find a ship that is somewhere in your system, but almost definately cloaked? I've read, and heard, different answers to this question, but none cited any definitive source that I could actually look at and see. Essentially I heard yes, with a specific probe, and I've heard no, because said probe has not yet been added to the game (but will be).
I am aware of the proximity rule--if you get close enough, you'll see them. I'm talking about something that is less than the proverbial grain of sand on the beach, though.
Many thanks!
Fair Travels!
Cors
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Steppa
Gallente
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:21:00 -
[2]
Unfortunately, there is not. CCP promised us scan probes that would find cloaked ships, but didn't come through on deal for some reason.
In my humble opinion, this is the single worst mechanic in the game eclipsed only (maybe) by the fact that you can warp to a can that's 151km away, but not a ship.
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Vizranuh
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:24:00 -
[3]
omg, another "i can't find a recon ship" thread.
if you were able to find these cloaked ships, they'd be pretty rubish at recon wouldn't they?
THEY'RE MEANT NOT TO BE FOUND! THATS THEIR ROLE!
--
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
RONA Deepspace
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:45:00 -
[4]
He he come find me.........
Supposedly a char with survey V and some sick other skills can kind of find a cloaked ship.............
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
RONA Deepspace
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:45:00 -
[5]
He he come find me.........
Supposedly a char with survey V and some sick other skills can kind of find a cloaked ship.............
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Cors
Gallente
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cors on 13/02/2007 20:49:19
I don't mean to suggest it should be EASY to find them, but it shouldn't border on impossible, either. I was told you have to be within 2000m of a cloaked ship to detect it. I have no idea if this is accurate, so I'll use 5000m as the true range. You'd have to check 30000 spots for every linear AU, somewhere around 2.7 million spots if you search in 2 dimensions.
The current convention makes it impossible. It shouldn't be impossible.
--Edited for courtesy--
Fair Travels!
Cors
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Cors
Gallente
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cors on 13/02/2007 20:49:19
I don't mean to suggest it should be EASY to find them, but it shouldn't border on impossible, either. I was told you have to be within 2000m of a cloaked ship to detect it. I have no idea if this is accurate, so I'll use 5000m as the true range. You'd have to check 30000 spots for every linear AU, somewhere around 2.7 million spots if you search in 2 dimensions.
The current convention makes it impossible. It shouldn't be impossible.
--Edited for courtesy--
Fair Travels!
Cors
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10of12
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:48:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Megan Maynard
He he come find me.........
Supposedly a char with survey V and some sick other skills can kind of find a cloaked ship.............
atm you cannot find a cloaked ship. Devs were planning to implement it but they haven't (yet).
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10of12
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Posted - 2007.02.13 20:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
He he come find me.........
Supposedly a char with survey V and some sick other skills can kind of find a cloaked ship.............
atm you cannot find a cloaked ship. Devs were planning to implement it but they haven't (yet).
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Prant
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Posted - 2007.02.13 22:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cors
Edited by: Cors on 13/02/2007 20:49:19
I don't mean to suggest it should be EASY to find them, but it shouldn't border on impossible, either. I was told you have to be within 2000m of a cloaked ship to detect it. I have no idea if this is accurate, so I'll use 5000m as the true range. You'd have to check 30000 spots for every linear AU, somewhere around 2.7 million spots if you search in 2 dimensions.
The current convention makes it impossible. It shouldn't be impossible.
--Edited for courtesy--
I think your math is too low by a factor of 1000 in the linear case already but it doesnt change your point, of course.
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TwIsTeDSoLdIeR
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Posted - 2007.02.13 22:50:00 -
[11]
If they bring this in i dont think its fair to be able to find the exact location of the cloaked ship (it defeats the object of being cloaked) but to get close to the place where he is cloaked or the spot where he was while cloaking like when u set scan probes out it scans out an anomaly of some kind but cant quite pin it down.
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.02.13 22:55:00 -
[12]
When you can no longer instantly detect anyone in your system merely by glancing down at the local chat tab, I might be in favor of probing out cloaked ships. 'Till then, forget it. Yeah, the current setup may be a prime example of lame game mechanics, but cloaking is gimpy enough already.
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Kesh McCall
Caldari
Malkalen Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cors
Greetings!
I have a quick question--is it at all possible to find a ship that is somewhere in your system, but almost definately cloaked? I've read, and heard, different answers to this question, but none cited any definitive source that I could actually look at and see. Essentially I heard yes, with a specific probe, and I've heard no, because said probe has not yet been added to the game (but will be).
I am aware of the proximity rule--if you get close enough, you'll see them. I'm talking about something that is less than the proverbial grain of sand on the beach, though.
Many thanks!
no
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Eralus
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:16:00 -
[14]
Two part solution:
1) Cloaked ships don't show up in local.
2) A 'Cloak Integrity' property. One way this could work:
A ship that isn't near any other ship has a cloak integrity of 100. A ship that is 10km from another ship has a cloak integrity of 80. At 4km it's 20. And a ship that is 2km from another ship has a cloak integrity of 0 - i.e., no cloak. So, as now, if I get within 2km of your cloaked ship, I see you.
But, a module is introduced that interferes with cloaking devices. And the closer you are to me, the more it interferes. So maybe at 4km, my cloak interference module reduces your cloak integrity by 5. So if I've got 4 of them, and you're within 4 KM of me, I see you.
These modules should gang-stack. So if I and my buddy each have 4 of these modules, and you're 4 km of me, we've combined to reduce your cloak integrity by 40.
This does a couple things. First, it's not a random-chance based thing - it's not "Scan for cloaked ship, and one out of 30 random times I see it." Second, it lets cloaked ships work to avoid being decloaked. If I see you, I just have to fly around so I stay far enough away from you that you can't decloak me. Third, it gives other people a reasonable opportunity to decloak you, especially at particular locations, if they have the right equipment and teamwork.
Maybe couple this with a scan module that lets you find cloaked ships, but maybe only with 100km or so of precision.
An alternative would be to let alliances with sovereignty install permanent fixtures that make cloaks use more cap, so you can still run around the system cloaked, but only as long as you have cap boosters to power the cloak.
_____
Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Pholocix
Digital Horizons
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:21:00 -
[15]
The only way you can "find" a cloaked ship is to have an uncloaked object within 2,000 M of it. Another cloaked object will not decloak you. Multiple cloaked ships can bounce off each other all day, of course one of them decloaks and you start a nice chain reaction.
If you found yourself in a fair fight your intel sucks. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:36:00 -
[16]
Cloaks are of great value on non-combat ships as they let you hide without logging off. If they get nerfed, they get replaced by logging off and leaving an alt to watch the system instead.
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IBTL \o/
Fix the ******* map!
Privateers FTW |
Billy Sastard
Amarr
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:42:00 -
[17]
Even if CCP changes things so that cloakers can be scanned, I will be safe! I have this sneaky black hood, you see??
/me sneaks into ur systemz
-=^=-
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:45:00 -
[18]
humm....how to put this.
Ah yes, Try probeing for a Uncloaked Covert ops frigate sometime. Battleship strong sensors on frigate hulls ftw! All the ships designed to fit cloaks have this trait.
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:46:00 -
[19]
Actually it IS possible to scan out cloaked ships. It is a "bug" though. Some people know how to do it. Others don't have dev friends. ahahah I ***** myself up. Fanbois, pawns, play a game that you can move the chess pieces, not one that moves you.
~~~~~~~~~
Hi. I'm Rock. Make Eve good for rock. Give me scissor arms! |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Actually it IS possible to scan out cloaked ships. It is a "bug" though. Some people know how to do it. Others don't have dev friends. ahahah I ***** myself up. Fanbois, pawns, play a game that you can move the chess pieces, not one that moves you.
It talking **** a requirement when you have an all-caps name, or just a handy addon?
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IBTL \o/
Fix the ******* map!
Privateers FTW |
Flapp
Dog Tags
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:15:00 -
[21]
So a CovOps is in your system and you can't probe him down?
Fine with me.
First of all he got a name, maybe a corp. or alliance reference?
Good, so you know who is probing you out. In case of an Alt, you know your enemies anyway, makes no difference.
Second, why in this system? Is it a choke point, a place you build your titan in, a logistical stronghold, a rally point?
Third, trick him! He just knows what is going on in this very system. Move fleets around him, whatever it takes to make his calls home work in your favour.
In a nutshell, don't try to kill Mr. Cloak but use him to your advantage.
Intel works both ways... 
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Lord Bleu
The Xizor Cartel
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Steppa
In my humble opinion, this is the single worst mechanic in the game eclipsed only (maybe) by the fact that you can warp to a can that's 151km away, but not a ship.
Ah yes, becuase 99% of ships in a sector are cloaked, dang it how we cant find those invisible ships!
>> The Xizor Cartel << >> Currently Recruiting Mature PVP'ers << |
dalmety
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:32:00 -
[23]
i personally dont think u should be able to scan down a cloaked ship, it rather defeates the point of the cloak in the first place. I also dont think while cloaked the character should be visible in local, the first anyone should see of a cloaked ship is it de-cloaking on top of them. considering how expensive a cloak is these days i would take it as rather unfair that a mission runner is near to impossible to scan down but a cloaked ship isnt.
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Cors
Gallente
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Prant
Originally by: Cors
Edited by: Cors on 13/02/2007 20:49:19
I don't mean to suggest it should be EASY to find them, but it shouldn't border on impossible, either. I was told you have to be within 2000m of a cloaked ship to detect it. I have no idea if this is accurate, so I'll use 5000m as the true range. You'd have to check 30000 spots for every linear AU, somewhere around 2.7 million spots if you search in 2 dimensions.
The current convention makes it impossible. It shouldn't be impossible.
--Edited for courtesy--
I think your math is too low by a factor of 1000 in the linear case already but it doesnt change your point, of course.
Ugh! You're right--I failed to convert to meters when considering an AU at 150 mil km.
I like the idea of being able to "find" a cloak with probes, perhaps down to a few km area. A group of ships may find him or her, but a solo likely won't. I also like the idea of using real-world skills to track them down via trianglulation, etc. I don't mind working for my prize.
Fair Travels!
Cors
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roadrage639
Caldari
Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:42:00 -
[25]
What about if they where to bring out a module that disrupts cloaking within a certain range of you when active?
The Man Who Runs Will Fight Again
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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 14/02/2007 00:52:21
Personally i'd be satisfied with a probe that will let you get "near", as in.. 20 KM or so. Your expensive little force recon will be safe, unless you are afk, if you are you deserve to die to begin with.
So you force the enemy to stay on the move, or at least pay attention. Cloaked gankers will find them in a spot of trouble as their damage dealers can't warp while cloaked, this is where the gang with drones come in, sweep the area.
So, a force recon pilot that is paying attention can remain undetected if he has his wits about him, normal ship pilots with cloaks will have to stay on the move as this 10 minute cycle probe gives away their position.
Currently they are broken, i can't believe ccp hasn't adressed this yet.
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.02.14 01:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: roadrage639
What about if they where to bring out a module that disrupts cloaking within a certain range of you when active?
I wouldn't have much problem with that, if...
a) appearing in local chat was optional
b) pilots could target, repair and reload while cloaked
Right now, you can't hardly do a damn thing while cloaked, except spy. Gimp it any further, and you might as well remove it from the game.
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RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.02.14 02:48:00 -
[28]
I see a lot of people complaining about cloaked ships, but I don't see must of an issue. A cloak ship can do nothing but look, its just a pair of eyes. The only questionable use of it is with account sharing, but any big alliance can just put real members on cloak duty anyways, so it dosen't make that much difference to actual game mechanics. Plus if you gimp it you also gimp the movements of every ship that needs a cyno, which IMO isn't very good for the game.
I say leave it as is, it's a non issue. Not to mention that smaller alliances and pirates, ratters, and solo players need it to do their buisness with a chance of success in alliance space.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.02.14 03:29:00 -
[29]
this is a moot point
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Cpt Toxic
Freelancers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.14 06:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: roadrage639
What about if they where to bring out a module that disrupts cloaking within a certain range of you when active?
Modules exist but they weren't released to the masses
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Mira deVorsha
Caldari
Boards.ie
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Posted - 2007.02.14 06:40:00 -
[31]
Despite what people say it is sometimes possible to probed down a cloaked ship. If the cloaked person is a noob.
Prototype cloaks. It is possible to find these kinds of ships if they don't take precautions. If the person has warped to a safepoint and you capture their location. Even if they cloak you can still get to that location. If they have not moved off of their entry point axis warping will automatically decloak them.
Its not 100% possible. I've done it twice out of numerous scans (both times scaring the heck out of the person cloaked).
Recon ships. These are next to impossible. If the cloaker is probing the system then you can find them by looking for multispectral probes. It will get you to their location, if they are not a good distance away from the probe you can sometimes get them.
Other then that, its next to impossible to find a cloaked ship. There are also certain fittings that can scatter a scan probe from getting a lock while uncloaked. I forget the name offhand.
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Haffrage
Less than Ideal
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Posted - 2007.02.14 07:52:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
Despite what people say it is sometimes possible to probed down a cloaked ship. If the cloaked person is a noob.
Prototype cloaks. It is possible to find these kinds of ships if they don't take precautions. If the person has warped to a safepoint and you capture their location. Even if they cloak you can still get to that location. If they have not moved off of their entry point axis warping will automatically decloak them.
Its not 100% possible. I've done it twice out of numerous scans (both times scaring the heck out of the person cloaked).
Recon ships. These are next to impossible. If the cloaker is probing the system then you can find them by looking for multispectral probes. It will get you to their location, if they are not a good distance away from the probe you can sometimes get them.
Other then that, its next to impossible to find a cloaked ship. There are also certain fittings that can scatter a scan probe from getting a lock while uncloaked. I forget the name offhand.
Uhm, I'd be more comfortable if you would back up some (any?) of this "information" with this stuff I call "proof" or even "evidence." Safespots? You probe somebody down in a safe and you're not going to warp to the same point they have BM'd, you'll warp to a distance relative to their location. If they warp to safes at 100km (as we all should just in case) and you WERE to warp in on the same BM, and you probe him and get an accuracy of 70KM, you'll be warping to 70KM off of him, not 70KM off of his safe BM.
And uh, for exploration, multispectral probes only need to be out long enough for ONE scan. They delete it and move along. They have to get 2KM away from the probe to recloak, standard procedure is usually drop probe, double click in random direction while 15 second launch timer wears off, hit scan, and recloak. I'm not sure many people stop for the scan, and the 30 seconds to scan him down while going base speed on any covops (or recon) is a fairly long distance to check, even if you know the general direction he's going in.
Fact is, cloaks are fairly secure. Which AFAIK is the INTENT of cloaking. Being undetectable and safe. In exchange nothing else can be put online and you can't reload.
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Doxs Roxs
White Wolves Defence league
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.14 09:12:00 -
[33]
This seriously needs a fix, people should not be able to go afk while cloaked and be 100% safe.
Just ensure that cloaked ships are harder to scan down and we are ok.(just like it was promised in the dev blog)
If you want your cloaker to be really hard to find, fit ECCM modules on it. (thats the counter to being probed)
If you are actually playing the game then you will have no problem avoiding an enemy warping in on you trying to decloak you since you can see him and avoid him while he has no idea in what direction you went.
To sum it up, you should not be able to sit cloaked and afk in a system, if you want to play the game, do it actively.
Regards
/Doxs
After 9 months of being a "!" face, I now discover that Im butt ugly instead... |
Necronomicon
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.14 09:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Cpt Toxic
Originally by: roadrage639
What about if they where to bring out a module that disrupts cloaking within a certain range of you when active?
Modules exist but they weren't released to the masses
Setting off a doomsday device usually disrupts their cloaks 
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
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Depp Knight
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.14 10:09:00 -
[35]
Cloak ships are fine. The problem is cloak hostile alts sitting in your home doing nothing more than that.
The problem here is that nearly every ship in eve apart from some frigs can fit a cloak on their ship. Huge problem this is.
If only certain ships could fit a cloak. IMO a normal cloak should only be fitted on combat recons and stealth bombers, the covert ops cloaks are perfect as they are. Meaning only ships like covert ops, stealth and recon should should be able to cloak.
As for battleships and capitals imo they should be to big to be cloaked.
As for T2 battleships, wouldnt it be cool to have a recon battleship that can cloak everyone around it? Thats what i would like to see a t2 bs be like, it could hide an entire fleet in a system but this is a little off topic.
Who ever mentioned that cloaked ships not appearing in local, thats a good point. Imagein a whole fleet in system but not in local. Alot eve can do.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.14 10:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Depp Knight
Cloak ships are fine. The problem is cloak hostile alts sitting in your home doing nothing more than that.
The problem here is that nearly every ship in eve apart from some frigs can fit a cloak on their ship. Huge problem this is.
If only certain ships could fit a cloak. IMO a normal cloak should only be fitted on combat recons and stealth bombers, the covert ops cloaks are perfect as they are. Meaning only ships like covert ops, stealth and recon should should be able to cloak.
As for battleships and capitals imo they should be to big to be cloaked.
As for T2 battleships, wouldnt it be cool to have a recon battleship that can cloak everyone around it? Thats what i would like to see a t2 bs be like, it could hide an entire fleet in a system but this is a little off topic.
Who ever mentioned that cloaked ships not appearing in local, thats a good point. Imagein a whole fleet in system but not in local. Alot eve can do.
No, being able to cloak any ship I want to move aroud quietly is quite nice, kthxbye
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IBTL \o/
Fix the ******* map!
Privateers FTW |
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