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Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.03.31 21:00:00 -
[181]
 Originally by: Belmarduk
Remember the time before wtz ?
Its fine as it is now - wtz per AP would be very bad for pvp
The time before WTZ was when some people had WTZ through insatas (causing a lot of lag) and other people didn't. At least now the playing field is level.
Originally by: Cailais
Anything which makes it easier for a player to be absent from the game - whilst still playing the game (i.e AFK) is a bad idea.
EVE is a MMO game - Massively Multiplayer, not Massively AFK. Needless to say it would also assist macro programs and isk farmers in general. Demands for WTZ autopilot come from very very lazy players. What next? AP PVP? AP Exploration?
WTZ was in some respects a step to far, but it was necessary to assist in reducing lag. Not one step further thank-you.
C.
1 - I don't see how a WTZ autopilot can help macro users because I don't see anything that would stop them already having a WTZ autopilot macro. I also expect the ISK farmers to be mostly macro users, so they are also covered here. So unless you can point out such a system, I don't see how this would help them.
2 - Why is having to chose between a very boring task or having it take longer a good idea when we are playing Eve to have fun ?
3 - Saying that an argument is a bad idea because we will then ask for even worse things is a slippery slope fallacy and is usually invalid. The only time it is valid is when you can show that doing x is guaranteed to lead to y. However you haven't even attempted to show how a WTZ autopilot will lead to people asking for anything else to become easier.
Nor have you shown why stopping between a WTZ autopilot and one of those other changes (all of which I oppose) is a bad idea.
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Cailais
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Posted - 2008.03.31 23:21:00 -
[182]
How are you having 'fun' if youre AFK and on autopilot?
Admitedly you might be having fun doing something other than eve.
You could argue that rather than have WTZ AP why not just cut out the journey all together and just be able to jump from one system to another? I mean, wheres the 'fun' in just watching your screen?
Games, and EVE is a game, are based upon interaction. You press a key, and the game reacts. Reducing those key presses makes a game less interactive - not more.
WTZ (manual) means you are making a concious effort to gain a specific advantage - be that increased safety or reduced travel time. You - the player - are expending effort to get that advantage over another player who is not (and is just leaving it to the PC on 'auto').
The same could be said of orbit at x KM in PVP. Yes you can do that, press F1 - F8 and hope for the best (its effectively automated from their on in: but a player who flies manually will always gain the upper hand.
Lets say CCP implement AP WTZ. Would you then argue for an automated docking system? e.g set AP to station X and dock? After all docking is quite boring done enough times. What about Set AP to station X, auto dock, auto unload cargo, auto sell items?
These could all be argued to be 'not fun' activities. Its because we conduct all of these small acts that the illusion of activity occurs, we become immersed in the game and we subsequently enjoy the experience.
We dont set up a list of automated tasks and go out for the day.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.04.01 10:29:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Cailais
WTZ (manual) means you are making a concious effort to gain a specific advantage - be that increased safety or reduced travel time. You - the player - are expending effort to get that advantage over another player who is not (and is just leaving it to the PC on 'auto').
Couldn't agree more. Having thought about it more, you don't actually gain much at all in high-sec unless you're a target for suiciding or a war target. If it were not for those, I'd argue for WTZ AP in high-sec only, but even then it'd be yet another disparity, something to put off players from low-sec & null-sec. I think overall those of us not doing something that interesting (i.e. just making 47 safe jumps from A to B) have to accept that those involved in the riskier side of things need that manual addition.
Originally by: Cailais
Lets say CCP implement AP WTZ. Would you then argue for an automated docking system? e.g set AP to station X and dock? After all docking is quite boring done enough times. What about Set AP to station X, auto dock, auto unload cargo, auto sell items?
Whilst I take your point as deliberate exaggeration, I'm not sure this is fair. As I said in my earlier post, travel really doesn't make the game. PvP, trade, mining, etc. are the meat of the game. Automating those would be akin to legalising macroing and we already know how likely that is. I suspect the problem is perception. When you're starting out and no-one wants to kill you, it's easy to be bored with travelling manually because it doesn't gain you anything. What is hard to appreciate is that for a lot of more seasoned players, every jump isn't just yet another system, it's yet another place where someone may try and kill you, and every advantage you can gain is critical.
Originally by: Cailais
Its because we conduct all of these small acts that the illusion of activity occurs, we become immersed in the game and we subsequently enjoy the experience.
Agreed, though perhaps the problem isn't manual vs automatic, it's that the initial introduction into EVE for players (the first few months) can make travel extremely dull and unrewarding. I vary in my response to manual travel. Sometimes I think, yay, I really speeded that up, I did well, think how long I'd have had to wait on autopilot. Other times I think, oh god, if it weren't for gankers I'd just stick it on autopilot and go and do something else. I suspect it comes down to how much I really want to be doing the task I'm doing, whether I view it as a good thing or a necessary evil. That's a much bigger game design question.
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"If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.04.01 19:05:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Cailais
How are you having 'fun' if youre AFK and on autopilot?
Admitedly you might be having fun doing something other than eve.
Yes, the fun would come in doing other things while waiting for the travel to complete. Pity that manual flight requires too much interaction to do that.
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You could argue that rather than have WTZ AP why not just cut out the journey all together and just be able to jump from one system to another? I mean, wheres the 'fun' in just watching your screen?
Because if CCP did this you wouldn't have to worry about gatecamps at all. With the current system, and with a WTZ AP, you would still have to worry about them if your ship takes too long to align.
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Games, and EVE is a game, are based upon interaction. You press a key, and the game reacts. Reducing those key presses makes a game less interactive - not more.
True. But when the interaction consists entirely of pressing a key sequence, waiting for a while with nothing to do (at least 30 seconds warping most of the time), then pressing the same sequence again, what exactly is lost here that is worth making players bored ?
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WTZ (manual) means you are making a concious effort to gain a specific advantage - be that increased safety or reduced travel time. You - the player - are expending effort to get that advantage over another player who is not (and is just leaving it to the PC on 'auto').
Unless your flying a ship that aligns quickly the WTZ AP would still be less safe than manual flight because it will always ignore the gate camp it jumped into and try to warp to the next gate only to get scrambled. Even if you were watching the screen it wouldn't help because the autopilot would of decloaked you before you even realised that there was a gatecamp.
I'd expect this to cause a few people to get used to WTZ APing around low sec safely in frigates. Then they move up a to a bigger ship, which they lose to the first gatecamp they hit because it aligns too slow. I think the AP turns itself off when you get scrambled, meaning they are likely to also get podded.
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The same could be said of orbit at x KM in PVP. Yes you can do that, press F1 - F8 and hope for the best (its effectively automated from their on in: but a player who flies manually will always gain the upper hand.
And with a WTZ autopilot, the manual player would still have the upper hand because the autopilot ignores gatecamps.
Quote:
Lets say CCP implement AP WTZ. Would you then argue for an automated docking system? e.g set AP to station X and dock? After all docking is quite boring done enough times.
Tempting, but I'd prefer seeing ships sitting AFK at gates if the player isn't there so that someone can kill them if they are worth killing.
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What about Set AP to station X, auto dock, auto unload cargo,
It would screw with my item sorting.
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auto sell items?
How would it know the price ?
Base it off market average or the highest buy order and someone would screw with it, making manual better. Though it would make Jita runs more bareable.
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These could all be argued to be 'not fun' activities. Its because we conduct all of these small acts that the illusion of activity occurs, we become immersed in the game and we subsequently enjoy the experience.
Yes, the small acts aid immersion. But the long waits between these acts ruins it again.
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Cailais
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Posted - 2008.04.01 21:50:00 -
[185]
Youre contradicting yourself.
You say people would use WTZ AP in low sec for frigates as they align quickly - but then how are you sitting there for ages waiting to align with a manual warp?
Then you say people wont use it once theyre in larger ships because of the risk, so theyre back to manual WTZ - so whats the point??
I think youre really making a massive deal over a really tiny amount of time spent activating something - so much so Im inclined to call 'troll' and leave it at that.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Kiran Jiyuu
Sanctuary
Aegis Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.02 06:14:00 -
[186]
Sure. Give us AP WTZ. I'm sure there are lots of carebears (me included) who would love it. But since EVE isn't Carebear Online and we have a great bunch of pvp'ers, pirates, griefers, morons, gankers, drunk gankers and thieves that make EVE that terrifying, inhospitable place we all love to bits lets then also open up for Empire Bubbles.
If you're going to give haulers and afk travellers the benefit of fast and pretty much safe travel you really should give pirates some more tools to stop their prey from escaping.
Why do you need AP WTZ?
EVE is the time of dangerous space travel. Please don't make it safe. |
Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.04.02 07:24:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Cailais
Youre contradicting yourself.
You say people would use WTZ AP in low sec for frigates as they align quickly - but then how are you sitting there for ages waiting to align with a manual warp?
It's not the waiting to align I have problems with. It's the waiting while the ship is in warp, or while my ship is jumping between systems.
Frigates would only be useful for a WTZ AP in low sec because they can align faster than someone can lock and scramble them. Even then I'm not sure just how fast someone would need to enter warp to be safe.
Quote:
Then you say people wont use it once theyre in larger ships because of the risk, so theyre back to manual WTZ - so whats the point??
It's still a better deal for people who won't be at risk by using it. But the point I was making there was that the WTZ AP looks likely to cause more people to get killed in a gatecamp if they get into the habit of travelling through low sec under autopilot.
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I think youre really making a massive deal over a really tiny amount of time spent activating something - so much so Im inclined to call 'troll' and leave it at that.
If you want to call me a troll it would of been better when you first posted in reply to me, not after I've been attacking your arguments. And since you aren't a mod here, why should I care if you think I'm a troll ?
If you really think I'm a troll, stop responding to me. But that would leave my arguments unanswered.
Originally by: Kiran Jiyuu
Sure. Give us AP WTZ. I'm sure there are lots of carebears (me included) who would love it. But since EVE isn't Carebear Online and we have a great bunch of pvp'ers, pirates, griefers, morons, gankers, drunk gankers and thieves that make EVE that terrifying, inhospitable place we all love to bits lets then also open up for Empire Bubbles.
If you're going to give haulers and afk travellers the benefit of fast and pretty much safe travel you really should give pirates some more tools to stop their prey from escaping.
Why do you need AP WTZ?
EVE is the time of dangerous space travel. Please don't make it safe.
I'll ask you the same question I've asked of everyone saying that a WTZ AP would make eve safer: How would the autopilot, which ignores gatecamps, make the game safer than manual flight ?
I only want the WTZ AP so that I can do something else instead of being bored as I travel from place to place. Even low sec travel is boring when I'm in a frigate.
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Retribution RagnaRRRR
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Posted - 2008.04.02 08:19:00 -
[188]
NO
It would turn EvE into a dead whastland where most of the charactors wore just offline or AFK making money. Thats not how the game works.
If you want work done you have to invest your or other peoples game time in doing so - as worek = time spend.
If you got the warp to 0 implemented you will turn EvE into SWG where people wore making billions bieng offline or AFK farming isk.
Its bad enough that there isnt a real counter for macrow mining, it pushes inflasion even further in the game.
And another thing, autopilote warp to 0 will benefit people like those with many accounts fare more then the people with just one account, as they can cover more space. It will make EvE much smaller to have warp to 0 as a autopilote option.
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Siigari Kitawa
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Posted - 2008.04.02 09:09:00 -
[189]
AP WTZ would be the absolute destruction of all creative gameplay.
CCP does not reward laziness. Autopilot is a way of giving your ship control so you can do other things such as have an important corporation meeting or manage your wallet, all of which are very in-depth things that require 100% attention. Autopilot allows you to do these things, but at that cost, you cannot warp to 0 and jump immediately.
It would be another pirate nerf, and pirates have been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed.
This is not MAKEISK-Online, this is EVE-Online.
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Kiran Jiyuu
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Posted - 2008.04.02 15:16:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Hesod Adee
I'll ask you the same question I've asked of everyone saying that a WTZ AP would make eve safer: How would the autopilot, which ignores gatecamps, make the game safer than manual flight ?
I only want the WTZ AP so that I can do something else instead of being bored as I travel from place to place. Even low sec travel is boring when I'm in a frigate.
Ok, so maybe it won't be a lot safer than if you're actively flying manually, but the point is it'll make flying AFK as safe as flying manually.
Pilots shouldn't, in my opinion, be allowed to fly as safe as if you're handling the controls yourself when you're not even there. AP WTZ is a tool for just that, and that is why I do not agree with it.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
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Cyberman Mastermind
Omega and Alpha
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Posted - 2008.04.03 11:41:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Kiran Jiyuu
Ok, so maybe it won't be a lot safer than if you're actively flying manually, but the point is it'll make flying AFK as safe as flying manually.
Not quite as safe, the main danger from flying AFK is that you can't react.
Jumping into a gatecamp while not being at your client will get you killed - regardless of wether you're flying with AP or not.
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I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner. |
Thargat
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Posted - 2008.04.03 11:50:00 -
[192]
NOT having wtz autopilot is good because it rewards players that are at the keyboard in contrast to those that aint.
And don't give me any BS about multi-accounting, I do that plenty enough myself without the stupid autopilot.
When CCP introduced WTZ they did so because people were abusing insta bookmarks to such a degree that the overall player experience was beginning to suffer (mostly due to DB lag). And yes it's been mentioned a gazillion times in this thread and others previously, but people don't seem to bother reading threads to the full these days so I'm bringing it up again.
WTZ still a feature "marked in green" afaik and as such is "temporary".
My personal hopes is that CCP soon has the issue with insta bookmarks solved and reinstates WT15.
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
Astria Tiphareth
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.03 14:03:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 03/04/2008 14:06:12
Originally by: Retribution RagnaRRRR
It would turn EvE into a dead whastland where most of the charactors wore just offline or AFK making money. Thats not how the game works.
If you want work done you have to invest your or other peoples game time in doing so - as worek = time spend.
If you got the warp to 0 implemented you will turn EvE into SWG where people wore making billions bieng offline or AFK farming isk.
Oh god not another one.
EVE players make billions offline already. WTZ AP has no impact on that. It is not going to destroy the economy of EVE or any other apocalyptic nonsense, it just caters to a particularly lazy type of gameplay and does affect combat. We don't need to support that laziness and make life more awkward for PvP.
If you're going to counter-argument (and before you launch into that, I'll reiterate to bear in mind my previous post agrees with Cailais and others that WTZ AP isn't necessary) please pretty please actually use an argument. It just hurts the counter-argument if you don't.
If you've never done any trading or industrialism, don't comment on them. I know several players in EVE that actually have to do very very little to make money once they have enough capital to do it (read: a lot of capital). Making money whilst offline has absolutely nothing to do with warping around AFK. Equally it has little to do with the business of making money. WTZ AP is, and I'll highlight it for you just to make sure, about travelling not making money.
Edit:
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
CCP does not reward laziness.
This. Indeed though the rest of the post meandered into the same realms as the one I criticise above, this saves it 
___
"If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
Julia Newmatar
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.03 16:32:00 -
[194]
I'm sure someone has already said this but, you want to have WTZ autopilot, then why not just take away gates, just have warp to wherever you want to be, or even better just take away space who needs it, all those other players out there are just in your way anyway.
For that matter just have a universe wide "Auction House" and limit all pvp to "arenas", who want's to be caught off-guard and forced into battle anyway.
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Valeri Greon
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Posted - 2008.04.04 12:12:00 -
[195]
I do, despite wanting the WTZ autopilot as well.
Currently I'm flying only manually, unless in highsec with nothing important to lose. I don't gripe about being podded - it's part of the game. I don't care much if my ship gets blown to smithereens - I have spares. I don't even overly care about losing my augmentations - they were free (I'm a newbie).
But I do care about the time I have to spend doing simple, idiotic tasks a very simple macro or a basic autopilot IRL could do (when starting point is what we already have in Eve). It interrupts my chatting, prevents me from visiting forums and from various similar Eve-related tasks. Most of the time I have barely time to load up Market and check prices... Which is very annoying.
Sure, I could go dock and then do those things - which would extend the time I'm required to be playing considerably to achieve the same results. And it would make the game even more boring, which would mean that soon I wouldn't be playing Eve at all.
What I want to know if there are any good reasons against WTZ autopilot beyond "it's never been so and should never be so because I couldn't adapt"?
(I apologize for the aggressive tone, but I'm tired of seeing the same stale and non-factual arguments. Think it through. I'm sure there's something we've missed.)
--
Anything is possible.
Right-click is your friend. |
Ephemeral Waves
In terrorem
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.04 15:14:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Tom Deal
Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation?
Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms?
Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what?
Something does not fit 
TD
In-character: cuz it's dangerous to have autopilots movings thips at trans-light velocities that close to very important, very expensive, and very fragile warp gates.
Out-of-character: there has to be some risk to running around afk. You are paying to play a game. If you want to bot/macro your way, WoW is that way-->
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Hesod Adee
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Posted - 2008.04.04 21:01:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Retribution RagnaRRRR
NO
It would turn EvE into a dead whastland where most of the charactors wore just offline or AFK making money. Thats not how the game works.
How would it do this when the means of making money are found at the ends of the trips people would be APing ?
Quote:
And another thing, autopilote warp to 0 will benefit people like those with many accounts fare more then the people with just one account, as they can cover more space. It will make EvE much smaller to have warp to 0 as a autopilote option.
Yes, multiple account players will get more of an advantage here. But only for the times they have one account travelling at least 2 jumps and the other doing something that requires a lot of attention. So what would they be doing here ?
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
AP WTZ would be the absolute destruction of all creative gameplay.
How is clicking warp to, then set as first waypoint, then turning on the autopilot "creative gameplay" ?
Quote:
CCP does not reward laziness. Autopilot is a way of giving your ship control so you can do other things such as have an important corporation meeting or manage your wallet, all of which are very in-depth things that require 100% attention. Autopilot allows you to do these things, but at that cost, you cannot warp to 0 and jump immediately.
How long do those things take ?
And the WTZ AP would still help there because it would remove the need for clicking at each jump, meaning the player can focus more on the other task.
Quote:
It would be another pirate nerf, and pirates have been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed.
Worst case I see for WTZ AP for pirates is that they don't catch any more people in their gatecamps, while a lot more uncatchable people fly past. I can't see how it would reduce the number of catchable people.
But what I'm actually expecting is that the WTZ AP will jump a few people into gatecamps where they die because it decloaks them while trying to warp in the wrong direction. So how can a system which will, at worst, do nothing to the number of ships a gatecamp can catch be a nerf to pirates ?
Originally by: Thargat
NOT having wtz autopilot is good because it rewards players that are at the keyboard in contrast to those that aint.
Yes, it rewards people who can stand the bordem over the people who want to have fun.
Quote:
When CCP introduced WTZ they did so because people were abusing insta bookmarks to such a degree that the overall player experience was beginning to suffer (mostly due to DB lag). And yes it's been mentioned a gazillion times in this thread and others previously, but people don't seem to bother reading threads to the full these days so I'm bringing it up again.
Why did CCP chose to give everyone the benefits of instas instead of just deleting all bookmarks close to gates ?
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WTZ still a feature "marked in green" afaik and as such is "temporary".
We have had WTZ for over a year now. I don't see it going away.
Quote:
My personal hopes is that CCP soon has the issue with insta bookmarks solved and reinstates WT15.
Nor do I see you making a thread suggesting CCP brings back WT15.
Originally by: Kiran Jiyuu
Ok, so maybe it won't be a lot safer than if you're actively flying manually, but the point is it'll make flying AFK as safe as flying manually.
My first post in this thread shows why I think the WTZ AP will be less safe than manual flight. Not slightly safer. Not just as safe. Less safe.
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Hesod Adee
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Posted - 2008.04.04 21:02:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
In-character: cuz it's dangerous to have autopilots movings thips at trans-light velocities that close to very important, very expensive, and very fragile warp gates.
So instead of letting the computer handle the math required to say exactly how long the warp drive should run, they instead leave the calculations to be handled by an organic brain. Even when computers are much faster at the calculations, much easier to train once you have worked out the equations that the organic brain, much less prone to errors, and not vulnerable to things like bordem from doing the same non-challenging task over and over.
So what advantages does the organic brain have to make up for all this ?
Quote:
Out-of-character: there has to be some risk to running around afk. You are paying to play a game. If you want to bot/macro your way, WoW is that way-->
We play games to avoid bordem. Manual warp travel in Eve is boring unless you hit a gatecamp (where the AP will fail). The WTZ AP will let us stay entertained elsewhere without increasing how long we spend traveling.
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Valeri Greon
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.11 21:16:00 -
[199]
/bump
--
Anything is possible.
Right-click is your friend. |
Zartach Tzarszh
Minmatar
The Royal Engineers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 02:08:00 -
[200]
WTZ is as statted not something intended but was implemented as a replacement of an exploitive way of game mechanics where effort is rewarded with faster travel time.
CCP have stated numerous times they were not happy with this solution and have tried to revert it to a random range even numerous times. But it created too much problems so they left it as warp to 0.
In this :effort: pwns :lazy: sa AP will make you slowboat. If you dont want to manual navigate 30 jumps then review what you are doing. I have set up my activities so that i can be everywhere i want to be within 10 jumps from my base location. For deep 0.0 i generaly sit either in a capship jumping in and out or use jumpcloes and inside base there its basicly the same range for all the activities i have to do.
Except find targets -_-
I know Jita is a nice market, but its not the only one and afk trading from jita to some local hub should not become more easy as it is now.
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Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.04.12 03:12:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Zartach Tzarszh
WTZ is as statted not something intended but was implemented as a replacement of an exploitive way of game mechanics where effort is rewarded with faster travel time.
One which gave everyone the ability that the exploiters were using, instead of just putting everyone back to what they had before the exploit was found.
Quote:
CCP have stated numerous times they were not happy with this solution and have tried to revert it to a random range even numerous times. But it created too much problems so they left it as warp to 0.
Unless you can provide links to where CCP said they tried this, I won't believe you. Even if randomisation isn't possible, it doesn't seem like it would of been difficult to prevent instas without giving us WTZ. Just delete all BMs that are close to gates (which they did with WTZ) and prevent new ones being created that close.
Quote:
In this :effort: pwns :lazy: sa AP will make you slowboat. If you dont want to manual navigate 30 jumps then review what you are doing. I have set up my activities so that i can be everywhere i want to be within 10 jumps from my base location. For deep 0.0 i generaly sit either in a capship jumping in and out or use jumpcloes and inside base there its basicly the same range for all the activities i have to do.
So how would a trader set things up so that can have short enough trips to manually warp ?
And how can a long distance hauler compete with a macro hauler, when the macros would have WTZ built in, but the legit player either must put up with serious bordem or a longer travelling time ?
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.12 03:13:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Hesod Adee
We play games to avoid bordem. Manual warp travel in Eve is boring unless you hit a gatecamp (where the AP will fail). The WTZ AP will let us stay entertained elsewhere without increasing how long we spend traveling.
And if everyone is doing this - who in fact is actually 'playing' EVE?
Really - consider what you're suggesting: Hundreds if not thousands of players not at their PCs but watching tele, down the pub, asleep. Corp chat channels deathly silent, trade channels mute, local chat a vacuum.
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.04.12 03:28:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Hesod Adee
We play games to avoid bordem. Manual warp travel in Eve is boring unless you hit a gatecamp (where the AP will fail). The WTZ AP will let us stay entertained elsewhere without increasing how long we spend traveling.
And if everyone is doing this - who in fact is actually 'playing' EVE?
The people who have reached their destination and have started whatever they went there to do.
Quote:
Really - consider what you're suggesting: Hundreds if not thousands of players not at their PCs but watching tele, down the pub, asleep. Corp chat channels deathly silent, trade channels mute, local chat a vacuum.
How many of those players would be saying much anyway ?
How many of those AFK players already spend long periods AFK on autopilot ? (these players would spend less time AFK with a WTZ AP because it takes less time to get where they are going)
I'm expecting the majority of WTZ AP users to be players who turn it on for less than 10 jumps and go AFK for a short while (toilet break, quick bite to eat, etc). But the things the perform while AFK take a bit too long to do between jumps. I doubt it would effect the chat much.
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Valeri Greon
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.21 15:21:00 -
[204]
/bump
--
Anything is possible.
Right-click is your friend. |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.04.21 15:43:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Valandril
They gave ppl a finger and ppl want whole hand :|
I believe there are numerous caves now available since the last Ice Age. Please feel free to go live in one. The above will never be a good counter-argument to improvements and progress.
Except that AP to zero would be neither an improvement, nor progress.
Well, progress in lazy and effortless gaming perhaps.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
-Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam-
('nerf' means 'incompetence', esp. when you use it) |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.04.21 15:50:00 -
[206]
Why are you bumping this flamefest? It's never going to happen, it's an unwanted feature. If you're AFK you don't deserve a smooth trip, simple as that.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
|
Posted - 2008.04.21 16:08:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Why are you bumping this flamefest? It's never going to happen, it's an unwanted feature. If you're AFK you don't deserve a smooth trip, simple as that.
Agreed.
Oh, and as for the most popular argument: Quote:
The WTZ AP will let us stay entertained elsewhere without increasing how long we spend traveling.
How exactly will WTZ AP let you stay entertained?
For me 'entertained elsewhere' means AFK.
How can a game you're not actively playing affect your level of entertainment, at all?
The reason some people want WTZ AP is long travel times.
But other players are already complaining that the EVE universe feels too small.
Kind contradicting, isn't it?
Try to live with the fact that travelling longer distances takes some time.
If you want to reduce the time, fly manually.
The devs provided you with the tools.
It's your decision.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
-Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam-
('nerf' means 'incompetence', esp. when you use it) |
Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.04.22 00:45:00 -
[208]
Quote:
How exactly will WTZ AP let you stay entertained?
For me 'entertained elsewhere' means AFK.
How can a game you're not actively playing affect your level of entertainment, at all?
It lets us stay entertained because we don't need to come back every minute or so just to hit 3 commands that are identical every time (excluding gatecamps where the AP will make things worse). So we have longer uninterrupted stretches at whatever else we are doing.
Quote:
The reason some people want WTZ AP is long travel times.
But other players are already complaining that the EVE universe feels too small.
Kind contradicting, isn't it?
Yes, my arguments do contradict those of people calling Eve too small. So there is a difference of opinion here. So what ?
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Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.04.22 00:47:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Valandril
They gave ppl a finger and ppl want whole hand :|
I believe there are numerous caves now available since the last Ice Age. Please feel free to go live in one. The above will never be a good counter-argument to improvements and progress.
Except that AP to zero would be neither an improvement, nor progress.
Well, progress in lazy and effortless gaming perhaps.
The only effort I see with the current system is the effort to avoid bordem while travelling.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.04.22 02:37:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Tom Deal
Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation?
Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms?
Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what?
Something does not fit
TD
Never. Ever.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
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