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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.24 20:27:00 -
[91]
Originally by: ghosttr I kind of miss the days of being able to walk away during those 20 jumps or so through highsec it takes to get to my agents.
What? It was never faster to AP than it is today. The "old days" were when you had to sit in your chair and stare at your ship while it slowboated to each gate, whether you used AP or not.
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Aluthin
Caldari New Light KnightRaven Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.29 17:11:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Aluthin on 29/07/2007 17:12:19
Originally by: Nim9i5 you miss the point, you can still get rid of instas and make it 15km out of jump range. Just make it so no bookmarks can be made in the 15km range. I see no reason to make autopilot not go to 0, if you can do it manually you shoud be able to do it on autopilot. However you could also make it so everyone has to go the 15km, since you cant warp in closer than 15km into a gate.
Think of wtz as a pilot allowed item that concord as guardians of safe travel have allowed us too use but to cut down on potential accidents and to keep insurance costs down it is only allowed to be used by pilots in control not an autopilot that could malfunction and cause accidents thats how i look at it i mean in rl which would u prefer???
To be in a vehicle that is being driven by a computer or in control yourself..... i know being a driver i wouldn't want to have no control i hate being a passenger my foot is usally going through the floor lol :)
but in terms of gameplay wtz for autopilot just increases the amount of load on the servers think of all the ships that would be flitting around changing system every 30 - 60 secs depending on the warp time between gates i could see it really causing more lag especially in empire systems plus it would also damage empire wars as it would become so hard to actually trap and take out a war target....
So overall i'm for pilot controlled wtz but against autopilot wtz and am so glad instas are a thing of the past i once was stook for 20 minutes after opening my people and places and 40 mins copying them for a corp mate
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Oliask
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Posted - 2007.08.01 03:40:00 -
[93]
How about a skill to reduce autopilot warp-in distance. Start at 20k, each level reduces by 3.5k (min warp in is 2.5k). Maybe even go as low as 1k.
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ConTonkTen
Caldari Danish Trade and Mining Association
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:43:00 -
[94]
I now see that the idea of autopilot to zero is damaging to gameplay and would make eve too much of a safehaven in flight, the economy would be very affected since there would be no real danger in freighting goods and it would not take so much time.
I certainly stand corrected.
Now if you will excuse me....i have to sit at my computer and jump 18 jumps manually
Best Regards ConTonkTen (Danish Trading and Mining Association) It is better to die laughing, than to fade away in boredom.
"I have level 5 skills in giving the finger and getting out of trouble fast!!"
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Jayson Shakkyo
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Posted - 2007.08.18 00:00:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Tom Deal Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation?
Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms?
Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what?
Something does not fit
TD
Warp to Zero on autopilot should NEVER be added to this game and I hope that it never is. It would destory EVE Online completely adding it. The reasons are all to obvious, you would have thousands of players traveling in total safety while AFK and it would destroy vital tactics used in the game as well as kill the piracy aspect.
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Vanvittig Dyr
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.08.25 09:00:00 -
[96]
Sry If this suggestion already is in the pile but what about an autopilot operation skill (AOS)? without skill you jump to 15 km and at V you jump to 5 km or 3 km (still giving the pirates, concorde, costums, turrits and game mechanics a chance)
the RP reason is that there is a diffrence of what a peice of machinery like and autopilot can do and what a pilot can make it do.
The autopilot skill is a measure of how well the pilot can tell the ship where the gate is from several jumps away.
just my 2 cents |
Pivalak
Happy hOur Mining and industry
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Posted - 2007.08.30 14:41:00 -
[97]
I have a suggestion that would perhaps be an intermediate solution to everybody's wishes.
Right now, when you use AP, it would jump at 15km of the gate and then approach it at maximum velocity. However, even if the ship has an afterburner or MWD it would not enable it. What about making an option which would allow to select whether these modules should be activated on AP?
IMHO, it would make AP much more acceptable in the current situation and, at the same time, it would not harm the existing dangers of travelling through low-sec space, etc.
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.30 15:31:00 -
[98]
Nothing wrong with how it is right now. You want to travel faster, get your ass behind the wheel, no reward for the lazy
50+ Capitals well fitted = 150 Billion Day's of prep and planning = 3 Hours of hellish lag Look on coalition faces when they realize their fleet evaporated for............nothing = Priceless |
Idle Bow
Gallente Genesis Claymores
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Posted - 2007.09.30 10:07:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Idle Bow on 30/09/2007 10:11:17 Decided to make my vote for changing nothing on this topic.
As some people already stated, AFK to 0km would screw not one feature of the game. If you want to be safer, quicker - put efforts to it. If you want to get it easy - evaluate and accept risks + loose time. Active players who drive during travels should benefit from that, and I really like current way to motivate. Finally it will screw profession of pirate, simply speaking remove most of risks in EVE travels. And then we will have peaceful EVE without intrigue even in low sec, with lots of happy, not responding AFKs flying around :).
Edit: to be honest I liked instas even more compared with current situation. Because you needed to prepare a route, risk in permanent GC systems, put much more efforts to get ready for safer travels in new region. But what to do, technical limitations dictate their rules.
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Mika Draco
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Posted - 2007.09.30 11:45:00 -
[100]
I would support apwtz if you actually hit the gate and bounced off, your ship could be dammaged or even destroyed in the collision, or perhaps you angered the gate crew and they shot at you, or the faction ships guarding said gate started shooting at you. Fluffwise... if your attention was focussed on your ships navigation.. you could avoid said nasty accidents and save yourself the dammage and/or the npc pwning of your ship. I mean the lazy people are spouting fluff and logic for this, lets give it to them, but Eve style. I remember the lag bm's caused. You think Jita is bad now?? Try being in a fleet when someone just so happened to open their people and places. WTZ was a solution to the bookmark exploit! nothing more, nothing less, now... go PLAY the game!
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TimMc
Skiddies of Doom
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Posted - 2007.09.30 15:33:00 -
[101]
Originally by: fire 59 Nothing wrong with how it is right now. You want to travel faster, get your ass behind the wheel, no reward for the lazy
Exactly you damn carebears. Fly your ship so I can hear you smacktalk when we kill you. I haven't used AP since I started playing Eve.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
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Posted - 2007.09.30 21:02:00 -
[102]
What does using AP have to do with carebearism? I pvp afk (not that I survive that - but I do).
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TimMc
Skiddies of Doom
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Posted - 2007.09.30 23:04:00 -
[103]
Edited by: TimMc on 30/09/2007 23:04:34
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon What does using AP have to do with carebearism? I pvp afk (not that I survive that - but I do).
Carebears AP through empire, then do so in low sec because they are morons. I have never ever seen person who PvPs adeptly use AP, even over long distances. We are at war in empire, in danger in lowsec and sneaking in 0.0.
AP is a pointless feature, only useful if I had a 30 jump move to a new corp on the otherside of empire.
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Usagi Tsukino
Caldari APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.01 11:18:00 -
[104]
I support this idea, assuming we can put up 'dictor spheres or Mobile War Disruptors in lowsec. :)
Otherwise... NO!
APWTZ would eliminate almost all emipre PvP. Because without pirates there would be no anti-pirates. We'd be forced to grief mission runners or suicide in Jita. Blech.
What's next? You want to come out of cloak fully aligned and at 75% speed?! ---
Usagi Tsukino // Security Director APEX Unlimited // Public Channel: APEXCOM |
Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
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Posted - 2007.10.01 11:38:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 01/10/2007 11:43:23 Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 01/10/2007 11:39:51
Originally by: TimMc AP is a pointless feature, only useful if I had a 30 jump move to a new corp on the otherside of empire.
AP is the best feature ever. I pvp when I can play actively for over 15 minutes in a row, but that is very rare. But when I dont have that much spare time, I can jump to empire for a few months and still play thanks to autopilot and how market orders work (they don't need any atention for 3 months). Thats amazing feature and thats why I play Eve. There are hundreds MMORPGs when you can pvp and kill people. But there are very few when you can have so great AFK experience like in Eve. Seriously.
BTW, I'm against AP warp to 0, it would make my trips shorter and I'd be hanging on final gate for hours. CCP trying to force people to sit at the computer all the time by nerfing AFK tactics just makes a big mistake and looses tens of thousands of potential clients.
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J'Rela
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:06:00 -
[106]
Edited by: J''Rela on 23/10/2007 22:15:45 Edited by: J''Rela on 23/10/2007 22:14:54 In the beginning, there was no autopilot and no warp-to-zero.
There was a handy-dandy little skill called Navigation which reduced your warp-in distance. At its ultimate level, you dropped out almost on top of the gate, and could be almost immediately and safely in the next system.
But the pirates whined (as pirates are wont to do) and navigation now gives a speed boost.
Meanwhile, the lack of autopilot had reduced all EVE players to button-pushing monkeys. Warp to gate. Go toward gate. Jump at gate. Rinse. Repeat.
Noone wants to be a button-pushing monkey. Computers are good at removing tedium, we said, and so autopilot was born.
Then some wag noticed that jump entry always displaces a ship a fixed distance and direction from the bookmark. This poor design decision on CCP's part led to an irritating exploit and...well, you've had that history lesson. Long story short, now we have warp-to-zero.
I'll be honest. It's been a long damned time since I used autopilot. WTZ cuts travel time entirely too much. And so now I'm a button-pushing monkey again, the useful feature that I once agitated for tossed by the wayside because PvPs want to pwn n00bs.
WTZ simply doesn't make sense without APTZ. WTZ hasn't destroyed the game (it's only made me play button-pushing-monkey in safe space, and that only because I want to get places faster.) Like an autopilot that knew how to use an afterburner (or three) in the old days, it would just reduce tedium.
Tedium is bad. It's the opposite of fun, which is what games are supposed to be. It is our enemy, and must be destroyed whereever it can be found.
Now, that said, I'm against WTZ. I think it takes a lot of fun out of the game. The problems with any kind of bookmark-based instawarp are legion. I'd like to see a return of the navigation skill to its original function (or, since you'll insist, another skill that does what Navi used to) and a random entry displacement that would make warp-to-whatever (not zero) actually make sense.
But as long as warp-to-zero is our solution to instawarps, APTZ just makes sense and couldn't possibly hurt the game any more than WTZ already has.
---- If violence never solves anything, you're not using enough.
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:12:00 -
[107]
I vote against warp to 0 atopiloting. At least for low sec and 0.0 areas.
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Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:23:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Tom Deal Why does autopilots cant warp to 0 kms?
Simply because then you could not be gate camped as easily. Gate camping is a good thing. Now for playing the game actively you get rewarded by getting more secure transportation. The system is nearly perfect.
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Quad Xenie
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Posted - 2007.11.13 13:05:00 -
[109]
What we need is a way to eliminate the need to be a pushbutton-monkey in order to travel fast, without making it impossible for the pirates to prey on the complacent freighter captain. In other words AP travel should be just as fast as manual travel, but a lot riskier if you happen to go AFK while AP'ing
any suggestions?
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Plekto
Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:52:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Plekto on 13/11/2007 23:55:42 I was reading the first page again and a history was posted.
Personally I'd get rid of warp to 0 and return to the old brutal days.
With one change. When you drop out of warp, if the computer detects that you are closer than 10km to a gate, it acts as if you hit a solid object and you bounce. ie - you'd likely bounce several hundred KM as a penalty for trying to hack the system.
As it is, it's silly hard with normal lag to make fleet ops or much of anything work except for a bubble and hope you catch them coming into it.
Why? Because you can do the following: Set Autopilot. Warp to 0 to next gate. Turn ON autopilot while in warp. It warps to 0 and presto - insta-jump. Turn autopilot off after you see the "jumping" message and before you switch to the new system.
You end up cloaked at the other gate with your autopilot OFF.
Rinse, repeat. Nothing other than a bubble will stop you with anything smaller than a Cruiser. You're essentially able to completely avoid nearly all of the risk of traveling this way.
This is horribly broken.
1:Don't allow all bookmarks within 200km of a gate.(say, two "grids") 2:Remove warp to 0 for all gates and NPC stations(player owned should still be allowed) 3:Remove all options on a gate - "warp to" is the only option(internal - still says "warp to" in the interface) and it tries to place you at 15km. 4:Bounce players who arrive closer than say, 10km from a gate or NPC station at least 100km out as a penalty. That gives the autopilot a healthy leeway, IMO. And discourages people trying to hack the system.
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JeanLuc Rome
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:30:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Frug Yes. What is the roleplaying reason for this?
I invented this one...so it's not part of EVE...but here goes...
Computers are fast at processing things, but they are not AWARE. Even in the time of EVE, computers only got faster, they never achieved sentience...put one on the other end of a "blind" terminal, and after a few questions, a person can tell they are tlaking to a computer, not a person.
Warping isn't a science...it requires interaction...experiments were made with the fastest computers, attempting to achieve a "warp to 0km" result. And the good news is, they were 89% successful. The bad news is that it took a lot of scraping to recover the ships of the other 11% from on (and sometime IN) the stargates.
Success rate of 100% was only achieved when the limit was dropped to 15km.
You don't PLOT a warp...you FEEL your way there...computers don't feel.
Lol, you are funny. It would be interesting to see you outside your ship to "Feel" your warp. Unfortunately you are not right. With the right coordinates and a few equations, any computer as fast as a gameboy would tell you exactly were to stop your warp to achieve your objective. That's what we are achieving now with GPS technology and auto-pilot car networks in major cities.
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2007.11.23 06:19:00 -
[112]
I can't believe this one's back to the fore. Look, the game world gets smaller all the time. Goods, combat fleets, personnel, it all races around the galaxy at about a jump per minute if everyone's at the keyboard doing their job. Freighters are the exception here, but jump freighters are right around the corner. Between WTZ/instas and jump clones and jump drives, the "Largest game universe on Earth" is about the size of my back yard. Any dope with a finger can traverse the length and breadth of the galaxy in an afternoon.
Why not just have each starget ask you which system you'd like to travel to? I've actually suggested this in the past, to be honest. Replace the current web of systems with a "tree" configuration, so that each system is gated to the constelation's "capital", which in tern links to the regional capital, which is linked to the hub of each adjacent region. No trip would require more than eight or nine jumps and each region/constellation would have one chokepoint for the occupying faction to defend.
Obviously, the lag at regional capitals would cause more trouble than anyone can imagine, but the theory is not too bad. The presentation of EvE as a vast area is a lie. It's a massive timesink between key tactical and commercial centers. Eliminate the timesink and let us move conveniently from hub to hub and the game would be more streamlined and more honest with itself.
Crusades: Bounties & Security Status |
Cerina Natal
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Posted - 2007.11.23 08:28:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Frug Yes. What is the roleplaying reason for this?
I think I understand the gameplay balance reason, but not really. It makes low sec less safe I guess. But... But why?
Pirate: YAR so's I kin gank ye when yer stupid enough ta be APin' around in me 0.0 system. YAR!
Me: Fine I will sit and click a button.
It takes actual plysical skill to plot a course directely to the gate, and a calculation the jump computer is incapable of making on its own. Its not advanced enough.
Anyway i agree with the second part of your post.
I if people have a problem with this CCP should add a pasive module called "AP processor" decreesing the distance at which you would come out of warp at a gate. Give it a massive penalty like it takes longer to warp caus calculating the vectors to the gate is more complex. Warp speed reduced by 25% and decrese inertia by 25%, AP processor makes you come out of warp 500km closer to the gate.
And no this wouldnt work on freighters, nither do i think it should. Doing empire logistics should require some actual efford.
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Cerina Natal
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Posted - 2007.11.23 08:32:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Vanvittig Dyr Sry If this suggestion already is in the pile but what about an autopilot operation skill (AOS)? without skill you jump to 15 km and at V you jump to 5 km or 3 km (still giving the pirates, concorde, costums, turrits and game mechanics a chance)
.....
just my 2 cents
CCP did have such a skill while EVE was in the beta tested state, im quait sure they chose to remove it for some good reason, thought i cant quait figur why.
Anyway as stated in my last post, no AFK to 0km please....we dont want EVE to become a AFK game like SWG.
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Thunderbird Anthares
Crimson Star Empire FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:44:00 -
[115]
/rejected ------------------------------------------------ When you get to the end of your journey,everything that really matters is the journey itself. |
Amarr Holymight
Amarr deii feram Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.11.28 03:26:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Taedrin Warp-to-0, instas, and you...
There once was a time when there was no warp-to-0. This was a horrible time where people were forced to warp within 15 kilometers of a gate and fly within 2.5km of the gate before jumping and to start the process anew. This was the dark ages of pirates, where pilots were actually vulnerable when travelling. Pilots were unjustly forced to use higher-brain functions by looking at the map and plotting a safe course around potential gate camps. Pilots who lacked such higher-brain functions were left to die miserably to the gate camps.
One day, such a pilot suddenly had a stroke of uncharacteristic genius! In his frequently travelled systems, he could create bookmarks approximately 12-15km from the gate such that when he warped from one gate to the bookmark, he would land directly on top of it! Thus instas, and the great bookmark revolution began. Everyone began creating instas for their favorite systems. It was soon discovered that as the number of gates increased in a system, the number of instas that you need to complete the "set", so to speak, grew exponentially. Soon, an entire market sprang up out of nowhere, based upon the sale of large areas of instas!
This is when the glorious instas showed their dark side. With so many millions upon millions of instas in existence they slowly gave birth to a demon of pure lag. Tales are told of pilots who accidentally opened their people and places window and were forced to wait an eternity as the instas finished loading.
Meanwhile, people continued to use instas, and they became a integral part of EVE. Entire alliances kept sets of bookmarks for the regions of space they occupied. Escrow was filled with advertisements selling thousands upon thousands of bookmarks. Pirates and carebears a like would not be caught anywhere near low sec or 0.0 without a full set of instas.
As the problems continued, TQ slowly grinded to a halt. It was then that CCP decided that something must be done! They asked players for ideas. It was then that 4 mighty factions on the Features and Ideas forum formed. The WTZ faction, the Nuke Instas faction, the Starmaps faction, and the corporate bookmarks faction. Each faction waged bitter forum war against each other, deciding that their solution to the insta problem was correct. In general, the pirates favored the Nuke Instas option, while carebears favored the WTZ option. Those in the middle favored Starmaps or corporate bookmarks. After a long bloody war that left no soul unscathed, CCP decided that instas had become too important to remove. On top of this, Starmaps and corporate bookmarks would require too much code, and/or would not yield enough decrease in lag (though I still of the fervant opinion that Starmaps would've been much cooler, and still to this day disagree with Maya on this point). It was then that Warp To 0km was championed by CCP. A great treaty was signed by all of the forum warriors that Warp To 0km on Autopilot was a pandoras box that if opened, would end all concepts of danger from low sec and 0.0. Thus CCP did not allow Autopilot to utilize WTZ. Thus as CCP introduced WTZ, The Great Bookmark Massacre began, as millions upon millions of instas were mercilessly slaughtered.
And this brings us to today...
Most excellent post I must admit
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Mayobe
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Posted - 2007.12.14 05:19:00 -
[117]
This is the single argument that has bothered me most both in-game and browsing the forums. As far as 'balance' you may as well remove the AP. I feel that if there's an AP then it should work like an AP would IRL. That means wtz AP. As far as gankers, that whats dictors are for. I've been ganked while warping manually before. It just takes a little bit of thinking to accomplish. As far as allegations that wtz-ap is for lazy pilots, stop judging other people. It's pathetic and spiteful. If someone is traveling while afk then they deserve whatever they get, but ffs, if that's the problem then remove the AP rather than arguing nonstop about wtz.
And for the history buffs, truly sorry, but frankly nobody gives a ****.
Sorry if that's coming off a tad aggressive, but I'm just sick of hearing about this again and again and I feel that it ought to be resolved one way or the other. AP really isn't like a game-defining feature, IMO. I would not lose sleep if it were removed, but making the AP 'stupid' seems ridiculous to me. And no, I don't buy that a ship with a computer intelligent enough to handle the rigors of ftl travel (requiring dodging anything more threatening than a quark) can't figure out how to warp closer than 15km to a gate.
BAh. Forget I said anything. I'm just ranting.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.12.14 05:57:00 -
[118]
I personally believe that WTZ should work in auto pilot if your corp/alliance has sovereignty over that system.
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Basjon Sepi
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Posted - 2007.12.19 12:36:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Basjon Sepi on 19/12/2007 12:41:24 Edited by: Basjon Sepi on 19/12/2007 12:40:41
Originally by: pshepherd warp to 0 is a replacement for instas. It was never intended to be anything else.
wow... someone whos been playing since then...
I dont feel so old now. I thought I was the only remaining closed beta tester or something
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.12.19 15:55:00 -
[120]
Gameplay issues, rewarding people not being AFK while travelling.
In short, never.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
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