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When 0 km Autopilot ???

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Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.27 01:50:00 - [61] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane there is no RP reason why AP cant warp to 0km, at least none I could come up. Maybe the ap is just unable to process the massive datastream of a moving and expanding universe as fast as a pod pilot's augmented brain can. or because of the pink bunny! its more realistic to approach a gate or hangar instead of warping direct into it... could give problems to stop your ship! to not crash into it with 1 au? my view is: concord simple does not allow it, that you crash each gate on autopilot, if you do it manually, you can pay (manually) for the damage.
Drethon Gallente Knights Hospitalier Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:25:00 - [62] Allow the option for AP WTZ but when WTZ is active, the AP deactivates before a gate jump and must be reactivated due to interference or whatever. My biggest complaint with WTZ is the massive lag I get whenever I enter a system, if I activate AP to jump though gate then it automatically WTZs me to the next gate and waits for me to reactivate would work pretty nice. Not that I really need this.
CmdrThor	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:12:00 - [63] Originally by: Nim9i5 you miss the point, you can still get rid of instas and make it 15km out of jump range. Just make it so no bookmarks can be made in the 15km range. But then people would just make BMs around 30km away from the gate and then just click warp-to-30km. Or make one 70km away and warp to 70 from it. For your solution to work you'd have to make it so BMs can't be made within 115km from a stargate/station and I'm not sure THAT would be a better solution than the current one. And apart from that, I like WTZ anyway.
Aranthus	Posted - 2007.04.04 14:59:00 - [64] I am apalled to discover that there is one thing which is almost completely absent from this discussion. This thing is randomness. Quantum mechanics tells us that the nature of our physical universe, and I suspsect, the EVE universe as well, is probabilistic rather than deterministic. You want to warp to some point in space? Fine, but you will not land exactly at that point, but rather at some point around it, determined randomly according to some probability distribution. Some have tried to justify the 15km distance of AP RP-wise, by saying that AP is less accurate than manual flight, and thus must take some safety distance to avoid crashing into a gate. This is plausible. But the truth of the matter is (AFAIK) that, in this game, there is no inaccuracy for the autopilot! If it travels to some gate, it will "unwarp" exactly at a point 15km before it, and not one meter away from that point! If it can so easily pop up at a deterministic point, the one 15km before the gate, it can just as well decide to pop up 10km before it. Or 5, or even 1km - and there is no risk of colliding with the gate. So, as things currently stand, there is no RP reason for 15km AP. But this gives us an idea which is physically sensible and gameplay-wise acceptible. Think back to the time before instas (note: I was not playing EVE at that time). We will ignore the negligible probability of colliding with the gate, but change the game so that neither man nor machine can warp to an exact point (try driving 3000 times the speed of light and being accurate to the meter in where you stop). Instead, AP can only warp to a random point up to 15km away from a target, and manual pilot, being more accurate, can have an accuracy of 3km (or some other numbers, and perhaps 15 for manual as well). Instas cannot help in these circumstances, since the destination point is chosen randomly. So this allows for slow automatic travel, (optional) fast manual travel, no incentive for creating cumbersome instas, and a perfect physical foundation. It is possible that these ideas have been discussed in the past. It is possible that there are some serious gameplay problems with them, which I, due to lack of experience, have not spotted. I would like to hear about them. But I think this deserves at least a mention, and an explanation.
Mynez	Posted - 2007.04.06 21:31:00 - [65] Edited by: Mynez on 06/04/2007 21:27:50 Originally by: Nim9i5 So you want to waste people's time by pressing a button. Its what makes people unattracted to the game. Either have no warping to 0 on gates, or have autopilots warp to zero. It makes no sense that you make someone click a button for a function. STRATEGY IS NOT ABOUT CLICKING BUTTONS ;). Lets please keep that to a minimum, its what makes a good game. If you want clicky-clicky go play call of duty or something. Actually the people "pressing a button" are saving time by putting more effort into it, not wasting it. Who said it was anything about strategy? It's giving people the option to save time at the expense of a few clicks a minute. Hardly "clicky-clicky". Name an MMO where you don't click at least a couple of times a minute. As or your definition of a good game, most "good games" that I've played reward the player who puts the most into his/her game, not less which is what you are advocating. Congratulations on missing the point yet again in this thread. I'm sure glad that CCP think totally the opposite.
Kara Mori Finis Lumen	Posted - 2007.04.06 21:45:00 - [66] Edited by: Kara Mori on 06/04/2007 21:42:35 There can always be an RP reason for everything in the fantastic world. Why is this? Because it's fictional, so basically, whatever the creator says goes. Let's just say that the auto-pilot has a non-manipulable fail safe set at 15 km. This could be from interference that the gate generates because of the imense amount of power used to jump people to entire other systems lightyears away in an instant. Besides, think about it, whenever you do warp to 0, it's very inaccurate suggesting that you had to put in the coordinates yourself (sometimes you get within 500m of the gate, sometimes just under 2.5km from the gate). Not that hard to believe. So quit being lazy and wanting to do all your hauling runs in a freighter in under an hour
Surana Koburo	Posted - 2007.04.08 14:45:00 - [67] Originally by: Mynez Edited by: Mynez on 06/04/2007 21:27:50 Actually the people "pressing a button" are saving time by putting more effort into it, not wasting it. Who said it was anything about strategy? It's giving people the option to save time at the expense of a few clicks a minute. Hardly "clicky-clicky". Name an MMO where you don't click at least a couple of times a minute. As or your definition of a good game, most "good games" that I've played reward the player who puts the most into his/her game, not less which is what you are advocating. Congratulations on missing the point yet again in this thread. I'm sure glad that CCP think totally the opposite. The problem with this is the same as the problems in other MMORGS, Running through safe areas is boring and people wind up staying in a smaller area and wind up getting bored with the game because exploring even the safe areas is mind numbing. I don't want to take away the AFK consequences of low sec, I just don't want to have to take an hour of just click jump - click wtz over and over again through somewhere that there is absolutely no reason to watch the screen. This is why I propose a warp target enhancer that can be placed somewhere and include the random warp distance proposed by someone else on this topic. Basically, Concord keeps warp target enhancers in place anywhere they are, so warping to a jump gate with lots of concord (high sec) would have an enhancer available and you would WTZ effectively. Pirates in lower sec could destroy the enhancer (which would respawn at a rate determined by the sec rating .4 every 10 min no auto enhancer in 0.0) and people would wind up at various distances from the distances from the gate ready for pirating. This has the effect of making low sec travel even more dangerous and high sec travel quick and efficient. Makes people want to explore more, (I can AFK through high sec space in about a quarter of the time it takes now), and makes the game more interesting. You say, Good games are ones that reward players who put the most into his/her game, I agree with that, but if you made a game where the number of times you click in an hour determines how well you do, it wouldn't last very long even though the person doing the clicking is putting more into the game. That said, it is true that making it easier to travel, even through high sec space will change the economy slightly, I.E. if it's fairly easy to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, the price differentials will be smaller, there is a tradeoff that will need to be taken into account on real world economics, if you spend all your time in a 10 system area because it takes too long/too boring to go much farther than that you are going to get bored with the game sooner than if you have a 30 system area that is accessible without it being too boring. Warp enhancers would add a new dimension to the game and give players the chance to make it more interesting which would attract and keep more players, which is what everyone really wnats.
Tricotomy Celine A Cunning Plan	Posted - 2007.04.09 11:04:00 - [68] In a bestower with cargo expanders it took around 30 minutes to go 4 or 5 jumps on AP. What a complete waste of time. I hardly ever AP. CCP either needs to get rid of AP warp to 15km, (either 0 or 5km) or get rid of AP. The way it is now it's utterly f****** pointless.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.09 11:25:00 - [69] Originally by: Tricotomy Celine In a bestower with cargo expanders it took around 30 minutes to go 4 or 5 jumps on AP. What a complete waste of time. I hardly ever AP. CCP either needs to get rid of AP warp to 15km, (either 0 or 5km) or get rid of AP. The way it is now it's utterly f****** pointless. Lmao what if i tell you that there was time w/o WTZ, only instas ? They gave ppl a finger and ppl want whole hand :\| --- "You are receiving this notice in regard to the post below which appeared in our forum on 06/04/2007 22:16:31. Personal attacks (commonly referred to as flames) are not permitted on the forum."
Sarigot Thade	Posted - 2007.04.09 12:39:00 - [70] Edited by: Sarigot Thade on 09/04/2007 12:41:18 Simply put, ATZ would hurt the economy. Everyone and their mom would have a freighter alt farming market highs and lows, regardless of security systems. Just as mining bots are outside the spirit of the game, afk low sec shipping (without risk) is outside the spirit of the game. ------------------------------------------------

Wander Lost	Posted - 2007.04.10 13:26:00 - [71] There are two forms of travel i know of... 1. Autopilot - When I'm going though safe space, I can go grab a bite to eat, no biggie. 2. Manually Pilot to 0m and Warp - CUZ YOU'RE IN 0.0 SEC DUMMY - PAY ATTENTION. NVM, In fact - i say CCP put autopilot to 0m in the game so you can warp right into a gate camp with an already deployed jammer. Have fun.
Reykik	Posted - 2007.04.26 15:03:00 - [72] Just make it so that in 0.5 and higher you can WTZ and in lower space you end up 15km out. That can even be justified RP-wise by the authorities keeping the gates clear of debris and such, or there are better maps, allowing you to come out of warp closer. Plowing through safe space is so. damn. boring.!!!
Trovax Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.26 15:43:00 - [73] I read some of this post but not all of it so if what im about to say has already been mentioned i appologise but..... IF CCP were to allow WTZ AP, it would open up a world of oppertunity for MACROER's!! 0.0 mining would be made a little easier for starters. Someone posted 'Make it so you have to reactivate AP after each jump'.... Easily delt with using a macro. If WTZ AP was enabled, then the rate at which macroer's make isk would surley rise and encourage more peeps to do it. anyways.... "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"
Ishma Nelass	Posted - 2007.04.26 16:58:00 - [74] I'm no proponent od AP to 0, frankly I wouldn't mind WTZ removed for something like the random solution proposed earlier, otherwise, what's the point of blockade runners? But the idea that macroers will use AP to 0 is a poor argument, macroers can make an effective AP to 0 anyway. Just requires a little code. To be honest I'm not convinced there is any way to restrict macro use, other than turing-testing every single player that is active online more than a few minutes...
Lothros Andastar Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:40:00 - [75] Now im sure that this must have been mentioned before but there is a very simple reason why there is no WTZAP. WTZAP would make the game EvE Offline :P Anyway, if your going through Lowsec or Nullsec dont be a lazy sob and do it yourself :P
Radgun Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:03:00 - [76] WTZ ftw Lesson CCP learnt: Travelling is NOT fun, shooting IS but autopilot to 0? that would be too weird man, not to mention intolerable nerfing of pirates, who already got nerfed by WTZ, although it was inevitable
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:34:00 - [77] You can sorta simulate WTZ autopilot with an MWD and a penny. Stick the MWD in one of the F# slots and just jam a penny behind the key to keep it depressed. Bit annoying if you have the sound on but it'll kick on the MWD for every gate without breaking any macro rules. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Azirapheal Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:51:00 - [78] just as an aside, i find it remarkable that anything can warp to within a couple thousand metres of anything. 100,000,000 tonne ship +speed of 3+au/s and stopping it 42.0989047389579827au away from where you were within a 0,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 error = a bloody miracle. wish they just stopped bms from being able to be made near stations and gates either that or nerf local - i used to jump into systems i knew had miners and warp to the station ahead to try and catch them. :( Hango touched me in the night! I also stole all of your socks.
Azirapheal Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:51:00 - [79] Edited by: Azirapheal on 29/05/2007 16:51:09 Edited by: Azirapheal on 29/05/2007 16:50:59 double post grumble grumble bloody internets Hango touched me in the night! I also stole all of your socks.
Radgun Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:56:00 - [80] Originally by: Azirapheal 0,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 error = a bloody miracle. Yeah man, I know what you mean, but it's not supposed to be realistic How is it realistic to stop that close to an objective with little effort but takes teraflops of processing power to fire a gun at something

Azirapheal Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.03 23:01:00 - [81] from an rp viewpoint - you can see the logic there, your stoppinga ship that WAS travelling in excess of the speed of light, witha mass in the millions... right on the gate. howabouts just removing bookmarks from the game entirely adn restoring things to how they were? would stop pirates from ninja shopping aswell Originally by: CCP Wrangler you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.04 03:53:00 - [82] Nah, pirates can use alts to shop. What would improve EvE is if everyone just played fair. No macromining, no eBay, no logoffski, no newb alts or afk cloak alts or mining alts, no suicide ganking, just a world with one character per player where everyone's got to earn their way. If EvE was like that, well, then the first guy to start playing dirty would be a king, then a god, then everyone else would start playing dirty and we'd be right back where we are. Alas.
LordGodKingBufu	Posted - 2007.06.04 15:16:00 - [83] Edited by: LordGodKingBufu on 04/06/2007 15:15:42 If you want 0km A.P you may aswell just have a progress bar that carries on after preparing ship / undocking / warping / jumping / warping / jumping / warping / jumping / warping / jumping / warping / jumping / docking. Cool game P.S in answer to the Q. NEVER
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.04 15:59:00 - [84] I would like the ap distance shortened a little bit though. Mebbe a 10km ap. I kind of miss the days of being able to walk away during those 20 jumps or so through highsec it takes to get to my agents. 10k also is a better option because it makes it harder for the gatecampers to know if you are on ap or not. Then you can bait them by warping to 10, and letting them think that your on ap. Make Mining Better
Torothanax	Posted - 2007.07.13 22:03:00 - [85] Gotta say NO to this one. If you wanna afk pilot, it's gonna take you longer to get where you're going. Call it a safey precaution. A Pilot can warp to zero, the nav computer has to warp in at 15km.
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.13 23:56:00 - [86] AP= tool for afk traveling. WTZ = tool for FAST traveling when you are AT the computer. combining them = isk farmer's heaven. all they now have to do is macro/farm tons of courier mish on many acount with 1 operator. remember, cant let the farmers win!!!! and yeah, OP, drop it already.... if you are really playing eve, it shouldnt bug you that much. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
TimMc The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.07.14 01:02:00 - [87] Edited by: TimMc on 14/07/2007 01:02:01 Wow this thread is basically Carebears vs Low Sec Lovers... And I have to say the carebears who want WTZ on AP are all stupid, lazy and need to get slapped hard for wanting such a boring game. Seriously, where would the challenge be?
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2007.07.14 01:40:00 - [88] Originally by: Petrothian Tong and yeah, OP, drop it already.... if you are really playing eve, it shouldnt bug you that much. OP posted in february. Don't blame him for someone else necroing it. Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Veeana Vesperi	Posted - 2007.07.24 06:37:00 - [89] Edited by: Veeana Vesperi on 24/07/2007 06:39:56 Edited by: Veeana Vesperi on 24/07/2007 06:39:14 how about instead of focusing on fighting over 0km jumping w/ AP vs 15km jumping w/ AP we instead figure out a way to help the devs implement something that is a decent compromise. we're all gamers, and we know what we like and we know the other side's arguments. I've read every other forum post through this thread and i can say I've read enough to know what the last 15 days to a month has brought us gamers... Flaming each other. that is all really. Argue over reasons for Role playing vs game play balance, bah! it is all rhetorical and just semantics. Many of us are programmers or have hobbies related ourselves. the other ones of us are very very capable beta testers, and other newer or less adept can lend a hand with telling us where we don't realize what makes it NOT work for the newbies. I know its easy, sometimes even fun to debate the existence / non-existence of this, but we haven't really been talking about a solution versus the problem. there is always a compromise that can be reached to please everyone, but finding it is the real work. I vote for dwelling on the solution and not the problem anymore. ^^ - /signed
Acacia Everto State War Academy	Posted - 2007.07.24 18:04:00 - [90] Originally by: Veeana Vesperi Edited by: Veeana Vesperi on 24/07/2007 06:39:56 Edited by: Veeana Vesperi on 24/07/2007 06:39:14 how about instead of focusing on fighting over 0km jumping w/ AP vs 15km jumping w/ AP we instead figure out a way to help the devs implement something that is a decent compromise. <snip> It's already decent the way it is. If you don't want to get ganked in lowsec, then just stay at your computer and use your intelligence (and WTZ).



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