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Tibrius Archer
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.14 15:59:00 -
[1]
It is not a good ship. Its drone bay means you are risking a lot using heavys as any non brain dead PvPer will take out those drones in 1v1 fight. If you use medium drones then your damage drops but atleast your wearing a condom.
My main whine is, the fact it has no medium hybrid turret bonus is why people think its so good.
Basically it encourages two things:
1: NOS.
2: SMALL GUNS.(underclass guns)
These are the two areas where eve as a whole is broken. Any ship can be good by fitting NOS to it and smaller class guns.
I think NOSing amounts are prehaps only just balanced I think NOS overall is balanced because its range is not great in criuser class espcially. Problem is NOS is handly coupled with a MWD meaning NOS ship have no range constraints and don't really feel the -25% cap bonus of MWD due to the fact they're stealing their cap. Myrm uses this to be good. ANY ship with lots of NOS and MWD will dominate in PvP particulary against the Amarr.(note to devs have it so NOS and MWD cannot be used together) Next thing about Myrm:
2: Small guns. Ships in genral are too good with small guns I don't use it because I feel dirty I play for a feel good feeling not to basically hack a game. 1600mm Plate thoraxs with small blasters....... the game has whole historys of small gun grid saving allowing for oversized tanks these ships always tend to do well. Normally the ship would have been designed around its correct class of gun and nerfed slot wise for there expected DPS, but the myrm is compensated for the loss of 5% gun bonus with tons of slot fitting versitity than if they where fitted with there correct class of gun making it turbo deadly with small guns.
In short. Mrym is a exploit ship. Encouraged to do so. If NOS worked and the gun class system was effective the mrym would and should be a pile of **** at best a EW ship.
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"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Galen Silas
Gallente
Mean Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:01:00 -
[2]
Wow, obviously you have not fought anyone who knows what there doing with the myrm. Other than that your really angry at getting blown up by one. 
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DiuxDium
Casting Shadows
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:04:00 -
[3]
You should hide your alliance ticker when posting stuff like this.
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Norvys Kerens
Gallente
Terror Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:04:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Galen Silas
Wow, obviously you have not fought anyone who knows what there doing with the myrm.
QFT
The Myrmidon is a superb ship. medium blasters, heavy drones it just tears other ships to pieces, it's awesome. Yeah people can fit NOS on it, but I don't understand why they would based upon my personal experience in this ship.
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ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:07:00 -
[5]
ditto, medium blasters or autocannons on a myrmidon for the win. I've seen someone using lasers on his myrmidon...a sight I hope I never witness again.
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Kulmid
Bringers of Misfortune
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Norvys Kerens
Originally by: Galen Silas
Wow, obviously you have not fought anyone who knows what there doing with the myrm.
QFT
The Myrmidon is a superb ship. medium blasters, heavy drones it just tears other ships to pieces, it's awesome. Yeah people can fit NOS on it, but I don't understand why they would based upon my personal experience in this ship.
So uh... did you read the OP?
He was talking about nos and small guns on the Myrm and medium drones were mentioned in there too, and you are now flaming someone for saying that's not a good way of fitting it then:
Originally by: Norvys Kerens
medium blasters, heavy drones
You agree that small blaster, nos and med drones, is not a way to go, but you also flamed someone for saying the same thing?
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Susan Acid
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:13:00 -
[7]
It can use EW,Nos,fit a reasonably good tank and has a very nice bonus for Drones.If you have good Drone skills and BC 5 it's a perfectly good ship.If you're in a 1v1 and your Drones are targeted just keep pulling them in and out of the Drone Bay while you suck your opponents cap dry.It's a Drone boat not a Rail or Blaster platform.
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DiuxDium
Casting Shadows
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Susan Acid
It can use EW,Nos,fit a reasonably good tank and has a very nice bonus for Drones.If you have good Drone skills and BC 5 it's a perfectly good ship.If you're in a 1v1 and your Drones are targeted just keep pulling them in and out of the Drone Bay while you suck your opponents cap dry.It's a Drone boat not a Rail or Blaster platform.
2x mar, eanm, active explo, dcu ii is more than just a "reasonably good tank"
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MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tibrius Archer
It is not a good ship.
...
In short. Mrym is a exploit ship.
How can both of these be true? Especially since nothing you mentioned is an exploit. Who puts smalls on an Myr setup?
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell |
Dread Phantom
Caldari
Project-Chaos
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:25:00 -
[10]
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Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.14 16:29:00 -
[11]
Honestly.. the price of the myrm is really close to the domi. I see no compelling reason to fly a myrm over a domi.
Also, battleship 5 has more uses than battlecruiser 5..
/shrug
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Samirol
Blood Sweat and Tears
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Posted - 2007.02.14 17:14:00 -
[12]
6 heavy electron IIs
10mn ab/mwd, web, scram, injector, whatever
2 mar II, rest whatever, 1600mm plate/whatever
if you want the 1600 plate, you use an ab, if not, use a mwd
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DarkElf
Caldari
Veto. Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.14 17:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: DarkElf on 14/02/2007 17:18:42
Originally by: DiuxDium
You should hide your alliance ticker when posting stuff like this.
i have to agree.
wtf are u using small blasters for for a start?
and yes the ship has weaknesses but in the right pilots hand it is a very nice solo ship especially.
edit: from further reading i'm simply confused. are u saying ppl should fit small blasters because it makes it good or the ship isn't good or it's rubbish with nos  ???
DE
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.02.14 17:27:00 -
[14]
Smaller guns? You smokin something?
Only time I heard that smaller guns on a larger ship was effective was a platerax before hte plate changes and on ravens to take out small ships.
Otherwise, useless.
----------------------------------------
Friends Forever
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Jarjar
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.14 17:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tunajuice
Also, battleship 5 has more uses than battlecruiser 5..
Nah, Command Ships are nice. 
"This was not a fight it was simply a pathetic gank." - Ginger Magician |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.14 17:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 14/02/2007 17:24:21
Just fit some damps and keep scooping and releasing your drones and it'll borderline exploit its way to 1v1 victory pretty much everytime! :P
Ishtar and Domi are worse for that though.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.14 17:34:00 -
[17]
How can a ship that cank tank over 1000dps as a shield tank in PvE while being cheap not be classed as good? Its a carebares dream ship if they like drones.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
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Posted - 2007.02.14 17:50:00 -
[18]
/agree with welsh wizard (nice sig BTW), sensor damps, blasters, drones. Scoop the drones when they take damage and pop them back out, it'll take anything above a frig forever to re-lock, and a frigate or AF will be dead in seconds anyway.
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Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.14 17:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: Tunajuice
Also, battleship 5 has more uses than battlecruiser 5..
Nah, Command Ships are nice.
They are NICE, but battleship 5 helps in fleet sniping, and leads to carrier or dread. The furtherest you can ever get with BC5 is command ships.. which are cool, but not necessarily better than a simple BS.
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ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:01:00 -
[20]
gotta comment that if tech 2 battleships ever come out you will probably have to have both Battleship and Battlecruiser 5
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Tibrius Archer
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: DarkElf
Edited by: DarkElf on 14/02/2007 17:18:42
Originally by: DiuxDium
You should hide your alliance ticker when posting stuff like this.
i have to agree.
wtf are u using small blasters for for a start?
and yes the ship has weaknesses but in the right pilots hand it is a very nice solo ship especially.
edit: from further reading i'm simply confused. are u saying ppl should fit small blasters because it makes it good or the ship isn't good or it's rubbish with nos ???
DE
Okay, never said I use small guns on one. Never even said I have flown one if I wanted a mrym setup I would just do it on a dominx for like 10m more and get a much safer dronebay and a bigger cap, I fail to see how it can be better than a domi in 90% of situations. I am trying to highlight the fine points and problems of the game to people. This thread can easily be reinturprited for the Domonix too.
Basically Myrm works really well not becaue its a 'good' ship as some people imagine it. It takes advantage the good safe things in the game. (e.g cap free minmatar auto cannns like someone pointed out above, great? With that drone bonus to kick up overall damge you now have a high damaging ship that can varry damage types and has DPS that does not depend on being NOSed GREAT!. Now show me how this is fair if you picked amarr where cap is your life....)
For example when people refere to say the Domi as being a good ship people are not really refering to the hybrid domi setup we should assume given its bonus', but rather to some sort of nano or Nos setup. It works, fair enough, I think it should work eve should have variation and suprise but it stinks when 90% of Domis have this setup because it works that much better than hybrid domi's. I just don't think that NOS and small-gun setups should work A LOT better than the bonus giving intended hybrid setups.
Reason I pick on the myrm is because without its 5% hybrid bonus it is a nod towards this idea of counter racial-bonus-intention setups being vastly greater than the racial expected. I did not think the day would come when a combat geared gallante ship would not have a 5% bonus.
Someone wrote myrm don't use small guns Oh please! I have seen loads of myrms with small guns to save grid for s***t loads of NOS/Neuts with injectors and a big fat 1600mm plate.
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"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:32:00 -
[22]
Let's compare how the Dominix stacks up against the Mega, which is a gunship.
It has 2 less highslots, 1 more mid, same lows. It has less powergrid so it can't really fit guns larger than electrons.
Now the Myrmidon has 1 less highslot than the Brutix, 1 more low, 1 more mid, it has _MORE_ powergrid than the brutix. Which just screams for a medium gun fitting in my opinion.
The myrmidon in my opinion is a combination gunship/droneship, because of its limited dronebay you shouldn't consider it a pure droneship. There have been several cases where I have been able to win fights with multiple smaller ships even when they were able to kill all my drones because I fit a full rack of heavy ions.
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Yunii
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:32:00 -
[23]
Its not your typcial Gallente turret/baster boat no. If you have the nessesary skills to take advantage of what the Myrm does offer it's one hell've tough fight 1v1/BC vs BC. And yeah if they target your drone(s), recall them and send them back out..
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Tibrius Archer
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 14/02/2007 17:24:21
Just fit some damps and keep scooping and releasing your drones and it'll borderline exploit its way to 1v1 victory pretty much everytime! :P
Ishtar and Domi are worse for that though.
Ishtar is bad too lol. This guy red my post and understood the points. Noticed many brain dead flames above the kind that don't bother me as the people making them are jarg anyhow.
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"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Tibrius Archer
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:50:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 14/02/2007 18:49:16
Originally by: ForeverKnight
Let's compare how the Dominix stacks up against the Mega, which is a gunship.
It has 2 less highslots, 1 more mid, same lows. It has less powergrid so it can't really fit guns larger than electrons.
Now the Myrmidon has 1 less highslot than the Brutix, 1 more low, 1 more mid, it has _MORE_ powergrid than the brutix. Which just screams for a medium gun fitting in my opinion.
The myrmidon in my opinion is a combination gunship/droneship, because of its limited dronebay you shouldn't consider it a pure droneship. There have been several cases where I have been able to win fights with multiple smaller ships even when they were able to kill all my drones because I fit a full rack of heavy ions.
Yeah I see your point. With no bonus though why not save all that grid and CPU used on medium guns for a big plate and a injector and some fat tanking?
A light Neutron cannon does 85.7% the damage of a medium Electron gun, Ions only do 5% more than a eletron of the same class. All that grid and CPU used to fit Ions could have fitted Light neutrons and you would not have been loosing out as the myrm has no 5% medium hybrid bonus, eh? With 1 magstab II you could have made back the 20% dps loss of using small neutrons.
The result would be a setup that used less cap had greater tracking and problaby a 70%+ pg saving and loads of CPU saving all for the cost of a low slot.... my point stands.
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"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Aterna
Minmatar
M'8'S
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:52:00 -
[26]
I don't see why anyone would ever fit undersized guns on the Myrmidon. It has plenty of powergrid to fit medium guns. I think what you meant to say in your OP is that it encourages using Projectiles instead of Hybrid weapons, as they have lower fitting, somewhat less dps, and no cap use. While using small guns on it saves a huge amount of grid, there's almost no way to use all of that grid, unless the setup calls for multiple 1600 plates. Which there isn't any reason for, as 1 cripples the ship's mobility and adds about 50% more armor to the ship.
A lot of people advocate autocannons, because while they are not in the same league as a rack of blasters, they deal out quality damage while allowing the pilot to dedicate his entire capacitor towards tanking. Also, the higher falloff allows the pilot to start shooting sooner, say at 10km or 12km vs 5km for blasters.
Most drone users know to rescoop the things once they start getting damage, and since you intend to be up in their face with your ship, it shouldn't be hard to scoop up the drone before it gets popped.
All of this does not mean the Myrmidon is not a good ship. It means that it is an incredibly versatile ship, that can fit a large variety of setups, making it hard to predict if people would use something besides the standard six nos and whee! setups seen so commonly.
What makes this ship, and really all drone ships, somewhat broken, is the dronebay mechanic. It can be difficult to master, and takes some micromanagement, but if pulled off correctly, makes countering the ship hard, if not borderline impossible.
Expect NOS to get fixed soon, expect the nano fad to get killed, but the drone bay mechanic will probably stay until drones themselves get another much needed overhaul.
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Tibrius Archer
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 14/02/2007 18:54:33
*****************************************
"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:55:00 -
[28]
Because if I wanted something that moved like a battleship I'd have gotten a dominix for 15 mil more. Come to think of it I do have one for larger engagements. The Myrmidon is when you need the speed of a cruiser with the gank of a battleship. Small gang and 1 on 1 engagements. There you need to move fast and drop targets quick, which is where the med blasters come into play. Yeah a big fat tank is nice but I'd rather have a dominix with a big fat tank instead of a myrmidon with a big fat tank, especially since the dominix can fit spare drones.
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.14 18:55:00 -
[29]
5 med slots, you can fit atleast 1 damper which protects your drones pretty well in a 1v1 i find.
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ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
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Posted - 2007.02.14 19:13:00 -
[30]
To all that: because with my skills I can comfortably fit a full Tech 2 dual repper tank with a full rack of med ion blasters (Tech II) so why would I use anything smaller? All of that PG would go to waste. Also I hit just fine on cruisers when they are webbed with medium blasters using Void (skills again). Hell sometimes in gangs I fit a dual web setup and can even hit interceptors for full damage using Void.
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