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Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 15:59:00 - [1] It is not a good ship. Its drone bay means you are risking a lot using heavys as any non brain dead PvPer will take out those drones in 1v1 fight. If you use medium drones then your damage drops but atleast your wearing a condom. My main whine is, the fact it has no medium hybrid turret bonus is why people think its so good. Basically it encourages two things: 1: NOS. 2: SMALL GUNS.(underclass guns) These are the two areas where eve as a whole is broken. Any ship can be good by fitting NOS to it and smaller class guns. I think NOSing amounts are prehaps only just balanced I think NOS overall is balanced because its range is not great in criuser class espcially. Problem is NOS is handly coupled with a MWD meaning NOS ship have no range constraints and don't really feel the -25% cap bonus of MWD due to the fact they're stealing their cap. Myrm uses this to be good. ANY ship with lots of NOS and MWD will dominate in PvP particulary against the Amarr.(note to devs have it so NOS and MWD cannot be used together) Next thing about Myrm: 2: Small guns. Ships in genral are too good with small guns I don't use it because I feel dirty I play for a feel good feeling not to basically hack a game. 1600mm Plate thoraxs with small blasters....... the game has whole historys of small gun grid saving allowing for oversized tanks these ships always tend to do well. Normally the ship would have been designed around its correct class of gun and nerfed slot wise for there expected DPS, but the myrm is compensated for the loss of 5% gun bonus with tons of slot fitting versitity than if they where fitted with there correct class of gun making it turbo deadly with small guns. In short. Mrym is a exploit ship. Encouraged to do so. If NOS worked and the gun class system was effective the mrym would and should be a pile of ** at best a EW ship. *************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Galen Silas Gallente Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:01:00 - [2] Wow, obviously you have not fought anyone who knows what there doing with the myrm. Other than that your really angry at getting blown up by one.
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:04:00 - [3] You should hide your alliance ticker when posting stuff like this.
Norvys Kerens Gallente Terror Knights	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Galen Silas Wow, obviously you have not fought anyone who knows what there doing with the myrm. QFT The Myrmidon is a superb ship. medium blasters, heavy drones it just tears other ships to pieces, it's awesome. Yeah people can fit NOS on it, but I don't understand why they would based upon my personal experience in this ship.
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:07:00 - [5] ditto, medium blasters or autocannons on a myrmidon for the win. I've seen someone using lasers on his myrmidon...a sight I hope I never witness again.
Kulmid Bringers of Misfortune	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Norvys Kerens Originally by: Galen Silas Wow, obviously you have not fought anyone who knows what there doing with the myrm. QFT The Myrmidon is a superb ship. medium blasters, heavy drones it just tears other ships to pieces, it's awesome. Yeah people can fit NOS on it, but I don't understand why they would based upon my personal experience in this ship. So uh... did you read the OP? He was talking about nos and small guns on the Myrm and medium drones were mentioned in there too, and you are now flaming someone for saying that's not a good way of fitting it then: Originally by: Norvys Kerens medium blasters, heavy drones You agree that small blaster, nos and med drones, is not a way to go, but you also flamed someone for saying the same thing?
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:13:00 - [7] It can use EW,Nos,fit a reasonably good tank and has a very nice bonus for Drones.If you have good Drone skills and BC 5 it's a perfectly good ship.If you're in a 1v1 and your Drones are targeted just keep pulling them in and out of the Drone Bay while you suck your opponents cap dry.It's a Drone boat not a Rail or Blaster platform.
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Susan Acid It can use EW,Nos,fit a reasonably good tank and has a very nice bonus for Drones.If you have good Drone skills and BC 5 it's a perfectly good ship.If you're in a 1v1 and your Drones are targeted just keep pulling them in and out of the Drone Bay while you suck your opponents cap dry.It's a Drone boat not a Rail or Blaster platform. 2x mar, eanm, active explo, dcu ii is more than just a "reasonably good tank"
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Tibrius Archer It is not a good ship. ... In short. Mrym is a exploit ship. How can both of these be true? Especially since nothing you mentioned is an exploit. Who puts smalls on an Myr setup? Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Dread Phantom Caldari Project-Chaos	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:25:00 - [10]
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:29:00 - [11] Honestly.. the price of the myrm is really close to the domi. I see no compelling reason to fly a myrm over a domi. Also, battleship 5 has more uses than battlecruiser 5.. /shrug
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:14:00 - [12] 6 heavy electron IIs 10mn ab/mwd, web, scram, injector, whatever 2 mar II, rest whatever, 1600mm plate/whatever if you want the 1600 plate, you use an ab, if not, use a mwd
DarkElf Caldari Veto. Academy	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:19:00 - [13] Edited by: DarkElf on 14/02/2007 17:18:42 Originally by: DiuxDium You should hide your alliance ticker when posting stuff like this. i have to agree. wtf are u using small blasters for for a start? and yes the ship has weaknesses but in the right pilots hand it is a very nice solo ship especially. edit: from further reading i'm simply confused. are u saying ppl should fit small blasters because it makes it good or the ship isn't good or it's rubbish with nos ??? DE
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:27:00 - [14] Smaller guns? You smokin something? Only time I heard that smaller guns on a larger ship was effective was a platerax before hte plate changes and on ravens to take out small ships. Otherwise, useless. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Jarjar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Tunajuice Also, battleship 5 has more uses than battlecruiser 5.. Nah, Command Ships are nice. "This was not a fight it was simply a pathetic gank." - Ginger Magician
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:28:00 - [16] Edited by: welsh wizard on 14/02/2007 17:24:21 Just fit some damps and keep scooping and releasing your drones and it'll borderline exploit its way to 1v1 victory pretty much everytime! :P Ishtar and Domi are worse for that though.
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:34:00 - [17] How can a ship that cank tank over 1000dps as a shield tank in PvE while being cheap not be classed as good? Its a carebares dream ship if they like drones. Passive shield tanking guide click here
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:50:00 - [18] /agree with welsh wizard (nice sig BTW), sensor damps, blasters, drones. Scoop the drones when they take damage and pop them back out, it'll take anything above a frig forever to re-lock, and a frigate or AF will be dead in seconds anyway.
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Jarjar Originally by: Tunajuice Also, battleship 5 has more uses than battlecruiser 5.. Nah, Command Ships are nice. They are NICE, but battleship 5 helps in fleet sniping, and leads to carrier or dread. The furtherest you can ever get with BC5 is command ships.. which are cool, but not necessarily better than a simple BS.
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:01:00 - [20] gotta comment that if tech 2 battleships ever come out you will probably have to have both Battleship and Battlecruiser 5
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:28:00 - [21] Originally by: DarkElf Edited by: DarkElf on 14/02/2007 17:18:42 Originally by: DiuxDium You should hide your alliance ticker when posting stuff like this. i have to agree. wtf are u using small blasters for for a start? and yes the ship has weaknesses but in the right pilots hand it is a very nice solo ship especially. edit: from further reading i'm simply confused. are u saying ppl should fit small blasters because it makes it good or the ship isn't good or it's rubbish with nos ??? DE Okay, never said I use small guns on one. Never even said I have flown one if I wanted a mrym setup I would just do it on a dominx for like 10m more and get a much safer dronebay and a bigger cap, I fail to see how it can be better than a domi in 90% of situations. I am trying to highlight the fine points and problems of the game to people. This thread can easily be reinturprited for the Domonix too. Basically Myrm works really well not becaue its a 'good' ship as some people imagine it. It takes advantage the good safe things in the game. (e.g cap free minmatar auto cannns like someone pointed out above, great? With that drone bonus to kick up overall damge you now have a high damaging ship that can varry damage types and has DPS that does not depend on being NOSed GREAT!. Now show me how this is fair if you picked amarr where cap is your life....) For example when people refere to say the Domi as being a good ship people are not really refering to the hybrid domi setup we should assume given its bonus', but rather to some sort of nano or Nos setup. It works, fair enough, I think it should work eve should have variation and suprise but it stinks when 90% of Domis have this setup because it works that much better than hybrid domi's. I just don't think that NOS and small-gun setups should work A LOT better than the bonus giving intended hybrid setups. Reason I pick on the myrm is because without its 5% hybrid bonus it is a nod towards this idea of counter racial-bonus-intention setups being vastly greater than the racial expected. I did not think the day would come when a combat geared gallante ship would not have a 5% bonus. Someone wrote myrm don't use small guns Oh please! I have seen loads of myrms with small guns to save grid for s*t loads of NOS/Neuts with injectors and a big fat 1600mm plate. *************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:32:00 - [22] Let's compare how the Dominix stacks up against the Mega, which is a gunship. It has 2 less highslots, 1 more mid, same lows. It has less powergrid so it can't really fit guns larger than electrons. Now the Myrmidon has 1 less highslot than the Brutix, 1 more low, 1 more mid, it has _MORE_ powergrid than the brutix. Which just screams for a medium gun fitting in my opinion. The myrmidon in my opinion is a combination gunship/droneship, because of its limited dronebay you shouldn't consider it a pure droneship. There have been several cases where I have been able to win fights with multiple smaller ships even when they were able to kill all my drones because I fit a full rack of heavy ions.
Yunii	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:32:00 - [23] Its not your typcial Gallente turret/baster boat no. If you have the nessesary skills to take advantage of what the Myrm does offer it's one hell've tough fight 1v1/BC vs BC. And yeah if they target your drone(s), recall them and send them back out..
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:32:00 - [24] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 14/02/2007 17:24:21 Just fit some damps and keep scooping and releasing your drones and it'll borderline exploit its way to 1v1 victory pretty much everytime! :P Ishtar and Domi are worse for that though. Ishtar is bad too lol. This guy red my post and understood the points. Noticed many brain dead flames above the kind that don't bother me as the people making them are jarg anyhow. ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:50:00 - [25] Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 14/02/2007 18:49:16 Originally by: ForeverKnight Let's compare how the Dominix stacks up against the Mega, which is a gunship. It has 2 less highslots, 1 more mid, same lows. It has less powergrid so it can't really fit guns larger than electrons. Now the Myrmidon has 1 less highslot than the Brutix, 1 more low, 1 more mid, it has _MORE_ powergrid than the brutix. Which just screams for a medium gun fitting in my opinion. The myrmidon in my opinion is a combination gunship/droneship, because of its limited dronebay you shouldn't consider it a pure droneship. There have been several cases where I have been able to win fights with multiple smaller ships even when they were able to kill all my drones because I fit a full rack of heavy ions. Yeah I see your point. With no bonus though why not save all that grid and CPU used on medium guns for a big plate and a injector and some fat tanking? A light Neutron cannon does 85.7% the damage of a medium Electron gun, Ions only do 5% more than a eletron of the same class. All that grid and CPU used to fit Ions could have fitted Light neutrons and you would not have been loosing out as the myrm has no 5% medium hybrid bonus, eh? With 1 magstab II you could have made back the 20% dps loss of using small neutrons. The result would be a setup that used less cap had greater tracking and problaby a 70%+ pg saving and loads of CPU saving all for the cost of a low slot.... my point stands. ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Aterna Minmatar M'8'S	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:52:00 - [26] I don't see why anyone would ever fit undersized guns on the Myrmidon. It has plenty of powergrid to fit medium guns. I think what you meant to say in your OP is that it encourages using Projectiles instead of Hybrid weapons, as they have lower fitting, somewhat less dps, and no cap use. While using small guns on it saves a huge amount of grid, there's almost no way to use all of that grid, unless the setup calls for multiple 1600 plates. Which there isn't any reason for, as 1 cripples the ship's mobility and adds about 50% more armor to the ship. A lot of people advocate autocannons, because while they are not in the same league as a rack of blasters, they deal out quality damage while allowing the pilot to dedicate his entire capacitor towards tanking. Also, the higher falloff allows the pilot to start shooting sooner, say at 10km or 12km vs 5km for blasters. Most drone users know to rescoop the things once they start getting damage, and since you intend to be up in their face with your ship, it shouldn't be hard to scoop up the drone before it gets popped. All of this does not mean the Myrmidon is not a good ship. It means that it is an incredibly versatile ship, that can fit a large variety of setups, making it hard to predict if people would use something besides the standard six nos and whee! setups seen so commonly. What makes this ship, and really all drone ships, somewhat broken, is the dronebay mechanic. It can be difficult to master, and takes some micromanagement, but if pulled off correctly, makes countering the ship hard, if not borderline impossible. Expect NOS to get fixed soon, expect the nano fad to get killed, but the drone bay mechanic will probably stay until drones themselves get another much needed overhaul. - - -
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:54:00 - [27] Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 14/02/2007 18:54:33 ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:55:00 - [28] Because if I wanted something that moved like a battleship I'd have gotten a dominix for 15 mil more. Come to think of it I do have one for larger engagements. The Myrmidon is when you need the speed of a cruiser with the gank of a battleship. Small gang and 1 on 1 engagements. There you need to move fast and drop targets quick, which is where the med blasters come into play. Yeah a big fat tank is nice but I'd rather have a dominix with a big fat tank instead of a myrmidon with a big fat tank, especially since the dominix can fit spare drones.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:55:00 - [29] 5 med slots, you can fit atleast 1 damper which protects your drones pretty well in a 1v1 i find.
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 19:13:00 - [30] To all that: because with my skills I can comfortably fit a full Tech 2 dual repper tank with a full rack of med ion blasters (Tech II) so why would I use anything smaller? All of that PG would go to waste. Also I hit just fine on cruisers when they are webbed with medium blasters using Void (skills again). Hell sometimes in gangs I fit a dual web setup and can even hit interceptors for full damage using Void.
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 19:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Aterna I don't see why anyone would ever fit undersized guns on the Myrmidon. It has plenty of powergrid to fit medium guns. I think what you meant to say in your OP is that it encourages using Projectiles instead of Hybrid weapons, as they have lower fitting, somewhat less dps, and no cap use. While using small guns on it saves a huge amount of grid, there's almost no way to use all of that grid, unless the setup calls for multiple 1600 plates. Which there isn't any reason for, as 1 cripples the ship's mobility and adds about 50% more armor to the ship. A lot of people advocate autocannons, because while they are not in the same league as a rack of blasters, they deal out quality damage while allowing the pilot to dedicate his entire capacitor towards tanking. Also, the higher falloff allows the pilot to start shooting sooner, say at 10km or 12km vs 5km for blasters. Most drone users know to rescoop the things once they start getting damage, and since you intend to be up in their face with your ship, it shouldn't be hard to scoop up the drone before it gets popped. All of this does not mean the Myrmidon is not a good ship. It means that it is an incredibly versatile ship, that can fit a large variety of setups, making it hard to predict if people would use something besides the standard six nos and whee! setups seen so commonly. What makes this ship, and really all drone ships, somewhat broken, is the dronebay mechanic. It can be difficult to master, and takes some micromanagement, but if pulled off correctly, makes countering the ship hard, if not borderline impossible. Expect NOS to get fixed soon, expect the nano fad to get killed, but the drone bay mechanic will probably stay until drones themselves get another much needed overhaul. Good points. But what if your not gallante. What if your amarr? and you want a exploit ship that does away with your racial bonus to give you the ability to rape? and you are not a year old and thus the curse is too far away nor do you want to wase time dead ending gallante criuser skills. NOS+DRONE+MWD combo is deadly. It really is. On there own there formidable, but together ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 19:20:00 - [32] Originally by: ForeverKnight To all that: because with my skills I can comfortably fit a full Tech 2 dual repper tank with a full rack of med ion blasters (Tech II) so why would I use anything smaller? All of that PG would go to waste. Also I hit just fine on cruisers when they are webbed with medium blasters using Void (skills again). Hell sometimes in gangs I fit a dual web setup and can even hit interceptors for full damage using Void. You really cannot fit a better tank on using smalls? You sure? Your midslot setup could not be enhanced by all that grid+CPU? you sure? No high slots are wasted in your setup aswell? Are you sure? Sure theres not a checky small NOS in there where there could be a medium one? No? Well then you are right. Though if your willing to post your setup I am sure it could be improved for the exact purpose your using it for now. ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 19:24:00 - [33] Edited by: ForeverKnight on 14/02/2007 19:21:14 6x Heavy Ion II MWD, Cap booster, 3x EW or web or scrambler mods 2x Medium armor repairers (faction or best named) 4x lowslots for hardeners or damage mods And enough CPU to go around. Not sure how I can fit a better ship if I had more PG and didn't want to fit a plate. If I was to use one electron blaster I could fit tech 2 med armor repairers.
Arte Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.02.14 19:30:00 - [34] Originally by: Tibrius Archer Like I said, no loss in damage over medium ions with just 1 mag stab mate. You problaby drop things faster and quicker with smalls as they just wreck on criuser class targets and track like a mofo. U talk about being quick too... small guns will enable you to start hitting just after you turn of say a MWD too. Also don't have to add a plate or make the ship slow for a fat tank?. Why not use the saved CPU to use T2 hardners instead of T1. Also that extra CPU could be used to realise some EW that is really not possible CPU wise if using a IONs . Oh and if you want to fit a little NOS the cpu will help there. Reconsider. What is sounds like to me is that you think it makes more sense to use small guns on this ship for all the reasons you list above... ...and because of that, the ship is abhorent to you and everyone should say it's a pile of poo because they dare to either work around or take advantage of the fact that it doesn't have a gun bonus Lots of other players in here are saying, "don't fit small guns, try.... [whatever]" and you then say they're all flaming you and trolls and not worth listening to. Why did you post If you're going to propose a question... ...but it's possible you won't like the answer... ......then don't ask it in the first place
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 19:44:00 - [35] Originally by: ForeverKnight Edited by: ForeverKnight on 14/02/2007 19:27:20 Edited by: ForeverKnight on 14/02/2007 19:21:14 6x Heavy Ion II MWD, Cap booster, 3x EW or web or scrambler mods 2x Medium armor repairers (faction or best named) 4x lowslots for hardeners or damage mods 5x tech 2 heavy drones And enough CPU to go around. Not sure how I can fit a better ship if I had more PG and didn't want to fit a plate. If I was to use one electron blaster I could fit tech 2 med armor repairers. Again, if I was to go fight something against which I wanted a plate, I'd grab my dominix (which costs almost the same to fit and buy as a Myrmidon for me.) Okay. named reppers just don't cut it. Best market listed named is 10% worse than tech 2 for repping and thus 10% worse Cap to Hp effceincy plus medium accoms cost a bomb these days. By forcing the use of those named reppers your throwing away a nice bit of extra tank and ISK. In all honestly it depends on your other slots. If you can use the slot you would otherwise use to raise the dps of light Neutron to medium ions level to increase your resistances by 10%+ then you have won. Though as I said its not just a DPS choice Light guns really save cap when under heavy nos and the tracking enables the near insta popping of frigs and and enemy drones for that matter as drone ships get ever popular.... ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 19:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Arte Originally by: Tibrius Archer Like I said, no loss in damage over medium ions with just 1 mag stab mate. You problaby drop things faster and quicker with smalls as they just wreck on criuser class targets and track like a mofo. U talk about being quick too... small guns will enable you to start hitting just after you turn of say a MWD too. Also don't have to add a plate or make the ship slow for a fat tank?. Why not use the saved CPU to use T2 hardners instead of T1. Also that extra CPU could be used to realise some EW that is really not possible CPU wise if using a IONs . Oh and if you want to fit a little NOS the cpu will help there. Reconsider. What is sounds like to me is that you think it makes more sense to use small guns on this ship for all the reasons you list above... ...and because of that, the ship is abhorent to you and everyone should say it's a pile of poo because they dare to either work around or take advantage of the fact that it doesn't have a gun bonus Lots of other players in here are saying, "don't fit small guns, try.... [whatever]" and you then say they're all flaming you and trolls and not worth listening to. Why did you post If you're going to propose a question... ...but it's possible you won't like the answer... ......then don't ask it in the first place I posted to express a view. To see if others have a few on the matter. I will accept clear and valid counter debate. Yes I will call comments like "hide your alliance ticker blah blah" as a flame because thatÆs what it is. A flame. Some people who have not agreed with me have posted some really valid comments and I have even commented, "Good post". Read through the original points think and post a reply that furthers the discussion like others have. Not just attempt at a "intelligent flame". ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.14 20:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Kulmid So uh... did you read the OP? You agree that small blaster, nos and med drones, is not a way to go, but you also flamed someone for saying the same thing? Kinda ironic that you are the one that needs to re-read the op. Those two are disagreeing. The op feels that small guns and nos are cheesy to fit on a myrmidon but they are the best weapons to use on one. The person you're crituqing was saying that myrmidon is in fact best with medium guns, as the op feels it should be. -Bart
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 20:19:00 - [38] Edited by: ForeverKnight on 14/02/2007 20:19:58 Originally by: Tibrius Archer Okay. named reppers just don't cut it. Best market listed named is 10% worse than tech 2 for repping and thus 10% worse Cap to Hp effceincy plus medium accoms cost a bomb these days. By forcing the use of those named reppers your throwing away a nice bit of extra tank and ISK. In all honestly it depends on your other slots. If you can use the slot you would otherwise use to raise the dps of light Neutron to medium ions level to increase your resistances by 10%+ then you have won. Though as I said its not just a DPS choice Light guns really save cap when under heavy nos and the tracking enables the near insta popping of frigs and and enemy drones for that matter as drone ships get ever popular.... That's why I said faction, they are just as good as tech 2 albeit costing more, I can drop one gun size down and get tech 2 on there. My setup has about the maximum sustainable tank (without plates) and can be configured different ways (EANMII's and DCU, Active hardeners, some mix etc.), and then puts the maximum gank on top of it (5x heavy ion II's, 1 electron II, or 6x heavy ion II's). If I wanted a gank myrmidon I could use 6 heavy ions, 3 MFS II's in the lows and still be able to fit a wicked passive shield tank on top of that. But then I sacrifice all my midslots. Thing is, if you want a plated tank, just go the extra mile and get a dominix for an extra 15 mil, and fit heavy nos/guns on it for even more gank than the myrmidon. If you have a myrmidon, don't waste its speed and repper bonus advantages for a plated tank. If I come across a plated/small gun myrmidon there's a very easy way to beat it. Put Null into your blasters and stay at around 7.5-10 km. I'm faster than he is and I can tank his drones while killing them. After they're all dead I don't even need my drones to kill him, and the pop in and out trick doesn't quite work when you're more than point-blank away from your target. The only thing that's better is a tech 2 autocannon Myrmidon ^.^ I'm working on that.
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 20:33:00 - [39] Originally by: ForeverKnight Originally by: Tibrius Archer Okay. named reppers just don't cut it. Best market listed named is 10% worse than tech 2 for repping and thus 10% worse Cap to Hp effceincy plus medium accoms cost a bomb these days. By forcing the use of those named reppers your throwing away a nice bit of extra tank and ISK. In all honestly it depends on your other slots. If you can use the slot you would otherwise use to raise the dps of light Neutron to medium ions level to increase your resistances by 10%+ then you have won. Though as I said its not just a DPS choice Light guns really save cap when under heavy nos and the tracking enables the near insta popping of frigs and and enemy drones for that matter as drone ships get ever popular.... That's why I said faction, they are just as good as tech 2 albeit costing more, I can drop one gun size down and get tech 2 on there. My setup has about the maximum sustainable tank (without plates) and can be configured different ways (EANMII's and DCU, Active hardeners, some mix etc.), and then puts the maximum gank on top of it (5x heavy ion II's, 1 electron II, or 6x heavy ion II's). If I wanted a gank myrmidon I could use 6 heavy ions, 3 MFS II's in the lows and still be able to fit a wicked passive shield tank on top of that. But then I sacrifice all my midslots. Thing is, if you want a plated tank, just go the extra mile and get a dominix for an extra 15 mil, and fit heavy nos/guns on it for even more gank than the myrmidon. If you have a myrmidon, don't waste its speed and repper bonus advantages for a plated tank. Again I am not just saying plate the thing. Just the tracking and and cap use boost from smaller guns is high. high enough in my opinion to be worth using over ions cause the myrm has no 5% bonus. For your situatuon whatever it is I can see you want the DPS thats fine you problaby have a curse with you or something.... ....But to come back on the wider argument of the OP you could FIT some medium NOS and fill the rest of highs with light neutrons. On ther other gallante drone ships ishtar/vexor/Domi NOS is equal slot for slot with guns (if not greater).... but with no damage bonus the balance is tiped in NOSes favour. Your setup may be perfect for what you want. But I feel a overall NOS light neutron mix would do better in 1v1. ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Neuromandis EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.14 20:35:00 - [40] The myrmidon is one of the best ships in the game. The OP is inaccurate, because it states the following reasons as the reasons that the "general public" feels the myrmidon is good. I say it is Not because it does not have a damage bonus to hybrids (that was "implied" when you said it encouraged people to use other guns) Not because it can fit nos (that was implied when you said that you can fit ships in all other ships as well) Not because it can fit small guns (that was directly said) BUT Because: It packs BS damage in a fast BC package (in the form of its drones) Because it has a very good slot layout Because it can tank, gank and tackle in the same sentence You say you would use a dominix instead of it? ok then, riddle me this. Why would you use a prophecy instead of an apocalypse/armageddon? Why would you use a drake instead of a raven? Insert your own answer to your own question - same reason to use the myrmidon instead of the dominix. What are you talking about? You say it is a bad ship because its "ownage" comes from fitting what you inaccurately describe as "borderline exploit" fittings. I answer: What is exploiting about fitting a completely classic blaster/nos/mwd/web/scram/tank/damage mods and completely owning? With the most classic setup possible, you find it is not good enough? Go calculate dps dealed and tanked, and we can talk again about the factors that decide when a ship is good.
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 20:51:00 - [41] Nos+light neutrons would do better for endurance fighting. Like taking on a battleship or a heavily tanked battlecruiser. But just the raw DPS of med blasters+heavy drones is enought to pop a 1600mm plate-rax in less than 30 seconds for example. Nothing smaller than a battleship (or a passive shield tank) can tank that kind of damage for long. Is it a specialized setup? Yes! Is it an effective setup? Yes! Is it fun to fly? Hell Yeah! Not saying that nos-myrmidons don't have advantages, but to be quite honest, they are more geared toward people with lower SP who need the extra endurance than the gun setups.
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.14 20:58:00 - [42] Originally by: Neuromandis The myrmidon is one of the best ships in the game. The OP is inaccurate, because it states the following reasons as the reasons that the "general public" feels the myrmidon is good. I say it is Not because it does not have a damage bonus to hybrids (that was "implied" when you said it encouraged people to use other guns) Not because it can fit nos (that was implied when you said that you can fit ships in all other ships as well) Not because it can fit small guns (that was directly said) BUT Because: It packs BS damage in a fast BC package (in the form of its drones) Because it has a very good slot layout Because it can tank, gank and tackle in the same sentence You say you would use a dominix instead of it? ok then, riddle me this. Why would you use a prophecy instead of an apocalypse/armageddon? Why would you use a drake instead of a raven? Insert your own answer to your own question - same reason to use the myrmidon instead of the dominix. What are you talking about? You say it is a bad ship because its "ownage" comes from fitting what you inaccurately describe as "borderline exploit" fittings. I answer: What is exploiting about fitting a completely classic blaster/nos/mwd/web/scram/tank/damage mods and completely owning? With the most classic setup possible, you find it is not good enough? Go calculate dps dealed and tanked, and we can talk again about the factors that decide when a ship is good. Ok. Some good points. It has a good slot layout as the devs feel it needs this to make up for the %5 damage bonus. Problem is this layout can be used to mount a NOSy platform that would not even use the 5% bonus if it was there. I.E a ship that lends itself even more to wrong size wrong race gun whoring than ever before. I admitt that a classic fitting as you said can work. But it I also feel it would get its as handed to it by a NOS/neut myrm pilot of the same skills in the same whay a blaster Domi although good losses to a NOS domi. prophacy to geddon argument is different as they both have different base resistances both use different primary weapon systems. "You say you would use a dominix instead of it? ok then, riddle me this. Why would you use a prophecy instead of an apocalypse/armageddon? Why would you use a drake instead of a raven? Insert your own answer to your own question - same reason to use the myrmidon instead of the dominix." THe domi has the same main DPS weapon system as myrm with all the same advantages and disadvanatges. The weapon ranges and damage output and cap use are all different between the apoc/geddon and the amarr BC's hence the. there both drone boats that can use the same 5 drones thats why they can be compared like that. Riddle solved. P.S gotto go get ready birds coming round. laters ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.14 21:14:00 - [43] The Myrmidon and Dominix can't be compared to each other....the myrmidon is the only Top-Tier drone ship in the game, the Dominix is a Bottom-Tier droneship.
Norvys Kerens Gallente Terror Knights	Posted - 2007.02.14 21:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: Norvys Kerens Originally by: Galen Silas Wow, obviously you have not fought anyone who knows what there doing with the myrm. QFT The Myrmidon is a superb ship. medium blasters, heavy drones it just tears other ships to pieces, it's awesome. Yeah people can fit NOS on it, but I don't understand why they would based upon my personal experience in this ship. So uh... did you read the OP? He was talking about nos and small guns on the Myrm and medium drones were mentioned in there too, and you are now flaming someone for saying that's not a good way of fitting it then: Originally by: Norvys Kerens medium blasters, heavy drones You agree that small blaster, nos and med drones, is not a way to go, but you also flamed someone for saying the same thing? I wasn't flaming him I was just disagreeing with him, this is a forum for discussion after all. I'd be greatful if you could please point out the part in my post where I "flamed" the OP thanks. As I understood it the OP seemed to be suggesting that the Myrm was a ship that encouraged the use of small guns and NOS, I was arguing that in fact a good Myrm setup has neither small guns nor NOS fitted. ok? make sure you know what the hell you're talking about before you go accusing people of flaming in future. thanks.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2007.02.14 21:42:00 - [45] hey, i have an idea! lets fix these borked drone boats. make em as god intended. no ability to fit different sized guns on ships... ie: no small guns on cruiser hulls etc.... THEN we will give all non NOS specialized ships 1 or 2 nos hardpoints. I think that would make the ishtar, domi and myrm exactly the kind of boats they should be.
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:03:00 - [46] Edited by: SN3263827 on 14/02/2007 21:59:55 Originally by: HankMurphy hey, i have an idea! lets fix these borked drone boats. make em as god intended. no ability to fit different sized guns on ships... ie: no small guns on cruiser hulls etc.... THEN we will give all non NOS specialized ships 1 or 2 nos hardpoints. I think that would make the ishtar, domi and myrm exactly the kind of boats they should be. Go ahead. I never fit more than 2 nos on a domi or myrm, unless specifically outfitting to nuke a capital's capacitor. With a well-managed cap injector, my autocannon myrm/domi will completely decimate a nos-domi or nos-myrm, because all the powergrid they would be using for tank is in nos, and I don't care. To the OP: You're justifying your small guns to fit a plate and a damage mod. That is an awful setup. A plate makes you sluggish, and is no great improvement over the extra hardener/rep you would have in its place. And then you've lost another low to fit your magstab. Please never touch my Gallente ships again. _____________________________________________
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:25:00 - [47] Dunno I killed quite few of them, their size makes it easy to bump them off gates/stations. I think it could be good ship if fitted properly. Too bad taht eos is only 50mil more expensive, otherwise i'd actually try it. -------- .....
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Tibrius Archer Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 14/02/2007 18:49:16 Originally by: ForeverKnight Let's compare how the Dominix stacks up against the Mega, which is a gunship. It has 2 less highslots, 1 more mid, same lows. It has less powergrid so it can't really fit guns larger than electrons. Now the Myrmidon has 1 less highslot than the Brutix, 1 more low, 1 more mid, it has _MORE_ powergrid than the brutix. Which just screams for a medium gun fitting in my opinion. The myrmidon in my opinion is a combination gunship/droneship, because of its limited dronebay you shouldn't consider it a pure droneship. There have been several cases where I have been able to win fights with multiple smaller ships even when they were able to kill all my drones because I fit a full rack of heavy ions. Yeah I see your point. With no bonus though why not save all that grid and CPU used on medium guns for a big plate and a injector and some fat tanking? A light Neutron cannon does 85.7% the damage of a medium Electron gun, Ions only do 5% more than a eletron of the same class. All that grid and CPU used to fit Ions could have fitted Light neutrons and you would not have been loosing out as the myrm has no 5% medium hybrid bonus, eh? With 1 magstab II you could have made back the 20% dps loss of using small neutrons. The result would be a setup that used less cap had greater tracking and problaby a 70%+ pg saving and loads of CPU saving all for the cost of a low slot.... my point stands. The only problem I see with this is that your wrong. Each gun size doubles damage from the size before (large is twice the damage of medium which is twice the damage of small) against SHIPS OF THE CORRECT SIZE. Pull out the tracking guide and see what I mean. Tracking and falloff are huge factors in actual DPS downrange. If you take out tracking and range each size increase is only an extra 1/3 in theoretical base damage / rate (since small neutron blasters have the same damage multiplier as large blasters ectra). We live in an actual, not theoretical world though. Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU!
Guer	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:24:00 - [49] Edited by: Guer on 14/02/2007 23:22:31 Originally by: Tibrius Archer Never even said I have flown one Originally by: Tibrius Archer This thread can easily be reinturprited for the Domonix too. Originally by: Tibrius Archer I posted to express a view. To see if others have a few on the matter. I will accept clear and valid counter debate. Yes I will call comments like "hide your alliance ticker blah blah" as a flame because thatÆs what it is. A flame. Your OP is flaming a ship you've never flown. Flaming setups that hardly anyone flies. Okay. yes. some people fit a full rack of nos/neuts. but small guns?? The thing is a dream to fit.. its swimming in powergrid. And you say its a bad ship. That's simply innacurate. Edit: and that second quote isn't just flaming the spelling.. if you think the myrm and domi are redundant ships merely because they're drone boats with similar slot setups... it kind of shows that your opinions on those ships don't carry much weight in the first place. Hide your alliance ticker when posting something like this.
Warrio	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Tibrius Archer In short. Mrym is a exploit ship. I love the way you didn't exagerate this at all. Sig
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Tibrius Archer It is not a good ship. Its drone bay means you are risking a lot using heavys as any non brain dead PvPer will take out those drones in 1v1 fight. If you use medium drones then your damage drops but atleast your wearing a condom. My main whine is, the fact it has no medium hybrid turret bonus is why people think its so good. Basically it encourages two things: 1: NOS. 2: SMALL GUNS.(underclass guns) These are the two areas where eve as a whole is broken. Any ship can be good by fitting NOS to it and smaller class guns. I think NOSing amounts are prehaps only just balanced I think NOS overall is balanced because its range is not great in criuser class espcially. Problem is NOS is handly coupled with a MWD meaning NOS ship have no range constraints and don't really feel the -25% cap bonus of MWD due to the fact they're stealing their cap. Myrm uses this to be good. ANY ship with lots of NOS and MWD will dominate in PvP particulary against the Amarr.(note to devs have it so NOS and MWD cannot be used together) Next thing about Myrm: 2: Small guns. Ships in genral are too good with small guns I don't use it because I feel dirty I play for a feel good feeling not to basically hack a game. 1600mm Plate thoraxs with small blasters....... the game has whole historys of small gun grid saving allowing for oversized tanks these ships always tend to do well. Normally the ship would have been designed around its correct class of gun and nerfed slot wise for there expected DPS, but the myrm is compensated for the loss of 5% gun bonus with tons of slot fitting versitity than if they where fitted with there correct class of gun making it turbo deadly with small guns. In short. Mrym is a exploit ship. Encouraged to do so. If NOS worked and the gun class system was effective the mrym would and should be a pile of **** at best a EW ship. The myrmidon is a great ship if flown by someone who knows what they are doing, even without using NOS. I was flying alone in my myrmidon and got jumped by an interdictor and a sleipnir. I tanked them both for a good 5 minutes before they got me, all the while doing enough damage to get the sleip down to about 30% armor. Granted if one of them had had a smartbomb or the interdictor had decided to take out my heavy drones Id have been screwed damage wise, but I knew that when I elected to take along heavies instead of mediums. In another seperate instance that just happened recently, myself and 6 corpmates were out on patrol. We had my myrmidon, a drake, brutix, and a few cruisers and frigs. We got jumped by a much larger force that included a domi, 2 myrmidons, and a bunch of other stuff... at least 12 ships total and they had way more firepower than we did. But my myrmidon tanked the hostiles (like 9 of them) long enough for my gang mates to pick off a bunch of them. In the end, we lost 2 ships (my myrmidon and a crow that disconnected as soon as the fight started), and we took out 9 hostiles including the domi, both hostile myrmidons, and a couple cruisers. Bottom line, the myrmidon, with its ability to fit both a good tank, some EW, and good damage all at once, is a flat out nasty ship in competent hands. Its only real weakness (other than that its primary damage dealing ability is targetable by other players) is against very fast ships, as heavy and medium drones just cant keep up with them, and the myrmidon isnt fast enough to stay close either to keep them webbed. This signature space for rent
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:44:00 - [52] Originally by: Tibrius Archer Ishtar is bad too lol. This guy red my post and understood the points. Noticed many brain dead flames above the kind that don't bother me as the people making them are jarg anyhow. So you are saying that because the myrmidon can fit a kick ass tank, a full rack of medium blasters, MWD, web, scram, and a little EW, plus a full flight of heavy drones with a nice damage bonus, ALL at the same time, that its not a good ship ? Just because someone might choose to fit NOS or small guns on it instead ? Personally, I dont use NOS or small guns on my myrmidon most of the time, especially not for pvp. Its simply too good as a combination blaster/droneboat/tank. This signature space for rent
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:49:00 - [53] Originally by: Tibrius Archer Originally by: ForeverKnight To all that: because with my skills I can comfortably fit a full Tech 2 dual repper tank with a full rack of med ion blasters (Tech II) so why would I use anything smaller? All of that PG would go to waste. Also I hit just fine on cruisers when they are webbed with medium blasters using Void (skills again). Hell sometimes in gangs I fit a dual web setup and can even hit interceptors for full damage using Void. You really cannot fit a better tank on using smalls? You sure? Your midslot setup could not be enhanced by all that grid+CPU? you sure? No high slots are wasted in your setup aswell? Are you sure? Sure theres not a checky small NOS in there where there could be a medium one? No? Well then you are right. Though if your willing to post your setup I am sure it could be improved for the exact purpose your using it for now. 6 x t2 medium blasters (electron or ion, depending on fitting skills) MWD, Scram, web, 2x sensor damps, Cap injector 2x MAR II, hardeners to taste T2 Ogres in dronebay If solo I will usually take out 1 dampener in favor of a webber. In a gang I let tacklers do the webbing for me. Thats a setup that has served me well, and doesnt use any of your so-called "cheap" tactics (NOS, small guns, etc). This signature space for rent
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.15 01:03:00 - [54] at this topic I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.15 01:47:00 - [55] Originally by: ForeverKnight gotta comment that if tech 2 battleships ever come out you will probably have to have both Battleship and Battlecruiser 5 I doubt it. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Got Alliance? Contact me ingame for alliance creation services.
Miranda Ceres	Posted - 2007.02.15 02:02:00 - [56] Edited by: Miranda Ceres on 15/02/2007 01:58:50 The Myrmidon is in serious trouble if it comes up against something BS class with heavy nos and/or a smartbomb or two. I love flying my myrmidon, but at the end of the day it's not invincible and far from it.
Kazire	Posted - 2007.02.15 02:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Miranda Ceres Edited by: Miranda Ceres on 15/02/2007 01:58:50 The Myrmidon is in serious trouble if it comes up against something BS class with heavy nos and/or a smartbomb or two. I love flying my myrmidon, but at the end of the day it's not invincible and far from it. then you are not flying this ship to its full potential. A myrm can tank most bs's no problem, and nos is not an issue with this ship.
king jks New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.02.15 02:16:00 - [58] The fit I use on my myrmidon for pvp is more of an adaptation of a brutix than a pure drone ship: 4x ion 2x electron MWD scram web cap injector sensor booster 2x MAR II 3x T2 active hardeners (kin,therm,exp) 1x Damage control II 5x hammerhead II 5x valkyrie II 5x warrior II Perhaps once I get T2 heavy drones I will start using them, but I see no benefit in using T1 heavies over T2 mediums. ------------------------ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -Albert Einstein
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.15 02:40:00 - [59] Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 15/02/2007 02:39:42 Originally by: SN3263827 Edited by: SN3263827 on 14/02/2007 21:59:55 Originally by: HankMurphy hey, i have an idea! lets fix these borked drone boats. make em as god intended. no ability to fit different sized guns on ships... ie: no small guns on cruiser hulls etc.... THEN we will give all non NOS specialized ships 1 or 2 nos hardpoints. I think that would make the ishtar, domi and myrm exactly the kind of boats they should be. Go ahead. I never fit more than 2 nos on a domi or myrm, unless specifically outfitting to nuke a capital's capacitor. With a well-managed cap injector, my autocannon myrm/domi will completely decimate a nos-domi or nos-myrm, because all the powergrid they would be using for tank is in nos, and I don't care. To the OP: You're justifying your small guns to fit a plate and a damage mod. That is an awful setup. A plate makes you sluggish, and is no great improvement over the extra hardener/rep you would have in its place. And then you've lost another low to fit your magstab. Please never touch my Gallente ships again. If you used a more agressive NOS/Neut fitting you would win more! Recently I have been flying NOS domi's abiet with maxed drone and gallante skills so I do 466dps+ with say ogre 2's and I took on a small blob the other day and won. Just watch Farjung's reckless and see what I mean. I will be uploading this footage soon of me raping loads of targets iin a Domi too. Its rediculous that my mega with 200m in fittings can't do what my cheapo nos domi can achive. P.S injectors don't save people as my NOS/Neut rate exceeds 900cap units every 12 seconds. ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Gamble Dakota Immortalis Silens Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.15 03:57:00 - [60] Damp + Drone Cycling and any half brained myrm pilot just beat the intelligent Drake pilot without breaking a sweat. Of course, if that Drake pilot was actually intelligent, he never would have engaged a battleship in the first place. Oh, sorry, meant Gallente tier 2 BC. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: "Nir" There is no place for morality in EVE. I find the correct answer is rarely the truthful one.
Benglada Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.15 05:27:00 - [61] Originally by: Pottsey How can a ship that cank tank over 1000dps as a shield tank in PvE while being cheap not be classed as good? Its a carebares dream ship if they like drones. Have you ever made a post without mentioning the word shield? EVER? --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.15 06:27:00 - [62] The myrm is a ship that screams versatility this is why. 5 mid slots for shield tank or ewar or cap boosters n such. Dont want to shield tank?Armor tanking with the myrm is also a beast. 125m3 dronebay with a drone damage bonus. enough pg and cpu to fit a nos setup or a med blaster ganking setup. Now i see your point about killing the drones,but that only happens if your enemy is far out of your range because if your close enough to your drones you can simply just recall them,which works whether your using a blaster setup or nos setup. And if you use med drones 125 dronebay is pretty nice. All in all i do have to agree it isnt the typical gellente droneboat,but thats not necessarily a bad thing. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr.
Gallente Caliente Anti-BoB Flash Mob	Posted - 2007.02.15 07:58:00 - [63] Edited by: Gallente Caliente on 15/02/2007 07:57:11 ^^^^^ what he said. The beauty of the vexor/myrmy/domi line is you don't always know what you're going to get since they are so versatile. Is it gonna nos you? Blaster you? Attack at range with drones/rails? ----------------------------------------------- www.nobob.info
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.15 09:14:00 - [64] Originally by: Gamble Dakota Damp + Drone Cycling and any half brained myrm pilot just beat the intelligent Drake pilot without breaking a sweat. Of course, if that Drake pilot was actually intelligent, he never would have engaged a battleship in the first place. Oh, sorry, meant Gallente tier 2 BC. You sure about that? I can't get my buddy's passive Drake much below 50% shields. Btw, I'm using OgreIIs with BC4 and Drone Interfacing5. Then again I can easily escape too so it's pretty much a draw. Nossed Drake = no cap for scram.
El'Tar Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.02.15 11:39:00 - [65] I faught a myrm in my drake, just went for his drones, and there went his dps, couldnt keep scramb on him though due to nos :( I do think Myrm's are overpowerd though
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.02.15 18:54:00 - [66] ôOriginally by: Benglada Have you ever made a post without mentioning the word shield? EVER?ö There was that one time I accidentally posted with my alt who doesnÆt have a sig with the word ôshieldö in. Passive shield tanking guide click here
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.02.15 19:21:00 - [67] Originally by: Tibrius Archer If you used a more agressive NOS/Neut fitting you would win more! I doubt it. The myrmidon has more flexibility than the dominix when it comes to nosferatu fitting, but if I had 1750MW spare to throw at each high slot I'd be using large blasters not nos. If we're waving anecdotal evidence around, I've solo'd multiple BS in my single-nos domi, and multiple cruisers/battlecruisers and well as solo BS in my single/dual nos myrmidon. Sometimes under sentry fire. I'm not going to pretend that that makes my setup the best though. Quote: Its rediculous that my mega with 200m in fittings can't do what my cheapo nos domi can achive. Its ridiculous that my hyperion can't warp cloaked when my 40 million isk arazu can. Apples and oranges. Quote: P.S injectors don't save people as my NOS/Neut rate exceeds 900cap units every 12 seconds. A well managed cap booster won't give a damn. _____________________________________________
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.02.15 19:26:00 - [68] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: ForeverKnight gotta comment that if tech 2 battleships ever come out you will probably have to have both Battleship and Battlecruiser 5 I doubt it. I don't. Look at all the T2 ship classes. AF requires Frig 5 HACs require AF 4 Command ships require HAC 4 It makes sense that a T2 BS will require Command ships 4 following the existing pattern. _____________________________________________
Jerick Ludhowe Internet Tough Guys Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.15 19:49:00 - [69] Originally by: Kruel You sure about that? I can't get my buddy's passive Drake much below 50% shields. Btw, I'm using OgreIIs with BC4 and Drone Interfacing5. Then again I can easily escape too so it's pretty much a draw. Nossed Drake = no cap for scram. Scram does not even really matter as you have an mwd and he doesnt. If he happens to have both a scram and MWD fitted then his tank is going to suffer, significantly. For that reason running several nos when fighting a passive drake is stupid as you're not fighting his cap you're fighting his capless passive regen. Put 6 guns on it and let me know how well he holds up Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you****got"
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:54:00 - [70] Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 15/02/2007 20:54:08 Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 15/02/2007 20:53:49 Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 15/02/2007 20:52:59 Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 15/02/2007 20:52:30 Originally by: SN3263827 Originally by: Tibrius Archer If you used a more agressive NOS/Neut fitting you would win more! I doubt it. The myrmidon has more flexibility than the dominix when it comes to nosferatu fitting, but if I had 1750MW spare to throw at each high slot I'd be using large blasters not nos. If we're waving anecdotal evidence around, I've solo'd multiple BS in my single-nos domi, and multiple cruisers/battlecruisers and well as solo BS in my single/dual nos myrmidon. Sometimes under sentry fire. I'm not going to pretend that that makes my setup the best though. Quote: Its rediculous that my mega with 200m in fittings can't do what my cheapo nos domi can achive.[/quoteIts ridiculous that my hyperion can't warp cloaked when my 40 million isk arazu can. Apples and oranges Quote: P.S injectors don't save people as my NOS/Neut rate exceeds 900cap units every 12 seconds. A well managed cap booster won't give a damn. But could you really have had those victorys in the hinted at racial setup? i.e could that have been achived with blasters? You HAVE to answer no. Please don't repost and lie to me either and say that you could have had those vitorys using blasters.....be honest this thread is about furthering EvE not lying to me to win an argument. (this comment is not directly pointed at you.) Apples and oranges? eh? So its OK that a the cheaper BS of a race fitted, not with its racial weapon, can achive more than the more expensive BS the once top of the line megathron when fitted with its designed for racial weapon racial weapon? Comon please! Do you really belive thats ok. Are you really trying to say it makes balanced sense that a NOS domi can achive more 8/10 than a blasterthron? Comically sighting the differance between Arazu and a hyperion as some sort of comparison designed principly to draw ridicule to my quote was strange. I don't know why you did that it served no point. Seriously You can out drain cap boosting ships when you have those levels of CAP attack on someone. As soon as they inject its gone.... Seriously I am not lying about this I am no n00b I have done it to people and had it done to me. ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
ForeverKnight Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:06:00 - [71] bah in the end who cares? people with low SP prefer drones, nos, and missiles. People with more SP prefer guns because they can use them effectively. End of story.
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:28:00 - [72] Originally by: Tibrius Archer But could you really have had those victorys in the hinted at racial setup? i.e could that have been achived with blasters? You HAVE to answer no. No I don't. I only recently started using autocannons and before that used Heavy Ions on my myrmidon with similar success. Changing to ACs saves me some cap that's all. I don't see anything anywhere saying I have to use medium hybrids on a battlecruiser, and without a damage bonus there's little point. However, fitting small blasters on a myrm is stupid because you'll have hundreds of MW going spare that give you no advantage, and anyone with medium blasters fitted will destroy you. I love it, for example, when a small-gun platerax engages my medium-gun thorax, Orbit at optimal and web and the small guns can't hit me. Quote: Please don't repost and lie to me either and say that you could have had those vitorys using blasters..... Actually a lot of the victories I had in mind when I posted were with medium blasters, and the examples were showing that guns and 1 or 2 nos are better than just nos, and not autocannons over blasters. I certainly wouldn't have won my dominix vs 2 raven fight with a nos domi. And that one was definitely a blaster fight because I didn't even have the autocannon skills at that point. Quote: Apples and oranges? eh? So its OK that a the cheaper BS of a race fitted, not with its racial weapon, can achive more than the more expensive BS the once top of the line megathron when fitted with its designed for racial weapon racial weapon? Comon please Yes. Its all about role. You wouldn't take a domi in a sniper fleet would you? Quote: Do you really belive thats ok. Are you really trying to say it makes balanced sense that a NOS domi can achive more 8/10 than a blasterthron? Comically sighting the differance between Arazu and a hyperion as some sort of comparison designed principly to draw ridicule to my quote was strange. I don't know why you did that it served no point. You mising the point doesn't negate the point. Blasterthrons definitely have their uses, but they aren't as good solo as dominixes. Not every ship is good in every circumstance. Quote: Seriously You can out drain cap boosting ships when you have those levels of CAP attack on someone. As soon as they inject its gone.... Unless you have magical nos and neuts that have zero cycle time all I have to do is activate modules as soon as the booster cycles. It is possible to step the nos so that you cover as much of the booster cycle as possible but it isn't perfect and I have the advantage of being able to see my mod cycle. _____________________________________________
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:32:00 - [73] Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 15/02/2007 21:32:35 Okay maybe I need re clarify some core arguments here. This is NOT a thread saying ôI donÆt think the myrm is good cause I canÆt fit it blah blah ô or ôOr the myrm is ** because it has crap this that or the otherö This is a myrm is post because of what it represents. Its a ship that potentially gives the gallante more versatility than they deserve. Every other race has a ship in the myrm class that plays to their battle ethic. Myrm is very generous on fitting and very open minded in fitted which bad if youÆre on the outside looking in (Especially if your amarr it looks like a another opportunity not to get hit with blasters and tank like your supposed too, it looks like another way to pick at your cap with NOS) It pays to small gun use without its hybrid bonus and panders to NOS because of this too. And it then has a good slot layout as conciliation for a lost hybrid bonus that probably would not give it the edge over a NOS setup in 80%+ of combat scenarios. The CORE problems with EvE, I cannot stress this enough: Ships fitted with * loads of NOS and perhaps small guns particularly if the ship is a drone ship largely dominates. Not just other ships but would even dominate itself if it was fitted with the weapon system it was designed around* Quiz time. 1) How many ISHTAR setups have medium blasters? Be honest? Go to the movies section of the forums and it will be very much harder to find PvP vids with medium blaster ISHTARS than it will be to find NOS/Small gun ISHTAR videos. 2) How many Domis have you seen in the last 6 months that did not have ** loads of NOS? Not just defensive either but an aggressive cap devastation setup NOS/neut setup? Now compare this to the amount of hybrid based Domi you see? The CORE statements. I will fully admit that it would cost me over 200m to fit my mega to be able to destroy my own NOS Domi if I was flying it. I will go on to say that for an Amarr ship to destroy me with lasers it would take almost an act of God when flying the NOS Domi. I hate myrm as I said earlier not for the instant coffee reason people first assume that I sighted at the top. I hate it for what it represents in EvE. The way things are going with the combat model. I do believe EvE should have surprise setups that work; I think it would be boring if every ship did what the description suggested exactly. I even will go as far and concede that NOS instead of hybrids should be better in 50% of situations on a lot of setups (typically drone boats) !!(I think that is very liberal of me) But I feel itÆs a sham when NOS out performs auto guns, hybrids and lasers ( all of the correct size) for a lot of setups. *************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:46:00 - [74] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Kruel You sure about that? I can't get my buddy's passive Drake much below 50% shields. Btw, I'm using OgreIIs with BC4 and Drone Interfacing5. Then again I can easily escape too so it's pretty much a draw. Nossed Drake = no cap for scram. Scram does not even really matter as you have an mwd and he doesnt. If he happens to have both a scram and MWD fitted then his tank is going to suffer, significantly. For that reason running several nos when fighting a passive drake is stupid as you're not fighting his cap you're fighting his capless passive regen. Put 6 guns on it and let me know how well he holds up True, but then I'd lose to a nos-a-don and face more difficulty with long range orbiters. Rock paper scissors I guess.
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:49:00 - [75] Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 15/02/2007 21:48:42 Originally by: SN3263827 Originally by: Tibrius Archer But could you really have had those victorys in the hinted at racial setup? i.e could that have been achived with blasters? You HAVE to answer no. No I don't. I only recently started using autocannons and before that used Heavy Ions on my myrmidon with similar success. Changing to ACs saves me some cap that's all. I don't see anything anywhere saying I have to use medium hybrids on a battlecruiser, and without a damage bonus there's little point. However, fitting small blasters on a myrm is stupid because you'll have hundreds of MW going spare that give you no advantage, and anyone with medium blasters fitted will destroy you. I love it, for example, when a small-gun platerax engages my medium-gun thorax, Orbit at optimal and web and the small guns can't hit me. Quote: Please don't repost and lie to me either and say that you could have had those vitorys using blasters..... Actually a lot of the victories I had in mind when I posted were with medium blasters, and the examples were showing that guns and 1 or 2 nos are better than just nos, and not autocannons over blasters. I certainly wouldn't have won my dominix vs 2 raven fight with a nos domi. And that one was definitely a blaster fight because I didn't even have the autocannon skills at that point. Quote: Apples and oranges? eh? So its OK that a the cheaper BS of a race fitted, not with its racial weapon, can achive more than the more expensive BS the once top of the line megathron when fitted with its designed for racial weapon racial weapon? Comon please Yes. Its all about role. You wouldn't take a domi in a sniper fleet would you? Quote: Do you really belive thats ok. Are you really trying to say it makes balanced sense that a NOS domi can achive more 8/10 than a blasterthron? Comically sighting the differance between Arazu and a hyperion as some sort of comparison designed principly to draw ridicule to my quote was strange. I don't know why you did that it served no point. You mising the point doesn't negate the point. Blasterthrons definitely have their uses, but they aren't as good solo as dominixes. Not every ship is good in every circumstance. Quote: Seriously You can out drain cap boosting ships when you have those levels of CAP attack on someone. As soon as they inject its gone.... Unless you have magical nos and neuts that have zero cycle time all I have to do is activate modules as soon as the booster cycles. It is possible to step the nos so that you cover as much of the booster cycle as possible but it isn't perfect and I have the advantage of being able to see my mod cycle. Seriosuly when NOSed that much it effects your repping loads U can still get the odd cycle in but its problaby not enough to stop there heavy drone bonused drones or tank breaking weapon..... unless there miles below you in skill. Oh and if your in a laser ship you are dead. Surely you will at least agree with me on that Y/N? Inshort. I was going to answer you point by point but you seem not to see any of my arguments anyway. Its like we play totally different games? Are you the same Rabbits that hang out around Jan? Cause if your a pirate ganker fighting mostly unprepaired people we may well be playing different games. I think its suspicious as you really fight me on every point I may well be talking ** here but I am no n00b I am not making this up. I ask you this. Is NOS, and small gun undersizing balanced verses the hinted at decription defacto setup of ships for the say 90% of PvP comon ships in EvE Y/N? *************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
BANDID NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:40:00 - [76] I dont get the author all the new BC are exellent ships in the right hands and with the rights skills (imo get in a tier 2 BC when having BC lvl 5 for max bonus) if not skilled enough stop whining get in a cyclone , ferox or brutix prophecy they are fine and deadly ships allso just because (i think u are unexperianced in pvp and skill wise) dont whine about ships ive seen a Myr Tank 2 BS and kill both ive seen a Hurricane do the Same (it was mine) so pls stop talking or make topics about this ship is bad or that ship is bad Every ship is good for the right purpose. And Yeah Myr is an UBER PVE/NPC ship im loving it! Train ure drones skills dude !!! T2 heavy are IMBA
Phoenicia Macabre Votum Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.16 13:03:00 - [77] Originally by: Tibrius Archer Any ship can be good by fitting NOS to it and smaller class guns. Yea, like that one time when I fitted my Raven with 4x small lasers and 4x large NOS. HA! I totally pwned those 0.9 sec rats. Not to mention when my 75mm T2 railgun Deimos went up against that Vaga.... Sure I lost the ship but Ohohoho it was so good in that fight. Peace is a lie, there is only BOOBIES!
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.02.16 13:08:00 - [78] can see the point, gall are meant to be blaster + drone, amarr are meant to be able to tank it. On the other hand the tradeoff with nos vs dps is massive and makes them less effective in small fleet fights. To illustrate, you bring your fleet of nosdomis and i'll bring my fleet of gankapests. By the time the drones get from the primay to the secondary you've probably lost most of your fleet. Nos boats have a role, solo / very small gang pvp. They are perhaps a little too good at this. But they're nowhere near as good as people make out, especially with the ew nerf. sgb
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.02.16 13:09:00 - [79] P.S. Perhaps a better name for this thread would be 'the myrm is too versitile, give it a more specific role'. If you want that. sgb
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:38:00 - [80] Originally by: smallgreenblur can see the point, gall are meant to be blaster + drone, amarr are meant to be able to tank it. On the other hand the tradeoff with nos vs dps is massive and makes them less effective in small fleet fights. To illustrate, you bring your fleet of nosdomis and i'll bring my fleet of gankapests. By the time the drones get from the primay to the secondary you've probably lost most of your fleet. Nos boats have a role, solo / very small gang pvp. They are perhaps a little too good at this. But they're nowhere near as good as people make out, especially with the ew nerf. sgb Excellent post! Not only have you understood my point you came back with a hypervalid counter argument that made me think. The people above are just either ignorant to reading or just jump at opertunitys where they think they can flame or suggest I have low skills (if you read up you will see that I am virtually MAXED in all thinks gallante and tanking with armor with maxed energy skills). To answer your post.... I am bothered more because I hate fleets. I like small solo/gang warfare so you can see my whine. For me that aspect of the game is broken. In a warp distruper range gate fight of a few people my fav and most comon in empire the game combat is slightly broken. But you are right in what you said thats why loads of people are not arsed. I herd a good quote "The differance between pirate and anti pirate is that pirates use guns and anti-pirates use NOS" ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:39:00 - [81] Originally by: Phoenicia Edited by: Phoenicia on 16/02/2007 13:26:38 Originally by: Tibrius Archer Any ship can be good by fitting NOS to it and smaller class guns. Yea, like that one time when I fitted my Raven with 4x small lasers and 4x large NOS. HA! I totally pwned those 0.9 sec rats. Not to mention when my 75mm T2 railgun Deimos went up against that Vaga.... Sure I lost the ship but Ohohoho it was so good in that fight. ---edit--- To put it bluntly: How is the MYRMIDON overpowered if you say ANY ship can fit an oversized module, NOS and small guns? Is it because this ship is actually moderately effective when... say... a Ferox with a cruise launcher and 4 assault launchers isn't? I had a Rax once with 2 125mm rails, 3 med NOS and a 1600mm plate. Good? Yes. Overpowered? Hell no. There would be plenty of "normal" cruiser setups out there that would kick the bejeezas out of me. An EW Cerb comes to mind. Celestis. I lost that ship in a 1v1 against a Sacriledge. Sure it took him a while to kill me, but in no way was the Sac ever in danger of me breaking his tank. If I had medium guns it may've been different. I think understanding escaped you. ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Fokus Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:48:00 - [82] Edited by: Fokus on 17/02/2007 13:52:12 Edited by: Fokus on 17/02/2007 13:44:37 The Myrmidon is my favorite ship right now. Its just awesome. Best battlecruiser in the game. I would go as far as to say it may need a nerf. Anyone using it with NOS is just..just terrible. Nos is not the way to use this ship. Neither is small guns. With my current Myrmidon setup I dont really think most battleships could break my tank before they die (my myrmidon does more DPS than my Machariel without cruise launchers).
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.17 14:02:00 - [83] Originally by: BANDID I dont get the author all the new BC are exellent ships in the right hands and with the rights skills (imo get in a tier 2 BC when having BC lvl 5 for max bonus) if not skilled enough stop whining get in a cyclone , ferox or brutix prophecy they are fine and deadly ships allso just because (i think u are unexperianced in pvp and skill wise) dont whine about ships ive seen a Myr Tank 2 BS and kill both ive seen a Hurricane do the Same (it was mine) so pls stop talking or make topics about this ship is bad or that ship is bad Every ship is good for the right purpose. And Yeah Myr is an UBER PVE/NPC ship im loving it! Train ure drones skills dude !!! T2 heavy are IMBA Glad to see you have not read a thing. Tibrius archer = Heavy drone 5 Gallante Drone spec 4 Drone interfacing 5. That means 466 Ogre 2 DPS. I am not underskilled with gallante or droneships. I will say this once more. I AM NOT UNDERSKILLED AND COMPLAINING ABOUT I CAN'T USE A SHIP. Why are people so hung up about trying to somehow suggest that I tried to use the myrm and was angry because I could not and thus decided to make a hate post. Its the kind off thing people who think I am doing this would do themselves. I am not you. All the new BC's are not equally awsome. The harbringer would be except that its main racial boosts are in laser damage and long term tanking(not so much in the harbringer I will agree) The harbringer represents the Amarr medium criuser range pulse laser carnage advantage espcially with that damage bonus. Problem is NOS (which is raped en-mass) will switch off the harbringer very quickly if it tanks or ganks. Its not like the old days where it was accepted that the Hargbringer or any amarr/Blaster gallante pilot could think: "NOSing bastards I am going to fit 6 heat sink'2s and see if they can switch me off before there floating in a pod..." Oh and don't say a harbringer can play the NOS game too as amarr never have enough CPU. And scarecly have the healthy none highslot damage that gallante droneships have. myrm with no hybrid bonus and lots of CPU is a nod to the NOS game.
Tibrius Archer hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.17 14:14:00 - [84] Originally by: smallgreenblur P.S. Perhaps a better name for this thread would be 'the myrm is too versitile, give it a more specific role'. If you want that. sgb Fair point. But I wanted to make people think about the myrm and is slot layout and bonuses and see why its a crap ship. I am trying to get across my annoyance of the Dev thinking behind the myrm design... moving away from racial ships (no 5% damage). I stand by my title. You managed to understand yourself. So have a few others. Still they are many people who I suspect are 16yrs old who feel a ship is not crap even if it overpowers core game mechanics and logic as long as they can fly it. saying there fav new ship is crap puts them into flame mode.... ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
Eva Archer	Posted - 2007.02.17 14:19:00 - [85] Originally by: Tibrius Archer Originally by: smallgreenblur P.S. Perhaps a better name for this thread would be 'the myrm is too versitile, give it a more specific role'. If you want that. sgb Fair point. But I wanted to make people think about the myrm and is slot layout and bonuses and see why its a crap ship. I am trying to get across my annoyance of the Dev thinking behind the myrm design... moving away from racial ships (no 5% damage). I stand by my title. You managed to understand yourself. So have a few others. Still they are many people who I suspect are 16yrs old who feel a ship is not crap even if it overpowers core game mechanics and logic as long as they can fly it. saying there fav new ship is crap puts them into flame mode.... Grow up big brother, forums around the world are all just like this. People with there finger on the flame/none-understanding button so stop *****ing that everyone is not playing along with your post how you wanted.
Serkis Caldari The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 14:32:00 - [86] The myrm is good! Nerf it!

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