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There is light at the end of the tunnel. A hulk.

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Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:16:00 - [151] Originally by: Sol Halcon If it's already been suggested then fine, count this as a vote. A skill that grants progrressively longer mining laser ranges for barges. Not silly ranges, but out to 30Km would be nice. Most definitely... it's very VERY high in my list (any many others' lists) of wants, and it really wouldn't have ANY effect on mining yields, so there's no possible argument against such a reasonable thing that would have any merit because it wouldn't really change anything in the area of productivity or profitability. ------------------------------------------------ Formal request for improvements to industrialism
Sheriff Badden Amarr Legion Federation Amen Anera	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:09:00 - [152] Originally by: Par'Gellen Originally by: Vivus Mors On that note, can we PLEASE get some graphical representations of just two things, cycle time, and remaining ore in an asteroid so long as the user is using an asteroid scanner. Yes. YES. OH MY GOD YES!!! /signed, my buddies could really use it Them Yellow jackets keep the tired man from slacking.
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.03.10 00:58:00 - [153] Originally by: Sheriff Badden Originally by: Par'Gellen Originally by: Vivus Mors On that note, can we PLEASE get some graphical representations of just two things, cycle time, and remaining ore in an asteroid so long as the user is using an asteroid scanner. Yes. YES. OH MY GOD YES!!! /signed, my buddies could really use it Yeah, I've been hammering away on that note for years now, not just for mining lasers but combat weapons too, and with the advent of strip miners and ice harvesters having multiple minute long cycle times, it is very easy to "loose your place" in where the beams are in their respective cycles. Even more so if you have to, or end up, cycling your beams either due to cargo space limitations (yet another thing I've been hitting the chorus on for quite a while) or simply due to sharing an asteroid with someone, to even just not wanting to waste two minutes and fifty seconds on an asteroid that was basically empty before you even started mining it. Everyone would benefit from such an improvement, players with fairly long fire times, and reload times could be represented as well with just a simple "clock" of sorts floating above their weapon buttons. We all know it can be done, most especially anyone that's played other MMO games like WOW as a prime example, where every skill/spell with a cool-down time has its own independent visual clock on top of the icon that slowly ticks by until its ready again. Which leads into the next area, if combat can have a graphical representation of how much health a player or rat has left, then I find it VERY difficult to believe that something similar couldn't be done for miners as well. The "health" of the asteroid locked onto would simply be ONE bar not three, or even just a number displaying the cubic meters of ore left (since that's what mining lasers are measured in) or even the number of units of ore left in the rock. However, while I want an "ore health bar", I don't even expect it to be free, I actually WANT to have to endeavor for this additional information (which no other lock-on requires mind you). The currently laughable asteroid scanner is among the biggest wastes of a slot in all of EVE, and it could be extremely useful by just making it provide that desired graphical representation of the ore remaining in an asteroid that you're locked onto. It would work without the silliness now, it will become useful, and miners would get what they want out of the module rather than what they are currently forced to take. Something can clearly be done in both areas, all the data is in place as we speak, players just want to be able to see it. EVE is after all a VIDEO game, so the vast majority of the information we have about the game is entirely derived from what we can see and then interpret, but if we can't see extremely important and highly useful information, that's leaving a considerable portion of the information about our activities up to guess work. ------------------------------------------------ Formal request for improvements to industrialism
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.03.11 00:31:00 - [154] I find it odd that in his own blog about invention, Oveur specifically says Originally by: Oveur This blog is to get your feedback, the opportunity to raise your concerns with Invention as the mother of all ... Invention? However when he is getting feedback from it a matter of seconds after it hit the ground up through the present, that feedback is pretty much irrelevant and they are going to go about letting the problem languish as they like and potentially make it worse before it gets any better. In that same breath, when players are giving mountains of feedback on anything else in the game (whether valid or not) that is also equally ignored, but at least for things like invention you apparently are "asking" for feedback. How about a developer chat some time? preferably with the expressed intent of NOT talking about if/when some new shiny version of something will come out, but rather when improvements of the core of the game, as well as extensions of the areas that are currently lacking, and open conversation of industry as a whole. ------------------------------------------------ Formal request for improvements to industrialism
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.03.12 18:57:00 - [155] I've updated the request document with concerns about asteroid respawn time, and size. Also, I'd like to thank all who downloaded the first draft already, we can use all the support we can get. ------------------------------------------------ UPDATED March 11 Formal request for improvements to industrialism
Cloora APEX Unlimited	Posted - 2007.03.12 19:11:00 - [156] Keep up the good work! Us industrialists/miners needs some love! ======================================== Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW!
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:35:00 - [157] Edited by: Vivus Mors on 13/03/2007 20:32:32 It seems "requests" for improvements aren't to be responded to, so perhaps they should be rephrased into pointed questions. You know, like a good "hen-pecking" from your mother. Why haven't you responded yet? When do you plan to respond? What reason is there NOT to improve the game? Nagging is like erosion, sooner or later even a mountain will succumb to its force ------------------------------------------------ UPDATED March 11 Formal request for improvements to industrialism
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:31:00 - [158] Originally by: Lord XSiV Oh you guys are no fun. CCP did give us hidden belts with exploration so at least be happy for a while. It tortures gankers who can't find you within 5 mins so at leas tthat is some repreive. I would still like a mobile refinery with GOOD refining percentages. If it comes out with a paltry 75% then it will still suck. Make sure you don't forget that part, we want a refinery with 90% plus at least :) Or even have it affected by refining skills. I hate how POS Refineries dont. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander Got Corp?
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.03.15 00:01:00 - [159] any mobile refinery is going to be a huge source of headache for balancing for a couple reasons. First, the most logical place one would ever need one is deepest darkest low sec and where ever there isn't already a refining POS or station in the area. The reason being is that in empire, free and perfect refines are easily achieved with a little mission running for a given faction/corp so they like you enough to refine free, and a handful of refining skills to top it all off. More still, if the mobile refinery has too high a refining rate, as in higher than a POS, then players wouldn't use a POS refinery thus making that obsolete and surely making some wonder why. At the same time, if it refines less efficiently than a POS, then logically, no one will use the mobile refinery when a POS can provide numerous advantages, least of which are storage, protection and a place to "run to", quite possibly cheaper to acquire and get going, and obviously superior refining rates. From here it's looking to be just a big mess the devs are making for themselves, and who knows how long it would take to clean up. ------------------------------------------------ UPDATED March 11 Formal request for improvements to industrialism
Frances Ducoir Academy of Decadence	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:19:00 - [160] Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 15/03/2007 12:24:46 Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 15/03/2007 12:24:15 in my opinion there is one problem with mining: it's boring. If mining would have more variety it would be more fun but it's plain... boring. things i would like: - RARE spawns in roids... as well as you get faction spawns when ratting there should be rare mineral spawns in roids (diamonds, rubys or whatever). make them rare and make them be the components for rigs which boost your lasers mining amount or something similar like that - mining capital ship - make some of the 0.0 ores spawn in lowsec (afaik there is mainly jaspet which has a bad risk/reward rate) - more mining vessels which are more specialised regarding the ore types - as said above, rigs for miners - DRONE mining barges which have boni for mining drones and can compete with normal barges. (and in conclusion to this maybe t2 or faction mining drones with much more than 25 ore / cycle) - if you mine in highsec or other npc regions you could find a new or rare lifeform (kind of bacteria or fungii) in ice roids, which would boost your standing to research or mining corporations if sold to them -> more variety - maybe something else which could make mining more unpredictable and fun... feel free to think of, i have stated all which came in my mind for now btw: i'am a pure pve player i have mining IV but thats all. if mining would have some of the things i stated above i would surely consider skilling a mining alt tell me what you think about these ideas. would like to read some other opinions. o/
Nimrias	Posted - 2007.03.15 21:28:00 - [161] I wholeheartedly agree that mining is broken. However, until the GMs/devs decide that it is broken, nothing will come of this. As an example, I would point to the underwhelming number of mining rigs in comparison to all the other available rigs. The reason they focus on PvP (nanos and nos) is the forum outcry. The reason they focus on t2 bpos is forum outcry (plus forming of "cartels"). How do you create this forum outcry? By forming cartels and inflating prices, of course! If you can get regional average prices of minerals to 10x or 20x of where they are now, then the forums will be flooded with "OMG WE NEED MORE MINING SKILLS AND MINING SHIPS AND MINING MODULES AND MINING RIGS OMG OMG WTF" etc... Then, and only then, will you have the changes you desire. How do you accomplish this? I have no idea. Even if every large mining corp quit selling so cheap today, you'd still have macros and new miners selling for whatever they can get. But, due to decreased mining volume, the prices may rise eventually. This is a great thread full of great ideas. Keep up the good work!!!!!!
Nimrias	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:11:00 - [162] Just a small update... I checked all the "on the drawing board", "in testing/development" threads yesterday and 0 love for the miners even being thought about. So, break out the broom and sweep this thread under the rug! A few proposed solutions that I hadn't thought of yesterday (please let me know if these are crazy): 1. Make cargo size inversely proportional to high slots/strip miners. So for the part-time/afk miners, you get a big hold with only 1 strip (better than mining in an industrial), but for the big miners, you get 3 strips so bring a hauler (you know getting into this ship that it cannot hold a full load from all 3 strips at the same time). 2. Give mining drones the ability to move ore from the barge's hold to a ganged hauler's hold (if done properly, you could eliminate jetcan with this, maybe?). 3. I would say a mining (i know i have no idea what is in the works, but i will bet all the isk i have that it ISN'T a mining ship) capship is way way way overdue, but, that would introduce more volume to the market lowering prices again. 4. Start a pirate literacy campaign...I know those fat, expensive barges look tasty, but you should resist. Why? Because miners LOVE you. Without piracy and war no one buys new ships, if ships aren't being sold they dont need to be made, so producers quit buying minerals and the mineral market goes all to hell. Don't shoot the miners , you are their fiend...err, friend!!! 5. Require all CCP employees to mine roids a minimum of one hour a day. (don't snip me! ouch!) 6. I still think mining needs more skills and rigs. Anything without the word "yield" would be great. I'm all for mining better and faster, but I'm relatively sure the limits have been placed where they are today to keep the market going. 7. Instead of jetcans , you could have an anchorable "ore-hold" that could compress the minerals you put in there or just have an incredible capacity that could be anchored within 10km of a roidbelt and will pop after a certain amount of time (maybe you could unanchor/anchor again to reset timer?). I want SOMETHING to replace the insecure jetcan, but I love that the jetcan pops. Nothing more depressing than seeing a ex-roid belt that has become a GSC belt. 8. Move all roid belts to lowsec. I know this is crazy/insane. I'm throwing this in here to make the cartel idea a reality. If it's in lowsec, you can actually "enforce" your mining/no mining policies. Call it The Morphia instead of The Mafia. In conclusion, nothing coming anytime soon. I guess I'll copy this thread and just paste it in the next thread that comes up in less than a week that discusses the same thing. Good luck to you all in your roid grinding stuggle to rise up against oppression!
Neveren Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.17 04:43:00 - [163] Given, You cannot use Direction scanner anymore to locate off Grid belts.. how about Condencing all the asteroid belts in 0.0 back into the nice empire "U" Shape, All on the grid. ? STC recruiting!
Rize Overload	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:39:00 - [164] Great post so far and some nice ideas. Lets hope we will get some attention from the DEVS.. this year lol. Indeed mining can be boring for some but others play just for it. Can be done while reading/watching a movie, chating and for the pure extra enjoyment of acomplishing something. That is getting rich or helping your corp out or funding your main w/e. Now more on the topic. Getting more cargo space on barges would be extremy apreciated. Not much.. 20-30% would be great. Having a friend in a mammoth helping you out is fun though and adds more appeal. Its a multiplayer game afterall. You shouldnt do everything by yourself! kills the fun factor. ORE only* cargo space would be great too or a better ship then the Hulk to have a further goal. Longer range on mining lasers, shorter cycle skills anything! would be apreciated at this point. Lets just hope the DEVS will listen to the comunity.
Rize Overload	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:39:00 - [165] Great post so far and some nice ideas. Lets hope we will get some attention from the DEVS.. this year lol. Indeed mining can be boring for some but others play just for it. Can be done while reading/watching a movie, chating and for the pure extra enjoyment of acomplishing something. That is getting rich or helping your corp out or funding your main w/e. Now more on the topic. Getting more cargo space on barges would be extremy apreciated. Not much.. 20-30% would be great. Having a friend in a mammoth helping you out is fun though and adds more appeal. Its a multiplayer game afterall. You shouldnt do everything by yourself! kills the fun factor. ORE only* cargo space would be great too or a better ship then the Hulk to have a further goal. Longer range on mining lasers, shorter cycle skills anything! would be apreciated at this point. Lets just hope the DEVS will listen to the comunity.
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.03.18 04:02:00 - [166] indeed, it seems we're on the long list of "ignore the problem and maybe it will just go away" CCP has pinned up. I fully understand that because there is no real "controversy" in mining (although there is TONS in the rest of industrialism) CCP sees little need to address issues of balance and improvement, but none the less it's hard not to feel slighted that on the "list of things that deserve improvement", mining and such isn't even on the list it seems. I certainly don't expect to have an entire division of CCP dedicated to the area, hardly, but merely having a developer take a look at some of the things we clearly want and in many cases need (interface improvements!), that would be a heck of a big step in the right direction for all of our benefit. ------------------------------------------------ UPDATED March 11 Formal request for improvements to industrialism
skullkeeper	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:30:00 - [167] can we have an mark on the display for what laser is active, nothing is more fustrating when your roid pops but you have to wait for the cycle to end to find out what laser is not active
skullkeeper	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:30:00 - [168] can we have an mark on the display for what laser is active, nothing is more fustrating when your roid pops but you have to wait for the cycle to end to find out what laser is not active
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2007.03.20 23:44:00 - [169] yeah, the interface is among the biggest things players want to be looked at, and I've gone into pretty good detail on this very thing in numerous requests of the devs to just help that. more still, they go on and on about how it's a PvP game, well I highly doubt you're going to find many players that wouldn't like to know how much longer they are going to take reloading or how much time is left in their firing cycle, just like miners would like to know their own cycle time. but I guess we have to wait for combat players to make the suggestion as a miraculous revolutionary idea... that people came up with over three years ago and have just been ignored all this time... ------------------------------------------------ UPDATED March 11 Formal request for improvements to industrialism
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.21 00:37:00 - [170] Someone, not me, ought to collate all the good requests here and submit a new thread. ie: >Larger Secure Cans >Better mining ships that can actually tank somewhat (sickening that a Rokh can outmine a Barge) >Adress the Lack of real skill progression >More, better Haulers >etc >etc
Vactet Immortalis Silens	Posted - 2007.05.09 11:56:00 - [171] Great ideas, really great ideas. My main is combat oriented while my 2nd account is full industry (Mining, Refining, Production). But yeh..miners need more love. Both characters are the same age roughly (2 month difference). As it stands right now..i look at my miner char and go "What..now" Answer...Mining Upgrades 5..cause nothing else. All crystal skills are at lvl4. I can fly a hulk, skiff, mackinaw and use T2 strips, T2 deep core strips, and T2 ice harvesters. I can fly a Itty 5, an occator and velator (i can NEVER spell those right). And also I can fly a Obelisk if i ever feel the need to buy one. Whats..left? T2 mining drones...ok sure, why not. After that im kinda sitting here with my thumb up my rear. I am not sure what they need to do, but there are alot of good suggestions in this thread and if they only do 10% of them, it will improve greatly. And personally, a fleet of covetors on Sisi pewpewing a gm or bumping em alot MIGHT get the point alot. Fact of the matter is that it seems that unless you hit the devs/gms over the head with a stick...they dont seem to notice. I dont know why that is...maybe they havent trained Community Awareness past level 1? Delivering the kick to the jaw of society to stop it from drooling on itself like the ignorant slop it is since 1984. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.09 12:16:00 - [172] Originally by: Alski - capital mineing ship, basicley a T3 exhumer. Please please please please please. And to get the ball rolling, I shall name it "<name> rules!" for the first three months, named after the CCP member who sells the plan for this ship to the rest of the CCP crew. -- CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.09 12:23:00 - [173] Originally by: Dread Operative It just means that all the prey will be in one belt instead of possibly in 10 Which is, the way I see it, good for the prey. One in ten chance of being the one that is ganked by you, Sir -- CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks.
Sargeant HAmmer Caldari Hammers Academy	Posted - 2007.05.09 12:52:00 - [174] run out of mining stuff hey. try moon mining!
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.09 13:08:00 - [175] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 09/05/2007 13:08:07 Originally by: Rudlls increase defence capabilities of mining ships, they are not built for combat, so build them for escape/ (+2 natural WCS, faster aligment?) the barges(exhumers) are dealt with like they are a heavy class, they are slow, cant turn crap and take forewer to warp, but unlike any other "big" ships, they are frigate thin in armor and shields (cruiser for exhumers).....do something abotu it :) Sierra India Golf November Echo Delta (yes, thats signed with added emphasis). Edit: Actually I sign most of this thread. Especially the roid health bar/cycle end on roid empty thing, and the ingenious "rare spawns in roids for random $$$ infusion / bacteria in ice field for standing increase" thing. Being able to gain standing as a miner is much needed anyway. -- CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks.
ho chiminh Gallente SlackaNova	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:21:00 - [176] As per the OP's original question-"What is a dedicated miner to do"? In North America May 15, 2007 has been declared "no gas day" to protest the ridiculous price of gasoline. Everyone is discouraged to purchase gasoline on that day which is estimated to cost the oil and gas industry about 3 Billion US dollars. I encourage you Euro brothers and sisters to join in as well and teach those *******s a world wide lesson. A similar protest may be effective in Eve. I propose that the week of June 1 to June 8 2007, be declared "no mine week". All miners agreeing not to mine for that whole week should have a noticeable impact on the market. I also propose that a corporation be formed on May 31 2007, to be called "The Mining Corp". I would ask that all miners quit their current corps and join this new corp for 1 wk only. You can always rejoin your original corp after the week is up. Any miners not in this corp on June 1 should be immediately war-decced and destroyed. This should be done in order to force the devs to deal with the issues that miners and industrialists have been pressing for some time. As PAYING players we expect our concerns to be dealt with seriously and expeditiously. At a minimum we expect devs to be involved and active in the industrial forums. I don't have the skills or desire to CEO this corp so I hereby nominate the Hulk pilot with the oldest character to accept this responsibilty and lead the industrialist revolution. As for an activity during our strike week I suggest we roam in frigate blobs and finally deal with Macroer's the way they deserve to be dealt with. That is what I believe a dedicated miner should do. I want to thank everyone who posted their thoughts and ideas in this forum. If CCP decides to ban me....well it's been a slice.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.09 22:04:00 - [177] Originally by: ho chiminh As per the OP's original question-"What is a dedicated miner to do"? In North America May 15, 2007 has been declared "no gas day" to protest the ridiculous price of gasoline. Everyone is discouraged to purchase gasoline on that day which is estimated to cost the oil and gas industry about 3 Billion US dollars. I encourage you Euro brothers and sisters to join in as well and teach those *******s a world wide lesson. A similar protest may be effective in Eve. I propose that the week of June 1 to June 8 2007, be declared "no mine week". All miners agreeing not to mine for that whole week should have a noticeable impact on the market. I also propose that a corporation be formed on May 31 2007, to be called "The Mining Corp". I would ask that all miners quit their current corps and join this new corp for 1 wk only. You can always rejoin your original corp after the week is up. Any miners not in this corp on June 1 should be immediately war-decced and destroyed. This should be done in order to force the devs to deal with the issues that miners and industrialists have been pressing for some time. As PAYING players we expect our concerns to be dealt with seriously and expeditiously. At a minimum we expect devs to be involved and active in the industrial forums. I don't have the skills or desire to CEO this corp so I hereby nominate the Hulk pilot with the oldest character to accept this responsibilty and lead the industrialist revolution. As for an activity during our strike week I suggest we roam in frigate blobs and finally deal with Macroer's the way they deserve to be dealt with. That is what I believe a dedicated miner should do. I want to thank everyone who posted their thoughts and ideas in this forum. If CCP decides to ban me....well it's been a slice. except that even if 100% of people participated all the deficit was made up within the next couple of days unless a real solution is made the big money holders DONT GIVE A --- ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Genvu Daikanta Gallente Fade To Black	Posted - 2007.05.09 22:12:00 - [178] Originally by: Vivus Mors On that note, can we PLEASE get some graphical representations of just two things, cycle time, and remaining ore in an asteroid so long as the user is using an asteroid scanner. a awsome idea please do this CCP :)
Genvu Daikanta Gallente Fade To Black	Posted - 2007.05.09 22:12:00 - [179] Originally by: Vivus Mors On that note, can we PLEASE get some graphical representations of just two things, cycle time, and remaining ore in an asteroid so long as the user is using an asteroid scanner. a awsome idea please do this CCP :)
Sarf Asgard Industries Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.05.10 20:02:00 - [180] one thing that i would kind of like is hidden rocks. I am mining a 90k velspar rock, when i pop it, there is a change ((1 - Sec level) *2%) that there be another rock inside it. So I mine the velspar rock, and there pops a omber rock that was hidden in the waste of the rock, it has 1/100 the ore the parent rock had, so I can now mine a 900 units of omber. Because the child rock is hidden by the larger, you can't mine it until the other rock pops. The chance also exists that the new rock is of a lower grade ore, so a omber rock could spawn a small veld rock. sec 1.0 = 0% chance of another rock 0.9 = 2% 0.8 = 4% 0.7 = 6% 0.6 = 8% 0.5 = 10% 0.4 = 12% 0.3 = 14% 0.2 = 16% 0.1 = 18% 0.0 = 20% Some times you get lucky, some times you don't but you won't know untill the rock pops. - Sarf CEO, Director of Freighter construction. Miner of small balls of dirt.

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